Connecticut parks closed to camping

[greenmtnboy]

http://www.ct.gov/deep/cwp/view.asp?a=2716&q=325038&deepNav_GID=1621%20

Macedonia Brook is closed for camping in 2017 due to their short-sighted budget. The A/T used to pass through there.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Thanks for the head's up.

Now don't get me started about the politics involved.:mad:

[Tipi Walter]

It should be noted that Connecticut does not have a single wilderness area.

[Sarcasm the elf]

It should be noted that Connecticut does not have a single wilderness area.
One of the reasons that keeping the state parks and forests in good operating condition is so essential.

[Tipi Walter]

What's even more amazing is Connecticut doesn't have a single national forest. Heck even Texas has a national forest.

[Dogwood]

What's even more amazing is Connecticut doesn't have a single national forest. Heck even Texas has a national forest.

Meh. From the 200 or so different miles I have traveled on foot through Sam Houston NF from I took away it was mamaged largely by and for the logging industry although some more protected scenic areas and adjacent SPs hold more of a scenic appeal.

[Dogwood]

Expect many more closings IF people like US do nothing but complain after it is gone.

[Venchka]

What's even more amazing is Connecticut doesn't have a single national forest. Heck even Texas has a national forest.

Texas has precious little public lands. Something to do with being a sovereign nation prior to becoming a state.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[coach lou]

It should be noted that Connecticut does not have a single wilderness area.

Yes we do......three actually, one in Bridgeport, one in New Haven and one in Hartford.

[Alligator]

The title of your thread does not seem accurate http://www.nhregister.com/lifestyle/20170528/connecticut-camping-season-kicks-off-amid-state-budget-cuts-layoff-threats. The article I linked to states 4 small campgrounds are closed to camping. The article lasted says there are 15 campgrounds in the state.

[1azarus]

Yes we do......three actually, one in Bridgeport, one in New Haven and one in Hartford.
thanks, coach... us nutmeggers need to stick together!

[Sarcasm the elf]

The title of your thread does not seem accurate http://www.nhregister.com/lifestyle/20170528/connecticut-camping-season-kicks-off-amid-state-budget-cuts-layoff-threats. The article I linked to states 4 small campgrounds are closed to camping. The article lasted says there are 15 campgrounds in the state.
A lot is still up in the air while the legislators wrestle over a fiscal crisis in the state. Unfortunately park funding was severly cut last year and has now emerged as a high profile political football during the budget process this year. As early as last week they had threatened to completely shutter many of the most popular parks prior to Memorial day weekend.
Staffing has already been reduced to the point where there are only 35 full time state park employees maintaining 110 state parks and 40 state forests. Many of the state firefighters that fought the recent A.T. wildfire in Kent were doing so despite being on notice that they are going to be laid off in the near future.
I don't know that I can write much more without getting into politics, however it's fair to say that if something is not done to shore up the park and DEEP budgets then these will likely be just the first of many closures.

[Bronk]

It doesn't take much in the way of resources to operate a public campground. I know of several operated on public land that contract with a campground host who mows the grass, cleans the restrooms and picks up the trash...all they get is a cut of the fees charged to campers. There is no reason to close a campground due to lack of funds. This is either very poor management or a deliberate attempt to blackmail voters/legislators into supporting an otherwise unpopular budget proposal. Same thing happened when all of the federal facilities were 'closed' due to budget issues. I saw lots of gates locked that led to areas that receive little to no maintenance at all and did not require public funds to keep them open during the short time supposed budget issues kept them closed. Some of those locked gates were on campgrounds like I described above, and the only people hurt by closing them were the campground host who could no longer collect camping fees and the campers whose vacation or weekend was ruined.

[Just Tom]

What's even more amazing is Connecticut doesn't have a single national forest. Heck even Texas has a national forest.

I'm confused why it matters if a state contains a national forest?

That seems something easy to establish in states that were later settled, but Connecticut was well settled very early in our nations history. But to go back to point one, why does it matter?

[Just Tom]

More on the general topic of the post, this has impacted our Boy Scout Troop, as we use the state parks that offer youth group camping, and after the proposed cuts there are only two in the state left open.

[Tipi Walter]

I'm confused why it matters if a state contains a national forest?

That seems something easy to establish in states that were later settled, but Connecticut was well settled very early in our nations history. But to go back to point one, why does it matter?

It matters so outdoorsmen can go backpacking and camping without fear of permits or fees or reservations or regulations or whatever else.

[Just Tom]

Free in CT so far on the AT or in any of the other backpacking areas the state offers, but I guess your point is that federal areas are safer from new fees being imposed? These days I'm not sure which is a safer bet, but you raise a fair point.

[greenmtnboy]

It doesn't take much in the way of resources to operate a public campground. I know of several operated on public land that contract with a campground host who mows the grass, cleans the restrooms and picks up the trash...all they get is a cut of the fees charged to campers. There is no reason to close a campground due to lack of funds. This is either very poor management or a deliberate attempt to blackmail voters/legislators into supporting an otherwise unpopular budget proposal. Same thing happened when all of the federal facilities were 'closed' due to budget issues. I saw lots of gates locked that led to areas that receive little to no maintenance at all and did not require public funds to keep them open during the short time supposed budget issues kept them closed. Some of those locked gates were on campgrounds like I described above, and the only people hurt by closing them were the campground host who could no longer collect camping fees and the campers whose vacation or weekend was ruined.
I've been to Macedonia Brook many times, also went to Devil's Hopyard as a Boy Scout. Two campground staff workers could do what is necessary to maintain M.B., revenue was $16-$26 per site minimum X over 50 sites, do the math. They had too many workers IMO.

[Traveler]

I've been to Macedonia Brook many times, also went to Devil's Hopyard as a Boy Scout. Two campground staff workers could do what is necessary to maintain M.B., revenue was $16-$26 per site minimum X over 50 sites, do the math. They had too many workers IMO.
You of course know due to layoffs, Macedonia Brook SP staff has been cut over the years to the point its difficult keeping the park office open to deal with camping reservations and check licenses. Personnel assigned there also perform required maintenance and attendant duties at other nearby State properties like Kent Falls. Given some of the "campers" I have seen there who apparently bring their annual household trash with them to scatter around, its a wonder they can keep the place looking as nice as they do.

[Bansko]

If you're a backpacker the "closed" isn't a concern. Maybe for car campers.

[greenmtnboy]

You of course know due to layoffs, Macedonia Brook SP staff has been cut over the years to the point its difficult keeping the park office open to deal with camping reservations and check licenses. Personnel assigned there also perform required maintenance and attendant duties at other nearby State properties like Kent Falls. Given some of the "campers" I have seen there who apparently bring their annual household trash with them to scatter around, its a wonder they can keep the place looking as nice as they do.

I have seen the staff increased over the years. Too many workers to do the minor tasks involved in running a campground, numerous dumpsters, maybe too many at a couple sites. A complaint I heard from the DEP which was tasked with running the campgrounds near Rt 7 was "too many chiefs" especially in state government. $15 or so an hour should be plenty for workers, but the DEP people are union paid so the guarantees make it a lot more expensive. Two able bodied people could do the rather nominal upkeep required in a campground, or they could offer work for stay options or have guest hosts like Vermont tends to do. No alcohol is permitted in the Constitution state campgrounds and parks as well.

[Venchka]

It matters so outdoorsmen can go backpacking and camping without fear of permits or fees or reservations or regulations or whatever else.

Except on the other coast.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[coach lou]

Connecticut couldn't care less about the outdoors or outdoor recreation. I have spent 1 night on the trail here and I haven't bought a fishing license here in 4 years. But hey, let us put up a new casino!

[Tipi Walter]

Connecticut couldn't care less about the outdoors or outdoor recreation. I have spent 1 night on the trail here and I haven't bought a fishing license here in 4 years. But hey, let us put up a new casino!

Good post. It's the vibe I'm getting, too.

[Old Grouse]

The following is not to dispute anything said above, but to add some perspective. Connecticut is one of the smallest states; it was one of the first settled; it has no high mountains; its biggest rivers were bounded by fertile valleys just begging to be plowed. By the 1880s the vast majority of its acreage was in agricultural use or on its way to urbanization. Teddy Roosevelt, the great creator of national parks, wasn't even a gleam in his parents' eyes when any remaining wilderness was gone from the state. It didn't have great swaths of land owned by a few timber magnates, which could later be acquired wholesale by a Percival Baxter-type Nutmegger.

In fact, the only facility in Connecticut operated by the National Parks Service is Weir Farm, once the home of American impressionist painter J. Alden Weir And by the way, some of Weir's major work consisted of paintings of thread factories in Willimantic CT. So no, we have no National Wilderness Areas, but we do have the only national park dedicated to art. So there! [Cue Yankee Doodle, Connecticut's State Song.]

[Alligator]

I see what greenmtnboy meant and it doesn't seem intentional. By itself the thread title can be interpreted to mean all the parks. That's the way I read it. And scant information of a timely nature on first look on the web regarding the budget situation and what was happening the day he posted. I know he linked the info but gov sites aren't always up to date, particularly when the budget is cut. Is this the expected situation for the rest of the state fiscal year which ends when? Meaning is there a budget now in place?

[Traveler]

I have seen the staff increased over the years. Too many workers to do the minor tasks involved in running a campground, numerous dumpsters, maybe too many at a couple sites. A complaint I heard from the DEP which was tasked with running the campgrounds near Rt 7 was "too many chiefs" especially in state government. $15 or so an hour should be plenty for workers, but the DEP people are union paid so the guarantees make it a lot more expensive. Two able bodied people could do the rather nominal upkeep required in a campground, or they could offer work for stay options or have guest hosts like Vermont tends to do. No alcohol is permitted in the Constitution state campgrounds and parks as well.
Thats odd, facts are there are over 200 fewer park maintenance/management positions today than there were a decade ago in the CT DEEP. The seasonal workforce has been cut some 45%, which has an impact on how well parks are maintained.

[bamboo bob]

They always lock the gates and layoff the PT workers so citizens think the state needs more money. They never ever layoff the assistant deputy directors and Associate assistant managers.

[greenmtnboy]

Thats odd, facts are there are over 200 fewer park maintenance/management positions today than there were a decade ago in the CT DEEP. The seasonal workforce has been cut some 45%, which has an impact on how well parks are maintained.

All I know is what I have seen since the 1990s when I saw one or two workers doing the upkeep at Macedonia and Housatonic Meadows. I camped several times a season at each at least each year and saw more workers and a transition to the D.E.P. running those parks which is a CT agency that is huge and has been overstaffed, a reason for the budget deficits. I spoke with a local Kent person who told me that a worker there looked at the books for Macedonia with $100K in income. That should be plenty to pay for a campground, and there a plenty of ways to economize with guest hosts and part time staff.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Ppf
All I know is what I have seen since the 1990s when I saw one or two workers doing the upkeep at Macedonia and Housatonic Meadows. I camped several times a season at each at least each year and saw more workers and a transition to the D.E.P. running those parks which is a CT agency that is huge and has been overstaffed, a reason for the budget deficits. I spoke with a local Kent person who told me that a worker there looked at the books for Macedonia with $100K in income. That should be plenty to pay for a campground, and there a plenty of ways to economize with guest hosts and part time staff.

The state currently has a budget deficit of approximately $3 billion dollars, primarily caused by the previous generation who chose not to fund the state's pension contribution for 40 years. Trying to blame it on a state park that you claim is overstaffed is simply incorrect. The total operating budget for state parks – including salaries, benefits and direct operating expenses – is about $18 million a year, and that is before taking into account funds generate through user fees, special events, and maintaining areas that create demand for fishing and hunting licenses.

[greenmtnboy]

I spoke with the state worker at Housatonic Meadows who said that under governor Ella Grasso, who died of cancer, the fees from the parks all went into the general fund instead of the parks being self-supporting. He said the decision was made at the end of the 2016 fiscal year in June. Kent Falls is very profitable, though not a campground, and rather unchallenging in my opinion. Housatonic Meadows has more advanced plumbing and shower facilities. Macedonia Brook has been a pretty low maintenance facility with composting toilets and no showers, but lots of hiking options. If the parks were made to be self-supporting then they could be justified.

[Just Tom]

I spoke with the state worker at Housatonic Meadows who said that under governor Ella Grasso, who died of cancer, the fees from the parks all went into the general fund instead of the parks being self-supporting. He said the decision was made at the end of the 2016 fiscal year in June. Kent Falls is very profitable, though not a campground, and rather unchallenging in my opinion. Housatonic Meadows has more advanced plumbing and shower facilities. Macedonia Brook has been a pretty low maintenance facility with composting toilets and no showers, but lots of hiking options. If the parks were made to be self-supporting then they could be justified.

Ella Grasso died in 1981, so this statement confuses me.

As a CT resident and taxpayer, my thoughts on this are "this is why I pay taxes". I want the state parks to be open, affordable, and in usable condition. Just like I want my roads to be plowed. Services to residents cost money. The plow driver doesn't pull up at the bottom of my street holding out a can waiting to be paid before he plows my street. I don't expect the plowing to be "self-supporting". That is why I pay taxes.

Of course, we all have a different set of items we want our tax dollars to go towards, hence "the politics".

[greenmtnboy]

Ella Grasso died in 1981, so this statement confuses me.

As a CT resident and taxpayer, my thoughts on this are "this is why I pay taxes". I want the state parks to be open, affordable, and in usable condition. Just like I want my roads to be plowed. Services to residents cost money. The plow driver doesn't pull up at the bottom of my street holding out a can waiting to be paid before he plows my street. I don't expect the plowing to be "self-supporting". That is why I pay taxes.

Of course, we all have a different set of items we want our tax dollars to go towards, hence "the politics".

The policy to have all park money go into the general fund/budget happened under Ella Grasso, so that's a policy matter. My point is that campgrounds like Macedonia and Devil's Hopyard made enough in fees to pay their way, no reason to shut them down.

[Just Tom]

Every year Malloy proposes cuts to popular programs to try to look like he cares about balancing a budget, knowing full well that everyone will complain, that way he can raise taxes again saying it was the peoples will.

Not really a fan...

[greenmtnboy]

If that is what he or other politicians are doing it is absolutely cowardly--hurts low income people, boyscout troops and others who enjoy our parks.

[jimmyjam]

http://www.ct.gov/deep/cwp/view.asp?a=2716&q=325038&deepNav_GID=1621%20

Macedonia Brook is closed for camping in 2017 due to their short-sighted budget. The A/T used to pass through there.

Well that suxs

[coach lou]

I can feel a heavyness in the noon day sun. Gentalpeople....I suggest we continue the disscusion of Connectitax at a campfire. And discuss what is open to camping along the 52 miles in our state!:D

[coach lou]

The shelters are on the National Trail corridor, and in Connectitax the AMC's local chapter does most of the upkeep, so I would not see that as an AT issue.


:rolleyes:......and dare I say there may be one , possibly two stealth sites in those 52 miles.

[Mountain Wildman]

Yes we do......three actually, one in Bridgeport, one in New Haven and one in Hartford.

Ha ha ha, now that is funny!!!

[greenmtnboy]

I spoke to my state representative about the issue last week and he seemed intent on bringing it up during the budget talks, but shutting down heavily used campgrounds, especially by boyscouts, like Macedonia and Devil's Hopyard is irrational. He wondered whether sponsorship by businesses like Auto Zone with their advertising "sponsored by" signs would be acceptable, and I said that raising the fees would also be ok just to get them open.

[LittleRock]

The name says it all, folks: If I want my hikes in the northern and southern Appalachians to Connect, I Cut through this state.

[adamkrz]

If you're a backpacker the "closed" isn't a concern. Maybe for car campers.

Your right - I've been camping along the blue trail system in CT. for years -( Metacomet -Mattabasset and Tunxis - Rarely see anybody and what little trash I find is easy to pack out.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Your right - I've been camping along the blue trail system in CT. for years -( Metacomet -Mattabasset and Tunxis - Rarely see anybody and what little trash I find is easy to pack out.
Have you done the Mohawk trail yet? I've done it twice now and it's amazing.

[greenmtnboy]

I did Mohawk trail once that must have been exceptional before Cathedral pines were knocked down, the AT going over Mohawk Mtn. through Corwall, (organic farmer and Cornwall selectman Gordon Ridgeway told me about some hikers from Europe who worked on his farm for a while), through ravines, etc. before the re-route due to nimby jerks.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I did Mohawk trail once that must have been exceptional before Cathedral pines were knocked down, the AT going over Mohawk Mtn. through Corwall, (organic farmer and Cornwall selectman Gordon Ridgeway told me about some hikers from Europe who worked on his farm for a while), through ravines, etc. before the re-route due to nimby jerks.
Yeah, I wish I had been able to hike that section back before the re-route (or seen what Cathedral pines looked like before the tornado), the section that is now the Mohawk is so much better that the re-route. The views from the lookout on Barrack? mountain and Coltsfoot mountain were phenominal, and I had never even heard about the amazing waterfall in Dean's ravine until we hiked right up to it.

In defense of the nimby's, as a CT local I assume you know some of the backstory regarding that area. Those particular landowners keep having problems to this day. Last time I was up there was on a perfect Sunday morning in April. We passed a total of probably two dozen people hiking up as we hiked Southbound towards dark entry road and the impression I got was that my hiking buddy and I were the only people on that mountain that weren't intent on turning off trail and trespassing.

[Mouser999]

Try backpacking the Nipmuck Trail from Mansfield Hollow to Bigelow. 2 remote camping spots along the rivers and 2 leantos in Bigelow and another camping spot by the reservoir

[coach lou]

Try backpacking the Nipmuck Trail from Mansfield Hollow to Bigelow. 2 remote camping spots along the rivers and 2 leantos in Bigelow and another camping spot by the reservoir

Willimantic River?

[linus72]

I love this thread. I spend 90% of my time on the A.T especially in CT, but I got my start on the Blue trails and there are some fantastic hikes along the traprock ledges of the M&M trails, as well as almost 1,000 miles of other great trails. I'm going to be finishing the Mohawk this fall and do some backpacking on it when my duties on the A.T. are less/off peak. Always looking for more spots to Backpack in CT. thanks for the recc on the nipmuck. I think there's also a lean to a family built on their property along the Mattabessett...

Sad about the state parks. Macedonia is a beauty, with incredible and rugged hikes that also include some of the original CT AT and its best views (Cobble Mtn and Pine just north have stunning views of the Catskills). As is Devils Hopyard. Going to be picking up the new Walk Book, thankfully its back to one volume!

[Just Tom]

Going to be picking up the new Walk Book, thankfully its back to one volume!
Mine arrives today! :banana

[Just Tom]

Actually, it has arrived already. It was sitting at the front door. It is a single book. I kind of liked the big maps of the old one and that it was a 3-ring binder so you could photocopy just the one you need for your current hike.

[greenmtnboy]

Thanks for the inputs; I also spoke with the CT state senator secretary for my area who wondered what is the advantage of having $0 revenue at a park like Macedonia or Devil's Hopyard? Makes no sense. So hopefully we will see some positive developments, it is vital to reach out to those who have the power to change things, the governor's secretary took down my complaint a month ago.

On an earlier issue the closing of the laundromat to hikers in Kent, I contacted a bunch of people on that in government and newspapers which resulted in some investigations and the re-opening, so you never know.

[linus72]

those walk book maps were great, but the two volumes made very little sense given the amount of overlap. if they could do a single volume binder with those maps that would be great.

[linus72]

kent just built a 'welcome center' a small building in town along the main road that has public restrooms and showers i believe. Haven't seen it in person though its as much to answer hikers needing a bathroom as the many other tourists...

[LazyLightning]

I'm new here and to trails in general but I plan on attempting an AT northbound threw hike next year and being from CT I've been making it a point to get out on the blue trails every chance I get, at least one good hike a weekend but I've been doing 2 (work mon-fri so 2 is pretty much the most I can get in a week). I started the New England Trail from the eastern Mattabesett section and the southern Menenkutuck section to the Lone Pine loop and now up to ragged mountain this coming weekend. Like I've heard from others, I was surprised how nice, scenic and diverse the trails have been through CT so far, even through such populated areas - only downer being only 3 campsites allowed on the trail. Lucky I live mid CT so I can section hike the whole CT part with under an hour drive but I hit the Rockland Preserve campsite and the Cattails Shelter to make use out of what I can, now theres only one left up in Granby...

The Mohawk Trail is huge on my bucket list for this year and I hear nothing but good things about it. Years ago with some buddy's we tried sneaking into "Dudley Town" where they have the problems by the Dark Entry Rd. area which is all I was interested in... now I have no interest in that and just want to go hike the trail! I see theres some lean to campsites on the trail I'm hoping to hit, looks like there free but they want you to reserve 2 weeks in advance.

sucks to hear about the campsites even though I'm not (yet) familiar with them ... not much else to add and I have no other state/trails to compare to but I've been pretty impressed so far with the blue trails in CT - those trap rock ledge walks have been amazing.

[One Half]

What's even more amazing is Connecticut doesn't have a single national forest. Heck even Texas has a national forest.

Texas has 4 National Forests and 2 National Grasslands and 2 National Parks.

[greenmtnboy]

CT is a tiny state compared to many of the others, I guess we should be grateful for what we do have, beaches, the trails and "civilization". The state is resolving the budget, not sure if anything was decided on the campgrounds. A lot of gambling money and hedge funds, corporations, etc. have declined substantially. The state economy is poor, almost like an addict going off constant infusions that gets cut off.

[Old Grouse]

CT is a tiny state compared to many of the others, I guess we should be grateful for what we do have, beaches, the trails and "civilization".

Right. See my post # 13 early in this thread. Comparisons are pointless.

[Traveler]

CT has a fairly well managed, robust trail system compared with a lot of other states. Regardless where in the State one is, they are not more than a few minutes drive from a trail system that can deliver many miles of hiking in different terrain. Having worked in places where long drives to trail systems of significance like Texas, I've a much greater appreciation of the trail system in CT.

[greenmtnboy]

Good book, I went through it years ago and did a lot of hikes: https://www.amazon.com/50-Hikes-Connecticut-Walks-Berkshires/dp/0881504963

The Hardys talked about how on some hikes on the AT the decaying hulks of the American chestnut trees were still visible in the 1970s from the blight of the 1930s.

There are usually ways to slealth camp with or without a car and I have zero concern about the laws about this in a sterile society with little robust vigor addressing basic needs of the people. Just exercise due caution and common sense and leave no trace enjoying the great outdoors.

[DavidNH]

It is really too bad that Connecticut can't or won't allocate the funds to keep beautiful places like Macedonia Brook State Park open for 2017. I was born and raised in Connecticut and have very fond memories of camping at this park with my Dad when I was very young. NW CT is absolutely beautiful.

I wouldn't get too upset that CT doesn't have any wilderness areas. It is a small state afterall. Mass doesn't have wilderness areas either far as I know.

And don't even get me started about the state of Texas. I'll simply say that the rest of the country would be better off if the Lone Star state were to go its own way and become its own country.

[greenmtnboy]

Closed campgrounds = no revenue, what every state wants. Too much reliance on gambling revenue in the latest budget talks.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Closed campgrounds = no revenue, what every state wants. Too much reliance on gambling revenue in the latest budget talks.

Do we even get much gambling revenue? The casinos are on tribal land that is tax exempt land I thought all we
got was a pittance from the slot machines due to a contract signed by the state.

[Traveler]

Do we even get much gambling revenue? The casinos are on tribal land that is tax exempt land I thought all we
got was a pittance from the slot machines due to a contract signed by the state.

Thats pretty much the case, the current talks have a lot of speculation about them but are short on specifics regarding percentage of slot machine and other revenues. Then there is the local property tax issue that gets pretty complicated with tribal use. I doubt there's much in that pot of gold at the end of the gambling rainbow, regardless of what casino promoters would have anyone believe. Revenues going to the State don't do a lot for the communities that shoulder the social costs of gambling, which make it an unattractive industry to a lot of folks.

[Grampie]

Public parks close because of escalated costs to run & maintained them. Government looks at this mas a pantica. They can say they are trimming costs and saving labor costs. Closing camping at a state camp ground does next to nothing to achieve this. State employees, with union support, have driven up the state labor costs to the degree all state workers are well above private sector pay and bennifit scale. The state unions want workers to take ,sick time off to insure that other workers can work overtime to increase their earnings that increase there pension rate.
Part time summer help, which would work at a far Lowe rate are not even affordable any more. The answer is to privatetise the running of state parks And getting the state out of the businless.

[greenmtnboy]

Privatization would develop into commercialization and raising the camping fees on a par with private campgrounds, not what the public needs. There are solutions but the gov. as others have observed is using a popular outdoor resource as a political scapegoat. It reminds me of this verse: http://biblehub.com/isaiah/5-8.htm