Trail Magic - Max Patch - April 15th weekend

[palmettoheel]

If any NOBOs are reading this, I will be providing trail magic on Max Patch during Easter weekend (Sat/Sun). Burgers, chicken, dogs, cookies, klondike's, charging stations, etc.

Will be there rain or shine.

Blue Sky
NOBO '16

[solace]

Charging Stations!?!? WOW... you may get trail magic person of the year!! any filets or lobster??

[Lone Wolf]

nothing magical about it

[Mags]

Not sure if you are schlepping it all in to Max Patch itself? Perhaps an access road just after or just before may be a better place.

https://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/default-document-library/suggestions-for-providing-trail-magic.pdf

[BuckeyeBill]

Great article Mags.

[Lugnut]

Not sure if you are schlepping it all in to Max Patch itself? Perhaps an access road just after or just before may be a better place.

https://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/default-document-library/suggestions-for-providing-trail-magic.pdf
There is a parking lot at Max Patch.

[Mags]

There is a parking lot at Max Patch.

Yes there is. But is an iconic summit of the Southeast Appalachians the best place to stage trail magic versus an access road before or after the summit area?

Everyone has the right to pass on trail magic. But by putting the trail magic right at the summit, or close enough, of a well-known mountain, a choice of sorts is being forced.

Here's one idea:

39020

[cliffordbarnabus]

If any NOBOs are reading this, I will be providing trail magic on Max Patch during Easter weekend (Sat/Sun). Burgers, chicken, dogs, cookies, klondike's, charging stations, etc.

Will be there rain or shine.

Blue Sky
NOBO '16

super cool! you may want to consider some veggie options for burgers and dogs as a large % of thru hikers are veggies!

[Lone Wolf]

If any NOBOs are reading this, I will be providing trail magic on Max Patch during Easter weekend (Sat/Sun). Burgers, chicken, dogs, cookies, klondike's, charging stations, etc.

Will be there rain or shine.

Blue Sky
NOBO '16

ON max patch itself? not cool. there or the parking lot. move a few miles north to lemon gap

[TJ aka Teej]

https://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/default-document-library/suggestions-for-providing-trail-magic.pdf
"Locate events in developed areas on durable surfaces. Large gatherings in the backcountry can lead to trampling of plants, soil compaction, and disturbance of wildlife habitat. Trail towns and local parks are better locations. Keep events small. Consider whether your event may be contributing to an overabundance of trail feeds in the local area or region. Some hikers come to the Trail to seek solitude and contemplation."

[4eyedbuzzard]

About as dignified as playing paintball in a cemetery. Some places are special, just because they are.

[Puddlefish]

I ended up speed hiking (for me) over Max Patch last year due to the crowds, noise, views of powerlines, parking lots, etc. The place has been "loved" to death.

[ScareBear]

Plenty of folks from NC and GA go to Max Patch and glamp overnight. There is a decent road, a parking lot, and an easy walk to the top. It can be completely overrun with dayhikers/picnickers on a Saturday. But let's not go overboard about how special it is. The Forest Service hauls mechanical mowers up to the top and mows the Patch a few times every summer. It is not "natural" up there. It is completely un-natural. Great view, but that is due SOLELY to man's on-going intervention with nature.

Finally, about trail magic on the top. In my experience, folks set up the TM away from the actual AT treadway. You would have to leave the treadway, walk across a hundred yards of grass, or more, and then ask them what was going on. Or, they may walk up to you as you are hiking and just say "We've got trail magic for thrus over at the red tent." You can keep hiking. Or, partake. Or, set up your tent on the Patch far enough away from EVERYONE that you won't hear a dang thing. Oh, and the view is the same no matter where you are on the Patch. It is huge. But, it is in the Pisgah, the FS built a road and a parking lot there, and it is enjoyed by non-AT hikers to AT hikers at probably a 1000-1 ratio, so...yeah...it aint there just for you....just sayin...

Don't get me wrong, Max is a great place to hang. A great place to meet thru's. A great place to have some trail magic fun.

Of course, YMMV. But, doesn't it always?

Plus, it's fun to watch some of those glampers experience Max's winds....heh...."Your tent went WHERE?"....

[ScareBear]

Also, in my experience, thru's have heard about TM on Max Patch and do leave the treadway and hike across the meadow to check it all out and see if there is magic going on...just sayin...

[AllDownhillFromHere]

is it magic if you announce it?

[BuckeyeBill]

is it magic if you announce it?

Kind of like knowing the punch line to the joke ahead of time.

[evyck da fleet]

is it magic if you announce it?

That would be a hiker feed. Nothing magical about it.

As others have pointed out there are better places to have one than at the summit. If you want to have it in the parking lot feel free to put up and take down afterwards a flyer at the nearest access road or hold it there.

Just because others do something doesn't make it right. One terminus has already been moved because of hiker behavior.

[ScareBear]

That would be a hiker feed. Nothing magical about it.

As others have pointed out there are better places to have one than at the summit. If you want to have it in the parking lot feel free to put up and take down afterwards a flyer at the nearest access road or hold it there.

Just because others do something doesn't make it right. One terminus has already been moved because of hiker behavior.

People have weddings, wedding receptions, birthday parties, etc...right there on Max Patch. Preaching to AT'ers not to do something because "others" are doing it is a bit uncalled for in this instance. Again, the general public uses Max Patch at least 1000-1 to AT'ers. If Max Patch wasn't to be used and enjoyed by the general public the following must occur:

The road and parking lot must disappear.
The USFS must stop mowing Max Patch.
The AT must be re-routed around Max Patch.

Yeah, AT'ers are part of the General Public. Sorry to break the news.

[BuckeyeBill]

People have weddings, wedding receptions, birthday parties, etc...right there on Max Patch. Preaching to AT'ers not to do something because "others" are doing it is a bit uncalled for in this instance. Again, the general public uses Max Patch at least 1000-1 to AT'ers. If Max Patch wasn't to be used and enjoyed by the general public the following must occur:

The road and parking lot must disappear.
The USFS must stop mowing Max Patch.
The AT must be re-routed around Max Patch.

Yeah, AT'ers are part of the General Public. Sorry to break the news.

As evyck da fleet said just because some people have various activities on Max Patch does not necessarily make it right. The ATC has been pushing hikers (who normally are made up of people who are trying to get away from such events and commune with nature) to voluntarily register their departure date in order to spread out and prevent over crowding. I agree that events like this should be held well off the summit and trail. If people continue to over use the trail, it won't be able to recover from the previous overuse. People need to take ownership of the trail and start calling people out when they are vandalizing shelters, signs and other structures along the trail. I carry a small plastic grocery bag to pick up trash left by others who did not care to pack out their trash. Fire pits are not incinerators for trash. They also don't need a bonfire built in them. But if you start a fire, you should be the one to care after it as far as properly extinguishing it completely and cleaning it up under the Leave No Trace policy.

[ScareBear]

As evyck da fleet said just because some people have various activities on Max Patch does not necessarily make it right. The ATC has been pushing hikers (who normally are made up of people who are trying to get away from such events and commune with nature) to voluntarily register their departure date in order to spread out and prevent over crowding. I agree that events like this should be held well off the summit and trail. If people continue to over use the trail, it won't be able to recover from the previous overuse. People need to take ownership of the trail and start calling people out when they are vandalizing shelters, signs and other structures along the trail. I carry a small plastic grocery bag to pick up trash left by others who did not care to pack out their trash. Fire pits are not incinerators for trash. They also don't need a bonfire built in them. But if you start a fire, you should be the one to care after it as far as properly extinguishing it completely and cleaning it up under the Leave No Trace policy.

The only thing Max Patch has to do with the AT is that the AT happens to cross it. Max Patch is a USFS recreation area in the Pisgah National Forest. That's why there is a road. That is why there is a parking lot. Both of these things have not one thing to do with the AT. Recreation Area. Not a pristine wilderness area. The USFS MOWS IT. Come on folks, let us get a little realistic about EXACTLY what Max Patch is. It is a USFS recreation area. It is open to all forms of non-commercial, non-motorized, non-horseback activities. People bring 20x16 tents, coolers, Coleman stoves with propane tanks, etc...it is a public camping area with a road and a parking lot. And a great view. Iconic, even. But it aint the wilderness and AT hikers account for less than 1/1000th of it's use. Bemoan it's use/overuse if you wish, but sure as heck don't blame AT users for it. One One Thousandth of it's use.

[tagg]

You could set up where the trail crosses the access road, probably 1/4 mile or so before you get to the parking lot. There is a small area where you can park a car on the left side of the road, adjacent to the trail. It would keep you from having to carry anything up to the top, and it's wooded in that area so you and your car and your trail magic or whatever someone wants to call it wouldn't be visible from the summit, or even from the parking area.

I once hung out there on a weekday when it was less crowded and handed out beer/drinks/snacks to anyone who wanted them, and I didn't have a single hiker pass by without taking something before the final climb to the summit. I had two coolers in the trunk of my car and a basket of snacks, so nothing elaborate, but I hung out in a cool place all day, met some interesting people, and ended it with an overnighter on the summit. I guess I understand some of the animosity towards some of the hiker feeds that seem out of place when you come upon them, but if it bothers you to the point that it ruins your day, you're probably just an unhappy person in general.

[ScareBear]

If the AT crosses a USFS road and you get bent over a hiker feed occurring on a USFS road, then you may need to see a professional. What's next? You get mad when you see a dirt bike or Jeep on a Jeep road that intersects the AT?

And, just for reference, back in the day they used to land sightseeing planes on Max Patch for picnics. Max Patch hasn't been "wilderness" since Mac Fox owned it and cleared it. That was around 1870, I think. IIRC we should all be calling it Mac's Patch...after McClure "Mac" Fox.

[BuckeyeBill]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the AT a protected corridor that runs several hundred feet on either side of the trail? I remember watching a video where several people were working on the boundary lines, verifying survey markers and blazing the line with yellow paint. According to your logic, someone could haul in equipment and build a stage for a Woodstock style concert. While you say it's ok, I think most people, both hiker and non hiker would say that this is not what Max Patch was designed for. Granted the Forestry Service mows MP, I do believe that they are doing so in order to control the insect population. To answer your question, yes it does bother me to see motorized vehicles on a road that intersects the AT. Why you ask? Because it is another way to run off any wildlife in the area. I don't know about you, but enjoyed taking my children when they were little and now my grand children out in the woods and wilderness to see wildlife in their natural setting. Oh well, I have a car to paint.

[evyck da fleet]

I don't think hiker feeds would ever ruin my day. But if you want my attention a spot in the middle of the green tunnel at the bottom of a climb is ideal. If you're setting up atop Max Patch Franconia etc you are now competing for my attention with nature. I'd rather enjoy my hike then talk about it so I'll probably set up a respectful distance and refuse your generosity.

That being said, there will be plenty of soon to be dropouts, once trail days ends, that will love to tell you they are thru hiking and just as many who actually are.

I also understand that it's much more enjoyable for the OP to sit atop the summit waiting for thrus than at a crossing in the woods.

[Lone Wolf]

so many people spend so much money every year feeding folks that don't need to be fed.

[4eyedbuzzard]

so many people spend so much money every year feeding folks that don't need to be fed.Lots of people can't afford enough food - children, veterans, elderly. Hikers on vacation don't need to be fed. Here's an idea. Have a hiker feed but charge the hikers $20 each and then donate the proceeds to a food bank of some sort. To feed people who can't afford a vacation.

[Lone Wolf]

Lots of people can't afford enough food - children, veterans, elderly. Hikers on vacation don't need to be fed. Here's an idea. Have a hiker feed but charge the hikers $20 each and then donate the proceeds to a food bank of some sort. To feed people who can't afford a vacation.

good idea....

[ScareBear]

so many people spend so much money every year feeding folks that don't need to be fed.

Except that it isn't the calories that are being given away, its the quality of the food that most thrus only get when zeroing in town. Fresh eggs? Ice cold soda? Ice cold beer? Apples? Oranges? Bananas? Pie? Donuts? 1/2 pound Angus burgers with cheese and onion buns? Hot dogs? Fresh hot coffee/cider/tea/chai? Pancakes? Bacon? Ribs? Italian Beef? BBQ Brisket? Fried Chicken and cole slaw? Famous Amos Chocolate Chip Cookies? Smores? Water stashes by the 5 gallon container at dry crossings? I've seen it all and more...It makes people feel good to give it and it makes most(not all) people feel good to receive it. Obviously, and as always, YMMV and probably does...

Also, don't forget services/things that aren't "needed" but appreciated. Charge your charger? Empty your garbage? Need a lighter? Hand sanitizer? Seen all that and more...

Don't like/want/need? Just walk on by. You don't even have to smile. I just don't see how this on a road or atop an incredibly public place with all kinds of stuff going on(like a kid's soccer game or a wedding) can harsh anyone's buzz about anything on the AT. If you want to experience Max Patch without people, I'd try....a Wednesday...December 13 should work this year...

[Lone Wolf]

Except that it isn't the calories that are being given away, its the quality of the food that most thrus only get when zeroing in town. Fresh eggs? Ice cold soda? Ice cold beer? Apples? Oranges? Bananas? Pie? Donuts? 1/2 pound Angus burgers with cheese and onion buns? Hot dogs? Fresh hot coffee/cider/tea/chai? Pancakes? Bacon? Ribs? Italian Beef? BBQ Brisket? Fried Chicken and cole slaw? Famous Amos Chocolate Chip Cookies? Smores? Water stashes by the 5 gallon container at dry crossings? I've seen it all and more...It makes people feel good to give it and it makes most(not all) people feel good to receive it. Obviously, and as always, YMMV and probably does...

Also, don't forget services/things that aren't "needed" but appreciated. Charge your charger? Empty your garbage? Need a lighter? Hand sanitizer? Seen all that and more...

Don't like/want/need? Just walk on by. You don't even have to smile. I just don't see how this on a road or atop an incredibly public place with all kinds of stuff going on(like a kid's soccer game or a wedding) can harsh anyone's buzz about anything on the AT. If you want to experience Max Patch without people, I'd try....a Wednesday...December 13 should work this year...

gimme a break. "thrus" don't suffer. they need nothing.

[ScareBear]

Needing/wanting aren't the same, this is true. But, even in town, how many eat right? It isn't necessary, this is also true.

There's lot's of things you don't "need" but want. Fresh fruit on the AT comes to mind. So does sex. Not necessarily on the AT. Just sayin....

[Lone Wolf]

whatever.....

[Starchild]

.... hikers (who normally are made up of people who are trying to get away from such events and commune with nature) ....

I would disagree with this, I don't think they are in the majority of the hiking population any more, nor the AT Thru population. I would agree it was true at one time, and many old school hikers want that to remain, but hiking is a fusion of social and nature for the new majority of hikers.

[Starchild]

Lots of people can't afford enough food - children, veterans, elderly. Hikers on vacation don't need to be fed. Here's an idea. Have a hiker feed but charge the hikers $20 each and then donate the proceeds to a food bank of some sort. To feed people who can't afford a vacation.

Then do it brother if that's they way you want to help, but let others do it their way, including showing human kindness the way they chose. Giving help to those who can really appreciate it and many will desire to help others due to the kindness they received. Knowing there is a place, such as the AT, where human kindness flows so freely has helped many restore their faith in humanity. Many people hike the AT to transition their life from one phase to another, a great time to extend kindness. IMHO this is a great cause to support.

[BuckeyeBill]

I would disagree with this, I don't think they are in the majority of the hiking population any more, nor the AT Thru population. I would agree it was true at one time, and many old school hikers want that to remain, but hiking is a fusion of social and nature for the new majority of hikers.

Yes us "old school hikers want it to remain a wilderness". That's our entire point! I am not directing this at any "New school Hikers", but instead of learning how to read a map and use a compass, they whip out their phone because "I got an App for that." Maybe not on the AT, but people go from the AT to the PCT or CDT. Out there your phone is not going to get you out of a jam. It will tell you the time and possibly your GPS Coordinates, but if you can't get a signal your pretty much SOL. How many times do we read about students on spring break that say "let's do the AT for a week or two". I just read one of the articles on here about kids from Minnesota who got hemmed in on Max Patch. Two were taken out suffering from hypothermia, and the rest had to wait for a second shuttle to pick them up. This all happened after they were told to turn back and get into town as there was a storm approaching. You aren't in Kansas any more Toto.

I have seen the type hikers that go into town and won't follow the Hostel's rules, get loaded and cause disturbances in bars and restaurants and carry a bottle of some type of alcohol to the top of Mount Katahdin to drink even though the Baxter Park rules state very clearly that this is prohibited. Oh I forgot, those rules don't apply to them, it's only illegal if I get caught. Between this and paving paradise to put up a parking lot, there will come a time when the AT, PCT and all the other trails will be only written about in history books.

[ScareBear]

Yes us "old school hikers want it to remain a wilderness". That's our entire point! I am not directing this at any "New school Hikers", but instead of learning how to read a map and use a compass, they whip out their phone because "I got an App for that." Maybe not on the AT, but people go from the AT to the PCT or CDT. Out there your phone is not going to get you out of a jam. It will tell you the time and possibly your GPS Coordinates, but if you can't get a signal your pretty much SOL. How many times do we read about students on spring break that say "let's do the AT for a week or two". I just read one of the articles on here about kids from Minnesota who got hemmed in on Max Patch. Two were taken out suffering from hypothermia, and the rest had to wait for a second shuttle to pick them up. This all happened after they were told to turn back and get into town as there was a storm approaching. You aren't in Kansas any more Toto.

I have seen the type hikers that go into town and won't follow the Hostel's rules, get loaded and cause disturbances in bars and restaurants and carry a bottle of some type of alcohol to the top of Mount Katahdin to drink even though the Baxter Park rules state very clearly that this is prohibited. Oh I forgot, those rules don't apply to them, it's only illegal if I get caught. Between this and paving paradise to put up a parking lot, there will come a time when the AT, PCT and all the other trails will be only written about in history books.

Not all of the AT was "wilderness" before the AT. Over the years, many corporations have given land over to US and it has been incorporated into the AT. The AT goes right through former commercial timber land. The AT goes right through towns, for goodness sakes. How long has it been since Harper's Ferry or Hot Springs were settled? More than 2 centuries? The AT currently crosses privately owned land that is farmed or used as pasture. The AT crosses Interstate 40!! I am pretty sure Interstate 40 is not wilderness. I hope that the sound of semi-trucks for the miles before and after that crossing doesn't harsh your "wilderness" buzz too badly. The IDEA of the AT is for a "wilderness" corridor, and it is a good and noble idea. And, for the most part, it succeeds. But, if you want your best shot at "wilderness" LD hiking in the US....I am thinking CDT or PCT. The AT has plenty of "wilderness" but it aint exlcusively "wilderness". Never was, never will be.

And although I do truly love Max Patch, it cracks me up to no end to hear people bitch about the crowds/activities that go on there. Max Patch was used COMMERCIALLY by it's OWNERS since at least 1870 up until it became part of the Pisgah. There was a report of a barnstorming fly-in and show that attracted over 3000 spectators in the 30's. If you think about it, a bald like Max Patch is really an ecological abomination. Solely man-made and not one damn thing "natural" or "wilderness" about it...

[Starchild]

.... a bald like Max Patch is really an ecological abomination. Solely man-made and not one damn thing "natural" or "wilderness" about it...

A ecological abomination or a very natural part of what man does as part of the ecosystem? A cleared area devoid of any structures except for some "alter" ( such as what is at the top of max patch) is a very natural thing for a human society to have as a social gathering point going back to prehistoric times. This is not a
Paved shopping mall but a field maintained for human use and gatherings. It is part of our natural tendency of being socIal and saying that is a ecological abomination is like saying a never dam or a ant hill is.


It's not a ecological abomination it's a ecological accommodation. A fusion of nature and society and for some spirituality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[-Rush-]

Trail magic should be magical, not a big festival at a gap or other known area. I don't usually eat their food, but I'll grab a soda or energy drink. If you want to be part of real magic here are a few ideas:

Position yourself with a cooler full of Gatorade at:

- the top of Kelly Knob, Courthouse Bald, or some other ass-kicking climb.
- down a blue blaze leading to a view that most hikers should see.
- spell a number combo with rocks/sticks on the ground a mile before they see the combo locked cooler.

You get the idea. Don't promote the spread of viruses. Keep it clean and add to the adventure.

[soilman]

Trail magic should be magical, not a big festival at a gap or other known area. If you want to be part of real magic here are a few ideas:



Volunteer for a trail crew http://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/conservation/advocacy/trail-management#TrailCrews
Join a local trail club to do trail maintenance
Monitor trail corridor

[Starchild]

Volunteer for a trail crew http://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/conservation/advocacy/trail-management#TrailCrews
Join a local trail club to do trail maintenance
Monitor trail corridor

All good suggestion but let's not get preachy on how one must give back to the trail. There are many ways to help out the trail and not everyone fits into a neat box.

[TNhiker]

read elsewhere this morning that another group is doing a feed up there on april 22nd......

[solace]

I could not agree with this MORE!!!! Many places on the A.T. are to left alone.. they are not designed for "Trail Magic" .. which, in my opinion.. is not MAGIC anymore.. its just a free feed with ALOT of self entitled hikers who get upset when thier is no cheese for the cheeseburgers.. or no VEGAN options.. good lord!! Its just out of hand... the new classes.. have it WAYYYY to easy..... People mean well Yes.... but.... Hikers should NOT have freee food and crap every day for teh first 4oo miles!!!

[ScareBear]

I could not agree with this MORE!!!! Many places on the A.T. are to left alone.. they are not designed for "Trail Magic" .. which, in my opinion.. is not MAGIC anymore.. its just a free feed with ALOT of self entitled hikers who get upset when thier is no cheese for the cheeseburgers.. or no VEGAN options.. good lord!! Its just out of hand... the new classes.. have it WAYYYY to easy..... People mean well Yes.... but.... Hikers should NOT have freee food and crap every day for teh first 4oo miles!!!

Why not?

Seriously. Why not? And, what is it to you whether it is there or not?

[AllDownhillFromHere]

I could not agree with this MORE!!!! Many places on the A.T. are to left alone.. they are not designed for "Trail Magic" .. which, in my opinion.. is not MAGIC anymore.. its just a free feed with ALOT of self entitled hikers who get upset when thier is no cheese for the cheeseburgers.. or no VEGAN options.. good lord!! Its just out of hand... the new classes.. have it WAYYYY to easy..... People mean well Yes.... but.... Hikers should NOT have freee food and crap every day for teh first 4oo miles!!!

Agreed. It's not that hard.

[solace]

WHY NOT??!! Because these parts of the trail are becoming over run.. "Trail Magic" is becoming way to over bearing .. to where, in my 8 weeks a year of being a VOLUNTEER shuttle driver out of western NC. I am having to pack out this Trail Magic crap.. those who just leave it.... Why NOT? Because the 30-50 hikers i drive around each day, pick up at gaps, are asking "where can i plug in" ... "when can i charge my phone" ect... NOT... "WHERE IS THE BEST VIEW IN THIS AREA" or "Whats a great part of town" ..... WHY NOT!?!? is because the newbies expect more... and there sense of ENTITLEMENT only grows....

[soilman]

All good suggestion but let's not get preachy on how one must give back to the trail. There are many ways to help out the trail and not everyone fits into a neat box.
I am not getting preachy. I am just offering alternatives if one feels a need to give back to the trail. Feeding hikers does nothing to help out the trail. Let's be honest. Many people who want to do hiker feeds want to be part of the thru hiking experience. This in turn makes folks who are attempting a thru hike feel like a rock star and these feed providers are like groupies. I have witnessed first hand how this entitlement builds. Hikers come to every road intersection expecting a feed or at the least a cooler full of drinks and snacks. I have seen hikers change their hiking plans in order to make a hiker feed. Some feeds have hundreds of hikers. How does this help the trail?

[JumpMaster Blaster]

Then do it brother if that's they way you want to help, but let others do it their way, including showing human kindness the way they chose. Giving help to those who can really appreciate it and many will desire to help others due to the kindness they received. Knowing there is a place, such as the AT, where human kindness flows so freely has helped many restore their faith in humanity. Many people hike the AT to transition their life from one phase to another, a great time to extend kindness. IMHO this is a great cause to support.

Can I count on you to donate to my thru hike? GoFundMe info wil lbe sent via PM.

[BuckeyeBill]

I never said the the AT was a "protected Wilderness corridor". I merely stated the trail is a protected corridor whether it is private or public. Speaking of private land, the trail has less than 1/2 of 1 percent on private land and they are constantly working to purchase or secure these areas. The Trust for Public Land recently purchased the 175 acre Hudson Farm from Dartmouth College. They then turn the property over to the National Park Service who then added to the AT. According to Hanover town manager Julia Griffin, the town had long been interested in conserving the Hudson Farm property. The farm is part of a recreation and wildlife corridor called “green pearls”. Oh darn how can it be a "wildlife corridor" if it is the middle of Hanover? I tell you how. It is actually located in Etna and was endowed to the college in 1963. I'm sure if you check you find out the town of Hanover and Etna got a whole lot bigger since 1963.

Max Patch is a large (360+ acres) cleared area that can accommodate large crowds. It has a road going to it and a parking lot adjacent to it. You say people have birthday parties and weddings there. Are the people have these gatherings familiar with the leave no trace policy. I would probably be correct if I said "No they don't." Can you picture a bunch of people in suits/tuxes and dresses walking over the area and picking everything off the ground. I make another guess and say after such an event, I could find food crumbs, cigarette butts and other trash that was "Over Looked." Then after all the fun, everyone grabs a chair and then goes back to return the grass to its prior state. again "I think no they don't." How many times is it preached to set up camp on durable surfaces. Return your camp site to its previous state. Don't leave dropped food on the ground, clean it up so wildlife can't associate people with food. If you have a fire use a previous fire ring. When your done, make sure it is put out completely (No unattended fires). Clean the ashes out and scatter them well away from the camp site, streams and the trail. This is why I don't think having a "Trail Magic" gathering on the summit is a good idea.

The newer generation has adopted a whats in it for me, and I'll do what I want to, legal or not. I can picture a group on top of Katahdin pulling out a couple of brews, a bottle or two of wine or champagne. Yes its illegal but they have to catch me first. Now lets pull out joint and have a round table meeting. Yep as long as they don't catch me it's fine. The gang now has a little buzz going. OK everyone time to leave. That little buzz starts to really kick in as you all descend and maybe or maybe not, someone takes a header into the rocks that make up the trail to the summit. Now a good time has turned into a rescue. Your friend is carried off the mountain and sent to the hospital. Now the Park Rangers get involved and what do you know, "Sir I smell alcohol on your breath and an odor of marijuana on your person." Just like that the whole gang is tested and all receive a nice invitation to go to another party held at the court house with a Judge as the host. Yep, now it's illegal and costly. It also goes into another report that the State of Maine gathers and the next thing you know, you have to make a reservation and pay for a permit to climb that mountain. Nothing against the State of Maine, but they could enact legislation that allows the Park Rangers to search your packs and person (similar to the TSA checkpoints) for illegal items. They could tell the ATC that they want the northern terminus moved off Mt. Katahdin. Yes Judge I am sorry that my actions on the summit resulted in the moving of the terminus.

The AT came into existence as a result of one man's thinking. On top of Springer there is a plaque that states "Appalachian Trail Georgia to Maine A footpath for those who seek fellowship with the wilderness". Just because man has done so much to destroy areas in the name of progress doesn't take anything away from the wilderness of the AT. It is 7.7 miles from I-40 to the next shelter if you are NOBO. I'm pretty sure I won't hear trucks and other traffic from I-40 at that distance. Trails pass through various towns for a few reason's. The designer's knew that hikers would have to resupply. They may want to clean up. Oh and let's not forget about a delicious meal that didn't come out of a bag and was boiled so they could eat it. The combined miles of the trail in towns and crossings of roads is minimal compared to the miles of "Wilderness" trail. You also need to remember that the trail's path was and still is the result of hard working clubs. That's why the mileage changes from year to year. They know when an area has been so overused, that it is better to relocate the trail while working to bring back the overused section.

Go out west and talk to the various Indian tribes and they will tell you of the desecration of the land and the near extinction of wildlife. You can even go talk to the Cherokee Tribe that fought back along the Tennessee-North Carolina borders. They will tell you stories that have been passed down from generation to generation. There is an excellent outdoor drama called Unto These Hills (http://www.cherokeehistorical.org/unto-these-hills/). It is the tragic and triumphant story of the Cherokee that traces back to the years before the heartbreak of the Trail of Tears to the present day. I first saw it when I was 8 years old. Today it amazes me that that play stuck with me some 50 years later. Yes the good old white man paved paradise to put up a parking lot even back then.

Today, any timber cutting on federal or state lands normally have a clause the states the companies cutting the timber and the mills they sell it to have to replant the area so we don't have Max Patch plots all over the country. They also have to reclamate any roads built for access to the area. It is no small job but at least they are trying to maintain wilderness areas for those of us that want to go out and sit naked on a stump in the middle of winter, but that's another story for another time. Take the time to memorize LNT measures.

[ScareBear]

WHY NOT??!! Because these parts of the trail are becoming over run.. "Trail Magic" is becoming way to over bearing .. to where, in my 8 weeks a year of being a VOLUNTEER shuttle driver out of western NC. I am having to pack out this Trail Magic crap.. those who just leave it.... Why NOT? Because the 30-50 hikers i drive around each day, pick up at gaps, are asking "where can i plug in" ... "when can i charge my phone" ect... NOT... "WHERE IS THE BEST VIEW IN THIS AREA" or "Whats a great part of town" ..... WHY NOT!?!? is because the newbies expect more... and there sense of ENTITLEMENT only grows....

Holy cow. Other than the garbage issue, you are just way out of line here. First of all, there are no parts of the AT that I am aware of that are being "run over". Maybe you are referring to where the AT crosses a PUBLIC ROADWAY INCLUDING USFS ROADS? If so, get over it. It's public. It aint the AT. If you aren't referring to where the AT crosses public property, then please give us some mile marks in NC where the actual AT is being "run over", I'll be in Hot Springs tomorrow, so I will definitely check out your story.

Secondly, may I ask exactly what AT Proper Hiking Police Department badge number you possess? Because, I have some news for you.......


IT AIN'T YOUR HIKE.

Really, who are you to force others to enjoy nature the way you think is proper?

And, finally, since you hate your volunteer job so much, because of all these entitlement hikers, why don't you just stop? Or, why don't you pop in to any trail town and announce that you are giving free shuttle rides. That goes over so bigly in towns where the locals depend on two or three months of shuttle fees to make it through the year that I am sure you will receive the warmest of welcomes....you do realize that by volunteering free shuttle rides you are taking money out of poor folks pockets, don't you?

[BuckeyeBill]

Holy cow. Other than the garbage issue, you are just way out of line here. First of all, there are no parts of the AT that I am aware of that are being "run over". Maybe you are referring to where the AT crosses a PUBLIC ROADWAY INCLUDING USFS ROADS? If so, get over it. It's public. It aint the AT. If you aren't referring to where the AT crosses public property, then please give us some mile marks in NC where the actual AT is being "run over", I'll be in Hot Springs tomorrow, so I will definitely check out your story.

Secondly, may I ask exactly what AT Proper Hiking Police Department badge number you possess? Because, I have some news for you.......


IT AIN'T YOUR HIKE.

Really, who are you to force others to enjoy nature the way you think is proper?

And, finally, since you hate your volunteer job so much, because of all these entitlement hikers, why don't you just stop? Or, why don't you pop in to any trail town and announce that you are giving free shuttle rides. That goes over so bigly in towns where the locals depend on two or three months of shuttle fees to make it through the year that I am sure you will receive the warmest of welcomes....you do realize that by volunteering free shuttle rides you are taking money out of poor folks pockets, don't you?

NO Sir you are the one that is out of line. Tell me sir if the trail is not being over run, why is the ATC pushing hikers to register their start dates and also asking hikers to consider a flip-flop hike. Not over crowded? Baxter State Park just put out a letter complaining that the crowds are reaching the point that they may change the way you have to arrange how to climb that mountain. Tell me sir does that not cover enough of the trail to satisfy you that the trail is being over run. The best part is you don't have to be in Hot Springs to check it out. Just go the the ATC (http://appalachiantrail.org/) website and read all about it.

Secondly tell me sir, who made you judge, jury and executioner on deciding who can complain about the attitude of hikers. This person who hauls 30-50 hikers per day has a better hand on the pulse of hiker attitude than you sir. It appears to me that they said they are a volunteer driver, which tells me they are either helping a friend or a relative who owns a motel, hotel or hostel that provides shuttles. Yes hikers that use shuttles should pay for the ride. They aren't poor. They are on a six month vacation. If they don't have the money to pay for a shuttle, then stick you thumb out or or walk your lazy butt into town. This person is not forcing others to enjoy nature the way they think is proper. No sir, they merely stating a facts based on their observations. I know when I catch a shuttle or someone picks me up I always have 10 bucks in my pocket to offer them even if I paid for the ride. Why because I never saw a hearse with a trailer hitch or luggage rack. You can't take it with you. And the your last sentence about shuttles is just so stupid I won't even comment.

Tell me sir, how many times do we have to tell you that today's hikers are a different breed than us old timers. We were taught respect. We say thank you when some does something for us, we open doors for ladies and people behind us. You can tell these newbies from the rest simply by them having ear buds in their ears. They will leave something they really need at home or cut down on the food they carry so they can have a 3 pound brick in their pack that will charge their phone. Us old timers may not have the latest and greatest IPhone but we do have something that will help us out in a jam that these entitled hikers don't: We have Common Sense. We carry a real map that is bigger than 3" x 6" image. We carry a compass and we know how to use it. I even carry a map tool that I can plot my own GPS coordinates. We carry survival kits and eblankets in case we or another hiker gets into a bad situation. We took the time to learn some basic first aid so we can do more than phone for help, that is if there is a signal. We took the time to learn about where we are going to hike and we pack accordingly. Yes we carry cell phones but we only use them to call home for a check in and to call for help. No time for games or music. The rest of the time it is shut off and stuck in my shirt pocket.

Let me tell you sir, my hike is not yours, my feelings aren't yours, my opinions aren't yours, so where do you get off telling the rest of us that we are doing it wrong or even when presented with overwhelming evidence of over crowding you continue to say show me where. Why should we? Are you going to wave your magic wand and fix it? I have covered a lot of trail miles in my life so don't try to tell me anything until you have walked in my shoes. Good day sir.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

You know how the Ignore function works, right?

[colorado_rob]

You know how the Ignore function works, right?IT is tempting to use the "ignore" on this annoyingly heated thread, but somehow I find it too fascinating.... basically, I just think this is in the "much ado about nothing" category. I also wonder if those that are so adamantly opposed to trail magic/hiker feeds are actually (current) hikers????? Perhaps this is a perfect example of "cyber hikers" and being disconnected from actual hiking. Having hiked maybe 20,000 miles in the last 50 years (probably more, just a guess), I don't remember a single instance where trail magic went unappreciated by both myself and witnessing other hiker's glee when happening upon it, with of course the AT (which I have done in its entirety) having the most frequent magic/feeds.

All that being said, I do tend to agree that anywhere near the summit of Max Patch, or even the parking lot below the summit is a poor place to have a feed, as has already been said, a road crossing near MP would be nice, I tend towards having a feed/magic site north of Max Patch rather than south, but perhaps that crossing just south of MP would be OK.

Some CO trail veterans and ourselves were just talking a couple days ago about having a feed for CO trail folks this summer, and the silliness on this thread does not deter us a bit in our enthusiasm for doing so. We, as most do, would keep it modest and completely clean.

It goes without saying, these are just my own opinions.

[ScareBear]

SNIPPED A BUNCH OF STUFF

Thanks for the morning guffaw. Dude, how old do you think I am? I will hazard a guess that I bagged my first 14'er before you backpacked your first mile! (you are 2 years older than me, old man!) I don't know how many miles you think I have, but it is a lot. Not as many as CR, but a lot. Anyway, enough with the cred check...

HYOH. Think your own thoughts. But, when you post your own thoughts to a public forum, be prepared to have your thoughts debated.

I thought I was a crusty old curmudgeon....thanks for taking that mantle off my shoulders!

And, CR, I gotta kinda disagree with ya on Max Patch. I just don't see it like many folks do. It's a horrible scar on the mountain line. You can see the rape of the mountain for miles and miles. CR, you know what it looks like out west when a mining company chops the top off a mountain. Same thing here, to me. So, since the mountain has already been defiled and the USFS saw fit to open it with a road and parking lot, it is fair use for anything. To me, a hiker feed or trail magic is the second least offensive use of the Patch. Of course, everyone's MMV.

And, yes, if you are at a road crossing the AT and are offering free shuttle rides to town, you are taking money out of the pockets of people who can ill afford to lose the business. If you can't see that....

[colorado_rob]

And, CR, I gotta kinda disagree with ya on Max Patch. I just don't see it like many folks do. It's a horrible scar on the mountain line. You can see the rape of the mountain for miles and miles. CR, you know what it looks like out west when a mining company chops the top off a mountain. Same thing here, to me. So, since the mountain has already been defiled and the USFS saw fit to open it with a road and parking lot, it is fair use for anything. To me, a hiker feed or trail magic is the second least offensive use of the Patch. Of course, everyone's MMV. No worries on disagreeing, seems like we agree on most things.... and the parking lot really would be OK I suppose, but I just seem to like the magic at road crossings. I sure don't see Max Patch as a "scar"... we were hiking through there again just 3-4 weeks ago, I enjoyed it as much as the first time in 2013. Couple pics of "the scar":

[Mags]

All that being said, I do tend to agree that anywhere near the summit of Max Patch, or even the parking lot below the summit is a poor place to have a feed, as has already been said, a road crossing near MP would be nice, I tend towards having a feed/magic site north of Max Patch rather than south, but perhaps that crossing just south of MP would be OK.



A nice compromise, I think.

[Starchild]

Can I count on you to donate to my thru hike? GoFundMe info wil lbe sent via PM.

I would suggest posting your link publically instead and let people decide for themselves how they wish to give back to the trail. There are certainly many who wish to help out thru hikers, during my thru just by maintaining a email list and emailing people from the trail who requested it I got many offers of support, including stays, care packages, meeting up with them, cards and money, I also get overwhelming support in the form of replies, they loved my emails, waited for them and wanted to see what is next, I also got many prayers for my travels.

However posting your link on Whiteblaze typically gets under people's skin here, and one can expect some very negative comments, ignore them and HYOH, not theirs.

[colorado_rob]

A nice compromise, I think.YOUR compromise, sorry, I should have given you credit from your post at the start of this, er, interesting thread....

[Mags]

YOUR compromise, sorry, I should have given you credit from your post at the start of this, er, interesting thread....

Not looking for crdedit, honest. :) Just a way to smooth the waters. I just agree with what you wrote, too.

[Ankle Bone]

nothing magical about it

Amen!

This is just a hiker feed/handout.

[colorado_rob]

Amen!

This is just a hiker feed/handout.So, is there some movement among the WB community to take away the age-old term "trail magic" ????????? It's just a phrase, and can be as modest as a jug of water along a dry stretch of trail. Despite the Extreme Wisdom of LW, I think even He will not affect the use of the classic moniker: "Trail Magic".

[BuckeyeBill]

To CR: Trail magic is fine with me. I have been a participant in a few. It concerns me when it is announced a week in advance and another is scheduled for the following weekend. Trail Magic is suppose to be a surprise to the hikers. To be honest I think this TM event is great and I wish the organizer a lot of luck. It is a very unselfish move on his part.

To SB: Let's smoke a peace pipe. I started out in 1974 with a rim to rim to rim of the Grand Canyon at the age of 14. I've have a little over 14,000 miles. I lost a lot of time when I was a law enforcement officer. I have been working for myself for a while now and can take off for extended periods of time, which makes me happy and relaxed. I have about three years worth of work sitting at the shop, and I hope by then I can take the summer off for an AT thru hike.

It just kind of got to me when you jumped on solace for what he said. If my figures are correct, he shuttled over 2,200 hikers each year. I feel that is a good cross section of hikers and pretty much qualifies him to discuss the attitude of hikers. I also have seen a drop in the area of work ethic. I finally was able hired some crusty old geezers like myself and we get along just fine.

I agree that there was damaged done to Max Patch that could be reversed simply by replanting, but I think the NPS likes it as it is. Again I extend to you an olive branch and say good hiking to you.

[Ankle Bone]

So, is there some movement among the WB community to take away the age-old term "trail magic" ????????? It's just a phrase, and can be as modest as a jug of water along a dry stretch of trail. Despite the Extreme Wisdom of LW, I think even He will not affect the use of the classic moniker: "Trail Magic".

It's not hard to distinguish between the original definition of trail magic and the new hiker feed/handout craze.

Totally different things.

Trail Magic will live on; but it's not a guy at a road crossing with pizza and Pepsi

[TNhiker]

Trail Magic will live on; but it's not a guy at a road crossing with pizza and Pepsi



except for the trail magic that is some random person who happened to pick up a pizza and a pepsi and was on their way home and saw a hiker and offered it up.....

thats trail magic....

but, i know----you're implying the pre planned organized pizza parties.....

[colorado_rob]

It's not hard to distinguish between the original definition of trail magic and the new hiker feed/handout craze.

Totally different things.

Trail Magic will live on; but it's not a guy at a road crossing with pizza and PepsiI guess it's just semantics, but I see your point, the feed thing has really gotten kinda crazy. Still, when I'm hiking along a big hike and I cross a road and there's food of any sort, it all feels kinda magical to me! Especially pizza and a frosty beverage. Magical!

I'm still at a loss on the alleged "damage" at Max Patch... a few years ago some clown did donuts or something on the grassy areas, but it looks OK to me these days, and I was just there.

[Sarcasm the elf]

So, is there some movement among the WB community to take away the age-old term "trail magic" ????????? It's just a phrase, and can be as modest as a jug of water along a dry stretch of trail. Despite the Extreme Wisdom of LW, I think even He will not affect the use of the classic moniker: "Trail Magic".

It is quite clear that the meaning of the term has changed significantly over time. Twenty years ago Trail Magic was used to describe those acts of chance and serendipity that seem to happen so often on the trail when you need them most. I have no problem with planned hiker feeds, but they certainly don't fit in that category.

Now that said, I don't have much if a horse in this race. It's clear that the majority of hikers now use the term to described feeds and preplanned activities and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I only wish that someone would finally go ahead and hire a magician as entertainment for their feed, I think that would settle the issue once and for all. :rolleyes:

[MtDoraDave]

Cool!
I was there last Tuesday, doing a section from Davenport Gap to Devils fork gap, and "Two of a Kind" (thruhikers from 2010) were doing trail magic in the parking area.

They had a sign that said trail magic up the hill - but lots of hikers stopped on the first part of the hill for their lunch and didn't see the sign until after they had eaten lunch... so if you have a sign, put it a little further sobo on the patch to get more hikers!

[Last Call]

Whenever I come upon a hiker feed I get really bummed if they only have beer, Coke and water....why don't they at least offer Pepsi sometimes over Coca-Cola. And please, no more stale Wal-mart pastries past their expiration date.