New to southern AT, Question about bugs

[Dirty Paws]

Questions about bugs- I plan to start at Springer ~4/10->4/15.

Since I never hiked the AT south of New England I don’t know how bad the bugs can get down there.
I’m assuming the bugs will activate sometime after the trees green, around mid May- is that right? How are the mid atlantic states for bugs?


Is it a good idea - or even a necessity- to get a head net for the bugs while hiking? Is it worse than June in Maine? I’ve never used a net before but I know Maine can get pretty bad. I remember spending days swatting at gnats that go for the eyes, biting flies, black flies, TICKS, and of course mosquitoes.


Are there other kinds of bugs that you don’t get in New England that I should prepare for down south?

Is DEET the best deterrent? Oh yeah- do I need to keep an eye out for poison ivy on the trail?​


Advice & thoughts are welcome, & sorry for the discordant jumble of questions.
Thank you

[bigcranky]

I've been hiking around here for 30 years, never had an issue with bugs where I needed a head net. Maybe some DEET once in a while. Ticks are more of a concern for me.

Now there are some places at the coast where you can get carried away by mosquitos, especially some of the uninhabited barrier islands. But not on the AT in my experience.

[Tipi Walter]

I won't go out during bug season in the Southeast (March thru October) without my sea to summit headnet. We have gnats which swarm the face and get into ears and nose and mouth and eyes and so the net really helps. Noseeums really suck, too. How much does the headnet weigh? Nothing.

[Slo-go'en]

The gnats can be a little annoying, but I never found them to be much of a problem and aren't as viscous as black flies. Maybe my timing has been good and never been there when they are really bad.

I'm usually in a tent at night so mosquitos aren't an issue either, nor the other creepy crawly things like spiders, centipedes, beetles and what not.

[Slo-go'en]

Poison ivy usually isn't a problem until late in the summer when the trail gets overgrown. You likely won't see any until into VA or PA. Just have to be careful going off trail to pee or something and look out where you lean your pack, since poison oak vines can be growing up the side of a tree. I don't believe I have ever gotten a rash from poison ivy or poison oak.

I got a bad case of Chiggers once in PA, probably from wearing shorts and brushing up against some plant which they had infested. Those are nasty and hard to get rid of. That's why I really don't like hiking in shorts, but when it's 90 degrees and 90% humidity, it's hard not to.

[daddytwosticks]

A Walmart head net cost almost nothing and is maybe an ounce or two. Likewise, a small applicator of DEET from Walmart also is light weight and cheap. I always carry both. Seems like I use the headnet more often than the DEET down south here. :)

[bigcranky]

The gnats can be a little annoying, but I never found them to be much of a problem and aren't as viscous as black flies.

This, plus I find wearing a headnet is hot and obscures my vision. I carried a headnet the entire length of the Long Trail in July and never once wore it, even with the annoying gnats dive bombing my eyes and ears.

[Bansko]

While I started a little earlier (March 17th) I didn't find insects to be a problem at all for several months. New England in July and August was when they got bad. Head net in Maine.

[Greenlight]

Have your clothes permeated with permethrin before you go. There are companies that will do it for you, or you can buy the spray and do it yourself. Also carry DEET for if things get out of control. A head net is, as everyone else has said, cheap, light, and effective. Chemicals help to keep the insects from feeding on you, but they'll still buzz around, light on you, and be annoying. That is tolerable everywhere but around your face. My face net is in the bottom of my clothing bag. When bugs get bad, it is in the top zipper pouch of my Osprey.


Questions about bugs- I plan to start at Springer ~4/10->4/15.

Since I never hiked the AT south of New England I don’t know how bad the bugs can get down there.
I’m assuming the bugs will activate sometime after the trees green, around mid May- is that right? How are the mid atlantic states for bugs?


Is it a good idea - or even a necessity- to get a head net for the bugs while hiking? Is it worse than June in Maine? I’ve never used a net before but I know Maine can get pretty bad. I remember spending days swatting at gnats that go for the eyes, biting flies, black flies, TICKS, and of course mosquitoes.


Are there other kinds of bugs that you don’t get in New England that I should prepare for down south?

Is DEET the best deterrent? Oh yeah- do I need to keep an eye out for poison ivy on the trail?​


Advice & thoughts are welcome, & sorry for the discordant jumble of questions.
Thank you

[Dan Roper]

Bugs are never a real issue in the Southern Appalachians. Not enough to worry about or to wear special clothing or to have your clothing treated. I've never seen a mosquito on the AT. Gnats can be annoying in April and May, but not a serious issue. On very rare occasions small biting flies will harass you in the summer. Ticks are not a real issue except rarely in the grasslands, and mostly that's from April through June.

There are only three real concerns in the southeast, and only the first of these is a serious issue that generally lives up to the hype: (1) lightning, (2) poisonous snakes, (3) bears.

[saltysack]

I've never had a bug issue on the southern AT but always treat my shoes and socks for ticks w permethrin but never used a net or spray....just got back from the glades.....now there are some BUGS! Tyvek painters suit worked great keeping them off...


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[rafe]

IIRC it was late April, early May before they started being a problem, by that time I was well outta Georgia. And mostly it's the no see-ums that drove me bonkers. Those tiny *&^%$s that dive-bomb your eyeballs and ears.

[Tipi Walter]

Bugs are never a real issue in the Southern Appalachians.

There are only three real concerns in the southeast, and only the first of these is a serious issue that generally lives up to the hype: (1) lightning, (2) poisonous snakes, (3) bears.

Wow, we must be hiking in a wholly different set of woods. NOSEEUMS are hellish at times and pester me endlessly from Pisgah NF to the Nantahalas and into the Cherokee national forest. Of course I'm out in June and July and August and September . . . Gnat swarms are also devilish in certain locations as hundreds of the Detards go for every orifice of your body. Then there's biting deer flies and the wonderful horse flies. Bug season starts in March if it's warm enough and peaks in July.

As far as the real concerns in the Southeast, here's my list---
** Dang mufflerless motorcyclists (harleys) roaring on the area tourist roads adjacent to wilderness trails---terrible noise pollution. (The rice burners are bad too).
** Near constant overhead jet traffic noise thruout the Southeast and caused by the airports in Atlanta, Charlotte, Asheville, Chattanooga and Knosville. Wilderness? There is no wilderness.


IIRC it was late April, early May before they started being a problem, by that time I was well outta Georgia. And mostly it's the no see-ums that drove me bonkers. Those tiny *&^%$s that dive-bomb your eyeballs and ears.

I hate the little retardant noseeums!! The only relief in camp is to zip up the tent when it's 90F.

[illabelle]

Agree with posters above that bugs are not a big deal on the southern AT. I've been up north and experienced those vicious voracious biting black flies. We don't have anything like that. A few gnats. Mosquitoes if you camp in a bad spot. Horse flies once in a while. Yellow jackets sometimes - run away!

I don't have a headnet, probably wouldn't wear it if I did. How am I going to wipe the sweat outta my eyes? How am I gonna stuff food in my mouth? How am I gonna enjoy the breeze? Bug season in the north - I would wear one. But as a section hiker, I can select un-buggy times for those areas.

[Dirty Paws]

Thanks so much for the education on southeast bugs-
Aside from ubiquitous mosquitoes I have memories of gnats & biting flies endlessly buzzing around being such an annoyance- but i've never experienced chiggers before.
Some people can tolerate bugs better than others; I suspect my bug annoyance threshold is on the low side. I'm going to go to Walmart to look for a bug net, get some permethrin, maybe even B1 patches.

Where I live now, in Colorado- no poison ivy, we get occasional swarms of mosquitoes or biting flies but its very localized- you can easily just hike out of it. The northeast has been in a drought- if that continues hopefully that'll reduce the bugs at least up there.

[Tipi Walter]

Yellow jackets sometimes - run away!


Yellow jacket nests can be a problem in the summer and especially in September and October when the temps start to cool. Some nests can be avoided by careful walking and scoping out the trail ahead as the nest hole can be seen, especially after a bear partially digs it out.

But most of the time the nest can't be seen until you get nailed. I was in Pisgah NF near Upper Creek in 2015 and did a cross-country bushwack with my butt-heavy pack and stepped over a blowdown on a godawful hill and 5 got me about the head and face---one on my ear lobe, little motards. Ironic that in 1985 near the same spot 5 other hornets nailed me on a bushwack up Burnthouse Creek.

The worst was heading out into the NC mountains back in the 1990s and bringing my favorite treat to pop open mid-trip: A can of Knudsen ginger ale. Sat down to take a break and popped open the can. A few minutes later I took a drink and a yellow jacket was in the can and went in my mouth and got me inside on the lower lip. zowie.

[illabelle]

Yellow jacket nests can be a problem in the summer and especially in September and October when the temps start to cool. Some nests can be avoided by careful walking and scoping out the trail ahead as the nest hole can be seen, especially after a bear partially digs it out.

But most of the time the nest can't be seen until you get nailed. I was in Pisgah NF near Upper Creek in 2015 and did a cross-country bushwack with my butt-heavy pack and stepped over a blowdown on a godawful hill and 5 got me about the head and face---one on my ear lobe, little motards. Ironic that in 1985 near the same spot 5 other hornets nailed me on a bushwack up Burnthouse Creek.

The worst was heading out into the NC mountains back in the 1990s and bringing my favorite treat to pop open mid-trip: A can of Knudsen ginger ale. Sat down to take a break and popped open the can. A few minutes later I took a drink and a yellow jacket was in the can and went in my mouth and got me inside on the lower lip. zowie.

hahahahahaha!
Oh wait, that actually sounds painful - but so funny.
hahahahahaha!

[bigcranky]

Ouch. The yellow jackets get testy in the fall.

We were doing a fall day hike years ago when my daughter was in middle school, up at Hanging Rock State Park. She was in the lead, and disturbed a yellow jacket nest and they started coming out -- I yelled for her to run and followed her as fast as possible. Luckily they didn't get her, but I had a bunch of stings, mostly on my exposed legs and my back. More than a dozen as a I recall. My wife, trailing behind me, had no problems at all.

The moral of this story is, Never Be Second In Line. :)

[la.lindsey]

I'm pretty allergic to mosquitoes and chiggers (was a real issue when I used to live in the deep woods of Alabama). I carry Deet in the summer and treat my clothes with permethrin, but don't bother with a head net. I don't think the bugs are even really that bad, but one mosquito bite will end up the size of a quarter on me, so it's worth the precaution.

I thought the gnats that get in your eyes were much worse up north, but frequently washing sweat off my face kept them away pretty well.

Yellow jackets in early fall though...I've heard first in line is fine, second may be in trouble, but third gets it bad. Then again, if there are hikers coming the other direction, your order will change.

I carry an itch eraser and a sting eraser with me in the summer. That plus deet and it's never bad enough that I feel like I HAVE to sleep in a tent instead of a shelter to escape bugs.


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[Tipi Walter]

Had a woman in Slickrock wilderness a couple years ago who got bee stung and went into shock. 12 guys from the Graham County rescue squad came out to rescue her and I was camped nearby so I got some pics---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/TRIP-137/i-NK3D2m2/0/L/TRIP%20137%20045-L.jpg
Woman is in the ATV (note her dog with pack)---She was about 3 miles from this spot for extraction. Now always carries an epipen.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/TRIP-137/i-tv7scJH/0/L/TRIP%20137%20040-L.jpg
Preparing the one-wheeled gurney.

[bigcranky]

One of my colleagues was on an outward bound trip with students years ago, and was up high on a ropes course when she was stung by a large hornet. She'd never had any issues with stings before that, but had a severe allergic reaction that took two epi-pens to stabilize, and she was SAR'd out and spent some time in the hospital.

My understanding is that one can be stung many times over the years with no reaction, then suddenly have a bad reaction with no warning.

She ended up being fine, luckily.

[Bansko]

This, plus I find wearing a headnet is hot and obscures my vision. I carried a headnet the entire length of the Long Trail in July and never once wore it, even with the annoying gnats dive bombing my eyes and ears.

You don't have to wear the headnet full face like a beekeeper. I wore it more like a food service worker, but covering my ears also. Just keeping those dive bombing b******s out of my ears and hair was a major success. Do what works and makes you comfortable.

[daddytwosticks]

You don't have to wear the headnet full face like a beekeeper. I wore it more like a food service worker, but covering my ears also. Just keeping those dive bombing b******s out of my ears and hair was a major success. Do what works and makes you comfortable.

I've also found that the noseeums would not bother me while actually on the move. Only when I stopped for breaks or to set up camp. Then the head net would go on. When it cools off in the evening or early morning, the noseeums were not a problem. :)

[JPritch]

Those damn gnats love my eyeballs and it drives me nuts! Then there is a fly that seems to be very territorial...it will continually buzz and hit your head for a certain radius. Would that be a black fly?

[illabelle]

Those damn gnats love my eyeballs and it drives me nuts! Then there is a fly that seems to be very territorial...it will continually buzz and hit your head for a certain radius. Would that be a black fly?

I don't think so. Your description reminds me of horse flies and a few other large usually solitary flies. Black flies are hungry clouds of suicidal bugs about the size of sweat bees, a bit bigger than a fat gnat. Unlike mosquitoes which tend to carefully light on your arm and seek out a good place for a meal, black flies land teeth first. When they land, you gotta kill fast. They don't much care what skin they land on - hairy, calloused, sweaty, whatever - if there's blood in there, they want it. They're pretty good at finding a meal in tender spots, like just under the edge of your sleeve, or next to your eye. Deet is said to be effective.
I found this article. Some of it seems a little overblown, like
There are records of both domestic animals and people being killed in a few hours through bites and blood loss. Death can result from suffocation as a result of plugged nasal or bronchial tubes and allergic reactions. but what do I know...?
http://sectionhiker.com/black-fly-season/

[Dirty Paws]

Thanks guys, Im the OP-
Aside from DEET- I just ordered some 10% permethrin that I'll dilute myself to working concentration 0f 0.5%. It looks like its way cheaper to do it this way than to buy the pre diluted Sawyer stuff.

I may also try the vitamin B1 patches to mask the CO2 in my breath. Getting a headnet too.

I'm probably going overboard with this but I remember trying to hike in the woods in Connecticut in June with all the deer flies, gnats....etc.

[rafe]

Best defense I've found for the noseeums is a pair of cheap, light plastic safety glasses from the hardware store. Bandana or hat for the rest of my head.

[glenlawson]

I've never had much of a problem with bugs on the AT in the south because so much of the trail is on ridgelines. When you get into lower spots, grassy spots, or sheltered wet areas, you are likely to get more mosquitos and such. Lower areas in the national forests can have a lot more mosquitoes and such, but you asked about the AT.

Mid to late summer you have to be on the lookout for yellow jackets and hornets. Most of the AT is busy enough that the wasps don't build right at the trail, but you have to be careful on side trails. Yellow jackets love the cavities under rocks where they are protected. Sometimes hornet nests will be low enough to be a nuisance.

One pest that that is left off this list is mice. Anywhere people have camped will have mice. They will chew through anything to get to your trail mix or trash. I keep all food and trash out of my tent and pack at night solely because of the mice.

[johnspenn]

Mosquitoes haven't been a problem in the N GA mountains for us so far. There are a few, especially around water, but not swarms of them like you hear about in some areas. We carry a little DEET based spray in hotter months.

Yellow jackets, as have been mentioned, can be a problem- my wife got stung 30 times up in the Cohuttas on a trip last year. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14nO4yNPix4)

There are gnats and they can be irritating. We carry head-nets from Walmart. I'd rather have the slightly uncomfortable headnet than have gnats flying in my eyes and ears. YMMV.

As always you have to be alert for ticks but thus far I haven't ever noticed a lot of tick activity. I imagine some years are worse than others.

[Francis Sawyer]

I find that the most pleasant bug deterrent is the smoke from a nice cigar. I prefer the St Louis Rey series G maduro . :cool:

[Puddlefish]

I started in the same timeframe. Didn't need my DEET for the first two months. I'd just buy some along the trail when you start to need it.

The third month some black flies showed up, but I found them far less aggressive than the NH black flies, Deet during the day, and had to make an effort to squish a few every night inside the tent, which wasn't that difficult since the pretty much flew to the top and waited to be squished.

I only made it to VA, I'd assume the bugs get worse the warmer and norther you get.

[johnnybgood]

Much of the bug/skeeter population is predicated on how wet and warm the Spring has been. If we have a wet warm Spring then expect a bug problem on the southern AT through the mid atlantic states. So far the lack of snow coupled with sparse rain here in Virginia this winter is keeping the water table below normal.
Guess we'll have to wait till the end of April early May to see how bad the bugs will be as the hot weather starts to settles in.

[pablo081002]

I live in SC and hike the GA to VA trail all the time. I spray my clothing with Sawyer's and then don't worry about bugs again. The only issue I have had with bugs on the AT was on tray mountain. Being from Michigan, there ARE no bugs here that bother you. On some other trails the ticks start to come out in late July unless you bushwhack a lot. Did get some poison ivey up after albert mt Somehow two yrs ago.

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[No1UKnow]

If you do go the permethrin route, the main thing is to get the correct type of permethrin and mix it correctly. Some has oil in it. I suggest the Martin's Permethrin 10%, by Control Solutions, Inc. UPC = 72693 45020. But don't take my word for it. Do some research. A 19:1 water to permethrin ratio is what you want, if you are mixing down 10% to .5%.

[OkeefenokeeJoe]

after the trees green, around mid May

Trees here in God's country (Southeast) are green WELL before mid-May.

OkeefenokeeJoe

[Tipi Walter]

hahahahahaha!
Oh wait, that actually sounds painful - but so funny.
hahahahahaha!

I spat the guy out and he limped away and I let him live because we both went thru hell.


Those damn gnats love my eyeballs and it drives me nuts! Then there is a fly that seems to be very territorial...it will continually buzz and hit your head for a certain radius. Would that be a black fly?

Backpacking Tip---Always carry a small tube of eye stye cream for that gnat that gets lodged in the eye or behind the eyeball for 3 days. The cream offers long-term relief until the bug comes out.




Yellow jackets, as have been mentioned, can be a problem- my wife got stung 30 times up in the Cohuttas on a trip last year. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14nO4yNPix4)



Good video as I always like vids of the mighty Cohutta. And especially the Connie!!

Remember, yellow jacket nests can often be seen beforehand with careful eyeball scanning and going slow on the trail. Once I backpacked down Slickrock Creek and avoided 6 active nests along the creek just by going slow and looking for them. My buddy came thru later and got nailed. Dogs ALWAYS get spooked by yellow jackets and will run like hell.

Panther Creek top is nice---a guy fell off there last year.