View Full Version : Some thoughts and wonderings about Redd Mage and others
johnspenn
04-14-2017, 07:55
First let me say: RM is living the dream, and getting it done. We actually passed him on the trail while we were sectioning in GA SOBO. He was huffing and puffing up a hill and my wife and I made way, and he passed on, so we didn't stop to talk or anything. Being the judgmental a-hole that I am, I turned to my wife and said "I don't think that guy's going to make it very far."
First I'm not, have never and will probably never thru a long trail so I need to just STHU and respect those that are at least attempting to. I know this, and I'm working on it.
RM is a likeable guy, and really I'm not much different than him. He was a gamer who decided to thru the AT and started hiking. I wasn't a gamer but the nothingness I did do mainly involved sitting my fat @$$ on the couch for hours at a time, so not much difference really. I'm glad he's out there grinding it out.
Here's where I have questions. He started really slow/low miles and was definitely not in great hiking shape. He's relatively young (32 I think?). He has improved his mileage. He has a great attitude, usually. Here are some things about him that confuse me.
1. He still struggles A LOT on climbs, and still dreads them, although he's closing in on three months of hiking the trail. Now I know from personal experience that steep and/or long climbs aren't easy, but after some conditioning they aren't as hard. Shouldn't he be having an easier time with the climbs by now?
2. His pace really hasn't improved very much if at all, still pretty much a plodding 2 mph. Shouldn't he be able to walk faster by now?
3. Although his miles per day has increased, he really struggles with doing 20+ a day and seems to be much more comfortable doing around 15 or so. Shouldn't he be able to handle doing some longer mileage days by now?
4. Shelters. He complains pretty frequently about people snoring/playing music/coming in late to the shelters and waking him up or keeping him awake. Doesn't he understand by now that if you want to stay in shelters, all that is part of the package?
I know all of that sounds critical. Maybe it is. Especially number 4, which seems painfully obvious to me.
But 1-3, do y'all think it's a mental thing for him at this point or what? Why haven't his 'trail legs" kicked in and his performance increased to be able to do more and faster miles?
I'm really curious about that, because even at 50 I know that my performance has gotten markedly better with conditioning. I WISH I had started taking this stuff more seriously at the tender young age of 32!
At any rate, looking forward to some of the thoughts by more of those who have actually "been there and done that". Thanks guys.
I defiantly and wholeheartedly agree with your observation that you need to just STHU and respect others. With that what must be said, said, then I wish you nothing but good luck working on that and may you always find exactly what you need where and when you need it.
1-3, everyone is different and hence we can't say how much improvement there "should" be. He has improved but his base conditioning I would imagine is what is affecting the speed in which he adapts. The one thing that I have noticed is that he is slowly learning his limits and once he figures that out, he will be in a better position in the long run. I understand that he enjoys his tramily but we are seeing the downside to a tramily, if you aren't able to match pace/distance, people have a tendency to push themselves to far too fast.
If anything, I would guess his diet is playing a factor in his ability to recover and adapt as well. I have seldom seen any fruits or vegetables in his resupply pics.
As to #4, understanding it and complaining about it are two different things.
Reddmage is doing a great job and is hiking his own hike. I wish him the best and appreciate him sharing the journey with us.
johnspenn
04-14-2017, 09:12
1-3, everyone is different and hence we can't say how much improvement there "should" be. He has improved but his base conditioning I would imagine is what is affecting the speed in which he adapts. The one thing that I have noticed is that he is slowly learning his limits and once he figures that out, he will be in a better position in the long run. I understand that he enjoys his tramily but we are seeing the downside to a tramily, if you aren't able to match pace/distance, people have a tendency to push themselves to far too fast.
If anything, I would guess his diet is playing a factor in his ability to recover and adapt as well. I have seldom seen any fruits or vegetables in his resupply pics.
As to #4, understanding it and complaining about it are two different things.
I actually just caught up on the last few vids. Looks like you're spot on about his diet, and many of his recent struggles may simply have been a caloric intake issue. He really loaded up on his last resupply. As far as nutrition, maybe not so much.
Also his tramily- I was surprised he stayed with Trey (sp?) as long as he did, really, because Trey was obviously able hike farther and faster. Not sure but I think this is his second thru? At any rate, seems like now that Trey found a more ability-compatible tramily to hike with RM won't be seeing him any more. It seems like that's what bothered RM the most at his lowest point- not being able to keep up with those other guys. Looks like he's over that for the most part and has his head back in the game, hopefully.
Busky2- Did you find my questions and commentary disrespectful (beyond the introductory paragraph)? If so in what way? Thanks for the well wishes, and I hope the same for you.
What's the point? Concern for him?
I mean, sure, #4 especially ought to be a known by now, but that's kinda par for the course for a lot of people I know - like people who are always complaining about something that by now they should know it is what it is. In fact, I'm sure there is stuff I complain about that would count me in that group. And I don't ever think 20+m days are easy. I've heard a lot of finished thru hikers say that if they could do one thing differently, it would be to cut out the 20+mile days, and I don't think that's just about lengthening the thru hike.
I think pace has a lot to do with rhythm and that may be something that just doesn't change much for some folks. And as for hills, I suck at that, too. I'm fast otherwise, but I end up around 2mph in Ga because of all the uphill.
So, again, what's the point and maybe we can answer your real question?
illabelle
04-14-2017, 09:25
Hey, we met that guy! We did a section Mar 31-Apr 2 north of Pearisburg and shared a shelter with him and a few others. Can't comment on his pace or miles .... He was the first one to hit the trail the next morning. Best of luck to him!
I was witness to him recording an april fools message about being totally beat and getting off the trail. Hahaha!
It is Trey's second attempt at a thru, I can't remember if he was injured last year or what the cause was. He explained it on on of Mr. Jimmy's videos.
I was surprised that the group stayed together as long as they did as well. I did mention to RM in a comment that he may need to accept the fact that he may need to break from the group eventually. I was surprised that he hasn't seemed to stay with Quinn as it seemed they both moved at the same pace.
Hikingjim
04-14-2017, 09:38
The body and its individual history and strength is complex. Saying how one person's body SHOULD respond or should be feeling is not of much benefit.
Would some others pick up the pace faster? yes. Relevance? not much
saltysack
04-14-2017, 09:42
DILIGAF.......who is this guy?
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johnspenn
04-14-2017, 09:44
So, again, what's the point and maybe we can answer your real question?
I'm not trying to make a point at all. I'm just trying to understand what happens on a thru, and some of the factors that differ from person to person. It seems like some people's abilities significantly improve during a thru and some people struggle the whole way, and some struggle to the point they leave the trail. Conversely some improve pretty drastically physically but leave the trail for other reasons (like Kiwi).
Specifically with RM, I hope he makes it, and I think he will. Hopefully his latest rough patch is behind him, he has his resupply/food issues under control, and he will continue to hike on, and more importantly continue to enjoy his hike.
No hidden agenda here, just some curiosity about it all.
Didn't mean hidden agenda, just what is the main question, which seems to be just curiosity - which I totally get. Your "wonderings" are fine, but impossible to answer with any clarity except to say everyone is different. I do think most hikers would improve their pace, etc. We just don't ever know what goes into point zero for a hiker, and its probably incorrect to say that a long hike necessarily improves the hiker physically along the way.
colorado_rob
04-14-2017, 09:51
DILIGAF.......who is this guy?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I was going to ask the same thing.... are folks supposed to know who the heck "reddmage" is????? In any case, I, too, miss the point of the OP.
MamaBear
04-14-2017, 09:55
I will answer #1-3 from my perspective. Also realize that I live and hike in New Hampshire, so my views might be a bit skewed, but I have hiked the AT and plenty of other miles.
1. Hill climbing is difficult. There are a few natural mountain goats out there than can really put the hammer down on the hills. I am totally in awe and respect that. For me, personally, it takes a lot of training, and even then it is hard to maintain a "fast" pace uphill. I tend to even out the average on the downhill. Well, as long as I don't destroy my knees. It is not the age, it is the mileage. ;)
2. 2mph is not a bad pace for the AT, and by White Mountain standards is actually pretty good! The trail doesn't always allow for faster travel - the footing is terrible is some places, like let's say some of PA and much of NH and ME. Switchbacks are not common in some parts either, so combining rough tread with steep hills and 2mph is not bad. I realize that for those from the west, 2mph is "slow", as the average pace there is higher.
3. While the group I hiked the AT with in 2015 put in plenty of 20 mile days, that was not the norm. Comfortably, we could do 16-20, sometimes more, but doing 20's and 20+ for weeks on end, no. Maybe the 20 year olds can do that, but not me. The AT is not like the PCT or other trails where 20's are a "shorter" day in some sections.
Anyway, big props to Red Mage for getting out there and just putting one foot in front of the other. I do not know what he is dealing with as a whole - mentally, physically, emotionally, gear, diet, natural physical ability, etc., but any one of those things can really make hiking more difficult. Anyone who has done any backpacking or long distance hiking knows those things can vary day by day and combined can take their toll. The AT is a very mental trail and just getting up every day and consistently putting in the miles is how it is done.
Keep going RM!
Stone1984
04-14-2017, 10:56
Reddmage is killing it. He has done far more than most. If you were to bet on who would go further between kiwi and reddmage I am sure you would choose the guy that is currently sitting at home. I think just like kiwi reddmage will complete his journey. I am just thankful we get to tag along
capehiker
04-14-2017, 12:55
I hope RM makes it. Thru hiking is very hard and the trail doesn't care what physical shape you are in. I will say as someone who YouTube'd my failed thru hike last year (and I'm filming my current thru hike attempt now), those sitting on the couch have a much more grandiose fantasy of what is happening on the trail. We often show only the good stuff with a smattering of the hard stuff thrown in.
As to the topic of miles per hour, 2 miles per hour is linear and does not account for ascending and descending mountains so his MPH is actually more than 2.
Shelters: its on him to deal with them. It only takes about 2 stays at shelters to realize what you get with it. My group has been mostly stealth camping or staying at designated campsites but not at shelters. Partly because we caught Norovirus 20 miles into the start and partly because using campsites generally only appeals to those serious about backpacking and thus a lot of the B.S. is eliminated.
Lastly- some people get overly invested in someone's thru hike that they choose to share on YouTube. Just enjoy and don't get too into the weeds. He's either going to make it or not.
I hiked from Springer to Waynesboro...just about 850 miles. I took 4 months doing it. I started out of shape but I lost 50 pounds. It took me about 3 weeks to get my trail legs. I remember leaving the Fontana Hilton at around 8am and arriving at Mollie's Ridge shelter around 1pm...that's 12 miles of UP. I stopped there for the day. I did that often. It took me 4 days to get to the first shelter out of Erwin. I did a few 20 mile days. I didn't think it was much fun to walk from dawn until dusk. I did that the first couple weeks because I was so out of shape it took me all day to make it to the next shelter. But once I could do 12 miles before noon I would put in my miles and stop for the day. I almost never did more than 12 miles a day. With my zero days factored in my average over my total time on the trail was only about 8 miles a day. I had fun doing that pace...any faster and it became tedious work, just hiking to get the miles in. Having fun was more important to me than making it the whole way, and when I got tired of hiking I quit. I knew when I was done and I got on a bus home. Just because you can do 20 miles doesn't mean you want to or have to.
OP - Please refer to the first sentence of your second paragraph, and follow your own advice. That's the nicest way I can say that.
For the rest: Reddmage is attempting a thru - you can check him our on youtube. As of yesterday, day 68 for him, he's still on the trail.
LongBlaze2019
04-14-2017, 15:30
Everyone hikes at different paces and styles. The guy is doing well. He just needs to start hiking his own hike and quit chasing his friends. His diet needs to improve some but I think he is doing great.
I hope I can average 2mph in my first 850 miles when I hit the AT in 2019 lol
As for the shelters.
I don't think he is a big fan of sleeping in his tent for whatever reason. I suggested earplugs. He will figure it out eventually.
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johnspenn
04-14-2017, 15:35
OP - Please refer to the first sentence of your second paragraph, and follow your own advice. That's the nicest way I can say that.
For the rest: Reddmage is attempting a thru - you can check him our on youtube. As of yesterday, day 68 for him, he's still on the trail.
Other than my remark to my wife when I first saw RM on the trail, which I freely admitted to and regretted nearly as soon as I said it, please point out for me where I am being disrespectful. I really don't see where asking the questions I asked fall under that category.
For those who took my post in the way it was meant and offered thoughtful feedback, thank you.
El Gallo
04-14-2017, 18:28
When I saw RM's gear video I thought this guy does not have a chance of finishing. I think he had four or five knives with him. He seems to have adapted and has a great attitude. A thru hike is not a race so nailing 20 miles a day appears to be not super important to him if he has time with his pace to make to Kahtadin before Oct. With every step he takes his chances of finishing grow.
What's the big deal with 20 mile days? That's hardly a requirement for finishing the trail. Ditto with 2 miles per hour. A steady 15 miles per day will get the job done. Over a ten hours day that's only 1.5 mph.
Well in the spirit of your last post.
We are all different and have different capabilities. For some bodies and some mental makeups doing a thru hike is incredibly hard. For others it is no big deal.
I am in my 60's and have had some really severe injuries which impact what I can do now compared to what I could do when I was a youngster. That being said I can hike circles around most 20 somethings. I have always had what seems to be built in endurance beyond what the average person has. I however would not be your first choice for a stand-in in the UFC most likely. High endurance, fast, lean, high strength to weight ratio. But not much for top end power. I also never quit training.
If your hiker guy has never in his life reached a state of top conditioning and has been something of a fluffy couch potato then you are expecting too much too soon most likely. If he has only been going 3 months he has lots of upside potential. Top athletes train hard for many years to reach their peak. He just needs time.
Re the diet nonsense. Fruits and vegetables are not going to make any difference at all. Sure it is nice to have some dried fruit in the pack, but that does not power you. For those who want to really max what food to eat when doing max effort high mileage you need to eat like the site below instructs. Note Dr. Braaten is a PhD nutritionist and a long distance hiker. I follow that set of guidelines while hiking and it works like a champ. There is no reason you can't eat how you want to but trying to tell others that you need to eat vegan, vegetarian, lots of fruits and veggies and so on is wrong. It is a choice you make make but there is no scientific basis to it. Maximum physical effort in long duration endurance activities requires massive amounts of fat, less carbs and about the same protein intake. You do not want to do that at home of course, but while you are hiking pour the fat in the tank.
http://thru-hiker.com/articles/pack_light_eat_right.php
Lone Wolf
04-14-2017, 19:57
never heard of him. he doin' somethin' special?
never heard of him. he doin' somethin' special?
He's just walking
Lone Wolf
04-14-2017, 20:04
He's just walking
cool. dime-a-dozen walker
Other than my remark to my wife when I first saw RM on the trail, which I freely admitted to and regretted nearly as soon as I said it, please point out for me where I am being disrespectful. I really don't see where asking the questions I asked fall under that category.
Fine, I'll bite. Had you posed your questions as "is it typical to go so slow?" or "how far do most hikers go in an average day?", I would not have been rubbed the wrong way. Instead, each of your "questions" were finding fault with his abilities: "Shouldn't he be having an easier time with the climbs by now?", "Shouldn't he be able to walk faster by now?", "Shouldn't he be able to handle doing some longer mileage days by now?"
All this while, in your own words, sitting on your fat @$$ on the couch. What part of HYOH don't you understand? I'm pretty darn sure he's doing the best he can, and he's been out there for 2 months... that deserves kudos, not questions about his speed.
johnspenn
04-14-2017, 20:32
Fine, I'll bite. Had you posed your questions as "is it typical to go so slow?" or "how far do most hikers go in an average day?", I would not have been rubbed the wrong way. Instead, each of your "questions" were finding fault with his abilities: "Shouldn't he be having an easier time with the climbs by now?", "Shouldn't he be able to walk faster by now?", "Shouldn't he be able to handle doing some longer mileage days by now?"
All this while, in your own words, sitting on your fat @$$ on the couch. What part of HYOH don't you understand? I'm pretty darn sure he's doing the best he can, and he's been out there for 2 months... that deserves kudos, not questions about his speed.
Fair enough. But the reason I'm asking these questions is because RM himself has stated he wants to do these things. That's what prompted my curiosity, and why I wondered that after the amount of time he's been on trail he is still struggling as much as he is.
I'm not the one finding fault with his abilities, he is. I'm just trying to figure out what some of the reasons might be why.
Again, I will state that I hope RM summits Katahdin, and I think he will. I have nothing but respect for his effort thus far.
LongBlaze2019
04-14-2017, 21:15
Why even bring him up at all? He's out working on a thru hike and your on WB talking about him..... I'd say what he is doing is working and like has been said several times, each person is different.
Why don't you ask him on his YouTube channel?
I find this thread kinda pointless
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Lone Wolf
04-14-2017, 21:20
why torture yourself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFbGWCBbqAU
In the mornings when I'm making lunches for the kids and myself and trying to keep the house in order, it's been really nice to watch reddmage and Early Riser 71. They are bringing the the trail to those of us that can't get out now. I wish them all of the best. They are both great guys like most hikers on the AT that I have met.
saltysack
04-14-2017, 22:20
I'm still scratching my head with this post....what the $$$$ is the point.....who gives 2 ships how this guy hikes his hike?
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AfterParty
04-16-2017, 21:30
It is reality TV at its finest
What's wrong with 2 mph? That's my typical hiking speed.
johnspenn
04-17-2017, 09:49
What's wrong with 2 mph? That's my typical hiking speed.
Absolutely nothing is wrong with 2 mph if you're satisfied with that pace. Nor is anything wrong with 1 mph in the same circumstance. But if someone wants to hike faster, and for some reason can not, then it becomes a problem, if only in their mind.
As to others who are asking about the point of the post and etc, I have tried to explain several times already. My apologies to anyone who still doesn't understand, I'm sure it's my lack of clear communication. Peace and happy trails!
Gambit McCrae
04-17-2017, 10:54
Ol Redd is going exactly the speed he needs to be going. Wether it is 10 miles a day or 20. He is complaining about what he wants to complain about just the right amount as well. It is his hike, his videos and his choice to share. I am really rooting for Redd because if he makes it, even if he doesn't make it, has broken a sterotype for successful hikers.
I just got back from a 40 mile, 29 hour hike in central VA and met some nobos that hiked with Redd in GA. They were saying how he was always the first up, but last to come in to camp. I wish him the best.
LongBlaze2019
04-17-2017, 11:28
Absolutely nothing is wrong with 2 mph if you're satisfied with that pace. Nor is anything wrong with 1 mph in the same circumstance. But if someone wants to hike faster, and for some reason can not, then it becomes a problem, if only in their mind.
As to others who are asking about the point of the post and etc, I have tried to explain several times already. My apologies to anyone who still doesn't understand, I'm sure it's my lack of clear communication. Peace and happy trails!
I think everyone else's point is "who gives a s**t"
Everyone hikes their own pace...
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Absolutely nothing is wrong with 2 mph if you're satisfied with that pace. Nor is anything wrong with 1 mph in the same circumstance. But if someone wants to hike faster, and for some reason can not, then it becomes a problem, if only in their mind.
As to others who are asking about the point of the post and etc, I have tried to explain several times already. My apologies to anyone who still doesn't understand, I'm sure it's my lack of clear communication. Peace and happy trails!
Well then that's the problem, wanting to hike faster instead of what comes naturally.
My point is 2 mph is a perfectly acceptable pace to complete a thru. After watching some Redd Mage's videos he reminds me a lot of myself during my thru. In fact he's closely matching my pace since I was in SNP on day 72.
Sure the youngsters can hike 3+ mph and do 25+ mile days after not getting on the trail until noon, but I couldn't. I was 53 when I thrued and I intentionally stayed under 20 miles a day. I saw lot's of over use injuries from people doing long distances, especially early on and I avoided that for the most part.
If I could give RM some advice I'd say just hike as far each day as you want, don't try to keep up with the group, enjoy each day, remember there's hundreds of people sitting behind a desk or working in some factory wishing they could be in your place.
After watching his gear video he needs to dump half the stuff he's carrying. I bet I could pull 10 pounds out of his pack easily. Who in the world needs 4 knives?!
Thanks for bringing his videos to my attention, I'll be watching.
johnspenn
04-17-2017, 12:10
I think everyone else's point is "who gives a s**t"
You obviously do despite several claims to the contrary, because A. you keep reading the replies to the post and B. you keep commenting about how you don't care.
So, to answer your question, at least one person.
One forgotten part of HYOH is moving at your own pace. Which can be hard to do if it's more than just you. It has to be a compatible group and even then, compromise is what makes it work.
I could never really keep up with any groups so ended up doing most of the trail alone -- at least the walking part. That works better for me. I'm usually happy to partake of the shelter/campsite scene if there is one.
If I see the same fellow hikers two or three nights in a row, great. But I don't make that my goal.
(OTOH... it can be fun to part of a "working" partnership or group on the trail. They do exist.)