When do you need maps?

[AllDownhillFromHere]

From the various pictures and videos and blogs all over the place, the trail bed looks pretty well defined, if not actually marked. Are maps necessary in the southern sections? I'm thinking they're very necessary up in the mountains, when you're dead-reckoning on top of 20' of snow-covered trail, but do you need them in the desert?

[Venchka]

If your phone and charging system are dead bang reliable, then the Guthook app should get you through the desert.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Malto]

Generally when there isn't snow you don't need maps to hike the PCT until you do. In those situations maps, paper or electronic will work just fine. In the snow it is far different. You need to have an overview on where you are heading, where is Forester Pass for example. While that seems trivial for those that hiked in normal snow years I can assure you this is common issue, I saw it first hand. All areas of the snow are not equal. While everyone talks about navigation in the high Sierra that is not the hardest area, at least from my experience. Further north of Tahoe there are heavily wooded areas with no clear landmarks visible. These areas are when it is handy to have a GPS, phone or otherwise. But I would not want to rely on a GPS for constant navigation because you will burn through batteries. The combination of maps and GPS, with common waypoints between the two IMHO makes the most sense. The paper maps can be used in more of an overview mode and the GPS can help with tactical navigation. What do I mean by this? Looking at a topo map of the next few miles will enable you to plot a course. It is NOT the most efficient to try following the trail. You can pick a waypoint from the map and head directly to that point whether it goes over streams, Lakes etc. Many of the features that the trails meander around will be completely covered and a non issue. EIther a GPS or compass would be used to tactical hit the waypoint.

I think those that recommend a electronic only approach are frankly irresponsible. Most don't realize the enormous different between the last the five years and a high snow year.

[Wildmtnchild]

I always bring a map in new/unknown areas. Although with the Gaia GPS app I've never needed them. But electronics fail, or get drop kicked off a cliff. So maps and compass I bring.
Also I think having a compass around your neck for quick bearing checks in iffy terrain is easier than pulling out the GPS or phone every 15 minutes.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

Thanks guys. I always carry a real compass, but my experiences here in the East are that you basically never need one, or even maps. The trails are so hammered down that you can literally feel them in the dark, and even the "trailless" peaks are simply unmaintained, there's always a herd-path everywhere. I think if I miss a maildrop of maps in the desert I won't sweat it, but given the comments above I'll definitely make sure I get them for the northern parts. I'm going to have someone print them as I go along, so I've got flexibility.

[gwschenk]

You need maps when you put foot to trail.

[Dogwood]

What Malto said. There's so much discussion about navigation on many ft of snow through the Sierra often incorrectly perceived, especially by east coasters not familiar with the actual extent of the Sierra range, as only or basically the Sequoia and Yosemite NP areas. Another miss-perception is assuming because the avg elevation and the PCT's highest pt is at Forrester Pass in this area that's only where snow can be encountered on a PCT NOBO. This is not the case! LOL

With the oodles of long site lines, identifiable peaks, tarns, streams, rivers, signed side trails, other PCTers having beaten a track in the snow already, known elevation, etc when above or near treeline through those limited perceived Sierra areas I find the navigation by map and compass to be easier and more assuring than being in open forest without these helps north of Y NP. Since I first did a PCT NOBO after having already done two JMT thrus I went through the Sierra on my first PCT NOBO being one of the first 5 well before Postholer's Sierra Entry date in an avg snowfall yr with no need for maps. That was about 25 -30 miles total on deep snow only in this area. I think I used my compass and looked at a map once from Mt W to Immigrant Wilderness/Stanislaus NF. North of there at the front of the pack on many ft of snow I personally had a tougher time navigating by map and compass fortunately meeting up with another NOBOer having GPS whom I tagged along with. Without GPS, and sometimes even with it, under heavy snow pack you're actually often not following the PCT. As Malto said, you're picking way pts and hopefully following the best hiking route between them not necessarily following the PCT. This was done also on San Jacinto to some extent and up the obliterated switchbacks of Baden Powell.

In southern Cali there are areas where ATVers, 4 WDs, pedestrian and equestrian, and roaming stock(cattle) single tracks(you're herd path label was accurate but not always as you meant it, LOL) crisscross the PCT. Most are signed or somewhat obvious but a few aren't as much resulting in a few PCTers momentarily getting off track. The PCTA tries keeping abreast of these confusing areas but new tracks, fires obscuring the PCT, etc are being created virtually yearly. It's up to you if you carry maps for SoCal. GPS should work also staying or getting back on track IF you get connection. In Socal I would not always label the PCT tread as so hammered down. It's sand like a beach in places which is rare to experience on east coast trails. It's easier if you're not at the very front of the pack able to see what others have done. I think Halfmile adds some notes at the most confusing intersections so if he's putting them on the maps that tells you he's gotten PCTer feedback regarding confusions.

"Generally when there isn't snow you don't need maps to hike the PCT until you do." That about sums it up.

[Dogwood]

When one asks "do I need maps?", it depends on how you also hike. I like seeing what's around me to consider not just staying on the beaten trail in an all or nothing march to the trails so called terminus in the fastest possible scenario of sticking on the straight and narrow. I always add other experiences like bagging a peak, checking out waterfalls, seeing a canyon, checking out hot springs, a cave, etc. OMG the high quality life experiences I would have missed if I always LD hiked with a get er XYZ trail dun go go go stick to the straight and narrow approach. I'm looking to do my hike not someone else's.

[rafe]

You need maps when you're lost. But then it's too late.

[lonehiker]

There was a junction out of Wrightwood that was a bit confusing. Don't remember there being a sign there. A quick look at my map confirmed what I thought to be the correct trail. Without the map I might have gone off on wrong trail for a bit. An app would probably work as well but I only bring a single charge battery along so I limit my phone usage. I can pull my maps out any number of times a day and not have to worry about power.

I'm old school and am of the opinion that you should always carry hard copy maps.

[Wyoming]

I have been a map compass nerd most of my life.

And then I did a hike with a ULer who only carried a smart phone with a Guthook app. I was always getting out my maps and doing it the old fashioned way and he was always way ahead of me. I put the maps away and just let him do it and watched for the rest of the hike.

Got home and went and bought my first smart phone and downloaded the Guthook app for my next hike. I do carry a compass (can't help myself). But I am not carrying maps any more.

Last year on the PCT I would say well over 50% of the hikers were not carrying maps at all. And a good many who do can't read them anyway so they don't do them much good.

Beside the Guthook app I have downloaded into the phone a full set of topos and I do have my separate compass. I am very anal about taking care of the phone - the phone is in one of the ruggedized shookproof/waterproof cases they sell for them, and that goes in 2 layers of waterproof cuben fiber pouches if there is any issue about getting wet and I have ziplock bags to add to this for stream crossings if needed. I also carry a spare charging battery which will charge the phone 2 times. Since I do not use the phone to call anyone it almost never leaves airplane mode. So I have never gotten less than 5 days on the initial charge and I have 2 spare recharges in the pack.

Could I break the phone? Sure but things can happen to maps and compasses also. I am pretty comfortable with the new situation and don't intend to carry maps on the PCT this year either. But ymmv and you should do what you are comfortable with and have sufficient experience to back it up.

[Wooobie]

You are walking on a nature sidewalk for 2600 miles. Dload a app and keep it pushing

[gwschenk]

There was an interesting commnet in the last Communicator. A fellow was using maps on the trail. Talking to some phone users, they asked him where he had camped. He said just after that big climb out of Spanish Needle Creek. They gave him a confused look until he said he camped at mile 626.

Maps kept him in contact with his surroundings.

[Desertdave]

You need maps when you put foot to trail.
Exactly!
I taught map and compass for search and rescue. The GPS is the BACK UP system. Your map and compass is your main method of navigation. Take the time to learn how to use a topo.....the amount of information on them is tremendous. To put it bluntly, don't be a statistic.

[Hikingjim]

Exactly!
I taught map and compass for search and rescue. The GPS is the BACK UP system. Your map and compass is your main method of navigation. Take the time to learn how to use a topo.....the amount of information on them is tremendous. To put it bluntly, don't be a statistic.

Phone GPS can easily be your primary. They have all the topo maps and gps/compass...
My map & compass come along as backup, and I like to look at maps in camp anyway, so it gets used enough

[Hikingjim]

There was an interesting commnet in the last Communicator. A fellow was using maps on the trail. Talking to some phone users, they asked him where he had camped. He said just after that big climb out of Spanish Needle Creek. They gave him a confused look until he said he camped at mile 626.
Maps kept him in contact with his surroundings.

This is one reason I like guthook and/or backcountry navigator and not mile marker only type guides. Can better situate what I'm looking at in the area.
Not saying a paper map isn't needed, but there are a lot of cool tools on the phone where you can see a lot more than where the next water source is coming up. Some people just choose to put their head down and calculate how many miles until X

[garlic08]

I'm not sure why this has turned into a paper vs electronic discussion (though it's a good one). That wasn't the original question.

I think everyone agrees that hiking the PCT requires some kind of maps (and the ability to use them).

I know some experienced and careful hikers who didn't get their maps in a resupply at Tuolomne Meadows, decided to wing it, and ended up in a town south of Bridgeport on the highway with thumbs out.

Dogwood raises a good point about the motorized tracks in the desert. I don't remember cattle track issues on the PCT, but it's a major concern on the AZT, somewhat less on the CDT.

[Miner]

As for the original post, on my thru-hike I used my maps regularly from day 1. A few times when I wasn't paying attention or misinterpreted something, I got off trail. I was able to figure out I was off the PCT and get back on using my maps as they helped me see not only the PCT but some of the trails around it.

As for the other discussion, I was doing a section hike 3 years ago. I was talking to some thru's about a water source coming up using the name that we all called it in 2009 when I thru-hiked. They just looked at me with a blank face. Today's hikers only know things by mile point. I don't think its just the smartphone issue, but rather how lacking in things on Halfmile's maps which most people use today. Halfmile's maps weren't available back when I thru-hiked and people still referred to the wilderness press data book.

As for relying solely on a phone, on a weekend backpacking trip 2 months ago. On the first day, I dropped my phone into a cascade and over it went into a waist deep pool. Needless to say, I have a new phone today and I'm glad I had my printed map. Never had a map fail in all my years of hiking solo.

[Desertdave]

I understand the desire to use ones phone and or GPS. I own them and have used them for a variety of reasons...but when its time to shave weight....and I have paper, its pretty easy to leave the electronics behind.

[Malto]

There was an interesting commnet in the last Communicator. A fellow was using maps on the trail. Talking to some phone users, they asked him where he had camped. He said just after that big climb out of Spanish Needle Creek. They gave him a confused look until he said he camped at mile 626.

Maps kept him in contact with his surroundings.
I am guess you hiked between the years 2012 and 2016. There are a bunch of hikers in the snow right now that would disagree with your sidewalk comment as would 2005, 2005, 2010 and 2011 hikers.

[gwschenk]

I am guess you hiked between the years 2012 and 2016. There are a bunch of hikers in the snow right now that would disagree with your sidewalk comment as would 2005, 2005, 2010 and 2011 hikers.

I've been hiking on the PCT every year since 1984. The PCT is not my goal, it's a way to reach other goals.

Not sure what you mean by the sidewalk comment, though. It seems to me in big snow years maps are far more useful than KML files. I am not anti-Halfmile's track. It's a very useful tool.

[Colter]

A couple of years before I hiked the PCT I met a PCT veteran who was passing along advice. One thing he told me is that he didn't really need maps.

I hiked the PCT in 2010 and I can tell you that I really, really needed maps. Often. There were vast stretches of trail buried under snow, sometimes with no tracks to follow, or no way of knowing if any human tracks were on the right path.

There were also some poorly marked or unmarked forks in the trail. Two of us missed a major turn and it was mighty nice to have maps to figure out our error and to get back on track.

I would carry some form of maps for the entire PCT.

[jefals]

I'm not the GREATEST with a topo map, but isn't it true that with a topo map, you have to be referring to it fairly constantly? Like maybe every few minutes? Otherwise, you see a peak and try to find it on the map - and then you're not really sure if it's "this peak or that peak"?
To me, that's the main advantage of GPS. Just check it whenever you want and it gives your exact location. Yes, it can break or run out of juice. you can even lose it if you're not careful.
Safest bet for all situations is to learn navigation skills..
You won't need em. Till you do. ?

[srvand02]

I'm not the GREATEST with a topo map, but isn't it true that with a topo map, you have to be referring to it fairly constantly? Like maybe every few minutes? Otherwise, you see a peak and try to find it on the map - and then you're not really sure if it's "this peak or that peak"?


It just takes practice to read topos and after looking at them day after day you'll be able to read the landscape by looking at that map almost better than looking around. On the CDT I had both 11x17 maps as well as my Garmin eTrex 20. There were definitely areas I was glad to have my GPS (usually foggy landscapes or in the desert) but in mountainous areas it was nice to hike for an hour, pull out my map and instantly be able to tell where I was at (approx), when the next water source might or might not be, the elevation layout, and what geological forms I should see within the next hour. GPS is nice, but you have to turn it on, make sure it syncs your location, zoom in on your location (to see proper elevation) and then scroll around to see the layout, which, personally, would take a lot longer.

It's all preference. (Except while on the AT; I didnt take any maps, just AWOLs guide, and only got turned around once on Moxie Bald in a blanket of thickest fog Ive ever been in and because someone built a carin down what I suspected to be a side poop trail.)

[Malto]

I've been hiking on the PCT every year since 1984. The PCT is not my goal, it's a way to reach other goals.

Not sure what you mean by the sidewalk comment, though. It seems to me in big snow years maps are far more useful than KML files. I am not anti-Halfmile's track. It's a very useful tool.
Oops, I quotes the wrong post. It was directly at this one by Woobie

" You are walking on a nature sidewalk for 2600 miles. Dload a app and keep it pushing"

[Fredt4]

I use my smartphone and ditched my paper maps to save weight. My 2011 AT hike was easily done this way. On one bit my phone battery was dead but my memory was sufficient. This year on the PCT I found the smartphone was useful for several sections in locating the trail after I lost the trail, particularly at stream crossing though I believe I would have found the trail eventually but it was nice to have the map and GPS. Paper maps seem antiquated and should be a backup rather than a primary use if carried at all.

[Another Kevin]

"When do you need maps?"

My personal answer: Always.

If I'm hiking without a trail map, it's generally because I'm drawing the trail map. (And even then, I'm hiking with some sort of map, no matter how bad.)

[earlyriser26]

I always carry maps. They may have saved my life a couple of years ago. Hiking the AT in winter in very deep snow I found the only possible exit strategy.

[Suzzz]

ALWAYS !!!

A map weights about 1 ounce and so does a compass (mine anyway). So I see no reason not to bring either. Yes, trails are typically well blazed and you can usually follow the track without too many problems. But what if? Yeah, I know, don't carry your fears but at 2 ounces it's a fear I'm willing to carry.

In the event that you leave the trail and get desoriented, a map can prevent an inconvenience from becoming a serious problem. Even if you're not very proficient at reading maps and using a compass, you can still use them to find bearing points and possibly set a course and follow it. You may not be going in the right direction but at least you won't be going around in circles.

My two cents... I always carry a map and compass.

[gwschenk]

You need maps once you realize your trapped by your reliance on a phone loaded with guthook and halfmile apps. The AT, the PCT, they are ghetto trails now. Lose your apps. Learn to read a map and get out into the mountains and hear their good tidings.