LDH after RNY (i.e. food limitations)

[kmlynne]

I am just starting to look at LDHing and of course, food is a main concern. Since having RNY surgery almost a year ago, my "food lifestyle" has drastically changed.

On a regular day, I am lucky to get in 1000cal (120 protein/<50 carbs). On days that I go day hiking, I might get up to 1500cal. After reading multiple books, and many threads on forums, I still can't imagine getting 4000cal a day, or more. Mostly because of the types of food. This summer, I have several hiking trips planned (multi-day), but all will be day hikes from a central location, so I won't have to haul gear. I figure this is a good way to start out, but want to plan meals/food that I could easily carry and prepare on the trail.

Here's my problem for LDH: Almost everything that I read talks about pastas, candy, pastries, pizza, pancakes, etc.... All foods I physically can no longer eat without getting sick.

Has anyone done multi-day long distance hiking after RNY, and been able to get the calories needed for this endeavor without being able to delve into the high carb/fat foods that so many talk about?

Looking for advise and suggestions!

[One Half]

what is RNY?

I don't eat any of the typical hiker food. I make and freeze dry all my food for hiking. Actually, this is the first LDH I will do since starting this way of eating (Wheat Belly). There is a link in my signature line for the thread I created to talk all about it.

[cliffordbarnabus]

yeah....what's RNY?

[Dogwood]

I think the OP is referring to gastric bypass surgery. It's usually done as an extreme measure to control eating habits and address morbid obesity. It's characterized by a quicker feeling of satiation and less absorption of nutrients. It may be the same surgery the weatherman Al Roker had.

My question is your Rny permanent or temporary? I think some types are temporary. Your LDing situation in regards to your ongoing health and on trail nutrition should be discussed with your doctors who performed the Rny which usually involves a team including nutritionists and follow up counselors pre LD hike.

It's my contention as a member of the LDing community that a significant percentage of LD hikers expose themselves to eating disorders. Since Rny is a drastic measure that most often addresses eating disorders in itself I understand your concern.

Malabsorption can be a very real issue. Combining it with strenuous physical and mental exertion on trail after having lost much weight in the recent past exacerbates the monitoring required. Just because the wt has fallen off you still may be carrying around low muscle strength and a significant body fat percentage. It's my guess you may have to supplement on trail and pay very close attention to consuming optimally nutritious/nutrient dense food NOT JUST HIGH CALORIE AND HIGH FIBER FOODS while monitoring your energy AND WELL BEING levels. It's not just about avoiding or no longer desiring starchy or sugar laden or junk food. IMO, you particularly should avoid nutrient denatured food/food like products most often associated with highly processed highly refined food like substances.

It's also about staying hydrated since drinking water can leave you satiated with no nutritional component. SMALL sips. On this note I'm pondering if a nutrient dense NON SUGARY drink mix that isn't as filling might be wise to supplement with on trail?

I'm of your opinion that it would be wise to experience some multi day hikes pre LD hike. Losing vast amounts of body weight, as I'm sure your M.D.s have made clear, has to be followed up on professionally by nutritionists as all that weight could have made your bodies organs and systems weakened. Careful nutritional and medical follow up is vitally important as I'm sure you've been advised. Rny can be perceived as a life saving medical procedure that contributes to long lasting lifestyle changes. It's not a magic bullet over and done situation.

Wishing you all my best.

[kmlynne]

Dogwood - thank you for your reply - it did clarify a lot of what i was trying to relate.

My RNY (gastric bypass) is permanent. It was a medical necessity that gave me back my life. Yes, I will have to take supplements on the trail. Yes I will have to continue taking protein supplements (I use protein powder to supplement). I have worked very, very hard to keep my muscle strength up while losing body fat. I am in better shape now than I have ever been. I do fairly routine 10-18 mile hikes at this time. Daily hikes, however, do not require me to increase my calorie intake.

Water (fluids) should not be a problem. I have no problem getting over 3L of water in each day. I have no concerns about water (except for the normal issues of water while LDHing).

I suppose I am just looking for thoughts and ideas on how to get so many calories in with good, wholesome foods, and ideas of what to carry. I am looking for confirmation that this can be done.

Of course, as I get closer to actually planning, I will talk with my Dr and NUT.

[Dogwood]

Can you eat fatty fishes such as salmon or sardines(in moderation) or EVOO packed baby oysters? Can you eat cod?

nuts(cashews, almond, walnuts, filberts, pistachios, etc, watch the salt content, *go for RAW sprouted varieties which have more nutrition!),
seeds(hemp, chia/SABA, pumpkin, sunflower, etc, *AGAIN seek out RAW sprouted varieties which are fresh which contain added nutrients!, the RAW varieties eaten that way help to digest and assimilate which should be a priority for you!), and their butters(almond, cashew, etc),

berries(- fresh, freeze dried, dehydrated, and powdered, nutritional powerhouses!, think outside the box too from blue, rasp, straw, cranberries(NO sugar added!) with acai($$$), goji($$) , mulberries(Dried), pomegranate, lychee, etc which can be found in powdered form),

cruciferous vegetable/greens(kale, spinach, collards, chard, mustard, turnip, broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, arugula, baby bok choy, etc, AGAIN the goodness of enzymes, phytonutrients, etc are still in there if YOU mix in some RAW samplings which will help the digestion and assimilation),

legumes(lentils, black beans, chick peas, and soups containing them, they can be bought pre cooked and dehydrated or you can dehydrate yourself),

Miso soup powder - *low Na, NO MSG, can be the base for a soup or grain added to it

peanuts,

hummus,

sprouts(super nutritious!, I grow my own ON TRAIL using Outdoor Herbivores Trail Sprouting Kit, easy in an AT LD hiking environment, let me know through a PM if this is something you want to do as it will be my gift sending you this small kit which includes all that you need to get started to recognize how far you've come:banana, a healthier more vibrant energized hilarious dancing banana is apt for you!),

BAKED Apple, Sweet Potato, and Kale Chips,

fresh red peppers,

spirulina - only buy the highest quality powder or supplemental pills, this could be a decent alternative protein source with micro nutrients sometimes compared to as an eggs alternative, add to day time drinks, mixed into entrees, etc.
https://authoritynutrition.com/10-proven-benefits-of-spirulina/

mushrooms(dried or powdered, don't go after the white button shrooms, seek greater nutritional profile shroom varieties!),

100% cocoa powder(preferably organic, add into trail mixes containing nuts, I sprinkle cocoa on fresh banana or banana chips eaten with a nut butter, can be added to non sugary B-fast/multi-use grains like quinoa(GREAT nutrient density!, actually another seed which overall are nutrient powerhouses!),

quinoa - can be bought in expensive flakes resembling an oatmeal consistency that cooks FAST eaten as is like a porridge or added to chilis or bought pre cooked and dehydrated. You specifically may have to spend extra time in camp on a LD hike, at least in the beginning until you get a better feel for LD trail life as you individually experience it, so the extra whole quinoa cook time should NOT be perceived as a food deal breaker for the nutrient density trade off, *AGAIN SPROUTED quinoa is the way you should go!, the sprouted variety cooks a tiny bit faster for me!)

millet, amaranth, oats,

fresh garlic, ginger, turmeric, cilantro, parsley

*cinnamon - Ceylon is the best but $$

If at the dietary pt where it's OK IN MODERATION green tea or Matcha

Think whole foods with highest nutrient densities like vegetables, fruits - focusing on specifics like berries, lean meats, whole grains(grains vary on their nutrition, no white rice for you!). In some whole foods like vegetables there is some evidence the Organic options CAN have better nutritional profiles so this is something you should be aware!

These are nutrient dense suggestions for you to play with to add to or base meals.

The way you might work this plan since SOME items are in their heavier whole food unadulterated form - which you should be willing to accept for the nutrient density/better nutritional profile advantages! - is to resupply more often thereby giving you more on trail food wt/food volume wiggle room between resupplying. You may also want to mail a few resupply boxes containing harder to impossible reliably and easily locate foods on an AT LD hike to choice locations to sustain you between the 'buy as you' go resupplying. No other trail in the U.S. I know of(have done most) has the abundance of resupply ease as the AT IMHO with it's intently mega analyzed beta. Seek to resupply where med-lg grocery stores are located. Mail a box containing your nutrient rich goodies to other key places.

http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

Don't let anyone mislead you to believe nutrient dense healthy foods have to be expensive, are not available, are esoteric, are a big marketing hype, or aren't damn tasty. :banana

Of course, this can be done. If I can do this around the U.S. you can too!

[Francis Sawyer]

I think that your doctor can best address your questions. Start there.The questions you have are medical advice not hiking advice. Congrats on your new life but don't endanger yourself by taking risks.

[kestral]

Ghee made from grass fed cows is a healthy fat that is shelf (trail) stable after opening. High in calories..just looked at jar 1 tablespoon is 120 calories. Add some to any hot food. Tastes great too.

[kmlynne]

Dogwood: This is exactly what I was looking for and thinking about!!!!! The proteins are probably going to be the heaviest - and yes, I can eat all of those. Tuna and Salmon in the single serve foil packs are a mainstay for me. I look at jerkies, too, but would have to be careful with the salt content (however, I am thinking that LDH may make me need some higher salt, especially on the sweaty days). Freeze dried fruits and veggies are fairly new to me. I actually just got some and have been making some Scrambled Omelets with them here at home - so quick and easy. Will have to explore the egg powders to see how it would work with the veggies instead of whole eggs (just cause its easier to carry). The legumes would be good subs for the pasta in soups and stews. About the only thing that I could use would be the quinoa, oats, etc. I used to love eating all the seeds and grains, but I just don't have the stomach for it anymore.

I am so excited now!!!!!

[kmlynne]

Thank you Francis. I will definitely be talking with my doctor, but I have found that his advice is more along the lines of "stay with small, healthy, nutritional meals" is what I will hear. :) My question is more about what healthy, nutritional foods do people carry and how feasible it is. Right now, I get a lot of the "extra" calories I need from things like cheese and yogurt (dairy) - which I can't imagine trying to carry in a backpack for 5-10 days at a time.

[Farr Away]

The harder cheeses carry pretty well actually. They may get a little oily, but they're still edible.

-FA

[wannahike]

Right now, I get a lot of the "extra" calories I need from things like cheese and yogurt (dairy) - which I can't imagine trying to carry in a backpack for 5-10 days at a time.

The harder cheeses keep pretty well in a backpack, also string cheese or the baby bel's in a wax coating. If you want yogurt you can buy the yogurt baby melts, they are pretty good also you can dehydrate yogurt, I use leftover coffee can lids to make circles.
You can add dried coconut milk or Nido and water to a pouch of organic baby peas or other vegetable and make a soup. This does need some extra seasoning.

[Dogwood]

Dogwood: This is exactly what I was looking for and thinking about!!!!! The proteins are probably going to be the heaviest - and yes, I can eat all of those. Tuna and Salmon in the single serve foil packs are a mainstay for me. I look at jerkies, too,... The legumes would be good subs for the pasta in soups and stews. About the only thing that I could use would be the quinoa, oats, etc. I used to love eating all the seeds and grains, but I just don't have the stomach for it anymore.

I am so excited now!!!!!

I'm happy to hear you're making your way through the heaps of info in the food dung industry. I'm all about offering considerations and options rather than rigid food absolutism.

Some comments:

Remember protein can come from various sources. Protein needs don't have to always be addressed with a meat source, single source, or what's typically thought of as a protein source. For example, legumes and brown rice combined, hempseed, chia seed, buckwheat(which is not wheat, also called kasha, SOBA noodles are made from buckwheat, found in pretty much all LG grocery stores in the Asian section), PB on wheat Pita triangles, etc are complete proteins.

Of course you're not going to get all your needs from hemp or chia but adding these in helps to arrive at your wider nutritional goals faster, easier, densely carried, adds flavor/texture/etc

"The legumes would be good subs for the pasta in soups and stews."

You could do that but you no longer have to choose. You can have both pasta and beans simultaneously. Pasta is no longer just made from wheat! There are a wider variety of pastas commonly available in med-lg grocery stores like Krogers on the east coast. Explore Asian and Tolerant Foods have a line of pastas made from legumes(Adzuki - likely the most digestible legume, it's the little red beans you get in delish ice cream from the sushi bar labeled as Red Bean Ice Cream, Black Bean, Edamame. Mung, etc) These pastas are much higher in protein, fewer carbs, often wider nutritional profiles, ranges of fiber content often far exceeding wheat pasta that has been stripped of some of it's nutrition like most traditional branded wheat pastas. There's Red Lentil Bean pastas offered by Ancient Harvest and Bentilia. I've seen all three brands in lg grocery stores sometimes in the Organic or International sections.

Banza brand(don't personally see this as often, will find in health food stores) but this is another pasta made from a protein rich legume - chick peas.

Food For Life Ezekiel 4:9 Pasta is made from sprouted grains and legumes which is very high in protein and nutrition as well.

Ancient Harvest focuses on pasta from Non GMO corn and quinoa. Quinoa again is actually a seed not a grain although it's sometimes referred as a pseudo grain.

The idea being suggested is that grains, seeds, and nuts don't have to be consumed in their whole crunch crunch form to receive the nutritional benefits. And you get your protein simultaneously.

I'm guessing you have to experiment at home first on a high caloric output day to note the fiber content suitable for you specifically with the Rny. I assume you don't want to feel so satiated with fiber unless you're getting a wide range of optimal nutrition with it ...beyond just calories.

[lesliedgray]

yeah....what's RNY?

Gastric bypass, i'm thinking.. i think it is rouen -y ( phoenetically.... i can't remember the correct spelling)


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[Dogwood]

KMlynne, one more suggestion. Since you're already supplementing on trail with a protein powder don't think of it only in terms of a protein powder. You can get more in a powder. Don't settle for just protein if you're supplementing with a power. For you especially, think in terms of a powdered supplement that contains a wide array of vitamins and probiotics. You'll get more vitamins this way in a drinkable easier to digest and assimilate approach...important especially for you. The probiotics additionally help digestion and assimilation...again...very important for you. Since much energy can go into digesting foods a powdered protein supplement containing a wide array of live probiotics can help with your energy levels as well as offer a host of other benefits. I would suggest you experiment with this drink at home first to see how full it makes you. I would also experiment with it added dry to meals like oatmeal, trail mixes, desserts(puddings), etc so you're not forcing down a heavier drink as a mandatory daily nutritional requirement. Some folks get bloated with protein sourced from soy, whey, and other dairy. You may find less bloat, particularly useful for your situation, with alternative plant based protein powders containing low to no sugar. Sugar is probably not what you want to be consuming for carbs on trail. Simple refined sugar has been stripped of whatever lowly nutrition it did have.

Here's one product I take on trail, like during summer, when I supplement protein, probiotics and some vitamins by preferring to drink some of these. https://www.gardenoflife.com/content/product/why-choose-raw-protein/

[Patrickjd9]

Sounds like you are making a good choice by starting with day hikes from a base camp. For this trip you can use some things that aren't practical to backpack with.

Nuts are a popular trail food and a staple of backpacking for me, especially cashews. Dried fruit also works well.