View Full Version : Shenandoah Slackpack
LittleRock
07-05-2017, 13:37
My brother and I really want to hike the Shenandoah section (Waynesboro, VA to Front Royal, VA) all in one go, but we only have six days (Saturday to Saturday, with both Saturdays being taken up by driving to/from the trail).
I've heard that the Shenandoah section is easy, but even though we're both experienced backpackers I just can't see us doing 108 miles in 6 days with full packs. But it also looks like this section is ideal for slackpacking since the trail basically parallels Skyline Drive the whole time. Basically, we'd have 2 cars, park them at the beginning/ending point, hike between them, head back to a motel for the night, repeat 5X. So here are my questions:
- Is hiking the entire 108 miles in 6 days (with only a small day pack) a reasonable goal?
- Where are good places to stay near the trail, OTHER THAN Skyland/Big Meadows (too expensive)?
- How do we break up this section so we can start/stop at a overlook/parking area each day, but hike no more than ~20 miles in a day (and minimize driving time)?
My brother and I really want to hike the Shenandoah section (Waynesboro, VA to Front Royal, VA) all in one go, but we only have six days (Saturday to Saturday, with both Saturdays being taken up by driving to/from the trail).
I've heard that the Shenandoah section is easy, but even though we're both experienced backpackers I just can't see us doing 108 miles in 6 days with full packs. But it also looks like this section is ideal for slackpacking since the trail basically parallels Skyline Drive the whole time. Basically, we'd have 2 cars, park them at the beginning/ending point, hike between them, head back to a motel for the night, repeat 5X. So here are my questions:
- Is hiking the entire 108 miles in 6 days (with only a small day pack) a reasonable goal?
- Where are good places to stay near the trail, OTHER THAN Skyland/Big Meadows (too expensive)?
- How do we break up this section so we can start/stop at a overlook/parking area each day, but hike no more than ~20 miles in a day (and minimize driving time)?
coming from someone who used to think an approach like you describe above was preferential to "real" backpacking and has since decided against such things and has hiked all of SNP in one swoop- just hike it and forget the slackpack. youre going to spend more time and money on logistics than its worth. esp if you dont want to stay in the park (undertsandable).
if you can move quick (which you have to if you only have 6 days( you basically dont have to carry hardly any food at all. aim to sleep only at shelters and cary only a survival shelter for emergencies or in a pinch situations instead of a fullblown tent.
or if you really want to slackpack then setup camp at an established campground in the park (big meadows most likely)
driving in and out of the park is repeatedly is going to be a major time suck.
SteelCut
07-05-2017, 13:58
If you are experienced, then the terrain and easy resupply make it possible to do it in 6 days. However, dispersed camping is problematic in the Park and the designated shelters and campsites are at odd spacings that may not work with an average of 18mpd.
If you are experienced, then the terrain and easy resupply make it possible to do it in 6 days. However, dispersed camping is problematic in the Park and the designated shelters and campsites are at odd spacings that may not work with an average of 18mpd.
i dont remember where exactly i stayed but i hiked south to north and stayed at shelters every night but one (big meadows, and i think theres a shelter nearby there) and with the exception of the last day i didnt have to extend myself more than a hair over 20 miles any day.
going back over it now, i think i did-
day 1 rockfish to blkrock- 20.7 miles
day 2 blkrock to hightop- 21.4 miles
day 3 hightop to big meadows- 19.5 (here is where finding a shelter is gonna be an issue. the campground is the best bet if not paying to stay at the lodge)
day 4 big meadows to pass mountain- 19.7 miles
day 5 pass mountain to i exited the park at chester gap, which would be around 24 miles total with sidetrail
having 6 days should just make it easier, but the above, even while carrying a "full pack" was not hard.
LittleRock
07-05-2017, 16:33
if you can move quick (which you have to if you only have 6 days( you basically dont have to carry hardly any food at all. aim to sleep only at shelters and cary only a survival shelter for emergencies or in a pinch situations instead of a fullblown tent.
driving in and out of the park is repeatedly is going to be a major time suck.
Yeah, the driving was what I was most worried about. I was hoping maybe we could cut down driving time by switching motels halfway through or something.
We might be able to do it with packs, but it's going to take some conditioning. Without conditioning, the most I've done in 6 days was 84 miles (Springer to Deep Gap, NC), and I ended up with knee problems for about a month afterward.
Is Shenandoah really that much easier than Georgia, or the rest of Virginia for that matter?
Slo-go'en
07-05-2017, 17:35
"Easy" is relative. Because the trail has to avoid the parkway, there is a lot of little climbs up and down and those can wear at you. Some of the amenities are pretty much right on the trail, some are up to a mile off it.
If you want to stay at hotels, it would have to be in Waynesboro, Luray or Front Royal. I'm not sure what you can get for a week long pass into the park, otherwise you'll be paying a fee each time you drive in. It might be worth getting a season pass. Since a motel room will cost you up to a $100 a night, your going to need deep pockets to afford this trip.
Probably the best option would be to use the car camp grounds. A couple of days at Loft Mountain and then a few at Big Meadows would allow you to slack most of the park with minimal driving. Your already in the park so you don't have to keep paying fees to get back in.
Yeah, the driving was what I was most worried about. I was hoping maybe we could cut down driving time by switching motels halfway through or something.
We might be able to do it with packs, but it's going to take some conditioning. Without conditioning, the most I've done in 6 days was 84 miles (Springer to Deep Gap, NC), and I ended up with knee problems for about a month afterward.
Is Shenandoah really that much easier than Georgia, or the rest of Virginia for that matter?
yes. especially considering how much less you have to carry.
aside from day 1, on my itinerary, you will pass resupply daily. sometimes twice.
im not super familiar with every hotel possibility, but in general, if youre in the center of the park i think youre looking at 60-90 mins if not more to the nearest out of the park hotel
"Easy" is relative. Because the trail has to avoid the parkway, there is a lot of little climbs up and down and those can wear at you. Some of the amenities are pretty much right on the trail, some are up to a mile off it.
If you want to stay at hotels, it would have to be in Waynesboro, Luray or Front Royal. I'm not sure what you can get for a week long pass into the park, otherwise you'll be paying a fee each time you drive in. It might be worth getting a season pass. Since a motel room will cost you up to a $100 a night, your going to need deep pockets to afford this trip.
Probably the best option would be to use the car camp grounds. A couple of days at Loft Mountain and then a few at Big Meadows would allow you to slack most of the park with minimal driving. Your already in the park so you don't have to keep paying fees to get back in.
unless they changed something you pay admission once and it is good for a week if you hang onto your receipt.
Hikingjim
07-05-2017, 18:48
I didn't see what time of year you said, but if it's in the summer and it's really hot, you might find you'd rather sit in the shade at a wayside for awhile and not do 20 miles that day.
Instead of having all those logistics with slack packing, I would recommend just starting at waynesboro and see how far you get. You hardly ever need to carry much food... there is so much along the way.
If you don't quite make it back to your second car, there are tons of shuttle drivers at both ends of the park.
There aren't good non-park hotel options other than mentioned above: the start, the end, or luray. Luray has a hostel that is cheap and she'll pick you up. It's nothing too fancy, but she's accommodating and will bring you to the pub, etc. Open arms hostel. Or there are hotels in luray, but you'd have to get in there a few miles off trail
Big meadows campground you can tent/shower/laundry and take an evening stroll to the wayside for food.
Terrain has a lot of nice clear path. The sections that are rocky don't last long. Found it got a bit boring in some sections personally..
Figured out after a couple of those type of sections that I'd rather have the rocks and crazy slopes!
DaddyPatch
07-05-2017, 19:59
Just hiked SNP 2 weeks ago, going to be hard on your time schedule. Only water for first 30miles is at shelters, we did more like shelter hopping, gets rocky after Mary's rock, pretty tough stretch at the picnic area/.
Don't go back to a motel every night as the lure of creature comforts has the overwhelming tendency of eating into hiking time. Stay on trail sleeping. If you do that you'll save $$$ and once you do get to Skylands the $$$ room outlay will not seem so trip budget prohibitive. Eat a B-Fast and dinner at Skylands and at other pit stops in S NP on trail that reduce consumable pack wt in itself. Skylands is right on trail. Grab a shower. As another example, to go lighter wt I'd make use of the Loft Mt area wayside for a meal and, checking ahead of time, the CG Store there to lower food hauls. Take a shower here too! You might inquire on the low down(in private) very politely if anyone/anyplace in S NP will allow ya to mail or hold a resupply box for ya. Ya have two cars to drop off resupply boxes. Work that social magic at Skylands leveraging that stay to get this done! If you do mix in an outside of S NP hotel stay consider key places(Rd crossings into town or pre arrange shuttles to/from trail). There used to be a Hostel near the north end not far off the AT and I think there might be one near the south end as well?
Make careful note of H20 SOURCES TOO so you're not carrying excess wt!
If the miles aren't forthcoming the AT through S NP parallels the main road. Although outright hitchhiking with a thumb out is legally a No No asking for a ride isn't. Helps to limp like a lost beaten puppy with some blood dripping down a leg.
Note the easy is relative comment by Slo-go-en. Lots of thrus in primo gung ho go go go shape hitting S NP will tell you it's all easy AT S NP terrain. I sincerely question you're in the same boat as LD thru-hikers at S NP.
Note the easy is relative comment by Slo-go-en. Lots of thrus in primo gung ho go go go shape hitting S NP will tell you it's all easy AT S NP terrain. I sincerely question you're in the same boat as LD thru-hikers at S NP.
i was, am not, and likely never will be a thru hiker.
i hiked the itinerary i posted above, easily.
the thrus that were passing through the park while i did it.... the "serious" ones anyway, were cranking out 30 or more per day.
easy is relative yes. but that means a lot of things. for instance, it means in relation to the rest of the AT, the trail through SNP has a certain level of relative difficulty.
that level is, i'd say, easy to moderate. mostly easy.
Hikingjim
07-05-2017, 20:41
Relating to difficulty, I probably averaged 3 mph for the whole park. More like 4 mph when I could smell the food.
Doesn't mean I want to hike 30 miles, but if you normally do 10 miles with a mix of steep climbs, rocky terrain, etc, then 15+ is not a big stretch there
You can crush more miles there because major obstacles and killer climbs are limited. It's still a fair amount of climbing if you do a lot of miles though.
I did sobo and the 20 miles out of front royal (lots of up the first day south) in 90f weather kicked my ass.
Halfwayhiker
07-05-2017, 21:01
If you are worried about getting through the whole park, you could start at Rockfish Gap and leave a car in the parking lot at Panorama. That would get you about 2/3 of the way through the park and you will certainly be able to do that. If you surprise yourself and are ahead of schedule, you could go get the car at Rockfish, and then while heading North drop a car again at Panorama and go to the northern end of the park. Then hike South, back to the car at Panorama.
Relating to difficulty, I probably averaged 3 mph for the whole park. More like 4 mph when I could smell the food.
you know, this raises an interesting question i found myself contemplating on a recent backpacking trip.
i was strolling along slowly and calmly like i was out for a walk in the park. i had more than enough time to reach my destination, no motivation to try and ush past. i was 14 or miles of an 18 mile day completed. not sweating, no panting, not doubled over. just taking my time easily walking along.
i come upon this couple stopped in the trail. the guy is dripping with sweat. doubled over, panting.
the women sees me walking there was all nice and slowly and says, i assume trying to make conversation
"you look tired."
me, being blunt and terribly at small talk, points the guy and replies-
"me? no i'm fine. HE looks tired. why are you panting?"
after exchanging some more "pleasantries" i put forth the hypothesis that maybe he was just trying to hike too damn fast.
i am the last person in the world to tell anyone how to hike. and ive seen plenty of people who cruise 4MPH hour all day and end up with a 35mile day and seem to have barely broken a sweat.
that said though, if you're crushing 4 MPH for 5 hours and then falling over dead, i think its worth considering that perhaps slowing the pace down and taking more a "slow and steady approach" may be both more enjoyable and productive.
said differently, i dont think ive ever sustained 4 MPH anywhere. ever. certainly not on my SNP hike. but i get the miles done and it is generally easily done.
its really not bad about actual hiking speed.
NJdreamer
07-05-2017, 21:03
If this is being done during the summer, you may not find room in the shelters so you should bring a tent or hammock. I can confirm that for the southern most 60 miles, water was at the shelters, and not so much along the way. The trail was the easiest I have ever done (fewer rocks, rock scrambling and such) but there are plenty of elevation changes. I second that not staying on the trail will be time consuming. It took us an hour plus to get back to our car that was at the beginning, and there are limited access points into the park. Whatever you do, have fun.
All this builds up into achieving your trip goals, including the miles, perhaps more joyously, with less stress of hiking 100 miles in 6 days with less daily logistical motel needed effort, maybe saving some do re mi overall, maybe having more time to enjoy the AT S NP overlooks, and enjoying more of S NP.
As a ULer I'm very accustomed to experiencing what amounts to other's slackpacking without calling it slackpacking but sincerely I admit I sometimes go to extremes when it's really not worth it in the big scheme of enjoying a hike.
i was, am not, and likely never will be a thru hiker.
i hiked the itinerary i posted above, easily.
the thrus that were passing through the park while i did it.... the "serious" ones anyway, were cranking out 30 or more per day.
easy is relative yes. but that means a lot of things. for instance, it means in relation to the rest of the AT, the trail through SNP has a certain level of relative difficulty.
that level is, i'd say, easy to moderate. mostly easy.
IR NP easy or easier? ;)
Kaptainkriz
07-05-2017, 22:05
Yes, this is still the case.
unless they changed something you pay admission once and it is good for a week if you hang onto your receipt.
IR NP easy or easier? ;)
IRNP doesnt have as much up and down as SNP, (but neither is much) but the trails are a bit messier (rockier, overgrown) at times.
on balance its probably about a wash
you know, this raises an interesting question i found myself contemplating on a recent backpacking trip.
i was strolling along slowly and calmly like i was out for a walk in the park. i had more than enough time to reach my destination, no motivation to try and ush past. i was 14 or miles of an 18 mile day completed. not sweating, no panting, not doubled over. just taking my time easily walking along.
i come upon this couple stopped in the trail. the guy is dripping with sweat. doubled over, panting.
the women sees me walking there was all nice and slowly and says, i assume trying to make conversation
"you look tired."
me, being blunt and terribly at small talk, points the guy and replies-
"me? no i'm fine. HE looks tired. why are you panting?"
after exchanging some more "pleasantries" i put forth the hypothesis that maybe he was just trying to hike too damn fast.
i am the last person in the world to tell anyone how to hike. and ive seen plenty of people who cruise 4MPH hour all day and end up with a 35mile day and seem to have barely broken a sweat.
that said though, if you're crushing 4 MPH for 5 hours and then falling over dead, i think its worth considering that perhaps slowing the pace down and taking more a "slow and steady approach" may be both more enjoyable and productive.
said differently, i dont think ive ever sustained 4 MPH anywhere. ever. certainly not on my SNP hike. but i get the miles done and it is generally easily done.
its really not bad about actual hiking speed.
IMHO most on multi day or LD hikes consistently hitting 35 MPD marks aren't hiking a 4 MPH avg. They might hit that 4 mph or higher rate based on terrain or other conditions but they aren't sustaining that MPH rate all day. A lot can be said for approaching a hike basing rate on terrain and conditions rather than attempting a steady rate. - slowing down, speeding up, changing up hiking technique based on weather or how much is in a pack, etc
IMHO most on multi day or LD hikes consistently hitting 35 MPD marks aren't hiking a 4 MPH avg. They might hit that 4 mph or higher rate based on terrain or other conditions but they aren't sustaining that MPH rate all day. A lot can be said for approaching a hike basing rate on terrain and conditions rather than attempting a steady rate. - slowing down, speeding up, changing up hiking technique based on weather or how much is in a pack, etc
i dont know about most, but i havent definitely witnessed a good number of hikers sustaining more than 3 MPH.
i mean sure everyone varies, but theyre range of variation was considerably higher than mine.
i met a guy in the smokies last month. he had 90 days (on a visa) to do a through. he did the PCT in that time frame last year.
i first him at pecks corner, and then we both stayed at tri corner. when i asked him when he started he said, i kid you not, "last week." i'm sure he completed springer to hotsprings in 10 or 11 days. hes probably in new england now.
he made it look easy. like it was nothing.
Hikingjim
07-06-2017, 08:19
I was only stating the 3 mph example because I felt that SNP didn't really break my standard stride on a lot of long sections, whereas many sections my pace drops to 50-70% speed for terrain and enjoyment!
I was only stating the 3 mph example because I felt that SNP didn't really break my standard stride on a lot of long sections, whereas many sections my pace drops to 50-70% speed for terrain and enjoyment!
i follow. wasnt necessarily speaking about you, more so in general.
i think it all boils down to saying the same thing in different ways- in the grand scheme of all things AT, SNP is easy. especially when you consider it is at a fairly decent elevation. most other places on the AT that are in the 3500-4000 ft range that ive been to have way more and much harder ups and downs to deal with.
i remember one large climb in SNP, at mary's rock, and i was going down it. i dont recall there being an equal but opposite climb after it either.
LittleRock
07-06-2017, 09:21
Thanks all for the responses!!!
I talked to my brother last night, and I think we're just going to push our trip back to some time when we have more like 8-9 days to backpack the whole park at a more leisurely pace.
WOW! So you are currently throwing any S NP experience out the window unless you can do nothing but all the AT in one blast through the NP. With all due respect 6 days in S NP in general taking in perhaps some of the AT with other out standing trail areas could be a great trip in itself while providing familiarity for the future AT ONLY 100 + mile hike especially when water volume is high or during the fall. There is a whole other awesomely scenic part of S NP that is not on the AT! Is there a reason why you are having a so gung ho AT only SNP do it all or nothing attitude?
Spirit Walker
07-06-2017, 11:52
You could stay at the car campgrounds at Loft, Lewis and Big Meadows for the southern 2/3. The northernmost CG is closed. Do your two car hike or a key exchange for the southern sections and when you get to Panorama you can go into Luray or Front Royal or just backpack the northern section. You'd only have 2-3 days of food, so your pack would be light.
We spent one night in SNP a couple of weeks ago. I was surprised at how many backpackers I saw out walking on the road. There is no shoulder in some places and lots of traffic. I knew hikers who walked the road at night, but mid-day? The trail isn't that difficult.
IRNP doesnt have as much up and down as SNP, (but neither is much) but the trails are a bit messier (rockier, overgrown) at times.
on balance its probably about a wash
You must be referring to only the AT through S NP as some S NP trails are very rocky, overgrown, and certainly do experience some up and downing - think the waterfall trails, White Oak Canyon, Old Rag area, etc. As said there's another side of S NP that isn't commonly appreciated by those with an AT only agenda.
You must be referring to only the AT through S NP as some S NP trails are very rocky, overgrown, and certainly do experience some up and downing - think the waterfall trails, White Oak Canyon, Old Rag area, etc. As said there's another side of S NP that isn't commonly appreciated by those with an AT only agenda.
yes, only referring to the AT.
i really only know the AT and old rag, and in my head old rag is in an entirely different place that is only technically in SNP so in any discussion of SNP it is never at the forefront of my mind.
lol old rag is as about as hard as the NPS would like you to think (and have succeeded with some people, it seems) IRNP is.
Technically? Old Rag as well as the abundance of waterfall and other trails as described are in S NP...period! It's a shame S NP isn't appreciated more than than the AT only crowd attitude limits.
LittleRock
07-06-2017, 16:09
WOW! So you are currently throwing any S NP experience out the window unless you can do nothing but all the AT in one blast through the NP. With all due respect 6 days in S NP in general taking in perhaps some of the AT with other out standing trail areas could be a great trip in itself while providing familiarity for the future AT ONLY 100 + mile hike especially when water volume is high or during the fall. There is a whole other awesomely scenic part of S NP that is not on the AT! Is there a reason why you are having a so gung ho AT only SNP do it all or nothing attitude?
I've hiked other parts of SNP besides the AT before - Old Rag was pretty cool but other than that we have better stuff closer to home here in NC that doesn't cost anything. I've been section hiking the AT for years, mostly just wanted to get through SNP in one go to avoid having to pay the entrance fee twice. My brother lives out west and will be visiting for a week. He originally wanted to do one of my AT sections with me, but we settled on hiking part of the Mountains-to-Sea trail instead. I'll go back and hike the SNP section in one go later.
Technically? Old Rag as well as the abundance of waterfall and other trails as described are in S NP...period! It's a shame S NP isn't appreciated more than than the AT only crowd attitude limits.
most people, and for good reason, get to the old rag section of the park in a vehicle driven to a place that is. i'm guesstimating, 70 miles via paved road from skyline drive.
its effectively a different place. much as, to most people, the north and south rims of the grand canyon are.
Hikingjim
07-06-2017, 19:02
most people, and for good reason, get to the old rag section of the park in a vehicle driven to a place that is. i'm guesstimating, 70 miles via paved road from skyline drive.
its effectively a different place. much as, to most people, the north and south rims of the grand canyon are.
True that most people do this. Far away by car, very close to the best of SNP by foot.
Awhile back I did a short loop hike that included old rag and some nice SNP AT highlights (stonyman, a stop in at skyland, white oak canyon, detoured to big meadows).
I would never thru-hike the AT there again, but that hike wasn't bad if I lived in the area
Gotcha.
FWIW Hiking Jim's hike was way shorter distance and MUCH MORE SCENIC INTERESTING, HARDER, AND DIVERSE than sticking only to the AT through the park! What's more it can be easily incorporated into a S NP AT ONLY/AT thru hike
Shame when so many AT thrus last through S NP only on the AT with the idea to get through as fast as possible.
Reminds of CDTers blasting through Glacier, Yellowstone, skipping the San Juans,not even really experiencing much other than in name
Furlough
07-08-2017, 09:41
[QUOTE=Slo-go'en;2158279If you want to stay at hotels, it would have to be in Waynesboro, Luray or Front Royal. I'm not sure what you can get for a week long pass into the park, otherwise you'll be paying a fee each time you drive in. It might be worth getting a season pass. Since a motel room will cost you up to a $100 a night, your going to need deep pockets to afford this trip. [/QUOTE]
Also Elkton Va. - Country View Inn is 9 minutes away from Swift Run Gap SNP Entrance Station. Swift Run Gap is the point between the South District (Rock Fish Gap to Swift Run Gap) and the Central District (Swift Run Gap to Thornton River Gap). $70 to $150 dollars depending on room. Cabins are $80-$85.