Bsp

[Hiker4Jesus]

https://thetrek.co/appalachian-trail/baxter-state-park-places-limits-thru-hiker-permits/

https://www.backpacker.com/trips/could-the-appalachian-trail-lose-katahdin

Has anyone else heard/read about BSP AT hiker cap? Im with ATC.

[Venchka]

Isn't this subject a year or two old? It has been discussed here.
Wayne


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[Sarcasm the elf]

It's been the subject of much discussion and colorful debate on this forum:

https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/123073-Baxter-State-Park-Thru-hiker-Limits?highlight=Baxter+permit

Info for southbounders:

https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/122984-Sobos-it-s-time-to-call-Baxter-and-make-your-2017-camping-reservations!?highlight=

[Venchka]

450 2017 SOBO reported so far.
Wayne


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[Lauriep]

The Appalachian Trail Conservancy has developed FAQs for the new Baxter permit system:

http://appalachiantrail.org/home/explore-the-trail/thru-hiking/bsp-permit-limit-faqs


The main thing to remember in advance of arriving:


Stop in at the visitor center in Monson (new location this year, right in the middle of town), at the beginning of the "100 Mile Wilderness." You can get all the details you need to know for Baxter and your climb of Katahdin. The staff will help you make your plan. The visitor center stays in close communication with Baxter, so they will be up on the latest.

During July, August and nice weekends in September, sometimes all the regular, reservable campsites are full. From sometime in August through September, the long-distance hiker site, The Birches, often fills up as well (it accommodates only 12). So during those times, you might have to wait outside the park at Abol Bridge a day or two to get an overnight site, or enter as a day visitor from the Togue Pond Gate from Millinocket.

In September, it can help to plan your climb of Katahdin mid-week if you can or at least avoid Saturday. In July and August, the park is pretty much at full capacity every day.

If the A.T. permits run out, you will still be able to climb Katahdin as a "thru-hiker," but you'll need to enter via the park's main entrance as all other visitors do. If the permits do run out--at all--, it probably wouldn't be until October. If you will be arriving at Katahdin late in the season, budget extra time and funds for the logistics required to enter as a regular visitor instead of via the A.T.

It might be a good idea for every hiker to allow extra time, and probably funds as well, in case you have to wait for a camping space to become available or get a shuttle to Millinocket.

[imscotty]

Laurie,

Can you answer a question for the purists out here. If I arrive at Abol Bridge and the permit quota is reached....

1) Can I hike from Abol to Katahdin Stream and out again to fill in this leg, or is stepping into the park without a permit forbidden?

2) If I obtain the day use permit at the Togue Pond Gate am I allowed to come back to Abol Bridge and then hike to Katahdin Stream from this location?

3) If I did #2, I would then need to leave the park, and obtain a second day use permit the following day to finish my hike from Katahdin Stream to the peak and out. Am I understanding this correctly?

Thank you,
Scott

[TJ aka Teej]

Thanks, Laurie.
Another tip for nobos: Avoid a Labor Day weekend finish. Katahdin Stream is booked to capacity for a Native American gathering. The lot will be closed, and hitching out will be tough since no one is leaving. Also - the Abol Pines and Abol Bridge campgrounds will be full, or near to it.
More tips:
The Nobo’s guide to Baxter and Katahdin for 2017 (https://baxterinfo.wordpress.com/2016/12/07/first-blog-post/)

[rickb]

On a positive note, those Thru Hikers planning to finish in September or October will get to enjoy the thier hikes up the Hunt Trail (AT) at a time when it sees fewer people.

Here are the number of hikers of all kinds that climbed Katahdin via the AT (Hunt Trail) in 2015:

July - 3805
August - 4388
September. - 2892
October - 1632

Not sure what percentage of thru hikers finish in the 2 off-peak months vs how many contribute to the (relatively) crowded trails in July and August, but putting aside any concerns about the quota, a later finish has its advantages.

[map man]

On a positive note, those Thru Hikers planning to finish in September or October will get to enjoy the thier hikes up the Hunt Trail (AT) at a time when it sees fewer people.

Here are the number of hikers of all kinds that climbed Katahdin via the AT (Hunt Trail) in 2015:

July - 3805
August - 4388
September. - 2892
October - 1632

Not sure what percentage of thru hikers finish in the 2 off-peak months vs how many contribute to the (relatively) crowded trails in July and August, but putting aside any concerns about the quota, a later finish has its advantages.

rickb, on average between 60% and 65% of NOBO completers finish in September or October.

[rickb]

rickb, on average between 60% and 65% of NOBO completers finish in September or October.

Thank you.

Good to hear that most NOBO thru hikers arrive at Katahdin outside of the park's peak usage period.

My guess is that NOBO #1351 won't appreciate the irony of a capacity quota being applied at a time when the number of people headed up the Hunt Trail (AT) is well "off peak", however.

[Lauriep]

Teej, thanks for sharing your very helpful resource, and the reminder about avoiding Labor Day weekend!


One update from earlier communication about the Baxter A.T. hiker permits this year:

The available number of A.T.-Hiker Permit Cards is 3,150.

As we understand it, the actual permits are not broken down into categories. The park does cite the four categories of A.T. hikers it issues permits to (northbound, southbound, flip-flop, and section), and earlier provided separate numbers for each category, but the purpose of that was to show how they arrived at their calculations for the total.​ If you look at Baxter State Park's web page for A.T. hikers, http://baxterstatepark.org/general-info/the-at/ you'll note there is no mention of different numbers of permits for different categories of A.T. hiker.

Scotty,

To answer your question, I will share this part of the Q&A:



What will happen to me if I arrive at Baxter State Park after all of the thru-hiker permits have already been claimed?

Katahdin will not be closed to A.T. hikers if the A.T. hiker permit limit is reached. If that happens, A.T. hikers will need to comply with the day use or campground permitting limits. They will need to leave the Park and then re-enter through Togue Pond Date as a day-use visitor to the Park. There are shuttles available from both Abol Bridge and Katahdin Stream Campground. Inquire at the Monson A.T. Visitor Center for information on shuttle providers. We still encourage all thru-hikers to plan to complete their hikes by October 15 because weather on Katahdin is unpredictable in late fall and late-season hiking can cause undue impacts to the alpine zone.

If I can provide a more specific response, I will.

Laurie Potteiger
Appalachian Trail Conservancy

[rickb]

Interesting to learn that BSP is now promising to apply thier cap to just the total number of "long distance AT Hikers" at 3,150 -- regardless their "category".

Kudos to the ATC for making sure of that.

I have to admit being confused by BSP's plan -- especially WRT how/why the number of Southbounders (who make reservations like everyone else) impacts the park's willingness to accommodate the number of northbounders who walk into the park via the AT.

The actual numbers matter, of course.

My understanding (based on the announcement I copied below) was that BSP was going to provide to provide a running tally of the long distance hikers on its web and facebook pages:


39787


39786


Has anyone seen this? Is it being done?

If not, are these numbers being shared on a real-time basis with he ATC, at least

Or will that come in October?


Edit: I found another announcement that indicated 2733 thru hikers in 2106 -- up 25% from the number mentioned in my attachment, so I guess reaching the cap may come sooner rather than later.

Probably means nothing, but in the announcement I posted they said that SOBOs would not need a card last year -- hopefully that does not mean the 2733 number was under reported. IF it was, we could see the cap reached much sooner than expected.

How about the promised daily totals?

[TJ aka Teej]

If you look at Baxter State Park's web page for A.T. hikers, http://baxterstatepark.org/general-info/the-at/ you'll note there is no mention of different numbers of permits for different categories of A.T. hiker.
However, the second bullet from that link has a hyperlink to this info:


5. The available number of AT-Hiker Permit Cards for 2017 will be as follows:
Northbound: 1,350
Southbound: 610
Section: 840
Flip-Flop: 350
Total: 3,150
That's where I got the 1350 number. I like the idea of an overall number better, though.

[Lauriep]

Good catch - Teej, that is confusing. Perhaps the PDF was too hard to update or the detail that is now a discrepancy was overlooked. I'll check in with ATC's rep in Maine to see if that can be resolved.

[rickb]

I find it interesting to compare the numbers TJ brought to our attention, with the 2016 final numbers from the MATC Ferry:



Southbound through hikers: 420
Northbound through hikers: 1,194
Flip Flop through hikers, heading south when they crossed the river: 150
Flip Flop through hikers, heading north when they crossed the river: 113
Southbound section hikers: 356
Northbound section hikers: 405
Day use hikers: 2
Total hikers using the Ferry Service during the 2016 season: 2,640
Confirmed Forders/Swimmers: 10

The ferry long distance hiker total of 2648 is pretty close to the 2733 that BSP recorded last year, but I would have expected BSPs numbers to be much higher than what the Ferry saw. Probably makes sense, though.

[imscotty]

Teej, thanks for sharing your very helpful resource, and the reminder about avoiding Labor Day weekend!


One update from earlier communication about the Baxter A.T. hiker permits this year:

The available number of A.T.-Hiker Permit Cards is 3,150.

As we understand it, the actual permits are not broken down into categories. The park does cite the four categories of A.T. hikers it issues permits to (northbound, southbound, flip-flop, and section), and earlier provided separate numbers for each category, but the purpose of that was to show how they arrived at their calculations for the total.​ If you look at Baxter State Park's web page for A.T. hikers, http://baxterstatepark.org/general-info/the-at/ you'll note there is no mention of different numbers of permits for different categories of A.T. hiker.

Scotty,

To answer your question, I will share this part of the Q&A:


What will happen to me if I arrive at Baxter State Park after all of the thru-hiker permits have already been claimed?

Katahdin will not be closed to A.T. hikers if the A.T. hiker permit limit is reached. If that happens, A.T. hikers will need to comply with the day use or campground permitting limits. They will need to leave the Park and then re-enter through Togue Pond Date as a day-use visitor to the Park. There are shuttles available from both Abol Bridge and Katahdin Stream Campground. Inquire at the Monson A.T. Visitor Center for information on shuttle providers. We still encourage all thru-hikers to plan to complete their hikes by October 15 because weather on Katahdin is unpredictable in late fall and late-season hiking can cause undue impacts to the alpine zone.

If I can provide a more specific response, I will.

Laurie Potteiger
Appalachian Trail Conservancy

Thank you Laurie,

A careful reading of that Q&A would seem to imply that once the the permits are gone all hikers would need to obtain their day permit and ENTER through the Togue gate. So a purist would need to do something like this...

Day 1) Obtain Day use Permit, shuttle to Katahdin Stream, hike SOBO on AT to 'touch' the boundary, and then return (18.4 miles round trip, a long day for this old geezer). Leave Park.

Day 2) Obtain Day Use Permit, hike from Katahdin Stream to Katahdin summit on Hunt Trail and return (10.4 miles round trip). Leave Park.

Please somebody chime in if you think I am reading this incorrectly.

It seems to me that there is a lot of motivation in this for thru-hikers to arrive at Katahdin before all the permits are taken. It seems to me that this would push more hikers to finish during BSP's peak season, rather than later in the Fall. I am not sure this was well thought out from BSP's perspective. IMHO.

[Lauriep]

This comes from Claire Polfus, ATC's Maine Program Manager:

Day Use parking permits are only for Katahdin trailheads. It would not be necessary to get a day use permit to hike from Abol bridge to Katahdin Stream.

She also noted that there may not be quite as much a crunch for nobos to get spaces during the busy season as one might calculate, as spaces often become available a few days out. Hikers can call the park from Nesuntabunt or Antlers to check (ideally making that call when there aren't others nearby enjoying the view).

[imscotty]

This comes from Claire Polfus, ATC's Maine Program Manager:

Day Use parking permits are only for Katahdin trailheads. It would not be necessary to get a day use permit to hike from Abol bridge to Katahdin Stream.

She also noted that there may not be quite as much a crunch for nobos to get spaces during the busy season as one might calculate, as spaces often become available a few days out. Hikers can call the park from Nesuntabunt or Antlers to check (ideally making that call when there aren't others nearby enjoying the view).

Thank you for that info Laurie, that seems a lot more reasonable.

[Hiker4Jesus]

the two days makes sense but i would like to descend Katadin going down the knife edge.

[Hiker4Jesus]

I wish Hikers would have more respect for the park/mountain and authority that way we wouldn't have to go through this process. Only a few years ago you could summit without any issues.

[imscotty]

the two days makes sense but i would like to descend Katadin going down the knife edge.
Then you would want to snag a reservation for that night at Chimney Pond.

[peakbagger]

Then you would want to snag a reservation for that night at Chimney Pond.

Hikers who want to descend the Knife Edge trail would not want reservations at Chimney Pond as the Dudley Trail that goes from Pamola (end of the Knife Edge trail) and the pond was closed indefinitely last year while they figure out how to rebuild it. The only options to do the Knife Edge are an out and back from the summit over to Pamola and back or taking the Helon Taylor trail down to the Roaring Brook Campground. Even if the Dudley trail was open, Chimney Pond is one of the most popular backcountry campgrounds in the park and it is highly unlikely that a spot will open up. On a nice day the combination of the Knife Edge and the Helon Taylor trail is a fantastic way to end a through hike as the Helon Taylor trail stays above tree line the farthest down on the mountain. The odds are slightly better to get reservations at Roaring Brook but forget walking in without them, if you are considering this option realize that its highly unlikely that you will make the south bound bus from Medway at 9:30 the next morning which means an extra day in Millinocket.

For those who just want to keep going east from the summit, the Saddle, Cathedral and Hamlin Ridge trail do head down to Chimney Pond skipping the Knife Edge although the Cathedral trail is not recommended for descent. The Saddle trail is the bad weather route designed to get out of bad weather the quickest. Hamlin Ridge is a worthy hike as it runs along a spiny ridge that separates the Chimney Pond area from the another large basin. In any case the hike down from Chimney Pond to Roaring Brook is an easy hike.

The big caveats about heading down to Roaring Brook is that there are no shuttles to Millinocket at Roaring Brook. There is heavy day hiker use so a hiker may be able to hitch to Millinocket or even Medway. The other issue is a hiker should carry all their gear to the summit as getting back to Katahdin Stream is more difficult as its against the normal traffic flow. This is a sore point with the park staff where thru hikers head down to Roaring Brook without reservations and expect the park staff will accommodate them or give them a ride to either the park gate or back to Katahdin Stream

[TJ aka Teej]

Great post by peakbagger.

[imscotty]

Thank you for the update and the info Peakbagger.

[Hiker4Jesus]

thanks for the helpful tips