Hammock Transition Advice - Staying lightweight

[lukabrazi]

I currently use a zpacks hexamid tarp and zlite sol pad that weighs 22.4 ounces total including stakes and ground cloth. I am in the process of planning a 300+ mile trip that is not on the AT and am rethinking my gear a bit.

Last summer I was a chaperone on a boy scouts 50 mile badge hike. One of the rules for the scouts was that they use hammocks so I bought a Warbonnet XLC and used it on the trip with a big blue heavy flat tarp. There were lots of things to like about this but I did get chilly. I liked that I didn't need to find a flat or a dry spot. I like the idea of not needing to find a flat spot and camping when I am ready to stop vs when I find a suitable ground site.

The only thing I own so far is the single layer multicam XLC. I am currently looking at summer insulation options and tarps. If I use the XLC, Edge Tarp, and Yeti under quilt the system I would weigh 51.4 ounces. If I bump up to the Wookie underquilt and Mambajamba tarp I'm looking at 62.9 ounces. I have spent a lot of effort to shed ounces so I'm having a hard time adding pounds back on.

What would your ideal light weight system be with the XLC for summer use?

or

Would you sell the XLC and go with something lighter altogether?

[orthofingers]

You have nicely explained the hammock vs tent weight/convenience/ease of setup matrix but IMO left out the factor that pushed most of us to hammocks in the first place . . . comfort.

Although some claim that they can get their hammock setup as light as their ground dwelling setup, I remain skeptical. You'd need the highest fp for your top quilt and under quilt and a cuben tarp to get close. Nevertheless, for me, the comfort factor alone is worth it.

[Mr. Bumpy]

Comfort... I agree. I concern myself about weight but am not an UL kind of backpacker. For a few years my go to tent was a CS2, so when I switched over to hammock I never noticed the difference in weight. It has been relatively easy to put together an all weather hammock set up that I can take down into the low twenties or high teens without suffering a weight penalty. My shoulder season set up includes a synthetic UQ along with a z-rest. I sleep fine on the foam in the hammock and I like always having it as a option if I decide on a shelter or the ground.

[lukabrazi]

Another reason for thinking about switching is that I feel like I would be less exposed to ticks up off the ground.

[DuneElliot]

My hammocking set-up is as light as my ground set up. Dutch netless 11ft hammock, Fronkey bug net (not always needed), Hammock Gear CF winter tarp, LLG 10* TQ and UQ. This weighs around 70oz which is right around the same as my Duplex, Klymit pad and EE Convert. The hammocking set up could be lighter if I didn't have 10* quilts and used a hex tarp instead of the large winter palace.

[Uncle Joe]

My tent setup vs hammock is within a few ounces. I agree about the ticks. Being off the ground is one less vector. I tend to sleep a little better on the ground but I prefer to take my hammock.

[Rain Man]

Sounds as if the OP is comparing apples to butterflies. Not even a tent system is as light as his tarp alone. Nor does he include whats on top of him in either system. Sleeping bags are heavier than TQs.

In my experience (I've used several set-ups of both) a tent/sleep system and a hammock/sleep system weigh very close to the same thing, but not as light as a tarp alone or cowboy camping.

[gravityfalls]

Your question got me thinking about what I use for my ground system and my hammock system and how they compared weight wise.

I used to use a 10x10 tarp, Tyvek groundsheet, NeoAir pad, stakes and guylines, and bugnet for a total of approximately 76.8 ounces.

My hammock setup with hammock w/ suspension, bugnet, tq, uq, hex tarp with with doors, and stakes and guylines is approximately 77 ounces.

So no incredible change for me. I know I could have gone lighter with the tarp for my ground setup, but I enjoyed the space and I could fit my 10 year old daughter when she went hiking with me. She now carries her own 8oz hammock and 10oz tarp.

Hammocks do have comfort going for them, and no middle of the night adjustment from sliding down hill because of slightly unlevel ground.

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[Rex Clifton]

You'll have a hard time getting a hammock system down as light as your current, ground pounding configuration. Although there are lighter options out there, the XLC is a good start as your base hammock. You can shed some weight where bugs are not a problem by going with a net less hammock. My recommendation is to get a Simply Light Designs Treerunner in single layer 1.6 HyperDXL (trust me, get the wide hammock). Also get the knotty mod on both sides. For a good three season top and bottom quilt option I would recommend a Hammock Gear Phoenix underquilt and Burrow topquilt. As a good compromise, get the quilts custom made to a 30 degree rating. All you have to do is buy the 40 degree quilts and add the two ounce overfill option. However, you've got to tell them to make the baffles for 30 degrees, there is no extra charge beyond the down upgrade. As for the tarp, since you have already swallowed hard and bought cuben fiber, either the Hammock Gear or Zpacks cuben fiber tarp will do ( I would probably go for the Zpacks). I would also recommend you get the tarp with doors.


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[Feral Bill]

Not discussed yet: is the weight of a groundcloth and pad for when you need to go to ground. It adds to the hammock system weight. For me, it's worth it.

[lukabrazi]

Does anyone have experience with the Yeti underquilt vs the Wookie? Would the Yeti suffice without needing an additional pad in the summer months when the average low is around 50 at night?

[globetruck]

Does anyone have experience with the Yeti underquilt vs the Wookie? Would the Yeti suffice without needing an additional pad in the summer months when the average low is around 50 at night?

I've used the yeti down to about 25. I carry 4 sections of a therm a test folding pad for use as a sit pad and for foot insulation. That combination has served me quite well.

[gravityfalls]

Not discussed yet: is the weight of a groundcloth and pad for when you need to go to ground. It adds to the hammock system weight. For me, it's worth it.
I bring the Gossamer Gear 3/4 length Night Light pad. Perfect for putting under my legs to make up for the HG Phoenix and going to ground. Only weighs 6oz.

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[gbolt]

1= It's hard to beat the weight of a Zpacks Hexamed Tarp, pad Ground Cloth with any other Shelter System. To me, this is a 3rd Catagory - if Tents are the 2nd and Hammocks are the 1st Catagory. Each has Pro's and Con's. You have to decide which out weighs the other, both literally and figuratively.

You cannot find a lighter tarp than the Edge, (unless you pay $ for certain CF Tarp for Hammocks, see my issue below). Could the Hexamed Tarp be custom configured to be a Hammock Tarp? I would check into that. You cannot find a lighter UQ than the Warbonnet Yeti 20º - that's why it is a 3/4 length. Yet, you must consider either all or a portion of your Zlite Sol Pad for the missing 1/4 and feet insulation into your weight calculation. I use a Dutch Sit Pad with mine and have been find down into the low 20's. If this is just summer camping than this is really a none issue. You could also use the Pad inside lightweight Packs. Finally, the XLC is a wonderful Hammock, with features unique to this hammock and Warbonnet in general. Before I would sell an XLC, I would decide overall wants/needs for a broad spectrum of trips rather than one summer experience. I'm not sure I would change anything for one trip and without a great deal of thought. If I knew that weight was 80% of all variables for choosing a hammock, I would probably compare it to the Dutch Half Wit. If the other Variable factored in was Bug/Cold and Versatility, I would probably compare it to the new Dutch Chameleon.

I may not be the best to ask, because I only use a 10ft Warbonnet Blackbird DL 1.1 and chose it over the 11ft XLC. The reasons are that I am comfortable with the 10ft, never really remove the bugnet (including in the winter), enjoy the footbox and storage flap, comfort ability and I like the final hammock weight of 29 oz. This winter, I just switched out the Edge for the HG CF Palace Tarp for coverage and actually increased my weight from 12.75oz up to 13.50oz. Perfectly satisfied, yet I still keep getting intrigued by the Chameleon. Isn't new gear exciting but older gear still feels the most comfortable.

[Wise Old Owl]

Not discussed yet: is the weight of a groundcloth and pad for when you need to go to ground. It adds to the hammock system weight. For me, it's worth it.

Clearly you over thunk? I go to ground and still use two trees, The stretch will "bottom out" and there is less than a 3/4 Silver thermarest under me now. (I cut it up)Others can still use a reflective silver blanket. The wind got me last time so I now pitch into the wind each hike.

Folks don't forget vapor barriers and 20 gallon trash bags for the legs.

[ggreaves]

You will be able to sell your XLC for almost what you paid for it on hammockforums and get yourself something lighter and more comfortable (XLC has a bad calf ridge problem)

Dutchware Half Wit Hammock 1.0 Hexon with suspension..... 14 oz
HammockGear Cuben tarp with doors.... 7 oz
Klymit Insulated Static V-Lite pad (you should have a pad instead of underquilt if you want to ever sleep in a shelter or go to ground)..... 19 oz

Total 40 oz.

This system will easily get you to 20F assuming your bag or quilt is rated that low. The klymit is the perfect hammock pad and works better than other, better ground pads in a hammock (i.e. Neoairs) due to it's baffle shape and width.

[TX Aggie]

This is exactly why m considering the Klymit. I will still be going to ground in a tent when I take my daughters hiking and the Klymit sounds like it will fill both roles.


While we're on this subject, a quick question on the weight of the full Chameleon system: how does it compare weight wise and does it require a tarp?

[lukabrazi]

Whats on top of me won't change so it doesn't matter. I use a zpacks slim long 40 degree bag in the summer. 13.2 with the cuben stuff sack. Also I'm not really trying to be sold on hammocks or comparing the two. Just asking for advice on keeping things simple and light. I'm light enough with everything that it is no big deal for me to carry more for additional comfort or something that will work better for the trip. That being said, this will probably be about two pounds heavier than what I have used for the last five years so I wanted some advice before spending the money.

[lukabrazi]

Thank you! This is great. I'm going to check all of this out.


You will be able to sell your XLC for almost what you paid for it on hammockforums and get yourself something lighter and more comfortable (XLC has a bad calf ridge problem)

Dutchware Half Wit Hammock 1.0 Hexon with suspension..... 14 oz
HammockGear Cuben tarp with doors.... 7 oz
Klymit Insulated Static V-Lite pad (you should have a pad instead of underquilt if you want to ever sleep in a shelter or go to ground)..... 19 oz

Total 40 oz.

This system will easily get you to 20F assuming your bag or quilt is rated that low. The klymit is the perfect hammock pad and works better than other, better ground pads in a hammock (i.e. Neoairs) due to it's baffle shape and width.

[lukabrazi]

Also I had never heard of the Chameleon. That looks awesome!

[ggreaves]

Also I had never heard of the Chameleon. That looks awesome!

yup, it's the new thing.

[lukabrazi]

I ended up going with the Edge tarp and the Wookie underquilt. Next up is an order with dutch for some titanium.

[gbolt]

Edge is a great lightweight tarp. Get 4 hair ties to "snake skin" it for easy packing and deployment. Wookie will offer great insulation with "no fiddle factor" adjustments. Great choices and hope they work out for you. Even though I don't have my Edge anymore... My YouTube channel has older videos that show it and the hair ties if interested.

[ggreaves]

That wookie looks like a sweet underquilt

[lukabrazi]

The reason I ended up going with the Wookie was because of the simplicity. I didn't want to be trying to place smaller pads in the right spots and for me I just roll around too much at night to think everything was going to stay put without lots of messing. Eventually I might get a Cuben tarp but for now this is what the budget allowed. Does anyone use any of Dutche's hardware?

[DuneElliot]

The reason I ended up going with the Wookie was because of the simplicity. I didn't want to be trying to place smaller pads in the right spots and for me I just roll around too much at night to think everything was going to stay put without lots of messing. Eventually I might get a Cuben tarp but for now this is what the budget allowed. Does anyone use any of Dutche's hardware?

I use his CRL for my Winter Palace tarp which comes with the Tato tarp connectors and a wasp. Pretty simple set-up. I also make use of the whoopie hooks for my hammock suspension...WARNING: Dutch bling can be addictive, there's a support group on Hammock Forums :D

[ranger2012]

dutchware is great. I use their tree huggers with dutch clips and whoopie slings as a suspension and it is a simple/quick setup. Also his fleaz on my ridgeline and again simple/quick setup. Once you get that Edge outfitted I'd really like to hear what you used and what your final weight is since I'm looking to replace my tarp this spring. Thanks.

[lukabrazi]

My hammock came with the whoopie slings attached. I can see how it would be simple to use the dutch biners to connect the whoopie to the tree strap but how would I go about using the lighter whoopie hooks since the whoopie would need to be threaded through the hole in the hook? Hope that makes sense...

[DuneElliot]

My hammock came with the whoopie slings attached. I can see how it would be simple to use the dutch biners to connect the whoopie to the tree strap but how would I go about using the lighter whoopie hooks since the whoopie would need to be threaded through the hole in the hook? Hope that makes sense...

Mine came with the hooks already on the whoopie sling so I can't be of help in how to add them

[DuneElliot]

Maybe I should qualify my answer...my Dutch hammock has continuous loops on the gathered ends which in turn attach to the whoopie hooks on the whoopie slings. From there I attach my whoopie slings to the Dutch tree straps. There are three separate components to my hammock suspension.

[ggreaves]

The reason I ended up going with the Wookie was because of the simplicity. I didn't want to be trying to place smaller pads in the right spots and for me I just roll around too much at night to think everything was going to stay put without lots of messing. Eventually I might get a Cuben tarp but for now this is what the budget allowed. Does anyone use any of Dutche's hardware?

One of the learning curve issues most people have is getting their underquilt right. The wookie is a solid choice in this regard. I haven't heard a bad thing about it yet. First big underquilt innovation I've seen in a long time.

[ranger2012]

Picture is from the dutchware site. What does the free end of your whoopie sling look like? You may be able to attach it to the tree hugger in the same way.

38848

[lukabrazi]

Thank you! In my head I had this reversed.


Picture is from the dutchware site. What does the free end of your whoopie sling look like? You may be able to attach it to the tree hugger in the same way.

38848

[gbolt]

I would get Dutch Quilt Hangers for your Wooki.

I would decide if you want a Continuous Ridge Line or Two Ridgelines to attach to the Edge D-Ring.

I went with the Two Ridgelines for my previous Edge and my current HG Palace. One Line has 12ft of Line with a Wasp. The other line is 12ft on a Stingerz.

As far as whoopies and tree huggers - that is dependent on your hammock itself. The Dutch Bling I suggest for all hammocks is Dutch Clips for straps. My current choice for the latest straps are the Dutch Beetles.

[gbolt]

I would get Dutch Quilt Hangers for your Wooki.

I would decide if you want a Continuous Ridge Line or Two Ridgelines to attach to the Edge D-Ring.

I went with the Two Ridgelines for my previous Edge and my current HG Palace. One Line has 12ft of Line with a Wasp. The other line is 12ft on a Stingerz.

As far as whoopies and tree huggers - that is dependent on your hammock itself. The Dutch Bling I suggest for all hammocks is Dutch Clips for straps. My current choice for the latest straps are the Dutch Beetles.

[ggreaves]

I would get Dutch Quilt Hangers for your Wooki.

I would decide if you want a Continuous Ridge Line or Two Ridgelines to attach to the Edge D-Ring.

I went with the Two Ridgelines for my previous Edge and my current HG Palace. One Line has 12ft of Line with a Wasp. The other line is 12ft on a Stingerz.

As far as whoopies and tree huggers - that is dependent on your hammock itself. The Dutch Bling I suggest for all hammocks is Dutch Clips for straps. My current choice for the latest straps are the Dutch Beetles.

If you learn a few tarp knots (taut-line hitch for the stake outs, truckers hitch for around the tree), you won't need any hardware at all. Dutch bling is pretty and titanium's light but using no hardware is even lighter and just as fast for putting up the tarp. I wouldn't bother with quilt hooks either. The wookie eliminates the need for any devices to help keep the quilt in place. Fire and forget, especially on an XLC which is what it was designed for.

[OMark]

A hammock is a no brainer for me when it comes to simplicity and weight (even though some tents come close). I highly value getting off the ground when it comes to critters, ticks, etc

[Just Tom]

You will be able to sell your XLC for almost what you paid for it on hammockforums and get yourself something lighter and more comfortable (XLC has a bad calf ridge problem)

Dutchware Half Wit Hammock 1.0 Hexon with suspension..... 14 oz
HammockGear Cuben tarp with doors.... 7 oz
Klymit Insulated Static V-Lite pad (you should have a pad instead of underquilt if you want to ever sleep in a shelter or go to ground)..... 19 oz

Total 40 oz.

This system will easily get you to 20F assuming your bag or quilt is rated that low. The klymit is the perfect hammock pad and works better than other, better ground pads in a hammock (i.e. Neoairs) due to it's baffle shape and width.

Question on the sleeping pad. Why the Klymit Insulated Static V-Lite pad VS say a Neo Air? I ask this because I'm going to try out hammocking this year and I was hoping to reuse my existing sleeping pad.

[Uncle Joe]

Question on the sleeping pad. Why the Klymit Insulated Static V-Lite pad VS say a Neo Air? I ask this because I'm going to try out hammocking this year and I was hoping to reuse my existing sleeping pad.

You'll be fine with your Neo. The Klymit has a distinct baffle shape that makes it likely better suited that's all. I think Klymit even makes one with side baffles specifically for hammocks. I wouldn't go buy another pad until you determine if hammock sleeping is right for you.

[Deadeye]

I use the same insulation top & bottom (Thermarest Prolite & Warbonnet top quilt) whether I'm hammocking or tenting, so the only consideration for me is the weight of the hammock & tarp vs. the tent:

Warbonnet Blackbird 25 oz.
Warbonnet Edge tarp 10 oz. TarpTent Rainbow 35 oz.

Voila! No difference. I just consider whether the hike I'm going on will be better suited to tenting or hammocking. When I thru, if I go NOBO, I plan to tent until past the Smokies (easier to stay warm), and then switch to the hammock. Comfortable sleeping is so important that I'm not going to quibble about ounces, same goes for the pack. I'll gladly take an extra half-pound of sleeping system and an extra half-pound of pack (what's that - a half a day of food?) to get a comfortable hike & sleep.

[ggreaves]

Question on the sleeping pad. Why the Klymit Insulated Static V-Lite pad VS say a Neo Air? I ask this because I'm going to try out hammocking this year and I was hoping to reuse my existing sleeping pad.

I tried a Neoair xlite large in mine. It's 77"x25". The Klymit is 72"x23". The baffles in the neoair go across the pad. The pad doesn't like to bend into a taco shape once inflated which is what is required in a hammock. The baffles in the klymit are V shaped and there are 3 columns. And it bends quite easily at the tip of the V on the middle column of baffles too. so it wraps around you in 4 segments. The neoair just tried to stay flat. The ridgeline was 2 inches above my nose in the hammock and it bacame quite tippy. Maybe if it was underinflated a lot it would work better - but that would steal insulating value.

[Jayne]

Question on the sleeping pad. Why the Klymit Insulated Static V-Lite pad VS say a Neo Air? I ask this because I'm going to try out hammocking this year and I was hoping to reuse my existing sleeping pad.

I use a Neoaiir in my XLC and find it to be quite comfortable. YMMV. Comfort is very subjective and depends on how your specific body fits in a specific hammock and how you are hanging and adjusting the system. The advantage of a hammock is that it is very adjustable; the downside is that getting everything right requires some practice and different things work well for different people.

[Jayne]

I tried a Neoair xlite large in mine. It's 77"x25". The Klymit is 72"x23". The baffles in the neoair go across the pad. The pad doesn't like to bend into a taco shape once inflated which is what is required in a hammock. The baffles in the klymit are V shaped and there are 3 columns. And it bends quite easily at the tip of the V on the middle column of baffles too. so it wraps around you in 4 segments. The neoair just tried to stay flat. The ridgeline was 2 inches above my nose in the hammock and it bacame quite tippy. Maybe if it was underinflated a lot it would work better - but that would steal insulating value.

I think you are hanging your hammock at way too shallow of an angle if that's the case. The XLC needs a nice bend and the foot needs to be a good 18" higher than the head before it really starts to get comfortable. I highly recommend the Shugemery Youtube vidieos on the XLC for some very good tips.

[ggreaves]

I use a Neoaiir in my XLC and find it to be quite comfortable. YMMV. Comfort is very subjective and depends on how your specific body fits in a specific hammock and how you are hanging and adjusting the system. The advantage of a hammock is that it is very adjustable; the downside is that getting everything right requires some practice and different things work well for different people.

which size neoair are you using? 20" wide? or 25"

[Jayne]

The 25" wide one

[ggreaves]

I think you are hanging your hammock at way too shallow of an angle if that's the case. The XLC needs a nice bend and the foot needs to be a good 18" higher than the head before it really starts to get comfortable. I highly recommend the Shugemery Youtube vidieos on the XLC for some very good tips.

I don't have an XLC (anymore - most uncomfortable hammock I owned - calfridge city). The hammock I used to try the Neoair was a Dream Hammock Dangerbird.