Anyone gone from a hammock to a tent?

[miko0618]

I have hammock camped for the last 4 straight years. I'll be honest, I didn't sleep well. I felt like I was a really light sleeper in it. This year I was going to try an air pad and a tent. I hot a static v lux. I used it twice with good results but last weekend it sucked. I'd wake up every hour or two and roll over. Maybe it was a bad night. Overall, I can see the pros and cons to both. In the tent, I really enjoyed the privacy and the ability to adjust how much of the elements you were exposed to. The hammock seems easier to find a place to set up. For lounging and reading, the hammock is eternally comfortable. I am torn. Is there anyone out there with the same dilemma? Or has anyone been a long time hammocker and gone to a tent?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[eggymane]

I switch between the two regularly, I can't always make up my mind so why fight it! There's some situations why I like a hammock or a tent over the other, but I finally found my most modular system that works for me. I use a hammock with a cuben tarp, that way if I want to hammock, I can; if I want to sleep on the ground I can, because a tent is basically a tarp to keep out the elements and my cuben tarp does just that. When I carry a hammock I always have a sleeping pad and ground cloth with me anyway, so for minimal weight I have a very modular system.

[fastfoxengineering]

Long time hammocker, experienced tenter here.

My first backpacking shelter was a Hennessy Hammock setup.

I still use hammocks. But on longer backpacking trips, I found a ground setup fits my style of hiking better.

Some trips just call for different equipment.

I have actually sold all my hammocks and other shelters in preparation for a thru hike aside for one rig. And it's a ground setup.

My next hammock will probably be a diy. And it will be more for car camping imo. Something really comfy and warm with a bunch of bells and whistles. Prob weigh in a little over two pounds for the whole setup.

My thru hiking shelters weighs 14oz.

But yeah, I have gone from hammocking to tenting and in between.

I have found it IS easier for me to camp in COLD weather while under a tarp or in a tent.

Throw down a ground sheet. A thin ccf pad. A neo air xtherm. And a 0 degree mummy bag. I'm warm, cozy, and comfortable.

Never been that easy for me in a hammock in that cold of weather. Shug does it on the regular though.

I like both hammocks and ground tarping. Truth is.. I've been comfortable doing both. And I've been uncomfortable doing both.



Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[Boardin12]

Just switched from a hammock to tent. Haven't used it as long as you have. There are definitely pros and cons to it. It seemed I could never get everything arranged right in the hammock. I used a foam pad underneath me and it seemed it would always slide out from under me. Obviously an underquilt would have been better but I never liked the hammock good enough to get one. One thing I noticed is I would wake up sore. I think it was from the sides of the hammock around my body. Another thing I noticed with a hammock is it seems you can never find two trees just right to set it up with when you are ready to make camp. Doesn't happen when your hiking, there is always a perfect spot to make camp when you don't need to make camp!!!I just got my tent about two weeks ago so can't tell you the advantages of that. Tent seems less complicated, just set up tent, blow up air pad, get in sleeping bag and crash. Dunno. Got the Big Agnes Fly Creek UL3 cuz my wife always goes with me. Less complicated to get two in a tent than two in a hammock!!lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FormerLurkerLibby]

I slept on my hew Hennessy a few times in me yard before setting off for a week long hike in Florida this winter. As a woman I didn't like the lack of privacy in the hammock. No place to get dressed or tend to personal libations. I also slept poorly on nights when using it as a hammock. My compromise was to string it up low enough to be on the ground like a tent. I carried a plastic sheet as a ground sheet and a foam air mattress.

My hammock straps failed during the Florida hike so I returned it to REI when I got home. Bought a TarpTent. It's the new one, a Merlin? Will be setting out on the Colorado trail in a few weeks so we will see....

[Rex Clifton]

I go both ways (hammock versus tent, that is) and like them equally well. What I have gravitated to is using a tent in the shoulder seasons and a hammock during the summer, where the hammock sleeps a much cooler. I sleep about the same in both, which is not that well. Then again, I don't sleep well at home, either.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Slo-go'en]

Lots of things can affect how well you sleep. Rain and wind keep me up, or wake me up periodically. Or if it's a little too cold for my set up. I toss and turn during the night as a matter of course anyway - no matter where I sleep. Which drives me crazy in a hammock, since that's hard to do.

[AfterParty]

I will take my hammock tarp a hammock gear hex I also have a grizzbeak so can put doors on one end and pitch the other low, basically looks like a protrail and a bivy if the place requires it. The grand canyon for example I perfer my hammock. I have conditioned my self to sleeping on the floor on my xlite. I started getting back issues after about 4 months. Went to the hammock and it has been great so far. I will not sleep poorly on the AT.

[Kalaallit]

I started out in a tent, switched to a hammock, and am in the process of switching back. Got my first overnight without the hammock in a while coming up, so I'll see how I do.
I love my hammock. Comes in at 13 oz with suspension, and is 11 feet, so it gives me a lot of comfort (I am 6'2, so I need a long one). I take it with me all the time when I go hiking. Takes about two minutes to set up, and is extremely comfortable in short periods of time. However, I'm a stomach sleeper, so I just couldn't fall asleep in a hammock. It's a great thing to have and take with you on overnights or day hikes, maybe even week-long trips like the Wonderland Trail, but for stomach sleepers like me, hammocks just don't really work out.

[Skyline]

I can see the allure of the hammock. Easier to find campsites, less weight. But I tried one at Trail Days and there is no way I could sleep in one. I toss and turn too much, and cannot sleep on my back. So I have to put it in the category (for me) of being one of those ideas that sound great on paper but don't work in real life. YMMV.

[daddytwosticks]

Switched over to a nice hammock setup back several years. I toss and turn a lot when I sleep, so the hammock didn't work for me. Plus the set up was always so finicky. Loved the ability to sleep wherever there were two trees. I have gone back to the ground in a conventional double-wall one person tent and am very happy. :)

[fastfoxengineering]

Yeah die hard hammock hangers tend to never talk about any negatives associated with hammock hanging. Don't get me wrong, I like hammocks, but there have been nights I wish I was on the ground.

On a night when I'm restless and can't sleep. Body can't relax, tossing and turning. I feel more uncomfortable in a hammock than on the ground on those nights. I can't stretch out in the hammock like on the ground. Sometimes it feels confining because you pretty much have to sleep in one position.

And, all though I'm not a regular shelter dweller. On trails with shelters. I have been dissapointed a night or two I couldn't just throw down in the shelter cause I didn't have my ground pad.

I'm too much of a gram weenie to carry both. And haven't figured out the pad in a the hammock thing. I like underquilts.

I will say, I always smile when I wake up in my hammock and it's pouring out though. High and dry is one of the biggest positives of hammock hanging.

Cold wind can be tougher to deal with though.


Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[Mr. Bumpy]

I switched back and forth for a few years but mostly staying in hammock. Last fall I did the foothills trail in a tent and wished I were hanging. For me it a quality of sleep issue - I sleep like a rock and seldom get up in hammock but on a pad I can toss and turn.
My hammock set up include a synthetic under quilt and 3/4 z-rest and a wing extender type device which I have had down into the mid 20's. The set up is a little heavier than it could be nut I think it is a best of both worlds in that if I want to be on the ground or in a shelter I have it covered.

[Pondjumpr]

One issue I found with Hammocks is versatility. You either hang or.... you hang... meaning, unless you actually use a pad in your hammock, which is certainly, IMO, no where near as efficient or effective as an under quilt, you can not go to ground comfortably. Also, in GSMNP, correct me if I am wrong but there are many areas that you are not allowed to hang and other areas where you are required to use 2" straps to protect trees. With a hammock, you will still need your sleeping bag (quilt), pad or UQ, tarp, hammock, bug net, cordage, etc.
I tried the pad as a base in a hammock and didn't like it. I know some use it but it wasn't for me. Therefore, I would need another option if I ever used a shelter on the AT while using a hammock. Just a few random thoughts....

[joec]

I switched over to hammocks years ago and would not go back. However, I have put off the Smokies due to the park rules and am considering buying a one man tent to use when I do the Smokies, which will start this summer. My understanding if the shelter is full, you can tent camp around the shelter. I would rather sleep off to myself.

[johnspenn]

I sleep in hammocks, exclusively so far. I am considering ground options, because there are some places you can't hang that i want to experience, like GSMNP along the AT, and the floor of the Grand Canyon.

I spent six years in the Marine Corps as an infantryman so I know what it's like to sleep on the ground.

I would never willingly sleep on the ground given an option, but do recognize that hammocks aren't for everyone. Each individual has to decide which option works best for them.

[Time Zone]

I sleep in hammocks, exclusively so far. I am considering ground options, because there are some places you can't hang that i want to experience, like GSMNP along the AT, ....


Sure about that? I thought that, although you are required to stay in shelters, if they're full, you can tent outside - and for purposes of this rule, a hammock is treated as a tent. Thus, the strategy for those wanting to avoid having to stay in the shelter is to arrive too late to find a space in it. May not work in winter - but by now, maybe it would.

You can't hang your suspension on the shelter, but you can set up your hammock in the vicinity (as you would a tent).

That's my understanding. It could be wrong.

BTW, put me down for probably going back to tenting over hammocking. I want it to work, because I like being off the rocky, rooty, muddy ground, but I just haven't slept as well as in a tent. Still trying, but not sure for how much longer. Not being a back-sleeper makes it tough.

[QuietStorm]

I started out in a tent. I switched to a hammock and loved it. My first hammock was a Hennessy. I'm a side sleeper and found I could easily find a good fetal position in the hammock. I also have an Eno single-nest but am not thrilled with it--too short and too narrow. I am looking for a double-layer Warbonnet Blackbird to give me the option of using a pad instead of an underquilt. I have an Aerie 20 degree sleep system, and with my EE top quilt have been very comfortable through the winter. I don't expect to ever go back to tents.

[Just Bill]

LOL... definitely not a constructive conversation at Hammock Forums.

I have gotten into hammocks very heavily(literally)... but from this side of the conversation (LD backpacking, weight considerations, functionality and going to ground).
That said... I have come to appreciate the very diverse makeup of the Hammock crowd and it's helped with my designs overall. More importantly... it's been very refreshing to talk with Scout Dads, Hunters, fisherman, or just plain old outdoor users who simply are happy getting out and having a trip. I really love going to the local group hang. It's a whopping 3 mile walk in and we worry more about what food, whiskey and scotch will be there than who brought what gear or how. It's nice.

Anywho...

I had/have the same issues most of you had:

There ARE times you would want to go to ground for LD hiking... sleeping in a shelter, staying on a bald, scoring a free town stop on somebodies porch, sleeping under a table at an AMC hut or just flat out cowboy camping in a beautiful spot. Yes you could work around any and all of these... but like most hikers, I like to stay flexible and open to adventure and opportunity. It can be nice to never know where you will end up.

Weight (and bulk) does matter... though sparing a pound for comfort is reasonable, especially considering advances in the rest of our gear. And like many I found that my 1/8" torso light pad scraps I used in my 20's gave way to 12-16oz air pads to sleep on the ground. And I don't care how much you want to argue it... a poly cro ground sheet, tarp, foam pad and quilt is still the lightest thing you can take. But once you have based your system around a 1lb air pad... that changes your outlook a bit.

Winter... hanging a hammock in winter is more a novelty than practical in my experience... if we left the ground to be comfy... well when there is plenty of comfy snow to sleep on and perfectly good pads we already own to insulate us perfectly well... At some point deep winter hanging feels more like a badge of honor or proof of concept than a viable plan. If you need to add a pulk to your system just to carry all your sleeping gear...:rolleyes:

Pads... Pads do suck in a gathered end hammock. They suck less in a double layer. They pretty much don't suck at all in a bridge. Underquilts are amazing... especially in a gathered end. But they sure make about the crappiest sleeping pad I've ever seen... That said when i was testing my fancy new winter pod at the Harriman hang a few winters back... I was forced to go to ground... and i slept on a 20x20x10" tapered zrest sit pad and my pack and slept in a ball quite nice and warm... so it's not impossible to ground out with an UQ... just silly. However... LD hikers are used to sleeping on a pad. A pad you can lay on without any uneven ground, pressure, or things sticking into you or crawling on you... well that's a pretty good improvement. So I think the pad issue tends to be overblown for many backpackers. If you are a dedicated hanger, or a casual outdoor user with options- I'd take an UQ any day of the week. But for LD hiking where you might not just desire a pad, but need one then a pad in a hammock is more comfy than a pad on the ground. And you can use "less" pad than you might need to be anywhere close to as comfy on the ground so there is some weight to be saved there. I have an M10 hammock that weighs roughly 6 ounces "tree to tree" I can hang that with a 1/8" thinlight pad in it and still end up at less weight than my Large neo-air. I wouldn't do a thru with that rig but the point is that there are some times that a hammock can actually be lighter if you're talking a fast and light weekend.

Sleep positions... My back is messed up, I have a torn rotor cuff at the moment and I can't sleep for more than an hour or so in anything without rolling over, that includes a memory foam mattress. Fortunately years of camping out have accustomed me to falling right back to sleep if i even wake up in the first place. I can sleep in a ball (fetal) or side in a gathered end... so wouldn't call that a deal breaker, though much more than a weekend and I'm done with a GE. But I can sleep in any position I want in a bridge. I think GE hammocks can work for folks... I think you should start there. But if you do and it's not quite working out for you. A bridge is like a floating cot- though not all bridges are created equal or readily available.

Fiddling... when a gathered end is working just right, and all the parts and pieces are hung just so and your last micro adjustment complete there is nothing more comfortable. When it's the end of the day and you hiked 20 miles and want to throw your pad down and pass out... nothing worse than a fiddly hammock. I found bridge hammocks (specifically recessed bar bridges) to be the middle ground. They are way more forgiving of pitch mistakes or errors and go up pretty reliably and consistently. So even when you blow the pitch because you're on a hill, or tired, or don't care... they hang just shy of perfect with little work. A half ass gathered end pitch and no matter how tired I was it seemed after the nap monster had been slain I would get up and finish hanging it right at midnight. Not so with a bridge.

Tent feel... A tent is a portable house, a room with walls, a roof, and a floor. That's nice. While you can start piling on the accessories and complicating the pitch with hammocks and doors, and floors, and beaks, and pole mods- you're not going to beat the simplicity and ease of a freestanding tent. Cuts the wind, the bugs, the rain. You can sit up, sort gear, you name it. You can cook food in the vestibule. You can have sex in a tent. You can share it with a partner, or play a game of cards with your kiddo. Nobody is getting in and out without the "ZZZRRRUPPP" of the zipper waking you up. There is still plenty good to say about tents. I think the only reason to abandon one (if you like it) is if you are not sleeping well on the ground. I don't think one has to do with the other... though there are several hikers (female especially) who value the privacy and security of a tent over the sleep factors. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So long story short...
I don't think this is as cut and dry an issue as some make it.
Much like LD hikers can focus on weight to their detriment... hammock folks can focus too much on comfort. We each have our soapbox but I think there is some very solid middle ground.
If you take a variety of trip types- you'll likely use a variety of gear... no magic bullet here. But I find that a bridge is a pretty solid hammock option that works well with a pad and fits better than most options for LD hiking style trips. It's not a piece of gear that is highly used or familiar for either user base.

I have been working with some hammock forums folks though who were "done" with camping because of sleep issues. That blows. I was in scouts and I am talking to guys trying to get involved or go with the kids who struggle for that reason... reminds me of some of the dad's who didn't participate in the camping trips when I was a kid. So if at any point any piece of gear or lack of gear is stopping you from going- it becomes the most critical piece of gear IMO. I think that's what many of the hammock zealots are trying to get across to some of us UL folks. There are people who literally had their lives changed switching to a hammock... that's pretty cool.

I hadn't planned on it, but the last few months I adapted some of my UL bridge designs (i have the lightest bridge hammock in the world) for big guys. They are still in testing but i have a dozen folks, some as big as 360lbs and 6'6" tall testing these. In this bridge I can sleep in any position, even belly sleeping. It was originally designed to use with my 6 year old and a Exped Hyperlight Duo Pad that works perfect for us. And works out lighter than carrying two pads and two quilts coincidentally. I basically built the bridge to hold the pad... but then I reached out to some of these "Big Boys" who either stopped camping or relegated themselves to car camping and tried to see if we could figure something out for them. (Bridge hammocks stop at 200-250lbs).

This product isn't available for sale beyond a few prototypes... and not trying to sell anybody here on it. Just showing it as an idea and concept of what is possible with hammocks. While many hammock users do back pack, and hammocks are on the LD trails more often... it's still a pretty new deal and there isn't a lot of focus or innovation on "alternative" designs IMO. I think there is much that could be done with hammocks and pads... And i don't mean laying your hammock on the ground and putting a rainfly on it... I mean a whole new shelter system built around a few base models of bridge type hammocks that work with, not against, a traditional sleeping pad.

To give you an idea- I do have some "UL" versions of the luxury bridge at 1lb 9 ounces. My first full coverage bug nets are coming in at 8.5 ounces, and my first full coverage rain fly at 16 ounces. You'd need your pad/quilt to finish that system but it's not insane and even compares favorably to the weight and bulk of some tents folks use solo.
But on the flipside... my micro bridge is under 10 ounces (9.125). Wear a headnet, add a 6-8 ounce poncho tarp, put in a 3/4 length wide air pad at 12 ounces and a SUL top quilt at 12 oz and you have a very versatile ground and air system with insulation at well under 3 pounds. In fact we are getting closer to the 2lb mark for that system all in... that's pretty cool and approaching the lightest ground systems available if you swap out a thin light pad for an air pad... but you can balance your system depending on how often you feel you may go to ground with your pad choices.


Here's the folder of photos and such that I have been sharing with my test group on the Big Guy/Luxury bridge.
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Apygyt54yYPwg4tUiQQ-mi9wtMxgFQ

I don't show off the micro bridge. :mad::p

Sorry for the rant... guess I missed talking to backpackers about hammocks as opposed to hammockers about backpacking, lol.

[Rex Clifton]

LOL... definitely not a constructive conversation at Hammock Forums.

I have gotten into hammocks very heavily(literally)... but from this side of the conversation (LD backpacking, weight considerations, functionality and going to ground).
That said... I have come to appreciate the very diverse makeup of the Hammock crowd and it's helped with my designs overall. More importantly... it's been very refreshing to talk with Scout Dads, Hunters, fisherman, or just plain old outdoor users who simply are happy getting out and having a trip. I really love going to the local group hang. It's a whopping 3 mile walk in and we worry more about what food, whiskey and scotch will be there than who brought what gear or how. It's nice.

Anywho...

I had/have the same issues most of you had:

There ARE times you would want to go to ground for LD hiking... sleeping in a shelter, staying on a bald, scoring a free town stop on somebodies porch, sleeping under a table at an AMC hut or just flat out cowboy camping in a beautiful spot. Yes you could work around any and all of these... but like most hikers, I like to stay flexible and open to adventure and opportunity. It can be nice to never know where you will end up.

Weight (and bulk) does matter... though sparing a pound for comfort is reasonable, especially considering advances in the rest of our gear. And like many I found that my 1/8" torso light pad scraps I used in my 20's gave way to 12-16oz air pads to sleep on the ground. And I don't care how much you want to argue it... a poly cro ground sheet, tarp, foam pad and quilt is still the lightest thing you can take. But once you have based your system around a 1lb air pad... that changes your outlook a bit.

Winter... hanging a hammock in winter is more a novelty than practical in my experience... if we left the ground to be comfy... well when there is plenty of comfy snow to sleep on and perfectly good pads we already own to insulate us perfectly well... At some point deep winter hanging feels more like a badge of honor or proof of concept than a viable plan. If you need to add a pulk to your system just to carry all your sleeping gear...:rolleyes:

Pads... Pads do suck in a gathered end hammock. They suck less in a double layer. They pretty much don't suck at all in a bridge. Underquilts are amazing... especially in a gathered end. But they sure make about the crappiest sleeping pad I've ever seen... That said when i was testing my fancy new winter pod at the Harriman hang a few winters back... I was forced to go to ground... and i slept on a 20x20x10" tapered zrest sit pad and my pack and slept in a ball quite nice and warm... so it's not impossible to ground out with an UQ... just silly. However... LD hikers are used to sleeping on a pad. A pad you can lay on without any uneven ground, pressure, or things sticking into you or crawling on you... well that's a pretty good improvement. So I think the pad issue tends to be overblown for many backpackers. If you are a dedicated hanger, or a casual outdoor user with options- I'd take an UQ any day of the week. But for LD hiking where you might not just desire a pad, but need one then a pad in a hammock is more comfy than a pad on the ground. And you can use "less" pad than you might need to be anywhere close to as comfy on the ground so there is some weight to be saved there. I have an M10 hammock that weighs roughly 6 ounces "tree to tree" I can hang that with a 1/8" thinlight pad in it and still end up at less weight than my Large neo-air. I wouldn't do a thru with that rig but the point is that there are some times that a hammock can actually be lighter if you're talking a fast and light weekend.

Sleep positions... My back is messed up, I have a torn rotor cuff at the moment and I can't sleep for more than an hour or so in anything without rolling over, that includes a memory foam mattress. Fortunately years of camping out have accustomed me to falling right back to sleep if i even wake up in the first place. I can sleep in a ball (fetal) or side in a gathered end... so wouldn't call that a deal breaker, though much more than a weekend and I'm done with a GE. But I can sleep in any position I want in a bridge. I think GE hammocks can work for folks... I think you should start there. But if you do and it's not quite working out for you. A bridge is like a floating cot- though not all bridges are created equal or readily available.

Fiddling... when a gathered end is working just right, and all the parts and pieces are hung just so and your last micro adjustment complete there is nothing more comfortable. When it's the end of the day and you hiked 20 miles and want to throw your pad down and pass out... nothing worse than a fiddly hammock. I found bridge hammocks (specifically recessed bar bridges) to be the middle ground. They are way more forgiving of pitch mistakes or errors and go up pretty reliably and consistently. So even when you blow the pitch because you're on a hill, or tired, or don't care... they hang just shy of perfect with little work. A half ass gathered end pitch and no matter how tired I was it seemed after the nap monster had been slain I would get up and finish hanging it right at midnight. Not so with a bridge.

Tent feel... A tent is a portable house, a room with walls, a roof, and a floor. That's nice. While you can start piling on the accessories and complicating the pitch with hammocks and doors, and floors, and beaks, and pole mods- you're not going to beat the simplicity and ease of a freestanding tent. Cuts the wind, the bugs, the rain. You can sit up, sort gear, you name it. You can cook food in the vestibule. You can have sex in a tent. You can share it with a partner, or play a game of cards with your kiddo. Nobody is getting in and out without the "ZZZRRRUPPP" of the zipper waking you up. There is still plenty good to say about tents. I think the only reason to abandon one (if you like it) is if you are not sleeping well on the ground. I don't think one has to do with the other... though there are several hikers (female especially) who value the privacy and security of a tent over the sleep factors. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So long story short...
I don't think this is as cut and dry an issue as some make it.
Much like LD hikers can focus on weight to their detriment... hammock folks can focus too much on comfort. We each have our soapbox but I think there is some very solid middle ground.
If you take a variety of trip types- you'll likely use a variety of gear... no magic bullet here. But I find that a bridge is a pretty solid hammock option that works well with a pad and fits better than most options for LD hiking style trips. It's not a piece of gear that is highly used or familiar for either user base.

I have been working with some hammock forums folks though who were "done" with camping because of sleep issues. That blows. I was in scouts and I am talking to guys trying to get involved or go with the kids who struggle for that reason... reminds me of some of the dad's who didn't participate in the camping trips when I was a kid. So if at any point any piece of gear or lack of gear is stopping you from going- it becomes the most critical piece of gear IMO. I think that's what many of the hammock zealots are trying to get across to some of us UL folks. There are people who literally had their lives changed switching to a hammock... that's pretty cool.

I hadn't planned on it, but the last few months I adapted some of my UL bridge designs (i have the lightest bridge hammock in the world) for big guys. They are still in testing but i have a dozen folks, some as big as 360lbs and 6'6" tall testing these. In this bridge I can sleep in any position, even belly sleeping. It was originally designed to use with my 6 year old and a Exped Hyperlight Duo Pad that works perfect for us. And works out lighter than carrying two pads and two quilts coincidentally. I basically built the bridge to hold the pad... but then I reached out to some of these "Big Boys" who either stopped camping or relegated themselves to car camping and tried to see if we could figure something out for them. (Bridge hammocks stop at 200-250lbs).

This product isn't available for sale beyond a few prototypes... and not trying to sell anybody here on it. Just showing it as an idea and concept of what is possible with hammocks. While many hammock users do back pack, and hammocks are on the LD trails more often... it's still a pretty new deal and there isn't a lot of focus or innovation on "alternative" designs IMO. I think there is much that could be done with hammocks and pads... And i don't mean laying your hammock on the ground and putting a rainfly on it... I mean a whole new shelter system built around a few base models of bridge type hammocks that work with, not against, a traditional sleeping pad.

To give you an idea- I do have some "UL" versions of the luxury bridge at 1lb 9 ounces. My first full coverage bug nets are coming in at 8.5 ounces, and my first full coverage rain fly at 16 ounces. You'd need your pad/quilt to finish that system but it's not insane and even compares favorably to the weight and bulk of some tents folks use solo.
But on the flipside... my micro bridge is under 10 ounces (9.125). Wear a headnet, add a 6-8 ounce poncho tarp, put in a 3/4 length wide air pad at 12 ounces and a SUL top quilt at 12 oz and you have a very versatile ground and air system with insulation at well under 3 pounds. In fact we are getting closer to the 2lb mark for that system all in... that's pretty cool and approaching the lightest ground systems available if you swap out a thin light pad for an air pad... but you can balance your system depending on how often you feel you may go to ground with your pad choices.


Here's the folder of photos and such that I have been sharing with my test group on the Big Guy/Luxury bridge.
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Apygyt54yYPwg4tUiQQ-mi9wtMxgFQ

I don't show off the micro bridge. :mad::p

Sorry for the rant... guess I missed talking to backpackers about hammocks as opposed to hammockers about backpacking, lol.

The folks on Hammock Forums are pretty closed minded. If you make a suggestion that you should go to ground, (like, where can I hang my hammock above tree line?), they jump right in your chili.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Just Bill]

The folks on Hammock Forums are pretty closed minded. If you make a suggestion that you should go to ground, (like, where can I hang my hammock above tree line?), they jump right in your chili.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Goes both ways, lol.
Even if you might not consider yourself UL or a big mile hiker...we're pretty close minded about our approach and philosophy too. Though we tend not to be anywhere near as polite as they are. Generally, though "going to ground" is treated much like "stupid light" as a general dismissal and conversation killer lol. At best they will recommend you carry another pound of tensegrity poles for treeless hanging. And of course it's silly to assume you wouldn't want to stop at 4pm so you could avoid being forced to camp above tree line anyway... duh... how easy is that? Sides, you'd probably be better off setting up a base camp and making a day trip out of that climb ;)

We've got a fairly specific goal here too, over there you've got everything from total non campers who swapped their home bed for hammocks to car campers and even a few XUL nutjob backpackers. I really enjoy circling through all the different layers and approaches to enjoying the woods. In fact not once at a hang have I gotten sucked into an FKT discussion if you can believe that��

At the end of the day we're just folks sitting around a fire enjoying the night out...and it's easy for a LD minded hiker like me to lose track of the pure joy of camping out.

Lot to learn in each camp...

[fastfoxengineering]

You know I have so many friends that think I don't want to go car camping with them cause I go out for extended backpacking trips.

My response.. you kidding me? I can load my truck up with a cooler for food, a cooler for drinks, a grill, and my freestanding three person tent.

Car camping is the bomb.

So isn't long distance ultralight hiking.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[Recalc]

The UL single wall tent was replaced by a hammock in my backpack last year. The tent served me well, but I never was really able to relax during a heavy rain. Felt like pitching the tent too high opened the shelter up to slash around the perimeter; too low, and condensation and tent walls touching my quilt became an issue. The layer of moisture on the tent and around the foot bed of my quilt happened too often, and as Franco said in a previous post, some hikers never quite get the feel for pitching a shelter correctly. I was probably one of them. Don’t miss pitching the tent twice to make sure the tie outs were taut.

Last year, I purchased a hammock. Went to hammockforums.net but was frustrated with information overload. I emailed Papa Smurf of Dream Hammocks with my shelter concerns, and purchased a hammock system matched with a tarp of appropriate size and shape. Hanging was easy and dry, although I did get mild condensation one night. It would become my palace.

Since completion of the AT, I became interested in issues such as going to the ground, and why was I the only one feeling ambivalent about using a single walled tent? The Whiteblaze posts on tarping is improving my skills in the outdoors. Still have a bias towards the hammock, but appreciation of tarps and single wall tents is coming back.

[TX Aggie]

I'm actually in the process of converting to a hammock for my solo camping but will stick with a tent when going out with family. I agree with all the others that a tent is just easy, especially when you factor in dealing with your extra gear that isn't a hammock. A tent is easy: just get a 1.5 or 2 man and pull your gear inside. Also, a tent seems much easier to stay warm.
But I definitely see the draw with a hammock, especially in hot/humid climates, rocky terrain, or when wet. And with the winter shelter tarps, you almost have more room than a comparable tent.
I'm just starting to try out a Hennessy Hammock, and I think I'll be able to get most of the best of both worlds. Just carry a ground sheet of Tyvek with me and I can drop the hammock to the ground if needed.

I don't think you need to have one set "rule" that you have to be a tent camper or a hammock camper. Go with what you feel like at the time.

[Greenlight]

You might look at Z Packs Splash Bivy (if they start making them again! - website says end of March, and well...) to open up your options. That, paired with a cuben tarp would allow you to switch things up every stop depending on the situation. You'd be good if the shelter was empty, if there were lots of trees, or if you just wanted to be on the ground.

If anyone has tried the Splash, let me know what you think.


I switch between the two regularly, I can't always make up my mind so why fight it! There's some situations why I like a hammock or a tent over the other, but I finally found my most modular system that works for me. I use a hammock with a cuben tarp, that way if I want to hammock, I can; if I want to sleep on the ground I can, because a tent is basically a tarp to keep out the elements and my cuben tarp does just that. When I carry a hammock I always have a sleeping pad and ground cloth with me anyway, so for minimal weight I have a very modular system.

[jboggg]

Great perspective JustBill. I do a ton of hunting, but only a handful of nights each year in my Warbonnet Bridge hammock. Way to many years of football in my younger days and now I am definitely paying the price. I am one of those that has to be on my side to fall asleep, but usually wake up sleeping on my back. I would love to be able to tent camp due to several of the benefits unrelated to sleep. However, my days of sleeping on the ground with my old back and shoulders are over. Really liked your prototype pics. I am 6' 5" and the bridge is the answer. Sure it weighs a tad more, but the zero fiddle factor combined with that feeling of floating on a cot in the air is well worth it. My ability to enjoy my outdoor experience in my waking hours is directly related to my ability to get a good nights rest. You are spot on regarding the bridge hammocks being overlooked by both community's, and I have no idea why. I will be interested to see how your product development continues. Looks like a winner!

[VatoGato]

Yes on My SoBo AT thru last year I started with a tent. That leaked so I went to a bivy, which I got equally wet in from the condensation in the rain. Then traded the bivy for an eno hammock. The hammock and blue tarp worked out well at keeping me dry however I dislike how hammocks curve your back into a banana shape and how your back freezes and therefore wasn't getting much sleep. I finally went back to the ground and settled on a homemade polycryo tarp and shelter hopped when they weren't full.

[ggreaves]

Yes on My SoBo AT thru last year I started with a tent. That leaked so I went to a bivy, which I got equally wet in from the condensation in the rain. Then traded the bivy for an eno hammock. The hammock and blue tarp worked out well at keeping me dry however I dislike how hammocks curve your back into a banana shape and how your back freezes and therefore wasn't getting much sleep. I finally went back to the ground and settled on a homemade polycryo tarp and shelter hopped when they weren't full.

Yer doin' it wrong. Eno hammocks (9ish feet) are too short to get a proper diagonal lay. When you're laying properly in a gathered end hammock you're asymmetrical and are lying completely flat and fully supported (think of how a sling supports a broken arm). No banana lay required. Get an 11' hammock - (dutchwaregear.com - cheap). Also, you either need to lay on a pad (same as ground), or use an underquilt to keep your backside warm. Not all pads are created equal. When I use pads over underquilts - I use a Klymit insulated Static V. Just wide enough and the baffle shapes fit hammocks better than any other pad on the market.

[eggymane]

I guess I'm the odd one out..my hammock is 8' 9" and I prefer it over an 11' hammock.

[ggreaves]

I guess I'm the odd one out..my hammock is 8' 9" and I prefer it over an 11' hammock.

I'm 5'8" and my first hammock was 9 feet (hennessy deep jungle xl). It was fine for me. However, if I was forced into a banana laying position, i'd get a longer hammock. My sweet spot hammock is my Dream Hammock Dangerbird. It's the most comfortable hammock I own and I have lots of brands and lengths.

[VatoGato]

Yer doin' it wrong. Eno hammocks (9ish feet) are too short to get a proper diagonal lay. When you're laying properly in a gathered end hammock you're asymmetrical and are lying completely flat and fully supported (think of how a sling supports a broken arm). No banana lay required. Get an 11' hammock - (dutchwaregear.com - cheap). Also, you either need to lay on a pad (same as ground), or use an underquilt to keep your backside warm. Not all pads are created equal. When I use pads over underquilts - I use a Klymit insulated Static V. Just wide enough and the baffle shapes fit hammocks better than any other pad on the market.

thanks for the suggestion ggreaves. I am taller than average at 6'2" and that is likely my problem. If I ever hike the AT again or do significant hiking on the east coast or in another heavily wooded area I will likely give a longer ridgeline hammock another shot. The one thing I noticed hiking on the east coast with a hammock was that site selection was a lot easier than ground camping. ie don't need level ground. I currently live in california and have my sights on doing the PCT which from what I've researched is less than ideal for hammock camping due to the large desert section in southern california. Also I'm currently striving to get my base pack weight to less than 10lbs so I can hike faster and more comfortably. I think it will be hard to beat a tarp and ground sheet for weight.

[GreyPa]

Your sleeping mode will probably be the biggest driver on this topic. I'm a stomach-sleeper, and never could get a decent night's sleep in a hammock - had to leave the trail at about the 2-1/2 week mark due to the sheer misery of sleep deprivation. Purchased a LightHeart SoLong 6 and haven't looked back.

I've met a handful of folks who have had a similar experience - all have been stomach-sleepers. A majority of the hammockers that I have met are far happier in their hammocks than in a tent - overwhelmingly for quality-of-sleep issues.

[Just Bill]

https://1drv.ms/b/s!Apygyt54yYPwg4pAj39zFLskYN1jbg

This is a one-drive link to a PDF set of instructions for a mid-sized bridge hammock I have sold in the past.
It gives you a pretty good idea of what you can do in a bridge for those that are curious. I can stomach sleep in my designs but would agree that is virtually impossible in other hammocks.

I like bridges because they easily accommodate a pad (though it needs to be a Large) like a neo-air or Exped Hyperlight that we all typically use.

One of the challenges with an eastern sleep system from a weight/design perspective is the floor of a shelter. Even in a bivy... unless you're springing for Cuben it can be difficult to get a decent material that you don't have to baby or worry about leaks. What I've always liked about a bivy or similiar is being able to just throw down wherever you want... but to do that I don't plan on my floor lasting very long. Cuben is easy to patch and repair but at some point when you have a floor covered with duct tape it isn't quite as light, lol.

So for me; bridges solve that design problem of getting you off the ground and having to rely on a bomber fabric to keep you dry. This wasn't a horrible swap for me weight wise vs. the fabrics I prefer and the style I like: hard on my gear with little or no care in site selection.

As for the "shorties" or 9' hammocks. I know people who like them. Honestly I wish I did because it forms the basis of a pretty UL system as everything can scale down. I've got no problem falling asleep in a lazy boy chair... so to me a banana lay in a shorty hammock isn't really any different if you are comfortable. Younger folks (20's) and shorter lighter hikers tend to have more success. Since they are so cheap and make decent loungers or nap hammocks I think they are worth a try for folks curious about hammocks as it always comes in handy for car camping or casual trips. In fact with a wide air pad in them they can be pretty comfy if you can tolerate sleeping sitting up a little as you can scoot your butt to the head end a bit and keep your legs pretty flat.
But most folks won't enjoy it and will want to "step up" to a camping hammock at some point.

[ggreaves]

You bring up a good point about stomach and side sleeping. And you're right that even though some people contort themselves to do it in a gathered end hammock, it's not ideal at best. Which brings me to my point. If you're in a gathered end hammock and have a proper diagonal, flat lay, don't side sleep or stomach sleep. Just don't do it. I toss and turn like hell on my bed every night. In a gathered end hammock? I get myself into that perfect reclining, floating on air, warmly ensconced in down twilight, fall asleep and wake up in the same position in the morning (or more likely when my bladder gets me up). When you're fully supported (think of one of those anti gravity chairs or the nicest La-Z-Boy you've ever thrown down in), you just won't toss and turn.

[Just Bill]

You bring up a good point about stomach and side sleeping. And you're right that even though some people contort themselves to do it in a gathered end hammock, it's not ideal at best. Which brings me to my point. If you're in a gathered end hammock and have a proper diagonal, flat lay, don't side sleep or stomach sleep. Just don't do it. I toss and turn like hell on my bed every night. In a gathered end hammock? I get myself into that perfect reclining, floating on air, warmly ensconced in down twilight, fall asleep and wake up in the same position in the morning (or more likely when my bladder gets me up). When you're fully supported (think of one of those anti gravity chairs or the nicest La-Z-Boy you've ever thrown down in), you just won't toss and turn.

LOL... preach brother hammock preach!

I certainly can't discount the phenomenon: and you are not alone. There is a reason they call it the sweet spot and for many it truly is.
I can do it for a weekend or so... but my back is too messed up to stick with a GE for more than that. Though I do very much side sleep, or sleep fetal in a GE quite enjoyably and having that option can extend my comfortable range.

And as a guy who is building bridges that can hold 400lbs guys I get the load transfer and weightless feeling better than most, lol. For me and others I know, especially those in the trades, it's not an issue of getting comfortable in that position; but actually an issue of maintaining any single position for more than a few hours regardless of comfort. Even if that is the sweetest spot in the world- it's intolerable to hold a position for too long. There is a bit of an old joke in the trades that once you reach a point that you can't stand at the sink long enough to wash out your coffee cup and lunch pail without getting uncomfortable; it's time to get out of the field. I'm out of the field.

I think there are lots of backpackers who got used to falling asleep on a pad; and that takes some getting used to as well. Back sleeping on a pad is rarely a treat, and quilts make belly sleeping very comfy and practical on a pad. So much like learning to back sleep in the sweet spot takes some practice, so does unlearning the habits that folks have learned to adapt to pad life.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
But if it is broke; give hammocks a shot.
Some can find bliss in a $20 Amazon special (a lounging or casual hammock- the wally world blue foamy of the hammock world)... more in a true camping hammock. I do think if you are serious about trying it... you should get a proper hammock and give it a go.
Just like it's unfair to spend a night on a wally world foamy and declare "the ground sucks"... it isn't any better to sleep in a crappy hammock and declare that hanging is for the birds. You cheap out in anything and it's probably not going to be ideal.

Much like pads... if there was "Best" that worked for everyone we wouldn't have 100+ models out there. Although a good camping hammock is much like the NeoAir Xtherm of the backpacking world; most folks will be pretty darn happy with it for little weight penalty and it's worth the money. To either end of that... well even the Neo-Air comes in three flavors and multiple sizes... so even when there is a general consensus, there is never a black and white best.

[ggreaves]

And as a guy who is building bridges that can hold 400lbs guys...

I hope we're talking about bridge hammocks here ;^}