View Full Version : I am amazed at the number of 30 ft^2 Two person tents around two pounds and $200.00
Elaikases
04-01-2017, 21:46
The more I look, the more of them pop up. The moment you get away from free standing tents, the world is flooded with them in this niche.
E.g. $208.97 https://www.backcountry.com/sierra-designs-flashlight-2-ul-tent-2-person-3-season?CMP_SKU=SDS003Q&MER=0406&utm_source=Criteo&utm_medium=Display&CMP_ID=DM_CRT_FBNF&mr:referralID=0bda9e29-1742-11e7-b294-0050569406b5#
Trail Weight 2 lb 8 oz
And the weight keeps dropping. E.g. 1 lb. 9 oz. https://www.backcountry.com/msr-flylite-tent-2-person-3-season?rr=t
(and yes, that one is single wall, not even close to free standing).
Anyway, the point is that tents seem to be getting cheaper and lighter and more numerous.
It has gone from 4-5 lbs for tents being lightweight (I definitely remember the days of single wall Canvas tents and how modern tents were such an improvement) to 4-5 for a two person tent, to 2 lbs being "normal"
================================================== =
My question is just how cheap and how light does anyone think things will get?
Cheap enough and light enough to be virtually useless.
"It was the perfect shelter for those times when you didn't need a tent."
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It has gone from 4-5 lbs for tents being lightweight (I definitely remember the days of single wall Canvas tents and how modern tents were such an improvement) to 4-5 for a two person tent, to 2 lbs being "normal"
You'd have to go way way back to find tents that heavy. In 1990 I was hiking with a Eureka Solitaire. 3 lbs., just a bit over $100. Not very roomy at all but it served me flawlessly for ten years or more. In 2007 I upgraded to a Tarptent Rainbow. 2 lbs., much more room (single walled) and about $180 or so.
fiddlehead
04-01-2017, 22:04
I have quite a few friends who have taken up long distance bicycle touring.
Many of them like a tent that they can put their bike inside too.
They are not so afraid of weight as we trekkers are.
Elaikases
04-01-2017, 22:04
Cheap enough and light enough to be virtually useless.
"It was the perfect shelter for those times when you didn't need a tent."
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:)
I go back to camping in the 60s.
The more I look, the more of them pop up. The moment you get away from free standing tents, the world is flooded with them in this niche.
E.g. $208.97 https://www.backcountry.com/sierra-designs-flashlight-2-ul-tent-2-person-3-season?CMP_SKU=SDS003Q&MER=0406&utm_source=Criteo&utm_medium=Display&CMP_ID=DM_CRT_FBNF&mr:referralID=0bda9e29-1742-11e7-b294-0050569406b5#
Trail Weight
2 lb 8 oz
And the weight keeps dropping. E.g. 1 lb. 9 oz. https://www.backcountry.com/msr-flylite-tent-2-person-3-season?rr=t
(and yes, that one is single wall, not even close to free standing).
Anyway, the point is that tents seem to be getting cheaper and lighter and more numerous.
It has gone from 4-5 lbs for tents being lightweight (I definitely remember the days of single wall Canvas tents and how modern tents were such an improvement) to 4-5 for a two person tent, to 2 lbs being "normal"
================================================== =
My question is just how cheap and how light does anyone think things will get?
I have always thought any thing sub 2# per person is a reasonable tent. However, I also discount a 4 person to a 3, a 3 to a 2, a 2 to 1 etc. Both MSR and Sierra Designs are reputable companies. I owned an old style Flashlight many years ago, too old to get in and out of now.
Markups on high end equipment are substantial. Items that accumulate inventory over time, most this stuff is shipped in large lots from Asia, get highly discounted, especially if a new model or color is forthcoming. Ultralight gear is very competitive. If you're not too tall, too wide or too grumpy, you might find something that works at a good discount.
Now I'm surprised that REI tents are not lighter and less expensive.
But seriously, it is an exploding market segment without any comprehensive overview.
I'm wondering just how large it will get.
Sarcasm the elf
04-02-2017, 09:18
Now I'm surprised that REI tents are not lighter and less expensive.
But seriously, it is an exploding market segment without any comprehensive overview.
I'm wondering just how large it will get.
I have a longstanding theory that REI's 100% satisfaction guarantee limits their ability to sell ultralight gear. The technology is clearly there for them to make/sell much lighter tents and backpacks, but these types of equipment are usually not as durable and have less of a tolerance for user error than traditional gear. I suspect that REI's promise to take products back with no questions asked make these items unprofitable for them to sell.
coach lou
04-02-2017, 09:31
:)
I go back to camping in the 60s.
Our troop backpacked alot, no tents......no pics either from the 60s. We used 10x10 sheets of plastic. The senior scouts who had jobs had these newfangled tarps with built in grommets. We put the plastic up with small stones in the corners tied with a clove hitch! Man I wish someone took a pic of that set-up.
The more I look, the more of them pop up. The moment you get away from free standing tents, the world is flooded with them in this niche.
E.g. $208.97 https://www.backcountry.com/sierra-designs-flashlight-2-ul-tent-2-person-3-season?CMP_SKU=SDS003Q&MER=0406&utm_source=Criteo&utm_medium=Display&CMP_ID=DM_CRT_FBNF&mr:referralID=0bda9e29-1742-11e7-b294-0050569406b5#
Trail Weight [COLOR=#666666][FONT=Conduit]2 lb 8 oz
Well, it's interesting that you cite the venerable Clip Flashlight as an example. The Clip Flashlight has been around for decades now. It was very popular among thru hikers in 1990, particularly among couples.
Offshore
04-02-2017, 10:06
I have a longstanding theory that REI's 100% satisfaction guarantee limits their ability to sell ultralight gear. The technology is clearly there for them to make/sell much lighter tents and backpacks, but these types of equipment are usually not as durable and have less of a tolerance for user error than traditional gear. I suspect that REI's promise to take products back with no questions asked make these items unprofitable for them to sell.
I thought the same thing and had the chance to have a conversation about it with an REI corporate person at a preopening event at a new location a couple of years ago. This was shortly after the guarantee changed from forever to one year and seemed to coincide with the redesign of the Quarterdome line with much lighter materials. What I took from the conversation was that they were changing the direction for the REI brand from an "almost as good" value option to as good as the premium brands at a lower price. A couple of years later, you see it in their clothing and gear - lighter materials, better designs, etc. (The Quarterdomes were redesigned again this year and are a little lighter and the Flash line of packs has been refreshed - as two quick examples.)
As far as the warranty limiting their ability to use lighter materials and more innovative designs, it doesn't appear to be the case as they seem to be moving ahead with new products at a pretty fast pace. Besides, their warranty policy is very clear and specifically excludes normal wear and tear as well as damage due to misuse or accidents. You'll always have to deal with the customers with unreasonable expectations, but they evidently struck a balance. You also have to consider that performance materials are getting more and more mainstream, as they always have.
Elaikases
04-02-2017, 10:47
I thought the same thing and had the chance to have a conversation about it with an REI corporate person at a preopening event at a new location a couple of years ago. This was shortly after the guarantee changed from forever to one year and seemed to coincide with the redesign of the Quarterdome line with much lighter materials. What I took from the conversation was that they were changing the direction for the REI brand from an "almost as good" value option to as good as the premium brands at a lower price. A couple of years later, you see it in their clothing and gear - lighter materials, better designs, etc. (The Quarterdomes were redesigned again this year and are a little lighter and the Flash line of packs has been refreshed - as two quick examples.)
As far as the warranty limiting their ability to use lighter materials and more innovative designs, it doesn't appear to be the case as they seem to be moving ahead with new products at a pretty fast pace. Besides, their warranty policy is very clear and specifically excludes normal wear and tear as well as damage due to misuse or accidents. You'll always have to deal with the customers with unreasonable expectations, but they evidently struck a balance. You also have to consider that performance materials are getting more and more mainstream, as they always have.
That makes a lot of sense.
Ever since BA started their Platinum line (same tents, just lighter materials -- and an increased price), I've been expecting something similar from REI.
Maybe I'll see that yet. ;)
MuddyWaters
04-02-2017, 10:56
Op hasent been looking at chinese knockoffs apparently
You can get one of them for a fraction of $200,
4eyedbuzzard
04-02-2017, 11:48
I don't believe 2 lb is "normal" for a two person tent even today. Perhaps only once you venture into single wall and/or exotic fabrics and really big price tags. Most light 3 season two person tents on the market are 3 lbs.+ once the minimal amount of stakes and line are included. Yes, 3.4 and 1.9 oz coated ripstop from the 90's has given way to 1.1 oz silnylon, but you can't shave lbs by fabric weight alone. With many, the weight decrease is a combination of less actual fabric and more netting, and often using trekking poles vs. supplied poles. I would add that many of these two man tents sold today are simply not as sturdy as some of the earlier tents. Bombproof tents, like Moss, etc, in the 90's were 5 lbs +. The equivalent quality "bombproof" 3 season tents today like a Hilleberg Niak are still closer to 4lbs +, even with slightly lighter fabrics. One step down would be perhaps Big Agnes, etc.
The world is loaded with sewing machines and factories. It doesn't take much research or engineering to cut and sew fabric that will be staked out between a trekking pole and the ground, because there are no curved surfaces - just simple rectangles and triangles and such. So, there are a LOT of entries in this category. Some are better than others. Now, if you want an engineered tent with tensioned fabric that some thought has been put into as far as wind and rain shedding capabilities, you'll find a lot fewer players, higher weight, and higher price tags.
I have quite a few friends who have taken up long distance bicycle touring.
Many of them like a tent that they can put their bike inside too.
They are not so afraid of weight as we trekkers are.
I've only just started the bike touring thing but it never occurred to me to put my wet muddy bike inside a tent. Not that my tent could hold a bike. OTOH I did have to carry a bike lock, and that's a pound or so, right there.
What was kinda cool was that I already had decent lightweight hiking gear with which to load the panniers. So total extra load was less than I'd carry on my back while hiking -- really just the base-weight stuff, not so much food or water.
I was just doing some research and googling on cuben fiber tents a few minutes ago. Stumbled across a picture of a tarp that looked to be designed for use with the bike as poles. The bike was flipped upside down standing on handle bars and seat, with wheels up. The tarp fit perfectly over the wheels and was guy lined out with space for sleeping pad beside the bike.
38917
here's the bike tarp I mentioned earlier
coach lou
04-02-2017, 16:17
38917
here's the bike tarp I mentioned earlier
I like this:-?
Did anyone pay attention to the exorbitant original prices vs. the fire sale liquidation prices in the OP? Obviously nobody wanted these tents at full retail.
Then you have to make a purchase decision based on the packaged weight and not the minimum trail weight which generally means you can't actually use the tent at the claimed minimum weight.
There are usually very good reasons why a product has to be marked down from nearly $400 to about $100.
As for the "2 person" capacity, that is something that you can only determine in real world use.
The market has a very good way of sorting wheat from chaff.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MuddyWaters
04-02-2017, 19:05
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3F-UL-GEAR-650g-Oudoor-Ultralight-Camping-Tent-3-Season-1-Single-Person-Professional-15D-Nylon/32695338570.html?spm=2114.40010208.4.15.islhdL
Elaikases
04-02-2017, 21:53
Op hasent been looking at chinese knockoffs apparently
You can get one of them for a fraction of $200,
I'd love some links to lighter, freestanding chinese knock-offs.
The 5+ lb ones I've seen didn't grab me, but I was probably looking in the wrong place.
Elaikases
04-02-2017, 21:55
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3F-UL-GEAR-650g-Oudoor-Ultralight-Camping-Tent-3-Season-1-Single-Person-Professional-15D-Nylon/32695338570.html?spm=2114.40010208.4.15.islhdL
And links were delivered. Thanks!
Elaikases
04-02-2017, 22:00
Ok. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NatureHike-tent-1-8kg-3-Person-20D-Silicone-Fabric-Double-layer-Camping-Tents-NH-Outdoor/32693259201.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.8.u22Bs I
1.8kg 3 Person 20D Silicone Fabric Double-layer Camping Tents NH Outdoor Tent ultralight 210T Plaid Fabric Tent
Four pounds (3.96).
Gray: 20D silicone ultralight three tents, Weight: 1.81kg (not including nail wind rope)
Orange and green: 210T lightweight three tents, Weight: 2.1kg (not including nail wind rope)
Two person
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-DHL-NatureHike-2-Person-Tent-ultralight-210T-Plaid-Fabric-Tents-Double-layer-Camping-Tent-Outdoor/32693163309.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.6.7YX8E P
Gray: 20D silicone ultralight Two tents, Weight: 1.24kg -- 2.7lb.
Look like BA clones.
Anyone with experience with this brand?
I thought the same thing and had the chance to have a conversation about it with an REI corporate person at a preopening event at a new location a couple of years ago. This was shortly after the guarantee changed from forever to one year and seemed to coincide with the redesign of the Quarterdome line with much lighter materials. What I took from the conversation was that they were changing the direction for the REI brand from an "almost as good" value option to as good as the premium brands at a lower price. A couple of years later, you see it in their clothing and gear - lighter materials, better designs, etc. (The Quarterdomes were redesigned again this year and are a little lighter and the Flash line of packs has been refreshed - as two quick examples.)
As far as the warranty limiting their ability to use lighter materials and more innovative designs, it doesn't appear to be the case as they seem to be moving ahead with new products at a pretty fast pace. Besides, their warranty policy is very clear and specifically excludes normal wear and tear as well as damage due to misuse or accidents. You'll always have to deal with the customers with unreasonable expectations, but they evidently struck a balance. You also have to consider that performance materials are getting more and more mainstream, as they always have.
That is really neat.