Trail Level of Difficulty [Archive]

tdoczi

08-01-2017, 08:53

compared to what?

when it is easy, its as easy as easy can possibly get. when its hard, its hard to imagine something harder.

in very broad strokes its often said from glencliffe NH to the northern terminus is the hardest part, from the southern terminus to damascus, va is second hardest, and the part in between (over half the trail) is the easy "third."

this easy third is not uniformly easy but it pretty much always easier than the other parts.

if you want to divide further, i'd say rockfish gap, va to dalton, ma, with a few short areas and a couple of 25 mile or so stretches aside, is the easiest of the easy.

MuddyWaters

08-01-2017, 09:18

Half of it is very easy to me

The downhill half...

illabelle

08-01-2017, 09:33

Your question isn't easy to answer. A hard day in Maine won't be hard 100% of the time. A steep uphill climb is usually followed by at least a little bit of moderate ridge walking, or if you're lucky, a gentle downhill. Those difficulty ratings are helpful, but the state-by-state scale is much too large when hikers are thinking day-by-day, or even hour-by-hour. When you zoom into a single day's trek, you're likely to find that a day rated at 10 on the difficulty scale might have 20% at level 9-10, 40% at level 7-8, 30% at level 5-6, and 10% at 1-4. Likewise a easy day might have a few short steep climbs.

illabelle

08-01-2017, 09:44

Get some maps of the trail in the areas you plan to hike - maps that include elevation profiles. Those profiles will be very educational with respect to the big picture and the day-to-day challenge. What they won't show you is the difference between a flat place in Pennsylvania (covered with hundreds of stumbly rocks) or a flat place in Maine (roots, rocks, more roots, more rocks) or a flat place in Vermont (mudhole, or maybe a boardwalk) or a flat place in TN a bit south of Damascus VA (smooth, easy, sailing along). All that stuff, you get to discover when you get out there.

The other thing the profile maps won't show are the smaller ups and downs that don't get picked up by whatever criteria the profile map is built on. If the profile map picks up 50' changes in elevation between point A and point B, it won't show you whether the trail goes up and down 40' repeatedly between A and B.

Traveler

08-01-2017, 09:48

Statistically most long distance trails do not appear very difficult. Then there is the reality of the statistics. For example a 275 vertical gain per mile on an 8 mile stretch seems fairly mundane, until you find there are two steep sections of a half mile or so at 1,000 feet each that changes the definition of easy.

I have typically found the terrain is not the overarching issue with long distance treks, its the mental/emotional energy necessary to accomplish it. Which explains why some folks who are in top physical condition do not make the distance and others who are below that level do.

Dogwood

08-01-2017, 10:02

I've wanted to say this for awhile. It's all relative. :p

kayak karl

08-01-2017, 10:18

The first ten days out of Springer was the most difficult hiking I ever did. I thought Maine and NH was a breeze.

Gambit McCrae

08-01-2017, 10:48

Lonewolf will be along shortly to explain all in just 3 little words

"it's just walkin"

Lone Wolf

it's just walkin'

it's just walkin'

it's just walkin'

it's just bearin'

Whitmaniac1

08-01-2017, 11:05

Thanks to all for your insight. I am trying to figure out roughly how long it would take me to complete a thru hike and this gives me enough information to estimate.

lonehiker

08-01-2017, 11:12

Thanks to all for your insight. I am trying to figure out roughly how long it would take me to complete a thru hike and this gives me enough information to estimate.

Go to Mapmans statistics. They are a much better indicator. I think they are in the homepage under articles. Someone else can chime in as to their exact location.

Whitmaniac1

08-01-2017, 11:19

That would be great if someone could provide. I'm also wondering how much hike/rest/non-hike time to build into hike days.

illabelle

08-01-2017, 11:24

That would be great if someone could provide. I'm also wondering how much hike/rest/non-hike time to build into hike days.

https://whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php/44-AT-Hiking-Rates-Section-by-Section

DownEaster

08-01-2017, 11:52

What they won't show you is the difference between a flat place in Pennsylvania (covered with hundreds of stumbly rocks) or a flat place in Maine (roots, rocks, more roots, more rocks) or a flat place in Vermont (mudhole, or maybe a boardwalk) or a flat place in TN a bit south of Damascus VA (smooth, easy, sailing along). All that stuff, you get to discover when you get out there.
Speaking from experience, flat places in Maine after a heavy rain can involve knee-deep wading thanks to the industrious beavers.

Tipi Walter

08-01-2017, 12:09

I just got back from an 18 day trip in the July furnace whereby I spent most of the time on Jacks River in the Cohutta wilderness. When it's 95F+ in the Southeast mountains all trails are difficult and the worst nutbusting trails are beyond difficult. How much heat can you stand? With real-world weight on your back? Then add in the noseeums and horse flies and gnats and yellow jackets and Mister and Mrs Rattlesnake and Copperhead. In-tent camping in a heatwave also sucks.

39999
Here's Cohut Johnny near Hemp Top Mt on the Benton MacKaye trail. We talked and he found a sunny spot.

40000
By the time I saw this guy we were both dragging worse than slugs in salt. A heatwave pisses off reptiles and all mammals alike.

lonehiker

08-01-2017, 13:07

That would be great if someone could provide. I'm also wondering how much hike/rest/non-hike time to build into hike days.

You are over thinking this. When tired, stop and rest. When rested, walk...

Lone Wolf

08-01-2017, 13:19

i never found the AT physically challenging

Feral Bill

08-01-2017, 13:28

i never found the AT physically challenging You might not be typical.

saltysack

08-01-2017, 13:39

No way others can answer this for YOU......

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

evyck da fleet

08-01-2017, 14:30

tdoczi

08-01-2017, 14:51

The first two weeks are the most difficult. Then it's moderate or easy, although you can make it difficult if you want. Yes Maine is more difficult than Georgia but...how do I quantify that when it took me seven days to hike the first 90 miles to get out of Georgia but I covered 170 miles the last week in Maine?

ive never hiked GA but it does seem to me like there should be distinction made between the trail itself actually being difficult and people commonly having a hard time with it because they arent in hiking shape.

i suspect ME would have destroyed you had you gone there in the shape you were in that took 7 days to hike GA.

personally, i still cant wrap my head around the concept of someone who cant yet walk 15 miles in a day anywhere deciding to undertake walking 2100+, but it seems a lot of people do it.

clusterone

08-01-2017, 15:06

To be clear... I have only done the GA section. However, when I compare it to many "Wilderness Area" trails I have hiked since then, can say the AT section seemed easier. Note -- I did not say easy, but that really depends on how many miles you put in per day. So just agreeing, "its just walkin'". Not trying to piss off any die hard AT only fans, but more remote and less traveled trails are out there.
Lonewolf will be along shortly to explain all in just 3 little words

Tipi Walter

08-01-2017, 15:18

Level of Difficulty on any trail including the AT is dependent not only on inclines and Nut climbs and/or descents but on ambient temps, wind speed, rain intensity and duration, postholing and snow depths---and Snowdowns---whereby the green tunnel trail is blocked by leaning snow-heavy brush. Add in the aforementioned yellow jackets and pit vipers and furnace heat. Anyone enjoy getting oven-baked?

Rarely does a trail exist as just a Trail, without the above components added into the mix. Ever hike at 0F with two feet of snow? Then even a level trail is tough. How difficult was the trail for Kate Matrosova?

Of course when an online forum discusses AT Difficulty it readily devolves down to the lowest denominator---how tough are the hills. The question then should be, How difficult is the AT in perfect conditions? This would be a fantasy question getting fantasy answers.

Tipi Walter

08-01-2017, 15:20

To be clear... I have only done the GA section. However, when I compare it to many "Wilderness Area" trails I have hiked since then, can say the AT section seemed easier. Note -- I did not say easy, but that really depends on how many miles you put in per day. So just agreeing, "its just walkin'". Not trying to piss off any die hard AT only fans, but more remote and less traveled trails are out there.

You remind me of the AT versus other "wilderness" trails. How difficult is a trail without blowdowns vs a trail obliterated with the things? A thousand times easier!!

Slo-go'en

08-01-2017, 16:09

Every state has sections of trail which test you. Even in "easy" states, it seems they go out of their way to make the trail "interesting" in places. Weather is also a factor. An otherwise easy section of trail can become a nightmare in stormy weather. A difficult section of trail can become deadly.

NH and ME might have some big climbs, but you can do more up and down in a day on a "flat" section of trail due to what I call "microbumps". These are the endless ups and downs along a ridge which are too small to show up on the profile map but wear you down. A fundamental rule of trail layout says "don't go around if you can go over", even if this means a 20 foot scramble up a pile of rocks.

KDogg

08-01-2017, 16:20

My hiking partners and I were up to 20 miles a day and then we hit NH. We slowed down to 10 a day throughout the Whites. We were up to 20 again in the 100 mile. Not sure what our average was but I'm sure it was many more days than what we thought it would be. Took us five and a half months. I think that is pretty average. Would have hated it if we had to stick to some sort of schedule that we came up with before the hike. Not sure how this compares to other trails but overall I found it very challenging and outright difficult at times. I'm older and by the end my knees were shot. For me the hardest part was to keep going every day when my knees were yelling at me to stop.

George

08-01-2017, 16:38

easy answer 5 1/2 months with 11 days off ( 1 per 2 weeks average )

evyck da fleet

08-01-2017, 16:50

ive never hiked GA but it does seem to me like there should be distinction made between the trail itself actually being difficult and people commonly having a hard time with it because they arent in hiking shape.

i suspect ME would have destroyed you had you gone there in the shape you were in that took 7 days to hike GA.

personally, i still cant wrap my head around the concept of someone who cant yet walk 15 miles in a day anywhere deciding to undertake walking 2100+, but it seems a lot of people do it.

I could walk 15 miles a day for three straight days before I started. The problem was I could do that in five hours and needed to build up to hiking all day and every day. There's no way I would have planned on doubling my distance in ME.

Like how some of my hardest days weren't the easy 30 milers it was only hiking 16 the next day because I needed more rest. Same for zeros: six straight 22 milers and I don't need a rest but 5 straight marathons and I do. After six days I had covered the same distance but in one scenario I had a zero in there. There are too many variables.

Planning was was much easier looking from one resupply to the next than trying to hit a place on a certain day.

clusterone

08-01-2017, 16:54

You remind me of the AT versus other "wilderness" trails. How difficult is a trail without blowdowns vs a trail obliterated with the things? A thousand times easier!!

Thousands! Was not trying to start that debate... Just got back from Brush Mountain (Ike Branch) of Citico. Now that is a trail! It made the North Fork Trail seem like a state park. Oh and thanks for the tape!

cmoulder

08-01-2017, 17:26

Climb at a pace you can maintain with reasonable effort, with the attitude that you get there when you get there, and before you know it you are there. :)

Filling your mind with angst and trying to hurry it up ain't gunna make it any quicker.

clusterone

08-01-2017, 17:31

[QUOTE=cmoulder;2162865]Climb at a pace you can maintain with reasonable effort, with the attitude that you get there when you get there, and before you know it you are there. :)
Outstanding CMoulder! You should get the great folks at Pack-it Gourmet to pay you for gems like that. They could print them like fortune cookie fortunes, and put one in every meal. Might just be the words to keep someone on the trail.

Another Kevin

08-01-2017, 17:51

I could walk 15 miles a day for three straight days before I started. The problem was I could do that in five hours and needed to build up to hiking all day and every day. There's no way I would have planned on doubling my distance in ME.

Like how some of my hardest days weren't the easy 30 milers it was only hiking 16 the next day because I needed more rest. Same for zeros: six straight 22 milers and I don't need a rest but 5 straight marathons and I do. After six days I had covered the same distance but in one scenario I had a zero in there. There are too many variables.

Planning was was much easier looking from one resupply to the next than trying to hit a place on a certain day.

You know, unless you were on a really tight timetable, you didn't need to build up from doing those 15 miles in five hours, or whatever. (I'm a lot slower than you.)

If you can average 14-mile days, and average one zero a week, you'll finish in six months. Even accounting for short mileage at the beginning (if you don't start out in trail shape) and in NH/ME, nobody has to do 20+-mile days.

Except that with the short days, I'd imagine that big swaths of Virginia and Maryland could get pretty boring.

Really, LW is right, it's just walking. You don't need to pound big miles, you just have to keep going.

Says a guy whose longest planned hike to date was about 140 miles, and while the plan was 13 days + two zeroes, the execution turned into 12 days + about two hundred zeroes. So take this with a grain of salt. But ... it's just division - 14 miles gozinta 2189 how many times? (Incidentally, because of starting out that hike in bad shape, I planned 8-12 mile days. I found that in the easy terrain that I encountered, that 12-15 was more comfortable, so I got to my resupplies early. Everything was fine until I fell down and hurt some things.)

SawnieRobertson

08-01-2017, 19:29

The first ten days out of Springer was the most difficult hiking I ever did. I thought Maine and NH was a breeze.

Cute, and says so much.

MuddyWaters

08-01-2017, 19:41

Attitude is everything
Along with a flexible schedule
Parts of the AT are much harder than others
But they are all just as hard as YOU make them
By the wt you carry, and miles you try to do per day.

Hiking south on CDT I once remarked to a nobo thru hiker I crossed paths with " Its a long way up to the pass".

He just smiled and said "Its a long way to Canada".

Thats the attitude.

evyck da fleet

08-01-2017, 20:23

You know, unless you were on a really tight timetable, you didn't need to build up from doing those 15 miles in five hours, or whatever. (I'm a lot slower than you.)

If you can average 14-mile days, and average one zero a week, you'll finish in six months. Even accounting for short mileage at the beginning (if you don't start out in trail shape) and in NH/ME, nobody has to do 20+-mile days.

Except that with the short days, I'd imagine that big swaths of Virginia and Maryland could get pretty boring.

Really, LW is right, it's just walking. You don't need to pound big miles, you just have to keep going.

Says a guy whose longest planned hike to date was about 140 miles, and while the plan was 13 days + two zeroes, the execution turned into 12 days + about two hundred zeroes. So take this with a grain of salt. But ... it's just division - 14 miles gozinta 2189 how many times? (Incidentally, because of starting out that hike in bad shape, I planned 8-12 mile days. I found that in the easy terrain that I encountered, that 12-15 was more comfortable, so I got to my resupplies early. Everything was fine until I fell down and hurt some things.)
If you want to half the miles to make it more relatable, do it. I just enjoyed hiking the green tunnel all day more than camping and I wound up doing more miles than I would have ever planned on most days. But if helped me figure out what kind of trips I like and that has been the important part.

Emerson Bigills

08-01-2017, 20:48

If you have hiked NH and ME, you know sometimes you are not "just walking". Just not true.

Another Kevin

08-01-2017, 20:54

If you have hiked NH and ME, you know sometimes you are not "just walking". Just not true.
I have.

It's just walking while clinging to rocks and tree roots for dear life. :)

Engine

08-01-2017, 21:04

Tipi Walter

08-01-2017, 22:02

Thousands! Was not trying to start that debate... Just got back from Brush Mountain (Ike Branch) of Citico. Now that is a trail! It made the North Fork Trail seem like a state park. Oh and thanks for the tape!

Ah yes, beloved Brush Mt---a wilderness trail so vastly different than the AT experience . . . and unknown by the vast majority of AT enthusiasts.

ScareBear

08-02-2017, 06:21

Yesterday we covered a bit over 17 miles in unusually warm weather on trail that varie greatly in difficulty. This morning we hiked only 9.4 miles into Rangely. Was it a hard two days? Nope...but I peed blood when I got to town today. I didn't drink enough due to a dry spring at one of the shelters and now I'm paying for it.

Even easy trail can bite you in bad weather.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

If that was really blood and not just really really dark urine, then it is not likely due to dehydration. Hematuria is a bad symptom. Get yourself to a doctor for blood work asap. Seriously. Unless you suffered physical trauma to a kidney, this is NOT A GOOD SIGN AND NOT LIKELY RELATED TO DEHYDRATION. I am assuming it is dark urine. Actual bright blood in your urine is something you need to go to the ER for immediately. I'm guessing it's a UTI, bladder infection or something along those lines in the urinary system. Although, acute kidney injury due to extreme physical exertion while severely dehydrated is a possibility as well but kinda rare. That's no bueno, either. I'd see a doc. Blood in urine is just never ever a sign of anything good...even if it's just a stone, you don't want a ureter blocked miles away from rescue...just sayin!

garlic08

08-02-2017, 08:38

There have been winter days when the three-mile walk to town has felt life-threatening. Other days, a Class 4 climb feels like a walk in the park.

Tipi Walter

08-02-2017, 10:10

There have been winter days when the three-mile walk to town has felt life-threatening. Other days, a Class 4 climb feels like a walk in the park.

Exactly. This reminds me of 10-K's account on his BMT Thruhike whereby he had to call out for rescue when it rained too much and he got caught on the wrong side of a raging river. How difficult was the trail then?

Or my experience last February during a 19 day trip when I caught a terrible 10 day long bout of influenza and/or norovirus with hacking coughs and was lucky to make 2 miles a day from camp to camp. How difficult were the trails I was on? Almost impossible.

tdoczi

08-02-2017, 15:32

Exactly. This reminds me of 10-K's account on his BMT Thruhike whereby he had to call out for rescue when it rained too much and he got caught on the wrong side of a raging river. How difficult was the trail then?

Or my experience last February during a 19 day trip when I caught a terrible 10 day long bout of influenza and/or norovirus with hacking coughs and was lucky to make 2 miles a day from camp to camp. How difficult were the trails I was on? Almost impossible.

it would have been even harder if you were in the whites, no?

sure, one trail that is easy on a sunny day might be hard on a rainy day, but if we assume constant variables i dont think there are many, if any trails where trail A is easier than trail B when its tunny on both of them, but suddenly if its raining in both palces trail A is the harder one.

compare apples to apples, not oranges.

that said, trail maintenance is an excellent point. there are trails, especially if you leave the AT, where they are harder than they would otherwise be, in any weather, because of their level and type of maintenance.

having recently spent 1.5 days hiking 36 miles on a trail that practically boasts about how poorly maintained it is, i think i can safely say i do not like these kinds of trails.

Rmcpeak

08-02-2017, 15:55

Depends how fast you walk. The slower you go, the easier it is. I like to average 1 mph overall, 2 mph while walking. Almost 700 miles now and this rule seems to hold up. I'm sure it will change when I go north but I ain't there yet.

MuddyWaters

08-02-2017, 19:57