What to do if snake bitten? [Archive]

FlyPaper

05-23-2017, 10:12

This past week I came upon a rattlesnake that was beside the trail and was probably very close to being bitten. Fortunately, no bite. Just watched the snake take an aggressive posture, then eventually slither off (The snake slithered off. I walked.)

I was about four miles from the road and had one other person with me.

Obviously we'd have called 911 and followed directions. Could have easily happened in a place with no phone coverage.

What expertise is there on white blaze about rattlesnake bites?

For example, would I have likely been able to walk 4 miles (including a few hills)? What distance would it be reasonable to expect to be able to walk before coming up with another plan?

Would this be something that would warrant a helicopter (including probably a $10,000+ medical bill)?

What if I were even more remote? Would it be feasible to just set up a tent and plan on being sick in the woods a few days?

Obviously the question applies to copperheads as well as rattlesnakes. I just happens that this was a rattlesnake.

Old Hiker

05-23-2017, 10:18

Simple Bing search:

http://www.flotography.com/what-to-do-when-a-snake-bites-you-on-a-remote-trail/

http://www.webmd.com/first-aid/snakebite-treatment

Turtle-2013

05-23-2017, 10:22

First, a couple common mis-conceptions about rattlesnakes. 1. They can't strike a long distance, only about half the length of their body. 2. Not all bites inject venom. 3. Unlike in the old westerns, you don't try to "suck out" the venom, you simply try to slow it down. SO... remaining calm, and in one place, and using cool compress (not ice which you aren't likely to have anyway), and SENDNG or CALLING for help is the best general treatment. HOWEVER, you should assume that you did receive a dose of venom and seek out help was quickly as possible. Also with a little practice and paying attention you can generally "smell" copperheads before you are close enough to be bitten ... the smell is best described as sour cucumber.

devoidapop

05-23-2017, 11:13

Always clean animal bite wounds with sterile pads from your med kit. Do not flush with water. Infections from bite wounds can be far more dangerous than a single dose of venom.

Francis Sawyer

05-23-2017, 11:56

DO NOT seek medical advice from random people on forums!

Slo-go'en

05-23-2017, 12:25

Don't get bitten in the first place. Most bites occur when people try to pick up the snake or otherwise seriously annoy it.

If you see a snake sunning it's self in the middle of the trail, just walk over or around it - around the tail end of course. Chances are it will just stay where it is.

Tipi Walter

05-23-2017, 13:05

As I always say, Keep you eyeballs open and Your butt cheeks clenched.

Point is, study the trail as you walk and the ground at your feet. Be careful around blowdowns as rattlers sometimes like to hang out on top of blowdown trunks. Scope the area where you're gonna sit for a rest break.

Keep your ears open for buzzing and don't wear music headphones. Never kill a pit viper in a wilderness or national forest area. They are protected.

I was backpacking up the Nutbuster trail last summer (Upper Slickrock Creek #42 trail) and prepared to cross over this hemlock blowdown across the trail. Looked to my left and saw Jimmy as pictured sunning himself and enjoying the day. We talked and he shared some information on the trail ahead.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpack-2015-Trips-161/17-Days-In-Rattlerville/i-zgjJDwS/0/09ca1bfc/XL/Trip%20165%20323-XL.jpg

illabelle

05-23-2017, 13:28

...

I was backpacking up the Nutbuster trail last summer (Upper Slickrock Creek #42 trail) and prepared to cross over this hemlock blowdown across the trail. Looked to my left and saw Jimmy as pictured sunning himself and enjoying the day. We talked and he shared some information on the trail ahead.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpack-2015-Trips-161/17-Days-In-Rattlerville/i-zgjJDwS/0/09ca1bfc/XL/Trip%20165%20323-XL.jpg

Tipi, I'm pretty sure the ATC has a rule that you can't name every snake Jimmy.

jefals

05-23-2017, 13:34

REI now has a snakebite suction gizmo, you can check out if you want to add a couple more ounces to your first aid kit..

FlyPaper

05-23-2017, 13:34

DO NOT seek medical advice from random people on forums!

If I am in the backwoods and have no cell service, the implication is that I also won't have access to WhiteBlaze.Net. So no worries that I'd seek medical advice from people on forums in such an emergency.

However, I am not personally going to become a medical professional nor do I often hike with medical professionals. But chances are, information I can glean from random people (at least those who volunteer to speak up) on WhiteBlaze will be as good or better than the random people (possibly no one) I'd likely be hiking with in a real emergency.

Thanks for the concern, but I'm still interested on what people here have to say.

Sarcasm the elf

05-23-2017, 13:45

REI now has a snakebite suction gizmo, you can check out if you want to add a couple more ounces to your first aid kit..
Those suction kits have been around for a while and most medical sources warn not to use them as they are ineffective at best and are likely to cause further injury.

devoidapop

05-23-2017, 13:47

What if I were even more remote? Would it be feasible to just set up a tent and plan on being sick in the woods a few days?

I think this question merits serious discussion. Which scenario is more dangerous if you cannot call for help? Hiking out on a really bad leg or sheltering until your conditions improve? I'd hate to find myself in that position, but it happens.

Francis Sawyer

05-23-2017, 13:48

If I am in the backwoods and have no cell service, the implication is that I also won't have access to WhiteBlaze.Net. So no worries that I'd seek medical advice from people on forums in such an emergency.

However, I am not personally going to become a medical professional nor do I often hike with medical professionals. But chances are, information I can glean from random people (at least those who volunteer to speak up) on WhiteBlaze will be as good or better than the random people (possibly no one) I'd likely be hiking with in a real emergency.

Thanks for the concern, but I'm still interested on what people here have to say.

In that case.... take a knife and cut a big "x" just at the wound site. Then suck out the poison. Rub on a bit of antiseptic and bobs your uncle.
If you find yourself snake bitten sans knife just run as fast as you can to the nearest help. The heat generated by your muscles will render the poison harmless.

The prior information is false. All celebrity voices were impersonations. All similarities to persons living or dead is coincidental. I do not approve the message

devoidapop

05-23-2017, 13:54

Rule #1 Don't take Francis Sawyer hiking in snake country. lol

jefals

05-23-2017, 14:10

well, please just consider this as thoughts of a wayward sole, and by no means is this accurate medical advice. But, I'm thinking, any activity (i.e. walking ), is probably going to keep your heart rate up, pumping that venom thru your body more swiftly. If it's a lethal dose, there's probably a 99% likelihood that you're not going to save yourself by walking anywhere.
Staying put, properly applied tourniquet, waiting for helicopter could be your best bet.
Re that REI suction thing; Sarcasm's probably right, about medical professionals recommending against it. But -- I think I'd actually check with a med. pro. before writing it off. . ?

FlyPaper

05-23-2017, 14:11

You're problem is not with me, it is with the other people providing answers.

e.g. One person responded "Keep your ears open for buzzing and don't wear music headphones."

Do you think I should ignore that advice because it came from a non-medical professional? This is something I'd not thought of before, and something a medical professional would unlikely think to tell me.

Aside from your sarcasm, I'm finding many useful responses. If you're not interested, don't read them.

In that case.... take a knife and cut a big "x" just at the wound site. Then suck out the poison. Rub on a bit of antiseptic and bobs your uncle.
If you find yourself snake bitten sans knife just run as fast as you can to the nearest help. The heat generated by your muscles will render the poison harmless.

The prior information is false. All celebrity voices were impersonations. All similarities to persons living or dead is coincidental. I do not approve the message

jefals

05-23-2017, 14:33

I think it's always prudent, whenever anyone asks these medical questions, out of an abundance of caution that we always advise that we are not experts (unless someone answering actually is), and that the PO should really seek professional advice. And maybe, that's where we should quit...Depending. Like, that advice to not wear headphones is good. But I advised a properly applied tourniquet. Maybe I shouldn't have. I mean, I think that's correct, but I'm no expert, and even tho I SAID I'm not an expert, what if somebody takes my advice, tries to apply a tourniquet and winds up losing their leg? So..., I guess the main thing -- GET MEDICAL ADVICE FROM PROFESSIONALS!
And ahead of time, preferably. If you find yourself out on the trail, and you want to know something medical, if its not an emergency, and if you have cell service, there's always WEBMD..

Tipi Walter

05-23-2017, 14:47

The main medical consensus, even when discussing what to do if bitten in a remote setting, is to walk out and get medical help. But heck, a "remote setting" means to me you cannot walk out and you can't get cell service. SOOOOO . . . . . Preventing a bite in the first place is of utmost importance.

Which translates into Hike Slow. Look at the Ground as you hike. Keep looking at reststops and in camp and around your tent. When in snake mode you're always "walking point" and you better go slow, stop, look and listen.

saltysack

05-23-2017, 14:50

Just don't use your tongue like this DA red neck!!!https://www.google.com/amp/wfla.com/2017/05/17/florida-man-suffers-snake-bite-on-tongue-in-critical-condition/amp/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

zelph

05-23-2017, 15:10

use snake proof gaiters

FlyPaper

05-23-2017, 15:21

While I don't generally disagree, I kind of assumed we'd all be beyond this disclaimer. It's kind of like watching the FBI piracy warning when watching a DVD. How much of my life do I have to waste seeing the same warning over and over? Yes it is possible someone on this thread can provide false information. For anyone who has not chimed in yet to contribute to this thread, feel free to omit such a disclaimer if you are worried about me. Unless you ARE a medical professional, I'm assuming you're not.

But as far as medical opinions go, I don't fully agree. I've lived in the third world, and although I have no medical training, I can assure you anyone who is generally well educated from the US has PLENTY of good medical knowledge. There are many cases in which we make decisions about ourselves and our kids without outside medical advice. Most of us occasionally give advice to other parents and the advice won't always be "call the doctor". And as far as snakebites go, there is no way I'm setting up an appointment with my primary care physician to discuss the hypothetical scenario of being bit by a snake in a remote location. If that ever happens, I'll call 911 and follow their directions. Since a small part of my life is spent in remote locations that may not have cell coverage, I'm interested enough in the topic to engage in a conversation online with others that might have the same concerns.

I can go to WebMD and I'm sure it will tell me to go to the doctor if bitten by a snake. I can google and probably find 100 other sites that would all tell me to go to the doctor. It gets harder to find information on how to proceed if that is not possible. Perhaps someone here can refer to cases where a snakebite victim walked 10 miles after being bitten. That would be good information to have even though it would be no guarantee I could do the same. Perhaps someone can refer to information that indicates I'd unlikely be able to walk more than 2 miles. That would be good to know ahead of time.

If I don't have cell coverage, I will make decisions as best I can based on all that I have learned up until that time and all the specifics of the situation. One of the first pieces of advice for snake bites is to remain calm. It would help me to remain calm if I know I'll likely be able to walk the X miles necessary to the nearest road. If nothing else, information I get from this forum may support my efforts to remain calm.

I think it's always prudent, whenever anyone asks these medical questions, out of an abundance of caution that we always advise that we are not experts (unless someone answering actually is), and that the PO should really seek professional advice. And maybe, that's where we should quit...Depending. Like, that advice to not wear headphones is good. But I advised a properly applied tourniquet. Maybe I shouldn't have. I mean, I think that's correct, but I'm no expert, and even tho I SAID I'm not an expert, what if somebody takes my advice, tries to apply a tourniquet and winds up losing their leg? So..., I guess the main thing -- GET MEDICAL ADVICE FROM PROFESSIONALS!
And ahead of time, preferably. If you find yourself out on the trail, and you want to know something medical, if its not an emergency, and if you have cell service, there's always WEBMD..

FlyPaper

05-23-2017, 15:36

use snake proof gaiters

Perhaps a good idea for the 100 mile wilderness.

OCDave

05-23-2017, 15:38

... I am not personally going to become a medical professional nor do I often hike with medical professionals. But chances are, information I can glean from random people (at least those who volunteer to speak up) on WhiteBlaze will be as good or better than the random people (possibly no one) I'd likely be hiking with in a real emergency.....

You miss the point entirely FlyPaper. As you are not currently in an emergency situation, DON"T seek random advice. Now is the time you educate yourself by seeking qualified, validated information so that, in an emergent situation, the knowledge is part of you skill set.

Check out a Wilderness First Aid Class, Ask your MD, at least do some modest research of your own.

How skilled will you be next time you enter the wilderness? HINT: Suction Gizmo from REI is a poor solution.

Good Luck to you.

jefals

05-23-2017, 16:06

While I don't generally disagree, I kind of assumed we'd all be beyond this disclaimer. It's kind of like watching the FBI piracy warning when watching a DVD. How much of my life do I have to waste seeing the same warning over and over?
I don't know how much time you have to waste. I don't know you at all. There are new folks asking questions for the first time. There are folks all across the spectrum. You could be very smart or you could be a friggin idiot. For safety, it's wise to assume the latter, even if, in reality you're the former.
Me? I'm retired and kinda laid up, right now -- I've got plenty of time to waste. If you do too, I anxiously await your response! ?

ralph23

05-23-2017, 16:14

This is a great question and one that my hiking partner and I debated on our last trip when he almost stepped on a copperhead after dinner. So first we made a couple of assumptions: That a bite was by a venomous snake or one that we couldn't tell what exactly it was (under which we would assume is it was venomous); that venom was injected; we are out of cell phone range.

So here are the options presented to us:
A- That the healthy person would hike till they find cell phone coverage while the wounded person applies a tourniquet and waits. Then the healthy person would meet up with rescue personnel and direct them to the injured party.

B- Hike out under our own power. This goes AGAINST the general medical advice to place a tourniquet and not exert yourself. We theorized that the healthy person would carry both packs or we would ditch our packs in the woods and that the healthy person could carry the wounded hiker.

Decision- For me at least...was to hike out under my own power. Here is my rationale. Let's assume 1-2 hours for the healthy person to hike to a place with cell phone coverage. Then 4 hours for the rescue team to find the meeting point. Then 2-4 hours for the rescue team to hike to the injured persons location. These assumptions are based on my knowledge that most rural EMS is volunteer so it would take a long while to mobilize the needed resources and personnel. And that the personnel that were assembled would not be the most physically fit people requiring them a long time to make the hike with the equipment. So up to this point approximately 7-10 hours have passed. Then they would make a decision on a helicopter based on the wounded persons condition, location of any nearby landing spots, and whether a helicopter transport would change the resulting patient outcome. Let's say an hour for finding a landing spot. Or at least 5-7 hours for the rescue team to carry the hiker off the hill. By now a lifetime (quite literally) has passed. For me the decision was either hike out to safety and possibly injure myself OR sit and wait for a rescue while the injury gets worse. I prefer to be doing something with my time. But that's not to say it is the right decision.

ps- I have the utmost respect for fire, rescue, and ems as I was a career firefighter/paramedic for 10 years. Please don't take my assessment of their abilities as an insult. It's just a realistic idea of what they are capable of.

jefals

05-23-2017, 16:17

I can go to WebMD and I'm sure it will tell me to go to the doctor if bitten by a snake. I can google and probably find 100 other sites that would all tell me to go to the doctor.
Did you actually go to WEBMD before posting that? If all WEBMD does is tell you to go to the doctor, nobody would use it. It does have step by step procedures for snakebite treatment.

FlyPaper

05-23-2017, 16:22

I don't think I've missed the point. I disagree with the point.

The first response to the OP pointed to what seemed like valid information. So asking the question here can lead to validated information. Also, I don't know why you'd assume I have ONLY sought information here. Most people here visit remote locations. Perhaps some can find information I wouldn't find otherwise. Perhaps some have firsthand or secondhand information, that although not verifiable, would be something that I'd let influence my decision making in absence of the ability to reach professional medical care. I've already googled this and mostly find things about the "vanilla" scenario where you're bitten by the snake and just go to the doctor (oh, and remain calm).

But the information I am seeking pertains more to an "edge case" scenario. I am NOT going to visit my primary physician to ask what to do if I'm 25 miles from a road, bitten by a rattlesnake, it's raining, 6:00pm, and I've already walked 10 miles. I'm not going to study snake habitat. I'm not going to graph out cell coverage maps for the whole AT. No matter what I do now, chances are I won't get bit by a venomous snake based on my normal hiking habits. And I'm not going to read 100 websites that all tell me to call 911 and get to the doctor. Few others on the trail go to this extreme to learn about snakes, why is it imperative that I do?

I am not so much worried about being bit by a venomous snake as I am curious about it. Some people like to discuss AT history, some like to discuss politics, some like to discuss music. At this time, because of my recent encounter, I am interested in discussing snake bites while in remote locations. I'm not interested in being told to call 911 because anyone would have known to do that already and that would be my first step regardless of what I find here. I don't plan on being bit. As far as I know, most other hikers have not investigated this anymore than I have. If I fail to find reliable information, I'm no worse off than most hikers. There is no general charge being made that other hikers educate themselves on snake bites. Why can't I have an informal discussion about it without the condescension. I believe that the mix of good information and bad I'm getting here will result in me being more prepared for the unlikely case of my being bit, or my being near someone who has been bitten.

I'm not going to carry a snake bite kit even if they were effective because I deem them to be unnecessary weight. I'd already read that they weren't effective before they were recommended here. If I'm hiking and the topic comes up, I'll offer my opinion even though I'm not a professional. Perhaps I'll give wrong advice and someone will die, but also I could fail to give right advice and someone could die.

You miss the point entirely FlyPaper. As you are not currently in an emergency situation, DON"T seek random advice. Now is the time you educate yourself by seeking qualified, validated information so that, in an emergent situation, the knowledge is part of you skill set.

Check out a Wilderness First Aid Class, Ask your MD, at least do some modest research of your own.

How skilled will you be next time you enter the wilderness? HINT: Suction Gizmo from REI is a poor solution.

Good Luck to you.

FlyPaper

05-23-2017, 16:27

I have not gone to WebMD. But I have found numerous other sites about snake bites. I have not come across one that doesn't say "go to the doctor" when bitten by a venomous snake. There are numerous other things they say, and I have read them. I feel like I am ready to handle a snake bite as long as getting to the doctor is not too hard.

I mention WebMD more as an abstraction. I fully expect it will tell me that if bitten by a snake, that among other things that I should go to the doctor. I fully expect that what it would say is similar to what many other sites have said.

[QUOTE=FlyPaper;2151438]
I can go to WebMD and I'm sure it will tell me to go to the doctor if bitten by a snake. I can google and probably find 100 other sites that would all tell me to go to the doctor. [QUOTE]
Did you actually go to WEBMD before posting that? If all WEBMD does is tell you to go to the doctor, nobody would use it. It does have step by step procedures for snakebite treatment.

OCDave

05-23-2017, 16:32

Just a tip, "seemed valid" does not equal "validated"

Tipi Walter

05-23-2017, 16:34

use snake proof gaiters

Here you go, the lightest available---
http://turtleskin.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/65x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/0/0/0000019_snake-gaiters_550.jpeg

From---

http://turtleskin.com/snake-gaiters

Not cheap, but what is paranoia worth? Then again, won't work with trail runners etc. Won't work with anything a fang will get thru like fabric trail runners.

Have I or will I carry these things? No, never have. Would I? Sure, why not, if I had a pair sitting around. 8ozs is pretty light for peace of mind etc. Let's talk about packing our fears? Let's not.

Of course, when I'm sitting around as a couch potato at the computer these things seem mandatory. "Next trip!!!!" I howl. But when I'm actually out hiking---not so much. Until that first strike, I guess.

Last summer I saw one copperhead and 3 rattlesnakes in a single backpacking trip, a record. It spooked me. And they all started to look like Jimmys to me, or at least they will respond and recognize this name :) Or addressed as Sir Pit Viper, in a formal setting.

I see alot of pit vipers on my trips---but I've always liked snakes, since being a kid. Had a reptile garden in Oklahoma and charged neighborhood kids 5 cents to visit it in my garage.

But in a real-world backpacking scenario of getting hit by a rattler? With no hope of rescue?
** First I'd scream like a two year old.
** Panic and increased heart rate. At my age a heart attack could be what kills me---as the venom does its work.
** I'd try to get down to a creek and get in cold water---just a gut hunch to cool my system down. Or at least submerge the wound. THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, just something I would think seriously about.
** Try to set up camp and drink a huge amount of water. Perhaps eat.
** Wait. And have a long conversation with Miss Nature.

Tipi Walter

05-23-2017, 16:48

And Ralph23---Don't leave out this---The $150,000 to $200,000 hospital bill.

RangerZ

05-23-2017, 16:52

Tipi, I'm pretty sure the ATC has a rule that you can't name every snake Jimmy.

I always thought their name was Jake (the snake) NoShoulders. 🐍

HooKooDooKu

05-23-2017, 16:54

DO NOT seek medical advice from random people on forums!
While there is some good advice being shared on this topic, when I see suggestions that include using a tourniquet... this answer is starting to make the most sense.

rocketsocks

05-23-2017, 16:55

Tipi Walter

05-23-2017, 16:57

I always thought their name was Jake (the snake) NoShoulders. 

No, this is Jake--
39390

And this is Jimmy---
39391

Or really, any first name starting with the letter J will work.

FlyPaper

05-23-2017, 17:00

While there is some good advice being shared on this topic, when I see suggestions that include using a tourniquet... this answer is starting to make the most sense.

I've already found sites that say using a tourniquet is not recommended.

Still I'm happy to hear what people have to say.

The fact remains, if you're bitten in a remote location with no cell coverage, professional advice won't be available. Yet you'll still have to make decisions.

Tipi Walter

05-23-2017, 17:01

My hiking buddy got bit on the butt during a morning constitutional, so I ran to town to get help. I found a Doctor and asked what should we do? He said I had to suck the venom out and spit....so I ran back to the trail, found him and said I found a doctor! he asked "well, what did he say?" So I told him!
"The Doctor said you are going to die" :D

Ha ha ha. Reminds me of a story on my last April backpacking trip---with some imaginary buddies---

We all smile and chew on questionable mushrooms which Philip says are mountain apples. They sure don't taste like apples. After we eat a dozen or more Philip thinks they must be poisonous mountain apples just as Johnny pitches forward with blood shooting out of his 9 orifices.

'Here quick!" I tell Philip. "Blow dog saliva up his pee hole" and Philip does a double take and our dog looks pensive. Afterwards Philip is exhausted but it seems to help as Johnny does a back flip into a briar patch and then a gleeful forward somersault out again.

Sarcasm the elf

05-23-2017, 17:03

Wow, I really thought that the original post was a reasonable question. Oh well.

Seeing as this discussion has already gone off the rails, I'll just leave this here.

https://www.cheerupemokid.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2015-05-28_rescue.png

FlyPaper

05-23-2017, 17:04

Just a tip, "seemed valid" does not equal "validated"

Not sure if this is point of vocabulary or a point about getting things off the Internet. If a point of vocabulary, thanks for the tip.

FlyPaper

05-23-2017, 17:05

Love it!!!

rocketsocks

05-23-2017, 17:09

rocketsocks

05-23-2017, 17:11

Ha ha ha. Reminds me of a story on my last April backpacking trip---with some imaginary buddies---

We all smile and chew on questionable mushrooms which Philip says are mountain apples. They sure don't taste like apples. After we eat a dozen or more Philip thinks they must be poisonous mountain apples just as Johnny pitches forward with blood shooting out of his 9 orifices.

'Here quick!" I tell Philip. "Blow dog saliva up his pee hole" and Philip does a double take and our dog looks pensive. Afterwards Philip is exhausted but it seems to help as Johnny does a back flip into a briar patch and then a gleeful forward somersault out again.LOL, reminds me of and old joke...
I remember the punch line but not the joke, oh well.
"No, you don't understand, Chunks was the dog"

Sarcasm the elf

05-23-2017, 17:22

...........

OCDave

05-23-2017, 18:16

Not sure if this is point of vocabulary or a point about getting things off the Internet. If a point of vocabulary, thanks for the tip.

No; just the opposite.

Alligator

05-23-2017, 18:16

I receive basic first aid training generally yearly. Snake bites are almost always covered. It really is basic first aid and so one doesn't exactly need to be a doctor, nurse, or even an emt to offer a suggestion. Next. The course is typically taught by an emt and uses standard training materials put together by either the Red Cross or Blue Cross Blue Shield. Based on the course, and the parts I find most applicable to my life, I may repeat some of the information during discussions like these. The admonition to seek professional medical help while sound does not need to be wielded like a sword in the discussion. On any question asked here you may not know the background of the person answering. Any response could be total BS. Wouldn't be too much discussion if every time someone asks a question the answer is "Go ask a real person that you know in person who knows". Even asking one's doctor about hiking related material, they might not know how being remote affects the situation or they might be incorrect.

Ralph23, the general medical advice is not to apply a tourniquet. In a venomous snake bite, swelling can occur. This would make the tourniquet dangerous for the limb. Recommendations are also to remove rings or bracelets or other possible restrictions like tight clothing. The rest of the information provided though ralph23 about extraction times is in line with discussions about wilderness extraction I have been given. It may take up to 8 hours for help to get to you, just depends on where you are. A person doesn't keel over and die immediately upon being bit, a person has several hours to get antivenin but immediate help is best. Another recommendation many times given from medical sources is to keep the bite area below the heart so as to not assist the venom in traveling easily within your body.

My experience with poisonous snakes has been to encounter them while walking on the trail. I consider a leg strike to be more likely. People can get bit reaching into a snake's zone when they are out sunning. Rocky outcrops make nice rest areas but snakes like them too. And there are the idiots who can't resist playing with snakes which is often a hand bite.
If unable to contact medical personnel through cell service, I would take out my map and estimate the closest extraction point by vehicle. Coming in on an ATV is a possibility as well, so be aware of that. Generally not hard to come in a rural setting. If reasonably close, I would go ahead and walk there. I would consider the availability of cell service on the way. If a road/jeep trail is not reasonably close I would consider the possibility of getting cell service and finding a suitable helicopter landing zone or someplace suitable for a longline as a worst case scenario. If I had a partner, I would send the partner to find help. I would follow a predetermined route to wherever we determined was an easy extraction point. I would probably hedge my bets with having my partner find cell service on a different route. Note the time of the bite.

If you can get service, the emergency response team will in most cases have good estimates for getting you help as ralph23 has pointed out. Try to provide a good estimate of your location which will speed your extraction, having a map is a good idea or a mapping app at the very least.

ralph23

05-23-2017, 18:36

Alligator, Thanks for the advice! Clearly I don't have much rural medicine experience. My only thought would be that applying a tourniquet is not recommended for average people. But what of someone who gets bit and then has to walk for 2-3 hours on their own to find help. Yes, the tourniquet isn't the first option but would it delay serious effects of the bite to ensure the person can seek that help? (Yes, we are talking about a very specific situation here and the answer shouldn't effect anyone's decision process for most snake bites)

FlyPaper

05-23-2017, 19:27

Perhaps I started this thread poorly. Let me share what I have learned about what to do if bitten by a snake.

1. Keep Calm. (Often other injuries come from panic). Keep affected area below heart and restrict movement.
2. Remove constricting items in anticipation of swelling.
3. Allow the bite to bleed freely for 15-30 seconds before cleansing.
4. Create a loose splint...
5. Contact medical help asap.
6. Evacuate immediately by hiking to a car, a helicopter or medical staff
7. Monitor vital signs.
8. Attempt to identify snake, and bring in the dead snake, but only if can be done safely.

Don't
1. Don't let victim engage in strenuous physical activity.
2. Don't apply tourniquet.
3. Don't apply a cold pack.
4. Don't apply a suction device.
5. Don't allow victim to eat or drink anything unless okayed by medical staff.
6. Don't attempt oral suction.

#5 and #6 in the upper list seem the most problematic when in a remote location. It does not seem like the advice to "hike to a car" would be followed by the words "no matter how far it is" and possibly not with "even if night hiking is necessary". There is also no mention of what to do if you cannot contact medical help for at least several hours or even overnight.

This is really the starting point for the discussion and the presumption is that we all have, or can easily get the same baseline of information about what to do if you're not really that remote.

...Continued on next post...

FlyPaper

05-23-2017, 19:46

A few other points that I may have mentioned...

1. I give everyone here credit for understanding that not everything they read on the Internet is true. Let's all agree beforehand that we understand that so this won't have to keep coming up. And please give me credit for understanding that too. Nevertheless, we all seem to learn many things on the Internet and actually believe them to be true.

2. I give everyone here credit for understanding that properly trained individuals know better than the average person. Please trust the fact that I understand this too. Once this is established, we don't have to repeat this in every thread or multiple times in this thread.

3. I am not going to make an appointment with my Primary Care Physician to discuss this. Mostly it is because I think my chances of being bit in a remote setting are extremely low. But I am also going to make a guess that no one reading this has made an appointment with their primary care physician, yet all of us are going to continue hiking anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If many of the hikers you know have had, or intend to have discussions with their primary doctors about remote snake bite scenarios, then I guess I'm the negligent one. But I really think I am more typical of the average hiker. If sometime in the future I am bitten in a remote location, I will choose my course of action based on what I've learned on the Internet and whatever other information I find credible from other sources.

4. I have learned nearly everything I know about snake bites from the Internet. Before the Internet, I would have thought it was a good idea to suck out the poison orally. Now I believe differently. I have formed that opinion from reading on the Internet, mostly from sites that sound helpful. I have no independent medical training nor source to use to double check what I am getting from the Internet. And unless I miss my guess, most of us are in the same boat. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. If all of you have a library of medical books you use to double check advice you get on the Internet, I guess by comparison I'm taking a risky shortcut.

As I've contemplated writing this, I see "Alligator" has chimed in. He sounds very credible to me, although I have no personal knowledge. Again, this is the Internet. "Alligator" could be an very articulate 14 year old for all we know. Nevertheless, in absence of any other information that convinces me otherwise between now and some future remote snake bite, I would be very much inclined to follow all of his advice even though he is a complete stranger and has provided no proof that he has any actual training.

rocketsocks

05-23-2017, 19:55

...........bear spray I guess

Tinstaafl

05-23-2017, 20:20

Also with a little practice and paying attention you can generally "smell" copperheads before you are close enough to be bitten ... the smell is best described as sour cucumber.
I'm well acquainted with that smell; I live in copperhead country. Just wanted to mention that in my personal experience, the smell only presents itself when the critter is agitated and ready to do business. If he's just hanging out and staring at his navel, nothing.

So if you do catch a whiff, best freeze, fight or get out of Dodge--as appropriate.

saltysack

05-23-2017, 20:54

rocketsocks

05-23-2017, 21:03

Haaa my dad told that same joke and another version where he got bit on the dong.....he then walked into the pharmacist and asked what to do...she asked to see it.....she took a look and offered him $50[emoji51]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkdats da one!

Alligator

05-23-2017, 21:12

I've been trapped in a basement since 2003 and I don't know how old I am. My earliest memory is of a green lighted screen, it was May 2:D. I don't think it's my mom's basement cause I know that the person that feeds me is just a dude with a wig and he'll never be my mom no matter what he says.

MuddyWaters

05-23-2017, 21:13

FreeGoldRush

05-23-2017, 21:32

What happens to you after a rattlesnake bite to your leg that injects venom? What can you expect in the first hour or the 8th hour while trying to talk someone into getting you out of there?

devoidapop

05-23-2017, 21:42

Watch where you put hands , feet, and butt
and you wont get bit

Do you worry about what to do if you are in a really bad car crash in the middle of nowhere?
Exact same thing, wait no, thats much much worse. Better worry about it some.

Why do you care what other people want to worry about, wonder about, or discuss. If you think it's silly, move on. Or start a thread about avoiding snake bites or always being right. Why does everything warrant a negative response?

MuddyWaters

05-23-2017, 21:54

Why do you care what other people want to worry about, wonder about, or discuss. If you think it's silly, move on. Or start a thread about avoiding snake bites or always being right. Why does everything warrant a negative response?

Its a difficult to answer question

Theres only three things you CAN do

1. Call for help. Cell , plb, spot, etc
2. Send someone else for help
3. Try to self-rescue

What you do, depends heavily on circumstances
To heavily to give a blanket answer

In all cases if waiting for rescue you will be still, elevate limb below heart, keep heart rate down to slow spread...basic stuff.

If you are worried about it, carry a satellite communicator....period

Same goes for heart attack, fall, broken leg, etc, etc, etc
Nothing special about a snake bite, just a fear someone is focusing on, while ignoring others of similar or greater risk. If one actually goes and hikes...these fears dissapear.

In all cases, prevention should be the main focus

rocketsocks

05-23-2017, 23:09

Well, one thing I know for sure...I'm gettin' a nice wallet outta the ordeal :D

DownEaster

05-24-2017, 01:41

Perhaps a good idea for the 100 mile wilderness.
There aren't any poisonous snakes in Maine, so wearing snake-proof gaiters there is purely wasted effort.

MuddyWaters

05-24-2017, 03:42

Always good to remember antivenin can cost $15,000-$80,000 as well. The good thing is you probably wont get it without bringing in snake.

DownEaster

05-24-2017, 07:32

Always good to remember antivenin can cost $15,000-$80,000 as well.
If you're going to take more than the recommended time to get to a source of antivenin, you might as well just fly to a hospital in Mexico. The cost of the identical antivenin there is about $100/vial, vs. $8,000 - $40,000/vial in the U.S. The number of vials required for treatment varies with the amount of venom injected. The most likely possibility is that you'll have a mild to moderate reaction and won't need antivenin, but U.S. treatment could cost enough to ruin your life.

FlyPaper

05-24-2017, 09:18

THIS sounds like the biggest reason to avoid a snake bite.

If you're going to take more than the recommended time to get to a source of antivenin, you might as well just fly to a hospital in Mexico. The cost of the identical antivenin there is about $100/vial, vs. $8,000 - $40,000/vial in the U.S. The number of vials required for treatment varies with the amount of venom injected. The most likely possibility is that you'll have a mild to moderate reaction and won't need antivenin, but U.S. treatment could cost enough to ruin your life.

FlyPaper

05-24-2017, 09:45

There aren't any poisonous snakes in Maine, so wearing snake-proof gaiters there is purely wasted effort.

Good to know. Another piece of advice I'll take from a random person on the Internet.

Sarcasm the elf

05-24-2017, 09:56

Good to know. Another piece of advice I'll take from a random person on the Internet.

According to the comic I posted earlier, he is technically correct.

CalebJ

05-24-2017, 10:11

Good to know. Another piece of advice I'll take from a random person on the Internet.

Would you take it from here?
http://www.maine.gov/ifw/wildlife/human/lww_information/snakes.html

FlyPaper

05-24-2017, 10:41

I wasn't being sarcastic. Well, perhaps I was being sarcastic toward those that insist you only get info from experts. I am very much inclined to take information such as this from strangers who have no reason to lie and don't otherwise diminish their credibility.

Would you take it from here?
http://www.maine.gov/ifw/wildlife/human/lww_information/snakes.html

DownEaster

05-24-2017, 10:45

Good to know. Another piece of advice I'll take from a random person on the Internet.
I don't see the reason for your snark. My chosen user name ought to give you a clue that I know at least something about life in Maine. And it takes very little time to check my statement, as CalebJ did; it's less effort to cut "poisonous snakes in Maine" from my post and paste into your browser's Search box than for you to reply without checking. :rolleyes:

BuckeyeBill

05-24-2017, 10:57

Straight from WebMD site. Treatment for Snake Bites (http://www.webmd.com/first-aid/snakebite-treatment) Please note the do nots, such as do not apply a tourniquet.

Tipi Walter

05-24-2017, 11:00

This should make everyone feel great---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcEikk6YK1Y

BuckeyeBill

05-24-2017, 11:01

sorry for the repeat of information. You can delete both posts please.

FlyPaper

05-24-2017, 11:02

Sorry for the confusion. I was being snarky toward someone else on this thread. See post #5 for context. Also see the following debate so see where I've stood on this (which is that we can and do learn much from people who are not experts).

Actually your claim that there were no venomous snakes in Maine is believable, sounds knowable, can be easily checked, and is something of which you'd not likely have a reason to lie. Also, you have done nothing to diminish your credibility. Consequently, I was willing to take your statement as is without further checking.

I have no beef with you and I am not mocking you. My apologies again for sounding like I did.

I don't see the reason for your snark. My chosen user name ought to give you a clue that I know at least something about life in Maine. And it takes very little time to check my statement, as CalebJ did; it's less effort to cut "poisonous snakes in Maine" from my post and paste into your browser's Search box than for you to reply without checking. :rolleyes:

Tipi Walter

05-24-2017, 11:10

As regards my video---then there is this viewpoint which I relate too---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwKyYcM_HsQ

saltysack

05-24-2017, 11:27

If you're going to take more than the recommended time to get to a source of antivenin, you might as well just fly to a hospital in Mexico. The cost of the identical antivenin there is about $100/vial, vs. $8,000 - $40,000/vial in the U.S. The number of vials required for treatment varies with the amount of venom injected. The most likely possibility is that you'll have a mild to moderate reaction and won't need antivenin, but U.S. treatment could cost enough to ruin your life.

Curious if health insurance would cover?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Disco

05-24-2017, 11:41

In 250+ miles of hiking on the AT here in PA, I've encountered only one rattlesnake who was happy to slither off the trail after I repeatedly struck the ground nearby with my hiking poles. Good thing I wasn't blasting music through earbuds, or I would have missed the loud rattling of the snake, which was sunning itself right on the trail.Noticed the 'snakes in Maine' page (http://www.maine.gov/ifw/wildlife/human/lww_information/snakes.html) mentions that there are 5 'keeled' species, then proceeds to name and describe all 4(?).Preventing a snake bite is the best advice, of course, BUT even if we succeed, we may encounter SOMEONE ELSE who got bitten by a venomous snake, and we'll know how to help them. Good comments and info on this thread. Thank you, FlyPaper, and all other contributors.

sloger

05-24-2017, 11:51

"Doctor say you gon'ia die"

tscoffey

05-24-2017, 12:28

Also with a little practice and paying attention you can generally "smell" copperheads before you are close enough to be bitten ... the smell is best described as sour cucumber.

As a predator that relies on stealth to take its victims, how can it function when it is constantly giving away its presence?

rocketsocks

05-24-2017, 12:55

This should make everyone feel great---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcEikk6YK1Yi would have died of a heart thing

Disco

05-24-2017, 13:19

As a predator that relies on stealth to take its victims, how can it function when it is constantly giving away its presence?

Its victims probably don't follow and read WhiteBlaze forums, where they would learn about that telltale smell. :) Perhaps the sour cucumber smell appeals to and attracts small rodents thus acting as a lure. However, a previous post says the smell occurs only when the copperhead is agitated, so who knows?

Disco

05-24-2017, 13:25

This should make everyone feel great---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcEikk6YK1Y
Someone was operating the camera, .. it was not on a tripod, the viewpoint changes, and zooming in and out occurs. Thus, at least two people were putting their safety at risk. Did this guy deliberately sit down next to a rattlesnake to make a video?

perdidochas

05-24-2017, 13:31

Curious if health insurance would cover?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From the vast internet research I've done on the subject (I spent 5 whole minutes), I think most health insurance covers anti-venin. That's part of the reason for the high sticker shock. Insured people (or their insurance company) won't pay near the $8,000-$40,000 per vial MSRP.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/09/the-crazy-reason-it-costs-14000-to-treat-a-snakebite-with-14-medicine/

Tipi Walter

05-24-2017, 14:02

Someone was operating the camera, .. it was not on a tripod, the viewpoint changes, and zooming in and out occurs. Thus, at least two people were putting their safety at risk. Did this guy deliberately sit down next to a rattlesnake to make a video?

Of course the vid was made deliberately and of course done next to a rattlesnake. How else could the video have been shot?? Other than the staging, what's your point? Does such manipulation in your mind mean such a scenario can never happen? It could happen. I take reststops all the time on hot summer days and unless 100% vigilant this could happen. His point in the vid is to look around the area before you sit. Point taken.

One time I was coming down the Big Fat Gap trail in Slickrock wilderness and stopped to clip a briar out of my face and heard a buzzing sound under my feet,but it sounded like a distant cicada and I kept working. Behold, below at me feet was Little Jimmy, relative to Big Jimmy.

The other point of the video is to sit calmly and not panic, although I myself would never touch the tail of such a snake and instead slowly slide my butt and body away from Sir PIT.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpack-2015-Trips-161/20-Days-on-Medicare/i-tDdjhTv/0/6bd128eb/XL/TRIP%20166%20450-XL.jpg

saltysack

05-24-2017, 14:17

This should make everyone feel great---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcEikk6YK1Y

Dam I had to change my underwear just watching that fool...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yaduck9

05-24-2017, 15:25

[QUOTE=perdidochas;2151661]From the vast internet research I've done on the subject (I spent 5 whole minutes), I think most health insurance covers anti-venin. That's part of the reason for the high sticker shock. Insured people (or their insurance company) won't pay near the $8,000-$40,000 per vial MSRP.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/09/the-crazy-reason-it-costs-14000-to-treat-a-snakebite-with-14-medicine/

This guy keeps many poisonous snakes at his home and has most of the anti venom. But he won't keep an american rattlesnakes because of the cost of the anti venom

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUtdmXEDHdSHPZP37n_Bymw

Every once in a while when i want to scare myself i will watch one of his videos.

rocketsocks

05-24-2017, 17:13

[QUOTE=perdidochas;2151661]From the vast internet research I've done on the subject (I spent 5 whole minutes), I think most health insurance covers anti-venin. That's part of the reason for the high sticker shock. Insured people (or their insurance company) won't pay near the $8,000-$40,000 per vial MSRP.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/09/the-crazy-reason-it-costs-14000-to-treat-a-snakebite-with-14-medicine/

This guy keeps many poisonous snakes at his home and has most of the anti venom. But he won't keep an american rattlesnakes because of the cost of the anti venom

Like I said earlier, you gotta have a sense of humor, good article. My son has a high school friend who now lives in FL picking oranges on a farm, he told me he goes to work with a big stick and a knife, the stick is to kill the snake that bites you, and the knife is to cut off the head to bring to the hospital so you can get treated with the right anti venom.

JFKinYK

05-24-2017, 20:06

Haven't read all 5 pages, but it's really important to try and quickly identify the snake that bit you for future reference.

MikekiM

05-25-2017, 21:06

This should make everyone feel great---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcEikk6YK1Y

Um....seriously?

Sent from somewhere east of Montauk

MtDoraDave

05-25-2017, 22:13

Well this was a fun thread.
* Not a doctor*
Back when I was in the military, we had many safety and first aid classes or workshops.
Many of the logical sounding advice in this thread is what I recall from years of hearing do's and don'ts.
I've heard (more than once) that something like only 2% of rattlesnake bites are lethal. This should "help" with the stay calm and don't panic part of the first aid advice.
A tourniquet is always a last resort. If you've decided to lose your leg to prevent death, THAT'S when you use a tourniquet. (There's a procedure of releasing a tourniquet periodically to prevent loss of limb, but I don't know it)
Last November, hiking north of Damascus, VA, I got spooked when I realized I was very much alone with no cell signal or any other way to seek help should catastrophe occur.
Staying calm and keeping heart rate down are sure to be tricky if forced to self rescue via hiking out.
This may be THE time to set up your tent ON the trail, so another hiker or hunter finds you. Try to write "help" where easily found in case you lose consciousness - so a hiker doesn't just walk around you thinking you're just rude.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

MikekiM

05-26-2017, 09:07

.....This may be THE time to set up your tent ON the trail, so another hiker or hunter finds you. Try to write "help" where easily found in case you lose consciousness - so a hiker doesn't just walk around you thinking you're just rude.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Good advice.

I know the feeling of being solo and out of reach. That's the main reason I now carry an InReach. no pun intended.

Traveler

05-26-2017, 09:37

So, screaming like Pee Wee Herman, wildly waving arms in the air as one tries to run out of the woods is not a good strategy... who knew.

cmoulder

05-26-2017, 09:52

MuddyWaters

05-26-2017, 10:22

Haven't read all 5 pages, but it's really important to try and quickly identify the snake that bit you for future reference.

Without actual snake....hospitals usually wont give antivenin. They dont trust joe sixpack to know what bit him.

Even here, you will see pics of various snakes people mistake for rattlers....

Lnj

05-26-2017, 12:03

I believe at the point illustrated in the video provided by Tipi, the snake bite would no longer be an issue of concern for me, as I would drop dead with a heart attack well before the snake even thought to bite me.... Plus, I would be very unclean and likely not very appetizing to anything, anywhere. :eek:

MikekiM

05-26-2017, 12:15

This is when all those yoga sessions prove their worth — so you can bend over and kiss your ass goodbye. ;)

Seriously, I carry a spouse-mandated Spot Gen3 and while I am loath to request assistance in the woods I think would press that SOS button if a rattlesnake had a good chomp on my leg. I am, after all, paying for insurance with the monthly plan. Although I don't actually know what is covered, so perhaps this discussion will prompt me to read the fine print. :-?

Not intending to go off topic, but I tried the Spot for a season and the preset alert/messages that were to sent to my spouse, were spotty at best. Some she recv'd others she didn't. That didn't leave us feeling too comfortable about the SOS call should something like a snake bite, fall or getting lost befall me. Plus, neither of us liked that if I did have to pull the rip cord and send an SOS, I had no way to communicate details of what actually was happening. Was it a snake bite.. I am awake, I can communicate, this is what the snake looked like? Or am I in a ravine, and just passed out because I am mangled? Pack & provisions with me? Or not? It made more sense to have two way comm's with the InReach.

cmoulder

05-26-2017, 15:08

I've read that the early versions had issues but I've used mine a fair amount with 100% reliability.

I figure the chances of my actually needing one for rescue are so slim that I accept the limitations, and I wouldn't carry one at all if I didn't have to give my wife the reassuring daily pings. 4.3 oz of marital bliss.

In the snakebite scenario I doubt they're bringing antivenin anyway, so getting out and to a hospital are going to be the first priority. I'm sure some SAR experts will correct me if I'm wrong.

Based on some comments above, I think I'd use my remaining moments of lucidity to check maps for fire or ATV trails to aid extraction before hitting the SOS button. Or maybe not. Who knows for sure what the hell they would do in this situation?

Tundracamper

05-28-2017, 09:12

"It has been estimated that 7,000–8,000 people per year receive venomous bites in the United States, and about five of those people die."

From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_snake_bites_in_the_United_States

I have no medical advice. However, the odds of surviving a bite are pretty good. Given the numbers, you're probably more likely to die in a car accident on the way home.

Here's an interesting article on what to do in such cases. Yes, a $10k helicopter flight is expensive, but the alternative is not good.

http://www.wildbackpacker.com/wilderness-survival/articles/treating-a-snake-bite/

Tipi Walter

05-28-2017, 10:21

Here's an interesting article on what to do in such cases. Yes, a $10k helicopter flight is expensive, but the alternative is not good.

http://www.wildbackpacker.com/wilderness-survival/articles/treating-a-snake-bite/

Thanks for the link but . . . . Let's say I'm on a solo trip. Your link says---

"Evacuate the victim immediately by hiking to car, a helicopter or medical staff."

And then it says in its The Six Don't's---

"Don't allow the victim (me, I'm solo remember?) to engage in strenuous physical activity."

Okay, which is it? The areas I backpack would require very tough hiking to get out to either a phone sweet spot or a road.

And the advice to "don't drink anything" runs counter to my intuition as I'd want to drink as much water as possible to dilute the venom in my bloodstream??? The reason for not drinking anything is "to keep metabolism at a low rate."

Yet another source, extramilest.com, says to "drink some water."

saltysack

05-28-2017, 19:50

Disco

05-29-2017, 08:44

"It has been estimated that 7,000–8,000 people per year receive venomous bites in the United States, and about five of those people die."
From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_snake_bites_in_the_United_States

Thank you, Tundracamper, for the interesting wiki article. Of the 19 fatalities listed for the period 2010-16 with a KNOWN activity by the victim, at least 12 fatalities were avoidable: 4 by pet snake, 3 during snake-handling religious service, 5 while deliberately handling, trying to kill, or trying to move a venomous snake. Only 7 fatalities were during normal outdoor activities: 2 camping, 2 river wading, 1 gardening, 1 stepped on snake, 1 hiking. That's about 1 snakebite fatality per year in the entire USA. Nevertheless, remain vigilant.

FreeGoldRush

05-29-2017, 09:12

When hiking the AT it seems reasonable that expecting someone to evacuate you will take several hours longer than walking out yourself. Road crossings are frequent on the AT. Even with an InReach or cell service it would take some time for multiple people to get to you who are able to carry you out.

Is there any real research that shows sitting still for several hours additional time is better than walking to a road and getting treatment hours sooner? I keep hearing you should sit still but I'm skeptical because I haven't seen it backed up with data.

Tipi Walter

05-29-2017, 09:57

Is there any real research that shows sitting still for several hours additional time is better than walking to a road and getting treatment hours sooner? I keep hearing you should sit still but I'm skeptical because I haven't seen it backed up with data.

Sitting still for hours after a rattler bite?? The movie Billy Jack---(after this scene he sits and gets a vision etc etc). Not recommended for your average hiker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ertqbAkcoLg

Disco

05-29-2017, 16:45

Sitting still for hours after a rattler bite?? The movie Billy Jack---(after this scene he sits and gets a vision etc etc). Not recommended for your average hiker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ertqbAkcoLg

Great video! Saw that movie ages ago but didn't remember the scene. Wouldn't want to be actor Tom Laughlin's stunt double. ;)

Tipi Walter

05-29-2017, 17:03

Great video! Saw that movie ages ago but didn't remember the scene. Wouldn't want to be actor Tom Laughlin's stunt double. ;)

It's all fake of course, something about Billy Jack using rattler venom for his "vision quest".

righand

05-31-2017, 18:24

i meet a guy in Glasgow Va that got bit, he was trying to pick it up LOL his hand swelled like a ballon! (Mountain Mike) he was ginseng hunting had lots of it to

BuckeyeBill

06-01-2017, 04:27

Hope he had a good haul of ginseng, as anti venom is expensive.

TexasBob

06-01-2017, 10:20

[QUOTE=perdidochas;2151661
This guy keeps many poisonous snakes at his home and has most of the anti venom. But he won't keep an american rattlesnakes because of the cost of the anti venom....

[QUOTE=yaduck9;2151675]
Like I said earlier, you gotta have a sense of humor, good article. My son has a high school friend who now lives in FL picking oranges on a farm, he told me he goes to work with a big stick and a knife, the stick is to kill the snake that bites you, and the knife is to cut off the head to bring to the hospital so you can get treated with the right anti venom.

Anti-venom available in the US (Crofab for example) is polyvalent and treats for all pit vipers (copperheads, rattlers & cotton mouths) but not for coral snakes. If you get bit by a rattler or a copperhead you are getting treated with the same anti-venom. There is a separate anti-venom for coral snakes.

Five Tango

06-01-2017, 10:35

[QUOTE=Tipi Walter;2151459]Here you go, the lightest available---
http://turtleskin.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/65x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/0/0/0000019_snake-gaiters_550.jpeg

From---

http://turtleskin.com/snake-gaiters

Not cheap, but what is paranoia worth? Then again, won't work with trail runners etc. Won't work with anything a fang will get thru like fabric trail runners.

Have I or will I carry these things? No, never have. Would I? Sure, why not, if I had a pair sitting around. 8ozs is pretty light for peace of mind etc. Let's talk about packing our fears? Let's not.

Of course, when I'm sitting around as a couch potato at the computer these things seem mandatory. "Next trip!!!!" I howl. But when I'm actually out hiking---not so much. Until that first strike, I guess.

Last summer I saw one copperhead and 3 rattlesnakes in a single backpacking trip, a record. It spooked me. And they all started to look like Jimmys to me, or at least they will respond and recognize this name :) Or addressed as Sir Pit Viper, in a formal setting.

I see alot of pit vipers on my trips---but I've always liked snakes, since being a kid. Had a reptile garden in Oklahoma and charged neighborhood kids 5 cents to visit it in my garage.

But in a real-world backpacking scenario of getting hit by a rattler? With no hope of rescue?
** First I'd scream like a two year old.
** Panic and increased heart rate. At my age a heart attack could be what kills me---as the venom does its work.
** I'd try to get down to a creek and get in cold water---just a gut hunch to cool my system down. Or at least submerge the wound. THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, just something I would think seriously about.
** Try to set up camp and drink a huge amount of water. Perhaps eat.
** Wait. And have a long conversation with Miss Nature.[/QUOTE
Actually,I like this idea so Thanks Tipi Walter! The reason being that they weigh no more than the non snake proof knee high gaiters I currently have.I keep my current gaiters treated with permethrin and Deet sprays more for tick protection as well as briars and grass as I walk some unmaintained bush whacking places.FWIW,I have not picked up any ticks since going to "treated knee highs"