View Full Version : G*d D**n PCTers
gwschenk
06-26-2017, 09:30
Pack out your damn TP!! And bury your turds!
Seatbelt
06-26-2017, 10:06
I thought they are supposed to pack out the turds on the PCT as well??
AllDownhillFromHere
06-26-2017, 10:07
I thought they are supposed to pack out the turds on the PCT as well??
On Whitney. Everywhere else is pack out your TP. Which a completely unscientific poll showed that I was the only one doing that.
Seatbelt
06-26-2017, 10:24
On Whitney. Everywhere else is pack out your TP. Which a completely unscientific poll showed that I was the only one doing that.
Ok thanks for the clearification.
gwschenk
06-26-2017, 13:38
I wish they'd all go back to the AT so they can use the privies. Obviously, these people have no freaking concept on how to **** in the woods. The PCT is becoming one big sewer.
Sasquatch!
06-26-2017, 21:36
Handling poop paper is disgusting, and a great way to spread disease. Bury your poopy butt paper with your poop. It's paper. Packing it out smears your poop on plastic and that poop smeared plastic ends up in the trash. Trash isn't a great place for poop to go. Poop, and things with poop on them, should go in the ground, or in a toilet.
If you want something to freak out about worry about deet, permethrin, microplastics, flame retardants, and water repellents. This is the stuff we leave along the trail that has the most impact. We don't see it, so it's not there. =p
Explain that to The Man. Rule Makers always think they know best.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
garlic08
06-26-2017, 23:12
A few years ago I hiked the PNT, which shares a few miles of the PCT in the Pasayten Wilderness. I was looking forward to seeing a bit of the PCT again, but in those few miles I saw blossoms of TP all over the place. I share the OP's disgust.
TP blossoms are becoming a major problem on the popular trails. I did a weekend of trailwork on the CT. Unlike last year's project, I did not find a "surprise" under a rock. But the maintainers were actively cursing all the TP found on that, and other, CT sections.
AllDownhillFromHere
06-27-2017, 08:41
Handling poop paper is disgusting...
Have you done it, and had a bad experience? or you personally find it disgusting, or are you simply saying this because it's poop and it's taboo and therefore everyone should be grossed out by it?
On the PCT this year I didn't find it disgusting at all; you use the TP, roll it into a self-contained little ball, and put it into your separate ziploc bag, the one that never goes IN your pack, the one with POOP written on it. If you see poop, or it gets on the inside of your ziploc, you're doing it wrong. Then, a few days later when you're somewhere with a toilet, you simply dump the little balls of TP out into the toilet, and flush. Easy peasy. The stuff does NOT biodegrade, and even in the desert, getting a nice, deep cathole is tough (rocks, roots, etc). Talking with the maintainers and angels who pack out the TP, tampons, and shriveled poops, it's a serious problem, so do your part.
Traveler
06-27-2017, 09:52
Handling poop paper is disgusting, and a great way to spread disease. Bury your poopy butt paper with your poop. It's paper. Packing it out smears your poop on plastic and that poop smeared plastic ends up in the trash. Trash isn't a great place for poop to go. Poop, and things with poop on them, should go in the ground, or in a toilet.
If you want something to freak out about worry about deet, permethrin, microplastics, flame retardants, and water repellents. This is the stuff we leave along the trail that has the most impact. We don't see it, so it's not there. =p
Many hikers manage that process without issue, perhaps you should learn how to handle TP without getting its contents all over you. There are fairly simple management techniques that can be and are used daily by a great number of people to ensure paper waste is removed to avoid it being dug up by others or animals that will increase the likelihood of illness in those who pass by. The incidence of disease from this waste is well documented globally and beyond debate.
Of course chemicals in the environment are a serious concern, however I have not seen any information on the residual effects of someone passing along a trail wearing DEET or having their clothing treated with permethrin. If any scientific information exists I would like to see that. Conflating this with human waste contact is rather like comparing the dangers of driving cars and skydiving.
HooKooDooKu
06-27-2017, 10:01
Have you done it...
Most of my hiking is done in GSMNP where burying TP is the norm (soil if VERY organic). So when I was planning a JMT thru hike, it was initially a moment of disgust when I learned I would need to pack out my TP.
But one of the surprises of my hike was how much packing out TP was NOT a big deal at all.
All it took was some practice at home to minimize TP quanity, pairing it with flushable wipes.
In my case, I fold the paper (rather than ball it). But the results are the same... you never touch anything you don't normally touch at home... and you never see really see anything once you put it away.
nsherry61
06-27-2017, 10:16
. . . Of course chemicals in the environment are a serious concern, however I have not seen any information on the residual effects of someone passing along a trail wearing DEET or having their clothing treated with permethrin. . . Conflating this with human waste contact is rather like comparing the dangers of driving cars and skydiving.
How could I resist:
According to the United States Parachuting Association, there are an estimated 3 million jumps per year, and the fatality count is only 21 (for 2010). That's a 0.0007% chance of dying from a skydive, compared to a 0.0167% chance of dying in a car accident (based on driving 10,000 miles).Sep 15, 2011
Of course, these statistics are being presented in a pretty biased manner since most people that skydive, I expect, do more than one jump per year, whereas the average person probably drives about 10,000 miles per year. If I read this right, at 24 jumps per year, and 10,000 miles driven per year, the odds become equal.
But then, if we compare time spent engaged in the activity, and the average sky dive lasts about one minute and the average driving speed is 30 mph, then then skydiving becomes about 1000 times more dangerous than driving. . . so how likely is one to die from skydiving vs. driving to the trail-head vs. being eaten by a bear? :-?
lonehiker
06-27-2017, 11:13
How could I resist:
According to the United States Parachuting Association, there are an estimated 3 million jumps per year, and the fatality count is only 21 (for 2010). That's a 0.0007% chance of dying from a skydive, compared to a 0.0167% chance of dying in a car accident (based on driving 10,000 miles).Sep 15, 2011
Of course, these statistics are being presented in a pretty biased manner since most people that skydive, I expect, do more than one jump per year, whereas the average person probably drives about 10,000 miles per year. If I read this right, at 24 jumps per year, and 10,000 miles driven per year, the odds become equal.
But then, if we compare time spent engaged in the activity, and the average sky dive lasts about one minute and the average driving speed is 30 mph, then then skydiving becomes about 1000 times more dangerous than driving. . . so how likely is one to die from skydiving vs. driving to the trail-head vs. being eaten by a bear? :-?
I've always thought that comparing any activity to driving a bit absurd as most people that participate in other activities usually drive, or are at least passengers and in as much risk, as well. It's not like I am a skydiver (or whatever) and you are a driver but rather I am a skydiver that also drives... But, back to the black bear thread and the idiotic posts going on over there.
Old Hillwalker
06-27-2017, 11:21
I subscribe to the technique the Scott Haze uses in one of the opening sequences of the movie "Child of God". Good old Cormac McCarthy's writing style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9vSmiw36Io
MuddyWaters
06-27-2017, 11:23
Assume proper squat that spreads cheeks
Collateral damage is minimized
Wipe arse with natural material
And you only need a couple square to polish
And they are pretty clean
Oatmeal also does wonders
Eating it, that is
I also share OP disgust.
My favorite backcountry poop clinic (Mike Clelland!) . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwmwxkD86Ec
Mike Clelland! - liberate yourself from TP http://ultralightbackpackintips.blogspot.com/2012/09/liberate-yourself-from-toilet-paper.html
Andrew Skurka poop instructions http://andrewskurka.com/tag/how-to-poop-in-the-outdoors-woods-perform-backcountry-bidget/
nsherry61
06-27-2017, 11:51
Assume proper squat that spreads cheeks
Collateral damage is minimized
Wipe arse with natural material . . .
I'm still at a loss as to why people think they need TP, or even "natural material" for that matter, when water works so well. But, if we can't train N. Americans to manage their TP in the back country, I can't imagine ever getting them trained to clean their back side with water instead. Maybe all Americans should be required to live a year in India or France before being allowed in the back country. :-?
I'm still at a loss as to why people think they need TP, or even "natural material" for that matter, when water works so well. But, if we can't train N. Americans to manage their TP in the back country, I can't imagine ever getting them trained to clean their back side with water instead. Maybe all Americans should be required to live a year in India or France before being allowed in the back country. :-? +1 to the water (with a tiny bit of soap). Also prevents chaffing, monkey butt and diaper rash.
AllDownhillFromHere
06-27-2017, 12:12
I'm still at a loss as to why people think they need TP, or even "natural material" for that matter, when water works so well. But, if we can't train N. Americans to manage their TP in the back country, I can't imagine ever getting them trained to clean their back side with water instead. Maybe all Americans should be required to live a year in India or France before being allowed in the back country. :-?
India IS the back country.
Be careful, you might fall off that horse of yours.
The OP is observing this disgustingness not only because the PCT numbers have exploded but IMO because many of the inexperienced and ignorant are now choosing the PCT as their first LD hike rather than the AT. In 2008 and 2009, the yrs of a PCT NOBO thru-hike and 2/3 PCT thru-hike I experienced very little of this on the PCT proper. Back on the AT it was regular occurrence.
+1 to the water (with a tiny bit of soap). Also prevents chaffing, monkey butt and diaper rash.
Are you saying that after a poop you use your bare hands and water ("with a tiny bit of soap") in lieu of toilet paper to clean yourself???
I also share OP disgust.
My favorite backcountry poop clinic (Mike Clelland!) . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwmwxkD86Ec
Mike Clelland! - liberate yourself from TP http://ultralightbackpackintips.blogspot.com/2012/09/liberate-yourself-from-toilet-paper.html
Andrew Skurka poop instructions http://andrewskurka.com/tag/how-to-poop-in-the-outdoors-woods-perform-backcountry-bidget/
Good stuff DLP.
TexasBob
06-27-2017, 13:29
I'm still at a loss as to why people think they need TP, or even "natural material" for that matter, when water works so well.....
+1 to the water (with a tiny bit of soap). Also prevents chaffing, monkey butt and diaper rash.
This is why you don't shake hands with hikers.
I thought they are supposed to pack out the turds on the PCT as well??
Anza-Borrego State Park is also supposed to be "Pack it ALL out!" in addition to Whitney
The OP is observing this disgustingness not only because the PCT numbers have exploded but IMO because many of the inexperienced and ignorant are now choosing the PCT as their first LD hike rather than the AT. My first backpacking trip was in Yosemite in 2010. Yosemite Rangers are darn near militant on packing out toilet paper when you pick up your permit. So on my first trip... I was initiated by Yosemite Rangers. I've actually seen very little TP in Yosemite, because the rangers do a great job on educating backpackers in this super high use area. I haven't been on the PCT/JMT in Yosemite... so I can't tell you what the TP is like there.
The PCTA is also attempting to educate people on packing out TP.
https://www.pcta.org/2017/thru-hiker-lint-ultralight-trowel-49043/
I met an AT thru hiker (the Brain) and he said that he only dug two cat-holes the whole AT hike. He said that he used outhouses the whole way. I thought that was amazing! We don't have a lot of outhouses, here in the West (with the exception of the very urban Pt Reyes or Ohlone Wilderness). I've also seen a couple of outhouses (minus the house!) in SEKI.
Are you saying that after a poop you use your bare hands and water ("with a tiny bit of soap") in lieu of toilet paper to clean yourself???
Favorite natural wipes:
Old Man's Beard (the plant, not human hair...:) ) rehydrated in water. Like a soft sponge. :)
Corn Flower Leaves - I started feeling guilty pulling leaves, and don't use it any more.
Thimbleberry leaves... but don't use anymore. Feel guilty.
The right sized rock.
Followed up by soap and water (and hand sanitizer, for good measure).
Not a fan of snow, pinecones and sticks...
I've changed a lot of diapers and also washed cloth diapers. People sometimes get poo on their hands.
I'm out 30-ish nights a year. I have never gotten giardia or other poo borne illnesses. But I do thoroughly wash my hands.
PS... It used to be acceptable to bury trash in the backcountry. It isn't now.
Perhaps someday it will be as normal to carry out TP as it is to carry out other trash. With enough education, one can hope!
I wish they'd all go back to the AT so they can use the privies. Obviously, these people have no freaking concept on how to **** in the woods. The PCT is becoming one big sewer.
oh, if you think that is bad, try mount Fugi
just think of it this way:
anymore that place is so crowded that no one goes there anymore
Uncle Joe
06-27-2017, 23:04
Are you saying that after a poop you use your bare hands and water ("with a tiny bit of soap") in lieu of toilet paper to clean yourself???
Yeah that's not happening. I seriously doubt water is sufficient. Poo's are like taxes. They require paperwork.
PatmanTN
06-28-2017, 07:25
I haven't tried it yet myself but I've heard from female hikers that swear by small spray bottles of water as the main tool and then use minimal TP as follow up. I've tried to envision how this might work (should have asked) but I'm assuming they are spraying from the front which I can't see working for a man due to hanging obstructions. I guess if a man were balanced correctly they could move the obstructions long enough to blast the water. I don't know....
Anza-Borrego State Park is also supposed to be "Pack it ALL out!" in addition to Whitney
My first backpacking trip was in Yosemite in 2010. Yosemite Rangers are darn near militant on packing out toilet paper when you pick up your permit. So on my first trip... I was initiated by Yosemite Rangers. I've actually seen very little TP in Yosemite, because the rangers do a great job on educating backpackers in this super high use area. I haven't been on the PCT/JMT in Yosemite... so I can't tell you what the TP is like there.
The PCTA is also attempting to educate people on packing out TP.
https://www.pcta.org/2017/thru-hiker-lint-ultralight-trowel-49043/
Favorite natural wipes:
Old Man's Beard (the plant, not human hair...:) ) rehydrated in water. Like a soft sponge. :)
Corn Flower Leaves - I started feeling guilty pulling leaves, and don't use it any more.
Thimbleberry leaves... but don't use anymore. Feel guilty.
The right sized rock.
Followed up by soap and water (and hand sanitizer, for good measure).
Not a fan of snow, pinecones and sticks...
I've changed a lot of diapers and also washed cloth diapers. People sometimes get poo on their hands.
I'm out 30-ish nights a year. I have never gotten giardia or other poo borne illnesses. But I do thoroughly wash my hands.
Yes, the Y NP Rangers make determined efforts to educate visitors about appropriately discarding their excrement. Despite the valiant educational efforts it doesn't always work. People don't always do what they know they should be doing! AND, they don't really care! The trail from Little Yosemite Valley CG up to Half Dome, and to some extent at LYV CG(a HIGHLY used CG), despite their being a composting toilet there last time I went through, contained many piles of stacked rock, sticks and leaves with human excrement and TP squeezing out from underneath. Atop Half Dome I wouldn't advise to go "gem" hunting under suspiciously obvious displaced piles of rock. Right below the diving board area is a small ledge with many piles of displaced rock and crevices I would not explore. I've twice witnessed children urinating into the small spring near the base of HD despite both the children and their parents just seeing others gather drinking water from the same spring. Even at Glacier Pt where bathrooms exist has always been filthy despite Rangers janitorial efforts with dirt and excrement on the floors every time I've been there. This promps many a gal to take a more hygienic dump behind the bathrooms(porta potties last time I was there) easily distinguished by the use trails of curiously beaten down brush to TP flowers and piles of excrement. Four times up Half Dome with all four times a mother letting her child take a leak or taking a crap just outside the cables despite the crowds watching and despite Rangers stating the only bathroom between LYV and the top of HD was at LYV. I've seen several times children having their genitals and arses being washed off by their parents of urine and feces in the stream at LYV CG. And yet we think it is wildlife that causes all these hygiene issues? IMHO, this is yet another example of the consequences that arrive from some human culture and philosophy that considers humanity separate from and above Nature as if humans are not a part of Nature or so far evolved above Nature that we see Nature as our doormat.
Unfortunately exposed poo and TP is becoming more commonplace on any popular trail.
PatmanTN
06-28-2017, 20:29
Unfortunately exposed poo and TP is becoming more commonplace on any popular trail.
Indeed it is. It's just unbelievable... A couple weeks ago while on the Mountains To Sea Trail east of Black Balsam road where the trail hits a stunning lower spur of Black Balsam knob (before descending to Graveyard Fields junction) I was drawn out to the rocky knob with the intention of throwing down, having lunch and kicking back to admire the view for a while. While still in the swinging-off-the-pack motion I turned to see two large piles of human feces with big wads of tp layered atop of them. I mean, aside from the idea that a beautiful view makes you want to crap (?), how could you be such a jerk as to ruin the spot for others?
And sadly, whoever did it was there long enough to make two piles, so it was probably a backpacker.