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johnny quest
01-30-2006, 13:43
no, this isnt an invite to wednesday covered dish supper at the smoky mountain primitive baptist church of the bleeding heart. here is my question:

you are on the a.t. secion hiking, thru-hiking, i dont care. you are 5 hours from a road. what is your plan if you are bitten by a poisonous snake?

bigmac_in
01-30-2006, 13:53
Start hiking my a_ _ out of there immediately. And hope my hiking buddy, Canteen Boy, can help. There is really nothing else you can do, except try to use a cell phone and call ahead for help to meet you when you get to the road, if you have a cell phone with you and it works.

One other thing - if you are good on a map you could get off the trail and bushwack toward help. Sometimes that is closer. Of course it could mean more trouble if you start getting very sick. I'd only do this if it would cut several hours off your time to get help.

general
01-30-2006, 13:56
bites from rattlers and copperheads are rarely deadly. you could, however, loose a finger or toe. one should probably make it to the nearest road, calmly, trying not to raise ones blood pressure too much, and get to the doc as soon as possible.

Kerosene
01-30-2006, 14:25
Apply a light tourniquet above the bite and start walking, slowly, towards civilization. Ideally I would stay on the AT given its traffic volume and my stated itinerary, but I'd check my map to see how easy it is to bushwhack or take a side trail out. I'd look to keep my pack with me if at all possible, just in case I got too sick to make it all the way and had to fend for myself.

vipahman
01-30-2006, 14:53
...There is really nothing else you can do, except try to use a cell phone and call ahead for help to meet you when you get to the road, if you have a cell phone with you and it works. 1. Tie a tourniquet above the affected area, not too tight to starve the area of blood but tight enough to slow the blood flow back to the heart. Stuff sack cords, bear bag rope, tent guy lines, velcro tape or strips of clothing are among some of the available options for a tourniquet.
2. Squeeze the venom/blood out of the immediate bite area if possible. Clean and bandage the area.
3. Then get out your cell phone and start hiking to the nearest road. Kerosene's option of bushwhacking is great but you could also end up off-trail and unreachable if you pass out. It's a judgement call.

I almost stepped on a rattler by accident about 5 months ago but it didn't budge. By the time I heard my friend's warning, I was 2 steps away. They are actually quite docile unless provoked.

Jack Tarlin
01-30-2006, 15:56
Vipah's advice above is pretty good.

Luckily, there simply aren't that many places where you're more than 5 hours from a road or crossing anymore.

And there are all sorts of dirt roads, paths, jeep trails, and other marked trails that might get you out of the woods faster.

If it's a real emergency, you might consider stashing your pack somewhere to save weight/time, or have other hikers carry it for you if they're around.

This is yet another reason to bring along current trail maps, in case you, or the person that goes ahead for help, leaves the established Trail. (And if DON'T have a map, be very cautious about leaving the Trail, or there will be two people in trouble and not just one).

Lastly, while a cell phone can be a great help, or even a life-saver, in an emergency situation, don't take them for granted: You may not be able to reach anyone; you might be in an area where they don't work; you could have battery or other system failure. If you're off the Trail and you don't have a map, you may not be able to give a definite description of your whearebouts (And if you're the guy who's rushed ahead to bring back help, be ABSOLUTELY sure where the injured party actually is!). In short, a phone can be a great help, but don't let it be your only line of defense in an emergency. Preparedness; woodcraft and backwoods knowledge; proper planning and proper gear; and plain commmon sense will usually be what wins the day in an emergency.

dje97001
01-30-2006, 16:37
This is from the NIH:
First Aid
1. Keep the person calm, reassuring them that bites can be effectively treated in an emergency room. Restrict movement, and keep the affected area below heart level to reduce the flow of venom.
2. If you have a pump suction device (such as that made by Sawyer), follow the manufacturer's directions.
3. Remove any rings or constricting items because the affected area may swell. Create a loose splint to help restrict movement of the area.
4. If the area of the bite begins to swell and change color, the snake was probably poisonous.
5. Monitor the person's vital signs (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002341.htm) -- temperature, pulse (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003399.htm), rate of breathing, and blood pressure (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003398.htm) if possible. If there are signs of shock (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000039.htm) (such as paleness (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003244.htm)), lay the victim flat, raise the feet about a foot, and cover the victim with a blanket.
6. Get medical help immediately.
7. Bring in the dead snake only if this can be done without risk of further injury. Do not waste time hunting for the snake, and do not risk another bite if it is not easy to kill the snake. Be careful of the head when transporting it -- a dead snake can bite from reflex for up to an hour.
Do Not
DO NOT allow the victim to become over-exerted. If necessary, carry the victim to safety.
DO NOT apply a tourniquet.
DO NOT apply cold compresses to a snake bite.
DO NOT cut into a snake bite with a knife or razor.
DO NOT try to suction the venom by mouth.
DO NOT give the victim stimulants (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002308.htm) or pain medications (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002123.htm) unless instructed to do so by a doctor.
DO NOT give the victim anything by mouth.
DO NOT raise the site of the bite above the level of the victim's heart.

Sly
01-30-2006, 16:51
Luckily, there simply aren't that many places where you're more than 5 hours from a road or crossing anymore.
Luckily, if you're bitten, injured, or it's hot, cold, raining, snowing and want to get out of the weather, or you're thirsty or hungry.

Otherwise, it's a shame.

Rain Man
01-30-2006, 17:06
One other thing - if you are good on a map you could get off the trail and bushwack toward help. Sometimes that is closer. Of course it could mean more trouble if you start getting very sick. I'd only do this if it would cut several hours off your time to get help.

This is just one more reason to carry a map and compass at all times.

Hate to say it, but often the AT runs parallel to a road, or just over a ridge line from civilization, giving more the illusion of being way out in the wilderness than you really are. Plus, often you don't face bushwhacking, but merely taking the appropriate side trail. A map will tell you that, while the AT itself may go for miles before it actually crosses a road or civilization.

But then, snake bite is one of those totally false blown-all-out-of-proportion fears on the AT.

Rain:sunMan

.

Peaks
01-30-2006, 18:23
Certainly the Jack's and DJE's posts are right. However, the way to prevent getting bit is not to harass the snake in the first place. Very few, if any reports of snake bites along the AT in recent years. And those that do get bit, it is usually because someone harassed the snake.

johnny quest
01-30-2006, 19:30
peaks, i know your not supposed to harass snakes and i dont...cause im scared to death of them. but you are just going to have to believe that i have an uncanny ability to run into definitely unfriendly snakes.

PartnerShip
01-30-2006, 21:12
I am terrified of them and they seem to come out wherever I go. My biggest fear of hiking the AT. I usually try to stay away from where I know they will be because I am terrified , poisonous or not.
I just read another thread here and heard of snake gaiters sold by cabeles. for $119. I will definately get a pair. Not sure how to put link on here but I can email you the link. And otherwise I will watch where I sit or step up without using my hiking poles to go before me.

vipahman
01-30-2006, 21:58
Do Not
DO NOT allow the victim to become over-exerted. If necessary, carry the victim to safety.
DO NOT apply a tourniquet.
DO NOT apply cold compresses to a snake bite.
DO NOT cut into a snake bite with a knife or razor.
DO NOT try to suction the venom by mouth.
DO NOT give the victim stimulants (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002308.htm) or pain medications (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002123.htm) unless instructed to do so by a doctor.
DO NOT give the victim anything by mouth.
DO NOT raise the site of the bite above the level of the victim's heart.
I don't understand the NO tourniquet part. :confused: Could somebody explain?

BTW, sucking the venom by mouth is quite commonly done in Indian villages. It's cobra country. And it's also common for the sucking to be done by someone other than the victim. I agree with all the other DO NOTS.

Alligator
01-30-2006, 22:18
...I don't understand the NO tourniquet part. :confused: Could somebody explain?

...
Swelling is common so tourniquet plus swelling may rapidly cut off blood flow and damage the limb.

Footslogger
01-30-2006, 23:15
How's this for "Snake Handling" ? In 2003 during my thru the register at Cove Mtn Shelter in PA had many entries about a snake that was living in the fire ring and would slither out at night and into the shelter. Lot of comments indicated that the shelter was being avoided because of the snake. I had some previous experience capturing snakes and thought I'd try and grab/relocate the snake with the help of a couple other hikers.

We began lifting stones from around the fire ring and before too long the snake made its presence known. I managed to pin the snake down and grasp it behind the head. After the photo's were all taken and I was declared "certifyable" by the other hikers, I walked the snake out in the woods and released it.

I was almost renamed "SnakeSlogger" that day.

See the next post for the better picture ....

'Slogger

Footslogger
01-30-2006, 23:23
Here is the other picture from that day. For some reason it wouldn't upload in the last message ...

'Slogger

BW2006
01-31-2006, 22:59
Does anyone ever get bitten while thru hiking?

digger51
01-31-2006, 23:19
I have met several rattlers, a few copperheads, and a couple of water moccasins. Only one rattler snapped at me and he didnt really try to bite. Snakebites are rare and usually caused by either lack of caution or by dummies playing with the critters. Just watch where you put your hands and where you sit and you should have no problems.

SGTdirtman
02-22-2006, 23:58
I've been bitten by a western diamondback rattler, A Timber rattler, and once by a northern copperhead... Although I needed antivenom for both rattlesnake bites very minimal doses and no long term damage occured, I didnt even go to the hospital for the copperhead bite.

trying to run off the trail to get help is only going to hurt you worse, walking slow, staying calm, and keeping your heart rate down is whats going to save you. also keep drinking tons of water...

Most snake bites are from people not being smart and trying to pick up snakes. they are usually extremely reluctant to bite... Last year i stepped directly on a timber rattlesnakes tail by accident and he didnt bite. I wouldnt recommend anyone trying to move a venomous snake even if its on the trail unless they know what they are doing.

btw: my bites all occured while working for animal control not hiking.

saimyoji
02-23-2006, 00:09
Please show us pics of the scars from the cytotoxic venom due to the bites.

Yes, I am sceptical.

saimyoji
02-23-2006, 00:13
Yes, I am sceptical.....of no long term damage....

My experience with rattlers is that there is always permanent damage, no matter how seemingly inconsequential.

Never underestimate a rattlesnake or copperhead. Your reaction to the venom may be different from someone else's. Treat all wildlife with respect.

Dirtman: I do respect your work as an animal control person...if that was your real job....:D

ed bell
02-23-2006, 00:14
How's this for "Snake Handling" ?

'Slogger

I would say it's damn good!:cool: Good technique, photos, and thanks for relocating mr. rattler instead of killing him/her. You tha man 'Slogger.:sun

Lone Wolf
02-23-2006, 06:27
I've been attacked and mauled by a Grizzly, Panda and Black bear.

general
02-23-2006, 18:41
i got bitten by a koalla once. damn shin biters.

Pacific Tortuga
02-23-2006, 18:57
I've been attacked and mauled by a Grizzly, Panda and Black bear.


I would bet they were all females,cosmic justice lives. ;)

c.coyle
02-23-2006, 19:39
Here is the other picture from that day. For some reason it wouldn't upload in the last message ...

'Slogger

:eek: I am impressed! Black phase timber rattler. Usually pretty laid back creatures, but I wouldn't have had the cajones to pick him up. Is that the same snake in both photos?

Footslogger
02-24-2006, 00:28
:eek: I am impressed! Black phase timber rattler. Usually pretty laid back creatures, but I wouldn't have had the cajones to pick him up. Is that the same snake in both photos?
======================================
Yes it is. And despite the phase it was pretty agressive. From what I read in the register it had crawled into the shelter several nights and scared the bejebers out of some hikers. Once I pulled enough rocks away from the fire ring and exposed the snake it coiled and made a couple lunges and then tried to retreat lower in the rock structure. After what I had gone through to locate the snake I had made up my mind that I was going to see the project through. I'll admit that my heart rate was a tad elevated at several points during the ordeal. But in the end I was able to pin it down and get a hand on it's neck.

I saw more rattlers in 2003 than the law allows but this was the only one I know of that was harassing hikers.

'Slogger

mjaynes288
02-28-2006, 01:26
Don't try to suction venom by mouth especially from someone else because the venom can be absorbed by the lining of your mouth. Most venom causes swelling then tissue destruction. Swelling in the mouth can cause problems breathing. Then there is an even more immediate problem.

irritable_badger
02-28-2006, 13:41
no, this isnt an invite to wednesday covered dish supper at the smoky mountain primitive baptist church of the bleeding heart. here is my question:

you are on the a.t. secion hiking, thru-hiking, i dont care. you are 5 hours from a road. what is your plan if you are bitten by a poisonous snake?

You can electrocute yourself. Very effective at neutralizing almost all snake venoms. You can do it with an electric livestock fence which (in the South anyway) is never too far away and it's pretty much impossible for it to seriously injure you. Prolly a good idea to go on to the doctor though.

Also the snake handling churches are called "Church of God with Signs Following" just in case you ever see one. :D