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Connie
03-17-2017, 20:27
Facebook group: "Backcountry Meal Planning for Thru Hikers" actively works on recipes and planning food for long trail thru hikers.

I saw this graphic poster there.

38624

Venchka
03-17-2017, 21:14
Thank you. Saved for printing and shopping.
Wayne


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Connie
03-17-2017, 22:03
I looked at the website. It is a resource.

http://www.trail.recipes/

Dogwood
03-17-2017, 22:08
I have to question a Table with the heading TOP 10 Hiking Foods - Highest In Calories with these items:

Rice 130 cal for 100 g(3.53 oz) serving - 36 cal/oz ratio
Pasta 158 cal in 100g serving - 44 cal/oz ratio Cous Cous is also a pasta but more dense and with a lower cal/oz ratio. Why isn't quinoa on this list as it supersedes the cal/oz and nutrients of these staples?

Red lentils 116 cal in 100 g serving - 32 cal/oz ratio
Tuna in oil 198 cal in 100 g serving - 56 cal/oz ratio
Apricots 250 cal in 100 g serving - 71 cal/oz
Salmon jerky 257 cal in 100 g serving - 72/cal/oz
Beef jerky 286 cal for 100 g serving - 81 cal/oz

These items(mostly single items, NOT many ingredient meals) might be popular but highest cal/oz ratios is questionable. Biggest help in the table from my perspective is to learn how to attempt to balance out a lower cal/oz ratio item with other much higher cal/oz and nutrient dense items to raise the overall cal/oz and nutrient density to meet individuals needs.

Connie
03-18-2017, 15:37
Dogwood. Let's make a better list.

That group has been making lists of calorie dense and nutrient dense.

I work on making those lists myself, however I do not have the software to do so.

The USDA has only limited software online and I do not have software that dietitians have.

There are some PDF's for download at that Facebook group "Files" section.

Dogwood
03-19-2017, 00:03
If bacon isn't going to make it high on the list prolly no one here will look at it. :D

Connie
03-19-2017, 00:16
I made a PDF Protein - all foods, for example, using the USDA National Nutrient Data Base.

I have no idea how to upload a PDF.

Feral Bill
03-19-2017, 00:41
I'm curious.. Are those calorie counts for dry foods, or for cooked, perhaps with added fat (butter). Straight carbs, such as rice, couscous, sugar, and oatmeal should all be very close to equal,.

Connie
03-19-2017, 04:26
This is what I use.
https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/

I do not see how to share PDF's here.

Connie
03-28-2017, 22:18
Protein Top 10

egg whites, stabilized, glucose reduced
egg substitute powder
tofu, dried
peanut flour, defatted
soy flour, soy meal
seeds, sesame, flour
egg whole dried
protein substitute, milk based powder
parmesan cheese
bacon



Kcal Top 10

bacon
ghee (butter oil)
pork, variety meats
beef, variety meats
nuts: macadamia, pecans, pine nuts, brazil nuts, hickory nuts, walnuts, hazelnuts, filberts
butter, whipped
coconut meat
egg yolk, dried
pork, variety meats
peanut spread


Bacon made the Top 10 in both lists.

I purchased Bacon Jerky, and it was delicious.

Venchka
03-28-2017, 22:21
If bacon isn't going to make it high on the list prolly no one here will look at it. :D

Keep dreaming.
Wayne


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Venchka
03-28-2017, 22:27
Connie,
Which brand of Bacon Jerky did you purchase? Not all brands are equal.
Thanks!
Wayne


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Connie
03-28-2017, 22:40
Aaron Owens made a list of commercially available meals by Kcal/oz over at Facebook: Backcountry Meal Planning for Thru Hikers

Here are the top of the list commercial trail meals: Kcal/oz

Backpacker's Pantry, Sante Fe Style Rice w/Chicken
AlpineAire, Black Bart Chili with Beef and Beans
Backpacker's Pantry, Kung Pao Rice w/Chicken
Backpacker's Pantry, Lasagne
AlpineAire, Mountain Chili
Trailtopia, Pesto Chicken Pasta
PackIt Gourmet, All American Works Burger (needs tortillas)
PackIt Gourmet, Pizza Margarita Wrap (needs tortillas)
Mountain House, Macaroni & Cheese
Backyard Pantry, Pad Thai
Backyard Pantry, Katmandu Curry
Backyard Pantry, Pesto Salmon w Pasta
Backyard Pantry, Fettuccini Alfredo w/Chicken
Mountain House, Lasagna with Beef

1 per week is about it for me, and Mountain House Pro Pak Lasagna w/Beef is a favorite.

I also look over PackIt Gourmet entrees and soups.

I add olive oil packets or carry a small (non-glass) container of olive oil to every dish.

If tired of olive oil, add salad dressing packets.

Connie
03-28-2017, 22:42
Oberto All Natural Bacon Jerky

Connie
03-28-2017, 22:46
This is Aaron Owens blog: https://thetrek.co/pacific-crest-trail/crunch-time-for-the-foodie/

Venchka
03-29-2017, 08:08
Oberto All Natural Bacon Jerky

Thanks!
Wayne


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Venchka
03-29-2017, 08:12
Connie and Everyone,
I recently saw individual serving packs of coconut oil at my favorite Alternative Food store. On my backpacking shopping list.
Wayne


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russb
03-30-2017, 09:16
Facebook group: "Backcountry Meal Planning for Thru Hikers" actively works on recipes and planning food for long trail thru hikers.

I saw this graphic poster there.

38624

Connie,

Would you be so kind as to ask an admin at that fB group to approve my join request. Thank you.

RockDoc
03-30-2017, 15:09
You should look at more than calories/oz. Consider how your body uses those calories. It uses sugar differently than beef jerky.
Some pretty high calorie foods are boderline toxic, besides lacking nutrition. Sorry, snickers.

PennyPincher
03-30-2017, 20:11
You should look at more than calories/oz. Consider how your body uses those calories. It uses sugar differently than beef jerky.
Some pretty high calorie foods are boderline toxic, besides lacking nutrition. Sorry, snickers.

THANK YOU! at least one other person agrees with me a little on this point.

Honestly, I try not to preach about food and nutrition but I just shake my head when I see the meals people eat.

Connie
04-12-2017, 07:01
More is considered. I choose low glycemic index sweeteners myself, although I am not a diabetic I learn a lot about food from others. I prefer Mahadavi light agave syrup, a low glycemic index sweetener if any.

If I want something sweet, I think of fruit like dried mango, raisins, or dates and then only very little. I use very little jerky as well, because commercial jerky is far too salty.

edit: The shelf-stable NoneSuch condensed mincemeat provides sweet taste.

I like the bacon jerky I mentioned because so little is required for full flavor, same with Jack Links Sriracha beef jerky I also like in small amounts at a time. I especially like the flavor kick it gives other food. I recently found Sriracha packets at DutchWare Gear, and McCormicks brand has Sriracha that is easily brought backpacking.

I did not intend the lists to be Top 10 what to carry in your backpack. My intention was only to draw attention to looking at food carried as Kcal/oz, protein/oz, and nutrition/oz in terms of weight and volume carried in the backpack. Aaron Owens is a registered dietition in profession and prepared for the PCT iand is hiking the PCT right now doing that, so I invited attention to her. How that goes for her is interesting to me. At one point, she posted her adapted recipe list, and I am eager to see the full recipes of what worked well for her thru hike.

I posted the thread to draw attention to Aaron Owens effort, and to the Facebook group Backcountry Meal Planning for Thru Hikers.

There is also Facebook Dehydrating Divas & Dudes, that answers a lot of questions to make your own backpacking convenient food supplies.

Not everyone has town resupply near their hikes, and more than a few hikers like to stay out longer than a 3-day weekend or 4-5 days.

Connie
04-12-2017, 07:06
Cooking with Herbs, Spices and Seasonings is another Facebook group I find helpful in my getting more nutrition into my backpacking food provisions. I thought I could cook before. I am learning so much more simple ingredients excellent food I can, myself, put together.

Connie
04-12-2017, 23:40
Pinterest has a category: Backpacking and Camping Food

Dogwood
04-13-2017, 00:59
This is Aaron Owens blog: https://thetrek.co/pacific-crest-trail/crunch-time-for-the-foodie/

Thank you or all the links. I really like Aaron's food creativity and tasty sounding trail food.

fiddlehead
04-13-2017, 03:00
What am I missing here?
I didn't know what kcal's were, so i looked it up.
It says: one kcal is equivalant to one calorie.
Then it says: for example: 6kcals = 6 calories.
Help?
what is a kcal please?
What's the difference between kcals and calories?

Leo L.
04-13-2017, 06:21
1kcal = 1000cal
Cal is an old unit that basically is defined by the amount of energy necessary to raise the temp of 1g water by 1°C. This always has been a rough definition only, and since the late 40ies the modern and precisely defined Joule is available, its usage mandatory since the late 90ies.

Its just an old habit that everybody still uses cal or kcal resp. Cal usually is just a sloppy expression for kcal.

Typical usage of humans is 2000kcal for a normal day, and up to 4000 for high performance activity.

colorado_rob
04-13-2017, 08:36
Just a few more words on kcal's..... A food "calorie" (a kcal) is a lot of energy actually.... a single food calorie is equivalent to 3085 foot-pounds of energy. So, 100 food calories, a very light snack (one or two cookies) is enough energy, if converted to work, could raise a small car 100 feet in the air. Just sayin'.

Imagine now how much physical work a big mac could do?

Grampie
04-13-2017, 09:26
This information is fine for a short hike or a section hike but for a thru-hike its not worth the effort. My thru-hike philosophy is to eat well in town stops. Take a few fresh items for the first day after resupplying in town and take a lot of high calorie junk food. Little Debbie stuff is just loaded with calories. You just can't eat right to replenish the calories you burn hiking.

Leo L.
04-13-2017, 09:28
So, when you'd need 2000kcal for the pure survival, and you'd consume 4000kcal, you had an excess of 2000kcal, which would enable you to lift10 small cars 100ft in the air (estimated efficiency of the human body 50%)?

colorado_rob
04-13-2017, 09:57
So, when you'd need 2000kcal for the pure survival, and you'd consume 4000kcal, you had an excess of 2000kcal, which would enable you to lift10 small cars 100ft in the air (estimated efficiency of the human body 50%)? Was that a question? I agree on the 50%, good first estimate for our body's efficiency.... but yeah, sounds right, my point is that there is a lot of equivalent work in a simple food calorie.


This information is fine for a short hike or a section hike but for a thru-hike its not worth the effort. My thru-hike philosophy is to eat well in town stops. Take a few fresh items for the first day after resupplying in town and take a lot of high calorie junk food. Little Debbie stuff is just loaded with calories. You just can't eat right to replenish the calories you burn hiking. That's my modus operandi as well, except not the little-debbie thing... I like candy bars and potato chips better, just personal preference. Junk calories work just fine on the trail, despite all the hype about "proper nutrition".

Odd Man Out
04-13-2017, 10:34
Here is what I do to assess calorie density and nutritional variety. Look at the product label to get serving size (in g), as well as g fat, g carb, and g protein per serving.

Subtract g fat, g carb, g protein from serving size. This will tell you the grams of water per serving (not on the label). It is sometimes surprising to find how much water is actually in the food that you thought was dehydrated. I know there are other ingredients (fiber, salts, vitamins, minerals), but their effect on calorie density is minimal. WRT pack weight, also consider packaging mass.

Usually you will find carbs and protein will predominate so I start at 4 cal/g. Any fat (at 9 cal/g) will increase calorie density. Water (at 0 cal/g) lowers it. I Also not all foods are metabolized the same, but again, for a quick estimate, this formula is convenient. Of course you can always just divide cal/serving by g/serving to get cal/g, but breaking down by nutrient helps me balance things.

Agree with Dogwood about blending your own ingredients. My favorite trail food is simple: red lentils, basmati rice, olive oil, salt, curry powder, extra turmeric (for it's anti-inflammatory properties, but be prepared to have everything turn orange). Optional: supplement with dehydrated vegetables and/or dehydrated meat. Bring to boil, let set 15 min.

Leo L.
04-13-2017, 12:08
Was that a question? I agree on the 50%, good first estimate for our body's efficiency.... but yeah, sounds right, my point is that there is a lot of equivalent work in a simple food calorie.

...

I think in your calculation/estimation is a error by factor 1000.

100kcal (thats 100 food calories) is 418Joule.
To lift a small car 100feet up you need roughly 400,000Joule, or 400kJ.
Anybody correct me if I'm wrong please.

colorado_rob
04-13-2017, 12:14
Was that a question? I agree on the 50%, good first estimate for our body's efficiency.... but yeah, sounds right, my point is that there is a lot of equivalent work in a simple food calorie.

...

I think in your calculation/estimation is a error by factor 1000.

100kcal (thats 100 food calories) is 418Joule.
To lift a small car 100feet up you need roughly 400,000Joule, or 400kJ.
Anybody correct me if I'm wrong please. Nope, sorry, pretty sure I have it right. I never use Joules, ya know us silly americans, so I don't have a feel for those units.

Anyway, here's a link:

https://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-energy-from-kcal-to-ftlb.html

Foot-pounds are easy and intuitive (again, to us Americans...), raise 1 pound 1 foot, and voila, one foot pound!

And since 1 KCAL (1 food calorie) = 3088 foot-pounds (see link), 1 food calorie will raise a car 1 foot, hence 100 food calories (KCAL's) will raise said car 100 feet. It really is amazing how much energy a food calorie is.

Dogwood
04-13-2017, 12:31
Thank you Connie for the links.

Really enjoyed having you share Aaron's professional Nutritionist's trail food options.

Food is more than calories. Energizing is more than calories. Well being is more than calories. This is clearly scientifically evident. It clearly is to those concerned about physical, emotional and mental well being and those excelling as athletes. If food is just calories we would observe more hikers carrying nothing but EVOO, ghee, coconut oil, or some form of just fat. Not pretty witnessing someone routinely vomit, get sick, have stomach pains, constant diarrhea, have low energy levels, and having various body injuries attempting to subsist on squeezable margarine resembling cottage cheese. All calories and all foods are not created equal which I thought Connie's posting of the graph was depicting. "We've all heard the term empty calories and junk foods. It refers to sources of foods/food like substances that bring no real nutrition to the table...Case in point? A can of soda and 4 oz skinned chicken breast have about the same number of calories but one is pure sugar and the other is loaded with protein. Invest in your calories wisely."

colorado_rob
04-13-2017, 13:15
... A can of soda and 4 oz skinned chicken breast have about the same number of calories but one is pure sugar and the other is loaded with protein. Invest in your calories wisely." Yeah, but the thing is you'd be better served saving that yummy chicken for the evening, and eating soft carbs (not soda though, the carbonation is weird during hiking) when hiking. Tons of articles out there basically saying protein is the least desireable energy source to eat DURING exercise, here's one after quick s

http://www.virtualmedstudent.com/links/healthy_living/understanding_how_the_body_burns_carbs_proteins_fa ts_simple.html

One excerpt:

"The third and final fuel is protein. The body rarely burns protein as its sole fuel source, and when it does it is usually under conditions of starvation. Interestingly, when no carbohydrate is present in the diet, the body will use the amino acid backbones of protein to form glucose (a carbohydrate) in order to supply the brain with adequate energy.

It was once thought that protein provided the energy that athletes used during exercise. This was the basis behind the “steak-and-eggs” breakfast prior to an athletic event. This has fallen out of favor as biochemists (and athletes) now realize that the body prefers to burn carbohydrates, then fat, and finally protein if all else fails. "

My climbing mentor, who is also a professional nutritionist basically coaches his students to go ahead and eat soft/hard carbs (a nice mix) on the trail, saving most of your proteins and fats for dinner. One reason he claims to avoid protein as an immediate energy source is that it creates some formaldehyde-type by-products when burned, basically proteins burn "dirty". I cannot find anything to back that up online, but I take his word for it.

Odd Man Out
04-13-2017, 13:16
What am I missing here?
I didn't know what kcal's were, so i looked it up.
It says: one kcal is equivalant to one calorie.
Then it says: for example: 6kcals = 6 calories.
Help?
what is a kcal please?

What's the difference between kcals and calories?

Traditionally, a dietary Calorie (which is 1000 calories or 1 kcal) is capitalized and written with an uppercase C whereas a "regular" calorie is written with a lower case c. But as you can see from these posts (including mine :mad:) people don't always follow that convention. You just have to figure it out from the context.

Odd Man Out
04-13-2017, 13:45
Nope, sorry, pretty sure I have it right. I never use Joules, ya know us silly americans, so I don't have a feel for those units.

Anyway, here's a link:

https://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-energy-from-kcal-to-ftlb.html

Foot-pounds are easy and intuitive (again, to us Americans...), raise 1 pound 1 foot, and voila, one foot pound!

And since 1 KCAL (1 food calorie) = 3088 foot-pounds (see link), 1 food calorie will raise a car 1 foot, hence 100 food calories (KCAL's) will raise said car 100 feet. It really is amazing how much energy a food calorie is.

US units suck. Here it is in proper units:

The mass of a Honda Fit is about 1200 kg. Let's lift that a distance of 30 m. The acceleration of gravity is 9.80665 m/s^2. F=ma=11,778 N (i.e. kg-m/s^2). Work=Fd=353039 J (i.e. kg-m^2/s^2) = 353 kJ = 84.4 kcal.

So to lift 10 cars you need 844 kcal. If you engine is only 50% efficient, you need to feed it twice that or 1688 kcal (or 1688 food Calories).

Remind me. Why are we lifting cars?

colorado_rob
04-13-2017, 13:52
US units suck. Here it is in proper units:

The mass of a Honda Fit is about 1200 kg. Let's lift that a distance of 30 m. The acceleration of gravity is 9.80665 m/s^2. F=ma=11,778 N (i.e. kg-m/s^2). Work=Fd=353039 J (i.e. kg-m^2/s^2) = 353 kJ = 84.4 kcal.

So to lift 10 cars you need 844 kcal. If you engine is only 50% efficient, you need to feed it twice that or 1688 kcal (or 1688 food Calories).

Remind me. Why are we lifting cars?Agree on the US units sucking, but alas, we tried to change, too much weird resistance, so we're kinda stuck... thankfully I worked in metric units about half of my engineering career. I still think a "foot-pound" is awfully darn intuitive, no need for gravity or equations, etc.

We're "lifting cars" just to make a point about the amazing amount of energy in a food calorie.

But we're not lifting 10 cars, just one, so your result for one car is 168 calories, but it's a lighter car (1200 KG = about 2500 pounds, my example was 3088 pounds). And I agree on the 50% efficiency, so basically, thanks, you confirmed my 200 calories (at 50%) to lift one single 3088 pound car 100 feet. I Was beginning to doubt myself after Leo's post, but he got his KCAL to Joule thing way off (1 KCAL = 4187 joules); his conversion was off by 1000 (he quoted 100 Kcal per 418 joules).

Leo L.
04-13-2017, 14:44
Sorry, I was wrong with factor 1000.

Now we just have to invent a carlift where you can stick in a snickers bar and it will lift the car for changing the tires.

Venchka
04-13-2017, 15:23
...and the most calorie rich nuts are:
Macadamia, 204/oz. followed very closely by dry roasted pecans, 201/oz.
Wayne


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rocketsocks
04-13-2017, 15:35
US units suck. Here it is in proper units:

The mass of a Honda Fit is about 1200 kg. Let's lift that a distance of 30 m. The acceleration of gravity is 9.80665 m/s^2. F=ma=11,778 N (i.e. kg-m/s^2). Work=Fd=353039 J (i.e. kg-m^2/s^2) = 353 kJ = 84.4 kcal.

So to lift 10 cars you need 844 kcal. If you engine is only 50% efficient, you need to feed it twice that or 1688 kcal (or 1688 food Calories).

Remind me. Why are we lifting cars?so we can rebuild china

Dogwood
04-13-2017, 17:41
The point being made saying, "A can of soda and 4 oz skinned chicken breast have about the same number of calories but one is pure sugar and the other is loaded with protein. Invest in your calories wisely", is to counter the idea that food is simply calories and that calories within the matrix of food are all the same acting upon our bodies, minds, and emotions equally based on the same caloric content...I thought that it was obvious I was not hyping protein. Some in the hiking community have a belief, a feeling, that junk food is OK and is no longer going to act as junk food empty calorie food products simply because the higher caloric needs of hikers.

If we observe those engaged in activities where performance, endurance, health, and well being are the goal that consume similar calories as LD hikers like triathletes or some Olympic and Professional athletic competitors we will note optimal nutrition plays a key role in obtaining the desired outcomes. What I suppose it comes down to is do we desire to excel at what we engage, aim to intentionally opt to consume nutrient dense real foods to support our well being to the best of our ability, or do we desire to just make do, get by, believing empty calorie food products are "just fine?"...which often are off trail junk food dietary habits that are now applied to trail activities? NOTE: you do not need to be an aspiring athlete or FKTer to desire being healthy and have optimal well being as your goal.

Of course eat what you want but expecting to indiscriminately consume anything will always result in the same impacts in terms of energy output, endurance, cognitive ability, joint and musculoskeletal condition, decreased inflammation, obesity and weight control, eating disorders, digestive system health, immunology(increasing body of evidence that relates nutrition to health of the immune system spurring a new sub branch of medicine - Nutritional Immunology), cardiovascular disease, liver disease, diabetes, stroke, various cancers, fatigue, digest ...is a misconception. It's a misconception that so many now having health problems are finally recognizing...sometimes only after it's too late.

Written by a nephew who attended a beloved Uncle's funeral recently because he ate himself into an early grave. Perhaps worse, he had limited vitality during most of his life because of indiscriminate "I'm just enjoying myself" consumption.

AllDownhillFromHere
04-13-2017, 17:53
This information is fine for a short hike or a section hike but for a thru-hike its not worth the effort. My thru-hike philosophy is to eat well in town stops. Take a few fresh items for the first day after resupplying in town and take a lot of high calorie junk food. Little Debbie stuff is just loaded with calories. You just can't eat right to replenish the calories you burn hiking.

Same here. Apples and roma tomatoes for the first 2 days out, then high calorie, sometimes junk, food for fuel. Salad and yogurt in town.

Connie
05-20-2017, 00:38
Had to get off the trail due to a shoulder injury. Headed for the AT to flip-flop.

Here is her update, with a report.

https://thetrek.co/pacific-crest-trail/ultralight-meal-planning-makeover/