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Moxie00
01-24-2006, 20:19
:rolleyes: Do you know something about the trail or even a trail story that might intrest your fellow Whiteblazers. For example, I was supprised to be told the hikers shower at Fontana Dam was the "colored only" restroom before integration ended the need for it and the government didn't know what else to do with it.

Lone Wolf
01-24-2006, 20:23
:rolleyes: Do you know something about the trail or even a trail story that might intrest your fellow Whiteblazers. For example, I was supprised to be told the hikers shower at Fontana Dam was the "colored only" restroom before integration ended the need for it and the government didn't know what else to do with it.
I was also surprised that the showers are solar powered when they have a jagillion watts of power RIGHT THERE.

Ridge
01-24-2006, 20:24
Did you know that the NOBO 8+ mile approach trail was actually a part of the original AT when its terminus was at Mt Oglethorpe. Did you know the trail use to begin at Mt Oglethorpe? Lots of trivia out there about the AT and its more famous hikers like Earl Shaffer. I could tell you a ton of stuff like this if you really wanted to know.

MOWGLI
01-24-2006, 20:41
Do you know something about the trail or even a trail story that might intrest your fellow Whiteblazers.

I've got three.

"Many Sleeps" who was an NPS volunteer for several years at Fontana Dam (including 2000) walked South Carolina's 76-mile Foothills Trail in 3 days while in his early 70s.

Peregrine Falcons nest on the Bear Mountain Bridge. In fact, they nest on every bridge spanning the Hudson River from the Verrazano Narrows to Albany, NY.

Jack Tarlin is really a woman, Ann Coulter is really a man, and they've been having a torrid affair for several years now - right under our noses.

Jack Tarlin
01-24-2006, 20:45
Damn, Mowgli, that is positively, absolutely, no-way-about-it, the LAST time I ever tell you anything! :)

mweinstone
01-24-2006, 21:37
a long dead best friend of mine once shot an arrow straight up with a crossbow into a tree limb at pocohanntas spring above port clinton.he put a special payload wrapped in foil and seran wrap in the space behind the tail feathers of the arrow and said it was for the future like a time capsule. this was in 1978 and i can still find the shaft if i sit on the charcol hearth and look up into the biggest tree in the wintertime.

Nean
01-24-2006, 21:50
Nice story, thanks for sharing

wyclif
01-24-2006, 22:47
I've always thought the Grandma Gatewood story is the best, hands-down.

neo
01-24-2006, 23:05
Damn, Mowgli, that is positively, absolutely, no-way-about-it, the LAST time I ever tell you anything! :)

and jack has even admited to deep rooted sexual fantasies about hillary clinton:cool: neo

Mouse
01-24-2006, 23:40
Go to Glastenbury Peak in Vermont and in a small clearing near the base of the fire tower you will find a small circle of standing stones around a little altar stone.

It is a monument in memory of my pet cockatiel Erma. The year before I did my thuhike I wrote an online story in which Erma hiked the Appalachian Trail, doing daily segments just like a hiking journal. The real Erma flew away before I finished, so in the story she finished then went off to Avalon (From the book "The Mists of Avalon"). Glastenbury Peak is named after the legenday site of King Arthur's grave and so is associated with Avalon so I made a cockatiel-sized standing stone circle for her like the one in the book.

Papa Razzi
01-25-2006, 00:25
Right after the bridge at Abol Bridge, you can see three birdhouses on a tree near the general store. They were placed there by Woodchuck, the same fellow who made the halfway marker.

Hikerhead
01-25-2006, 00:43
He also made this one....in between Trout Creek and The Audie Murphy monument. I just went by there 2 weeks ago and forgot to look for it again.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=1039&catid=member&imageuser=132

TJ aka Teej
01-25-2006, 10:12
In the early days the AT in Maine led hikers to several lake shore docks where they would need to get a boat ride across the lake to pick up the trail again on the other side. The AT was routed to Caratunk to take advantage of existing boat traffic across the Kennebec serving the sporting camp clients who would arrive by train. Before Abol Bridge and the Golden Road were built AT hikers crossed the West Branch on a cable bridge that was about a mile north of where the Abol Store is now. The Abol Bridge Campground is traditionally remembered as the Indian camp where early treks up Katahdin began, including Charlie Turner's 1804 first ascent and Thoreau's climb.

Doctari
01-25-2006, 10:52
There is a "emergency generator" for the Fontana dam visitors center. Kind of makes you wonder.

Doctari.

snowhoe
01-25-2006, 11:05
The only story I know was told to me by a friend whos uncles wife told him, who was told to her by his great grand cousin. That back in 19ot03 that in northern Georgia they were having trouble with bears and wild boars "gang up" and killing settlers and indians potato crops. That the savage beasts would start gathering around day break and pillage little villages and small towns. There was nothing that people could do. They were just helpless as the animals would go crazy when they smelled the potato pancakes that the people were cooking. I have heard a couple people saying that they have heard some strange noises coming from the woods when they have made instant potatoes.

halibut15
01-25-2006, 21:48
The only story I know was told to me by a friend whos uncles wife told him, who was told to her by his great grand cousin. That back in 19ot03 that in northern Georgia they were having trouble with bears and wild boars "gang up" and killing settlers and indians potato crops. That the savage beasts would start gathering around day break and pillage little villages and small towns. There was nothing that people could do. They were just helpless as the animals would go crazy when they smelled the potato pancakes that the people were cooking. I have heard a couple people saying that they have heard some strange noises coming from the woods when they have made instant potatoes.

Gotta watch them thar bears and hawgs up here in north GA. It's rough living up here, you know.

max patch
01-25-2006, 22:21
Did you know that the NOBO 8+ mile approach trail was actually a part of the original AT when its terminus was at Mt Oglethorpe. Did you know the trail use to begin at Mt Oglethorpe? Lots of trivia out there about the AT and its more famous hikers like Earl Shaffer. I could tell you a ton of stuff like this if you really wanted to know.

Not entirely correct. MOST of the approach trail used to be part of the original AT, however, there have several relos of the approach trail since the start of the AT was moved from Oglethorpe to Springer. Impact of the relos has been to make the portion of trail from Amicalola to Springer much easier.

Ridge
01-25-2006, 22:42
Not entirely correct. MOST of the approach trail used to be part of the original AT, however, there have several relos of the approach trail since the start of the AT was moved from Oglethorpe to Springer. Impact of the relos has been to make the portion of trail from Amicalola to Springer much easier.

I realize the AT changes mileage almost on a daily basis due to relocations and to have been politically correct I should have stated, "save for some relocations after the terminus relocation".

Wonder
01-26-2006, 17:30
I don't know if I have all of the facts stright, but I heard that an West Chester University music Education graduate( Tuba) fell of Bake Oven knob, and that the only thing that saved him was the contra tuba he had strapped to the top of his pack! Maybe I should bring my Marimba!

RITBlake
01-26-2006, 18:09
[quote=TJ aka Teej]In the early days the AT in Maine led hikers to several lake shore docks where they would need to get a boat ride across the lake to pick up the trail again on the other side. [\quote]

REALLY?? That is wild. I wonder how many purists tried to swim across because taking a boat ride would be 'cheating'

CaptChaos
01-26-2006, 21:25
I don't know of old stories but I was very surprised when we were backpacking several years ago from New Found Gap to Cades Cove the shelter going west right before you go over Thunderhead Mtn and Rocky Top we saw a young ranger who was hunting hogs with a 12 gage shotgun.

We were talking about the trail and we asked if any planes ever go down in the park. To my surprise he told me that about 1 to 2 miles back there was a Cessna in the top of the trees and has been there for years. The park service drains the oil and gas out and sometimes leave the plane.

He said that it was very close to the trail. I guess in the future I need to look up instead of always looking at the trail and maybe I would have seen it.

There are many planes missing in the Smokies that have never been found so who knows.

mweinstone
01-29-2006, 15:54
Wheres That Plane In Pa Thats Crashed Within Sight Of The Trail? Any Body Remember?ive Seen It A Couple Times Over The Years.

Mouse
01-29-2006, 18:25
The closest I have seen to a plane crash on the trail was at Elk Garden Gap just south of Mount Rogers.

I was climbing out of the gap when I heard a loud roar behind me. I turned just in time to see a big 4-engine C-130 cargo plane shoot through the gap just above the ground, flying SIDEWAYS! :eek: It was well below the treetops to either side of the gap. It gracefully straightened up, then dove headlong into the valley beyond. Talk about a sight!

Kerosene
01-29-2006, 20:13
A pair of F-18s (or a similar large fighter-bomber) streaked across the ridgeline when my brother and I were walking in Shenendoah National Park north of Pinefield Hut in September 1986. We didn't hear them until they were almost on top of us.

A large military chopper buzzed me in Georgia in early April 2004.

MedicineMan
01-30-2006, 02:20
and I think Attroll should seriously think about it being a book 'The unknown AT' from this point forward, talk about a way to pay for bandwith! of course it should be no problem finding pics for the book at WB either :)

i'll add one:
when hiking in the Laurel Fork area you will notice large unatural cuts in the rock and you will notice the long flat stretch as you approach Dennis Cove if NoBo..if you dig into the ground in these areas you will find bits of coal....and at one time the cut just before you drop to the first bridge (again from Dennis Cove toward Hampton, or NoBo) there used to be a bridge spanning Laurel Fork Creek to the next cut over. Years a ago a narrow guage train with vertical pistons (versus the more common at the time horizontal pistons) traversed this area hauling out logs....so this area of the AT may be one of the first rails to trails programs in USA history :)

Mouse
01-30-2006, 09:10
Another Trails to rail section is a narrow gauge railway bed in New York between Graymoor Friary and the Shenandoah tenting area. It features both cuts and high masonry embankments like stone walls on steroids.

Moxie00
01-30-2006, 11:35
Thoreau never made it to Thoreau Spring. He turned back just after the timberline when he attempted to climb Katahdin. On the subject of narrow guage trains, one crossed the trail near Rangely and another near Oberton Stream between Saddleback and Spaulding. Today the areas are total wilderness. Most of the AT in Maine was laid out by one man, Walter Green.

Peaks
01-30-2006, 18:55
Thoreau never made it to Thoreau Spring. He turned back just after the timberline when he attempted to climb Katahdin. On the subject of narrow guage trains, one crossed the trail near Rangely and another near Oberton Stream between Saddleback and Spaulding. Today the areas are total wilderness. Most of the AT in Maine was laid out by one man, Walter Green.

I think that the Maine AT guide says that the AT crosses 4 abandoned narrow guage rail beds in Maine. The steam engines from the Maine narrow gauge lines are still in use at Edaville in Mass and Portland Maine.

Most of the logging rail roads in the White Mountains (like between Zealand and Ethan Pond) were standard guage.

RITBlake
01-30-2006, 23:22
In connecticut a mile or two nobo after Belters campsite there was a detour. We actually missed the detour and kept hiking on the old AT. Much to our suprise we came across a derailed train. It was really incredible! I think I remember hearing something about this a while ago but I was suprsied to see the train still there. There were at least 3 cars and they still had full loads (lumber) It was amazing to see the steel twisted 360 degrees.

The Will
01-31-2006, 14:48
Moxie00,

This has really been a tremendous thread. Kudos to you for originality!

Kerosene
03-09-2006, 21:37
On my first AT section hike in April 1973, the Trail headed north from Blairstown Road in New Jersey. A mile or two before entering Stokes State Forest, the trail was routed onto a paved road. A hundred yards later it entered a housing development. No one was in sight, there were no cars around...everything was quiet. The houses looked fairly new, except we soon noticed that every one of them had a big hole in at least one of the walls.

I think my first thoughts strayed to nuclear war or something similar. It was very weird. Perhaps a half-mile later we ran into a solitary person who informed us that the houses were being left to "return to nature" by the state conservation agency. I never did figure out what had really happened there.

weary
03-09-2006, 22:45
I've always thought the Grandma Gatewood story is the best, hands-down.
Earl Shaffer thought she was a bum.

Tin Man
03-10-2006, 00:42
Earl Shaffer thought she was a bum.

Weary, Care to elaborate on that one?

Tin Man
03-10-2006, 00:53
A pair of F-18s (or a similar large fighter-bomber) streaked across the ridgeline when my brother and I were walking in Shenendoah National Park north of Pinefield Hut in September 1986. We didn't hear them until they were almost on top of us.

A large military chopper buzzed me in Georgia in early April 2004.

I was sitting on the crapper with the door open on top of Glastenbury when I got buzzed by some low flying fighters. Scared the crap out of me, which was really awesome timing.

No Belay
03-10-2006, 00:59
[quote=TJ aka Teej]In the early days the AT in Maine led hikers to several lake shore docks where they would need to get a boat ride across the lake to pick up the trail again on the other side. [\quote]

REALLY?? That is wild. I wonder how many purists tried to swim across because taking a boat ride would be 'cheating'

Just One .

bfitz
03-10-2006, 01:08
I was sitting on the crapper with the door open on top of Glastenbury when I got buzzed by some low flying fighters. Scared the crap out of me, which was really awesome timing............:D

AbeHikes
03-10-2006, 08:23
I read somewhere that Springer Mountain used to be named Penitentiary Mountain. I think it was in Hiking Trails of North Georgia, 3rd ed. by Tim Homan.

weary
03-10-2006, 08:34
Weary, Care to elaborate on that one?
Well, that's what Earl Shaffer said about Gatewood during the several hours that I chatted with him on several occasions after his '98 trip. He was offended that she would knock on doors and ask for food and a bed while hiking.

Earl lived in what most of us would consider poverty conditions most of his life, but he was very independent and proud.

It was the Cabin in Maine that got him to Katahdin in '98 after he was prepared to quit. and he came back a couple of times thereafter to thank them. Also I talked with him at the only PA Ruck that I attended a few months before Earl's death.

Among the early thru hiking pioneers, Earl seemed to most like Dorothy Laker(?)

Weary

Sleepy the Arab
03-10-2006, 14:19
Among the early thru hiking pioneers, Earl seemed to most like Dorothy Laker(?)

Anyone interested in reading about Dorothy Laker would do well to pick up the out of print Hiking the Appalachian Trail by James Hare. My memory is a little fuzzy, but I believe one of her accounts in the book includes her meeting with Earl Schaffer.

Actually, that book is worth picking up anyway, for the countless narratives of early thru-hikers and their hikes. Best $100 bucks I ever spent.

RockyTrail
03-10-2006, 14:59
I read somewhere that Springer Mountain used to be named Penitentiary Mountain. I think it was in Hiking Trails of North Georgia, 3rd ed. by Tim Homan.

It could well be true. As you approach Springer from the south on FS77, just before it intersects FS42 (the 3-way split) there is a holler just off to the right of the road that Montgomery Creek runs through. It's called "Penitentiary Cove".

AbeHikes
03-10-2006, 15:14
It could well be true. As you approach Springer from the south on FS77, just before it intersects FS42 (the 3-way split) there is a holler just off to the right of the road that Montgomery Creek runs through. It's called "Penitentiary Cove".

Found something online...

"As late as 1959, some residents of Gilmer County were still calling Springer, Penitentiary Mountain. According to the Gilmer County Historical Society, the name was officially changed by the Georgia Appalachian Trail Club (GATC). Nobody seems to know why it was called Penitentiary--the origin of the name having been lost over time."

http://www.planetanimals.com/logue/Springer.html

Dances with Mice
03-10-2006, 15:36
Found something online... From that link, the same quote with a bit of the preceding paragraph:


At least as late as 1910, the U.S. Geological Survey was calling the long, loaf-shaped mountain by the name of Springer. But where did the name Springer come from.......As late as 1959, some residents of Gilmer County were still calling Springer, Penitentiary Mountain. According to the Gilmer County Historical Society, the name was officially changed by the Georgia Appalachian Trail Club (GATC). Nobody seems to know why it was called Penitentiary--the origin of the name having been lost over time.



GATC was founded in 1930, so they couldn't have "officially changed" the name. That was done by the US Geo Survey at least two decades before. But to the mountain folk, the GATC might have been the first ones they'd heard use that name.

Its not likely that anyone in the GATC then would have cared, either. When the AT was first laid out Springer was just a rather unexceptional mountain along the route. It didn't become the terminus until the late 50's.

partly cloudy
03-12-2006, 17:58
While doing the "Roller Coaster" in No. Va. last January, I meet a hiker that worked at Dulles Intern'l Airport. He says that a commercial airliner crashed into the mountain in the area of Mt. Weather. Because of the press investigating the crash, Mt Weather was brought to the public attention. The crash was so forceful that the plane split in 2, length-wise. All were killed. He has been searching for the crash site but has not found it yet.

Interesting story, truth or fiction???

RockyTrail
03-12-2006, 23:09
It's true, not certain about the name Mt Weather...

I had a co-worker that was living in a house near the crash site (about 1970-something?) and they heard the impact when it hit. This was about 20-30 miles NW of Dulles at the first major ridge. It was a CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) maybe 100 feet shy of clearing the ridge in poor visibility and they never knew it was coming. Modern aircraft have much better equipment and procedures to prevent this.

I'll check on it and get back if I find some more info.

RockyTrail
03-13-2006, 00:04
It was TWA Flight 514, a Boeing 727 N54328 enroute from Indy to Dulles, December 1, 1974.
Acccording to the report (see below) it hit the west slope of Mt Weather at coordinates 39 deg 04.6 min N and 77 deg 52.9 min W.

There is a detailed writeup on everything about this flight including the transcripts of the the crew's final discussions at:
http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/ntsb/aar/AAR75-16.pdf
It's sobering to read.

A more general description can be found at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_514

This tragic accident was a landmark case in aviation history. The ground proximity equipment required in all airliners today are a direct result of this crash.
I've read about this crash for many years, but until you mentioned it I never realized it was that close to the AT.

Krewzer
03-13-2006, 00:42
Hernando de Soto may have been the first European trekker on the AT...well, maybe in the general area. Interesting stuff about him and the area.

Early in 1540, near Augusta, Georgia, Hernando de Soto had been greeted by the Indian Lady of Cofitachequi, who was carried on a litter covered by a delicate white cloth, and was compared by one Spaniard to Cleopatra. She told de Soto that her people had little food and and had been afflicted by a terrible plague (possibly due to introduction of diseases by the 1526 expedition to South Carolina of de Ayllon). They took de Soto to their Cofitachequi Temple, with a roof of cane mats decorated inside and out with shells and pearls, at Talomico on a mound overlooking a river. De Soto repaid their hospitality by stealing the pearls from the Temple and kidnapping the Lady of Cofitachequi.

De Soto then travelled North and Northwest, so that his expedition may have been the first European contact with the (appalachian) area.

As the Indians learned how the de Soto treated them, they began to plan resistance, but had difficulty overcoming Spanish armor and horses. Later in 1540, in Alabama, de Soto encountered the Indian leader Tuscalusa, and demanded slaves and women. Tuscalusa promised to give de Soto women at Mabila. When they got to Mabila, Tuscalusa's Indians attacked de Soto by surprise, inflicting heavy losses, but the Indians were defeated in the pitched battle by Spanish horses and armor. After Mabila, de Soto went further West to Mississippi, by which time the Indians had learned that hit-and-run night attacks were the best way to combat the Spanish horses and armor.
In 1542, de Soto got sick and died, and the remnants of his expedition got to the Mexican port of Panuco in 1543. Before he died, de Soto concluded that the Southeastern Indians were not like the Indians of Mexico and Peru, because "... it was impossible to dominate ... men who were so free, and ... they could never make the Indians come under their yoke or dominion either by force or trickery, for rather than do so these people would all permit themselves to be slain.".

The Desperado
03-13-2006, 01:53
Well their certainly was Earl & Dorthy, but their was also many "unknowns" ie: Tin Cup,A#1,Blue Sky,OBY,Hickory etc...Of these I believe only OBY is still alive and living [now in his late 80's]. His stories of the "old time hiking" are cherished by me and others in the area that know him. The old canvas & wood frame packs,alpine boots,wool shirts etc .. great stuff!
Theirs also a bunch that calls themselves ''the group" and have been meeting in the Springer area once a year for many many years now, i'm told that at least one [if not more] are "buried or ashes spread" their and others will be as they pass. Kind of neat to think of actually, although many would have something to say about it. Im told these folks are all "old time" trail people and their annual meeting,dinners, trail work is all unaffiliated with any club/atc etc I just think it's neat these old timers doing this, and all keeping it all on the QT so to speak.

Disney
03-13-2006, 04:11
Army Rangers from Camp Merrill occasionally will cross the AT during training. Imagine waking up to a night exercise in Hawk Mountain or Gooch Gap Shelter.

Rain Man
03-13-2006, 11:22
Anyone interested in reading about Dorothy Laker would do well to pick up the out of print Hiking the Appalachian Trail by James Hare. ... Actually, that book is worth picking up anyway, for the countless narratives of early thru-hikers and their hikes. Best $100 bucks I ever spent.

I'm almost done with Volume One (it's a two-volume set). Got mine (both volumes) from www.alibris.com for about $25, I believe.

Volume One has, among the dozens it contains, Dorothy Laker's trip reports for all three of her thru-hikes.

It is fascinating to read what all these early thru-hikers did and how they did it! So far I'm struck that almost all of them were loners. Thru-hiking was NOT a social activity back then. Also, almost all of them were "old" people.

But it also shows how similar hiking is today, with emphasis on pack weight, water and food concerns, weather, and comments on trail conditions.

Anyway, lots and lots of "strange little known trail facts" in these reports.

Rain:sunMan

.

RockyTrail
03-13-2006, 11:43
The site of the 1974 airliner crash in VA can be seen on this map at the red + mark:
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=39.0766666666667&lon=-77.8816666666667&datum=nad83&u=7

The impact was at 1675' elevation into a rock outcropping after slicing trough about 500 feet of treetops. It's a real shame, they were only 25 feet short of clearing the ridge at 1700 ft, but with 70 ft trees it would take about 100 feet to completely clear it. Still, just a 1-second tug on the control yoke would have done it. It was foggy, windy, and snowing at the time.

The AT is about 0.3 mi to the east, and there is a "Shelter" marked there. What is the name of this shelter?

My former co-worker (whom I have since lost contact with) I think was living in one of those houses shown along Rt 601 when it happened. I remember he said it shook the house it was so close.

Groucho
03-13-2006, 13:55
The AT is about 0.3 mi to the east, and there is a "Shelter" marked there. What is the name of this shelter?



Three Springs Shelter.

partly cloudy
03-14-2006, 00:16
Thank you RockyTrail.
When I was talking to the other hiker that was looking for the crash site, we were right down the hill from it. I meet him just north of Va 605, north of the creek for Berryville Res. If I could find him again, I would surely relay the info. I think that old shelter marked on the map is when the AT ran the ridge before Va 601 was put in.
He also said about the proxmity alert system being manditory after that crash.

Good info thanks

DiamondDoug
04-15-2008, 12:20
I thought this was a fascinating thread, worth reviving. Got nothing else to add, other than it was a fun read. Kind of nice to read something Moxie wrote, too.

Tumblerisk
04-15-2008, 13:50
I was told that there are carvings or etchings made by De Soto's men on a large flat boulder next to Long Creek Falls (around mile 5 NOBO.) I have seen the rock and there are definitely some man made designs, but being an accountant and not an archaeologist, I couldn't tell if they were made 20 years ago or 2000. Suppodedly, one of the drawings is of one of the men throwing a woman off the falls. I'd be interested in hearing more if anyone else knows about this.

Tennessee Viking
04-15-2008, 14:12
I only hear ghost stories. Uncle Nick's dog barking at hikers around his gravesite.

Undershaft
04-15-2008, 14:40
Another Trails to rail section is a narrow gauge railway bed in New York between Graymoor Friary and the Shenandoah tenting area. It features both cuts and high masonry embankments like stone walls on steroids.

I didn't know that was a railroad bed. I remember thinking about how dedicated the trail builders and maintainers must have been to make all those stone walls and keep the trail level instead of following all the dips in the topography.

Undershaft
04-15-2008, 14:54
On the subject of plane crash sites, a WWII bomber crashed into Mt. Waternomee(one of the flanks of Mt. Moosilauke) less than a mile from the AT. I have also read about a plane crash site and wreckage near the summit of Mt. Success. It's supposed to be only a hundred yards or so from the AT.

Old Hillwalker
04-15-2008, 15:40
The AT Corridor boundary goes right over one of the wings of the DC3 wreck on Mt Success. We were there doing boundary work last fall and had to cross the remains several days in a row getting to and from our work site. There is an ammo box inside the fuselage that has the history of the crash and a register. The fuselage is big enough to walk around in. It was a "pancake landing" crash.

The B18A wreck on Waternomee has two bomb craters under where the wings would have been had they not been ripped off in the impact. The bombs went off "low order" in the fire that occurred when the crash occurred. The wings are spookily wrapped around trees. The plane was lost after returning from an antisubmarine patrol off the coast.

http://www.logginginlincoln.com/Page2.html

STEVEM
04-15-2008, 19:00
Those who've hiked the AT in New Jersey are familiar with the open stone pavilion at the summit of Sunrise Mountain. As I understand it, the Pavilion was built by the CCC during the Depression.

The floor of the pavilion is a random pattern of mortared slate flagstones. If you look carefully however, you'll find one stone that is carved into the shape of New Jersey. It's not as easy to find as you'd think.

KirkMcquest
04-15-2008, 19:02
Does anybody know the average number of miles between shelters on the entire A.T?

weary
04-15-2008, 21:41
Does anybody know the average number of miles between shelters on the entire A.T?
This is purely a guess. But I suspect about 7 ot 8 miles.

sasquatch2014
04-15-2008, 22:07
Another Trails to rail section is a narrow gauge railway bed in New York between Graymoor Friary and the Shenandoah tenting area. It features both cuts and high masonry embankments like stone walls on steroids.

I think I posted pics of some of this stone work a while back. This was a narrow guage line powered by mules that hauled iron ore from the Sunk Mines to the foundry down on the Hudson not too far from where Graymoor is. the foundry made the famous Parrot Guns of the Civil war. The line was active from about the 1840's to the 1870's.

sasquatch2014
04-15-2008, 22:26
In all of the length of the trail it only crosses one Indian Reservation and that is in CT. It is the Schaghticoke Reservation. I found this old news article that gives some interesting info on the trail through this area and some of the conflicts that are still present.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.839481/k.729F/Schaghticoke_Reservation.htm

No Belay
04-15-2008, 23:22
There is a "emergency generator" for the Fontana dam visitors center. Kind of makes you wonder.

Doctari.
They keep life jackets under the front desk. Really makes you wonder!

NICKTHEGREEK
04-16-2008, 05:55
I've got three.

"Many Sleeps" who was an NPS volunteer for several years at Fontana Dam (including 2000) walked South Carolina's 76-mile Foothills Trail in 3 days while in his early 70s.

Peregrine Falcons nest on the Bear Mountain Bridge. In fact, they nest on every bridge spanning the Hudson River from the Verrazano Narrows to Albany, NY.

Jack Tarlin is really a woman, Ann Coulter is really a man, and they've been having a torrid affair for several years now - right under our noses.
There's a couple who were truly made for each other;)

NorthCountryWoods
04-16-2008, 06:32
In all of the length of the trail it only crosses one Indian Reservation and that is in CT. It is the Schaghticoke Reservation. I found this old news article that gives some interesting info on the trail through this area and some of the conflicts that are still present.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.839481/k.729F/Schaghticoke_Reservation.htm

Used to work for a cabinet maker in Kent and considering some of the locals......I highly doubt there's going to be any casino. :D

Deerleg
04-16-2008, 08:29
Don't know the story but maybe someone else does. I counted over 100 of these tier shaped mounds along a short section of ridge on Sinking Creek Mt just above Sarver Hollow in central VA. There were also some down in the hollow next to what looked like a long abandon settlement. This one was well preserved, but many were in various states of deterioration. Graves?
http://i28.tinypic.com/50mr7b.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i28.tinypic.com/50mr7b.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

weary
04-16-2008, 09:40
Don't know the story but maybe someone else does. I counted over 100 of these tier shaped mounds along a short section of ridge on Sinking Creek Mt just above Sarver Hollow in central VA. There were also some down in the hollow next to what looked like a long abandon settlement. This one was well preserved, but many were in various states of deterioration. Graves?
http://i28.tinypic.com/50mr7b.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i28.tinypic.com/50mr7b.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)
In Maine such piles were made by farmers removing rocks so they could till and plant gardens. Maine rocks are rounded by the glacier and don't stack so neatly. But a quite prominent mound can be see on the AT trail that goes from Route 4 near Rangeley to the summit ridge of Saddleback.

Why there would be similar piles of stone in the south, which didn't experience the last ice age, is a mystery. Or what would have caused such a busting up of the bed rock into such multiple pieces. Maybe they are rocks that once were part of ancient charcoal kilns.

Weary

Kerosene
04-16-2008, 10:11
This is purely a guess. But I suspect about 7 ot 8 miles.Pretty close, weary. According to this site (http://www.cs.utk.edu/~dunigan/at/) listing 273 AT Shelters, the average distance between shelters is 8.26 miles, with a median of 7.6 miles. The minimum distance is 0.1 miles, and the biggest gap is 31.2 miles in Pennsylvania.

Jimmers
04-16-2008, 11:59
Don't know the story but maybe someone else does. I counted over 100 of these tier shaped mounds along a short section of ridge on Sinking Creek Mt just above Sarver Hollow in central VA. There were also some down in the hollow next to what looked like a long abandon settlement. This one was well preserved, but many were in various states of deterioration. Graves?
http://i28.tinypic.com/50mr7b.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i28.tinypic.com/50mr7b.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

It's likely that these were boundary markers used by surveyors to mark off property rights. It was pretty common practice in the 16-1800's in areas where building a stone wall was unnecessary to just mark the property line with cairns like these. Pretty hard to say you didn't notice one.;)

Sometimes these cairns are leftovers from the native Indians, who did build a lot of cairns. But I doubt that's it if there are over a 100 in such a short space.

Deerleg
04-16-2008, 19:30
It's likely that these were boundary markers used by surveyors to mark off property rights. It was pretty common practice in the 16-1800's in areas where building a stone wall was unnecessary to just mark the property line with cairns like these. Pretty hard to say you didn't notice one.;)

Sometimes these cairns are leftovers from the native Indians, who did build a lot of cairns. But I doubt that's it if there are over a 100 in such a short space.

Iím not so sure it was clearing fields of boundariesÖIíve seen both, and for clearing a field the piles seem to be usually haphazard, and boundary walls, lines have a recognizable pattern. These mounds had a distinct tier shape and were relatively close togetherÖitís possible they were to clear a field, but I canít help think they might be something else. hmm

mudhead
04-16-2008, 19:36
Some crazed fool who was thinking about building a barn.

And then ran out of steam.

weary
04-16-2008, 20:13
Mounds of rocks were also been commonly used in Maine to mark property boundaries. But I've traced many deeds in my volunteer work with our town land trust -- and nothing I've seen remotely resembles this mound.

Weary

weary
04-16-2008, 20:32
I'm almost done with Volume One (it's a two-volume set). Got mine (both volumes) from www.alibris.com for about $25, I believe.

Volume One has, among the dozens it contains, Dorothy Laker's trip reports for all three of her thru-hikes.

It is fascinating to read what all these early thru-hikers did and how they did it! So far I'm struck that almost all of them were loners. Thru-hiking was NOT a social activity back then. Also, almost all of them were "old" people.

But it also shows how similar hiking is today, with emphasis on pack weight, water and food concerns, weather, and comments on trail conditions.
.
Yup. All these "old" guys were old. I mean Earl was in his 20s. Dot was about the same age -- at least she died around the same time. The second thru hiker was still alive a decade ago. He spoke at an ATC conference. Terribly old he must have been when five decades earlier, he was a pioneer thru hiker.

But you are right. Backpacking for many decades has championed the lowest possible pack weight. I wonder why. Do you suppose it had to do with relieving stress on the back, knees, and other body parts?

The amazing things is that all these years later, there are still old folks concerned about impacts on their back, knees, and other body parts?

Weary

Summit
04-16-2008, 21:38
Similar to Kerosene's experience, I was once eating lunch at the old Addis Gap shelter (N of Tray Mtn). It was an absolutely beautiful day and I was soaking up the quiet, serene beauty of it all, getting very mellow, and all of a sudden an F-16 buzzed over at treetop level and literally blew me off the shelter picnic table. I felt the heat of the after burners. Then I felt the new deposit in my underwear! :eek: (just kidding about that, but it was close! :D )

Dances with Mice
04-16-2008, 21:49
...The second thru hiker was still alive a decade ago. He spoke at an ATC conference. Terribly old he must have been when five decades earlier, he was a pioneer thru hiker. ... Gene Espy, the second thru-hiker, is quite alive and still a young man.

TIDE-HSV
04-16-2008, 22:35
Reading your remarks, Weary, made me pick up the AT books for the first time in years. Dorothy's account is long, since it covers two thru's and one section, interrupted from '62 until '72. Looking at the pic of her in 1957, she's a young woman, but not younger than late 20s to early 30s, and that's 51 years ago. (Not hard for me to remember, since it was my freshman year in college.)

Grampie
04-17-2008, 22:12
During my thru in 2001 I met a group of three guys from the Washington, D. C. area. They came into Tri-coner Knob Shelter with part of an airplane wing. They have a hobby of finding airplane crash sites. They had a government web site that gave the GPS of the crash. They would than try to locate them. They were out for the weekend and had found three different sites. I always thought that it was an interesting hobby to have.

Askus3
04-18-2008, 01:04
What is the highest above the ground level trail sign for the AT that is meant for hikers walking by? There is one on the AT about 100 yards north of the NY 17A crossing, that I would bet 50% of hikers miss. First of all it is on a tree 20 feet above the trail. 2nd it faces the trail on the left side instead of facing someone who is walking along the trail either northbound or southbound (in other words perpendicular to the trail). It is a well carved sign and rather new but is totally useless in its current location. It indicates that it is 2 more miles to the Wildcat Shelter. But if you are like most hikers looking where you put your feet, you will never notice this trail sign way up over your head!

sasquatch2014
04-18-2008, 07:26
What is the highest above the ground level trail sign for the AT that is meant for hikers walking by? There is one on the AT about 100 yards north of the NY 17A crossing, that I would bet 50% of hikers miss. First of all it is on a tree 20 feet above the trail. 2nd it faces the trail on the left side instead of facing someone who is walking along the trail either northbound or southbound (in other words perpendicular to the trail). It is a well carved sign and rather new but is totally useless in its current location. It indicates that it is 2 more miles to the Wildcat Shelter. But if you are like most hikers looking where you put your feet, you will never notice this trail sign way up over your head!

It is setup that way in case we ever get a winter where we get a real snowfall.

sheepdog
04-18-2008, 09:21
Great thread

Kerosene
04-18-2008, 09:22
What is the highest above the ground level trail sign for the AT that is meant for hikers walking by?The turn-off sign to the Wawayanda Shelter in northern Jersey was also positioned much higher than it should be, but I believe that they recently relocated part of the Trail around there, so it may not be an issue any longer.

SGT Rock
04-18-2008, 11:06
I was also surprised that the showers are solar powered when they have a jagillion watts of power RIGHT THERE.
Or how about the fact the mens room ran out of water the other day even though it is in a dam that holds back gazillions of gallons of water. The dudes were using the chick's shower. :sun

SGT Rock
04-18-2008, 11:09
It's likely that these were boundary markers used by surveyors to mark off property rights. It was pretty common practice in the 16-1800's in areas where building a stone wall was unnecessary to just mark the property line with cairns like these. Pretty hard to say you didn't notice one.;)

Sometimes these cairns are leftovers from the native Indians, who did build a lot of cairns. But I doubt that's it if there are over a 100 in such a short space.
On that mountain it is not likelt. These things are pretty darn close together, there are probably 50 of them on a ridge walk that is about 2 miles long. If they stacked them to clear a field, then they put these stacks too close together to make it worth clearing the field in the first place.

woodsy
04-18-2008, 11:50
Did you know......that Bigelow mountain was named after one of Benedict Arnold's officers on their quest through this region to capture Quebec City in 1775?

Tradition asserts that, while the Americans encamped there, Major Bigelow ascended to the summit of the mountain, with the expectation of seeing the spires of Quebec! From this supposed adventure the mountain derives its name.

emerald
04-18-2008, 14:16
Mounds of rocks were also commonly used in Maine to mark property boundaries. But I've traced many deeds in my volunteer work with our town land trust -- and nothing I've seen remotely resembles this mound.

Weary

There are similiar rock mounds along the Berks-Schuylkill County boundary in Pennsylvania, although the rocks from which they're built are not as flat.

emerald
04-18-2008, 14:20
Did you know......that Bigelow mountain was named after one of Benedict Arnold's officers on their quest through this region to capture Quebec City in 1775?

I hurd this offissah was wantin' to see what he could see from what some little birdie told 'im would one day be named Myron Avery Peek.;)

Dances with Mice
04-18-2008, 15:33
Maybe they are rocks that once were part of ancient charcoal kilns.I was thinking moonshine still but I can't see the entire shape and they would be located next to a water source.

woodsy
04-18-2008, 17:31
I hurd this offissah was wantin' to see what he could see from what some little birdie told 'im would one day be named Myron Avery Peek.;)
Nobody seems to know for sure which peak Colonel Bigelow and fellow mountaineers climbed but If'n I was a betting guy I'd bet they climbed Cranberry peak cause the Arnold encampment was at the site of Flagstaff village(gone under the waves), Cranberry is probably the closest and is the northwesternmost peak, North Horn would be my second guess.
Myron Avery discovered Avery Peak:rolleyes: :p

woodsy
04-18-2008, 18:24
"Pamola" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamola) was the local Penobscot Indians name for MT Kathadin.
Read the link to learn why they feared climbing it.:eek:

whitefoot_hp
04-18-2008, 19:38
there is more food to choose from at vogel state park than at neels gap walisi -yi, and vogel is only a mile down the road.

budforester
04-19-2008, 07:54
Don't know the story but maybe someone else does. I counted over 100 of these tier shaped mounds along a short section of ridge on Sinking Creek Mt just above Sarver Hollow in central VA. There were also some down in the hollow next to what looked like a long abandon settlement. This one was well preserved, but many were in various states of deterioration. Graves?


I vote for pine tar; if you click this link (http://www.maritime.org/conf/conf-kaye-tar.htm)and scroll down there is a sketch and a description.

Sleepy the Arab
04-19-2008, 11:39
What is the highest above the ground level trail sign for the AT that is meant for hikers walking by? There is one on the AT about 100 yards north of the NY 17A crossing, that I would bet 50% of hikers miss. First of all it is on a tree 20 feet above the trail. 2nd it faces the trail on the left side instead of facing someone who is walking along the trail either northbound or southbound (in other words perpendicular to the trail). It is a well carved sign and rather new but is totally useless in its current location. It indicates that it is 2 more miles to the Wildcat Shelter. But if you are like most hikers looking where you put your feet, you will never notice this trail sign way up over your head!

About six miles south of Manchester Center, VT. there is a sign on a birch tree that says "Look Up." About 15 feet higher up the tree (and about 20 feet above the ground) there is a sign posted for Prospect Rock.

I took a picture of it, mostly because I can't understand the logic of making a sign to point out another sign, rather than lower the sign. It just runs so contrary to the Yankee mindset.

emerald
04-19-2008, 11:49
Myron Avery discovered Avery Peak:rolleyes: :p

I thought the Maine legislature named it so because it would have been extremely bad form to rename Baxter Peek and South Peek isn't on the AT.;)

emerald
04-19-2008, 12:09
"Pamola" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamola) was the local Penobscot Indians name for MT Kathadin.
Read the link to learn why they feared climbing it.:eek:

Please!:rolleyes: Katahdin alone will suffice.:welcome I'm beginning to wonder whether you're from away.:-?


The spirit resented mortals intruding from down below.

Especially scofflaws with hang gliders who trample alpine vegetation.

woodsy
04-19-2008, 13:16
Please!:rolleyes: Katahdin alone will suffice.:welcome I'm beginning to wonder whether you're from away.:-?
Only people from away spell Kathadin like you did:rolleyes: :p

emerald
04-19-2008, 14:21
You probably pronounce Katahdin like you spell it.:rolleyes: If you'll refer to Baxter State Park's website, you'll find it's spelled as I spelled it every time.

woodsy
04-19-2008, 15:00
You probably pronounce Katahdin like you spell it.:rolleyes:
Well of course, we're different;)
If you were to google Kathadin, it comes up with lots of links spelled the way we spell it:D

mudhead
04-19-2008, 18:49
Spell it either way, but please don't po Pamola.

emerald
04-19-2008, 22:40
Well of course, we're different;)

If you were to google Kathadin, it comes up with lots of links spelled the way we spell it:D

I always liked Ktaadn, but it was spelt so by someone from Massachusetts who travelled there by batteau.

When I Googled Kathadin, Google responded, "Did you mean to search for: Katahdin (http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&client=pub-2871740088182458&cof=FORID:1%3BGL:1%3BLBGC:339933%3BBGC:%23339966%3 BT:%23330033%3BLC:%23000000%3BVLC:%2366ff00%3BGALT :%23660033%3BDIV:%2366CC00%3B&oe=ISO-8859-1&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=1&ct=result&cd=1&q=Katahdin&spell=1)[?]" I replied, "No, if I'd wanted to Google Katahdin, I would have done so." Google then queried where I'd learned such a spelling to which I replied WhiteBlaze. It then generated a :rolleyes: and redirected me here.:confused:

TIDE-HSV
04-20-2008, 01:28
Slightly off the AT, but not by much, in the GSMNP, the trail between Walnut Bottoms and Low Gap on the AT has an old graveyard at the first "bench" above the bottoms campground. Once, while camped there, a friend and I decided to find it. We tramped all over the flat area, and I was talking to him across some rolls in the terrain and I looked down and realized I was standing on a grave and so was he. The rolls were regular, and, after we realized where we were standing, we started seeing the little eroded sandstone headstones, on which you could see that there had been carving which had been weathered away.

At first, I was puzzled that they would bury so close by above their water source. Looking around, however, I could see that there wasn't much level space in the bottom, and what there was, was subject to flooding. Also, a lot of the mounds were small and obviously children. There were so many diseases, cholera and the like, which took out a lot of kids at one time, and, having hiked up out of the bottoms in every possible direction, I couldn't think of another relatively level place where graves would have fit.

Thinking of the bottoms and the beautiful trail up Big Creek leading in, I have to think about Brakeshoe Spring, and the old rusted train brakeshoe which funneled the water down in an appropriately sized stream for refilling a water bottle. I used to marvel that no one disturbed it - until some unspeakable b*stard stole it. Probably too much to wish for, but I hope a curse followed him...

jzakhar
04-20-2008, 10:29
Anyone know of any caves on or close to the AT ?

Undershaft
04-20-2008, 12:23
There is a tiny cave right on the trail just south of Pine Brook Swamp lean-to in CT.

BugGirl
04-20-2008, 22:17
sweet post about the pine tar. Cool!

emerald
04-20-2008, 22:25
Anyone know of any caves on or close to the AT ?

Yes, I know of several.

Wise Old Owl
04-20-2008, 23:02
I don't know of old stories but I was very surprised when we were backpacking several years ago from New Found Gap to Cades Cove the shelter going west right before you go over Thunderhead Mtn and Rocky Top we saw a young ranger who was hunting hogs with a 12 gage shotgun.

We were talking about the trail and we asked if any planes ever go down in the park. To my surprise he told me that about 1 to 2 miles back there was a Cessna in the top of the trees and has been there for years. The park service drains the oil and gas out and sometimes leave the plane.

He said that it was very close to the trail. I guess in the future I need to look up instead of always looking at the trail and maybe I would have seen it.

There are many planes missing in the Smokies that have never been found so who knows.


It doesn't look like a Cessna, not the white fuzzy spot, the green one with a partially covered tail below it. Type the Lat / Long exactly as it appears into Google Earth.


http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/plane.jpg

Wise Old Owl
04-20-2008, 23:16
Anyone know of any caves on or close to the AT ?

The Pinnacle near Hawk Mountain in Pennsylvania.

Downunda
04-20-2008, 23:32
Thoreau in writing about his trip to the Maine woods spelt Katahdin as Ktaadn. Does anyone know why the spelling has changed?

emerald
04-20-2008, 23:35
Way back when people spelled things however they wanted. Thoreau likely spelled the word as he heard it pronounced. No English words I know of begin with Kt or end in dn, but Katahdin is pronounced more nearly Ktaadn by at least some of those who know it best.

sliderule
05-18-2008, 19:36
It doesn't look like a Cessna, not the white fuzzy spot, the green one with a partially covered tail below it. Type the Lat / Long exactly as it appears into Google Earth.


http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/plane.jpg

I think what we have here is a plane in flight that just happened to wind up in the satellite photo.

sasquatch2014
05-18-2008, 21:00
The Pinnacle near Hawk Mountain in Pennsylvania.

There is a cave down river by a few miles from Bulls Bridge just south of Gaylordsville Ct. As far as I know it is one of the few Marble caves in the area. Havent explored it so not sure about much of its extent etc.

Bare Bear
05-19-2008, 10:15
The piles of rocks are from trail maintainers. The rocks are sent to Pa to be sharpened, used locally for one year, then returned for stubbing toes, twisting ankles etc. so that all may enjoy the Pa Experience. I do so like to enlighten the less knowledgable.

OwlsRevenge
05-19-2008, 10:55
Army Rangers will not only cross the AT, but they do excersises in the area. Imagine standing beside a small babbling brook, eating a granola bar and being deep in throught about the prospect of brook trout inhabiting the stream...hmmm..brookies in there? hmmm...

then, out of no where....


a voice says

" Sorry sir, we're ( OK, AT THIS POINT I ABOUT PASSED OUT) doing some manuvers in the area and didn't want to scare you."


Nice sentiment, but too late for that! :)

Two rangers had walked up behind me.....when the one spoke, I turned around and they were 2 ft. from me and I never heard them coming despite the fact that I can usually hear a squirrel snap a twig from 50 yards. I figure they had alot of fun sneaking up on me to tell me they didn't want to scare me. :)

Oh, and the fact that they were in full camo/face paint and m-16 rifles in hand added to the "HOLY CRAP" moment. :)

Then, there was one night when I was camping there at Three Forks( FS42) and a blackhawk flew down the river valley. Here's some advice....don't shine your flashlight up at the chopper as it gets close to your campsite unless you enjoy being partially blind for the next 5 minutes. They lit up my little camp like it was high noon that night! :)

Sometimes, too you'll be surprised by them doing their training stuff. One day while fishing, I set the hook to the sound of a "boom" from a dummy grenade. There was a loud boom, and then alot of yelling and then some rifle "fire"...


I'm glad those guys are there though...and I'm thankful for their service. But, they sure have given me a few yowweeeeeee moments over the years. :)

vamelungeon
04-09-2009, 11:56
I vote for pine tar; if you click this link (http://www.maritime.org/conf/conf-kaye-tar.htm)and scroll down there is a sketch and a description.
Charcoal burners. Lots of people in the mountains used to make a living burning charcoal. There's a good description in one of the Foxfire books.

middle to middle
04-09-2009, 15:51
Is Grandma G the one carried a sack and regular rain coat ? She was some determined hiker.

middle to middle
04-09-2009, 15:57
I was in the infantry in the 60's and did some training at Fort Durm. Had several instances of troopers run over by tanks at night when they were sleeping. Sleep by a big tree when around the army.

rainmakerat92
04-09-2009, 20:16
I'ved lived in north Georgia for over 20 years, and always wondered how Muskrat Creek got it's name, since the creek is too small and too shallow to support any muskrats. A group of hikers (myself included) were discussing place names one night at Plumorchard Gap Shelter, and suprisingly, someone knew the answer:

The area previously was home to the Cherokee, and they had a habit of taking animal names as surnames. The surname of an extended family who lived near the creek was Muskrat, hence the name.

Bronk
04-10-2009, 00:33
I vote for pine tar; if you click this link (http://www.maritime.org/conf/conf-kaye-tar.htm)and scroll down there is a sketch and a description.

I remember seeing these piles of rock also near Sarver Hollow...my recollection is that they were stacked up in almost cubes...I don't see how they could have been for charcoal or pine tar...the rocks were pretty white...the rain wouldn't be able to wash them that clean even over a long period of time...once stone is stained like that its pretty well stained.

The fact that they are along the ridgeline offers more evidence that they weren't used for this purpose...why on earth would you haul the stones and/or material to make pine tar or charcoal UPHILL? And we are talking a very steep hill here...the trail down to Sarver Hollow shelter (and the old homestead site) is so steep as to be almost vertical.

I remember asking someone about them just after I had hiked through (don't remember who) and being told that they were indeed stacked up to clear the ridge of rock...they said that there used to be apple trees planted on the ridgeline and the rocks were stacked up to make a place to plant the trees. I don't know if this can be verified or not, that's just what I heard.

TIDE-HSV
04-10-2009, 11:09
The Cherokee had many animal place names. My great-grandparent were born in NE AL in "Bear's Village" in the 1820s. After the Removal, it was renamed "Brooksville" - about 10 miles south of Guntersville. There are a lot of funny names from white settlers misunderstanding the Cherokee pronunciation.* In the GSMNP, two examples - There are two peaks named "Curry He," and "Curry She." The Cherokee had one herb called "guru." "Hi" (pronounced like "he") just means "there." So the peak they named "Guru Hi" just meant guru was there. After the settlers changed it to "Curry He," it was only logical to name the adjacent peak "Curry She." The Cherokee had no "V" sound, so they subbed "B." During the civil war, they were asked to vote on which mountain to build a road on to bring gunpowder over the main ridge of the Smokys. The one they decided on was named "Bote Mountain." Appropriately, the ridge which lost was named "Defeat Ridge."

*Starting with the name Cherokee. They actually pronounced it more as "Tsaligi." The name Charley (hero of the saga of the salvation of the Eastern Band during the Removal) comes out "Tsali."

middle to middle
04-10-2009, 11:42
Lying under a big pine tree in the rain, listening to the bird droppings splat on the ground around us, we calculated the odds of one hitting you in your open mouth while snoring to be one quadrillion to one. Take comfort in this !

T

Kanati
04-10-2009, 12:53
On that mountain it is not likelt. These things are pretty darn close together, there are probably 50 of them on a ridge walk that is about 2 miles long. If they stacked them to clear a field, then they put these stacks too close together to make it worth clearing the field in the first place.

I studied these carefully last year as I passed thru and came up with a couple of possiblities. One is that they may be have been placed for defensive positioning, not necessarily to hold the position but to slow the advance as others made their get away. They are too close together to be for property line/corner marking. Some of them were carefully stacked to create a particular shape. At least one toward the north end is almost like an oven. If you will remember, this area is a relative flat top mountain, about 50 yards wide more or less and 1/2 mile long lying between two rich farming valleys.

Another possible scenario is that it was a settlement of poor people who were forced to inhabit the mountain top as the valleys had already been settled by more progressive people. In this case the mountain top settlers possibly didn't have the means to clear away the rocks except by hand and didn't move them any farther than they had too.

Who knows?

Spogatz
04-10-2009, 13:42
There is always the cheese factory site. It was once a dairy farm back in the 1800's. The owner lived down in the valley 30 miles away.

Nothing there now but a good camp spot and a nice spring.

McKeever
04-10-2009, 14:51
I remember seeing these piles of rock also near Sarver Hollow...my recollection is that they were stacked up in almost cubes...I don't see how they could have been for charcoal or pine tar...the rocks were pretty white...the rain wouldn't be able to wash them that clean even over a long period of time...once stone is stained like that its pretty well stained.

The fact that they are along the ridge line offers more evidence that they weren't used for this purpose...why on earth would you haul the stones and/or material to make pine tar or charcoal UPHILL? And we are talking a very steep hill here...the trail down to Sarver Hollow shelter (and the old homestead site) is so steep as to be almost vertical.

I remember asking someone about them just after I had hiked through (don't remember who) and being told that they were indeed stacked up to clear the ridge of rock...they said that there used to be apple trees planted on the ridgeline and the rocks were stacked up to make a place to plant the trees. I don't know if this can be verified or not, that's just what I heard.

The top of ridge was cleared of rocks for an apple orchard. Some of the trees have survived and the apples are sweet though mostly just deer apples now. They sold apples, chestnuts, and raised livestock to sell up on that mountain top. It's a haunting place to hike though or camp at. One of my favorite places.

Sarge
04-10-2009, 15:03
An F-4 Phantom from Shaw AFB, SC crashed on the trail in the east end of the Smokies back in the 80's. I found some pieces of it on the side of the trail and a ranger explained to me what they were. A couple years later I was recounting the story with some coworkers and found out one of them was stationed at Shaw at the time and remembers when it crashed.

Sarge

McKeever
04-10-2009, 17:49
An F-4 Phantom from Shaw AFB, SC crashed on the trail in the east end of the Smokies back in the 80's. I found some pieces of it on the side of the trail and a ranger explained to me what they were. A couple years later I was recounting the story with some coworkers and found out one of them was stationed at Shaw at the time and remembers when it crashed.

Sarge

Good one. I had forgotten that one. There was a big chunk of it at like the next to last shelter. Is it still there?

Doctari
04-11-2009, 08:33
I was in the infantry in the 60's and did some training at Fort Durm. Had several instances of troopers run over by tanks at night when they were sleeping. Sleep by a big tree when around the army.

A friend was doing some training in the area a "few" years ago, had the fox hols etc. got up to take a leak around midnight, when he came back from just a few feet away there were tank tracks RIGHT THROUGH where just minutes ago he had been laying. "I heard the tanks all night, didn't think anything of it at the time, at least till after I peed my pants the 2nd time in minutes"

He also stated he didn't sleep anymore that night. :eek:

Doctari
04-11-2009, 08:37
Anyone know of any caves on or close to the AT ?

A small one about 1 - 2 miles down Goshen Prong trail just N of Double Springs gap shelter in the Smokies. The opening is about 2' x 8' & from what I could see it's at least 20' deep. I didn't enter it.

Bearpaw
04-11-2009, 11:11
A friend was doing some training in the area a "few" years ago, had the fox hols etc. got up to take a leak around midnight, when he came back from just a few feet away there were tank tracks RIGHT THROUGH where just minutes ago he had been laying. "I heard the tanks all night, didn't think anything of it at the time, at least till after I peed my pants the 2nd time in minutes"

He also stated he didn't sleep anymore that night. :eek:

Tracked vehicles are tough on crunchies.

Fortunately, the AT doesn't make very good track country.

beakerman
04-13-2009, 04:26
All this talk of Army maneuvers reminds me of when I was a kid...about 11 or so I had just crossed into the scouts...anyway me and one of my buddies were walking along a dirt road and we come across an entire convoy just stopped on the road. Up at the head of the convoy was an officer...a lieutenant as I recall and he looked like he had just been abruptly transported to Mars or something. He had his maps out and was frantically trying to locate himself on one of them. He was more than embarrassed when my friend and I walked up casually oriented his map, pointed out on the map exactly where he was, asked where he wanted to go, gave him detailed directions and then walked off into the woods to our favorite fishing hole. About two years later we had a repeat at almost the same exact spot. We laughed so hard we almost wet ourselves.

Desert Reprobate
04-13-2009, 07:10
I believe it was Sonora Pass, ( it has been a while), and the marines were practicing their mountain climbing. There was a small cafe across the street. I was wearing an OD poncho and pants. It had been raining for a while and I went into the cafe for a cup of coffee. A young lieutenant came up to me and ordered me back across the street. I replied "f*** off". I thought he was going to have a stroke. Some sgt came over and lead him off telling him I wasn't part of their group.

TrippinBTM
04-13-2009, 21:14
Don't know the story but maybe someone else does. I counted over 100 of these tier shaped mounds along a short section of ridge on Sinking Creek Mt just above Sarver Hollow in central VA. There were also some down in the hollow next to what looked like a long abandon settlement. This one was well preserved, but many were in various states of deterioration. Graves?
http://i28.tinypic.com/50mr7b.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i28.tinypic.com/50mr7b.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)
Man, I remember those. Very strange. That day there were a million butterflies flying around in the shafts of afternoon sunlight. Everything silent. It was a very eerie scene, like walking through an old indian graveyard or something. But beautiful, too.

Interesting now to finally find out what they are: simply cleared stone for an orchard. I had considered field clearing, but it seemed an odd place for it, and anyways the ground is still pretty damn rocky.

jaywalke
04-13-2009, 21:50
all of a sudden an F-16 buzzed over at treetop level and literally blew me off the shelter picnic table

A flight of F-18 Hornets out of Norfolk fly over the Radford Army Ammunition Plant every day. They must turn around somewhere over Pearisburg and follow the New River down to the plant, because occasionally when I am commuting home they come hammering over the ridgetop, right on the deck, and scare the crap out of everyone on the road.

Bronk
04-14-2009, 01:03
Man, I remember those. Very strange. That day there were a million butterflies flying around in the shafts of afternoon sunlight. Everything silent. It was a very eerie scene, like walking through an old indian graveyard or something. But beautiful, too.

Interesting now to finally find out what they are: simply cleared stone for an orchard. I had considered field clearing, but it seemed an odd place for it, and anyways the ground is still pretty damn rocky.


It may seem odd that there are so many stones and the ground still rocky, but where I live if you dig a hole to plant a tree about 85% of what comes out of the hole is rock and you have to find soil to replace it when filling the hole back in...I imagine they ran into the same thing when they planted trees up on that ridge.

Grampie
04-14-2009, 09:01
I remember seeing these piles of rock also near Sarver Hollow...my recollection is that they were stacked up in almost cubes...I don't see how they could have been for charcoal or pine tar...the rocks were pretty white...the rain wouldn't be able to wash them that clean even over a long period of time...once stone is stained like that its pretty well stained.

The fact that they are along the ridgeline offers more evidence that they weren't used for this purpose...why on earth would you haul the stones and/or material to make pine tar or charcoal UPHILL? And we are talking a very steep hill here...the trail down to Sarver Hollow shelter (and the old homestead site) is so steep as to be almost vertical.

I remember asking someone about them just after I had hiked through (don't remember who) and being told that they were indeed stacked up to clear the ridge of rock...they said that there used to be apple trees planted on the ridgeline and the rocks were stacked up to make a place to plant the trees. I don't know if this can be verified or not, that's just what I heard.

Up north, New England, when land was cleared to farm the used the rocks dug up to make stone walls. They would first put them in piles and do the planting around the piles and later use them to make walls. For some reason these stones were never moved again after being piled to clear the land.
You don't have to clear the rocks from the land to plant apple trees. They were probably growing something else, like corn.

warraghiyagey
04-14-2009, 09:04
It's cool to be walking in the woods in the northeast and see these stone walls stretching off through the trees and know that in the not too distant past they were clear-cut fields that the trees reclaimed. . . :sun:sun

TrippinBTM
04-14-2009, 19:51
It's cool to be walking in the woods in the northeast and see these stone walls stretching off through the trees and know that in the not too distant past they were clear-cut fields that the trees reclaimed. . . :sun:sun
Yeah, I really enjoyed that. It's about the closest thing we have to ancient ruins here in the USA, besides the Anasazi ruins in the southwest, and a few mounds here and there.

Neat how nature really takes over again. The walls, though man-made, look like they belong there. I like that. I like when old towns look that way too. Probably why I'd like to visit Europe someday.