Expectations Vs Reality of a Hike

[Gambit McCrae]

I thought about elaborating on the title but think I'll leave it at that and see where people run with it.

I think in todays trail culture, people sit and dream of their hike - romanticizing the concept of hiking the trail but when reality sets in while feet are on the trail, plans go out the window, and pitch perfect turns into murphy's law.

How do you bring expectations and reality/outcome of a hike closer together?

I think the simple answer is "don't shoot for the stars."
keep your plans modest and mileage goals realistic.
Some things like weather and impact of other hikers are out of your hands.
Know your capabilities
Keep your plans limited but be prepared.
Roll with the punches.

[BuckeyeBill]

Reality hits some hikers when they discover that though they planned to not use hostels/motels and only sleep on the trail, it is not quite possible.
When, no matter the past weather history, it will be colder and wetter when you are out on the trail. Be prepared.
No matter how hard you hike to make it to town, the Post Office will close before you can get there.
Even with new equipment, you can have an equipment failure and or breakdown.
No matter how well you try to take care of your feet, you probably will get a blister.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Long distance / thru-hike expectations? Generally overly optimistic, especially with novice hikers. The reality is far different than the romantic notion. The dream is one of sunshine and cool dry days camping at day's end by a panoramic vista sunset - that gives way to cold rain or stifling heat and humidity, muddy trails, fog, crowded shelters and camps, wet clothes, starchy meals, etc. There's a higher degree of suckiness than most anticipate to be embraced to enjoy the days where it's more like the dream than the reality.

Shorter section hikes? Generally much more grounded with the advantages being much less pressure to finish / make miles, inclement weather can often be avoided by scheduling, often better food can be enjoyed, /shortening / modifying / bailing out if necessary becomes an easier option, etc. - and there's the big plus of usually a lot less "investment" both emotionally and financially in the hike.

[PGH1NC]

I walked in the rain last Sat. on purpose. Kinda nice. Maybe a little realism.
Could practice rain walking today too.

[dudeijuststarted]

I live in a city and hike to get away from people. So, if I go hiking and there are a bunch of people, I will stop hiking in that place and go somewhere else. I will always do this and never be apologetic about it. Also, the other day I forgot my stove fuel so I hiked 7 miles back to my car so I didn't have to camp with dry/cold food. Then I got a hotel with points that I had and enjoyed some beers in Dahlonega. Nothing went as planned, but everything went perfectly.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I live in a city and hike to get away from people. So, if I go hiking and there are a bunch of people, I will stop hiking in that place and go somewhere else. I will always do this and never be apologetic about it. Also, the other day I forgot my stove fuel so I hiked 7 miles back to my car so I didn't have to camp with dry/cold food. Then I got a hotel with points that I had and enjoyed some beers in Dahlonega. Nothing went as planned, but everything went perfectly.Not criticizing, but couldn't you have made a small cooking fire?

[LazyLightning]

Is it possible to hike the AT without hitchhiking or do some resupply points require you need to hitch a ride into town?

[Bronk]

More than a few that attempt a thruhike have never backpacked before. That scene in Wild where Reese Witherspoon is loading up her pack and putting it on in her hotel room for the first time the morning she is leaving to begin her hike is more truth than fiction for many, many people.

If that is your case, or even if you are just an inexperienced hiker then your best bet is to just set a goal of making forward progress. Don't quit. Make it to the next town. Resupply. Keep going. Within 3 or 4 weeks you should be in good enough shape physically to complete the hike...question after that is do you really want to.

[Starchild]

I actually found the opposite, The realities was much greater than my already high expectations. Murphy, when he did visit, also supplied a better result than what I expected. The saying the trail will provide was very evident in my thru as one who was giving his trail name by an angel on the AT.

How I 'made' that happen, though it was not me, was my approach to the trail, me as a student, me as a child, the trail as my teacher and instructor. I listened, I obeyed and I was greatly rewarded and greatly loved and appreciated. Though that was not bringing the expectations closer to reality, but thankful they were apart in the way they were.

[Bronk]

I walked in the rain last Sat. on purpose. Kinda nice. Maybe a little realism.
Could practice rain walking today too.Its funny because some of my fondest memories of my long distance AT hike are of the times when it rained all day and all night. When I read people posting about cancelling a trip because of the weather I think that they are just missing out on an experience. There's more to life than sunny days. You have to learn to live when its rainy, snowy, cold and the wind is blowing.

[HooKooDooKu]

Surprised at how boring and tedious a long-distance hike can become. I've seen more than just one passing reference that completing a long distance hike is more of a mental challenge than a physical challenge.

Similar to those planning for the AT, I planned for over a year to hike the JMT. I wanted to see that beautiful scenery as well as do something that would get me beyond the two-night hiking trips I had limited myself to up to that point. I would say that setting up camp on Day 7 is when the tedium of "set up camp, break camp, hike all day, repeat" started to set in. After about another week, even the scenery (as beautiful as it was) started to get a bit monotonous as I would say to myself "same scene, different mountain". On Day 14, I distinctly recall saying to myself "oh yea, this is why I came out here to do this hike" as I walked among the beautiful Rae Lakes. But once Rae Lakes were behind me, I was pretty much ready for the hike to be over. I finished up the JMT within the next week... and while travelling home, I was pretty much saying to myself "I don't have a desire to do that again".

However, now that I've been home for quite some time, and memory of the tedium and monotony have become distant memory... I now I want to go back and take some of my family with me.

[Spirit Walker]

Is it possible to hike the AT without hitchhiking or do some resupply points require you need to hitch a ride into town?

It depends on how far you are willing to walk to resupply, or whether you are willing to carry extra food in order to avoid a long hitch. Every year there are a few people who decide they will not get into a car, no matter what, until they reach Katahdin. Some do manage to keep that vow; most decide it isn't worth the extra hassle. Few hikers are willing to walk 5 or 10 miles into town, and up north it can be a fairly long distance to get to a town from the trail. (Stratton 5, Rangeley 9, Andover 8, Gorham 3.6, Manchester Center 5.5, etc.)

Regarding expectations: perhaps it's not as bad now, since so many journals are available, but I think a lot of hikers think the LD trails are all wilderness and that they will be lost in the back of beyond. The number of dayhikers, road crossings, restaurants and hostels, etc. can be a bit of a shock and a huge disappointment to some.

[BuckeyeBill]

Some people, especially inexperienced hikers, over plan their trail trips. Nothing is better for planning than getting out on weekends and familiarizing yourself with your equipment. No matter what anyone says about what you are carrying, field testing it yourself will tell you if something will work for you. True, there is great advise given here, but it comes down to what you think and feel about equipment. Once you figure out what works for you, then it's time to see if you can start shedding ounces and pounds. I went from a tent to a hammock setup and now experience the best sleep I ever had on the trail. Is this setup good for you? I don't know. you have to try it and find out. You can rent a setup or go to a hang in your area (https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/forumdisplay.php/44-Hangouts-Campouts-and-Trip-Planning) and see/tryout various ways hammocks work.

Also remember your bank roll for your hike has to be reasonable. This is one of the no give requirements. I seen a lot of people that had to get off the trail due to lack of funds. You don't have to have 10's of thousands of dollars to hike with. But a couple of grand is not going to work, even if you have drop boxes sent to you. Washing yourself in a stream or pond or lake just don't cut it. You need to clean the stink off of you and out of your clothes unless you like seeing people move away from you when you sit down. Go to town shower your self, wash your clothes and enjoy a good steak. That's reality.

[MuddyWaters]

If anyone has even a couple of multiday hike experience in strenuous terrain, their expectations would not be overly romanticized.

All the more reason to get a little experience before get too carried away by dreaming.

[DuneElliot]

If anyone has even a couple of multiday hike experience in strenuous terrain, their expectations would not be overly romanticized.

All the more reason to get a little experience before get too carried away by dreaming.

My first multi-day hike showed me how much I was capable of, but also that I shouldn't push myself too hard. I ended up having to quit a day early because I over-did it and was in a huge amount of pain.

[Slo-go'en]

I keep planning like I can still hike like I was 30 and the reality is at twice that age, I can't.

[Puddlefish]

I was a dayhiker with no idea if I'd like the camping/resupply part of the trip. I learned a whole lot from websites like WB, that helped me prepare. There was nothing boring, or mentally challenging at all to my hike. I loved every second of it, rain, snow and green tunnels. Physically, one stumble turned into weeks with a torn ligament that eventually drove me off the trail.

A year later, the knee is healed. Once I can arrange for someone to care for my dog, I can't wait to get back and complete the trail. Was hoping to get on the trail again in June, but now it's looking like it might be August... so maybe I can get a month and more of AT hiking in this year!

[Slo-go'en]

Shorter section hikes? Generally much more grounded with the advantages being much less pressure to finish / make miles, inclement weather can often be avoided by scheduling, often better food can be enjoyed, /shortening / modifying / bailing out if necessary becomes an easier option, etc. - and there's the big plus of usually a lot less "investment" both emotionally and financially in the hike.

Actually, I think the short section hikers are under more pressure to finish due to a limited and non-flexible time frame. Often this is done during a one week vacation window and planned well in advance, so working around the weather is not an option. They may over estimate their ability and under estimate the difficulty. They also tend to carry every piece of gear they ever bought, making for a heavy pack. I meet several groups like this attempting to do the GA section which had to give up and go home early. The cost of aborting a hike early can be substantial and if they had to travel far to get to the trail, the financial investment could have been significant.

I ran into this problem myself last week. I had not expected to be done in by tree pollen allergies (which is a new development for me) and getting home from Hiawassee was much more expensive then had I made it to my destination of Marion, VA instead. The money it cost me to get home probably would have gotten me through NC.

[Puddlefish]

Actually, I think the short section hikers are under more pressure to finish due to a limited and non-flexible time frame. Often this is done during a one week vacation window and planned well in advance, so working around the weather is not an option. They may over estimate their ability and under estimate the difficulty. They also tend to carry every piece of gear they ever bought, making for a heavy pack. I meet several groups like this attempting to do the GA section which had to give up and go home early. The cost of aborting a hike early can be substantial and if they had to travel far to get to the trail, the financial investment could have been significant.
I ran into this problem myself last week. I had not expected to be done in by tree pollen allergies (which is a new development for me) and getting home from Hiawassee was much more expensive then had I made it to my destination of Marion, VA instead. The money it cost me to get home probably would have gotten me through NC.

I developed allergies later in life. It's annoying. Ask your doctor, but a single Cetirizine pill each day helps me out a great deal. None of the potential Alzheimers side effects that some of the brand name allergy medicines (anticholinergic) have either.

[TexasBob]

Surprised at how boring and tedious a long-distance hike can become. ...........................However, now that I've been home for quite some time, and memory of the tedium and monotony have become distant memory... I now I want to go back and take some of my family with me.

I am glad I am not the only one who has had these same feelings.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Surprised at how boring and tedious a long-distance hike can become. I've seen more than just one passing reference that completing a long distance hike is more of a mental challenge than a physical challenge.
I am glad I am not the only one who has had these same feelings.
I found out at a young age (20's) that thru-hiking wasn't for me. I got bored after 6 weeks on the trail and quit. But such behavior wasn't limited only to the AT. I probably would have been diagnosed with adult ADD if such a thing existed in the medical vernacular at the time. I can handle a few weeks of hiking at a time, but then my interest wanes. There are too many other things that I enjoy doing as well, like golf, tennis, etc. I still toy with the idea of an AT thru, but realistically, my heart isn't in it. Maybe a thru of a shorter trail like the LT or Ouachita is in my future.

[Dogwood]

Realities of a hike are more easily accepted and adjusted to if one radically gets accustomed to not being accustomed.

Before the hike sleep outside in a sleeping bag in a tent or better yet cowboy camp, take a multi night trek preferably in foul weather although I'd say what most think of as foul weather is just life embracing weather, walk in the rain to the grocery store, turn off the heat or AC in the house, cook your at home dinner by eating what you anticipate on trail in your trail cookware on your hiking stove outside, practice periods of abstaining from electronics/driving/fast food drive thrus, etc.

[Dogwood]

We regularly overcome what we initially sense as boring or tedious. An excellent counter point to having these feelings is gratitude, laughter, hope, altruistic behavior, knowing that hiking isn't just about hiking, and being mindful of thought life knowing what empowers us and what meditation limits us. It helps seeking out environments and people that demonstrate these qualities.

[Deadeye]

I keep planning like I can still hike like I was 30 and the reality is at twice that age, I can't.

Same here. I seriously wonder if at 65+ when I will have the time to do a thru-hike, will I still have the ability to hike an average 15 miles per day for 5 months to do a thru. A month at a time in the right seasons over2-4 years is looking like a really good alternative for a geezer. It seems like it would be much easier on an older body, and maybe easier on personal relationships. I know many hikers of all ages start to suffer a variety of ailments after 5-6 months on the trail. Maybe it would be better to leave the trail still wanting to hike, rather than to drag it out just wanting to be done with it. I'm hoping to do a thru, but preparing for alternatives if my body says otherwise.

Youth is wasted on the young!

[jj dont play]

Maybe I just had the right attitude but I expected things to be a lot more difficult then they were. I'm not saying it was easy but...
I only had about 2 days of heavy rain all day, other was just off/on and no big deal. Only 2 days of snow, only a handful of cold nights. Never thought the bugs were bad or anything to complain about other then one night. Only had to ford a total of one stream that was mid shin deep, etc. Never saw a rattle snake, or any poisonous snake for that matter. Never had a bad encounter with a bear and even saw 20+. Was worried about finishing in time and ending up finish in almost half the time I thought it would take. Those are just a few concerns I had before hand that ended up being irrelevant for my hike.
Most of that just came down to being lucky with timing.
It sucked some times but tough times make for the best memories.


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[LIhikers]

As someone doing short sections of the AT I start with a plan and then adjust depending on what reality brings me.
Having a plan doesn't mean that I have expectations.

[Hikingjim]

Thru hikers often just seem to not realize how hard it is going to be. I talked to a couple people this week who found out that solo walking in the woods isn't really their thing, but they press on! "can't wait to get to katahdin" isn't a great mindset when you're 40% done a hike, imo

For section hiking, reality for me is that I get pretty bored on some section hikes on the AT
I did a section in shenandoah this past week. Knew it wouldn't be my fav, but it had better weather than other sections and isn't inundated with that many thru-hikers

Thought that section was pretty uninteresting. Easy trail, no proper creeks or rivers, way too many people, the road. So I added a few side trails, hammered out 70 miles over 3 nights and hit the Shenandoah river to kayak back to my car. Part of my "open agenda" philosophy, with no shuttle booked. My reality is that I want to see good country and get out there, and I don't care about AT miles completed, although I enjoy good portions of the AT.

[Heliotrope]

Some people, especially inexperienced hikers, over plan their trail trips. Nothing is better for planning than getting out on weekends and familiarizing yourself with your equipment. No matter what anyone says about what you are carrying, field testing it yourself will tell you if something will work for you. True, there is great advise given here, but it comes down to what you think and feel about equipment. Once you figure out what works for you, then it's time to see if you can start shedding ounces and pounds. I went from a tent to a hammock setup and now experience the best sleep I ever had on the trail. Is this setup good for you? I don't know. you have to try it and find out. You can rent a setup or go to a hang in your area (https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/forumdisplay.php/44-Hangouts-Campouts-and-Trip-Planning) and see/tryout various ways hammocks work.

Also remember your bank roll for your hike has to be reasonable. This is one of the no give requirements. I seen a lot of people that had to get off the trail due to lack of funds. You don't have to have 10's of thousands of dollars to hike with. But a couple of grand is not going to work, even if you have drop boxes sent to you. Washing yourself in a stream or pond or lake just don't cut it. You need to clean the stink off of you and out of your clothes unless you like seeing people move away from you when you sit down. Go to town shower your self, wash your clothes and enjoy a good steak. That's reality.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4YbMqcQK0k4



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[Furlough]

plans go out the window, and pitch perfect turns into murphy's law.
Yep. It is wise to plan, practice the plan, execute the plan and be willing and flexible enough to adjust the he!! out of the plan when the sh!+ hits the fan. From my days as a military planner : No great plan ever survives first contact with the enemy, and in all plans the enemy gets a vote -- so plan accordingly.

I would also say that experience wins out over dreaming and romanticism every time. Don't just dream it get out and do it. Get comfortable with yourself, your gear, the "process" of backpacking and dealing with the good, the bad and the un-expected.

Furlough

[evyck da fleet]

If you plan or allow for the unexpected, reality and your expectations will be a lot closer.

I like the hikers who start out from Springer saying their going as far as they can implying Katahdin as opposed to the ones that specifically state their goal. The first group is expecting the unexpected, the second group seems to have more people who will make a mountain out of a molehill.

[Malto]

I have zero sympathy for an aspiring thru hiker that claims the hike doesn't meet their expectation. That is simply solved by hiking increasing longer distances and working up to a thru hike rather than meeting a dude in a bar that made the hike sound so cool and going from couch to the AT. You see the mismatch in expectations vs. reality in language, specifically the use of TOO. The trail is too steep, rocky, cold, hot, rainy etc. the trail is not too anything. It is the expectations that are too unrealistic. Getting out and hiking solves that.

[jgillam]

What is it they say? Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. There will undoubtedly be days on any LD hike, that will be that punch in the face. People better be ready for that and be prepared to come up with a new plan very quickly.

[BuckeyeBill]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4YbMqcQK0k4



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Don't we all live in our own matrix?

[BuckeyeBill]

https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2148000#post2148000)

plans go out the window, and pitch perfect turns into Murphy's law.

We all know that Murphy lives on the trail we happen to be on.:D

[BuckeyeBill]

What is it they say? Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. There will undoubtedly be days on any LD hike, that will be that punch in the face. People better be ready for that and be prepared to come up with a new plan very quickly.

I use the Muhammad Ali Ropa-Dope. Problem is the trail floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee.

[Heliotrope]

Don't we all live in our own matrix?

Now you're getting too deep ;)


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[Dogwood]

I have zero sympathy for an aspiring thru hiker that claims the hike doesn't meet their expectation. That is simply solved by hiking increasing longer distances and working up to a thru hike rather than meeting a dude in a bar that made the hike sound so cool and going from couch to the AT. You see the mismatch in expectations vs. reality in language, specifically the use of TOO. The trail is too steep, rocky, cold, hot, rainy etc. the trail is not too anything. It is the expectations that are too unrealistic. Getting out and hiking solves that.
What do you do when feeling most uncomfortable, angry, scared, OR HAVING INITIAL THOUGHTS OF BOREDOM? Can you do this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tILSkVdUdzA
Can you put on a smile and say "I never did mind about the little things?" Your life may depend on it!

Ever hear someone say I'm bored while being grateful, joyful, creative, engaged in laughter, in a high energy state, passionate, contributing to others(looking outside of oneself with consideration of others)...?

Backpacking or the trail voiced as boring is not about something outside oneself ...LIFE isn't boring...romance isn't boring...lovemaking isn't boring... dates aren't boring...marriage and relationships aren't boring...going to work doesn't have to be boring...traveling isn't boring....vacations aren't boring...commuting back and forth isn't boring...It's you, it's us, who is boring. It's an internalized mental state.

There are no lack of things to do on the trail or when backpacking. Easy enough if one was only backpacking but when we recognize a hike or backpacking trip is not just about hiking the options are endless. It's traveling. Embrace it. It's a journey. Be emotionally and mentally engaged. Be present. Be in the moment.

It's possibly a lack of creativity, gratitude, motivation, joy, peace, generosity, commitment, or something else - like misguided expectations - that is often the underlying issue that is being masked by saying "this is boring" or feeling bored. Want to be interested find an endless amount of things to be interested about. Be mindful of one's state of being including emotional and mental states. Be joyous, be appreciative, be hopeful, be intrigued. When we're finding things to be grateful about it opens the door to joy, laughter, creativity, accepting knowledge, open to wisdom, raising the energy levels of not only oneself but others, being positive even about the challenges and people and regs and ridge runners rather than complaining. That's what comedians do. Gratitude is infectious and overcomes - is greater than - boredom!

***Having gratitude - appreciation - has been shown in studies to correlate with being less materialistic and envious and irritated as well as being more agreeable and happy. Think that could be an asset in trail life?

Be like Gene Wilder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6049YuWHy-8

[IslandPete]

More than a few that attempt a thruhike have never backpacked before. That scene in Wild where Reese Witherspoon is loading up her pack and putting it on in her hotel room for the first time the morning she is leaving to begin her hike is more truth than fiction for many, many people.
That was totally us! I read and read, and ordered a bunch of stuff online. We came back to the states and I unwrapped it all and stuffed it in a cardboard box, then measured the box. Went to REI and measured pack interiors till I had 2 that would hold that much and we were ready to go! I loaded the packs, and the next morning when we hoisted them on was literally the first time we'd had them on our backs and tried adjusting things! We're about 230 miles in and amazingly things are going great! No breakdowns of gear or crew. So for us, so far anyway, the reality has met the expectation, and hopefully that continues!
Pete, Linda, and Scout...

[BuckeyeBill]

To Island Pete'

Consider you and yours lucky, but since it is working out for you good luck and may your trail be always level, dry and beautiful.

[-Rush-]

When I start feeling trail romance in the air, I always make sure I take a hard shot of reality by studying my post trip notes. I recently had the idea of doing a 3 week hike, but heeding my own advice, I decided it would be better to plan three one week trips in different places. History is doomed to repeat itself without the post trip notebook! I think 5-7 days is the perfect amount of getaway time for me, and an occasional two-week trip if I've got friends and/or family involved.

[gsingjane]

From many years of taking people out for their first experience of the trail, I can tell you that the #1 comment I get is: "it was harder than I thought it would be."

Many people work out, or exercise, and everybody walks. But backpacking is a particular sort of physical challenge. Most other athletic activities do not adequately prepare a person for the physical demands of backpacking. People are very surprised when, even if they are an avid runner or biker or tennis player or swimmer, that backpacking is still so hard.

[kayak karl]

Don't over plan. Just walk and enjoy it. Any expectation will ruin any event.

[Deadeye]

My wife says the secret to a happy marriage is low expectations... guess that applies to the trail, too.

[rafe]

Never finished a thru hike so I don't have the answer. Eight weeks or so was the most I ever did in one go. If all my section hikes had gone perfectly, there wouldn't have been so many of them.

I had to learn to appreciate long distance hiking. I'm still learning. I have a long way to go. In the real world, the simplicity of trail life calls like a siren. Then when I get to the trail I realize... maybe this is just a bit too simple. I'm a city (suburban) boy mostly so I really don't know one tree from another or one plant from another. After a while it's all just trees and rocks and hills. I find myself getting really excited about a fence, or a stile, or a barn off in the distance. Links to humanity. Or just thinking about... you know, food. Or how delicious a frosty beer or Coke or lemonade might taste.

When I first began hiking, it was the views that attracted me. That was the big payoff, and made everything else worth while. I always carried a nice camera. On the AT, the views are sometimes few and far between. And lord knows how many I missed because of the weather. Lesson learned: it has to be more than just the views.

[Wyoming]

I keep planning like I can still hike like I was 30 and the reality is at twice that age, I can't.

I actually hike much further per day in my 60's than I did at even 20. Back then a 20 mile day was a big deal as the packs weighed a good 45-50 lbs. I can easily do 30 mile days now (one 35 mile day last year) and I often am in the high teens by lunch time (did 21 1/2 miles by lunch time 2 weeks ago - with a 30lb pack). But the gear and shoes are just so much lighter.

But the big thing is I train all the time now and when I was young I just took off when the urge cam upon me. Being in good shape when you start is the No 1 thing to make for a most enjoyable and fruitful experience hiking experience.

[Deacon]

I actually hike much further per day in my 60's than I did at even 20. Back then a 20 mile day was a big deal as the packs weighed a good 45-50 lbs. I can easily do 30 mile days now (one 35 mile day last year) and I often am in the high teens by lunch time (did 21 1/2 miles by lunch time 2 weeks ago - with a 30lb pack). But the gear and shoes are just so much lighter.

But the big thing is I train all the time now and when I was young I just took off when the urge cam upon me. Being in good shape when you start is the No 1 thing to make for a most enjoyable and fruitful experience hiking experience.

+1

Folks, don't assume you can't hike as well when you get older. I'm still doing 20 plus miles per day, for all the reasons Wyoming stated.

We'll see how long this lasts! [emoji3]

[BuckeyeBill]

When a lot of us were younger, we did many things when the urge hit us.