View Full Version : Stashing the pack
devoidapop
03-24-2017, 14:44
I have always made it a habit to drop my pack a few yard off trail when I take a short side trail for water or to scout a camping spot. I never worried about my stuff, but last month I was hiking with my brother and he looked at me like I was crazy. If you saw a pack left at a trail crossing would you assume the owner is coming back for it? Is there a sign I should leave, like a shirt in a car window?
glenlawson
03-24-2017, 15:01
I'm a hiker. I assume the owner is coming back. Especially if it is left near a side trail or water trail. I wouldn't do this within a couple of miles of a road crossing.
When you say you drop it off a "few yards" I take this to mean 15 to 20 feet and likely on the other side of a tree from the trail. I think this is a reasonable precaution if you are going to hike a quarter mile downhill to get water.
Slo-go'en
03-24-2017, 15:45
I'll stash my pack off into the woods if I'm going to a store a bit down the road. I'll walk a 100 feet up the trail, makes sure no one is watching and stash it so it can't be seen from the trail. And hope I remember where I put it :)
If it's just to go get water, I'll leave it leaning against a tree at the trail junction. Most of the people that might come by already know me and the pack. Of course, you don't want to do this in an area where there is a lot of bear activity. That's how packs get "stolen".
HooKooDooKu
03-24-2017, 16:03
While I don't know about the bulk of the AT, in certain locals, technically leaving a pack unattended is illegal.
Well... not so much as leaving a pack unattended, but leaving food unattended. The scenario places like GSMNP is trying to avoid is a bear finding the pack.
No way. I ALWAYS keep it with me. I tend to go very light so it's not such a big deal, but I ain't taking a chance. What if I slide off the Blue Blaze and break my ass?
cmoulder
03-24-2017, 16:27
Chipmunks can bore a hole in a pack in no time flat.
FeistyNZChick
03-24-2017, 16:27
Yep it is what hikers do .... I would assume you were off to the loo
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saltysack
03-24-2017, 16:47
Hell no....asking for trouble....if carrying a bear can and the can was well hidden that's ok...but not any delicate things such as a pack and it's contents!
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Sandy of PA
03-24-2017, 16:50
My pack goes into the bushes with me, never unattended.
soumodeler
03-24-2017, 17:25
A bear can run away with an unattended pack in seconds. Take it with you every time.
devoidapop
03-24-2017, 18:52
I'm embarrassed now. I figured my brother was worried about bipedal thieves. Never thought of the other trail critters. I'll be hanging my food while I take side trips in the future. Thanks WB!!
AfterParty
03-24-2017, 18:58
That's like leaving a BMW running with keys in it. I paid way to much for my gear to be left unattended. Plus if you break a leg or slice open yourself your shelter and first aid kit are now not with you. Its irresponsible and opens up your situation to Murphy. Or a bear runs off with your rain gear.
devoidapop
03-24-2017, 19:23
That's like leaving a BMW running with keys in it. I paid way to much for my gear to be left unattended. Plus if you break a leg or slice open yourself your shelter and first aid kit are now not with you. Its irresponsible and opens up your situation to Murphy. Or a bear runs off with your rain gear.
We may part ways here. I didn't pay way too much for any of my gear and I don't, as a rule, carry anything into the woods that I can't afford to lose. I also don't take on a dangerous scramble without my gear, so my risk of injury while looking for water or a campsite is probably minimal. And yes, I know I just jinxed my next trip.
cmoulder
03-24-2017, 20:15
Maybe you can afford to lose it from a monetary standpoint, but if it's cool and it starts raining while you're taking care of business and you come back to your pack to get your $12 FroggToggs jacket and your pack is gone, you could find yourself in a pile of $#!+ much larger than the one you just left in the cathole! :o
It ain't just about the money... just sayin'...
StubbleJumper
03-24-2017, 20:34
I must say that I'm gobsmacked by some of the posts in this thread. Leaving your overnight gear in a lean-to while you're day hiking is a routine practice in the Adirondacks. People tend to hike 5 or so miles into the park, stow their pack in the lean-to, and then head out to bag a few peaks. After their day hike, they return to the lean-to, and set up camp for the night. If you don't leave food in your pack, bears and other critters have no interest in it. And my experience is that the few other hikers who have gone to the trouble of hiking 5 miles in from the trailhead are already carrying more weight than they typically want, and so they have no interest in stealing your gear and adding to their own weight.
Personally, when I'm in the 'dacks I don't worry about it at all. I always hike with a day-pack containing the 10 essentials, my car keys and my cash. I've never had a problem with people or critters messing with my main pack, but I guess there's always a risk that I could return to the lean-to and find that my overnight gear is missing. But even at that, the worst outcome would be a walk back to my car with my headlamp and the need to drop $1,000 or so on some new gear.
MuddyWaters
03-24-2017, 20:38
A bear can run away with an unattended pack in seconds. Take it with you every time.
+
And losing $1000 -2000 of gear, would really ruin most peoples day, week, or year. Theres really no excuse to be lazy.
fastfoxengineering
03-24-2017, 20:42
I may be guilty of dropping my pack to bag a peak real quick. But I always felt uneasy about it. It nice when someone doesnt want to make the climb and volunteers to hang back with the packs. On a thru hike. I'd be real addiment about keeping my gear close. After all it's my only possessions
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Met a guy on the trail near Sunfish Pond who was looking for his pack. Seems he was fishing and had hid his pack near the trail. He came back to get it and a bear was routing through it, the bear took off with the pack.
Not only do I always take my pack with me including going off trail for a bathroom break or going for water. Even if I'm going into a grocery store or restaurant I take it if allowed. if not I try to be where I can at least keep an eye on it. I also keep it in my tent at night. That being said when I was thru-hiking I would leave it with other thru-hikers I knew, but never with someone I didn't.
I remember a guy telling me how he did that, and then he saw a bear as he was walking back to his pack. Never again. Personally, I wouldn't trust my pack out of my sight.
Moosling
03-24-2017, 21:05
No way ready too many stories about bears running off with packs, like others have said mice, squirrels, chipmunks would get in there in seconds if you left a snack in a pocket. I wonder if the heat from wearing it would attract ticks as well?
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This is extremely common on the AT. If we needed water and the trail to the source was steep or long, we dropped our pack right there and walked down to get water. Saw this all the time. Also saw packs left while folks went into the woods to do their business. Didn't hear of anything getting stolen on the trail. In town would be different but was still extremely common to see a bunch backpacks leaning on the wall at pizza hut while everyone was inside eating. There were few to no stores or restaurants that allowed packs inside. Not sure what folks think they are going to do. Take turns? Nobody gets in the way of hiker hunger.
I have always made it a habit to drop my pack a few yard off trail when I take a short side trail for water or to scout a camping spot.
It's rare for me to be separated from within the immediate vicinity of my pack but I will do it. I'm of RmcPeak's opinion. My pack is normally 20 lbs or less in a low volume UL package so it usually goes with me. I will ditch it to get water downhill or bear bag it as I have at the bottom of Half Dome before ascending or bear bag it if I'm doing a side summit like Mt Thielsen or Mt hood.
If you saw a pack left at a trail crossing would you assume the owner is coming back for it?
Yes it is usually obvious what folks have done
Is there a sign I should leave, like a shirt in a car window?
Some do but it depends on the situation and the trail/route.
cmoulder
03-25-2017, 08:06
Let's say said pack has been left by its owner and I walk by and chipmunks are circling and ready to start boring holes into it, or a bear is approaching with intent to take it and rip it to shreds...
Is it my responsibility to guard the pack until the owner comes back or to get into a bear encounter over someone else's pack?
Personally, I think I would put some effort into it, call out loud to try to alert the owner but not risk injury if things escalated....
devoidapop
03-25-2017, 08:18
Let's say said pack has been left by its owner and I walk by and chipmunks are circling and ready to start boring holes into it, or a bear is approaching with intent to take it and rip it to shreds...
Is it my responsibility to guard the pack until the owner comes back or to get into a bear encounter over someone else's pack?
No, if a bear is getting after some food I think you better go the opposite way. I can replace a pack and all of it's contents. I can't replace you. As for the voracious gangs of chipmunk vandals, that's your call.
garlic08
03-25-2017, 08:35
Mountaineer Gerry Roach has published an absolute rule I always keep in mind, "Never leave your lunch behind."
I've neglected that rule a few times, and have paid the price a couple of times too often. Never mind bears. Damn ravens, even ermine got in there once and did a lot of damage, in literally a few minutes with me thirty feet away.
Slo-go'en
03-25-2017, 11:25
It really is a judgement call at the time. Leaving a pack unattended with food in it at a popular lunch spot or campsite is not a good idea as local critters know this is a place to look for scraps. While it's possible a critter could come along and find a pack left at some random spot off the trail, the chances are reasonably slim.
I left a power bar on a picnic table at Big Meadows and walked away to say hello to some hikers I knew. I happened to turn around just in time to see a big crow swoop down, grab the power bar (which I had just paid $2 for) and fly off. I chased him over a hill and found a whole pile of candy and power bar wrappers scattered about.
peakbagger
03-25-2017, 13:44
There was photo of pine marten up in the whites in recent thread, the reason it was hanging around was waiting for someone to leave their pack. They can gnaw a hole through the pack, get whatever is good and be gone in seconds. I expect there are plenty of other food habituated critters of various types including bears that also have figured out the risk is worth the reward.
ImAfraidOfBears
03-25-2017, 17:51
Mountaineer Gerry Roach has published an absolute rule I always keep in mind, "Never leave your lunch behind."
I've neglected that rule a few times, and have paid the price a couple of times too often. Never mind bears. Damn ravens, even ermine got in there once and did a lot of damage, in literally a few minutes with me thirty feet away.
Ravens are incredibly expedient in snagging unattended food.
I was hiking along the beamer trail on the colorado in the grand canyon and stopped by the river for lunch. Seeing my blocks of cheese (2) was looking quite soft, I thought I was being clever wedging it in between some rocks by the ice cold colorado river to firm it up a bit. As I was sitting there making lunch, a raven swooped down, grabbed one block of cheese in the beak, and double fisted the second block in it's talon and flew off.
I didn't feel quite as clever then.
peakbagger
03-25-2017, 18:06
One thing not mentioned is that many folks never let their cash and ID out of their sight
Another Kevin
03-25-2017, 19:19
The last time I walked away from my pack was to swim. I hung it in a tree a few dozen yards from the lake. It was a weird feeling, being miles from anywhere with just my water shoes. Literally naked in the wilderness.
Even though it's common around here to make a base camp and go off for a day peak-bagging, it's just not how I roll. I always store food properly or don't leave it. That includes taking my food bag with me on nighttime outings if I've decided to sleep with it. I'm also not comfortable just walking away from my gear.
Mountaineer Gerry Roach has published an absolute rule I always keep in mind, "Never leave your lunch behind."
I've neglected that rule a few times, and have paid the price a couple of times too often. Never mind bears. Damn ravens, even ermine got in there once and did a lot of damage, in literally a few minutes with me thirty feet away.
I always keep my money, credit/debit cards, ID, lighter, knife and headlamp on my person...that way if I'm separated from my pack I have some basic resources.
swjohnsey
03-26-2017, 12:18
I have cached my pack. There aren't many animals on the trail, bear or otherwise. They are generally around people concentrations because that is where the food is. I don't think I would leave valuables like money, id, phones, cameras in a cached pack.
Puddlefish
03-26-2017, 12:54
This is a good topic to remind me to pay attention. Early in my hike, I was with a trail buddy, and would leave my pack with him as I scrambled down some horrific slope to get water for us.
One day, I got miles ahead of my friend, I left my pack at the trail junction to climb Shuckstack tower. I wasn't at all worried about people stealing my stuff, but I completely spaced the concept that animals might invade my pack, with possible harm to the animals long term. I got lucky, but it's really best not to rely on luck too often.
swjohnsey
03-26-2017, 13:57
Yeah, I spend a lot of time worrying about poisoning a chipmunk with twinkies or a hunny bun. It is probably not a good idea to leave you pack unattended around shelters or where folks a likely to be. The critters get accustomed to people food.
Puddlefish
03-26-2017, 14:08
Yeah, I spend a lot of time worrying about poisoning a chipmunk with twinkies or a hunny bun. It is probably not a good idea to leave you pack unattended around shelters or where folks a likely to be. The critters get accustomed to people food.
I'm less worried about poisoning a chipmunk as habituating bears to packs as a food source which will eventually get them shot.
swjohnsey
03-26-2017, 16:57
Your chances of seeing a bear in the woods is about the same as getting hit by a meteorite.
johnspenn
03-26-2017, 17:28
Your chances of seeing a bear in the woods is about the same as getting hit by a meteorite.
That's not exactly true. Bears I've seen: two. Meteorites I've been hit by: zero.
There are plenty of bears in the Appalachian Mountains, and chances are if you spend enough time there you will see one or more.
Don't make it easy for them to take your food and/or become habituated to doing so.
soumodeler
03-26-2017, 17:37
Your chances of seeing a bear in the woods is about the same as getting hit by a meteorite.
I must just be unlucky then. I have seen more bears than I have been hit by meteorites.
To those that leave their packs unattended while running off to do something, I have a question. Do you hang your food at night? If so, why? Just wondering if people are being consistent in what they say they are doing.:-?
swjohnsey
03-26-2017, 18:21
You find bears where food is, national parks, shelters, garbage dumps. I've seen bears on the trail, in parks, at shelters. I sleep with my food.
colorado_rob
03-26-2017, 19:34
Your chances of seeing a bear in the woods is about the same as getting hit by a meteorite. My score:
Bear's I've seen in the woods, something like 20 (12 on the AT, one in CA, the rest in Colorado, including two encounters where my unattended pack was shredded and food taken/eaten)
Hit by meteorites: zero, though I hold out hope for at least a close encounter !
On topic: if you find you need to dump your pack to visit features just off the trail, your pack is too damn heavy. I rarely notice mine. Strive for this, it will make you happy.
My score:
Bear's I've seen in the woods, something like 20 (12 on the AT, one in CA, the rest in Colorado, including two encounters where my unattended pack was shredded and food taken/eaten)
Hit by meteorites: zero, though I hold out hope for at least a close encounter !
On topic: if you find you need to dump your pack to visit features just off the trail, your pack is too damn heavy. I rarely notice mine. Strive for this, it will make you happy.
I don't think I have ever dropped my pack unattended. Couldn't agree more with the bolded part.
cmoulder
03-26-2017, 21:36
Your chances of seeing a bear in the woods is about the same as getting hit by a meteorite.
There is only one documented case in human history of somebody getting hit by a meteorite (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/02/130220-russia-meteorite-ann-hodges-science-space-hit/), and she survived.
I've seen 5-6 bears over the years, so another statistic bites the dust. :D
devoidapop
03-26-2017, 21:51
To those that leave their packs unattended while running off to do something, I have a question. Do you hang your food at night? If so, why? Just wondering if people are being consistent in what they say they are doing.:-?
I do hang my food at night and as noted, will be hanging my food when I drop my pack for a side trip in the future. Seems pretty obvious now but it never occurred to me before. I guess I've just always been lucky.
swjohnsey
03-26-2017, 22:30
There is only one documented case in human history of somebody getting hit by a meteorite (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/02/130220-russia-meteorite-ann-hodges-science-space-hit/), and she survived.
I've seen 5-6 bears over the years, so another statistic bites the dust. :D
Were did you see 'em? I've seem more than that but all in parks or at shelters.
cmoulder
03-26-2017, 23:02
Canada (Algonquin Prov Park, 1), Catskills (3-4... while hiking out one night, vicinity of Giant Ledge, Woodland Valley), Harriman State Park, NY (3), Waywayanda State Park, NJ (3-4, plus one mamma w/cubs, all while doing MTB), Shining Rock/Pisgah many years ago.......
Food stolen only twice, once by a Pine Marten in the Daks that unzipped a pack pocket, and by, you guessed it, a chipmunk that tore a hole in my nearly-new McHale pack (Colden lake, Daks). Chipmunks have also done damage to friends' packs, and similar to my Pine Marten incident, in the north Cascades (Mt. Baker) I had a friend whose pack was unzipped by a raven that flew off with a bag of crackers. And a huge food haul for our rather large group in Canada was absolutely ravaged by flying squirrels.
So I guess I underestimated a bit. :)
BTW here's a photo I took of the actual pine marten ref'd above... brazen little bastard that came back for more.
38872
Trailweaver
03-26-2017, 23:13
swjohnsey, you must not have bears in Texas, but believe me, if you hike the AT, you are going to see bears. I saw a bear the very first time I hiked on the AT, and it was within the first hour of the hike. I wasn't frightened, particularly, as I half expected to see one, but just surprised that I saw one so close by, and so soon after I started hiking.
Smithereens
03-27-2017, 02:47
Your chances of seeing a bear in the woods is about the same as getting hit by a meteorite.
Huh? I've had a bear bump my head through the tent wall in the middle of the night and had a couple of other instances where they have popped onto the trail either behind or in front of me. Couldn't tell how many I have seen while out hunting, hiking and motorcycle woods riding.
Meteorites? I had the good fortune (only an amateur astronomer would say that! :) ) to have a small meteorite buzz past about 10 to 20 feet over my head one night! I heard it and saw it (faint yellow sparks) fly past and heard it hit the wet ground... betcha' I spent two months searching for that thing and never found it.
Traveler
03-27-2017, 08:28
Seems to me basic common sense would come into play here. "If I leave my pack and wander away from it, someone or something has the opportunity to take it, if I take it with me there is no opportunity to take it".
There are two choices, risk losing it, or don't. I prefer the latter, but apparently many people discount it.
Hikingjim
03-27-2017, 09:29
I think the consensus is fairly clear, except for a couple that think there are no bears or anything that will touch your stuff.
There's some risk, judge accordingly based on the circumstance.
On a rocky peak I met a guy that was looking for his pack for 3 hours. He stashed it somewhere and had no idea where after his lunch! I got there 2.5 hours in, ate a snack while wondering what the hell he was doing. Eventually he found it just past his "search range", but that was after miles of scrambling up and down the same small area. whoops
He was staggering from all the scrambling and panicking because his "itinerary" was way behind. Hiked with him a bit and ditched him at the nearest flat area that he could throw up his tent..
cmoulder
03-27-2017, 10:27
ditched him at the nearest flat area that he could throw up his tent..
Good call. ;)
I also do not understand the unnecessary risk, no matter how small. In the risk/consequences scenario perhaps the risk is small but the consequences can be very dire.
garlic08
03-27-2017, 10:32
...Meteorites? I had the good fortune (only an amateur astronomer would say that! :) ) to have a small meteorite buzz past about 10 to 20 feet over my head one night! I heard it and saw it (faint yellow sparks) fly past and heard it hit the wet ground... betcha' I spent two months searching for that thing and never found it.
Holy crap! You nearly earned your trail name right there.
I once saw the yellow sparks fairly high above me, not audible, and that was extremely impressive. I was with a teenage friend (I was in my 50s), and he exclaimed that he'd never seen anything like that in his entire life! I told him he never would again.
I think the consensus is fairly clear, except for a couple that think there are no bears or anything that will touch your stuff.
There's some risk, judge accordingly based on the circumstance.
On a rocky peak I met a guy that was looking for his pack for 3 hours. He stashed it somewhere and had no idea where after his lunch! I got there 2.5 hours in, ate a snack while wondering what the hell he was doing. Eventually he found it just past his "search range", but that was after miles of scrambling up and down the same small area. whoops
He was staggering from all the scrambling and panicking because his "itinerary" was way behind. Hiked with him a bit and ditched him at the nearest flat area that he could throw up his tent..
And now the rest of the story. HikingJim being the mischievious little devil he is, found the poor fellas pack and move it a 1/4 mile down the trail which was just outside the search range. Then he sat back, took a two hour lunch as he watch the search. He ended up having to ditch the hiker because the hiker was getting made because Jim won't tell him why he couldn't stop laughing.
Now you know the rest of the story.
BuckeyeBill
03-27-2017, 13:45
And now the rest of the story. HikingJim being the mischievious little devil he is, found the poor fellas pack and move it a 1/4 mile down the trail which was just outside the search range. Then he sat back, took a two hour lunch as he watch the search. He ended up having to ditch the hiker because the hiker was getting made because Jim won't tell him why he couldn't stop laughing.
Now you know the rest of the story.
That's humorous, but now I have coffee all over my monitor.
Your chances of seeing a bear in the woods is about the same as getting hit by a meteorite.My chances must be pretty good like others here, we saw 5 bears in the first 70 miles of the AT in Georgia. Actually they were all between Poplar Stamp Gap and Blue Mountain Shelter. So 5 bears in 6 miles give or take.
Seems to me basic common sense would come into play here. "If I leave my pack and wander away from it, someone or something has the opportunity to take it, if I take it with me there is no opportunity to take it".
There are two choices, risk losing it, or don't. I prefer the latter, but apparently many people discount it.
+1. too much property accountability beat into me.