View Full Version : Perhaps a "Hiking Basics" Forum?
Elaikases
08-02-2017, 08:01
Or something similar with the following stickied threads:
1. There is no best shoe --it really does depend on your feet.
2. How warm is that bag/quilt /- and what ratings mean, what you will really need.
3. How often is resupply possible and why you shouldn't carry extra food.
4. Yes. You need to filter or purify your water and you need to carry more than just a liter.
5. All about hiking poles and your knees.
6. 36-40 lbs is not ultralight. All about through hiking, weight and likelihood of injury and finishing.
7. No. You can't just kick a cat hole in the side of the hill in many places. You need a trowel.
8. Which pack is the best (and what size should I get) -- it all depends on your body build and preferences,
9. Etc.
Lifted from another thread, but it would make a good sub-forum for a set of stickies on often asked questions.
Just a thought.
Elaikases
08-02-2017, 08:51
What topics are missing from that list? What would you suggest?
illabelle
08-02-2017, 09:50
The concept is probably good. Newbies need a way to find answers quickly.
On the other hand, what's the fun in that? It's much more entertaining to watch a newbie getting roughed up for asking a simple question. And what would we do with our time if we couldn't rehash every topic a dozen times each year? :rolleyes:
Heliotrope
08-02-2017, 09:53
10. Do I need crocs to ford streams?
11. How much water should I carry?
12. What is the best stove?
13. Do I have to hang my food?
14. Why a quilt is better than a bag is better than a quilt is better than a bag..
15. Is Lone Wolf the ultimate hiking bad a**?
16. What should I buy with my REI dividend?
17. How many days does it take to hike the 100 MW?
18. Do section hikers truly deserve trail magic?
19. Is it okay if I blue blaze? Yellow blaze? Slackpack?
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Tipi Walter
08-02-2017, 10:04
Or something similar with the following stickied threads:
3. How often is resupply possible and why you shouldn't carry extra food.
6. 36-40 lbs is not ultralight. All about through hiking, weight and likelihood of injury and finishing.
7. No. You can't just kick a cat hole in the side of the hill in many places. You need a trowel.
Lifted from another thread, but it would make a good sub-forum for a set of stickies on often asked questions.
Just a thought.
Some of these are your opinion only. Since you titled this "Hiking Basics" in the General Forum---and not in the AT Thruhikers forum---(We have Other Trails here with non-AT backpackers who do just regular backpacking trips)---you can't assume that all hiking basics applies to long trail thruhikers.
That said, your comment "why you shouldn't carry extra food" is a purely subjective opinion on your part. Some backpackers want to stay out for 2 or 3 weeks without food resupply---and achieve a sort of unbroken connection to a "wilderness" of their choosing.
Your comment "36-40 lbs is not ultralight" is another purely subjective opinion, especially the comment about the likelihood of injury and finishing. Many backpackers carry in excess of 40 lbs and have great trips and wouldn't consider going lighter or consider using a lighter pack part of Hiking Basics. And they even finish their trips without injury.
Plus, I have learned that a cathole trowel is not needed when I can dig a deep cathole using the tip of my hiking pole as a claw to move the dirt for a hole. Just some thoughts.
And as far as AT Thruhiking Basics, Datto covered this exhaustively on a long-ago thread---
https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/118123-Datto-s-Top-Ten-Tips-for-2017-AT-Thru-hikers-In-Planning?highlight=
MuddyWaters
08-02-2017, 10:09
Simply pre-organize old posts by topic
If this site had a decent search function it would be easier
illabelle
08-02-2017, 10:14
...And as far as AT Thruhiking Basics, Datto covered this exhaustively on a long-ago thread---
https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/118123-Datto-s-Top-Ten-Tips-for-2017-AT-Thru-hikers-In-Planning?highlight=
Sadly, Datto hasn't been active on WB since that thread was closed. It was long-winded in places, and some got tired of it, but no one forced them to read it.
Tipi Walter
08-02-2017, 10:20
Sadly, Datto hasn't been active on WB since that thread was closed. It was long-winded in places, and some got tired of it, but no one forced them to read it.
I understand your comment as it became a sort of personal blog for him---and at times neverending. BUT . . . it's a fun read and educational, especially if you copy the whole thing (remember the Thread Tools with the Print Option??) and take it out on a backpacking trip to read and burn page by page (to lighten the load!).
But whenever someone who doesn't know about Datto's thread and wants to add hiking basics or tips here, I always try to link up to his exhaustive thread.
Sadly, Datto hasn't been active on WB since that thread was closed. It was long-winded in places, and some got tired of it, but no one forced them to read it.
I found Whiteblaze via that thread.
(And a topic: it is all just opinion -- 70 lb packs really aren't too heavy might be good too. ��).
But it might be good to make it easier on newbies.
And to break the topic areas up.
How to use the search function
How to use the search function
Those who need it the most would use it the least.
Coupled with "Search the Internet first."
Wayne
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"Thread has run its course. Members are encouraged to continue discussions on these topics into more specifically focused threads in whichever subforums are appropriate. Thanks."
Oh my ...! There definitely is a lot of good stuff in those 14 pages of posts. Since I haven't ever hiked or camped out much of it (and counter opinions) was new to me. I'm glad the posts are still viewable - yes, I did save a lot to a MS Word doc. [71 pages double-sided :O ] and in 2020 I'll be reading it on the trail and then using it to 1) start a fire 2) clean scat 3) there are endless uses...
Thanks for including the link in the thread: best reading I've had today along with out and out laughter at some of the stories.
Those who need it the most would use it the least.
Coupled with "Search the Internet first."
Wayne
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Which is how I found Whiteblaze.
:).
Good idea. The nuts and bolts of backpacking can be intimidating to some who are new to it.
NOT SENT FROM MY IPHONE USING TAPATALK SINCE I DON'T HAVE A STINKIN' IPHONE.
Which is how I found Whiteblaze.
:).
My point: Many questions here could have been answered with an elementary internet search.
Wayne
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Hiking Basics:
The Complete Walker by Colin Fletcher.
Done.
Wayne
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Good idea. The nuts and bolts of backpacking can be intimidating to some who are new to it.
NOT SENT FROM MY IPHONE USING TAPATALK SINCE I DON'T HAVE A STINKIN' IPHONE.
not to mention sorting out good advice from bad advice can be difficult.
20. Yes, wool socks, wool in other places.
since internet searches told me to wear cotton and that goretex boots were essential, trail runners a mistake.
And a a five pound Gregory was the ultimate hiking backpack.
But that is obviously good enough for some. It just isn't for me.
rocketsocks
08-02-2017, 22:52
https://whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php/366-Released-Articles
Spoiler alert.
The book only recommends boots.
Etc.
Hiking Basics:
The Complete Walker by Colin Fletcher.
Done.
Wayne
ZSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1968.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Walker
Might as well tell people all they need is to watch the movies version of A Walk in the Woods.
https://smile.amazon.com/Complete-Walker-IV-Colin-Fletcher/dp/0375703233/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501728956&sr=8-1&keywords=the+complete+walker
2002 The Complete Walker IV
;)
https://whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php/366-Released-Articles
An excellent start. I've read a lot of them. Covers stoves and cooking well.
Spoiler alert.
The book only recommends boots.
Etc.
1968.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Walker
Might as well tell people all they need is to watch the movies version of A Walk in the Woods.
A bit of common sense helps regarding equipment. A bit of common sense seems to be lacking in the general population these days.
Fletcher's philosophy and day to day trail routine have not gone out of style.
As for Internet searching, a recent thread asking for freeze dried lentils turned up numerous sources that the OP either missed or had not searched for.
The current practice seems to be expecting to be spoon fed information without bothering to do any personal homework.
Back in the day, a 9 day JMT hike without resupply or 350 miles between resupply on what would become the PCT worked for the handful of folks who were backpacking at the time. That was not wrong. Just different.
Wayne
PS: The SVEA 123 stove has been on the market since forever. It's still a viable option today.
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[QUOTE=Venchka;2163221]
PS: The SVEA 123 stove has been on the market since forever. It's still a viable option today.
I love the Svea and Optimus stoves, having grown up with them. However, while they are fine for a few days on the trail they really don't work for long haul hiking anymore. Too hard to resupply fuel. I still enjoy hearing the sound of a Svea 123 though.
rocketsocks
08-03-2017, 11:03
[QUOTE=Venchka;2163221]
PS: The SVEA 123 stove has been on the market since forever. It's still a viable option today.
I love the Svea and Optimus stoves, having grown up with them. However, while they are fine for a few days on the trail they really don't work for long haul hiking anymore. Too hard to resupply fuel. I still enjoy hearing the sound of a Svea 123 though.the only thing that changed is the amount of fuel weight carried, a half gallon of fuel is roughly 4 lbs...I can loose that in my morning constitutional.
rocketsocks
08-03-2017, 11:05
...admittedly though, I've never weighed one :D
Puddlefish
08-03-2017, 11:22
The whole point of internet forums is so people can interact with each other. Gear is always evolving, trails are always changing, customs and communities change. Different points of view are expressed, and everyone learns more in the long run. The website sells advertising and remains available as a resource.
The whole point of internet forums is so people can interact with each other. Gear is always evolving, trails are always changing, customs and communities change. Different points of view are expressed, and everyone learns more in the long run. The website sells advertising and remains available as a resource.
Translation. From casual observation.
1. I'm clueless and too lazy to research and learn on my own.
2. Tell me what I need to know.
3. I'm still clueless and I will argue with you.
Self directed research is a lost art.
As for SVEA type stoves, carry both white gas and kerosene jets. I see kerosene for sale in the TN & NC mountains. A liter of white gas could last 400-450 miles. Perhaps longer.
Pay no attention. I was never here.
Wayne
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Your comment "36-40 lbs is not ultralight" is another purely subjective opinion, especially the comment about the likelihood of injury and finishing. Many backpackers carry in excess of 40 lbs and have great trips and wouldn't consider going lighter or consider using a lighter pack part of Hiking Basics. And they even finish their trips without injury.
Actually there are numerous instances of common definitions, google is your friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultralight_backpacking
http://blog.gossamergear.com/lightweight-backpacking-conundrum
Carrying overweight packs, camped by the road is not in any of them.
rocketsocks
08-03-2017, 14:25
Actually there are numerous instances of common definitions, google is your friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultralight_backpacking
http://blog.gossamergear.com/lightweight-backpacking-conundrum
Carrying overweight packs, camped by the road is not in any of them.these are relatively new terms as gear manufacturers and technology changed, google wasn't even around when ultralight was 36 pounds.
illabelle
08-03-2017, 14:35
Translation. From casual observation.
1. I'm clueless and too lazy to research and learn on my own.
2. Tell me what I need to know.
3. I'm still clueless and I will argue with you.
Self directed research is a lost art.
As for SVEA type stoves, carry both white gas and kerosene jets. I see kerosene for sale in the TN & NC mountains. A liter of white gas could last 400-450 miles. Perhaps longer.
Pay no attention. I was never here.
Wayne
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I think maybe the point being made is that asking the WB community IS RESEARCH. Ain't nothing wrong with that perspective.
A while back I think it was Lnj who started a rant thread about this very issue. And here (https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/117569-RANT-Warning-quot-Look-it-up-Search-quot)it is, with an excerpt:
This is a forum/site designated for serious hikers, whether it be thru-hikers, section hikers or weekend warriors or even wanna be's, so it stands to reason that if I go on to this site and ask a question of all the many many, what I would consider "authorities" on the subject, that I am IN FACT searching, and looking it up. I am going to the place where many pros congregate to chat about what I want to know about. I consider coming to this site the very act of "looking it up". Why must I dig down to the first grain ever sprouted on a subject to get a respectful answer? Not only do people answer with "look it up", but they are often quite rude about it. Why is that?
Puddlefish
08-03-2017, 14:44
Translation. From casual observation.
1. I'm clueless and too lazy to research and learn on my own.
2. Tell me what I need to know.
3. I'm still clueless and I will argue with you.
Self directed research is a lost art.
As for SVEA type stoves, carry both white gas and kerosene jets. I see kerosene for sale in the TN & NC mountains. A liter of white gas could last 400-450 miles. Perhaps longer.
Pay no attention. I was never here.
Wayne
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Sometimes people want to be part of a community. Much like on the trail, people tend to talk about generalities when they first meet. About weather, about gear, about trail conditions.
Stop being a lazy whippersnapper, and do the research yourself! Kids these days, too lazy sew their own backpacks from canvas and twine! In real life, on the trail, is this how you greet a newcomer when they ask, "How do you like your pack?"
Maybe they're asking, because they want a straight answer from a variety of experienced hikers, and because they don't want to trust manufacturers' or sellers' claims. Maybe they read "Call of the Wild" and want to know if the wilderness has changed since 1903?
No, that can't be it, it has to be because they're lazy, and doing things the right way (my old way) is a lost art. Seriously, you should be pleased that they're bothering to ask your opinion as a first option.
A bit of common sense helps regarding equipment. A bit of common sense seems to be lacking in the general population these days.
Fletcher's philosophy and day to day trail routine have not gone out of style.
As for Internet searching, a recent thread asking for freeze dried lentils turned up numerous sources that the OP either missed or had not searched for.
The current practice seems to be expecting to be spoon fed information without bothering to do any personal homework.
Back in the day, a 9 day JMT hike without resupply or 350 miles between resupply on what would become the PCT worked for the handful of folks who were backpacking at the time. That was not wrong. Just different.
Wayne
PS: The SVEA 123 stove has been on the market since forever. It's still a viable option today.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
good points.
Though stoves are another topic. :)
A bit of common sense helps regarding equipment. A bit of common sense seems to be lacking in the general population these days.
Fletcher's philosophy and day to day trail routine have not gone out of style.
As for Internet searching, a recent thread asking for freeze dried lentils turned up numerous sources that the OP either missed or had not searched for.
The current practice seems to be expecting to be spoon fed information without bothering to do any personal homework.
Back in the day, a 9 day JMT hike without resupply or 350 miles between resupply on what would become the PCT worked for the handful of folks who were backpacking at the time. That was not wrong. Just different.
Wayne
PS: The SVEA 123 stove has been on the market since forever. It's still a viable option today.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What was interesting is that no sources for freeze dried lentils showed up. Dehydrated did and the majority of those had cooking times of a half hour or so.
What did surface is that there is lentil soup that cooks in three minutes and fits the place freeze dried would fit.
If you didn't know about the soups you could do easily conclude that taking lentils would end up the way all the two pound bags of beans in the hiker boxes do (something I see from time to time on my section hiking).
A google search for freeze dried lentils (which was run before the post was made) came up empty.
Learning that the soup fits the place it would fit explains why you can find freeze dried refried beans but no lentils (they both have similar cooking uses). No one seems to make a quick prepare refried bean soup.
Starchild
08-03-2017, 16:17
Most of the time on the AT I carried less than 1/2 a liter of water.
I think maybe the point being made is that asking the WB community IS RESEARCH. Ain't nothing wrong with that perspective.
A while back I think it was Lnj who started a rant thread about this very issue. And here (https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/117569-RANT-Warning-quot-Look-it-up-Search-quot)it is, with an excerpt:
Just attach another point to my original rant before, but in a much lighter mood now :), The reason that I chose to use Whiteblaze as my "Google" on topics all things backpacking/hiking, is because of a certain level of vetting that i am able to do by reading RESEARCHING on this site. See, I and all newbies, can Google any topic under the sun and what is received back is akin to something like trying to get a sip from a fire hose. And.... the flooding of info that is received is based on key words in the search which can be interpreted on the net in any number of ways, as in a trowel via google will bring up every gardening tool every produced on the planet, not just the particular type I am interested in. I can further narrow my google search to cat hole diggers and end up with 5000 pages of litter boxes and the like.
If I come here, I can spends time Researching the posters here. I can read what they have done, where they have gone, how long they have been out, where they live and I can develop my own personal opinion about said posters and decide for myself who among you all I trust to know what I want to know. Who is the "pro" in my own opinion. Then when I ask a question to the broad public here, I am going to get very succinct answers based on real experience and knowledge. Yes, i will still get opposing opinions and lots of them, but they are specialized opinions and not sales based. Its then up to me to decide for myself from a much narrower field of options. This to me is more valuable than google.
I think this whole site is a Newbie site. I asked once before and will again now... Who is the hiker/backpacker that is sage in experience and mileage, officially anything BUT a newbie, that can come here and learn something new? Notta one. So this is the hiker/backpacker virtual hangout with every level of experience and non-experience and thats why we love it so. :) Even the crotchety, grumpy old men are fun to play with sometimes. I know they hot buttons now and when I get bored... I just push one and watch the feathers fly. Its fabulous.
methodman
08-03-2017, 17:55
I too feel that there is no harm in anyone at any level asking questions . Why must everything seem to end up being an argument over the validity of the thread. No one has to read a thread they think is invalid.
Don't overthink it. There is no magic pill that you can take that will make you a thru hiker. I did a thru last year and had relatively little experience with backpacking. One thing I did to prepare was spent hours on this forum. It helped a lot but you do have to take the advice here with a grain of salt. Not sure how to explain it but the thru hikers I interacted with last year, including myself, did things quite a bit different than many of the folks here suggest. This is true of the advice I read on this site this year as well. My only explanation for it is that there is a significant difference between section hiking and thru hiking and the advice gets all mixed together here. I changed out a couple major items and many minor items in the first 500 miles. This was not unusual. Thru hikers were spending big money between Mountain Crossings and Damascus on new gear. If you are going to be hiking for 2,000 miles you don't just live with a piece of gear that is not really working out for you. This can mean the difference between success and failure. Try to make good decisions but also give yourself the option of a purchase on the trail if you can.
Elaikases
08-03-2017, 23:00
Don't overthink it. There is no magic pill that you can take that will make you a thru hiker. I did a thru last year and had relatively little experience with backpacking. One thing I did to prepare was spent hours on this forum. It helped a lot but you do have to take the advice here with a grain of salt. Not sure how to explain it but the thru hikers I interacted with last year, including myself, did things quite a bit different than many of the folks here suggest. This is true of the advice I read on this site this year as well. My only explanation for it is that there is a significant difference between section hiking and thru hiking and the advice gets all mixed together here. I changed out a couple major items and many minor items in the first 500 miles. This was not unusual. Thru hikers were spending big money between Mountain Crossings and Damascus on new gear. If you are going to be hiking for 2,000 miles you don't just live with a piece of gear that is not really working out for you. This can mean the difference between success and failure. Try to make good decisions but also give yourself the option of a purchase on the trail if you can.
That is really nicely said. Thank you.
Most of the time on the AT I carried less than 1/2 a liter of water.
I have met people who did that and had already finished half the trail.
I've met people who never filtered. Did a section last year where the water was 10-12 miles apart and I was filtering a trickle out of a culvert and grateful.
It is proof of that conditions and needs vary.
In the Georgia drought and heat we were passed by a hiker, long and lean, going 5-6 mph and not breaking a sweat. His pack was tiny --it looked like his total carried weight was 14-15 lbs.
there re is a lot of variation.