View Full Version : Chlorine Bleach for H20 Drinking
Wolfclan
01-29-2006, 20:13
I have heard of a few people using house hold bleach to purify their water. Does any one know how many drops to add to a quart of water and how long it needs to sit? Also, has any one used this method?
Of all the ways to treat water, bleach is the worst.
Panzer
Just Jeff
01-29-2006, 20:20
Search the archives...there are several threads that deal with this in detail. I think there's a thread in the articles section, too.
Lone Wolf
01-29-2006, 20:27
Why screw up perfectly pure mountain water with a nasty chemical. Just Drink.
Wolfclan
01-29-2006, 20:59
I did just drink the water in 78 when I did my through hike. I have been using a pump but it is heavy. I would like to drop weight. I never got sick, I have been drinking from a well all my life, but my partner back then was sick with the runs for 3 months.
Just Jeff
01-29-2006, 21:43
Check out Aqua Mira...much lighter than a pump.
well water doesn't get contaminated by bacteria/viruses very easily, running water and lakes do. Bleach users have the highest rates of giardia on the AT of any treatment method (excepting 'no treatment').
Blue Jay
01-29-2006, 22:21
IMO bleach is worse than no treatment because it kills the "good" bacteria in your stomach making you less likely to fight any "bad" bacteria that might show up.
Mr. Clean
01-30-2006, 07:08
Bleach, or sodium hypochlorite, combines with the organics in the water to form cancer causing compounds called trihalomethanes and haloacetic acids. Long term use of this on the AT could leave you in pretty bad shape. If you don't want to drink straight from the stream or filter your water, use one of the other methods. I filter, personally, since I've seen whats in the water and I don't like the looks of it.
Two Speed
01-30-2006, 07:16
Along the lines of what Panzer1 said, everything I can find on bleach disinfection indicates that bleach is only recommended for disaster victims as an expedient method. Boat load of problems with the concept. The biggest two are all chlorine processes can form carcinogenic compounds in contact with organics, which means you really need to filter anyway and the concentration of the bleach is problematic. If you want to read more on the subject there's a really good article in the "Featured Articles" section on this website and you can find plenty on it on FEMA's and the CDC's websites.
FWIW, I'm treating less and less of the water I drink. YMMV.
minnesotasmith
01-30-2006, 07:59
I'd suggest the following guidelines:
1) Use one drop per pint of water, or two if you've got seriously turbid (cloudy) water. Note that bleach is rough on rubber and plastic (of a type that is not intended to be chemically resistant to bleach) over time; glass is preferred for handling bleach.
2) Put water you are going to use through a funnel and coffee filter beforehand, whatever you use (I do this), as getting the twigs, silt, insect corpses, leaves, etc., out of water makes any subsequent chemical treatment more reliable.
3) Use only Clorox brand (no generics) liquid bleach in the blue containers (not the yellow ones that have fragrance).
4) Allow more time for cold water to be disinfected.
5) Let hypochlorite-treated water have some time that it is open to the air before drinking it if possible; heating it and/or vigorously shaking/stirring it will also help remove the lousy taste from the bleach.
6) Try to minimize or avoid bleach coming into contact with any metal, even stainless steel (it corrodes it).
7) Seriously consider giving up the idea of using bleach, and use Aqua Mira as I do. It's about 12 bucks for 2 tiny bottles that treat 30 gallons very effectively and leave far less aftertaste than does bleach. Note that a chlorine dioxide source such as AM is totally different in every way (operating principle, effectiveness, aftertaste, etc.) from a hypochlorite such as bleach, despite the similiar-sounding names.
Lone Wolf
01-30-2006, 08:01
8) Just drink the water. Your chances of getting sick are slim.
chemicals can't be good for you. anything over a 6 month period would build high levels of said chemical in your body. bad.
read the warning on the bottle of bleach, harmful if swallowed, avoid prolonged contact. bad.
some water filters add a chemical treatment, some don't. prolonged exposure to iodine. bad.
now why would i put that in my perfectly good spring water?
Tha Wookie
01-30-2006, 09:18
I've heard to use 2 drops a quart.
But damn that is nasty. I drink straight. Sometimes I filter, if I know that Lone Wolf has been on the trail ahead of me.;)
Lone Wolf
01-30-2006, 09:24
I love you too.:)
gargamel
01-30-2006, 10:14
Bleach users have the highest rates of giardia on the AT of any treatment method (excepting 'no treatment').
How do you know this? Are there any studys regarding this topic? If so I would love to get to know the source. Thank's.
Bleach users have the highest rates of giardia on the AT of any treatment method (excepting 'no treatment').
Bleach, or sodium hypochlorite, combines with the organics in the water to form cancer causing compounds called trihalomethanes and haloacetic acids. Long term use of this on the AT could leave you in pretty bad shape.
8) Just drink the water. Your chances of getting sick are slim.
Giardia? Cancer? Chances of getting sick? Given the choices here I think I'll follow L. Wolf's advice. Only I'll carry an extra roll of toilet paper just in case.
I thruhiked last year (2005) and used bleach to purify my water. I used 2 to 3 drops per liter and increased to 4 drops per liter if the water was questionable. With 2 exceptions, I always treated my water and never had a problem in 130 days.
i drank some water treated with bleach on accident once. it was immediately noticeable and burned my throat.
chemicals can't be good for you. anything over a 6 month period would build high levels of said chemical in your body. bad.
the stuff in Aqua Mira is what's used in a lot of municipal water supplies... since i've been drinking city water most of my life, i guess i have a lot of whatever purifies it in my body. i prefer good well water, but that's not an option most places i've lived... so i'll settle for something i'm already injesting.
the stuff in Aqua Mira is what's used in a lot of municipal water supplies... since i've been drinking city water most of my life, i guess i have a lot of whatever purifies it in my body. i prefer good well water, but that's not an option most places i've lived... so i'll settle for something i'm already injesting.
i wonder, if you already have the chemical in your system, will your body self treat itself for a while? not trying to be a jerk, i'm truely curious.
Just Jeff
01-30-2006, 19:46
No. Iodine and ClO2 (AM's active ingredient) must treat the organisms before you ingest it. It's not effective if you drink before the treatment period, and your body can't store it for later treatment.
That would be a helluvan invention, though. Take a pill in the morning and never worry about treating your water.
Wolfclan
01-30-2006, 20:13
Thanks, I have the aqua mira so I guess I will just use it. I do recall one spot in NY back in 78 where I had to get my water out of a puddle with misquito lava swimming in it. I was thursty, I like the pump for spots like that.
The fatality rate for hikers that purify their water with bleach is 100%. Every single one of them die. While it does take some of them sixty or eighty years to die no one can dispute the fact that all of them die. Bleach is a real killer. If you want to be safe go to your local cathederal and stock up with holy water to bring on the trail with you. Ultra lites can just lick the dew off leaves in the morning.
mweinstone
01-30-2006, 23:16
id like to remind people goin out with the miox,...its not to late to get a filter. miox is a bleach maker. its for emergency urban survival to treat sink water your unsure of during a crissis.i own one and would never ever bring it to the wilderness anywhere anytime. its for short term use and is awfil tasting.anyone who tastes nothing simply is not healthy enough to truly taste the bleach flavor.mmmmmmmmmmmmm.......filter flavor.
I've drank water straight from the source and not gotten sick, but I'm not going to be around to hold your shirt tail up while you are sick with the s**ts.
At least carry some sort of chemical treatment, even if you don't use it. Even those horrible iodine tablets might come in handy if you have to drink suspect water.
I'm a NY'er, and have been drinking chlorinated tap water for almost fifty years.
I used the bleach method for 2700 miles and never had a problem. The times I did treat, I would use one drop per quart and two if its a really bad source. Its really easy to use, and anyone who drinks city water is exposed to bleach as it is. Plus the price is right for us cheap skates.
I've heard to use 2 drops a quart.
But damn that is nasty. I drink straight. Sometimes I filter, if I know that Lone Wolf has been on the trail ahead of me.;)
If you call the company that owns the clorox brand (my hiking buddy did), they'll tell you to use 4 drops per quart. Personally, (and it's the first thing Minnesota Smith and I agree on!) I use aqua mira.
Steve
I only treated water 10 times over 1500 miles this summer. In the highlands and a few times out of beaver ponds. We actually met a woman testing water quality of water sources along the trail as we were headed into Erwin. She said she didn't feel the need to treat her water either. I think you are more likely to get sick from some shmoe not cleaning thier hands after a privy stop and then yoging some trail mix than you are from most of the water along the AT. Except maybe in Catawba...
Nightwalker
01-31-2006, 05:07
well water doesn't get contaminated by bacteria/viruses very easily, running water and lakes do. Bleach users have the highest rates of giardia on the AT of any treatment method (excepting 'no treatment').
Where'd you come up with that one?
In 2000 a fellow hiker told me he never filtered water if it came from a piped spring. I was with him in southern Virginia and he filled his nalgene, took a long pull off it, and hiked on. I started to fill mine but noticed a strange odor so I decided to check the source out, I went up the hill and just a few feet there was a stream with a dam and the other end of the pipe. A dead dog, just rotted flesh and bones was laying in the middle of the strean next to the intake pipe. In the smokies I found a dead pig, again half rotted, in the bushes about 20 feet from the spring. I found a rope in the shelter and did drag the dead pig a couple of hundred feet into the woods. In both cases I left notes by the springs so hikers behind me to filter their water. The hiker who drank the "dog water" was off the trail two days later but I never did find out if illness was the reason he went home. Lone Wolf is correct, most water is safe, but there are exceptions.
Lone Wolf
01-31-2006, 10:02
Putting bleach in spring water is like putting a lemon/lime slice in a beer. ******s it up.
Two Speed
01-31-2006, 10:14
. . . I started to fill mine but noticed a strange odor so I decided to check the source out, I went up the hill and just a few feet there was a stream with a dam and the other end of the pipe. A dead dog, just rotted flesh and bones was laying in the middle of the strean next to the intake pipe. In the smokies I found a dead pig, again half rotted, in the bushes about 20 feet from the spring. . .Never hurts to look around, use your sense of smell, look for campsites immediately upstream of the source, etc. FWIW, in the case of the dead dog lying in the water there are two problems: 1) Bleach, Aqua Mira, Potable Aqua, etc. might not kill all the infectious organisms if they're really heavily concentrated unless you really upped the dosage, and 2) What killed the dog? If possible I'd pass on that water source. Failing that I'd probably boil the stew out of it, and I sure as heck wouldn't drink any more of it than I absolutely had to.
Just Jeff
01-31-2006, 11:20
Where'd you come up with that one?
74% of all people make up their own statistics.
icemanat95
01-31-2006, 11:38
id like to remind people goin out with the miox,...its not to late to get a filter. miox is a bleach maker. its for emergency urban survival to treat sink water your unsure of during a crissis.i own one and would never ever bring it to the wilderness anywhere anytime. its for short term use and is awfil tasting.anyone who tastes nothing simply is not healthy enough to truly taste the bleach flavor.mmmmmmmmmmmmm.......filter flavor.
This is not true. There is a difference between bleach (sodium hypochlorite) and the mixed oxidants that the MIOXX produces. Mixed oxidants are sodium, chlorine and ozone as seperate elements, not Sodium Hypochlorite, which is a compound of the three. Break those bonds and you've got totally different effects.
minnesotasmith
01-31-2006, 13:03
Putting bleach in spring water is like putting a lemon/lime slice in a beer. ******s it up.
Yeah. The beer really kills the great taste of the lemon. :D
Beer is yeast pee; distill any booze you want pure enough to drink. (Look at a chromatogram of beer sometime if you don't believe me.)
...Runs for cover... ;)