What crossing needs to be improved

[Starchild]

Talk recently about the Kennebec River and the Palisades Parkway 'at grade' crossing has me thinking, where does the trail need major infrastructure improvement as it's next major project?

[tdoczi]

the only time i ever felt any real peril was doing the roadwalk into duncannon at night where the road the trail is following goes under a small overpass and there is barely a shoulder.

the crossing of the PIP is isnt that bad, mostly because it can be done in 2 parts

[Sarcasm the elf]

Palisades, hands down. First time I crossed it was at 4:45 on a Friday. The cars are always going over 65mph and the crosswalk isn't even painted so most drivers are not expecting to watch out for pedestrians.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

Talk recently about the Kennebec River and the Palisades Parkway 'at grade' crossing has me thinking, where does the trail need major infrastructure improvement as it's next major project?
Neither of those two places merit any changes. Focus on all the trashed out trails, stinky shelters, and overflowing privies.

[The Kisco Kid]

How about the potential of the Mountain Valley Pipeline crossing the trail in Virginia? The best way to improve that situation is to kill the project

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/conservation/advocacy/mountain-valley-pipeline

[Starchild]

Neither of those two places merit any changes. Focus on all the trashed out trails, stinky shelters, and overflowing privies.

Perhaps you are right in the respect that the place of the Norovirus 'crossing' might merit the changes you propose.

[Another Kevin]

Palisades, hands down. First time I crossed it was at 4:45 on a Friday. The cars are always going over 65mph and the crosswalk isn't even painted so most drivers are not expecting to watch out for pedestrians.

It's signed. But these are NYC commuters. They know to watch out. They just don't care. :eek:

[somers515]

It's signed. But these are NYC commuters. They know to watch out. They just don't care. :eek:

Ha! When I hiked it was fine but it wasn't rush hour. Still Sarcasm has a good point - shouldn't they paint a crosswalk there at least? That wouldn't be too expensive.

[Starchild]

Ha! When I hiked it was fine but it wasn't rush hour. Still Sarcasm has a good point - shouldn't they paint a crosswalk there at least? That wouldn't be too expensive.

Crosswalk would not matter as this is a high speed, limited access (and historically protected*) road. By the time they see the crosswalk they already have run over the hiker.


* Historically protected: (I forget the real term but...) It is hard to even get driver safety improvements or signage on those roads so they comfort to their original purpose, to be part of the peaceful visit to the park but allow high speed travel.

[Last Call]

That shelter on Blood Mountain could certainly use air conditioning, last time I was there it had a "musty" smell to it.....and it's close enough to easily run electricity to it.

[FrogLevel]

Neither of those two places merit any changes. Focus on all the trashed out trails, stinky shelters, and overflowing privies.

Its the throngs of thru-hikers that are the issue not the infrastructure. I just spent 3 days on the trail and saw 1 other person the whole time. The shelters were clean and the trails were completely devoid of trash, cutarounds, and traffic. Its the masses of people in the spring that overload the trail and abuse it.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

Its the throngs of thru-hikers that are the issue not the infrastructure. I just spent 3 days on the trail and saw 1 other person the whole time. The shelters were clean and the trails were completely devoid of trash, cutarounds, and traffic. Its the masses of people in the spring that overload the trail and abuse it.

OK, so what's your solution to that then?

[LittleRock]

How about putting in some switchbacks in NH and ME? :D

[Deacon]

How about putting in some switchbacks in NH and ME? :D

I think they are beginning to learn. There are new rebuilt sections of the Abol trail on Katahdin where they used switchbacks nicely.

[FrogLevel]

OK, so what's your solution to that then?

Mandatory education for all thru-hikers starting at both ends and Harper's Ferry. Ridge runners and rangers with the ability to ticket, fine, and educate violators on the spot.

Living near the Tennessee section I think having privies at our shelters would cut down on the toilet paper all over the place during thru hiker season.

[map man]

Bridge the major stream crossings in Maine. The Superior Hiking Trail in Minnesota faces the same bridge issues the AT in Maine does -- they have to be built to withstand the spring ice flows coming down the rivers. But the Superior Hiking Trail Association has made putting bridges over streams and rivers a priority and they are all bridged (though the bridges over the Split Rock River and Encampment River are currently out -- they are working on them) -- and there are many high volume rivers that have to be crossed (more than Maine has) in the 300 miles of trail. SHTA has a much smaller budget than MATC or ATC and yet they manage to do it. Time for the ATC and MATC to do it before future drownings make them do it.

[D2maine]

Bridge the major stream crossings in Maine. The Superior Hiking Trail in Minnesota faces the same bridge issues the AT in Maine does -- they have to be built to withstand the spring ice flows coming down the rivers. But the Superior Hiking Trail Association has made putting bridges over streams and rivers a priority and they are all bridged (though the bridges over the Split Rock River and Encampment River are currently out -- they are working on them) -- and there are many high volume rivers that have to be crossed (more than Maine has) in the 300 miles of trail. SHTA has a much smaller budget than MATC or ATC and yet they manage to do it. Time for the ATC and MATC to do it before future drownings make them do it.


Maine is just fine, the more you "improve" the trail the move wildness you remove from it. don't like stream crossings then hike elsewhere nobody is forcing you to hike here.

lol at the "future drownings" none of the crossings are that difficult, most are not even waist deep and often much lower during hiking season. the only crossing with risk has been eliminated by canoe.

[rocketsocks]

Take a cab if it's that bad, "turn around don't drown" freakin' purists!

[Jeff]

lol at the "future drownings" none of the crossings are that difficult, most are not even waist deep and often much lower during hiking season. the only crossing with risk has been eliminated by canoe.

In the month of June SOBO's cross some pretty high water streams...especially if you are short !!!

[D2maine]

then don't hike in june...nobody is making you choose one of the worst months of the year to be in the Maine woods. Safety is your responsibility first and foremost.

[Emerson Bigills]

The Abol trail is really sweet. It handles some serious elevation changes, but is extremely well done. It is slow going in some rock scramble spots, but very manageable. I loved it.

[Emerson Bigills]

I think a lot of hikers that come to ME from other sections of the country have little if any experience with fords. Quite frankly, by the time you know you have a problem, you might be in the middle of the river/brook, or have already lost your footing. I did not experience any significant high water, but did see several hikers experience "near misses" and saw one hiker break his arm slipping in a brook ford.

I don't know that I advocate bridging all of them, some of the rivers just seem too wide, but a few of those brooks could be done with some investment. The "just stay away, if you don't like it" approach is a cop out to making things better for everyone.

[Another Kevin]

Bridge the major stream crossings in Maine. The Superior Hiking Trail in Minnesota faces the same bridge issues the AT in Maine does -- they have to be built to withstand the spring ice flows coming down the rivers. But the Superior Hiking Trail Association has made putting bridges over streams and rivers a priority and they are all bridged (though the bridges over the Split Rock River and Encampment River are currently out -- they are working on them) -- and there are many high volume rivers that have to be crossed (more than Maine has) in the 300 miles of trail. SHTA has a much smaller budget than MATC or ATC and yet they manage to do it. Time for the ATC and MATC to do it before future drownings make them do it.

This is probably a question for someone with an ear to the ground about Maine conditions and impact.

Are any of those Maine streams 'ice meadow' ecosystem, where there's a broad bank that gets swept clear of any standing vegetation by moving ice during the snow melt? Those are extremely rare and fragile ecosystems. I know of a couple of streams in the Adirondacks that have suspension bridges, despite being in Wilderness Areas, not for hiker safety or convenience, but to protect the ice meadow from being repeatedly trodden by hikers looking for the best spot to ford.

There's one proposed bridge in an area that requires the use of native materials except for fasteners, and DEC was able to get a determinate from The Powers That Be that the bridge cables are 'fasteners,' because everyone concerned wants the bridge: the hikers, the hunters, the environmentalists, nobody's against it. (ADK is even willing to pay for it.) It's on the list, but there are more urgent projects that keep coming up.

Anyone know if there are similar situations in Maine? Teej?

[Another Kevin]

I think a lot of hikers that come to ME from other sections of the country have little if any experience with fords. Quite frankly, by the time you know you have a problem, you might be in the middle of the river/brook, or have already lost your footing. I did not experience any significant high water, but did see several hikers experience "near misses" and saw one hiker break his arm slipping in a brook ford.

I don't know that I advocate bridging all of them, some of the rivers just seem too wide, but a few of those brooks could be done with some investment. The "just stay away, if you don't like it" approach is a cop out to making things better for everyone.

In a Wilderness Area, I'm far for sure I agree. Supposedly, any improvements there are for protection of the wilderness, not for hiker safety or convenience. Bog bridging to keep fragile vegetation from being trodden on - necessary evil. A trail is there at all only to keep the hikers from just spreading out everywhere and doing even more damage - sacrificing one narrow corridor to protect the rest. It's a complex set of tradeoffs.

And I say this as someone who has wiped out at a ford. There's nothing like the experience of swimming unexpectedly, fully clothed and wearing a backpack, in 35 degree temperatures.