View Full Version : Tent flooding
Timinator
03-20-2017, 14:17
My tent and my backpack are the heaviest aspects of my gear system. I plan on replacing the tent and then the bag gradually while on trail but the tent is certainly something I'd like to replace asap.
I'm strongly considering buying a zpacks tent but I 'm not sure whether to buy a tub bottom section. What are the odds my tent will get flooded on the AT without tub flooring?
Good to excellent. Read some of Tipi Walter's trip reports and his accounts of rain events lasting upwards of 150 hours.
Or not. Every year is different. You might luck out and sit out one of those storms in a comfy shelter.
"Are you felling lucky?"
Good luck.
Wayne
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ggreaves
03-20-2017, 15:12
My tent and my backpack are the heaviest aspects of my gear system. I plan on replacing the tent and then the bag gradually while on trail but the tent is certainly something I'd like to replace asap.
I'm strongly considering buying a zpacks tent but I 'm not sure whether to buy a tub bottom section. What are the odds my tent will get flooded on the AT without tub flooring?
Time for a hammock. High and dry every night no matter what the weather.
AfterParty
03-20-2017, 15:15
I'd probably at least dig a gutter if you don't go bathtub and get a bivy
I'd probably at least dig a gutter if you don't go bathtub and get a bivy
Choose an appropriate site for your tent, and there is no need for a bathtub floor or to do something as horrible as digging a gutter. Leave no trace.
TX Aggie
03-20-2017, 16:27
Murphy's law:
If you buy the tub, you may or need it.
If you don't it the tub, 100% chance you'll need it.
I've spent enough time in shelter halves and digging trenches around them to divert water that I'm more than happy to carry a few extra ounces on a tub floor. Sleep time is recovery time.
You're already saving a ton of weight by going with a Zpack, adding the floor still puts you ahead of the game.
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soumodeler
03-20-2017, 16:32
A Duplex with stakes is 24oz or so. With a full bathtub floor and bug netting, it's hard to beat. Great tent, love mine.
Mr. Bumpy
03-20-2017, 16:40
Maybe try a hammock. Get the cheapest one from amazon and an 8x8 blue tarp hung diagonally.
Slo-go'en
03-20-2017, 16:42
I'd probably at least dig a gutter if you don't go bathtub and get a bivy
That's against LNT ethics and nearly impossible to do without tools anyway. Doesn't protect you from splash either, which is a significant factor.
Yes, you need a tub bottom unless you don't mind rolling into the mud and having it splash under the edges of the tent. You also want the bug protection.
Either a tub bottom or a lightweight bivy (Tigoat, etc) would give you the additional protection you need.
How exactly does one replace a backpack gradually? On the trail? Grinning.
The Duplex is what, $600?
The ULA Ohm 2.0 costs $210 or the Circuit costs $235.
There are 5 TarpTent models under $300 each. Henry doesn't sell incomplete tents.
Start lighter on Day 1. Save a few bucks. Stay dry & bug free.
Think about it.
Wayne
Alligator
03-20-2017, 17:06
I have only once gotten flooded on the AT while tarp camping. I had picked a shallow, compacted depression to set up in. I do use a ground cloth just to be clear and curled it/lifted it on a side for peace of mind maybe a time or two. I do use one in my tipi tent now but that's 'cause of kids sliding off the ground cloth under the tent into the rain. I subconsciously don't do that but not everyone can. Also can you keep yourself from pushing your gear under the wall as well?
4eyedbuzzard
03-20-2017, 17:13
You have to have protection of some sort from runoff and/or pooling water on the ground when hiking in the eastern mountains. What seems like a great high and dry tent spot when you pick it can later in the night mysteriously seem to defy the laws of physics and turn into a water path or puddle. Part of it has to do with site selection. Even slightly higher mounded areas, which would be dryer, tend to be either rocky or rooty and not eroded as much as the surrounding area. They tend to be uneven and therefore unsuitable. You need a relatively level spot to pitch a tent. And those level spots tend to pool water from the higher, less eroded areas around them. A waterproof floor is pretty much a necessity.
AfterParty
03-20-2017, 18:13
That's against LNT ethics and nearly impossible to do without tools anyway. Doesn't protect you from splash either, which is a significant factor.
Yes, you need a tub bottom unless you don't mind rolling into the mud and having it splash under the edges of the tent. You also want the bug protection.
Hey I learned something today still say get a bivy
ScareBear
03-20-2017, 18:55
I'd probably at least dig a gutter if you don't go bathtub and get a bivy
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.
Do NOT dig a frigging gutter/French drain around your frigging tent/tarp. DO NOT.
WTH about LNT is not being understood here?
Another two thumbs up from another happy owner of the ZPacks Duplex. Get the bathtub floor which will protect you from bugs, run-off, splash, and assorted bad luck. Even the Duplex weighs in at well under 2-pounds, even less for the Solplex or Altaplex.
Also, I'll pile on and agree that no current-day hiker should be digging gutters,etc for their tent. Especially on a high-traffic trail like the AT. The only digging anyone should do on the AT is a cat hole for when you can't make it to a privy.
Billy Goat
03-20-2017, 20:18
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.
Do NOT dig a frigging gutter/French drain around your frigging tent/tarp. DO NOT.
WTH about LNT is not being understood here?
+1. Or a thousand. Also, unless you set up over a body of water a hammock will NOT be flooded. Apparently (I got my ass eaten at HF.NET about old info ) you can hang in GSMNP now at shelter site with tent sites. My hammock rig is just over 2 lbs and the most comfy (and dry) sleep I've ever gotten in the back country. Something to think about. And an 11ft hammock and 11ft silpoly tarp is cheaper than a 2lb tent. Even if you have to buy and not make it yourself.
Cheers,
the Goat
Wise Old Owl
03-20-2017, 20:54
My tent and my backpack are the heaviest aspects of my gear system. I plan on replacing the tent and then the bag gradually while on trail but the tent is certainly something I'd like to replace asap.
I'm strongly considering buying a zpacks tent but I 'm not sure whether to buy a tub bottom section. What are the odds my tent will get flooded on the AT without tub flooring?
I too have experienced Virginia ground floods. We were not in a depression. back then the air mattress was 4 inches and I slept all night and was floating in the top of the tent 12 inches above the floor. (Andre Jamlet) I think I was 10 years old at the time. When I woke up I put my arms down to the floor to work my way out of the new pond inside the tent and I was shocked.
Ya never know...
ggreaves
03-20-2017, 21:25
For the price of a new Duplex tent - 21 oz ($600) you could get...
Dutchware half-wit hammock with suspension and bugnet... 14oz
HammockGear 11' cuben fiber tarp with doors.......................... 7oz
Total outlay is Hammock $137 + Tarp $295 = $432 which leaves you $168 more to spend on a lightweight backpack or quilt or whatever to help lighten your load. And... you won't get wet, from either ground water or condensation... ever. And you'll sleep in the same position every night no matter what the ground looks like. No more sleeping on funny angles or on top of roots. Restorative sleep every night. You'll leave no trace and won't have to dig moats where you set up.
Everything else you'd be carrying besides the hammock and tarp would be the same as a tent setup. You will want a mattress to keep your butt warm in the hammock or give you a place to sleep in a shelter if you're so inclined or above treeline.
MuddyWaters
03-20-2017, 21:33
If you get flooded, it will be because YOU picked a bad spot.
On the AT, you always know the forecast . Reception is good enough that someone always knows.
Pitch on a slight slope, on leaves and soft duff. Hard clear areas mean runoff and packed as soil so water doesnt soak in. Put sticks/rocks under uphill side of groundsheet to elevate it in case.
I didn't have a bathtub floor on the AT and never got flooded out. I had to be careful about site selection.
Even when I have a shelter with bathtub floor I try to make it a rule to avoid setting up where my shelter might end up in standing water. I'm not going to bet that there aren't needle holes or pinholes in my floor that will let water in. I avoid packed ground, bare earth and low spots. I imagine what the area will look like if it pours.
That's just me.
Feral Bill
03-20-2017, 22:58
For other places, such as national parks with designated hardened sites, you can easily end up with substantial groundwater and no viable hanging spots. Best to hope your bathtub floor does not get water inside, either.
Francis Sawyer
03-21-2017, 08:42
Lots of advice..... You will still get wet. Raingear, tarps, tubs, galoshes yadda yadda one way or another if you're outdoors for an extended period of time you will get wet. If you do not dry out you will continue to be wet.
TX Aggie
03-21-2017, 08:52
Lots of advice..... You will still get wet. Raingear, tarps, tubs, galoshes yadda yadda one way or another if you're outdoors for an extended period of time you will get wet. If you do not dry out you will continue to be wet.
Truth.
Embrace the suck.
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ggreaves
03-21-2017, 09:52
Lots of advice..... You will still get wet. Raingear, tarps, tubs, galoshes yadda yadda one way or another if you're outdoors for an extended period of time you will get wet. If you do not dry out you will continue to be wet.
... except if you're sleeping... in a hammock... under a tarp... off the ground... where all the water.... you know... lands eventually.
... except if you're sleeping... in a hammock... under a tarp... off the ground... where all the water.... you know... lands eventually.
I've got wet in hammocks before, even with a perfect tarp pitch. Sometimes, it just doesn't matter what you do.
ScareBear
03-21-2017, 10:26
I've got wet in hammocks before, even with a perfect tarp pitch. Sometimes, it just doesn't matter what you do.
We heard/saw a guy cussing and yelling at 3am...he must have pitched his fly incorrectly, or something. His hammock filled up from the rain. Like a bathtub, it was...
We heard/saw a guy cussing and yelling at 3am...he must have pitched his fly incorrectly, or something. His hammock filled up from the rain. Like a bathtub, it was...
Haha. Yep, it'll happen if water gets in there in any quantity. The worst time I had, I had set up my tarp perfectly, sides against the wind and stakes as low as possible, ends battened down tight.
Wind didn't care about my perfect pitch and blew in the rain from every direction at what felt like a thousand miles an hour. Got very wet, had a small puddle under me.
But heck, it happens, no complaints. Luckily for me it was a weekend trip so I was going home the next day anyway. Dried out all my gear at home.
Slo-go'en
03-21-2017, 11:00
We heard/saw a guy cussing and yelling at 3am...he must have pitched his fly incorrectly, or something. His hammock filled up from the rain. Like a bathtub, it was...
I had that happen once. Pulled the tarp back for better ventilation on a hot summer night - then the thunderstorm came. Also saw it happen to a newbie hammock'er at Hawk Mt shelter. He managed to get his down sleeping bag completely soaked on his very first night out. Plus it was like 40 out. Never did see him again.
Then there is the issue of where to put stuff you don't want to get wet like your clothes. Then there is the wind. A hammock tarp is much noisier flapping around in the wind then a tent is. So, while a hammock has some good points, it also has issues.
ggreaves
03-21-2017, 11:47
So, while a hammock has some good points, it also has issues.
none that can't be effectively mitigated with a little knowledge and practice.
Timinator
03-21-2017, 13:04
I see a lot of mentions about the duplex tent. I was thinking more along the lines of the hexamid solo tent. Is this not a good choice? Duplex seems pretty overkill for a single AT hiker.
TX Aggie
03-21-2017, 15:16
I see a lot of mentions about the duplex tent. I was thinking more along the lines of the hexamid solo tent. Is this not a good choice? Duplex seems pretty overkill for a single AT hiker.
Someone else posted this a week or two ago. I'm not in the market for a zpacks tent, but found it very informative.
https://youtu.be/pJBPqdFWrIw
I see a lot of mentions about the duplex tent. I was thinking more along the lines of the hexamid solo tent. Is this not a good choice? Duplex seems pretty overkill for a single AT hiker.After being stuck in the coffin of most 1 person profile tents, you will wonder why you didn't get a 2 person. This usually happens when you get stuck in the tent for extended times in extenuating circumstances.
Puddlefish
03-21-2017, 15:57
... except if you're sleeping... in a hammock... under a tarp... off the ground... where all the water.... you know... lands eventually.
My friend with a hammock/tarp had to take a zero day to recover from some mild hypothermia. A corner of the tarp flopped loose during a rainstorm, and by the time she woke and hopped out of the hammock to deal with it, her hammock turned into a bathtub.
My tent had a bathtub floor, and I still was careful in choosing my tenting sites. If you camp early before the crowd arrives, you have more options, if you stealth camp well off the trail, you have more options. There will also be times where your options just don't exist. That relatively flat spot you identified on the map might have giant rocks, or someone might have gotten there first. It might be miles of steep ground before you reach flat enough terrain.
That said, I never got wet from ground water, and I don't think the bathtub floor was ever the determining factor in wet or not, as I never woke surrounded by a puddle. Some of that might have been luck, as I did tent in some hollows when only small amounts of rain were forecast. In those cases, I did count on the bathtub to bail me out.
Rain blowing at high speeds under a two inch to the ground tight pitch, that's what got me soaked a few nights. Set the foot into the wind, or somewhere between the current wind direction and the forecast wind direction. It's one thing to get wet feet, and just toss a bag over your feet, it's another thing to have the wind hit you on the side and get everything soaked.
ggreaves
03-21-2017, 16:52
My friend with a hammock/tarp had to take a zero day to recover from some mild hypothermia. A corner of the tarp flopped loose during a rainstorm, and by the time she woke and hopped out of the hammock to deal with it, her hammock turned into a bathtub.......
...Rain blowing at high speeds under a two inch to the ground tight pitch, that's what got me soaked a few nights. Set the foot into the wind, or somewhere between the current wind direction and the forecast wind direction. It's one thing to get wet feet, and just toss a bag over your feet, it's another thing to have the wind hit you on the side and get everything soaked.
The first instance you mentioned would have been a problem in a tent or a hammock or a tarping setup. You're relying on a staked down tarp or tent fly to keep you dry. If that comes undone you're sunk in any case. In the second case, you wouldn't have gotten wet in the hammock. When the side of the tarp is below the bottom of the hammock, you can't get wet even with sideways rain. Maybe a little dirt splatter on the outside of your underquilt protector but you'll be quite dry. All I'm saying is that all other things being equal, a hammock will keep you drier than a tent or other ground setup over time.
It doesn't really matter though. The OP has his heart set on a Zpacks tent. His original question was about needing a bathtub floor in one and I think that getting one's a good enough risk management decision for dealing with a wet ground on a thru hike.
rocketsocks
03-21-2017, 20:47
location location location
handlebar
03-22-2017, 09:59
I see a lot of mentions about the duplex tent. I was thinking more along the lines of the hexamid solo tent. Is this not a good choice? Duplex seems pretty overkill for a single AT hiker.
I've got the hexamid solo plus and use the separate ground sheet from Zpacks. Haven't had many problems with water penetrating under the edges, but keep a small pack towel handy to soak up any that does make it in. If rain is expected, I am careful that the ground sheet is well inside the edges of the hexamid. Had only two situations when I had to soak up small amounts of water that leaked in, Once when there was a thunderstorm that turned into thunder snow then several inches of heavy wet snow that weighed down the tent and allowed water to come in. In this case I'd arrived at the campsite after dark and hadn't pitched the hexamid very carefully----who would expect snow in late April east of Tuscon AZ, even up on Mt. Lemon. The other time was along a canal beneath the Lake Ocheechobee dike along the FL Trail. There were winds gusting to 50 or 60mph buffeting the hexamid and I had to hold onto the trekking pole supporting the tent to keep the tent from collapsing. Fortunately, we knew the storm was coming and had a very good pitch using all the stake out points. Managed to keep the sleeping bag dry in both cases, even though I had to soak up some small puddled water.
BTW, plenty of room for me and my gear inside the Hexamid Plus.
My tent and my backpack are the heaviest aspects of my gear system. I plan on replacing the tent and then the bag gradually while on trail but the tent is certainly something I'd like to replace asap.
I'm strongly considering buying a zpacks tent but I 'm not sure whether to buy a tub bottom section. What are the odds my tent will get flooded on the AT without tub flooring?
I would say high. Bathtub floor is no guarantee though - Murphy strikes hard when your out in the woods. One other option though is your sleeping pad - I always use an inflatable pad for comfort, but it also does a good job of keeping my sleeping quilt up off of the ground. It's really a question of how much risk your comfortable with in a particular circumstance.