View Full Version : Nonstick titanium cookware
DownEaster
08-10-2017, 11:12
Is there any titanium backpacking cookware that's really nonstick? Evernew has what they describe as "Non-Stick Coating using an organic Non-teflon, Silicone based ceramic coating" (see here (http://www.evernewamerica.com/overview-1/)); however, a WB commenter here (https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/126031-WTB-1-3L-Cookpot?p=2163799&viewfull=1#post2163799) says the nonstick coating works poorly (food burns and leaves permanent marks). There's apparently a nonstick frying pan from Keith Titanium (Keith Ti8150, available here (https://www.fasttech.com/product/6958500-keith-ti8150-outdoor-camping-picnic-non-stick)), but I haven't been able to find out the composition of the nonstick coating or any performance info. There's an REI Co-op Ti Ware Nonstick Titanium Cookset (here (https://www.rei.com/product/764178/rei-co-op-ti-ware-nonstick-titanium-cookset)), but it appears to be the same type of coating Evernew uses and the very first review says food burns and sticks, and a spatula scratches the coating.
I want something that performs as well as my GSI Extreme Mess Kit (hard anodized aluminum with concentric ridges on the bottoms to conduct heat evenly, and Teflon coating inside). I made some scrumptious pancakes in the mess kit frypan (three 7.5" fluffy pancakes, one at a time). The sturdy aluminum construction is excellent for conducting heat, but it's heavy: 15.3 oz. for the 1 quart pot, frypan/pot lid, removable handle, and mesh sack. Switching to titanium would save some weight, but it's a bad idea if the replacement cookware is disastrous at anything beyond boiling water.
I have always avoided nonstick coatings. To eliminate burned food on the bottom of my cookpot, I use a cozy rather than simmering once I have added things to boiling water (as water is being absorbed into dehydrated food and it is cooked). Ten or so minutes in the cozy equals 7 minutes of simmering. For pancakes or similar items, I use some type of cooking oil. Has always worked well for me with easy cleanup.
DownEaster
08-10-2017, 13:30
OK, so that's nice for you. However, it doesn't help me; I explicitly said I want something that performs as well as my Teflon-coated GSI mess kit.
clusterone
08-10-2017, 13:47
FWIW - I have seasoned my Ti cookware with coconut oil, just as you would season cast-iron. Does change the color, but works great. Key thing I have noticed is cooking over a fire always works better than over any sort of camp stove. This seems to simply be that most of the heat is not distributed as well with a camp stove. Thus you end up with that hot spot in the center of the pan. Of course it also greatly depends on what you are cooking, and how frequent you stir it. For larger meals (when with others) I like the 9inch version of this pan:
https://www.msrgear.com/cookware/quick-skillet
Cleaning tip - Just add some water to the pan, set back in fire. After that water warms up, and stuck food can be scrapped off with a small rubber spatula, or even just a stick(sticks don't scratch the metal)
clusterone
08-10-2017, 13:59
FWIW - I have seasoned my Ti cookware with coconut oil, just as you would season cast-iron. Does change the color, but works great. Key thing I have noticed is cooking over a fire always works better than over any sort of camp stove. This seems to simply be that most of the heat is not distributed as well with a camp stove. Thus you end up with that hot spot in the center of the pan. Of course it also greatly depends on what you are cooking, and how frequent you stir it. For larger meals (when with others) I like the 9inch version of this pan:
https://www.msrgear.com/cookware/quick-skillet
Cleaning tip - Just add some water to the pan, set back in fire. After that water warms up, and stuck food can be scrapped off with a small rubber spatula, or even just a stick(sticks don't scratch the metal)
Oh and as QiWiz mentioned, a small amount of oil goes a very long way. Packet Gourmet (the best bag food I have found) has olive oil packet in many of their meals. Helps with the sticking/burn factor and adds flavor and calories. Just wipe the pan out with some dry pine needles (then burn them) to get any residual oil out of the pan.
Ti is not very good for real cooking . Aluminum is much better .
thom
Flounder940
08-10-2017, 14:33
So I'm the one who's got a problem? I asked for information about nonstick cookware, and this guy ignored what I asked and suggested I should do things his way instead.
He didn't tell you to do it his way, he offered viable alternatives to your problem.
Apparently titanium is good for boiling water, and aluminum is good for cooking with less chance of food burning as it disperses heat more evenly and boils water faster. Unsure if there is a workable solution to titanium's propensity to burn food
Is there any titanium backpacking cookware that's really nonstick?
NO, none available.
DownEaster
08-10-2017, 15:11
He didn't tell you to do it his way, he offered viable alternatives to your problem.
You've failed to discern my problem, then. I've got nonstick cookware, so I don't need alternative cooking methods. My problem is that I'm searching for information on lighter cookware that's also nonstick. Suggesting that I can add oil to my pancakes (and thereby alter the flavor) solves someone else's problem, not mine.
Last Call
08-10-2017, 15:33
DownEaster - Just carry a small can of PAM or other name / off brand cooking spray, or even an eyedropper bottle size container of cooking grease....easy problem to solve.
Flounder940
08-10-2017, 15:44
Let me summarize things for you:1.You have a heavy cook kit that you can use to make some awesome frickin pancakes.2.You really want titanium cookware that doesn't burn food.3.You want non-stick because you want to avoid burning food and stuff sticking to the pot4.You've done a lot of research but haven't found anything that looks like it will avoid burning food.Someone offers advice on avoiding burning food(specifically addresses pancakes) with regular cookware ...
here's something I have often wondered about....
as a cast iron cook, I know that a nicely seasoned cast iron skillet can be very non-stick. Maybe not teflon, but with just a drop of fat just about as good.
Now this non-stick trait comes from a nice smooth coating of carbon on the surface, right?
so, why couldn't a person season a steel pan.... or even a Ti one?
it's something I have always wanted to try.....
DownEaster
08-10-2017, 16:26
DownEaster - Just carry a small can of PAM or other name / off brand cooking spray, or even an eyedropper bottle size container of cooking grease....easy problem to solve.
Once again, that changes the taste of the food being cooked. PAM has Canola Oil, Palm Oil, Coconut Oil, and Lecithin from Soybeans. The point of using nonstick cookware is that I can enjoy the taste of my food without these additives. Adding various oils to cookware that isn't nonstick is solving someone else's problem. It's not helping me solve my problem, which is explicitly finding lighter nonstick cookware.
DownEaster
08-10-2017, 16:35
Let me summarize things for you:1.You have a heavy cook kit that you can use to make some awesome frickin pancakes.2.You really want titanium cookware that doesn't burn food.3.You want non-stick because you want to avoid burning food and stuff sticking to the pot
You still haven't caught on. I want nonstick cookware because it keeps food from burning and sticking without ruining the flavor of pancakes and other tasty food the way adding oil does. You and others insisting that I have to ruin my food because saving weight is more important than taste is just frustrating the heck out of me.
Flounder940
08-10-2017, 16:42
Once again, that changes the taste of the food being cooked. PAM has Canola Oil, Palm Oil, Coconut Oil, and Lecithin from Soybeans. The point of using nonstick cookware is that I can enjoy the taste of my food without these additives. Adding various oils to cookware that isn't nonstick is solving someone else's problem. It's not helping me solve my problem, which is explicitly finding lighter nonstick cookware.
At no point in your posts until now have you stated that you wanted non-stick to avoid changing the flavor of foods. People are just trying to help you with the problem or non-stick...
Flounder940
08-10-2017, 16:46
I have always avoided nonstick coatings. To eliminate burned food on the bottom of my cookpot, I use a cozy rather than simmering once I have added things to boiling water (as water is being absorbed into dehydrated food and it is cooked). Ten or so minutes in the cozy equals 7 minutes of simmering. For pancakes or similar items, I use some type of cooking oil. Has always worked well for me with easy cleanup.
Downeaster...here's how you could have handled this:
Thanks for the reply QiWiz, but I want to avoid adding cooking oils or other non-stick spray methods because I don't like the way it changes the taste of my food, which is really important to me. My main goals are to lighten my cook kit with something in titanium that offers the benefits of non-stick coatings, but one that is better than the cheap Toaks offerings that are on the market. Thanks again though.
clusterone
08-10-2017, 16:53
You can season Ti, works well... see my post above yours.
here's something I have often wondered about....
as a cast iron cook, I know that a nicely seasoned cast iron skillet can be very non-stick. Maybe not teflon, but with just a drop of fat just about as good.
Now this non-stick trait comes from a nice smooth coating of carbon on the surface, right?
so, why couldn't a person season a steel pan.... or even a Ti one?
it's something I have always wanted to try.....
Starchild
08-10-2017, 17:30
Once again, that changes the taste of the food being cooked. PAM has Canola Oil, Palm Oil, Coconut Oil, and Lecithin from Soybeans. The point of using nonstick cookware is that I can enjoy the taste of my food without these additives. Adding various oils to cookware that isn't nonstick is solving someone else's problem. It's not helping me solve my problem, which is explicitly finding lighter nonstick cookware.
They are not really additives, but part of the recipes. Oil/fat selection is a important part of cooking stuff right.
DownEaster
08-10-2017, 17:31
You've failed to discern my problem, then. I've got nonstick cookware, so I don't need alternative cooking methods. My problem is that I'm searching for information on lighter cookware that's also nonstick. Suggesting that I can add oil to my pancakes (and thereby alter the flavor) solves someone else's problem, not mine.
At no point in your posts until now have you stated that you wanted non-stick to avoid changing the flavor of foods.
Emphasis added. However, is it really necessary to explain why I just want information about nonstick titanium cookware, when I explicitly asked for help about nonstick titanium cookware, in a thread I labeled "Nonstick titanium cookware"?
Starchild
08-10-2017, 17:32
Your cheap toaks might be the best option for what you want to do, but season it. Toaks has a rougher finish which is what one needs to season it. Other then that there is this double Ti cooker which can be used as a pressure cooker with the right adapter which may be what you are looking for.
Flounder940
08-10-2017, 17:33
Emphasis added. However, is it really necessary to explain why I just want information about nonstick titanium cookware, when I explicitly asked for help about nonstick titanium cookware, in a thread I labeled "Nonstick titanium cookware"?
I guess you missed by post above:
Downeaster...here's how you could have handled this:
Thanks for the reply QiWiz, but I want to avoid adding cooking oils or other non-stick spray methods because I don't like the way it changes the taste of my food, which is really important to me. My main goals are to lighten my cook kit with something in titanium that offers the benefits of non-stick coatings, but one that is better than the cheap Toaks offerings that are on the market. Thanks again though.
Mountain Wildman
08-10-2017, 18:00
I have been on the same search as you DownEaster, to have a pot I can actually cook in without the risk of burning my food, I am a very attentive cook and haven't burned anything in over 30 years, until I turned away from my Evernew 1.3L Non stick pot for a minute or less, it burned that quickly on the lowest setting with my Snow Peak Ti-Lite stove, I resigned myself to buying an MSR 1.3L Anodized Aluminum Quick Pot and upon my search found that MSR had a new MSR Ceramic 1.3L Pot so I bought that instead, I only tested it once but it did not burn a rice side while I completely ignored it, my Evernew weighs 5.8 oz. and the MSR Ceramic weighs 7.4 oz., In my case, I've decided to carry the extra ounces since it does not affect my 15 to 17 lb. base weight too much, I tried the cozy option that so many prefer but my rice side was still chewy after minutes in the cozy, I prefer my food to be fully cooked and tender instead of chewy, but to each his own.
This may not answer your question but hope it helps, FWIW, IMHO, HYOH, LOL!!!!! :sun
Mountain Wildman
08-10-2017, 18:05
I have been on the same search as you DownEaster, to have a pot I can actually cook in without the risk of burning my food, I am a very attentive cook and haven't burned anything in over 30 years, until I turned away from my Evernew 1.3L Non stick pot for a minute or less, it burned that quickly on the lowest setting with my Snow Peak Ti-Lite stove, I resigned myself to buying an MSR 1.3L Anodized Aluminum Quick Pot and upon my search found that MSR had a new MSR Ceramic 1.3L Pot so I bought that instead, I only tested it once but it did not burn a rice side while I completely ignored it, my Evernew weighs 5.8 oz. and the MSR Ceramic weighs 7.4 oz., In my case, I've decided to carry the extra ounces since it does not affect my 15 to 17 lb. base weight too much, I tried the cozy option that so many prefer but my rice side was still chewy after minutes in the cozy, I prefer my food to be fully cooked and tender instead of chewy, but to each his own.
This may not answer your question but hope it helps, FWIW, IMHO, HYOH, LOL!!!!! :sun
I meant to say 20 minutes in the cozy in my above comment.
TexasBob
08-10-2017, 21:53
You still haven't caught on. I want nonstick cookware because it keeps food from burning and sticking without ruining the flavor of pancakes and other tasty food the way adding oil does. You and others insisting that I have to ruin my food because saving weight is more important than taste is just frustrating the heck out of me.
Do you cook at home? Have you cooked pancakes without oil in a non stick pan on your stove at home? My experience is that even non stick cookware does better with some oil or butter. Titanium cookware is much thinner than aluminum cookware and that is the reason it is more likely to burn than aluminum. I cook with an Evernew non stick 0.9 L pot on an alcohol stove without burning problems. You must watch it carefully and be very attentive. If that is too much trouble then stay with the cookware you already have and enjoy your pancakes.
DownEaster
08-10-2017, 22:29
Have you cooked pancakes without oil in a non stick pan on your stove at home?
Yes; I tried the GSI mess kit frypan on my kitchen's gas cooktop. I've babied this fairly new kit, so the Teflon is in excellent shape. I know it won't last forever, but I'm enjoying it while it does.
My experience is that even non stick cookware does better with some oil or butter.
Oh, I agree. Ideally I'd have some unsalted butter for making pancakes. Unfortunately, that isn't really practical to bring along backpacking just for pancakes twice a week.
I've read some use a one egg wonder pan with the handle removed.
Thom
cmoulder
08-11-2017, 07:32
Oh, I agree. Ideally I'd have some unsalted butter for making pancakes. Unfortunately, that isn't really practical to bring along backpacking just for pancakes twice a week.
Make your own GHEE (http://thehealthyfoodie.com/homemade-ghee/) with unsalted butter.
Make your own GHEE (http://thehealthyfoodie.com/homemade-ghee/) with unsalted butter.[/COLOR]
i use grape seed oil for trail popcorn it is flavorless, can stand high heat .
Thom
cmoulder
08-11-2017, 07:39
You can also make your own "scorchbuster" that will diffuse the heat from the stove. All that's needed is the bottom of a large tomato can (or some such) that is about 5" in diameter. Put this on the pot support and use 3 small pebbles to raise the pot bottom above the scorchbuster a few millimeters. Works wonders to reduce burned food.
TexasBob
08-11-2017, 10:40
......... Ideally I'd have some unsalted butter for making pancakes. Unfortunately, that isn't really practical to bring along backpacking just for pancakes twice a week.
I usually go backpacking in the cooler months and I take butter with me and put it in everything.
Make your own GHEE (http://thehealthyfoodie.com/homemade-ghee/) with unsalted butter.[/COLOR]
Here is an easy way to make clarified butter which is similar to ghee.
http://www.thegraciouswife.com/how-to-make-clarified-butter-in-the-microwave/
You can also make your own "scorchbuster" that will diffuse the heat from the stove. All that's needed is the bottom of a large tomato can (or some such) that is about 5" in diameter. Put this on the pot support and use 3 small pebbles to raise the pot bottom above the scorchbuster a few millimeters. Works wonders to reduce burned food.
I made my own stainless steel mesh "scorchbuster" this morning, going to do some baking 40057
40058
BuckeyeBill
08-11-2017, 16:10
My Grandmother taught me how to cook (to bad she didn't teach my mom) and the first thing she said was "You never have to cook on a high setting, no matter what you are making." This is where as hikers we have a problem. Alcohol stoves are lightweight and burn well enough, but some people have little patience to learn how to use them even though they are easy. Canister stoves are convenient and easy to use, but a majority of them are either all the way on or all the way off, you don't have a choice. Some you can adjust but it is hit or miss. Stoves like the Pocket Rocket fall into this category. Finally we have the fully adjustable stove that people won't use just because it is the heaviest of all the stoves. MSR Dragonfly is an example of this stove. Some people complain and they are right, that they sound like a jet taking off. But if you really want to cook, simmer and make food close to home cooking it is the stove you want.
So Downeaster it may not be the pans you are using, but the stove you are using. Although Zelph I look forward to seeing your results on the scorchbuster.
OK, so that's nice for you. However, it doesn't help me; I explicitly said I want something that performs as well as my Teflon-coated GSI mess kit.
I guess what I was trying to communicate is that you do not need a coating to have good performance cooking method. Sorry to have offended.
cmoulder
08-11-2017, 16:52
I guess what I was trying to communicate is that you do not need a coating to have good performance cooking method. Sorry to have offended.
I don't know why some people's first reaction is to violate Wheaton's Law (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/wheatons-law). :o
I violate it sometimes, although usually after trying "nice" first.
DownEaster
08-11-2017, 20:24
So Downeaster it may not be the pans you are using, but the stove you are using.
Nope; I've got that (mostly) covered with a Primus OmniLite Ti, which adjusts smoothly throughout a wide range of heat settings. I'm paying for better stove capabilities with extra weight, of course. The only part that I need to fix is the sound, which is reminiscent of a jet engine when I boil water. The replacement silencer head is back-ordered.
Last Call
08-11-2017, 22:07
ahhhh, okay....the other simple solution is to just grease the pan before getting on the trail = no packing grease, problem solved!
(Thank me later)
cmoulder
08-12-2017, 06:55
Pancakes cook quickly so another option is to pick up the frypan and move it around over the flame as you cook. ;)
There is no substitute for mass; very thin pans, whether made of Ti or Al, are not going to magically diffuse heat enough to prevent scorching.
clusterone
08-12-2017, 08:20
This thread has become ridiculous. That is downeaster does not want advice, but magic! At this point I suggest you just stick to boiling water.
cmoulder
08-12-2017, 09:01
This thread has become ridiculous. That is downeaster does not want advice, but magic! At this point I suggest you just stick to boiling water.
True this. ^^^^^^^^
And with such a heavy WG stove setup it is bordering on pointless to cut 4 or 5 oz of weight from the cookware, whatever the rationale.
Further, lest that be mistaken for some kind of UL snobbery, it isn't — it is just simple fact when looking at the % difference in cook system weight and especially total pack weight — and the comments I've offered are intended to help the OP use what he's got. I've always said, and I truly feel, that if you want to carry all that stuff it's fine with me.
BuckeyeBill
08-12-2017, 09:22
Nope; I've got that (mostly) covered with a Primus OmniLite Ti, which adjusts smoothly throughout a wide range of heat settings. I'm paying for better stove capabilities with extra weight, of course. The only part that I need to fix is the sound, which is reminiscent of a jet engine when I boil water. The replacement silencer head is back-ordered.
Sounds like you have covered your bases. While I have never seen non-stick mess kits, I am sure that in the future, that new cooper? non-stick coating will be out in mess kits.
MtDoraDave
08-12-2017, 09:59
I bought this set on sale for $40 or $45 a few years ago. Stoic (Backcountry house brand?) looks exactly like toaks, but has nonstick coating. I bought it when it was being discontinued - but if you search the interwebs, you may still find it somewhere. The nonstick has worked well for my instant oatmeals, instant mashed potatoes, and every flavor of Knorr I've cooked... though I've never tried "cooking" pancakes or anything like it.
It is a 3 pc set (iirc), a 1.1 liter and a 1.3 liter set, sharing one lid. I only bring one pot and the lid with me on my hikes (and a ti coffee cup).
https://assets.trailspace.com/assets/8/5/7/3147863/ONECOL.jpg
DownEaster
08-12-2017, 10:51
Sounds like you have covered your bases. While I have never seen non-stick mess kits, I am sure that in the future, that new cooper? non-stick coating will be out in mess kits.
Here's a picture:
40064
I'm ditching the included blue plastic containers.
Rallywagon
08-16-2017, 11:20
http://www.campsaver.com/outlet/evernew-titanium-ns-pot-set