View Full Version : Results of a recent study about reusing water bottles
oldwetherman
06-29-2017, 22:02
http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/healthtrending/why-you-should-never-refill-a-plastic-water-bottle/ar-BBDstni?li=AA5LBhu&ocid=spartandhp
MSN. Really?
Common sense hygiene would work without all the sensationalism.
Wayne
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greenmtnboy
06-29-2017, 22:16
It all depends on the bottle--soft plastic vs. hard plastic without the estrogen compounds you get with some of them. Also bacteria only multiply if there is direct unhygienic contact with bad bacteria, it must be in the mouth to begin with then multiply badly. Probably for millennia people had exposure to far worse, Indians still drink water out of the Ganges. They've built up antibodies over time.
saltysack
06-29-2017, 22:19
Other than backpacking I don't use plastic single use water bottles.....one of the stupidest most wasteful things our society does....the waste stream this creates is disturbing and needless......plastic grocery bags and water bottles piss me off.......end of rant...
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TexasBob
06-29-2017, 22:40
The article is originally from Cosmopolitan. Not exactly a respected source of scientific information.
MuddyWaters
06-29-2017, 22:57
I did my own study
It said that if its safe to drink any water thats been stored in that bottle up to a year
Then its safe to drink water I put in only an hour or two ago
Each subsequent use will leach out less than previous time as concentrations decrease. Regardless of time. If anything, pour out the first water that come in it and immediately refill with fresh.
And any bacteria.....came from my own mouth.....so I not too worried
I don't care where the article was linked. Open a plastic water bottle and take a swig. Cap it back up. Leave it on the window sill. See what usually happens. Uncap it even if there's no mold in it. Pour the supposedly straight water into a clear clean drinking glass. Look at the water closely. Smell the bottle and the supposedly clean water.
I ask do you think it's worth disinfecting water bottles, bladders, and cookware plastic or otherwise, BPA containing or BPA free, at in town resupply stops? Ever notice how grungy people let themselves and gear get on a hike even acting proudly how filthy they can get? Don't have to be a Germaphobe to have some sense of hygiene on trail. Maybe just maybe the diseases, sicknesses, and contaminations witnessed spread on trails has something to do with human behavior more than other root causes they're often attributed?
DownEaster
06-29-2017, 23:52
And any bacteria.....came from my own mouth.....so I not too worried
Mostly I agree with you. I would point out that you're probably also using that bottle to back-flush your water filter, and cleaning the bottle beforehand is a good idea.
cmoulder
06-30-2017, 05:59
I've been using a couple of 20-oz Gatorade bottles for 2-3 years. I use liquid AquaMira so I disinfect them every time I treat water. Wash them out at home with detergent and dry them in sunlight. No problem. ;)
Gotta love these hysterical articles in magazines.
peakbagger
06-30-2017, 06:36
I treat my water with Aquamira in my water bottles. If it kills the potential nasties in the water source I am not to worried about the residual nasties in the bottle.
Good thing they didn't test hydration bladders!
Weekly clean with a bleachy solution and all is well. Been reusing the same gatorade and powerade bottle for three years.
hikermiker
06-30-2017, 07:27
"Or you could just do the sensible thing and buy one of those Love Island water bottles. That would save you a whole load of fuss."
I wonder who sponsored that!
The article is originally from Cosmopolitan. Not exactly a respected source of scientific information.
"The horror" [emoji1][emoji106][emoji41]
Wayne
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Rain Man
06-30-2017, 08:27
What SaltySack said!
Other than backpacking I don't use plastic single use water bottles.....one of the stupidest most wasteful things our society does....the waste stream this creates is disturbing and needless......plastic grocery bags and water bottles piss me off.......end of rant...
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Traveler
06-30-2017, 08:53
Nice ad for Love Island bottles. Was there something else there?
This is making me laugh. I used the same smart water bottle during my whole thru hike. Did it get grungy? yes. Did I get sick? no. Did I wash it every once in a while? yes. Did I buy some sort of bleach, sanitizer, special stuff to wash it with? no. As clean as you think you are on a thru hike.....you are filthy. Just stop with this nonsense already.
Mugthumper
06-30-2017, 10:54
This ad has been brought to you by Love Island Water Bottles.
My wife, my kids and myself all use polyethylene Nalgene water bottles daily. The same bottles have been in use for years. Anyone who has kids knows that the amount of backwash that they have every time they eat and take a drink is enough to make you think twice about ever drinking after them. They will occasionally get really grungy. Each bottle has their name on it and I can say with confidence that my children have never been sick from their own germs.
I do however reuse 20 oz gatorade bottles and smart waters on the trail over an over again with no perceptible taste or changes in my health. I'd rather reuse the same bottle multiple times and fill with fresh spring water than constantly buy replacements that have water that has sat in hot warehouses and in the back of semis being transported all over the country. You can actually taste the plastic in some newly opened bottles if they have been overheated or sat in the sun.
The article is originally from Cosmopolitan. Not exactly a respected source of scientific information.
As an aside I have not seen a Cosmopolitan cover without the word SEX on it in all the yrs I've glanced at the cover.
TexasBob
06-30-2017, 11:29
As an aside I have not seen a Cosmopolitan cover without the word SEX on it in all the yrs I've glanced at the cover.
The cover makes for interesting reading while standing in the checkout line at the grocery store. :rolleyes:
saltysack
06-30-2017, 11:48
As an aside I have not seen a Cosmopolitan cover without the word SEX on it in all the yrs I've glanced at the cover.
Reminds me of the comedian Jay Hickman the "Pussy Preacher"....don't let her read Cosmopolitan.....https://open.spotify.com/track/2uAIqpMnpTjRM190BYl9ji
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Sarcasm the elf
06-30-2017, 12:09
If the author thinks this that these "chemicals" are something to be terrified of, then I hope they never learn about the treatment and bottling processes that the water goes through before it gets into the tap or bottle. (oh the horror :dance)
Snowleopard
06-30-2017, 14:59
I looked into this when the article came out. First, comparing the bacteria in these bottles to bacteria on toilet seats is ridiculous. It has been long established that toilet seats (and toilet bowls) have far less bacteria than kitchen sinks or kitchen sponges! :) This specific article is not useful.
From what I could find out, there are potential problems with reusing the plastic bottles from bottled water, soda or gatorade. They are designed for a single use and are fine for that. The bottled water is sterilized before or during the bottling process, so for the first use bacteria should not be a problem. BPA is not present in these bottles, so that is not a concern. However, other chemicals present in the plastic will leach into the water, especially after the bottle has been reused repeatedly. The concentrations will be greater when the bottle has been reused enough times to put cracks or crinkles into the surface or when hot liquids are put into it. Whether these chemicals are harmful in the long term or not is mostly unknown; it simply hasn't been studied much. Reactions between these chemicals and bleach or Aqua Mira type chemicals will occur; not much is known about that safety. About all we can say now about resusing these bottles is that people haven't been dropping dead after the first swallow, or even after a year or two.
The bacterial question is somewhat easier. Reuse will cause bacterial growth in the bottles. How much of a problem this will be depends on the kind of bottle and how it is being cleaned. The really thin crinkly water bottles probably should be replaced frequently and should be cleaned carefully. Some of the slightly thicker bottles (from some brands of soda or water or Gatorade), seem to maintain their structure and surface better; my guess is that these could be used longer. Regular hiking bottles have insides that are generally smoother and will remain so, so there are no micro-crevices for bacteria to colonize. I find that they are also easier to clean, especially wide mouth bottles like the classic Nalgene.
For me, the bottles that potentially could be the worst are the ones I use every night by my bedside. I am replacing these with cheap ($7) insulated steel bottles. I have an uninsulated steel bottle; the problem with that it gets too hot to hold if I clean it with hot water -- that is why I'm trying these insulated bottles (too heavy for hiking). I have had one narrow neck Nalgene bottle that I used every night until it became too gross. Not even boiling water ungrossed it enough to use again.
For day hikes I'll use the thin water bottles a few times. For longer hikes I'll use light Platypus bottles or Nalgene bottles. I'll clean my home bed side bottles more religiously.
Sorry this got so long, it's too humid out here to hike.
Another Kevin
06-30-2017, 15:11
If the author thinks this that these "chemicals" are something to be terrified of, then I hope they never learn about the treatment and bottling processes that the water goes through before it gets into the tap or bottle. (oh the horror :dance)
Yeah. I always have an inward "***?" moment at people worrying about aluminum leaching from cookware, without knowing how much aluminum their municipal water supply is putting in the water. A very common flocculation process (removing particulates) is to alkalize alum Al₂(SO₄)₃•14H₂O with ammonia NH₄OH or another alkali, precipitating gelatinous Al(OH)₃ and carrying the particles away with it. With most municipal water supplies, you get a lot more aluminum in your drinking water than you do from any possible leaching from cookware.
Worrying about chloramine, ozone, or whatever in water treatment chemistry is mostly in the same category - it's a lot better than what would be in the water otherwise!
What I do: carry both a Sawyer Mini and Aqua Mira. Make sure that I use the Aqua Mira every few days to break up any biofilm on the surface of my water containers. Use AM-treated water to backflush the filter. Water containers can be practically any what-have-you bottle (I carry one Nalgene with an insulating jacket for hot beverages, and otherwise usually have Platypus bottles or discarded beverage bottles.
Oh, and the best thing to put in your water to stay healthy on the trail is soap - to wash your hands. (FAR more important than anything having to do with drinking water.) Hand sanitizer is OK if water is scarce, but at the very least, you should be washing before handling food, after Deuteronomy 23:13, and after handling stuff that's touched by a lot of other people (such as register books or well-placed scrambling handholds).
As an aside I have not seen a Cosmopolitan cover without the word SEX on it in all the yrs I've glanced at the cover.
We have witnessed a miracle.
A single sentence post. No mention of food, nutrition or veganism.
Well done Dogwood!
Grinning.
Wayne
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I looked into this when the article came out. First, comparing the bacteria in these bottles to bacteria on toilet seats is ridiculous. It has been long established that toilet seats (and toilet bowls) have far less bacteria than kitchen sinks or kitchen sponges! :) This specific article is not useful.
From what I could find out, there are potential problems with reusing the plastic bottles from bottled water, soda or gatorade. They are designed for a single use and are fine for that. The bottled water is sterilized before or during the bottling process, so for the first use bacteria should not be a problem. BPA is not present in these bottles, so that is not a concern. However, other chemicals present in the plastic will leach into the water, especially after the bottle has been reused repeatedly. The concentrations will be greater when the bottle has been reused enough times to put cracks or crinkles into the surface or when hot liquids are put into it. Whether these chemicals are harmful in the long term or not is mostly unknown; it simply hasn't been studied much. Reactions between these chemicals and bleach or Aqua Mira type chemicals will occur; not much is known about that safety. About all we can say now about resusing these bottles is that people haven't been dropping dead after the first swallow, or even after a year or two.
The bacterial question is somewhat easier. Reuse will cause bacterial growth in the bottles. How much of a problem this will be depends on the kind of bottle and how it is being cleaned. The really thin crinkly water bottles probably should be replaced frequently and should be cleaned carefully. Some of the slightly thicker bottles (from some brands of soda or water or Gatorade), seem to maintain their structure and surface better; my guess is that these could be used longer. Regular hiking bottles have insides that are generally smoother and will remain so, so there are no micro-crevices for bacteria to colonize. I find that they are also easier to clean, especially wide mouth bottles like the classic Nalgene.
For me, the bottles that potentially could be the worst are the ones I use every night by my bedside. I am replacing these with cheap ($7) insulated steel bottles. I have an uninsulated steel bottle; the problem with that it gets too hot to hold if I clean it with hot water -- that is why I'm trying these insulated bottles (too heavy for hiking). I have had one narrow neck Nalgene bottle that I used every night until it became too gross. Not even boiling water ungrossed it enough to use again.
For day hikes I'll use the thin water bottles a few times. For longer hikes I'll use light Platypus bottles or Nalgene bottles. I'll clean my home bed side bottles more religiously.
Sorry this got so long, it's too humid out here to hike.You can clean the thin neck nalgenes with rice and dish detergent.
Sarcasm the elf
06-30-2017, 19:06
You can clean the thin neck nalgenes with rice and dish detergent.
I use a baby bottle brush, works great.
Mugthumper
06-30-2017, 19:09
I use a baby bottle brush, works great.
I'll second this. Baby bottle brushes make cleaning narrow mouth bottles easy.
Sarcasm the elf
06-30-2017, 19:15
I'll second this. Baby bottle brushes make cleaning narrow mouth bottles easy.
Now I just need to find something that can clean the drinking tube on a 3L Camelbak.
davesailer
06-30-2017, 19:55
Sort-of related: "the SODIS method (http://www.sodis.ch/methode/index_EN) is ideal for treating water for drinking in developing countries. All it requires is sunlight and PET bottles."
They have an illustrated poster (http://www.sodis.ch/methode/material/flyer_poster/poster_steps_d.pdf) (PDF) in German and French but not in English.
Might be handy if you lose your treatment filter/drops/pills some day but still have your chemical-leaching water bottle.
Another Kevin
06-30-2017, 20:06
Now I just need to find something that can clean the drinking tube on a 3L Camelbak.
Camelbak sell a brush for that. Really. I broke down and got one.
Sarcasm the elf
06-30-2017, 20:23
Camelbak sell a brush for that. Really. I broke down and got one.
I could be wrong, but I thought the kit they sold (or at least the kit in 2009) wasn't long enough to clean the full length of the hose on the 3L model.
Another Kevin
06-30-2017, 20:48
In could be wrong, but I thought the kit they sold (or at least the kit in 2009) wasn't long enough to clean the full length of the hose on the 3L model.
Even with the 2 l one, I find I have to take off the bite valve and go from both ends.
saltysack
06-30-2017, 21:28
In could be wrong, but I thought the kit they sold (or at least the kit in 2009) wasn't long enough to clean the full length of the hose on the 3L model.
Story of my life.......bout an inch to short.....[emoji51]
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Did anyone ever think about touring cyclists and plastic water bottles?
Wayne
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BuckeyeBill
06-30-2017, 21:54
Story of my life.......bout an inch to short.....[emoji51]
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That's what she said. JK Maybe:-?
TX Aggie
06-30-2017, 22:56
Wow, how did our species ever survive before glassware and dishwashers.
Imagine what you would find in the water bladders used by any family prior to 1800.
What a bunch of idiots.
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We have witnessed a miracle.
A single sentence post. No mention of food, nutrition or veganism.
Well done Dogwood!
Grinning.
Wayne
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Don't have to gain attention with a complicated post when the word SEX is used and is capitalized Bruce East Texas Wayne. :p;)
Kitchen sink garbage disposals and sometimes kitchen sponges or towels are a bacteria haven...as well as many thru-hiker's mouths. OMG, think some folks never heard of a toothbrush or soap.
Did anyone ever think about touring cyclists and plastic water bottles?
Wayne
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Actually, YES. I found used cycling bottles not washed/cleansed with nothing but containing water after every trip and a couple wks before my next cycle to get nasty.
FreeGoldRush
06-30-2017, 23:33
Replace Smart Water (Gatorade, whatever) bottles at each town stop or resupply. Problem solved.
Replace Smart Water (Gatorade, whatever) bottles at each town stop or resupply. Problem solved.
That's really great. Kinda kicks the whole green, sustainability, renewable mantra in the derrière.
My old tired brain is beginning to see the very real environmental benefits of the decades old buy it once use it forever Nalgene bottle.
Wayne
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This is no different than using a Nalgene bottle. You just have to clean it. The article cited an athlete who refilled a bottle for a week and it was then found to be full of germs. So the solution is to clean the bottle, not necessarily throw it away. I've always used gatorade bottles as my water bottles...would be pretty easy to boil water for cooking your dinner, pour it into the empty gatorade bottle, swish it around a bit and then pour it back into your cook pot to finish making dinner...now you have a clean and sterilized bottle.
I'd be willing to bet that water bottles are a significant factor in norovirus...maybe even more significant than the often blamed shared bag of trail mix.
I drink tons of water at home, and try to keep grab and go water in fridge for myself and kids. I save all my small beverage glass bottles (Snapple, kombutchi, whatever) wash in hot soapy water, dip in bleach solution (about 1 tbsp per gallon) let dry and fill with tap water run through a Britta filter. Lemon or strawberry or mint or herbal tea bag in bottle - tasty and better than the soda they would otherwise drink.
On trail I use cheap refillable smart water or Gatorade bottle. Not best. After reading this I will make conscious effort to replace my plastic bottle every week / resupply on trail and between trips. Maybe the bpa free bottle is worth the weight.
I was considering getting one of those uv light wands as a purifying method to use both at home and traveling. Does anyone have info on how they effect the inexpensive plastic? I currently use the drops for purification.
I seem prone to low grade sore throats and fevers for over a year now and need to tighten my game. Dr is treating me for "hot flashes" but this doesn't explain sore throats and temp fluctuations. Hormones don't help. Neg for Lyme. I'm conscerned I have picked up something exotic.
BTW, intelligent article in cosmo? Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and again, and besides- how can you have great sex if you are barfing and pooping from a water bottle illness?
Never mind.
Wayne
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Offshore
07-01-2017, 16:18
The article is originally from Cosmopolitan. Not exactly a respected source of scientific information.
Read before reacting. Cosmopolitan didn't do the research, they are reporting on the research done by others. Criticizing Cosmopolitan makes no sense at all.
Offshore
07-01-2017, 16:39
This is no different than using a Nalgene bottle. You just have to clean it. The article cited an athlete who refilled a bottle for a week and it was then found to be full of germs. So the solution is to clean the bottle, not necessarily throw it away. I've always used gatorade bottles as my water bottles...would be pretty easy to boil water for cooking your dinner, pour it into the empty gatorade bottle, swish it around a bit and then pour it back into your cook pot to finish making dinner...now you have a clean and sterilized bottle.
I'd be willing to bet that water bottles are a significant factor in norovirus...maybe even more significant than the often blamed shared bag of trail mix.
Unless you are sticking a noro-contaminated finger in the bottle or contaminating the drinking surface, I'd think the trail mix is the easier way to transmit from hiker to hiker.
The difference between single-use and reusable bottles is that reusable bottles are designed to reused. You see this both in terms of the type of plastic used (in the case of Nalgene) and the cleanability of the bottle (wide mouth, smooth interior, curved transition from wall to base). Single use bottles are designed to use the least amount of the cheapest FDA approved plastic that will do the job. Cleanability doesn't enter the picture. Single use bottles often lots of ridges and facets molded in to provide structural integrity for the thin plastic which create difficult-to-clean nooks and crannies. But like anything else, different people will have different standards for sanitation.
A while ago someone posted a picture of a filthy Smartwater bottle, taking pride in the fact that they had used it for a very long time. To me, that's just idiocy.
I've bin filling plastic gallon jugs with drinking water from a spring for over 40 years . I guess I'm lucky to b alive.
Thom
Replace Smart Water (Gatorade, whatever) bottles at each town stop or resupply. Problem solved.
Yes, it is very problematic for Smartwater when their bottles are refilled rather than a consumer spending another $2 to obtain a product that is otherwise abundant and free.
I'd be interested in a comparative study which revealed the global effects on health from the original manufacture of the each bottle and how that effect would be reduced by decreasing the number produced by perhaps, reusing each bottle several times. Then again, who would fund that study.
I use a baby bottle brush, works great.
I'll second this. Baby bottle brushes make cleaning narrow mouth bottles easy.Tried 4 different bottle brushes and still had issues getting in certain places. I use a 2L nalgene that is square at the base as well and the corners were really rough to clean at the top. Rice, water, and detergent cleared it right up. But glad to hear the bottle brushes worked for you both!
cmoulder
07-01-2017, 18:33
I've bin filling plastic gallon jugs with drinking water from a spring for over 40 years . I guess I'm lucky to b alive.
Thom
Yeah, I think I'll just continue using the same Gatorade bottles and Platys that I've been using the last few years. :)
With Aqua Mira they get disinfected every time I use them.
TexasBob
07-02-2017, 10:19
Read before reacting. Cosmopolitan didn't do the research, they are reporting on the research done by others. Criticizing Cosmopolitan makes no sense at all.
If you want to get your health recommendations from places like Cosmo that is your business but don't kid yourself that this article is based on scientific research. Read it carefully yourself. The primary source is Treadmill Reviews and Cosmo isn't even using info directly from that source but is quoting an article in another publication (Metro) as their source. Do you think Treadmill Reviews is an expert in water safety? This has all the hallmarks of bogus science and sensationalism.
Offshore
07-02-2017, 14:40
If you want to get your health recommendations from places like Cosmo that is your business but don't kid yourself that this article is based on scientific research. Read it carefully yourself. The primary source is Treadmill Reviews and Cosmo isn't even using info directly from that source but is quoting an article in another publication (Metro) as their source. Do you think Treadmill Reviews is an expert in water safety? This has all the hallmarks of bogus science and sensationalism.
Calm down - to quote you (in case you forgot) "This article is originally from Cosmopolitan...blather..blather...blather".
I pointed out that you were wrong to cite Cosmopolitan as the source - nothing more, nothing less. I am well aware from reading the linked article that what they were reporting was from another source via another source. However, I offered no opinion on the claim about reuse of water bottles. You inferred that - and you did so incorrectly.
You are either being intentionally dishonest or unintentionally misleading in giving the impression that the information should be ignored because it came from Cosmopolitan when, in fact, it was merely cited there. In either case, you're wrong. Critical reading and facts matter, even in Texas.
Sarcasm the elf
07-02-2017, 17:35
Tried 4 different bottle brushes and still had issues getting in certain places. I use a 2L nalgene that is square at the base as well and the corners were really rough to clean at the top. Rice, water, and detergent cleared it right up. But glad to hear the bottle brushes worked for you both!
Ah, I understand now. I was talking in the context of smaller cylindrical bottles. I could see the difficulty in trying to clean a 2L bottle with square walls.
Frankly, I would have more concern over being attacked by a Mountain Lion or Bobcat than drinking water out of a clean, used water bottle. Sloger
Frankly, I would have more concern over being attacked by a Mountain Lion or Bobcat than drinking water out of a clean, used water bottle. Sloger
....or walking under a meteorite.
Wayne
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TexasBob
07-03-2017, 13:39
............. Critical reading and facts matter, even in Texas.
Apparently not in New Jersey.
It all depends on the bottle--soft plastic vs. hard plastic without the estrogen compounds you get with some of them.
Is reusing gatorade bottles for the last 5 years why I'm growing a sweet pair of man boobs?
Unless you are sticking a noro-contaminated finger in the bottle or contaminating the drinking surface, I'd think the trail mix is the easier way to transmit from hiker to hiker.
Shake hands with someone with norovirus...touch the shelter register...touch the handle to the door to the privy, etc, etc...then you put your hand around the cap to your water bottle and twist it off...I'd bet the places your hand touch the bottle will overlap with where you put your mouth.