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dixiehiker
01-24-2006, 01:43
Hi! I just wanted to let you all know that there is now a petition that has been started to STOP the controversial North Shore Road from being completed in the Smoky Mountains on the N. Carolina side. As you may know, this road would cut through the largest tract of continuous virgin forest east of the Mississippi. It will also terribly affect the views and privacy of the Appalachian Trail in the area.

If you or anyone you know would like to sign this petition, please forward it to them. Also, ask them to forward it to their friends as well! Once the petition is finished, we will send it on to the planners of the North Shore Road.

The info is below! Thank you sooo much for caring about the beautiful Smokies and the AT in this area!
-Angie Smisson:sun
Georgia

To read about the petition and to sign it just visit:

http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456 (http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456)



Overview of this petition: -
The proposed North Shore Road would cut through the Great Smoky Mountains
in North Carolina, in an area that is the largest tract of continuous,
virgin woodlands east of the Mississippi. It would also cause unsightly
land scars, increased noise levels, impaired views along stretches of the
Appalachian Trail, and cause chemicals from the Anakeesta rock formations
to enter the streams during construction. This could have a deadly impact
on the vast aquatic life, including the famous Smoky Mountain Salamander
population. It would also displace numerous land mammals who call this
stand of virgin forest home.

We wish to stop this road before it is too late. If allowed to happen,
this road will forever change the face of the Great Smokies as we know
them today. We cannot afford to lose even one precious acre in this
magnificent place called, The Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

We are asking the planners of the North Shore Road project, in conjunction
with the National Park Service, to please provide monetary settlement to
the affected Swain County, North Carolina.

This road was proposed to be built as compensation to the county for
several of their roads being flooded in the early part of the 1900's
when the Fontana Dam was built.

Tha Wookie
01-24-2006, 02:26
Dixiecritter,

I think your post is great, but after hearing the BMTA spokesman Dick Evans at the SORuck, I have to advise people to comment FOR THE CASH SETTLEMENT OPTION individually. Two reasons from Mr. Evans:

1) "Petitions will be counted as one response only."

2) "A comment against an alternative does not count. It must be a preference for an alternative to count. We [the BMTA] prefer the alternative for a cash settlement to Swain County" [which would be in place of the road, and pay back the County for the money allocated out of its budget for the road].

I don't have that link to do so, and am about to hit the sack, so I hope that link will be posted by some good Samaritan by the morning.

Thanks for bringing this matter to our attention, DC.:clap

Alligator
01-24-2006, 10:30
That wasn't Dixicritter.

timhines
01-24-2006, 11:40
thanks for stirring the pot so people are reminded to do something, no matter what.

I was thinking about this on my ride to work this morning when I passed a truck with a bumpersticker stating "BUILD THE ROAD."

I think 99% of the people with those stickers don't realize the impact of the road to the county.

murphyw
01-24-2006, 11:53
I also heard the person from the BMTA speak at SoRuck, and a search on the web had me posting my preference here: http://www.northshoreroad.info/publicinvolvement.htm

--Bill

Fiddler
01-24-2006, 11:54
I think 99% of the people with those stickers don't realize the impact of the road to the county.

That road will also impact the state, as well as the nation. IMO the greatest damage will be to future generations by not allowing them to see and experience the great beauty we once had. Like a harsh word in a moment of anger that cannot be un-said, this damage once done can never be undone.

vipahman
01-24-2006, 11:56
Out here in the tri-state area, the AT crosses numerous roads. I can hear a lot of traffic. But that's to be expected because it would be impossible to have 2175 miles of trail without intersecting roads. The AT should NEVER be mistaken for a wilderness trail (some parts in Maine might be an exception). So adding another road doesn't affect me one bit.

That said, the other reasons sound valid enough against the North Shore Road. I'm also against drilling in the Artic and the concept of the Bering Strait Bridge linking Siberia to Alaska.

Fiddler
01-24-2006, 11:56
Forgot to mention - I signed the petition.

bulldog49
01-24-2006, 11:58
That area is as "virgin" as Madonna. It was logged years ago and is a second growth forest and it will have little effect on the AT.


It is, however, nothing more than a boondoggle and should not be built but at least be honest.

Sly
01-24-2006, 12:11
I signed, but as Tha Wookie mentioned, a petition only counts as 1 comment regardless of the number of signitures. I still intend on attending the public hearing in Asheville Febuary 7th and writing my local representitives.

Sly
01-24-2006, 12:32
Bulldog, maybe it's you that needs to be honest or atleast better informed. The GSMNP certainly does contain "virgin" forest and a 2 or 4 lane road would certainly impact the AT in the area.

Sly
01-24-2006, 12:40
http://www.pigeonforgeonline.com/smoky-mountain-park.html

Old Growth Forests

Saved from the huge lumber companies when the Park was established, some virgin stands of old-growth trees exist in the Great Smokies. The American Forests organization reports that the Smokies contain 21 national champion sized trees. Will Blozan, a North Carolina arborist has discovered 30 champion-sized trees throughout the southern Appalachians. The Greenbrier section of the Park is home to several beauties. For example, there's a black cherry that has a circumference of 210 inches and a northern red oak measuring 257 inches.

bulldog49
01-24-2006, 12:42
There are small "pockets" of virgin forest in the park, mostly on the other side of the crest. The GSMNP is by no means a "vast expanse of virgin forest". There is no such thing on the east coast.

I've hiked through that that part of the park, old logging roads runs run all through that area. To describe it as "Virgin" is a deliberate mischaracterization.

The reason to oppose the road are economic, not environemntal. This is a typical scare tactic the green left uses all the time and why I never believe statements from organizations the Sierra Club. They are exagerated and self-serving.

timhines
01-24-2006, 13:20
Out here in the tri-state area, the AT crosses numerous roads. I can hear a lot of traffic. But that's to be expected because it would be impossible to have 2175 miles of trail without intersecting roads. The AT should NEVER be mistaken for a wilderness trail (some parts in Maine might be an exception). So adding another road doesn't affect me one bit.

That said, the other reasons sound valid enough against the North Shore Road. I'm also against drilling in the Artic and the concept of the Bering Strait Bridge linking Siberia to Alaska.

It might not affect you, but I live within 20 minutes of where the road "starts/ends." It would effect me!

I think the road would be a glorified "shotcut." I don't think we need it economically.

Rain Man
01-24-2006, 15:48
... To describe it as "Virgin" is a deliberate mischaracterization.

... They are exagerated and self-serving.

Odd? Two sides to the same claim, in the same post!

Rain Man

.

MOWGLI
01-24-2006, 16:23
There are small "pockets" of virgin forest in the park, mostly on the other side of the crest. The GSMNP is by no means a "vast expanse of virgin forest". There is no such thing on the east coast.

I've hiked through that that part of the park, old logging roads runs run all through that area. To describe it as "Virgin" is a deliberate mischaracterization.

The reason to oppose the road are economic, not environemntal. This is a typical scare tactic the green left uses all the time and why I never believe statements from organizations the Sierra Club. They are exagerated and self-serving.

Bulldog. You are simply dead, flat-out wrong. There are over 120,000 acres of old growth forest in GSMNP. That represents almost 25% of the park. That's a fact, not a "scare tactic". While there are only a handful of groves that get mentioned because of the size of some of the trees (Albright Grove - for one), there are lots of areas where old growth doesn't jump out at you - yet it is still there.

halibut15
01-24-2006, 16:46
I'm sure this is bound to erupt just as many attacks as bulldog's post did, but I agree with what he has to say. The Smokies DO contain much old growth forest, but not one, unbroken tract expanding the length of exactly where the road would pass. As many of you know, the road would pass by or near areas of past settlement. Certainly no vast virgin forest here. I get the feeling bulldog was shooting for speaking out against the road, but was just clarifying the fact that the area is not one continuous tract of old growth timber. As he said, nowhere of that expanse exists in the east.

Secondly, has anyone thought about the statement of what "horrible impacts" the road would have on the AT? Sure more traffic would be involved on and around Fontana Dam on that relatively short section of trail, but the AT only directly impacts the proposed road at one point. Even with the road, the AT would be miles and miles away from the pavement itself, so I don't quite understand the cries of how badly the views will be disrupted. The views had from the AT in the GSMNP are all directly upslope from the proposed building area, making the road scarcely visible at all.

Lastly, I am totally against building the road. It would be an environmental disaster, breaking up one of the biggest truly unbroken ROADLESS tracts of land in the East. The wonderful wilderness experience of the Western Smokies would be irrevocably ruined, and the impacts on the AT would still be felt, especially with more people on this section as a result of easier access to interior sections of the park. The streams of region would feel a large impact, as well as Fontana Lake, from sedimentation and other factors. And to put it plainly, we simply just don't need another road.

Fiddler
01-24-2006, 16:58
Let me ask one question. Is there any real necessity for this road? Would it serve any real purpose?
(Well, 2 questions)

bulldog49
01-24-2006, 17:11
Halibut, you summed up what I was trying to say. The press release refers to "the largest tract of continous virgin woodlands in the east".

The 25% of the park that is virgin is not a continous tract but spread out. Most, and I believe the largest "tract" (Albright's Grove)" is in the northeast quadrant of the park. The proposed road will run along the north shore of Fontana Lake, an area that was once stripped of trees in the southwestern section. No "virgin" forest will be destroyed.

The whole virgin forest reference is a cynical ploy to rile people up and has no bearing on the issue.

I do however oppose the road as there is no logical purpose for constructing one.

Max Power
01-24-2006, 18:19
In reagrds to Halibut15's comment... There are many other trails besides the AT in this area that would be nearly destroyed. Pull out your map and look at how many it would go through. One of the best campsite in the area Campsite 90 on Eagle Creek, would be ruined.
This issue, as you know, is much bigger then the AT.

dixiehiker
01-24-2006, 18:19
Hi again! I'm the one who originally posted the info for the petition. Thanks so, so much to all of you who have already signed.

I just wanted to say that I do understand that the petition only counts as one response in the planning process. But, I would still like to ask all who will to sign the petition. It may only count as one response, but might it tug at the heart strings of the one who receives it? To me, one counted response that is large and loud enough can make a big difference! So, if nothing else, I am hoping that this petition will pull on the heart strings of those receiving it! I can't imagine that a petition that is big enough would not touch the planners for this road.

Secondly, I DO agree with the one who said we should all individually record our comments on the actual planning website for this road building project! PLEASE do this! The site is as follows:
www.northshoreroad.info (http://www.northshoreroad.info/)
I have also submitted a letter that in detail describes my concerns. I also plan to attend a public meeting in Gatlinburg this Feb.

Some have said that this road matters or does not. Some say it IS virgin forest. Some say it is not. I guess for me, it all comes down to loving the area of the Great Smoky Mountains. I look at the towns that outline the park...Gatlinburg, Cherokee, Pigeon Forge, and I see what they have become. They are now mere tourist mecas that are overcrowded and leave little room to breathe!!!!!! They too were once forested parts of these mountains. But, then came man and civilization! Soon, towns sprang up, and they have boomed into what they are today! Yes, they offer fun and entertainment, but they've come a LONG way from what they once were. I just don't want to arrive there one day and have a hard time telling where Gatlinburg ends and the National Park begins! I don't want to see the Smokies take the path of the towns below!

Some people can be like children in this way. A child comes to you and says, " I want a piece of candy!" You give it to them. Then, a second child comes along and says, "Well, he got a piece, I WANT ONE TOO!" Then, comes a third and fourth, and so on....! I see this happening on another scale within our parks! If this one road is allowed to be built today, it could set a dangerous precedence for future road planning in the area when new people come along with road ideas!

Also, one person mentioned the cost of the road. This is a VERY valid point! I was at the visitor center for the Smokies a year or so ago, and I asked a staff memeber why a historic building in Cades Cove was allowed to crumble (one that we had seen) rather than being preserved. Their answer was that they simply didn't have the funding. Their controbutions and funding were down, and they couldn't keep up with it all. So, if they can't afford to preserve that one, precious historic structure, HOW can they even consider a road that would take a LOAD of money to maintain?

All in all, I love the mountains. I just simply want them to be cared for and maintained for even MYSELF! I am still young, and I want a lifetime of experiences and memories in that area of the Smokies that will be special to me! I don't want to lose one precious acre of the park to an un-necessary road project! It's important to us NOW and to the FUTURE!

Thanks so much to all of you for your help on this, and please keep it going! I just checked, and at present, we had 29 signatures. I'd love to see 100 or more. I appreciate you all so much!
-dixiehiker

dixiehiker
01-24-2006, 18:21
Hi again! I'm the one who originally posted the info for the petition. Thanks so, so much to all of you who have already signed.

I just wanted to say that I do understand that the petition only counts as one response in the planning process. But, I would still like to ask all who will to sign the petition. It may only count as one response, but might it tug at the heart strings of the one who receives it? To me, one counted response that is large and loud enough can make a big difference! So, if nothing else, I am hoping that this petition will pull on the heart strings of those receiving it! I can't imagine that a petition that is big enough would not touch the planners for this road.

Secondly, I DO agree with the one who said we should all individually record our comments on the actual planning website for this road building project! PLEASE do this! The site is as follows:
www.northshoreroad.info (http://www.northshoreroad.info/)
I have also submitted a letter that in detail describes my concerns. I also plan to attend a public meeting in Gatlinburg this Feb.

Some have said that this road matters or does not. Some say it IS virgin forest. Some say it is not. I guess for me, it all comes down to loving the area of the Great Smoky Mountains. I look at the towns that outline the park...Gatlinburg, Cherokee, Pigeon Forge, and I see what they have become. They are now mere tourist mecas that are overcrowded and leave little room to breathe!!!!!! They too were once forested parts of these mountains. But, then came man and civilization! Soon, towns sprang up, and they have boomed into what they are today! Yes, they offer fun and entertainment, but they've come a LONG way from what they once were. I just don't want to arrive there one day and have a hard time telling where Gatlinburg ends and the National Park begins! I don't want to see the Smokies take the path of the towns below!

Some people can be like children in this way. A child comes to you and says, " I want a piece of candy!" You give it to them. Then, a second child comes along and says, "Well, he got a piece, I WANT ONE TOO!" Then, comes a third and fourth, and so on....! I see this happening on another scale within our parks! If this one road is allowed to be built today, it could set a dangerous precedence for future road planning in the area when new people come along with road ideas!

Also, one person mentioned the cost of the road. This is a VERY valid point! I was at the visitor center for the Smokies a year or so ago, and I asked a staff memeber why a historic building in Cades Cove was allowed to crumble (one that we had seen) rather than being preserved. Their answer was that they simply didn't have the funding. Their controbutions and funding were down, and they couldn't keep up with it all. So, if they can't afford to preserve that one, precious historic structure, HOW can they even consider a road that would take a LOAD of money to maintain?

All in all, I love the mountains. I just simply want them to be cared for and maintained for even MYSELF! I am still young, and I want a lifetime of experiences and memories in that area of the Smokies that will be special to me! I don't want to lose one precious acre of the park to an un-necessary road project! It's important to us NOW and to the FUTURE!

Thanks so much to all of you for your help on this, and please keep it going! I just checked, and at present, we had 29 signatures. I'd love to see 100 or more. I appreciate you all so much! Again, the site link to sign the petition is:
http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456 (http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456)

-dixiehiker

dixicritter
01-24-2006, 20:46
That wasn't Dixicritter.

Thank you I missed this thread... Definately not me folks. I didn't even know there was a proposal for a new road...LOL.

Nearly Normal
01-24-2006, 22:03
Pork project?
Will this road be on no-develop park property (and controlled like the BR Parkway) or will there be a special few allowed in for "the public good". (Gas, eats, recreation....)
I'm not for the project but remember that noone likes to pour water on jobs.
Many rural areas between developed communities will widen a road for traffic/safty reasons. This almost always leads to development of the rural area. Sprawl mostly leads to more and more.
Pete

dixiehiker
01-24-2006, 22:22
Hi! Yes, this road is being considered to be built within the park boundaries, protected wilderness.

Oh, and I am in no way trying to squash people's jobs! I don't think that will be the case anyway! There will always be somewhere to build a road or maintain one. I don't think NOT building this road will be a problem concerning that issue! I'm not against building roads in certain places, but there are just some places that need to be and should be protected, no matter what. So many people worked VERY tirelessly to give us the protected area known as The Great Smoky Mountains, and I dont' want to squash THEIR WORK and THEIR DREAMS.

I just want to always have a place that I can go to for peace, quiet, beauty, and escape. That is what the Smoky Mountains provide. If we develop them to the point that there is a road everywhere we turn, we will soon have NO place free from the sounds of cars, crowds, and so forth. I like to know that there is a place I can go to hear nothing but silence or a singing stream. That is what I hope to protect.

dixiehiker
01-24-2006, 22:43
Hi! I just thought you all might like to see a photo of the general area they are talking over building this North Shore Rd. It might bring the issue more to life. I took this shot a couple of years ago, and it's one of my favorites. I looked back at it the other day and realized how UNSIGHTLY my photo would be if a road were built through this breathtaking area! You can see the Smoky Mountain wildflowers with the N.Carolina mtns. in the background!

Thanks to all for letting me share my thoughts and concerns with you! I so appreciate your listening to what I have to say. It means a lot!
458
-dixiehiker

vipahman
01-25-2006, 17:23
I wrote this to them in an email:

"It is irresponsible and wasteful to be constructing this road because of commitments made in 1943, partially fulfilled by 1970 and abandoned since then. 62 years have passed and nobody misses the road. Go to the courts and find an alternative method to resolve your obligations.

Do not destroy the great National Park, World Heritage Site and International Biosphere Reserve we call the Smokies."

dixiehiker
01-25-2006, 18:01
Hi! That was a GREAT note you sent to the planners! I thought it said just what needed to be said, simply and truthfully! I don't know about you, but to me, it feels great to know that I'm taking part in a process that will hopefully save the Smokies and the AT for us all. I so appreciate your response and help! Everyone one on this site has been very kind, and I'm glad I found you guys!
-dixiehiker

dixiehiker
01-25-2006, 18:18
Hi! Just wanted to let all of you know that the petition site for the North Shore Rd. is down at the moment! I'm not sure what the problem is, but I do know that the owners of the site are VERY efficient and on the job. So, if you cannot access the site, PLEASE try again later. I know they will have it back up as fast as they can! Thanks!
-dixiehiker

handlebar
01-26-2006, 00:44
I read about 50 pages of the draft environmental impact statement. It's clear that any further "study" will be good money after bad (the bad money being what's already been spent on the road to no where). It's clear there are only two viable alternatives: 1) Pay up and honor the commitment or 2) do nothing and send the money back to the treasury. Since the politicians can't abide the latter, we're left with the former.

The road alternatives would be environmental disasters: acid drainage; noise pollution; loss of wilderness via viewshed disruption; and, eventually the Pigeon Forge nightmare on any private lands thru which it passes. The picnic area alternative is an attempt to salvage value from the "bad money" spent on the road to nowhere which fails to honor the commitments made.

I commented they should pay up or shut up (do nothing).

dixiehiker
01-27-2006, 17:49
Hi! Just wanted to let you all know that the petition to stop the construction of the North Shore Road through the Smoky Mountains is back UP! :clap We have 46 signatures at present, and I'm really, really wanting to get 100 to make a good impact statement!

If you haven't signed, PLEASE do! And, PLEASE forward this on to your friends! If this is the first time you are reading about it, basically what is happening is they are trying to decide whether to finish a road through the Smokies. Years ago, a dam was built in Swain Co., North Carolilna that covered some of the roads there. Well, a road was promised to the as compensation. It has been ongoing for years here and there...It's come up and died, come up and died. Well, here it is again. And, now, they are trying to decide once and for all WHAT to do about it.

We are asking that they provide monetary settlement to the affected Swain Co., rather than build another road through the Smokies. If built, this road would come horribly close to the AT in places and other trails....killing the privacy in spots of the wilderness. It would cause unsightly road scars and would tear through a massive continuous strand of very old forest. It would be devastating to that portion of the Smokies, which is SUPPOSED to be a protected area!

According to documents, even SWAIN CO. THEMSELVES are wanting the monetary settlement. Now, we all just have to do our part to convince the planning committe of this as well!

So, please, if you haven't already signed, visit the site below! And, thanks so much to all of you who have already signed. It means a lot! Here's the link:
http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456 (http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456)

Once finished, this petition will be sent directly to the planning committee for the road! I think that with enough names our one petition can say a LOT!

Have a happy day!
-dixiehiker

Heater
01-27-2006, 18:03
Great cause! I hope you are successful!

...but I predict a PM in your future from ATtroll about multiple postings.

:cool:

DavidNH
01-27-2006, 18:34
oh lets let dixie hiker post this as much as she wants. Its for a good cause. And we need to be sure all whiteblazers are on board!

And yes..I HAVE signed the petition!!

David

dixicritter
01-27-2006, 18:52
Posting as much as you want is one thing, but spamming the boards is another.

dixiehiker, please keep one thread that you post updates to on this subject. Everyone can read the thread no matter which forum you post it in. As a matter of fact this forum right here is perfect. Multiple threads with the exact same wording will be deleted now and multiple threads on this topic in the forums that have been posted to will be merged into one thread so no posts are lost. Thanks for understanding.

It is a very good cause! I hope things go the right way! :)

Sly
01-27-2006, 21:49
LOL... I tried to tell her! ;)

Sly
01-27-2006, 21:53
oh lets let dixie hiker post this as much as she wants. Its for a good cause. And we need to be sure all whiteblazers are on board!

And yes..I HAVE signed the petition!!

I've signed the petition too but if you want to keep reminding people or letting them know the website is back up, all it takes is one thread which everyone can see. The other "new posts" are down the list and in order to get to them you have to click on every North Shore Rd post. It ain't right...

dixiehiker
01-28-2006, 00:40
Hi! Sorry about the multiple postings! I didn't realize exactly how the forums work. I just joined a few nights ago, and it took me a while to get the idea of how the different ones work and are updated. I apologize 100 times over for being a pain. I never meant to be like a spammer! This is the first forum I've ever joined on the internet, and so I guess I'm just learning as I go. Please forgive me, and I hope everyone will give me another shot! I love this site, and I think it's such fun to check in and see what's going on! I promise not to be such a pain!
-dixiehiker

dixiehiker
01-28-2006, 01:01
Thank you all once again for signing the petition too. I hope you know I have it out there, because I just love the mountains as much as you all do. I'll have the petition running through the first of March if anyone else is interested. I appreciate you all!

-dixiehiker

http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456 (http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456)

Sly
01-28-2006, 01:13
Dixiehiker, no need to apologize. The internet takes a little getting used to. You're doing a good thing and most of us are in favor. Keep up the good work.



Hi! Sorry about the multiple postings! I didn't realize exactly how the forums work. I just joined a few nights ago, and it took me a while to get the idea of how the different ones work and are updated. I apologize 100 times over for being a pain. I never meant to be like a spammer! This is the first forum I've ever joined on the internet, and so I guess I'm just learning as I go. Please forgive me, and I hope everyone will give me another shot! I love this site, and I think it's such fun to check in and see what's going on! I promise not to be such a pain!
-dixiehiker

dixicritter
01-28-2006, 01:43
Dixiehiker, no need to apologize. The internet takes a little getting used to. You're doing a good thing and most of us are in favor. Keep up the good work.

Ditto that... I'm also sure you'll figure it all out quickly. Don't worry. :)

dixiehiker
01-28-2006, 16:41
Thank you guys for understanding! I feel sooooo much better! I was so upset when I'd seen what I'd done!!!!!!! :datz I think I have the hang of it now after studying it closely! Thank you all for being so nice! I'm thrilled I found this site! Have a GREAT weekend!
-dixiehiker:sun

dixiehiker
01-28-2006, 23:11
By the way, I have to tell you all, I'm so excited about the petition, because I just checked and we are now up to 59 signatures! The people on this site have really "stepped up" and helped the number grow FAST in just days! I hope any newcomers will sign too...the more, the merrier!!!!!!!!! I think this will really speak to the planners of this road project! Maybe we can reach that goal I have of 100 names, being that the petition will be up through the first of March! I'm keeping my fingers crossed!!!!!!:)
Talk to everyone later!
-dixiehiker

dixiehiker
01-29-2006, 21:38
Sunday, Jan. 29 ---- 61 signatures for today! Something for us ALL to be proud of! Keep em' comin'! Thanks!:clap
-dixiehiker

To read about the petition and to sign it just visit:

http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456 (http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456)

Hikerhead
01-29-2006, 22:45
You should get 7,665 names from this site..can't imagine anyone being FOR the road that's outdoor minded.

dixiehiker
01-30-2006, 00:49
I would think so too! I am VERY, VERY thankful for the ones who have cared enough to sign! They are the ones who can know they are making a difference! And, I so appreciate what you said! That is great encouragement to me! Have a happy day!
-dixiehiker

Twofiddy
01-30-2006, 00:54
I think that when you look at the very few number of people that actually have a need to use this road, it makes sense for a cash settlement to be paid to North Carolina and Swain County.

I would also be in favor of the picnic area being constructed as previously discussed in the plan.

I am not trying to rip away anyones heritage, but nearly all of the peope who were alive in 1943 that were affected by that agreement are dead now. There children, and those who are still directly affected, should be proud that they helped to make a stand against pointless federal projects.

I would be in favor of the North Shore Road becoming a footpath, or a horse path, and I do think that the ferry access to the burial grounds should be a service of the national park service. Even if it is a contracted concession, it should still be paid for by the park service.

The Fontanna Dam is rich with history in our country. It is one of the main reasons that we were able to use the resources of the southern Appalachian Mountains to win World War II and eventually win the COLD WAR.

The economy of this area would be served a good justice be learning how to promote the things that they do have and getting the private business owners to support this as well.

I think that people need to learn how to get involved with things like this as well. Appalachian Trail Hikers as a lobby, could be one hell of a huge impact on alot of things. We just have to agree to agree on some things though. I think this subject is a no brainer.

dixiehiker
01-30-2006, 01:10
Thank you so much, Twofiddy! I do think that if we all came together so, so much could be done with MANY issues that are important to these areas that we love! You are right! Thank you for EVERYTHING you said! Talking like this is what moves people to do things.

I think too that people would do more if they could just really IMAGINE things. For instance, if people could just close their eyes and imagine what a road would look like through that area of the Smokies. Imagine the noise, the traffic, the way it would take away from the untouched scenery. You could just imagine all sorts of things a road would rob us of in this area. If people could only envision what would happen, it would move them more I think.

I know that I have a photo of the general area they want to possibly put this road in. I took it a couple of years ago. It is so lovely there, and I tried to imagine a ROAD in THAT area. I just pictured how it would ruin my photo, the beauty, and the enjoyment of the mountains...not to even begin metioning the environmental destruction! So, after imagining that and seeing what the future could be, I HAD to do something....thus the petition!

I challenge everyone to simply imagine and picture what it would be like if this road went through and if other things were allowed similar to this in the wilderness areas that we love. If we could imagine what might happen...actually picture in our minds what we would see... we probably would do more. It's just that right now, when there is no road, it doesn't seem quite real to us. However, if a road is built, it will be too late and all too real.

-dixiehiker

P.S. - Here is a photo of the general area in the Smokies they are considering for the road. This is the photo I mentioned taking. I put it on here once before, but I'll share it again! Imagine a road HERE in this area, cutting through this beauty. Then, decide what you think about it all. It's up to us!
472

Sly
01-30-2006, 01:25
You should get 7,665 names from this site..can't imagine anyone being FOR the road that's outdoor minded.

I agree. With the number of people on this site alone, I can't believe she's only gotten 62 signitures. Apathy at it's worst! :o

Hikerhead
01-30-2006, 01:37
Kerosene, Hammock Hanger, DebW, Bluebearee, Phillip Jones, Uncle Wayne, Mike Croy, The Fridge.....y'all/yous guys need to sign up!!

This road will lay right on top of our beloved BMT.

dixiehiker
01-30-2006, 01:48
Thank you guys so, so much! I wish everyone could be as touched by this issue as you! I appreciate your support!:clap

MedicineMan
01-30-2006, 01:59
will the road not obliterate the newly created/designated BMT? or is it somewhere norht of that trails path?
last summer nursing heels but wanting to stay active i put in at bryson city and paddle to fontana over 3 days. i camped in GSMNP (yes i filled out a BCP) at places along the BMT, will those places be destroyed?

Sly
01-30-2006, 02:14
will the road not obliterate the newly created/designated BMT? or is it somewhere norht of that trails path?
last summer nursing heels but wanting to stay active i put in at bryson city and paddle to fontana over 3 days. i camped in GSMNP (yes i filled out a BCP) at places along the BMT, will those places be destroyed?

I think 30 miles of BMT that coincides the Lakeshore Trail and parts of other sections would be wiped out.

Hikerhead
01-30-2006, 09:03
Hey Whitedove..you need to sign this too.

Tha Wookie
01-30-2006, 09:12
I've signed it last week and was hoking to see much more by now - Maybe if say positive things about Warren Doyle this thread will take off!

Ok... um... Warren Doyle has hiked that stretch 14 times during thru-hikes! Amazing!

That's more than anyone esle on the site! What a great guy!

Who will sign it first?
:sun :D

dixiehiker
01-30-2006, 17:27
Wow, what can I say? I'm reading your posts, and all of your support keeps me feeling uplifted and having hope! I keep checking the petition each day, and every new person we get on there makes it all worth while! We can just never give up on these places we love so much! I grew up with those mountains in my life, and they've been a true constant and place of peace for me! I just can't let them be harmed, at least not without doing what I can to help, and I appreciate all of you feeling the same! Thank you, thank you, 1000x's over!!!!!!!! :)
-dixiehiker

***63 signatures so far --- January 30 ---


To read about the petition and to sign it just visit:

http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456 (http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456)

MedicineMan
01-30-2006, 23:59
but i think that GSMNP may possibly want to build a big beautiful visitor center mid way on the lakeshore road with a HUGE lodge where rooms rent for $300-400 nightly....i cant help but think that they might be profit motivated by this thing too, maybe subterfuge?

Hikerhead
01-31-2006, 00:07
Maybe so. I also bet there's a slick politician holding onto some land along the road from Bryson City. That would be interesting to see what land ownership the kingplayers in this whole mess hold.

dixiehiker
01-31-2006, 20:18
How sad it would be if some of that were true...to lose such beautiful, priceless land to politics and profit! They can't even compare! I do believe for certain there are a lot of politics weighing in on this. That's why our voice is so important. We have to make them see that it's in their best interests to go with the majority of the people on this, and leave those mtns. alone!
-dixiehiker

MedicineMan
01-31-2006, 22:40
is the BMT a National Scenic Trail designated by Congress? if so would seem that it is protected and they'll just have to pay the money....Mowgli probably has connections in Washington/Senators/etc for this sort of thing????

Hikerhead
01-31-2006, 22:56
is the BMT a National Scenic Trail designated by Congress?

Happy Feet should be able to answer this.

dixiehiker
02-01-2006, 00:56
I'm not personally sure about the details on the BMT, except that I've been told this North Shore Road would indeed go through part of that area.
-dixiehiker

Hikerhead
02-01-2006, 01:09
I haven't hiked this part of the BMT yet, hopefully I will in another year or two. But my understanding is what is now called The Road To Nowhere is a paved road from Bryson City ending at the tunnel at or just inside the GSMNP. Continuing beyond the tunnel it's an old dirt road. the North Shore Trail, that is also the BMT. I'll see if I can post a link to a great map of the GSMNP that shows this.

Here's the link. CLick on Trail Map. I can't get it to open so there might be something wrong with it.

http://www.nps.gov/grsm/pphtml/maps.html

MedicineMan
02-01-2006, 01:09
surely some one on WB knows of an expert in bugs or salamanders/ etc....dont laugh but major building projects have been halted by endangered animals.....or maybe someone knows some Cherokee that are not in favor of the road and low and behold surprise surprise surprise an old burial ground is discovered....just throwing thoughts out onto the table.

Hikerhead
02-01-2006, 01:41
I haven't hiked this part of the BMT yet, hopefully I will in another year or two. But my understanding is what is now called The Road To Nowhere is a paved road from Bryson City ending at the tunnel at or just inside the GSMNP. Continuing beyond the tunnel it's an old dirt road. the North Shore Trail, that is also the BMT. I'll see if I can post a link to a great map of the GSMNP that shows this.

Here's the link. CLick on Trail Map. I can't get it to open so there might be something wrong with it.

http://www.nps.gov/grsm/pphtml/maps.html

That should be Lakeshore Trail, not North Shore Trail.

calearn
02-01-2006, 14:22
I've signed it last week and was hoping to see much more by now - Maybe if say positive things about Warren Doyle this thread will take off!

Ok... um... Warren Doyle has hiked that stretch 14 times during thru-hikes! Amazing!

That's more than anyone esle on the site! What a great guy!

Who will sign it first?
:sun :D
Good one Wookie, but Dogs now seems to be a hotter topic right now. Maybe mention how many non-trail trained dogs would now be in an area where Dogs weren't previously found??? :sun :D
http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456 (http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456)

dixicritter
02-01-2006, 22:50
I'm trying to sign the petition.... how long does it usually take to get the verification email??:confused:

dixicritter
02-01-2006, 23:05
Nevermind I got it now, and have signed!

dixiehiker
02-02-2006, 01:08
Just wanted you ALL to know today too that there are exactly 70 signatures! I was excited at that, because my original hopes were for 100 signatures! We are ONLY 30 away now! So, maybe we will see that happen! I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I just think that 100 would be a good, strong number to shoot for! It's Feb. 1st, and I'll have the petition running through March 5th. After that, I'll send it to the planners, which will give me time to get it to them before their comments deadline of March 20th. So, the next few weeks will really count!

And, as far as MedicineMan mentioning the wildlife in the area that might be harmed...I DO HOPE the planners are considering that as well! I have read reports that Anakeesta rock that would be cut in the area of the road would probably pollute streams, affecting especially the aquatic life. So, yes, I DO hope they are thinking of that as well. I care about the animals as much as I do the forest. They are all intertwined with one another and depend on one another! So, we are really fighting here for both the forest and the safety of the native wildlife! Thanks for bringing that up, MedicineMan!:clap

-dixiehiker:)

Hikerhead
02-02-2006, 01:30
One of the reasons given by the locals is that they want this road bulit so that they can go visit family graveyards. This is all good and I can understand that. But, the forest service has made available to them a boat that will take them across the lake. If this was me and my family graveyard was on the other side of the lake, I would think the boat ride across would be kinda nice. When you got on the other side it would nice and quite. If this road is built, you would have every tom dick and harry driving by while you're spending some quite time with past loved ones.

Which way would you prefer to get there???

dixiehiker
02-02-2006, 01:37
I agree with you, Hikerhead. A good example of what you are saying is in Cades Cove. With all the traffic through there, the grave sites are always crowded with people. A family member of a Cades Cove resident can rarely expect privacy. That could happen to the North Shore area as well.
-dixiehiker

Nearly Normal
02-02-2006, 02:30
How do the locals in the area feel about this new road. I realize they may get a little money if the project is shelved but that may not be enough.

A senic drive through the area would benefit both ends. With only one road through the park now, heavily used, those in the area may want another to relieve pressure and capture a little more tourist money. You can bet if it's built it'll be promoted as a good thing and to people that never walk more than 50 feet from their car. Joe hiker here is in the minority.

I agree from afar that the road adds to the problems everyone here is concerned about and personally don't want to see it built. But....
I don't live there. The local concern may not see it the same way.
The guy selling blackberry milkshakes on skyline drive won't agree with you.

This post doesn't require another long list of reasons why it shouldn't be built. There's plenty of that posted.

Will the ATC be attending or leading a protest at public meetings on the subject? Will members be writing letters to their respective congress?
Will media mediums be on board to inform or should I say form public opinion?

In the end, unless national public opinion can be swayed then it's "follow the money".
Perhaps the only way these pork projects can be brought under control is to pass a line item veto.

Pete

Lone Wolf
02-02-2006, 07:55
I hope they build the road so they can get oil well drilling equipment in there.

sourwood
02-02-2006, 07:59
The people of Swain County are divided on this issue. There is a citizen's group, Concerned Citizens of Swain County, who formed for the express purpose of opposing the road and pushing for the cash settlement. The commissioners of Swain County passed a resolution supporting the cash settlement. There are also many vocal supporters of the road.

There is a coalition of environmental groups leading a campaign opposing the road. I have heard that there should be a strong media presence at the meeting today in Swain County including some national media. The current round of meetings will allow for public comment, 3 minutes per person. If you live near Bryson City, attending today's meeting would be a great thing to do. Or attend one of the other meetings scheduled:
February 2, 4:30-8 p.m., Swain County High School, Center for the Arts, Auditorium, 1415 Fontana Road, Bryson City, NC;
February 6, 4:30-8 p.m., Robbinsville High School Auditorium, 30 Sweetwater Road, Robbinsville, NC;
February 7, 4:30-8 p.m., Asheville Renaissance Hotel, One Thomas Wolfe Plaza, Asheville, NC;
February 9, 4:30-8 p.m., Knoxville Marriott, 500 Hill Avenue, SE., Knoxville, TN;
February 13, 4:30-8 p.m., Gatlinburg-Pittman High School Auditorium, 150 Proffitt Road, Gatlinburg, TN.

Public written comments are due March 20th. My gut feeling is this will be a political decision so sending a copy of your comments to your elected officials in DC would be a wise move. If you have strong feelings about this, take the time to attend a meeting or send in your written comments.

dixiehiker
02-03-2006, 00:59
I agree with sourwood. PLEASE DO send in your comments on this road to the planners, along with the petition signing. If you can attend the meetings, that is great too! Anything we can do will help.

As far as pete56, I personally do not agree with the scenic road idea (the road would kill a good portion of that scenery to start with) or capturing more tourist dollars for the benefit of a few locals. I personally know several people in the Smokies area. One family is the Oakley's. Mr. Oakley is the son of Wiley Oakley who was known as "The Roamin' Man of the Mountains". I also know a couple of Ogle's. They have generations of history in the Smokies region. I can tell you that they are 100% against this road. The majority of the people in that area LOVE those mountains, and although some may want the road, I believe the larger majority do not want it. I've even read documents from Swain Co. stating that they too would rather the monetary settlement. And, as far as those who never walk 50 feet from their cars, that's their own fault. People today, outside of the elderly and handicapped, (I can understand them totally) are lazy. It would do them GOOD to get out and walk beyond their cars and get in touch with nature again. We should not have to watch the demolition of one of the most beautiful parks there is just because people want to make an extra buck or because people would rather drive than walk a little! Making a profit is not all there is to life. There are some things even more priceless than money.

It's just that if we add roads to the Smokies, before long, you won't know the difference of when Gatlinburg or Cherokee ends and the Smokies begin! I never want that to happen.

I know that people will differ from me on this issue, and that's okay. That's what this country is all about...your freedom to decide. I appreciate all of your comments, and I hope everyone knows that I have started this petition because I just have such a love for those mountains!:)

Have a great day!
-dixiehiker

To read about the petition and to sign it just visit:

http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456 (http://www.petitionthem.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=2456)

Nearly Normal
02-03-2006, 04:02
As far as Dixiehiker,
What part of "personally don't want to see it built" don't you get.:-?

Will you continue to repeat yourself over and over?
Did you actually read my last post?
Do you only "hear" what pleases you?

It seems I ask a few questions you don't want to deal with. Get used to it. Before this issue is over many more will be ask.
When other points of interest or the devil's advocate view is expressed many only see the trees, not the forest.
Don't be one of them.
Stick to your guns, not your head in the sand.

Most politicians could care less what you think unless they get paid. They promise everything and deliver little or nothing.
Just because........ ain't gonna cut it.
The only thing I've found they do understand is votes. Threaten that and you'll start seeing results.
I expect the SUV driving, 50 foot hikers are presently a solid voting block, a safe political bet. I've been there in the fall peak season in bumper to bumper traffic and seen all the folks with money to spend.
That's what Representative/Congressman clueless sees more than anything.
Like everything in today's world, it's a marketing thing.
Follow the Money!

One last thing.
Dixiehiker, people like you are needed to keep the wheel squeaking when it needs a shot of grease.
Thank you!

* Heritage, Preservation, Patrimony!

Pete56

(*) Hint

Kozmic Zian
02-03-2006, 10:18
Yea....Road!

NO!

dixiehiker
02-04-2006, 02:17
Pete 56,
I must say that I don't appreciate your "personal attack note". I was in no way rude in my response to you. I only stated my thoughts back on the thoughts you presented. And, yes, I dealt with your questions by the answers that I have knowledge of. I HAVE spoken with several of the locals to know many don't want a road built. And, I understand you were stating what the locals might think on making a profit or of people who do not leave their cars in the mtns. I was stating back to you "my take" on that situation. And, YES, I have the right to repeat my position due to the fact that this is a thread topic I began. You have the same right. However, if you don't like what I'm saying, you are not forced to read this post! You also have a right to express your opinion, thoughts, or "devil's advocate" views as well, but you do not have a right to treat other people rudely. No one deserves that. I don't expect everyone to agree with me or to go along with all that I believe, but I do expect to be treated respectfully, as you deserve the same yourself. THAT is what I have a problem with, not your taking a look at the other side. Your response back to me was vicious and mean hearted in the way it was worded. You don't know me to judge me with such words. I totally got that you said you didn't want to personally see the road built, (that is why I said I did not agree with the "idea", NOT speaking of YOU yourself) but at the same time, I have just as much right to post back to what you presented, as you have as much right to bring up the other side. I should have that right without having to return the next day only to see a cruel response. That's not what anyone is after here, and it is cruel to treat another person in that manner.
-dixiehiker

KirkMcquest
02-04-2006, 03:07
I think we all understand that some locals may want the road.

Local's generally want whatever put's ( or might put) money in their pocket. Often, local people who grow up seeing spectacular views and unbroken woodland, don't appreciate it. But that doesn't matter, it's everybodies world. We have as much right to oppose the road as they have of not wanting it. I'll sign the petition because I'm sick of money hungry local's ruining the world for the rest of us.

KirkMcquest
02-04-2006, 03:08
rather to oppose the road as they have of WANTING it.

Nearly Normal
02-04-2006, 04:03
Dixiehiker,
My post on this subject was certainly not an attack on you but Again I will state there are questions. I had hoped you would see it as objective.
I'm sorry if you read it that way or if it comes accross that way.
Yes, you do have the right to keep posting the same thing over again. I just don't think think it's necessary here.

No one else on this thread has said much other than to agree with you. No surprise, it's the choir.
Heck, I agree with you.

A straight down the line check list of "I agree" might please you personally but won't get you very far outside this forum. Only a start.

The next time you talk with your friends that live in that area ask them how many people were against the building of the dam, and what good it did them. Or what resources were available to them at the time to protest.

I had hoped, and my intention was, that a broader audience than WB might help get your message to produce fruit.

Perhaps in my zeal to communicate this to you I was wrong to think you would take it as constructive. Perhaps thinking outside the box was a mistake.

Please accept my apology,
Pete

"endeavor to persevere"

dixiehiker
02-04-2006, 04:25
:) Dear Pete,
I too apologize very much for anything wrong or rude I may have said. I don't want that at all. That's not my desire, and I'm certainly not a confrontational person! I hate having words with people! So, please accept my apology as well! I like all of the people I've communicated with here at WB, and I think this is a great site. I don't want to cause disruption between myself and any member due to saying something that I should not say! So, please know that I apologize for any upset I may have caused you. Thank you for your thoughts and for giving me another side to look at! I appreciate it. Thank you lots and lots! Have a great weekend!:)
-dixiehiker

dixiehiker
02-05-2006, 03:59
Just a note to keep you all updated....as of today, 02/05/06, we have 74 wonderful signatures! Thank you everyone! I'll keep you updated through the rest of the month on the signatures we get! Maybe we will reach 100 yet!!!!! If you have any questions or thoughts, let me know! Have a nice Sunday, everyone!
-dixiehiker

Hikerhead
02-09-2006, 22:09
If you think a new road in the Smokies is a bad idea, consider signing this petition. If it's built, it's there forever. Give the county the money that's been offered. Better yet, give them more money.

Happy Feet.....What's your feelings on this. Dumb question I know.

Hikerhead
02-28-2006, 01:20
There was a meeting on 2-21 concerning this road. Did anyone attend and could you comment on what went on?

Rockjock
02-28-2006, 10:32
No I did not attend the Feb 21 meeting at Sugarlands but if it was anything like the one held on Feb 9 in Knoxville there WILL be a BOONDOGGLE road built in the Smokies. I would easily say that proponants of the construction of the USELESS road outnumbered those who support any other alternative 5 to 1. That is probably conservative.

There is still time to do something!! Signing a petition, although a valid method, will only count as 1 comment please take the time to draft a letter of support for the monetary alternative. Each letter commenting in SUPPORT of an alternative will be counted as 1 comment. The DEIS is available at www.northshoreroad.info (http://www.northshoreroad.info/)

Send your comments electronically (through the above website) or snail mail to:
North Shore Road Project
Great Smoky Mountains National Park
P.O. Box 30185
Raleigh, NC 27622


Please send a copy of your letter or e-mail to your Congressman and Senators. Regular mail copies should be sent to the local office and not the Washington DC <ST1:poffice.
There are many organizations (Harvey Broome Sierra Club chapter, TN Citizens for Wilderness Planning, Western NC Sierra Club) that have succinctly summarized the DEIS if you feel that there is no way you can possible read through the entire document.

Rock

Sly
02-28-2006, 11:53
I would easily say that proponants of the construction of the USELESS road outnumbered those who support any other alternative 5 to 1. That is probably conservative.

That's utterly amazing, but not surprising considering today's polictical climate.

dixiehiker
03-02-2006, 01:24
Hi guys! Just wanted to tell you there are 80 signatures on the petition! We have til March 5th for anyone else who would like to sign still! I apprecaite all your help on this!

We just got back from the Smokies a couple of weeks ago! We were there during the big snowfall. It was around 5 inches in Gatlinburg, 8 at the Sugarlands Visitor Center and 41 inches reported by the rangers on LeConte! It was quite a sight to see! We saw snow for three days, which thrilled us, since we rarely see snow at home! We had a ball! Just wanted to tell you all about it!

Have a GREAT day!
-DixieHiker
www.petitionthem.com (http://www.petitionthem.com) - you can find the petition here! Just type in "Smokies" on the search, and it will bring it up!

Newb
03-02-2006, 08:59
If this road were simply about access to a graveyard they could just build a single lane loop.

dixiehiker
03-03-2006, 01:41
Hi, everyone! We have 99 signatures on the petition! :banana THANKS! Is there ONE more person out there who is willing to sign? It would be GREAT to get my goal fulfilled of 100 before the petition ends on March 5th! That's a nice number to send in!

I appreciate you ALL, every thought, every comment... I'll have this petition off to the project planners as soon as it ends on the 5th!

-dixiehiker

dixiehiker
03-07-2006, 21:59
I just want to say a big, THANK YOU to everyone who signed and helped with the petition! It finished with 104 signatures! HOORAY! I appreciate it so much, and I'll have it on the way to the planners in the next day or so! Let's all keep our fingers crossed! Have a GREAT day, and thanks again!
-dixiehiker:)

weary
03-07-2006, 22:12
If this road were simply about access to a graveyard they could just build a single lane loop.
Whatever. Just sign the petition. It won't hurt. I most probably will help.

Weary

MOWGLI
03-10-2006, 20:32
Here's a trip report from my hike of the area from last last week. There are 4 entries in total.

http://americanhiking.chattablogs.com/