View Full Version : Factors in Choosing a Tent?
Arc-Niner
04-03-2017, 08:14
Hello! This is my first post here on WB. I've been reading quite a bit here about all the different tents and shelter systems available, and I think my questions are a little more basic. I'll explain:
So I've been backpacking for years now, and all of my hear is much heavier than it needs to be. Currently I've been using an Easton Rimrock 1P tent, which weighs 50 oz. The idea of cutting that weight almost in half delights my middle-aged hiking legs on week-long trips on the trails.
I like the idea of ditching poles and using my hiking poles, but what tradeoff am I making against wind and rain?
Silnylon is lighter than what I have, and less expensive than cuben tents, but how badly does it stretch when it gets wet? (re-adjusting my pitch through a rainy night is not my idea of late-night entertainment.)
Double wall tents are a defense against interior wetness due to condensation, but are modern single-wall tents better vented to produce less of a condensation risk?
I think getting those concerns answered will get me started (and spark more detailed questions about different models/designs). Thanks everyone.
I dont use a tent. I use a SixMoon Designs Haven Tarp with the net tent. Weighs about two pounds. Uses my trekking poles. When the tarp starts to get saggy, I extend my poles a bit more. Dont have to go outside. Plenty of ventilation since the tarp doesnt have to go all the way to the ground. Enough room inside the net tent for two people plus some gear. Can use the vestibules for boots and packs.
bigcranky
04-03-2017, 09:17
I've been using trekking poles to support my tent since my first Tarptent in 2004. I don't think I'm giving up anything in terms of weather protection, and I think that there are more interesting designs out there for non-freestanding tents. Something like a Tarptent Notch packs an amazing set of features into 24 ounces or so -- double wall design, two doors on the long sides of the tent (for ease of entry and views), excellent weather protection, light weight. (I have no relationship with Tarptent except as a past happy customer, and in fact I no longer use any of their products, but they are well designed and well made.)
Silnylon does sag or stretch a little when wet, even with just the evening dew. But I find that once I make a single adjustment to tighten it up, that's all I need to do. In some tents, you can do this from the inside by extending your trekking poles another centimeter or so.
All tents will have condensation under the right conditions. Most single wall cottage gear made tents will have a lot of ventilation (so be aware of that on cold windy nights :) ), but they can get pretty wet inside sometimes. This is a tradeoff that I am willing to make (and I carry a small chamois towel to dry the inside of the tent in the morning as needed).
Good luck with the research.
AllDownhillFromHere
04-03-2017, 09:29
50oz isn't terrible, but it isn't great either. They do make lighter 1P tents if you have the $$$ to spend, although probably more money than buying a tarp setup.
Things which keep me in a tent:
1 size fits all, because it's the size of the tent
you don't HAVE to have trekking poles
no guyline fiddling
fly, or no fly depending on weather
bugs
DuneElliot
04-03-2017, 09:30
The only time I have had an issue with condensation inside my Duplex (love the CF for non-sag, and one of my priorities in a tent is waterproofness) is when camped right next to water (my mistake) or when it rained a lot and the ground was wet enough to create a similar situation to being on a lake. I also carry a super-absorbent cloth for my tent (and for my cook set) for those times I need it. I often leave one of the doors open too, unless the rain is coming down.
Pick your priorities in a tent...for me it was weight and waterproofness/no sag. I was willing pay the price but that may not be for everyone.
4eyedbuzzard
04-03-2017, 09:53
So many options theses days. Which is good, but confusing. And single wall vs double wall is kind of blurred given the amount of upper netting on many of the "double wall" tents. I think normal weather conditions where a tent is used dictate a large part of the choice. I've successfully used a 20 oz Etowah Meadows (silnylon) tarp for years in the east. Roomy, but add to that a ground cloth at 6 oz and a mosquito net at 4 oz and you're up to the weight of a lot of tents and without bathtub floor protection. I'm currently using a new to me Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1. It's big for a one person tent, but still tight compared to a two person. But at 36 oz it's a pretty cool little free standing tent. I just prefer free standing tents over ones that aren't - easier to use and sturdier in storms IMO (yes, especially in bad weather you still need to stake them). The side entry, higher than average sidewalls, and relatively big vestibule are a plus for a small tent. Can't comment on condensation as I've only used it for two nights and it was dry, but it seems well ventilated.
So many good options out there, good luck!
Arc-Niner
04-03-2017, 09:59
I no longer use any of their products, but they are well designed and well made.)
I've been looking at Henry Shires Tarptent products--specifically the Notch that you mentioned. I'm curious though as to why you no longer use Tarptent products. Did you find something better or did your requirements change?
Whatever tent I go with will have to be waterproof/weatherproof and protect from bugs. I don't want to sacrifice something that will crumble in a thunderstorm because it was the lightest tent available. To me, that defeats the purpose. I do always carry a pack towel or something similar, so if that takes care of condensation, then great. I just don't want to get water dripping on my down sleeping bag, or on the foot end of the bad due to rubbing the canopy during the night.
I'm thrilled to hear that trekking pole supported tents are not much of a tradeoff in weather protection. That keeps me from having to carry the extra weight of tent poles. Price is definitely a consideration. I see some cottage industry tent systems in cuben fiber in the $600-800 range, and that seems a little extreme to me, considering that the weight savings over silnylon versions looks to be less than 8 oz. Granted, that weight savings may well be worth the expense to those who value weight over cost. If I can have a tent that is under 30 oz, then that's already a huge savings in my pack weight from my 50oz Rimrock 1P.
lwhikerchris
04-03-2017, 10:50
If it's light and waterproof and I can use my poles, it works for me. Look into used cuben fiber shelters; you can find them on BPL and other places at a good discount.
nsherry61
04-03-2017, 11:22
1) Sil-nylon gets loose when it gets wet just like your older nylon tent does. So, this is not a new thing to you, just a new awareness maybe. The sagging of wet nylon has become in issue to talk about only because there are other modern fabrics, like cuben, that don't sag/stretch when wet.
2) Tent ventilation and condensation has as much, or more, to do you with your choices than the tent design. Leave whatever vents there are open and pitch in low humidity areas and condensation will be minimal in most shelters. Close vents against weather and camp in higher humidity, and you will get condensation inside any shelter. The double wall just protects you from accidentally touching the condensation or having the condensation run down the tent wall and puddle on the floor or otherwise soak your gear. A floorless single walled shelter (tarp or shaped tarp) eliminates the puddling, so you just have to be careful about touching. I net tent to protect against bugs when using a single-walled shelter is basically a less integrated double walled tent.
3) With sub 2 and sub 3-pound double walled tents available, it starts making one wonder about the usefulness of single walled tents.
4) Finally, shelters pitched using trekking poles means that you cannot use your trekking poles when your shelter is pitched. Not a problem if you never go hiking after pitching your shelter or don't care about whether or not you use your poles when hiking without your full pack. BUT, a BIG PROBLEM, if you like to pitch camp and then go for a hike or pitch camp for a few days to then go day-hiking and want to use your poles when doing so. You can, of course, get tent poles to use instead of trekking poles for shelters otherwise pitched using trekking poles.
ggreaves
04-03-2017, 11:32
For the issues you've mentioned... weight, condensation and weather protection, it's tough to beat a lightweight hammock setup.
Dutch halfwit hammock w/whoopie hook suspension - $137.... 14.0 oz
Hammockgear cuben tarp with doors 11' - $295.... 7.5 oz
Total $442... 21.5 oz
You can drop another $150 off this if you go with a silnylon tarp. You'll never get wet from above or below from rain or condensation. You can still use your pad in the hammock. Plus, some benefits you weren't looking for but you'll get anyway ....
1. restful restorative sleep every night (helpful if you're trying to string multiple high mile days together)
2. always having the same lay in your bed every night despite what may be below you (rocks / twigs / torrents from a flash storm)
3. no poles (of any kind) required - unless you want to pitch the tarp out in porch mode and enjoy nature from your bed
bigcranky
04-03-2017, 13:17
I've been looking at Henry Shires Tarptent products--specifically the Notch that you mentioned. I'm curious though as to why you no longer use Tarptent products. Did you find something better or did your requirements change?
A little of both.
We started with a Tarptent Rainshadow when our daughter hiked with us. Got a Tarptent Double Rainbow for the two of us, and Moment for solo use. I gave the Moment to a young friend in the Scouts, and we replaced the D.R. with a Six Moons Designs Lunar Duo for the interior space, then this year we replaced it with a Zpacks Triplex for the weight savings. The SMD Lunar Duo gave us great service for close to a decade, through some amazing bad weather, as did all the Tarptents. Oh, and we got a Zpacks Hexamid Twin for our LT hike and now I use that as a solo tent.
As you can tell, if you hike much, for long enough, you would will collect a lot of tents.
...and packs, and bags, and .... you get the picture.
So it's not about any one tent choice.
soumodeler
04-03-2017, 17:23
The Notch is a great tent for the price. Well made and roomy enough for one plus a little gear. I would recommend it to anyone without reservation.
That said I now use a ZPacks duplex and love it. Perfect for one, adequate for 2 in a pinch. Super light and reasonably durable for ultra lite gear. Expensive, but worth it for me.
Arc-Niner
04-03-2017, 17:36
For the issues you've mentioned... weight, condensation and weather protection, it's tough to beat a lightweight hammock setup.
Yep. I'm trying to get acclimated to laying in a hammock and getting all the angles right. I'm very much a newbie there. I've got a Warbonnet Blackbird with a DIY silnylon hex tarp. With the tarp I made, it's still a little on the heavy side and there aren't always trees in the places I like to go, so it won't fit my needs 100% of the time.
I like to adress the sagging bit.
Some have problems with it, others (like me don't)
Why ?
Simply because IF you tension the tent once it has cooled down (after the sun has gone down and usually just before you get in to sleep) even if it start raining or snowing the sagging will be very limited if at all.
I have posted this shot before because I think well illustrates the situation.
It wasn't snowing when I got in to sleep but obviously was already cold well after sunset.
That is WET (heavy) snow, yet no sagging.(most of it was iced up when I got up)
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/TT%20Notch/NotchScarp2_zpsa1d005dd.jpg
this is in another spot, no snow on top but you might be able to see that the fly is iced up. Thew guylines are fully extended so I did not pull them in for the photo...
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/TT%20Notch/Derriks-Hut-2.jpg
This is me feeding my face in the morning waiting for the rain to stop. Was not raining the night before ( a mate took that shot)
You can see that the back panels are still fully taut. I never get up during the night to re-tension.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/TT%20Notch/Breakfast-in-the-rain_zpsb74fb3e3.jpg
however for the ones that set up theirs like this :
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/TT%20Notch/Notch%20not_zpstov6reql.jpg
sagging will be a problem.
Arc-Niner
04-03-2017, 20:03
Franco, that is impressive how your Notch retained its taut pitch in those conditions! That certainly keeps it towards the top of my list!
ggreaves
04-03-2017, 20:09
Yep. I'm trying to get acclimated to laying in a hammock and getting all the angles right. I'm very much a newbie there. I've got a Warbonnet Blackbird with a DIY silnylon hex tarp. With the tarp I made, it's still a little on the heavy side and there aren't always trees in the places I like to go, so it won't fit my needs 100% of the time.
There's a very friendly and helpful group over at hammockforums.net that would be glad to answer your questions and help you tweak your setup.
Arc Niner
with a trekking pole supported shelter like the Notch you can also just re-tension the shelter from the inside by increasing the pole length.
(if your poles extend, but you could also lift the pole handle and put the front of your shoe/boot under it)
swjohnsey
04-03-2017, 20:51
Factors in selecting a tent:
Price
Weight
Area
Headroom
Freestanding
Single wall
Modern tents that use stressed aluminum poles stay taut.
I have a ten year old Tarptent Rainbow, still using it, still good as new.
I can't imagine any tent faster or easier to set up. (I've owned many...) It has exactly one pole. It isn't freestanding but with a grand total of six stakes, that's not an issue for me.
It's a complete bug-proof shelter, with floor tub, large front door and excellent ventilation. It's single-walled, so condensation is an occasional issue. It's not the driest (dryest?) tent I've ever used. But at 32 oz. carrying weight, it's about the lightest. It's the solo model, but very roomy.
Franco, that is impressive how your Notch retained its taut pitch in those conditions! That certainly keeps it towards the top of my list!
I have owned and re-sold 3 tarp tents. Henry Shires is a fine designer, a good business man and a reputable manufacturer. Multiple reasons, but Tarptents weren't for me.
Franco is a former or current employee, sub-contractor, representative or whatever of Tarptent. He doesn't disclose his relationship in his post as have many other representatives in WB.
So, a grain of salt.
Arc-Niner
04-03-2017, 22:44
I have owned and re-sold 3 tarp tents. Henry Shires is a fine designer, a good business man and a reputable manufacturer. Multiple reasons, but Tarptents weren't for me.
Hosh, what did you replace the Tarptents with?
Yes I am with Tarptent ,in a very part time position, simply because I do know and use the product.
I had been posting for years when Henry thought of giving me a position within his business.
I did disclose that at the time and most of the times I do remember to add my franco@tarptent kind of signature but for got in this case.
Not that it has ever been a secret and regardless my comments remain true as a user of the product.
daddytwosticks
04-04-2017, 07:05
I have owned and re-sold 3 tarp tents. Henry Shires is a fine designer, a good business man and a reputable manufacturer. Multiple reasons, but Tarptents weren't for me.
Franco is a former or current employee, sub-contractor, representative or whatever of Tarptent. He doesn't disclose his relationship in his post as have many other representatives in WB.
So, a grain of salt.
Absolutely my same feelings. I've owned and sold two Tarptent products. :)
Absolutely my same feelings. I've owned and sold two Tarptent products. :)
Don't be coy. Tell us why.
Elaikases
04-04-2017, 08:03
Don't be coy. Tell us why.
My thoughts exactly -- and what do you use now?
Odd Man Out
04-04-2017, 08:30
Last year I was on a 4 day hike with a buddy. He had a new REI self standing dome style tent. I have a TT Notch. We both started pitching at the same time. When I was done he was still assembling his complex pole system. I was watching him work with the long skinny arching poles and thought "what would he do if one of these broke". If I snap or lose a trekking pole, I can still pitch my tent using a 115 cm stick, that is assuming I can find a stick in the woods. I always try to have contingency plans for critical gear.
4eyedbuzzard
04-04-2017, 08:43
Last year I was on a 4 day hike with a buddy. He had a new REI self standing dome style tent. I have a TT Notch. We both started pitching at the same time. When I was done he was still assembling his complex pole system. I was watching him work with the long skinny arching poles and thought "what would he do if one of these broke". If I snap or lose a trekking pole, I can still pitch my tent using a 115 cm stick, that is assuming I can find a stick in the woods. I always try to have contingency plans for critical gear.He'd probably use the pole repair splint that comes with the tent. Just a guess though. No tent or shelter system is foolproof. What would you do if you found your stakes inadequate for holding? Probably use a stick or rock. A non-free standing tent is just as dependent on anchoring as a free standing one is on poles, so the user improvises until a permanent repair or replacement can be made. I'd add that the most common tent failures tend to be zippers and seam leaks, which isn't unique to any particular type.
Hosh, what did you replace the Tarptents with?
I am a biased BA fan, tents & pads.
I have a Copper Spur UL4, CS UL3 and CS UL1. The UL 4 & 3 were bought on SteepandCheap at a 50+% discount when they switched out the designs to lessen the weight by 3 or 4 ounces. I like the designs, entry/exit, fast fly option, color, and reliability of the tents (I used "bomb proof" once and some Hilleberg user went ape sheet). They have served well above treeline in high winds, hail and sleet. Once at a RMNP BC designated site, a flash thunder/hail storm deposited 2" of standing water. The tent didn't leak a bit.
Thankfully there are hundreds of options and tens of thousands of opinions. I bought at a great price point and feel that they are an excellent value.
Tarptent has many good features and many loyal owners. I did think as a "new" poster, you should know Franco's biases.
eggymane
04-04-2017, 15:29
I've gone through multitudes of tents, and for backpacking I have found the Lightheart Gear is my favorite tent. It uses trekking poles, but under most normal conditions in most of the world you don't need something like a Hilleberg. I have a Hilleberg Soulo and it rarely gets used. You can add shock cord to the guy outs and it will keep the fly from any sagging, worthwhile in my opinion. On that note- I like cuben fiber for tarps but not a fan of them for tents.
daddytwosticks
04-04-2017, 15:53
Don't be coy. Tell us why.
They were quality products. I owned a Notch and one of his earlier one-man products. I just hated the fiddle factor of setting them up. That and the saggy pitch of silnylon and how it gets worse when it is damp or rained on. Plus, dealing with being exposed to the condensation due to the single wall construction. I went back to a conventional double-wall tent. I am using a MSR Hubba NX-1 right now. Love the ease of set up and it being almost free standing. Very bomb proof and only about a pound greater than my old Notch. :)
Arc-Niner
04-05-2017, 18:01
On that note- I like cuben fiber for tarps but not a fan of them for tents.
Eggymane - I'm curious to hear why you aren't a fan of cuben fiber for tents, as that is a possibility that I am considering (although my goodness are they expensive!).
Arc-Niner
04-05-2017, 18:09
I have a Copper Spur UL4, CS UL3 and CS UL1.
I appreciate your viewpoint, and I hear you about the quality of Big Agnes gear. It sounds like I am going in the other direction from you in terms of tent weight, however. I've already got a 1-person freestanding tent, and I want to see if I can go to something lighter that will still provide reliable weather protection. I might regret it, but at least I want to put a toe into that pond. :)
eggymane
04-05-2017, 19:00
Eggymane - I'm curious to hear why you aren't a fan of cuben fiber for tents, as that is a possibility that I am considering (although my goodness are they expensive!).
I'm not to the point where I yet trust cuben for the floor of a tent. If you set cuben down on an object it will likely puncture through; whereas if you set a silnylon tent on the same object it has a far better chance of stretching without puncturing.
Arc-Niner
04-05-2017, 19:18
I'm not to the point where I yet trust cuben for the floor of a tent. If you set cuben down on an object it will likely puncture through; whereas if you set a silnylon tent on the same object it has a far better chance of stretching without puncturing.
Ah, good to know! I've been curious how durable cuben is. I hear that it does not last as long as nylon, but wasn't sure if it just wears out or if it is a fairly delicate fabric.
eggymane
04-05-2017, 19:30
Ah, good to know! I've been curious how durable cuben is. I hear that it does not last as long as nylon, but wasn't sure if it just wears out or if it is a fairly delicate fabric.
It's incredibly tear resistant, very strong in that manner; It's punctures that it is highly susceptible to. I like it for tarps because it doesn't stretch at all.
soumodeler
04-05-2017, 19:46
Every fabric has its downfalls. Cuben as stated is prone to puncture and not very abrasion resistant while being very resistant to tearing. Silnylon is less likely to puncture from a small object, but is easier to tear (relatively speaking), but has the cons of stretching when wet and retaining water. Cuben does not retain water or stretch.
It is all about trade offs with ultralight materials. So far nobody has created the perfect fabric, so you will have to choose what limitation you want to live with. I personally will take the disadvantages of cuben over silnylon as I am generally very careful with my gear and tend to replace stuff more frequently than the average user. I also much prefer not having to readjust my tent multiple times a night when it is wet and that was one of the major reasons I went from a TarpTent Notch to a ZPacks Duplex. Of course more room and less weight were appreciated as well!
Arc-Niner
04-05-2017, 21:27
I also much prefer not having to readjust my tent multiple times a night when it is wet and that was one of the major reasons I went from a TarpTent Notch to a ZPacks Duplex. Of course more room and less weight were appreciated as well!
Ah, you did find that you were readjusting it multiple times? Given that the Duplex is a single-wall tent, how does it compare to the Notch in terms of condensation in your experience? Thanks!
I hike with a dog. I assumed that Cuben fiber flooring was a no go due to dogs nails causing punctures. Is this correct?
eggymane
04-06-2017, 06:39
If you decide to go with a silnylon tent I would recommend these or simply make your own.
https://www.msrgear.com/tents/tightline-cord-tensioner
Tipi Walter
04-06-2017, 08:58
Silnylon is lighter than what I have, and less expensive than cuben tents, but how badly does it stretch when it gets wet? (re-adjusting my pitch through a rainy night is not my idea of late-night entertainment.)
Double wall tents are a defense against interior wetness due to condensation, but are modern single-wall tents better vented to produce less of a condensation risk?
As far as condensation goes, read my Peter Clinch quote below. My silnylon tents stretch alot and require a "second set-up" on a frequent basis, what you call re-adjusting my pitch. Here's my Keron tent during normal dry-air setup---
https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-and-Johnny-Molloy/i-32wjW5G/0/L/TRIP%20125%20041-L.jpg
And then with a little moisture---
https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-Citico-Snow/i-txT2mB6/0/L/TRIP%20118%20023-L.jpg
What this means in reality is that I'm setting up the tent TWICE---to go out in crappy weather and restaking the thing. Irksome.
Silnylon does sag or stretch a little when wet, even with just the evening dew.
All tents will have condensation under the right conditions. Most single wall cottage gear made tents will have a lot of ventilation (so be aware of that on cold windy nights :) ), but they can get pretty wet inside sometimes. This is a tradeoff that I am willing to make (and I carry a small chamois towel to dry the inside of the tent in the morning as needed).
To your first point, yes, just look at my pics. To your condensation point, yes, ALL TENTS will have condensation depending on air humidity and temps. And with this condensation will come interior wetness, made worse without the interior canopy of a double wall tent. Here's proof---
https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpack-2015-Trips-161/Three-Citico-Nuts/i-JJswqpq/0/XL/TRIP%20170%20015-XL.jpg
This was taken on a December trip during a 75 hour rainstorm. I was inside my double wall tent and the inside of the fly dripped this condensation on top of my interior yellow canopy which shunted the water down to the ground. Point is, without my inner tent all this water would've landed on me and my gear thru the night.
1)
2) Tent ventilation and condensation has as much, or more, to do you with your choices than the tent design. Leave whatever vents there are open and pitch in low humidity areas and condensation will be minimal in most shelters. Close vents against weather and camp in higher humidity, and you will get condensation inside any shelter. The double wall just protects you from accidentally touching the condensation or having the condensation run down the tent wall and puddle on the floor or otherwise soak your gear.
I guess it depends on where you are camping, but in the Southeast mountains of NC/TN and Virginia and Georgia, tent condensation can be at times terrible no matter how much you vent the thing. Here's the best description on tent condensation I have seen and comes from Peter Clinch from an Outdoorsmagic.com forum---
"Is there anything that can alleviate such condensation (if that's what is was) apart from venting as much as possible?"
"It's easy, all you need to do is defy some fundamental laws of physics . . . There are times and conditions when you just can't stop it. If air is saturated with moisture, which it quite often is in persistent rain because there's so much moisture about, you've got lots of condensation potential. Cool things down by letting the sun set and you've got saturated air that often can't help but lose some of that water, and it comes out in the form of a fine mist over any good condensing surface, and a tent porch is an excellent one."
"Most of what venting a tent does is carry away excess moisture created by the inhabitants of the tent as people naturally give off a fair bit of moist air. But if the source of the moist air is just all the air that's around you anyway there's nothing much you can do about it. Which is why most inners are lightly proofed, to deal with the condensation that you just won't ever be able to stop."
I have owned and re-sold 3 tarp tents. Henry Shires is a fine designer, a good business man and a reputable manufacturer. Multiple reasons, but Tarptents weren't for me.
Franco is a former or current employee, sub-contractor, representative or whatever of Tarptent. He doesn't disclose his relationship in his post as have many other representatives in WB.
So, a grain of salt.
My biggest peeve with Franco is his 100% glowing reports on every TarpTent he knows about. In other words, I have NEVER seen a post from Franco criticizing in any way his tents or explaining their weaknesses. Every tent has it flaws and weaknesses but Franco won't touch this topic.
Tarptent has many good features and many loyal owners. I did think as a "new" poster, you should know Franco's biases.
Exactly. I like how Franco "conveniently" leaves out his TarpTent disclaimer, i.e. "I work for the company."
DuneElliot
04-06-2017, 09:09
I hike with a dog. I assumed that Cuben fiber flooring was a no go due to dogs nails causing punctures. Is this correct?
I've had my dogs in my Duplex in crappy weather. I carry two pieces of a light-weight CCF foam pad for them to use as a bed either in or out of my tent. I keep their claws short and I haven't had a problem yet. They do usually sleep under the awning though if the weather isn't terrible.
soumodeler
04-06-2017, 14:36
Ah, you did find that you were readjusting it multiple times? Given that the Duplex is a single-wall tent, how does it compare to the Notch in terms of condensation in your experience? Thanks!
I have so far left the doors on it completely open and have had no issues with condensation.
Tipi,
You made similar comments about me well before I became part of Tarptent.
I was using Tarptent products for more than 5 years before joining the firm.
As I stated above , I simply forgot to add the disclaimer, mostly because on some forums that is part of my signature or next to my name.
BTW, as pointing out the downside, I never claimed that silnylon does not sag (as an example) I just point out that if the shelter is re-tensioned once the fabric has relaxed, you don't need to do it again. If you get up more than once to do it , it was not done correctly the first time.
For example , looking at your sagging silnylon second photo, at that point the fabric has stretched as far as it goes so it needs to be done only once.
Years ago , possibly before I joined Tarptent, there was a lot of discussion about misting and or penetration with some silnylon.
I pointed out at the time, on several occasions, that I had both, although penetration only happened for me from drops from tree fronds (big blobs) not directly from rain drops on the shelter.
At the time the TT silnylon waterhead (and most others) was around 1200mm, it is now around 3000 with the current fabric.
Arc-Niner
04-06-2017, 19:11
Guys, I really appreciate all the perspectives in this thread. This is all very helpful to me. It sounds like my choice is between silnylon and the sagging issues and cuben fiber with its vulnerability to punctures and high cost. Looking at the Zpacks Duplex, is that roof just a big rectangle of cuben with the pull outs in the middle? And if I decide on silnylon, is there anything better than say a Tarptent Notch?
soumodeler
04-06-2017, 19:20
Guys, I really appreciate all the perspectives in this thread. This is all very helpful to me. It sounds like my choice is between silnylon and the sagging issues and cuben fiber with its vulnerability to punctures and high cost. Looking at the Zpacks Duplex, is that roof just a big rectangle of cuben with the pull outs in the middle? And if I decide on silnylon, is there anything better than say a Tarptent Notch?
Not quite sure what you are asking about the Duplex? Do you mean is there anything on the tent other than the pull outs for the "roof"? No there is not. Inside there are pockets at the bottom, but on the outside there is nothing in the middle and only the door roll up closures at the edges.
As far as the Notch, it is a great tent. I still have mine even though I am now using the Duplex exclusively. There are a lot of good tents out there, but I just liked the way the Notch was built and its (for me) perfect size and weight combo.
eggymane
04-06-2017, 20:03
Guys, I really appreciate all the perspectives in this thread. This is all very helpful to me. It sounds like my choice is between silnylon and the sagging issues and cuben fiber with its vulnerability to punctures and high cost. Looking at the Zpacks Duplex, is that roof just a big rectangle of cuben with the pull outs in the middle? And if I decide on silnylon, is there anything better than say a Tarptent Notch?
The duplex is a good shelter, it is basically a tarp with an integrated bathtub floor with a strip of bug netting on both ends and bug net zippered entries which connects the roof to the floor. It's simple in its design which is appealing.
As far as silnylon tents, the notch is good, but you may also look at LightHeart Gear.
Arc-Niner
04-06-2017, 20:41
Not quite sure what you are asking about the Duplex? Do you mean is there anything on the tent other than the pull outs for the "roof"? No there is not. Inside there are pockets at the bottom, but on the outside there is nothing in the middle and only the door roll up closures at the edges.
Sorry, I wasn't being very clear. You answered my question in any case. :)
Arc-Niner
04-06-2017, 20:43
The duplex is a good shelter, it is basically a tarp with an integrated bathtub floor with a strip of bug netting on both ends and bug net zippered entries which connects the roof to the floor. It's simple in its design which is appealing.
As far as silnylon tents, the notch is good, but you may also look at LightHeart Gear.
Thanks! I'll check out LightHeart Gear as well. Does the Duplex design with the bug netting around the bottom function as designed in terms of giving condensation a way to run out of the tent without dripping on you at night? And do you wish those outer doors zippered shut instead of just overlapping with the toggle closures?
soumodeler
04-06-2017, 20:50
Thanks! I'll check out LightHeart Gear as well. Does the Duplex design with the bug netting around the bottom function as designed in terms of giving condensation a way to run out of the tent without dripping on you at night? And do you wish those outer doors zippered shut instead of just overlapping with the toggle closures?
The Duplex is designed to control condensation by letting it run out the ends over the bathtub floor. In theory it sounds good but I have never had any significant condensation inside so I can't say for sure.
I see no need for a zipper as the best thing to do is leave them open unless it is really raining.
I appreciate your viewpoint, and I hear you about the quality of Big Agnes gear. It sounds like I am going in the other direction from you in terms of tent weight, however. I've already got a 1-person freestanding tent, and I want to see if I can go to something lighter that will still provide reliable weather protection. I might regret it, but at least I want to put a toe into that pond. :)
I wasn't recommending any particular tent, you asked what tents I owned.
If you like Tarptent then I would recommend the Moment DW. It's pretty roomy, very weather proof and easy to set up. It also has an inner liner available to help with condensation control.
As an aside, one of my issues with Tarptent or any single wall shelter with a bathtub floor connected to mesh, connected a ceiling is the way it receives fresh air supply. I typically camp at higher elevations, temperatures can drop 30, 40, or 50*'s overnight, winds shift direction and become more powerful with the temperature deltas. With an air intake 6"s above the ground, chilled air can come across your face and body. If I were to purchase a Moment DW, I'd get an inner liner for use under certain conditions, may not be required in the SE at low elevations.
I think getting those concerns answered will get me started (and spark more detailed questions about different models/designs). Thanks everyone.[/QUOTE]
something else to consider is the number of stakes that are required to set up a tent. For instance if one needs to use msr groundhog stakes, 0.67 oz , the oz can add up quickly, and in some cases the difference between a popular cuben fiber shelter vs a popular sil nylon shelter can come down to 2 to 3 oz.
My point is that the small details can make the differences much smaller.
One can mitigate by going to a carbon fiber stake, but then the price goes up accordingly.
one other thing is to consider what it will be like to set a specific shelter at the end of a long day in poor conditions.
YMMV
If I were to purchase a Moment DW, I'd get an inner liner for use under certain conditions, may not be required in the SE at low elevations
The Moment DW is a double wall tent, the liner was an accessory for the single wall first version (Moment)
It can be bought with the mesh or the "solid" (fabric) inner , as in this photo :
38975
The Notch has a mes or a partial fabric inner, like this :
38976
franco@tarptent
Why do want to sleep on the ground?
For me, when I was looking for a lightweight solo tent, I ended up with a hammock setup because of how it mitigated all the concerns I had. I now have better overall coverage with enough room to cook, etc., no condensation issues ever, and I'm more comfortable. Just sayin'.
DuneElliot
04-07-2017, 09:01
Why do want to sleep on the ground?
For me, when I was looking for a lightweight solo tent, I ended up with a hammock setup because of how it mitigated all the concerns I had. I now have better overall coverage with enough room to cook, etc., no condensation issues ever, and I'm more comfortable. Just sayin'.
I love my Duplex and ground set-up and will keep it for trips that need it but I am migrating to hammocks for the exact same reason. Plus, I can use my winter tarp on the ground as a floorless tent/tarp as well as for the hammock.
ggreaves
04-07-2017, 09:35
The OP covered it before. He's an aspiring hammock guy but wants a tent for above treeline camping (and will have to live with the condensation).
I see a couple of mentions on the lightheartgear tents. We have one and love it. The awning is awesome. Especially when it's raining. I just wish I would have gotten the awning on both sides. The LHG tents have vents up on the peak. I'm sure that helps some with condensation. I'm suprised more tents don't have these.
I have a cuben tarp. Love it. Saving pop bottles for a cuben tent now. I just wish I had bought one a LHG cuben tents before they quit making them. You don't ever see them come up for sale on here.....
Gambit McCrae
04-07-2017, 11:03
Hello! This is my first post here on WB. I've been reading quite a bit here about all the different tents and shelter systems available, and I think my questions are a little more basic. I'll explain:
So I've been backpacking for years now, and all of my hear is much heavier than it needs to be. Currently I've been using an Easton Rimrock 1P tent, which weighs 50 oz. The idea of cutting that weight almost in half delights my middle-aged hiking legs on week-long trips on the trails.
I like the idea of ditching poles and using my hiking poles, but what tradeoff am I making against wind and rain?
Silnylon is lighter than what I have, and less expensive than cuben tents, but how badly does it stretch when it gets wet? (re-adjusting my pitch through a rainy night is not my idea of late-night entertainment.)
Double wall tents are a defense against interior wetness due to condensation, but are modern single-wall tents better vented to produce less of a condensation risk?
I think getting those concerns answered will get me started (and spark more detailed questions about different models/designs). Thanks everyone.
Ill give my short answer last :)
The trade off I have found with using trekking poles as tent poles is this and only this: If I break a pole, it effects my shelter setup. Its not going to be the end of the world, but I am going to have a less sturdy shelter for a couple nights. I have found no trade off in regards to wind and or rain.
Sylnylon tents: I have spent over 120 nights in one and have not ever gotten out in the middle of the night to adjust. However, Tipi is correct that if setup in a dropping temperature environment, the tent will require tightening the guy lines but I have always done this before going to bed for the night, or have woken up the next morning with a slightly relaxed pitch that has not ever caused any issues, just looks a bit sloppy.
SW vs DW tent: I have no experience with a SW tent, but I don't think that having an all mesh insert in a sylnylon tent is going to produce less condensation then the same tent, without the insert. Its all about ventilation. Unless it is gunna for sure come a real gully washer, or below freezing, I leave my tent doors open at night, zero condensation the next morning.
So my short answer. This option will give you the most weight reduction, while using trekking poles, with the most ventilation, and I have found over the past 6 months has givin me a whole new perspective to going to sleep, and waking up WITH nature, instead of secluding myself off to my tent at night. Tarp camping. I have a cuben tarp with a tyvek floor clothe. If you would like a little more protection, buy an insert for it with a bathtub floor and bug mesh.
Welcome to WB
The OP covered it before. He's an aspiring hammock guy but wants a tent for above treeline camping (and will have to live with the condensation).
You're right, I missed that post.
I was once an "aspiring" hammock guy... had pretty much the same outlook with regard to "treeless" campsites (as well as cold weather). Over time, I would get out in these spots and I'd realize, "well, gee, I coulda hung here". As a result, I'm not "aspiring" anymore.
Unless you're going to one of those REI ad spots where it looks like you could roll over and off a cliff, there are truly few spots where you can't hang. In those times, the hammock can become a bivy and you can tarp tent. Not saying there isn't some validity to the OPs viewpoint on his needs, only he can say what they are, but I also know how those "needs" can come to be in the mind.
saltysack
04-12-2017, 10:06
I love my LHG Solong but recently bought a cuben duomid to shave off over a lb both entirely different and have positives and negatives....if worried about a cuben floor the duomid is worth a look simply use a piece of cheap tyvek or poly....the sil floor of my Solong has had lots of use with my jack Russell and not an issue.....both of these have sustained severe weather without issues or leaks other than typical east coast condensation. I always put my wind or rain jack zipped up over the foot box of my quilt like a condom for that extra protection![emoji51]
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MtDoraDave
04-15-2017, 15:24
My first hiking tent was the Tarptent Squall 2, the predecessor to the MoTrail. It weighed only 34 oz, and room for two or lots of room for stuff next to me on either side. But I don't care for the "beak" vestibule. For me, it isn't ideal. Also, if not pitched perfectly, the rain can sometimes ride down the side of the tent onto the screen that runs the perimeter of the tent, and puddle slightly inside from wicking through the screen/mesh. The other thing about it I don't care for - but MANY other tents have this same issue, is that you have to scoot back to the front entry door to be able to sit up inside it. It is also a single wall, and the "misting" some people talk about, I believe, is condensation on the inside being knocked off by big fat rain drops hitting the outside.
I borrowed a Notch for my last section hike. It is smaller inside than I'm used to, but big enough. Setup is super fast. Only 4 stakes required for standard pitch. Vestibules are low enough to keep everything stored under them to remain dry during rains. The guy I borrowed it from says he's never had one drop get inside during any of the rains he's camped through.
I looked online at the Solong 6 by Lightheart Gear, and iirc, the only thing that turned me off was the piece of metal that gets inserted in the apex prior to pitching... I wondered if it could be left in and just roll up the tent without removing it - but doing so may damage the tent, causing leaks. Inserting one piece of metal would certainly take less time than assembling and inserting the pole in the foot of my Squall 2, but the Notch is SO fast to set up; no poles to assemble, no parts to insert. You don't even have to take the time to figure out which side is the entry side, because it's the same on either side. Normally an extra minute or even an extra 10 seconds are a non-issue. If you are in a hurry, why are you walking? But in the rain, the time it takes to set up a tent is a big deal. - and there will be times when you have to set up your tent when it is raining.
I hope I'm not providing disinformation about the LHG product. The owner seems to be awesome, and many people are completely happy with her products and service. If I am mistaken, I apologize, and I have no doubt I will be corrected. ;)
The "metal" piece is plastic tubing.
Wayne
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MtDoraDave
04-15-2017, 21:46
Can it be left in place and rolled up with the tent?
Can it be left in place and rolled up with the tent?
I don't know. Ask Judy or watch a few videos. I'm sure the answer is online somewhere. Saltysack here on WhiteBlaze will know.
Wayne
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saltysack
04-16-2017, 22:25
Can it be left in place and rolled up with the tent?
Yea but no reason...takes no time to remove and goes in stuff sack much easier and faster without it. i simply slide it out without fooling with the Velcro...I remove and slide in stuff sack after the tent...for first few uses I fought trying to get into the stock stuff sack until I did as Judy recommended....very simple...great shelter very fast and simple to set up...highly recommended it.
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saltysack
04-16-2017, 22:26
As Wayne said it's a simple piece of plastic tubing not metal...
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saltysack
04-16-2017, 22:55
Also the awning is huge....as the TT you can enter either side but I prefer the non awning side so the awning stays intact....I'm just a weekend warrior but my Solong has been used for about 1,000 miles and is still like new and don't use a ground cloth.....It has been used on the jmt, fht, collegiate loop, 400+\~ miles on the AT as well as several Sup expedition races through glades and 10k islands.......if you end up buying a Solong I have an few sections of Easton carbon poles I'll give ya for the awning pole if you want it......
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