View Full Version : My absolute nightmare experience with John Stultz and bearpaw wilderness designs!
First off let me say that I hate to be that guy…the guy that bitches he didn’t get his way and that life is unfair. Instead I will simply tell you my story, and allow you to make your own decisions about doing business with Bearpaw Wilderness Designs. Let me say that throughout the years I have bought gear from just about every manufacturer around, cottage or otherwise, and I have never had an experience turn out this way…ever. So here goes…I inquired about ordering a net tent from John Stultz at Bearpaw Wilderness Designs on March 9, after some email correspondance I made my purchase of a net tent 2 in .74 cuben on March 10. I have copies of all of the emails showing I wanted a standard length/width/height tent with the only change being the wall would be an “a” frame rather than having an extended lower wall. I also have email correspondance from John stating the product will weigh 13 oz. I was crystal clear in what I was asking for. There are also several pictures on the Bearpaw Wilderness website that show the weights and dimensions of their products, as well as quality finished work. Well…I received the tent today, March 18, and right off the bat noticed that the edges of the bottom were not sewn or properly sealed, but instead were simply folded over and taped. They were taped completely crooked and twisted and the added tieouts were also placed in a position that would make pulling the edges out in a bathtub impossible. The tape literally looks like duct tape, not the normal cuben tape you see, and it was also coming off and not sticking at all in several spots. This was not how anything was finished in pictures on their website. I was shocked, this literally looks like a failed myog project, it is beyond half assed! So…I then put it on my scale and it weighed 15oz, not the 13oz I was quoted per the email correspondance. This may not seem like a big deal, but I paid an extra $110 to have this product made with the lighter material as I had back surgery and every oz counts to me. I then measured the length at 84″ rather than the standard 86″ per the website…not a big deal as I am not 7′ tall. I then measured the height at 37″ rather than the standard 40″ per the website…this is a big deal as it will not allow me to situp in it and this is something I specifically mentioned in our email correspondance. Then lastly the width was measured at 48″ rather than the 52″ per the website…this again makes it unusable to me due to the fact that 2 pads at 25″ per pad is 50″…so 2 people’s pads will not fit in their 2 person shelter! I have saved all email correspondance showing exactly what I ordered. I do have the product here and will show pictures of the incorrect specs and horrendous quality. What makes me so irate is the fact that I sent an email to John specifically telling him what I wanted and when I told him after I received it the specs were not correct he told me it was custom….sorry…when my email specifically instructed him to build it standard length/width/height. I also informed him that the quality was so bad that it is not usable, that it was simply folded over and taped with what looks like duct tape. I then sent him pictures showing how crooked and twisted the tape job was and that it is completely unacceptable. In the end he told me that it was a quality built product and that he will not refund my money. I will get my money refunded through my credit card company, but that is not the point. The point is that the specs were so off it makes it unusable for me…the quality I cannot even begin to tell you how bad this is, it looks like a 5 year old did it…and paying an extra $110 for .74 cuben netted me less than 1oz savings over their listed 16oz for 30d silnylon…I am not a math guru but something is not adding up. I have given John every opportunity to make this right, and he has refused to stand by his product specs and more importantly the quality of his product that has his name on it…which incidentally is also sewed on crooked. Standby for pictures and video…you will not believe that this was sent to me in this condition and John at Bearpaw Wilderness calls it not only acceptable, but quality work! This was my first and last time doing business with Bearpaw Wilderness Designs…I will stick with Mountain Laurel Designs, Six Moon Designs, Zpacks, Hyperlite Mountain Gear, and other reputable companies that have provided me with a quality product that they stood by!
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Video Link: https://vimeo.com/209045554 What makes me so angry is I have a completely unusable, jokingly bad, not close to specs, half-assed built product that I paid $255 for and an owner of a company that quite frankly couldn’t care less. Hopefully this will let others know to make other decisions and not roll the dice with this guy John and his company Bearpaw Wilderness Designs. I don’t get mad often at all, but this whole situation is so ridiculous I feel compelled to let others know what occured. The pictures and video (link below) can’t describe how awful the quality and utter lack of care that was put into this product is…extra material just folded over and taped to the top and attached crooked rather than properly finishing it..I’m still honestly blown away it was such absolute garbage!
I have been "that guy" nevertheless it is better to tell it like it is.
MuddyWaters
03-19-2017, 08:17
Bearpaw has never been a "tier 1" gear producer.
Their gear has a well known reputation for being serviceable
But not the best designs. With crooked stitching, etc. Wrinkles when pitched. I.e innaccurate measuring, cutting, and sewing.
Very, very little high end cuben shelter work goes their way for these reasons.
Custom net tents tents are a niche, because it dont matter, and they can deliver in reasonable time.
Wts cannot be guaranteed from any producer due to material supply variations. Custom gear especially cannot.
You can find complaints about every mfg weights vs expected.
Sizes...can depend on where and how measured. But if its really off of what was ordered, you are 100% correct to return it and rescind payment if he wont work with you. Construction is debateable.
fastfoxengineering
03-19-2017, 08:20
The fact that he's not willing to work with you shows more about his character than anything. And it's posts like these that can cripple a company. Sorry about your situation. How will bear paw compete with all of the other fantastic cottage companies with an attitude like that.
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I feel for you. If you order and pay for a customized item, which has a reason and purpose behind it, then it should be made as requested. You have every right to complain as it appears they don't have quality control and leave this function up to customers. I suggest you keep up your correspondence and submit your above thread to him. Pressure does pay dividends.
If you you think you have a problem, mine is more hallucinogenic. My orders from Amazon, Backcountry and ZPaks were delivered correctly and with speed. Impressed! My large order with Tradeinn, a company in Spain, was weird to say the least. After much correspondence in Spanish, and finally English that occasionally centered around me asking when would my order be delivered, and them responding along the lines of "The tree is green", I finally discovered that they had sent my order off to some stranger in Canada. As much as Canada is a lovely place, I live in Africa, a few thousand miles in the opposite direction. Unsure if they randomly picked a spot off a map and sat back to see where their experiment would take them. After many more emails, and getting to know their staff very well, I was informed my order is now on its way to me. Holding my breath.
My other order with Fruugo is also taking forever and a day. Might be easier flying or walking there and collecting it
Video Link: https://vimeo.com/209045554 What makes me so angry is I have a completely unusable, jokingly bad, not close to specs, half-assed built product that I paid $255 for and an owner of a company that quite frankly couldn’t care less. Hopefully this will let others know to make other decisions and not roll the dice with this guy John and his company Bearpaw Wilderness Designs. I don’t get mad often at all, but this whole situation is so ridiculous I feel compelled to let others know what occured. The pictures and video (link below) can’t describe how awful the quality and utter lack of care that was put into this product is…extra material just folded over and taped to the top and attached crooked rather than properly finishing it..I’m still honestly blown away it was such absolute garbage!
Recording video in portrait mode is your first mistake.
Maineiac64
03-19-2017, 08:49
That sucks. Hope you find a great alternative and you will be happy in the end.
That tent looks like it is complete junk! Lesson learned: Stick with well known respected companies with good solid reviews. Thank Goodness you used a credit card:sun
SWODaddy
03-19-2017, 10:44
Glad you posted this. I had no idea what their reputation was. Almost bought a net tent from them a year or two ago.
saltysack
03-19-2017, 10:45
Should have had Ron @ MLD make it....only kidding that's ridiculous...hike you get it resolved...
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saltysack
03-19-2017, 10:45
Hope....
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left52side
03-19-2017, 11:02
Well I hope this gets resolved for you.
I am leary now as I just mailed my hexamid off to have A permiter net put along the bottom of it.
Sure hope it doesnt get screwed up.
rocketsocks
03-19-2017, 12:44
But for the wrong weight and size, I don't get crazy with that other stuff, but then it's not mine.
ScareBear
03-19-2017, 13:15
But for the wrong weight and size, I don't get crazy with that other stuff, but then it's not mine.
Who knows what the footprint of that tent was the moment it left the table? It may have been close to or on the specs. My first issue is with your weight spec. Did you spec the shelter weight to INCLUDE the stuff sack? I noticed you measured on scale with stuffsack, what does the stuffsack weigh. Also, did it come with lines? Lines are often excluded from weight calcs.
Second, Cuben is notorious for "shrinking". This is due to the fabric's "footprint" being reduced by thousands of crease wrinkles. Some of the wrinkles become permanent. While the overall sew job wasn't the neatest, cleanest or prettiest, so long as the tape is effective, it's a cosmetic vs. performance issue, IMHO. Look, I'm not standing up for this guy, I doubt I would buy anything that appeared so MYOG as this, but I think you got dang close to what you paid for. However, the size is off sufficiently upon delivery to you that on that issue you prevail. This guy should have just cut the footprint 10 percent longer to prevent any complaints about shrinkage. Maybe 15 percent...anyway, you deserve a refund on that issue, at least.
Perhaps it would behoove you to consult with reputable custom Cuben shops for what you need. MLD is the only one that comes to mind, since Zpacks stopped custom work. I'd say contact Lukes, but they've stopped taking all orders until Monday and I have no idea if they would do a custom with their current demand.
Good luck! HYOH! YMMV!
ScareBear
03-19-2017, 13:20
And, while I understand your need for light weight, with a tarp, what does this rig come out to? 23 ounces? One ounce is 1/23, 2 ounces is less than 10 percent...much less...carry one ounce less water...there...problem solved!
Puddlefish
03-19-2017, 14:06
Wrinkle shrinkage of the floor doesn't begin to cover the incorrect dimensions. Simple geometry there. If only the floor shrunk, then the height would have increased, not decreased.
Here is an up close shot of the horrendous quality product I received from Bearpaw Wilderness Designs…
https://youtu.be/X0UnyXDuQH8
glassman
03-19-2017, 22:54
Bogus!
Kinda looks like you'd do better with tyvex and a sewing kit then seam sealer and 4 hours.
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I initially assumed you were over reacting until looking at those pictures. That's truly atrocious work. Hopefully they won't be in business to sell this junk much longer.
capehiker
03-20-2017, 10:15
I initially assumed you were over reacting until looking at those pictures. That's truly atrocious work. Hopefully they won't be in business to sell this junk much longer.
It would be nice but I doubt it. He's been pulling these stunts for years.
rocketsocks
03-20-2017, 10:46
Here is an up close shot of the horrendous quality product I received from Bearpaw Wilderness Designs…
https://youtu.be/X0UnyXDuQH8I get what your saying...perhaps that fold reduces a cut and seal and sewing where a stress point is??? But I'm no seamstress.
Sorry to hear about your experience. Most cottage manufacturers take great pride in their quality and back up what they make. He's not one if them.
I am sure there has been bad customer support and it seems the seller has done a lousy job. But using "absolute nightmare" is well let's say too absolute. It is a bad job . absolute nightmare is something that should be absolute and a nightmare. A hiker who watches another hiker falls to his death is an absolute nightmare. Your defective product is not absolute nightmare, is it?
I am sure there has been bad customer support and it seems the seller has done a lousy job. But using "absolute nightmare" is well let's say too absolute. It is a bad job . absolute nightmare is something that should be absolute and a nightmare. A hiker who watches another hiker falls to his death is an absolute nightmare. Your defective product is not absolute nightmare, is it?
You're correct. It is a "relative nightmare" not an "absolute nightmare" but he did not beg the question so kudos for that. :)
I am sure there has been bad customer support and it seems the seller has done a lousy job. But using "absolute nightmare" is well let's say too absolute. It is a bad job . absolute nightmare is something that should be absolute and a nightmare. A hiker who watches another hiker falls to his death is an absolute nightmare. Your defective product is not absolute nightmare, is it?
So if I understand youncorrectly, it would only be an absolute nightmare if the Credit Card Company did not honor the charge back request.
Is is a given they will on a custom item?
So if I understand youncorrectly, it would only be an absolute nightmare if the Credit Card Company did not honor the charge back request.
Is is a given they will on a custom item?
I did not get what you are trying to say but what credit card company does or does not do has nothing to do with my comment.
Your comment is a bit pedantic, no?
rocketsocks
03-21-2017, 12:25
More like a cat nap, and not one of rip van winkle ones, more like a 20 min power nap, but again, it's not my tent.
DuneElliot
03-21-2017, 15:25
So glad I didn't order a tarp from them now. I was always wary.
left52side
03-21-2017, 16:07
So glad I didn't order a tarp from them now. I was always wary.
I just sent my hexamid off to him to have him put perimeter netting along the bottom so it would be like the SMD deshutes plus shelter.
He emailed me today letting me know it was going into the mail toady so ill see in a couple of days.
Will give an honest review when I receive it,and hoping since it was an easy custom job there wont be any issues with it.
We shall see.
You sent a ZPacks Hexamid to Bearpaw for modification?
cmoulder
03-21-2017, 16:46
I just sent my hexamid off to him to have him put perimeter netting along the bottom so it would be like the SMD deshutes plus shelter.
He emailed me today letting me know it was going into the mail toady so ill see in a couple of days.
Will give an honest review when I receive it,and hoping since it was an easy custom job there wont be any issues with it.
We shall see.
You sent a ZPacks Hexamid to Bearpaw for modification?
At least he'll get to see an example of something that's done well... before he mangles it. :eek:
But it's like sending your Ferrari to the kid down the street who fixes lawn mowers part time. I've always had the impression of BWD as more for the 'axe-and-Bowie-knife' types.
left52side
03-21-2017, 16:52
You sent a ZPacks Hexamid to Bearpaw for modification?
Well yes I did because Zpacks no longer handles custom work,and he was the only one I could find to put A perimeter net along the bottom of said tarp.
But it's like sending your Ferrari to the kid down the street who fixes lawn mowers part time.
Harsh.... But if thats the case then lesson learned.
Well yes I did because Zpacks no longer handles custom work,and he was the only one I could find to put A perimeter net along the bottom of said tarp.
Harsh.... But if thats the case then lesson learned.
i wouldn't worry cmoulder is just being mean:0) he lives on the wrong side of the state
thom
i wouldn't worry cmoulder is just being mean:0) he lives on the wrong side of the state
thom
wasn't he just showing off a brand new tarptent? Kinda like showing off your new chevy :D
left52side
03-21-2017, 19:25
i wouldn't worry cmoulder is just being mean:0) he lives on the wrong side of the state
thom
LOL No worries I know how some folks seem to be.... If John manages to botch up something as simple as A perimeter netting then I will not plan to have him do any more work for me.
Some folks just have A certain way of voicing there opinions , and we all know the saying about opinions :p
cmoulder
03-21-2017, 19:54
wasn't he just showing off a brand new tarptent? Kinda like showing off your new chevy :D
Nope. Maybe you're thinking of the LHG Solo? Impeccable quality, that one, with excellent and quick service. However a friend of mine recently got a TT Protrail and that one also is top-notch quality.
The pressure is really on for BPW to produce a straight stitch! :)
cmoulder
03-21-2017, 20:26
i wouldn't worry cmoulder is just being mean:0) he lives on the wrong side of the state
thom
Sorry, I'll use more smiley faces next time! :D
But I did work in federal law enforcement in NYC for 30 years so there's perhaps a certain edge there. LOL. :)
And I'm on Carl Paladino's email list, which should tell you something... if I had my pick I'd take Chaumont over Chappaqua any day. ;)
left52side
03-21-2017, 20:27
Nope. Maybe you're thinking of the LHG Solo? Impeccable quality, that one, with excellent and quick service. However a friend of mine recently got a TT Protrail and that one also is top-notch quality.
Oh you mean two of the (although great companies) that dont work in cuben fiber or do any custom work....
But they do make some nice tents for what they are,IMO on the heavy side for todays standards but non the less quality sil nylon shelters.
In my opinion(which again we all know what they say about opinions) is comparing A sil shelter to A cuben shelter,or fornthat matter work done on them is like comparing apples to oranges,or as you would say a Ferrari to A lawn mower. :p
It really is to bad BPWD seems to have dropped off of the quality for sure and hoping my hexamid is ok ,It is in the mail and will receive it in A couple of days so A full review will be done upon its arrival.
It is to bad OP had this experience with A cottage company like this,but like them I to read several reviews online including one from hiking dude.As well as many other known long distance hikers and they had nothing bad to say about the company.
I myself searched around for someone to do the modification on my hexamid and came down to two options one being BPWD and the other from Ron at MLD ,which was my first option but his lead time on custom work was to far out for my trip,so I chose john at BPWD after reading online some reviews and etc.
It is however A shame this happened and hopefully it will get resolved.
cmoulder
03-21-2017, 20:38
I really do hope it works out well for you. I hate seeing anybody ripped off or otherwise screwed, especially a fellow backpacker. :sun
saltysack
03-21-2017, 21:58
At least he'll get to see an example of something that's done well... before he mangles it. :eek:
But it's like sending your Ferrari to the kid down the street who fixes lawn mowers part time. I've always had the impression of BWD as more for the 'axe-and-Bowie-knife' types.
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
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It may not be duct tape John was using but a 3M 1540 tape used for sealing sheathing seams which, although I've never used, I've heard supposedly sticks very well to Dyneema Composite through a good range of temps and UV ranges. Sheathing tape is MUCH less expensive per foot, about 4-6 cts/ft but of slightly higher wt than 1" wide double sided adhesive Dyneema Composite tape that sells for about 20 -25 cts/ft. That savings adds up when you're using perhaps 100's or even 1000's of ft of tape regularly.
Custom work is notoriously difficult to get wt specs dialed in by the one doing the work. More so when your custom work is a very rare or never seen before order.
BTW, on a positive note I have seen the zippered net door mod to a MLD Duomid that Bearpaw Gear did. It looked good particularly in context of the custom work cost. Other stuff like seams on some gear I've noticed sloppiness.
left52side
03-22-2017, 17:00
BTW, on a positive note I have seen the zippered net door mod to a MLD Duomid that Bearpaw Gear did. It looked good particularly in context of the custom work cost. Other stuff like seams on some gear I've noticed sloppiness.[/COLOR]]
Thanks for the positive note Dogwood,that helps ease my mind A bit on my tarp arriving...
left52side
03-23-2017, 14:27
OK so I received my hexamid tarp back from john today after the mod he made on it attaching a perimeter netting along the bottom and honestly I have nothing bad to say about it. It was exactly what I was looking for and he had it back to me in less than A week and the price was great.
I called him on the phone to thank him for his work and he seemed like A really nice guy and even offered to work on my tarp in the future if there was ever A problem with the netting.
Anyway I have attached some photos of the work he finished on my tarp and as you can see it looks really nice.
I am not sure what happened with OP but I certainly think the issue could of been resolved with A different approach,guess my point is there are certain ways to handle things and there are always two sides to every story scenario... The work obviously was not up to your expectations or the correct sizing but I think if handled differently then there might have been A better outcome for everyone involved.
Anyway thats my .02 here are the pics.
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ImAfraidOfBears
03-23-2017, 15:40
But it's like sending your Ferrari to the kid down the street who fixes lawn mowers part time.
Best thing i read today, thanks for that
Ironically,there is a company named Giani ferrari which manufactures lawn mowers and they are quality mowers.
Left52side,
I am glad you got a good product back from Bearpaw, this was obviously not my experience or the experience of many others. When a seller does work like he sent to me, then doesn't respond to any emails and only responds through paypal when a paypal request for a refund is made then that is not the right way to do things. He could have sent it out right, he could have offered to make it right after the fact...none of those options he chose. I honestly think he ****ed up when he built it and didn't want to be out the money in materials so shipped it out and put it on me. I will accept responsibility if I did something wrong, but I don't see where anything could have been done differently on my end. Again, I'm glad it worked out for you but if you read the countless negative threads about John and Bearpaw you will see he has been getting away with screwing people for years...my experience is nothing new.
Ferrari is the Italian equivalent to Smith. So not that uncommon.
left52side
03-23-2017, 18:26
Left52side,
I am glad you got a good product back from Bearpaw, this was obviously not my experience or the experience of many others. When a seller does work like he sent to me, then doesn't respond to any emails and only responds through paypal when a paypal request for a refund is made then that is not the right way to do things. He could have sent it out right, he could have offered to make it right after the fact...none of those options he chose. I honestly think he ****ed up when he built it and didn't want to be out the money in materials so shipped it out and put it on me. I will accept responsibility if I did something wrong, but I don't see where anything could have been done differently on my end. Again, I'm glad it worked out for you but if you read the countless negative threads about John and Bearpaw you will see he has been getting away with screwing people for years...my experience is nothing new.]
I agree 100 percent.
Although honestly I haven't read many more or any other bad reviews about them which is why I choose to mail my tarp to them to begin with.
Last year I am sure I posted about ordering A BPWD shelter and posted on here about anyone having any information about them as I could not find much out,and on that thread no one had A negative thing to say .
As I said I think obviously things should have different in your case and I hope that it will get resolved for you.
Left52side,
I am glad you got a good product back from Bearpaw, this was obviously not my experience or the experience of many others. When a seller does work like he sent to me, then doesn't respond to any emails and only responds through paypal when a paypal request for a refund is made then that is not the right way to do things. He could have sent it out right, he could have offered to make it right after the fact...none of those options he chose. I honestly think he ****ed up when he built it and didn't want to be out the money in materials so shipped it out and put it on me. I will accept responsibility if I did something wrong, but I don't see where anything could have been done differently on my end. Again, I'm glad it worked out for you but if you read the countless negative threads about John and Bearpaw you will see he has been getting away with screwing people for years...my experience is nothing new.
I agree with you 100%. You paid your hard earned money for a custom made quality tent, and you receive a tent that not only are the dimensions wrong, but you have a seam running down the middle of the floor, anchors that are sewn on crooked, material that is not even sewn in flat but flipped over in the corners so water penetrates, and what appears to be dollar store duct tape holding everything together.
I mean what is not to love? This company (if you want to call it that) is laughable. Now if he contracted someone else to do this project for him and they screwed it up, too bad. You paid good money to him and what you received was garbage. He needs to man up and make this right for you. I think it wise to contact Consumer Affairs or someone and file a complaint with them. And there is nothing different you need to have done.
MuddyWaters
03-23-2017, 20:56
I agree with you 100%. You paid your hard earned money for a custom made quality tent, and you receive a tent that not only are the dimensions wrong, but you have a seam running down the middle of the floor, anchors that are sewn on crooked, material that is not even sewn in flat but flipped over in the corners so water penetrates, and what appears to be dollar store duct tape holding everything together.
I mean what is not to love? This company (if you want to call it that) is laughable. Now if he contracted someone else to do this project for him and they screwed it up, too bad. You paid good money to him and what you received was garbage. He needs to man up and make this right for you. I think it wise to contact Consumer Affairs or someone and file a complaint with them. And there is nothing different you need to have done.
Bearpaws work is normally a little less pretty than others, but is serviceable...usually.
The dimensions were standard I believe. If his standard dimensions are off, then so it is. But its somewhat hard to measure these type items, and many vendors items measure slightly different than spec. How do you measure? flat, pitched, with how much sidewall height, etc.
All cuben except solo sizes tend to have a seam on floor. It comes 53" wide on the roll.
This was not "custom" dimensions. This was a standard build for dimensions which are listed on his website at 86x52x40. What I received was well short on all 3 dimensions and renders the tent unusable for me. The seam on the floor is not a big deal as I said in the video, but the finish on the floor corners is. The way it is folded over and taped is a joke and not how any work from any other manufacturer I have ever seen done, including looking at Bearpaws own website pictures. The tape doesn't even stick, is crooked and twisted, and the tieouts are unusable to create a bathtub, again his website pictures show a completely different finish method. This was a botched product that simply left the shop and the owner is refusing to make it right because he doesn't want to eat the cost of materials.
Thing is that I heard a lot of bad stories about Bearpaw prior to ordering, mainly about stitch quality, etc. Never did I expect a totally and completely botched product and an owner unwilling to make it right. Seriously, this is so bad that if it were a myog I would have stopped and just turned it into stuff sacks or a rain kilt...and I am horrible at myog. There is no way someone claiming to be an expert should make and stand by his product.
*There is no way someone claiming to be an expert should make and stand by his product in this shameful manner.
MuddyWaters
03-23-2017, 21:40
Folding corners that way and sewing top edge is how its done to avoid seams and leak point at corners. It keeps the floor intact.
Weights never include stuffsak.
The tape only covers the edge where its folded, and provides some reinforcement for loop attachment.
Was it intended to pitch standalone, (staked)or attached to tarp?. Loops at top of tub will either attach to tarp or need longish lines to not pull the tub to the ground bad, but usually its to attach to tarp with floating floor. Which saves a few stakes
Heres zpacks bathtub floor corner
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ScareBear
03-23-2017, 22:26
Thing is that I heard a lot of bad stories about Bearpaw prior to ordering, mainly about stitch quality, etc. Never did I expect a totally and completely botched product and an owner unwilling to make it right. Seriously, this is so bad that if it were a myog I would have stopped and just turned it into stuff sacks or a rain kilt...and I am horrible at myog. There is no way someone claiming to be an expert should make and stand by his product.
OK, now my sympathy level is heading south towards zero. You heard a lot of bad stories about the MFR prior to ordering, but YOU decided to roll the dice. You shot craps. Just like all those bad stories you heard. And, somehow, you expected to be special. You expected to be different. You expected something different than all of what you heard. Yet, you got exactly what you heard about...
Here's the deal. You buy a Yugo because you need a new car, but you cannot afford one with a decent reputation for quality. When the Yugo turns out to be a POS, you are surprised. Nobody else is. Just you.
You bought a "custom" item with a large piece of Cuben for under $250 from a company who you heard nothing but horror stories about prior to ordering. Next time, try spending the correct dollars for the correct product from a reputable manufacturer. There's this old phrase....it applies to you and your situation...."Don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish." Or, in modern vernacular..."You get what you pay for."
Now, enough with the incessant griping. You've taken it to every board/forum you can find, ad nauseum. Even for a bitching curmudgeon like me, you've taken this to a new pinnacle...
Let it go. You will live longer.
Alligator
03-23-2017, 22:35
OK so I received my hexamid tarp back from john today after the mod he made on it attaching a perimeter netting along the bottom and honestly I have nothing bad to say about it. It was exactly what I was looking for and he had it back to me in less than A week and the price was great.
I called him on the phone to thank him for his work and he seemed like A really nice guy and even offered to work on my tarp in the future if there was ever A problem with the netting.
Anyway I have attached some photos of the work he finished on my tarp and as you can see it looks really nice.
I am not sure what happened with OP but I certainly think the issue could of been resolved with A different approach,guess my point is there are certain ways to handle things and there are always two sides to every story scenario... The work obviously was not up to your expectations or the correct sizing but I think if handled differently then there might have been A better outcome for everyone involved.
Anyway thats my .02 here are the pics.
38839388403884138842I was just looking at your pictures to get some idea of the work done. It caught my interest as I had done this myself on my pyramid tent. I sewed netting around the bottom to be able to lift it up and get some ventilation. Anyway, and I could be mistaken, but when I look at your first picture zoomed, it looks like there is a gap in the netting beneath the black patch on the tarp wall. Looks like there is a string running down from the patch, maybe it's a pullout there. That's not a gap though is it? The seam appears to flip over there possibly. Could be fine netting that I can't see maybe.
left52side
03-23-2017, 22:49
I was just looking at your pictures to get some idea of the work done. It caught my interest as I had done this myself on my pyramid tent. I sewed netting around the bottom to be able to lift it up and get some ventilation. Anyway, and I could be mistaken, but when I look at your first picture zoomed, it looks like there is a gap in the netting beneath the black patch on the tarp wall. Looks like there is a string running down from the patch, maybe it's a pullout there. That's not a gap though is it? The seam appears to flip over there possibly. Could be fine netting that I can't see maybe.
That is A pullout to attach A bathtub floor to the tarp. It might be the sun reflecting off A leaf in the yard but there is no flaws in it as far as I could see when I inspected it today.
Alligator
03-24-2017, 01:00
That is A pullout to attach A bathtub floor to the tarp. It might be the sun reflecting off A leaf in the yard but there is no flaws in it as far as I could see when I inspected it today.
OK. Was looking like there was a gap where I circled.38847
left52side
03-24-2017, 01:18
ill double check it again tomorrow but I think it is just the way the seam is reflcting off the sunlight.but i will check out out
OK, now my sympathy level is heading south towards zero. You heard a lot of bad stories about the MFR prior to ordering, but YOU decided to roll the dice. You shot craps. Just like all those bad stories you heard. And, somehow, you expected to be special. You expected to be different. You expected something different than all of what you heard. Yet, you got exactly what you heard about...
Here's the deal. You buy a Yugo because you need a new car, but you cannot afford one with a decent reputation for quality. When the Yugo turns out to be a POS, you are surprised. Nobody else is. Just you.
You bought a "custom" item with a large piece of Cuben for under $250 from a company who you heard nothing but horror stories about prior to ordering. Next time, try spending the correct dollars for the correct product from a reputable manufacturer. There's this old phrase....it applies to you and your situation...."Don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish." Or, in modern vernacular..."You get what you pay for."
Now, enough with the incessant griping. You've taken it to every board/forum you can find, ad nauseum. Even for a bitching curmudgeon like me, you've taken this to a new pinnacle...
Let it go. You will live longer.
I never expected to be special. I believe I had realistic expectations on quality, but what I received was way beyond ridiculous. I do agree with you on a few points. I rolled the dice-and lost, and I definitely need to let it go. At least I called John and Bearpaw out, and hopefully let others know to steer clear of his company.
Folding corners that way and sewing top edge is how its done to avoid seams and leak point at corners. It keeps the floor intact.
Weights never include stuffsak.
The tape only covers the edge where its folded, and provides some reinforcement for loop attachment.
Was it intended to pitch standalone, (staked)or attached to tarp?. Loops at top of tub will either attach to tarp or need longish lines to not pull the tub to the ground bad, but usually its to attach to tarp with floating floor. Which saves a few stakes
Heres zpacks bathtub floor corner
38844
Zpacks floor corners are finished straight and even. Every one of mine is crooked and twisted. Nothing lines up, and the tape used is not sticking properly. I don't doubt the method used, but rather the execution in which mine was made. There was nothing about it that was quality, it was half assed. I know the stuffsack is not included, however it still was over spec weight all the while the height/width/length were all shorted...
left52side
03-24-2017, 10:50
OK. Was looking like there was a gap where I circled.Click image for larger version.
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Upon examining it thoroughly I seen no gap in the sewing... It must have just been they way I took the picture.
BuckeyeBill
03-24-2017, 11:09
JBrewer,
First, I am sorry that this occurred and you are not getting the satisfaction from the manufacturer. Second, I agree with you in reference to the quality be bad. However, as others have said you were aware of this possibility when you placed your order. I feel you came this forum for two reasons: to inform others of the quality from Bearpaw and to vent. If I were you, at this point I would drop this matter on this forum and find a lawyer. Ask him how much he would charge you to write a letter threatening legal action if John does not refund your money. Take that letter and place it on top of the tent in a box. Ship it back to John. I say use a lawyer, as your emotions may take over writing one yourself. If John still won't cooperate, then follow through with legal action. Good luck.
MuddyWaters
03-25-2017, 04:33
Zpacks floor corners are finished straight and even. Every one of mine is crooked and twisted. Nothing lines up, and the tape used is not sticking properly. I don't doubt the method used, but rather the execution in which mine was made. There was nothing about it that was quality, it was half assed. I know the stuffsack is not included, however it still was over spec weight all the while the height/width/length were all shorted...
Zpacks is made of heavier material that holds shape better, and there is no doubt the zpacks corner was creased well in mfg, possibly with heat, which truly might not be a good thing for cuben long term.
The standard width was 50" on bpw website, correct? With 2.5" high bathtub, total width would be 55" measured flat. Did you measure width flat and taught? A lot of variations occur in setup, and innumerable wrinkles / creases in cuben really seem to shorten dimensions unless pulled out and relaxed. My experience with cuben, is that practical dimensions can seem smaller than it was cut and sewn at due to this.
Two 25" pads in a 50" wide net shelter with minimal bathtub height, will be a tight squeeze if everything is perfect, almost guaranteed to push down wall from movement at night and sliding around. In fact, the wall would be same height as many pads and seem like not even there.
Any setup pics?