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litetrek
08-18-2017, 19:33
I almost bought a ULA circuit this morning but got cold feet when I realized that its top weight rating is 35 lbs. My usual weekend backpacking trip weight is about 28 lb but on longer trips and on other occasions I can go up to 40 lbs. I would like anything I buy to be comfortable up to 40 lbs because I carry that much when I hike with my wife. Other than the max weight rating the circuit is perfect for my needs. Here are my criteria...

a) 3 lbs or under but 3.5 would be ok-ish
b) same carrying capacity as the circuit - a little bigger is OK
c) XL waist strap with 38 inches of padding - same as the XL circuit (as far as I know nobody else has this)
d) XL waist strap with big pockets like the circuit
e) possibility of getting XL shoulder straps - mine are short on me on all of my packs (as far as I know nobody else has this)
f) shovel pocket or expanding mesh front pocket
g) $250 or less but I could stretch to $300 if it was "perfect"
h) waterproof would be nice but not necessary.

I know that the catalyst is probably the best alternate choice considering what I want, but I don't want huge. The catalyst is really way too big for me. Zimmerbuilt would get me exactly what I want but I would guess he's out of my price range.

Sarcasm the elf
08-18-2017, 20:16
Edit: Disregard, I somehow missed your last paragraph about the catalyst.

litetrek
08-18-2017, 20:39
Edit: Disregard, I somehow missed your last paragraph about the catalyst.
I've got a few packs. My gregory baltaro fills the huge category nicely but its really heavy. I'm afraid there may be nothing that fits the bill. The waist belt and strap length issue is something that only maybe ULA and a custom pack co. would offer. That's the point of the post though - to see if there's something I've overlooked. I really like the seekoutside unaweep but the hip belt comes up short on two counts and the price is painful since its not perfect for me.

MuddyWaters
08-18-2017, 21:18
I put the upper end of my circuit at 28-29. I carried 31-32 once with a 6.5L water carry with 5 days food, and it sucked. But..my torso is a tad short so when it sags, it sucks sooner, if that makes any sense.

Ive seen plenty of catalysts with little in them. They dont look any bigger than circuit when half empty.

If you want 40 routinely and comfortably, thats conventional pack territory.

The right pack will make the weight feel lighter, than trying to carry it in a lightweight pack without structure and belt to do so.

SWODaddy
08-18-2017, 22:09
. I really like the seekoutside unaweep but the hip belt comes up short on two counts and the price is painful since its not perfect for me.

I don't understand what your contention with the Unaweep is? I have one...its the best hip belt on any pack I own. You have to buy hip pockets separately, but they're huge.

Venchka
08-18-2017, 22:29
I almost bought a ULA circuit this morning but got cold feet when I realized that its top weight rating is 35 lbs. My usual weekend backpacking trip weight is about 28 lb but on longer trips and on other occasions I can go up to 40 lbs. I would like anything I buy to be comfortable up to 40 lbs because I carry that much when I hike with my wife. Other than the max weight rating the circuit is perfect for my needs. Here are my criteria...

a) 3 lbs or under but 3.5 would be ok-ish
b) same carrying capacity as the circuit - a little bigger is OK
c) XL waist strap with 38 inches of padding - same as the XL circuit (as far as I know nobody else has this)
d) XL waist strap with big pockets like the circuit
e) possibility of getting XL shoulder straps - mine are short on me on all of my packs (as far as I know nobody else has this)
f) shovel pocket or expanding mesh front pocket
g) $250 or less but I could stretch to $300 if it was "perfect"
h) waterproof would be nice but not necessary.

I know that the catalyst is probably the best alternate choice considering what I want, but I don't want huge. The catalyst is really way too big for me. Zimmerbuilt would get me exactly what I want but I would guess he's out of my price range.

I'll never understand the logic you just expressed concerning the Catalyst. The compression system and roll top closure put the Catalyst in day pack volume. When you need the 40 pound capacity it's there when you need it. The Catalyst definitely handles 40 pounds comfortably.
Wayne


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capehiker
08-18-2017, 23:16
Six Moon Designs Fusion 50 or 65. Their load rating is whatever you can fit in the pack. In other words, it was designed to be a load hauler. I believe it checks off your criteria with exception of XL shoulder straps but they do list the length of their straps. If you have a 22 inch torso or greater this pack wouldn't be a good fit but aside from that, give it consideration.

litetrek
08-18-2017, 23:46
I don't understand what your contention with the Unaweep is? I have one...its the best hip belt on any pack I own. You have to buy hip pockets separately, but they're huge.

Hard to evaluate anything by looking at pictures. I have a 43 waist. The unaweep goes to 42. If it's like most backpacks it accommodates a 42 by making the hip straps longer, not the padding. No good pictures on the website. I sent the a question about the padded length of the xl hip belt and so far haven't gotten an answer. I have an issue with having go pay extra for the pockets since the pack is so expensive. That's my opinion, others might welcome paying extra for something that is usually included. They do seem huge but in a deep direction rather than length. Again, looking at a picture online makes it hard to tell. But it looks like it would be difficult to get things out of them.

litetrek
08-18-2017, 23:54
I'll never understand the logic you just expressed concerning the Catalyst. The compression system and roll top closure put the Catalyst in day pack volume. When you need the 40 pound capacity it's there when you need it. The Catalyst definitely handles 40 pounds comfortably.
Wayne


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You don't know what other packs I already have. The catalyst gets me a much lighter huge pack. I have a Gregory baltoro, 70L 5.5 lbs, and a Lowe alpine contour which holds 90 L and weighs nearly 7 lbs. if someone else was paying for it I would love to have a catalyst but spending 260 to get a lighter pack that will do the same load/volume as one I already have takes some convincing.

litetrek
08-19-2017, 00:01
Six Moon Designs Fusion 50 or 65. Their load rating is whatever you can fit in the pack. In other words, it was designed to be a load hauler. I believe it checks off your criteria with exception of XL shoulder straps but they do list the length of their straps. If you have a 22 inch torso or greater this pack wouldn't be a good fit but aside from that, give it consideration.
I bought a first generation fusion 50 about 3 months ago for half price. Youre right about load capability. The first generation pack is way off on volume, though The 50 L claim should be more like 36 to 40. The largest waist belt is a little too small, although I like it otherwise. The shoulder straps are too short. The shovel pocket is small and weird shaped as are the side water bottle pockets. I like the pack and I use it for overnights but it has a number of serious flaws. That's probably why they redesigned it and sold the originals at a very deep discount.

saltysack
08-19-2017, 00:25
Simply call ULA...Chris is very knowledgeable and helpful.


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Maineiac64
08-19-2017, 06:31
Perfect usually comes with a bigger price tag. If an extra $100 gets you there isn't it worth stretching the budget?

Starchild
08-19-2017, 06:43
For 40 lbs to me that is external frame. Pack weight about 5-7 lbs to be expected. External may be heavy and old school but it is far more comfortable to carry heavy loads.


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Shrewd
08-19-2017, 08:10
I'm about 200 miles away from katahdin and I've carried my Circuit the whole way. I'm a 6'3 dude and all my stuff is XL, and I've made it work fine.
I totally understand your cold feet but realistically if you can't get your load below 35 with food you need to rethink what you want to carry.

Maybe check out Granite Gear? Or get the same osprey that 90% of your hiker buddies will have and it'll be good. Eventually you'll get used to it either way.


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litetrek
08-19-2017, 09:07
Perfect usually comes with a bigger price tag. If an extra $100 gets you there isn't it worth stretching the budget?

I agree with that 100%. I haven't found perfect though and probably wont. The big issue is the waist belt size. I really like the unaweep at least from looking at the pictures and reading the descriptions. The waist belt doesn't appear to be long enough (important issue) and the separate hip belt pockets available don't appeal to me. I could make my own pockets and that issue is easily solved. I could make my own hip belt also but I really dont want to do that. Pockets are easy - hip belts, not.

litetrek
08-19-2017, 09:30
I'm about 200 miles away from katahdin and I've carried my Circuit the whole way. I'm a 6'3 dude and all my stuff is XL, and I've made it work fine.
I totally understand your cold feet but realistically if you can't get your load below 35 with food you need to rethink what you want to carry.

Maybe check out Granite Gear? Or get the same osprey that 90% of your hiker buddies will have and it'll be good. Eventually you'll get used to it either way.


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I could make the circuit work fine if I was thru hiking, but I'm buying it to fit a niche in my pack "collection" and with its weight limitation it doesn't quite fit. When you have a bunch of packs you can afford to be picky.

packs I own

1. lowe alpine contour - 90L weights 7 lbs
2. REI ridgeline - 65L (pre-flash model) weighs 4.5 lbs
3. Gregory Baltoro - 70L weighs about 5.5 lbs
4. Six Moons fusion 1st generation) 50L weighs about 2 lbs - really more like a little less than 40L
5. JanSport Scout 63L weighs about 4 lbs - was going to use the frame to built a custom pack similar to the unaweep but haven't done it (yet)

I love backpacking and gear and I bought everything above either at a clearance sale or used. The lowe is only used these days as a loaner, but its huge volume served me well at Philmont. One of the kids got sick one day and I took nearly half of her gear. The pack weighed nearly 70 lbs but it carried it comfortably. Anyhow I'm looking for something like the circuit with a suspension like the catalyst. Maybe it doesn't exist. The current fusion is close but not quite what I wanted due to the weird (smallish) shovel pocket.

My 3 day loaded pack weight is about 30 lbs. I use a hammock and that gear tends to be slightly heavier and bulkier. I estimate that a hammock and associated gear gives you at least a 1 lb penalty. With the gear I've chosen its closer to 2 lbs.

litetrek
08-19-2017, 09:37
Simply call ULA...Chris is very knowledgeable and helpful.

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I have talked with him. He helped me choose the different sizes (hipbelt, straps, bag). I don't see how he can help me with the fact that the circuit has a 35 weight limit. I can almost always be well under 35 lbs, but what gave me cold feets is many many comments I found that the circuit becomes uncomfortable in the high 20's. My loaded pack weight is ALWAYS in the high 20's which would mean that it would almost always be uncomfortable with my typical load.

litetrek
08-19-2017, 09:40
I'm about 200 miles away from katahdin and I've carried my Circuit the whole way. I'm a 6'3 dude and all my stuff is XL, and I've made it work fine.
I totally understand your cold feet but realistically if you can't get your load below 35 with food you need to rethink what you want to carry.

Maybe check out Granite Gear? Or get the same osprey that 90% of your hiker buddies will have and it'll be good. Eventually you'll get used to it either way.


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Oh, one more thing - hike on! 200 miles left awesome. I live about 50 miles from Springer.

Venchka
08-19-2017, 09:49
You don't know what other packs I already have. The catalyst gets me a much lighter huge pack. I have a Gregory baltoro, 70L 5.5 lbs, and a Lowe alpine contour which holds 90 L and weighs nearly 7 lbs. if someone else was paying for it I would love to have a catalyst but spending 260 to get a lighter pack that will do the same load/volume as one I already have takes some convincing.

Have you actually seen and or used the Catalyst? I bought mine last year to take the place of a 63 liter Jensen Pack and a 90+ Dana Design Terraplane.
Suffice to say the Catalyst and the Jensen are about equal in terms of capacity, comfort and function. Nothing I own or have used can touch the Terraplane.
The advertised volume of the Catalyst is optimistic in my opinion. I'm not sure that the Circuit would suit your needs even if the load capacity was 40 pounds. The Catalyst has adequate volume for a 1 week trip September trip in the San Juan mountains of southwestern Colorado.
Take a drive up to Mountain Crossings and see for yourself.
My granddaughter has the Catalyst now. I measured as a medium. Given the adjustable hip belt, I could use a large from ULA. I would also get the S straps.
On the other hand, one of the Unaweep packs would replace both of my current packs.
Wayne


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saltysack
08-19-2017, 10:17
I have talked with him. He helped me choose the different sizes (hipbelt, straps, bag). I don't see how he can help me with the fact that the circuit has a 35 weight limit. I can almost always be well under 35 lbs, but what gave me cold feets is many many comments I found that the circuit becomes uncomfortable in the high 20's. My loaded pack weight is ALWAYS in the high 20's which would mean that it would almost always be uncomfortable with my typical load.

Everyone's different but I've carried nearly 35 out of MTR to Whitney on JMT and with any pack the less weight is more comfy...if it works for most trips I don't think can go wrong with circuit....Ive had circuit, gorilla and prophet...highly recommended circuit as I had several friend who aren't UL that bought and all happy with it. You will eventually lighten your load so the circuit is good starting point.....just my $.02.....


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litetrek
08-19-2017, 17:07
Have you actually seen and or used the Catalyst? I bought mine last year to take the place of a 63 liter Jensen Pack and a 90+ Dana Design Terraplane.
Suffice to say the Catalyst and the Jensen are about equal in terms of capacity, comfort and function. Nothing I own or have used can touch the Terraplane.
The advertised volume of the Catalyst is optimistic in my opinion. I'm not sure that the Circuit would suit your needs even if the load capacity was 40 pounds. The Catalyst has adequate volume for a 1 week trip September trip in the San Juan mountains of southwestern Colorado.
Take a drive up to Mountain Crossings and see for yourself.
My granddaughter has the Catalyst now. I measured as a medium. Given the adjustable hip belt, I could use a large from ULA. I would also get the S straps.
On the other hand, one of the Unaweep packs would replace both of my current packs.
Wayne


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Yes, I went to mountain crossings for a pack fitting with the circuit. According to Chris at ULA the only thing they got right was my torso measurement and the corresponding pack size (medium). Anyhow, you can see from my pack list I don't urgently need this. I'm thinking of section hiking the georgia section of the AT in October and I thought for once I woukd pay full price and get an ideal pack.

litetrek
08-19-2017, 17:15
Everyone's different but I've carried nearly 35 out of MTR to Whitney on JMT and with any pack the less weight is more comfy...if it works for most trips I don't think can go wrong with circuit....Ive had circuit, gorilla and prophet...highly recommended circuit as I had several friend who aren't UL that bought and all happy with it. You will eventually lighten your load so the circuit is good starting point.....just my $.02.....


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Thanks. I actually started lightening my load years ago. I used to routinely carry 45 lb plus loads on weekend trips. Now I'm in the mid to upper twenties. That said, sometimes I take some great meals into the backcountry. How about ribeyes on the campfire with steamed vegetables and backcountry tiramisu for dessert? That meal alone (I usually hike with two buddies and the steak dinner is my signature dinner) would push me into uncomfortable territory with the circuit. I'm not an ultralighter and will never be. However I would call myself a lightweight backpacker and ultralight packs have some very desirable design features.

litetrek
08-19-2017, 17:24
I'm actually leaning towards ordering a catalyst instead of a circuit. I know that will work for me...a little wide for my taste but I can live with that. Also considering a fusion 65 although there a few things I don't like about the fusion. The unaweep is probably more than I need and the price is out there. My favorite pack among all that I have used in over 45 years of backpacking was the BSA camper pack with a ladder frame. It was lightweight, could carry a lot and very simple. Canvas with no pack cover and I never had anything get wet. I think I paid less than $25 for it. If I still had it I may have a different opinion but its like a first girlfriend - frozen in time as "perfect".

Venchka
08-19-2017, 19:08
Yes, I went to mountain crossings for a pack fitting with the circuit. According to Chris at ULA the only thing they got right was my torso measurement and the corresponding pack size (medium). Anyhow, you can see from my pack list I don't urgently need this. I'm thinking of section hiking the georgia section of the AT in October and I thought for once I woukd pay full price and get an ideal pack.

I measured for a medium ULA Catalyst. Both of my older packs are medium. I bought a medium without looking in a mirror with the pack on. FAIL! The Catalyst frame and shoulder strap anchors are at least 2" shorter than the Terraplane. Consequently, the load lifters were horizontal, not up at an angle. I also realized, for the first time in 20+ years of ownership, that the Terraplane has S-straps. Dana Gleason knew what he was doing.
I don't have an urgent need either. Hence my granddaughter has the Catalyst. I'm loading up the Jensen for some fun in the Rockies.
Good luck with your search.
Wayne


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SWODaddy
08-19-2017, 21:04
Hard to evaluate anything by looking at pictures. I have a 43 waist. The unaweep goes to 42. If it's like most backpacks it accommodates a 42 by making the hip straps longer, not the padding. No good pictures on the website. I sent the a question about the padded length of the xl hip belt and so far haven't gotten an answer. I have an issue with having go pay extra for the pockets since the pack is so expensive. That's my opinion, others might welcome paying extra for something that is usually included. They do seem huge but in a deep direction rather than length. Again, looking at a picture online makes it hard to tell. But it looks like it would be difficult to get things out of them.

Their website is screwy, understand your frustration.

I can tell you the padding in their hip belts increases with size. I had the same waist size (XL) as you when I bought the pack and it fits fine. I'm not at home at the moment, but could measure later this week if you're interested - send me a PM if you are.

I didn't buy the Seek Outside pockets. I had Zimmerbuilt make me a set of his x-pac accessory pockets with PALS webbing on the back (no extra charge) - $25 incl. shipping I think. Being PALS/Molle, you can find/attach any sort of pocket you could dream of though. Do a search on Amazon and you'll find tons of options.

Catalyst is a great option too. I love the x-pac fabric though.

OkeefenokeeJoe
08-19-2017, 22:12
+1 on the Half Moon Designs Fusion 50 / 65. Stellar pack!!

OkeefenokeeJoe

Maineiac64
08-20-2017, 06:24
It is outside your budget with accessories at about $400 but zpacks arc haul checks your boxes except for the extra hip belt padding. I am in ATL if you wanted to see mine.

ScareBear
08-20-2017, 07:39
I almost bought a ULA circuit this morning but got cold feet when I realized that its top weight rating is 35 lbs. My usual weekend backpacking trip weight is about 28 lb but on longer trips and on other occasions I can go up to 40 lbs. I would like anything I buy to be comfortable up to 40 lbs because I carry that much when I hike with my wife. Other than the max weight rating the circuit is perfect for my needs. Here are my criteria...

a) 3 lbs or under but 3.5 would be ok-ish
b) same carrying capacity as the circuit - a little bigger is OK
c) XL waist strap with 38 inches of padding - same as the XL circuit (as far as I know nobody else has this)
d) XL waist strap with big pockets like the circuit
e) possibility of getting XL shoulder straps - mine are short on me on all of my packs (as far as I know nobody else has this)
f) shovel pocket or expanding mesh front pocket
g) $250 or less but I could stretch to $300 if it was "perfect"
h) waterproof would be nice but not necessary.

I know that the catalyst is probably the best alternate choice considering what I want, but I don't want huge. The catalyst is really way too big for me. Zimmerbuilt would get me exactly what I want but I would guess he's out of my price range.

This is on sale. 3lbs 12oz and it will fit your waist size. And your requirements. Gets great reviews with a 40lb load. REI guarantee. On sale now for $140. Crazy good deal if you need to haul more than 35lbs!!!

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/camping-and-hiking/backpacks-backpacking/rei-flash-65

ScareBear
08-20-2017, 07:43
If you can keep your weight at 35lbs or less, the GraniteGear CrownVC60 is on sale for the same dollar and comes in at 2lbs 4oz in large size and at certain websites you can spec the XL hip belt at no extra charge, which is a crazy good deal as well.

litetrek
08-20-2017, 08:45
This is on sale. 3lbs 12oz and it will fit your waist size. And your requirements. Gets great reviews with a 40lb load. REI guarantee. On sale now for $140. Crazy good deal if you need to haul more than 35lbs!!!

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/camping-and-hiking/backpacks-backpacking/rei-flash-65

Thanks I already have one of those. The REI ridgeline was called the ridgeline before they renamed it the flash. There were a few design changes which made it lighter but its basically the same pack. That is an awesome deal and its a good pack. I like the original design more than the current one though.

ScareBear
08-20-2017, 08:53
Thanks I already have one of those. The REI ridgeline was called the ridgeline before they renamed it the flash. There were a few design changes which made it lighter but its basically the same pack. That is an awesome deal and its a good pack. I like the original design more than the current one though.

That Ridgeline must be at least 6 or 7 years old. REI is on the 3rd iteration of the Flash. This is the 2nd iteration. I've got the first and it is great for what it is. But with a load less than 35 lbs, which is almost every load I hike with on the AT(my max weight is under 22 lbs...), the CrownVC for the sale price and weight is awfully difficult to beat...

litetrek
08-20-2017, 08:55
Their website is screwy, understand your frustration.

I can tell you the padding in their hip belts increases with size. I had the same waist size (XL) as you when I bought the pack and it fits fine. I'm not at home at the moment, but could measure later this week if you're interested - send me a PM if you are.

I didn't buy the Seek Outside pockets. I had Zimmerbuilt make me a set of his x-pac accessory pockets with PALS webbing on the back (no extra charge) - $25 incl. shipping I think. Being PALS/Molle, you can find/attach any sort of pocket you could dream of though. Do a search on Amazon and you'll find tons of options.

Catalyst is a great option too. I love the x-pac fabric though.
I approached zimmerbuilt about making me some custom shoulder straps and a hip belt and he never responded to my email. I concluded that he had no interest in making anything but complete packs.

I bought a jansport scout pack as a special DIY project. The concept is an ultralight external frame pack with a bag like the circuit on the scouts very light frame. At the time I didn't know about the unaweep, but it would be a little like a unaweep. The suspension on the scout is too small for me and my sewing machine wont do the heavy fabric needed for the suspension. I still plan to do this project someday. Maybe now is the time.

litetrek
08-20-2017, 09:22
That Ridgeline must be at least 6 or 7 years old. REI is on the 3rd iteration of the Flash. This is the 2nd iteration. I've got the first and it is great for what it is. But with a load less than 35 lbs, which is almost every load I hike with on the AT(my max weight is under 22 lbs...), the CrownVC for the sale price and weight is awfully difficult to beat...
The ridgeline I have is about 10 years old. They were around only a short time. The fabric was replaced with a lighter fabric, the volume was reduced a bit and they lightened up the suspension. One or two of the iterations had a plastic frame sheet. Mine has an aluminum perimeter frame.

I like my ridgeline, but its not without some shortcomings. The straps are too short for me and the hipbelt is too small. I think the hipbelt pockets are way too small - they hold nearly nothing - maybe a few packs of goo and car keys. The water bottle pockets are also a little small for my taste but they usually work. Sometimes things fall out of them. Anyhow, the ridgeline is probably my favorite pack but I would change a few things if possible.

litetrek
08-20-2017, 09:45
Their website is screwy, understand your frustration.

I can tell you the padding in their hip belts increases with size. I had the same waist size (XL) as you when I bought the pack and it fits fine. I'm not at home at the moment, but could measure later this week if you're interested - send me a PM if you are.

I didn't buy the Seek Outside pockets. I had Zimmerbuilt make me a set of his x-pac accessory pockets with PALS webbing on the back (no extra charge) - $25 incl. shipping I think. Being PALS/Molle, you can find/attach any sort of pocket you could dream of though. Do a search on Amazon and you'll find tons of options.

Catalyst is a great option too. I love the x-pac fabric though.
Thanks for the offer to measure the hipbelt padding. I took another look at their website and the info is on the hip belt accessory page. 36 inches for an XL. That will work for me 38 would be much better. I was surprised to find the info but it doesn't jump off the page at you. Almost nobody posts that information so I didn't initially look for it that intently.

litetrek
08-20-2017, 09:48
If you can keep your weight at 35lbs or less, the GraniteGear CrownVC60 is on sale for the same dollar and comes in at 2lbs 4oz in large size and at certain websites you can spec the XL hip belt at no extra charge, which is a crazy good deal as well.
Thanks. Thats a nice pack. Good price too.

egilbe
08-20-2017, 18:56
I use my Unaweep for 90% of my hikes. Most comfortable pack I own. I have a medium and a large hipbelt and they are indeed, different size padding. I also have a Fusion 50 and 65. Some complaints you have with them, but I make do, because they carry pretty comfortably when I feel like taking them out of the rack. If you hike enough, you will lose weight and that waist belt that fits now, may become too large.

Teacher & Snacktime
08-20-2017, 19:20
If you can keep your weight at 35lbs or less, the GraniteGear CrownVC60 is on sale for the same dollar and comes in at 2lbs 4oz in large size and at certain websites you can spec the XL hip belt at no extra charge, which is a crazy good deal as well.

FWIW I met a hiker last weekend with one of these....his second in fact since starting in GA. He'll be returning this second one two asap. He said the pack is fine itself, but the water bottle pockets keep ripping. Apparently the fabric is too flimsy and just splits, and if it's rubbed it quickly disintegrates.

Venchka
08-20-2017, 19:26
FWIW I met a hiker last weekend with one of these....his second in fact since starting in GA. He'll be returning this second one two asap. He said the pack is fine itself, but the water bottle pockets keep ripping. Apparently the fabric is too flimsy and just splits, and if it's rubbed it quickly disintegrates.

That's a feature we're all looking for. Thanks for relaying the information.
Wayne


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litetrek
08-20-2017, 20:26
FWIW I met a hiker last weekend with one of these....his second in fact since starting in GA. He'll be returning this second one two asap. He said the pack is fine itself, but the water bottle pockets keep ripping. Apparently the fabric is too flimsy and just splits, and if it's rubbed it quickly disintegrates.
Yes, I knew that and that's why its not on my list of possibles.

litetrek
08-21-2017, 10:14
Today I learned about the seek outside divide. This pack may be what I'm looking for. The unaweep is HUGE and I don't need or want that. The seekoutside website is awful. I can't believe they are actually hoping to sell packs with the pictures they have. The only issue I can see with the divide is having 20L of space in the roll top collar. I don't like hiking with an extended collar hovering up around the top of my head - no pictures with the extension fully deployed with someone wearing it so no idea how it carries. I'm going to look for more info on that pack in other places. I found some stuff about the unaweep on youtube but less on the divide.

Venchka
08-21-2017, 10:43
Have found the Section Hiker's pages on the Seek Outside packs?
If you're frustrated by the Seek Outside web site, CALL THEM. On the phone. You know. The thing in your hand that you use to post at WhiteBlaze.
Wayne


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Venchka
08-21-2017, 10:50
https://sectionhiker.com/seek-outside-divide-external-frame-backpack-review/

https://seekoutside.com/blog/seek-outside-divide-ultralight-backpack/

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/2016-seekoutside-divide-4500-review/

The Divide is everywhere. The extension collar, just like that used by ULA, HMG, etc. rolls down to the top of the frame if needed. Or hold a bear canister if needed.
Wayne


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Venchka
08-21-2017, 11:06
Found on the Seek Outside web pages:
"Tapered main bag adapts to large loads, and rolls down to hug smaller loads. When rolled down to the top of the frame the Divide is little more than 3000 cubic inches, but at full capacity balloons to 4500."
Wayne


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saltysack
08-21-2017, 11:22
How about that new pack by Sierra Designs...flex capacitor??


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litetrek
08-21-2017, 11:35
Have found the Section Hiker's pages on the Seek Outside packs?
If you're frustrated by the Seek Outside web site, CALL THEM. On the phone. You know. The thing in your hand that you use to post at WhiteBlaze.
Wayne


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Actually Wayne I'm nearly 60 years old ... not part of the smartphone generation. I do have a smartphone but I don't use it much AND I'm well aware that they can answer some of my questions. So, I WILL eventually call them. However, as you know you don't get unbiased information from someone trying to sell you their product. I learned a long time ago not to take advice from someone who would make money off of the deal.

Yes, I did find the section hikers page yesterday on the unaweep, not the divide - I'll look again.

litetrek
08-21-2017, 11:43
https://sectionhiker.com/seek-outside-divide-external-frame-backpack-review/

https://seekoutside.com/blog/seek-outside-divide-ultralight-backpack/

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/2016-seekoutside-divide-4500-review/

The Divide is everywhere. The extension collar, just like that used by ULA, HMG, etc. rolls down to the top of the frame if needed. Or hold a bear canister if needed.
Wayne


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Yes, I guess I saw all of those yesterday. I forgot that I saw the divide review. I was specifically looking for a picture of someone wearing it with the collar fully extended (from the side). I hike on ungroomed trails with lots of deadfall to crawl over or under. An extension collar that is filled and sticks up quite a bit gets easily stuck.

Venchka
08-21-2017, 12:49
Yes, I guess I saw all of those yesterday. I forgot that I saw the divide review. I was specifically looking for a picture of someone wearing it with the collar fully extended (from the side). I hike on ungroomed trails with lots of deadfall to crawl over or under. An extension collar that is filled and sticks up quite a bit gets easily stuck.

That's going to be dependent upon your gear and how you pack it.
I managed to fill up the Catalyst last year when I added my food bag loaded for a week. By the time I rolled the top closed and compressed it, the top was below the top of my head. I have no idea how that compares to the Divide.
Similar trip this year. Different pack. Ursack Major bag filled for a week. The top of the pack is roughly at the top of my ears.
Wayne who is headed for 72.


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Venchka
08-21-2017, 16:30
I discovered a quick way to find hundreds of backpack photos arranged by pack name.
Google search phrase:
Seek Outside Divide 4600 review
When the search is complete click on the IMAGES tab. Enjoy.
The same process works for ULA Catalyst, etc.
Wayne


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egilbe
08-21-2017, 17:43
You dont have to fill the extension collar. You can roll it down. You can use the Unaweep with, or without the frame extensions. Using the talon, you can compress any load you want down to just the frame, or water bladder. You can add all kinds of bulky items to the pack using the compression system. Its very flexible and modular.

egilbe
08-21-2017, 18:13
40100401014010240103



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40107401084010940110

litetrek
08-21-2017, 18:17
Thanks. I've been backpacking for at least 45 years. I know how a roll top works. I want a pack that doesn't have the roll up section hovering over my head when its full. I usually fill a 60 L pack. The divide is 50 L with the roll top all the way down and about 70 L + with it fully extended. My best guess is that for my usual trip I would have the roll top half extended - maybe (probably) acceptable. I hate buying things online that I can't see and touch before buying. Especially expensive not returnable things plus shipping costs.

litetrek
08-21-2017, 18:23
40100401014010240103



40104401054010140106


40107401084010940110

Awesome. That's exactly what I needed. I appreciate it. If those came from a google search I apologize because my searches were fairly non-productive.

egilbe
08-21-2017, 18:29
My gf's facebook. Those are of me. From as little as 15 pounds to as much as 42ish. The packbag is a 4800. A bit bigger than what they are making now. Its also in cuben fiber which they stopped using.

litetrek
08-21-2017, 18:48
My gf's facebook. Those are of me. From as little as 15 pounds to as much as 42ish. The packbag is a 4800. A bit bigger than what they are making now. Its also in cuben fiber which they stopped using.

Thanks. I estimate the current divide to be slightly too small for me. However, I could make it work. That said its a lot of money to spend for "almost" what I'm looking for. Its the closest to what I want that I've found.

saltysack
08-21-2017, 19:43
My gf's facebook. Those are of me. From as little as 15 pounds to as much as 42ish. The packbag is a 4800. A bit bigger than what they are making now. Its also in cuben fiber which they stopped using.

Nice pack!


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egilbe
08-21-2017, 20:00
4011340114401154011640117

litetrek
08-21-2017, 20:05
4011340114401154011640117
I see one or two of my packs in your collection.

egilbe
08-21-2017, 20:15
I see one or two of my packs in your collection.

You probably do :D

Maineiac64
08-21-2017, 22:00
Is that a cuben fiber pizza box?

litetrek
08-22-2017, 17:41
https://sectionhiker.com/seek-outside-divide-external-frame-backpack-review/

https://seekoutside.com/blog/seek-outside-divide-ultralight-backpack/

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/2016-seekoutside-divide-4500-review/

The Divide is everywhere. The extension collar, just like that used by ULA, HMG, etc. rolls down to the top of the frame if needed. Or hold a bear canister if needed.
Wayne


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Once I realized the unaweep and the divide are two separate packs I have been able to find a lot more reviews for the divide. In still haven't found anything that gives the volume of the side water bottle pockets. I like to carry my cook kit in a water bottle pocket and it takes a fairly large pocket. Would like this information if you or anyone else has it.

egilbe
08-22-2017, 17:45
How big is the pot? I can put liter Gatorade or insulated water bottles in my packs pockets. They will also customize the pack the way you want it, for a price.

litetrek
08-22-2017, 19:31
I tried on the circuit at mountain crossings and the pockets are 400 ci each and they seemed just right. Based on the somewhat limited info on seekoutside's website I calculate their pocket size as (1200 -(10x14x5))/2 = 250 ci. That's a big difference. The cook kit in the side pocket is pretty convenient for a mid hike lunch - no digging it out of the main pack. That said I could always change my ways. But hey, I'm 58 and I've been doing that for some time. Anyhow, to answer your question I use several different cook kits. The 2 qt open country aluminum pot I take for group cooking (seldom used) goes in the main bag. All of my other cook sets nest nicely and are no bigger that this: https://www.ebay.com/p/Imusa-Aluminum-Mug-1-quart-12-Cm/1434316944. This one is my favorite. The others a about the same or a little smaller in diameter and taller. I'm pretty sure the imusa pot will fit in the divide but I bet that it will take up most of the room. I also stick my fishing pole tube in the same pocket (about 2 inches dia.). Water bottles go in the other side. I usually use the bigger gatoraide bottle and a smart water bottle. Since Sunday I've read quite a few reviews but none have addressed some of my specific concerns. Eventually I'll call seek outside and ask what questions I have left.

Venchka
08-22-2017, 21:44
Not to clutter things too much...
During my brief encounter with the Catalyst I came to really appreciate the side pockets. They are huge! Tall as well. Some examples:
I was carrying an MSR HUBBA HUBBA NX 2. I was able to put the body and fly in the factory compression sack in the right pocket held in place by the compression straps. There was room for a liter water bottle, perhaps more. The tent poles went in the opposite pocket with an MSR WaterWorks filter.
I was also able to put a Nalgene 3 quart soft canteen Full in one of the pockets.
I wish I had tried my cooksets. I'm sure the 1 liter solo model would have fit. I'm not sure about the big SIGG TOURIST.
Wayne


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litetrek
08-24-2017, 06:53
How big is the pot? I can put liter Gatorade or insulated water bottles in my packs pockets. They will also customize the pack the way you want it, for a price.

I tried on the circuit at mountain crossings and the pockets are 400 ci each and they seemed just right. Based on the somewhat limited info on seekoutside's website I calculate their pocket size as (1200 -(10x14x5))/2 = 250 ci. That's a big difference. The cook kit in the side pocket is pretty convenient for a mid hike lunch - no digging it out of the main pack. That said I could always change my ways. But hey, I'm 58 and I've been doing that for some time. Anyhow, to answer your question I use several different cook kits. The 2 qt open country aluminum pot I take for group cooking (seldom used) goes in the main bag. All of my other cook sets nest nicely and are no bigger that this: https://www.ebay.com/p/Imusa-Aluminu...-Cm/1434316944 (https://www.ebay.com/p/Imusa-Aluminum-Mug-1-quart-12-Cm/1434316944). This one is my favorite. The others a about the same or a little smaller in diameter and taller. I'm pretty sure the imusa pot will fit in the divide but I bet that it will take up most of the room. I also stick my fishing pole tube in the same pocket (about 2 inches dia.). Water bottles go in the other side. I usually use the bigger gatoraide bottle and a smart water bottle. Since Sunday I've read quite a few reviews but none have addressed some of my specific concerns. Eventually I'll call seek outside and ask what questions I have left.

litetrek
08-24-2017, 06:59
Not to clutter things too much...
During my brief encounter with the Catalyst I came to really appreciate the side pockets. They are huge! Tall as well. Some examples:
I was carrying an MSR HUBBA HUBBA NX 2. I was able to put the body and fly in the factory compression sack in the right pocket held in place by the compression straps. There was room for a liter water bottle, perhaps more. The tent poles went in the opposite pocket with an MSR WaterWorks filter.
I was also able to put a Nalgene 3 quart soft canteen Full in one of the pockets.
I wish I had tried my cooksets. I'm sure the 1 liter solo model would have fit. I'm not sure about the big SIGG TOURIST.
Wayne


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I think the big pockets are its best feature. I'm seriously considering the divide now. I need to call and see if they would build it for me in a different color. I've been shot at by a deer hunter in PA once when I was hiking and I don't like blending in. When a bullet zips past a few feet above your head through the leaves it changes your perspective forever. I was carrying a forest green camptrails pack that day and blended nicely with the surroundings. I've bough colorful packs since then.

SWODaddy
08-24-2017, 09:52
I tried on the circuit at mountain crossings and the pockets are 400 ci each and they seemed just right. Based on the somewhat limited info on seekoutside's website I calculate their pocket size as (1200 -(10x14x5))/2 = 250 ci. That's a big difference. The cook kit in the side pocket is pretty convenient for a mid hike lunch - no digging it out of the main pack. That said I could always change my ways. But hey, I'm 58 and I've been doing that for some time. Anyhow, to answer your question I use several different cook kits. The 2 qt open country aluminum pot I take for group cooking (seldom used) goes in the main bag. All of my other cook sets nest nicely and are no bigger that this: https://www.ebay.com/p/Imusa-Aluminu...-Cm/1434316944 (https://www.ebay.com/p/Imusa-Aluminum-Mug-1-quart-12-Cm/1434316944). This one is my favorite. The others a about the same or a little smaller in diameter and taller. I'm pretty sure the imusa pot will fit in the divide but I bet that it will take up most of the room. I also stick my fishing pole tube in the same pocket (about 2 inches dia.). Water bottles go in the other side. I usually use the bigger gatoraide bottle and a smart water bottle. Since Sunday I've read quite a few reviews but none have addressed some of my specific concerns. Eventually I'll call seek outside and ask what questions I have left.
The side pockets on my Seek Outside Divide can hold my 1.1L Evernew cook kit (sideways) securely (I don't use it this way myself, for what it's worth). Anything much bigger than that would be a stretch.

As for colors, the alpine grey is quite light in color.

egilbe
08-24-2017, 14:52
I think the big pockets are its best feature. I'm seriously considering the divide now. I need to call and see if they would build it for me in a different color. I've been shot at by a deer hunter in PA once when I was hiking and I don't like blending in. When a bullet zips past a few feet above your head through the leaves it changes your perspective forever. I was carrying a forest green camptrails pack that day and blended nicely with the surroundings. I've bough colorful packs since then.
I just wear blaze orange during hunting season, hat, vest, jacket, that way, the rest of the year, I can blend in.

Venchka
08-24-2017, 15:23
I know they make a blaze orange Talon. They don't list the Talon as an option for the Divide. You should be able to get blaze orange stuff dirt cheap when hunting season is almost over.
If you buy a Divide I'll be jealous. I've been following them since there was a Paradox web page.
Wayne


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litetrek
08-24-2017, 19:34
I know they make a blaze orange Talon. They don't list the Talon as an option for the Divide. You should be able to get blaze orange stuff dirt cheap when hunting season is almost over.
If you buy a Divide I'll be jealous. I've been following them since there was a Paradox web page.
Wayne
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I have a bunch of blaze orange stuff that I take now. I'm a minimalist so I don't like carrying a bunch of extra crap that could be eliminated by careful planning. I suspect they sell the pack in the colors they have to appeal to hunters or to simplify things for themselves. The material comes in a bunch of colors. I'm not willing to pay a lot extra to get brighter colors, though. I will call and report back. It may be a few days....

litetrek
08-24-2017, 19:41
The side pockets on my Seek Outside Divide can hold my 1.1L Evernew cook kit (sideways) securely (I don't use it this way myself, for what it's worth). Anything much bigger than that would be a stretch.

As for colors, the alpine grey is quite light in color.
Thanks. Helpful info on the color and the pot. I don't like the grey at all - hate it actually. However, that's the fabric weight I wanted. I could live with it, but its a fairly expensive pack and I'm not sure about putting up with something that doesn't "delight me". Maybe I'll come around to accepting grey.

litetrek
08-24-2017, 19:50
I just wear blaze orange during hunting season, hat, vest, jacket, that way, the rest of the year, I can blend in.

Its hot and humid as heck in the south during the summer so I hike in the fall during hunting season (mostly) and also a little during the few cool weeks of spring. I once got called out by a day hiker for my blaze orange gear. I had on a vest a cap, and a piece of ripstop draped ove the back of my pack.She said I was ruining her outdoor experience with "offensive" unnatural colors. I responded I'm sorry you don't like what I'm wearing but your outdoor experience will get a whole lot worse if you get shot. It was the first day of hunting season and we were hiking on public hunting lands. There were shots fired not too far from me at one point but nothing in my direction.

litetrek
08-24-2017, 20:29
Still trying to figure out what the divide actually is. These comments are from the Divide description area about rain covers:

Rain Cover / Seam Sealing:


Main pack bag is made of X-Pac™ waterproof material and features a waterproof rolltop closure. Seam sealing the outside seams is recommended for exceptionally wet environments.
Water can penetrate the side zipper, but usually not in a rain situation with the pack upright - the zipper flap does an excellent job of repelling rain.
Waterproof stuff sacks are recommended for exceptionally rainy conditions, and drybags for submersion or severely wet conditions such as bushwacking or canyoneering.
Side pockets are 500D Cordura and are not waterproof.


I don't see a side zipper mentioned anywhere else regarding the Divide. Is this a mistake? Or should I say does the Divide have a side zipper?

SWODaddy
08-24-2017, 22:19
Still trying to figure out what the divide actually is. These comments are from the Divide description area about rain covers:

Rain Cover / Seam Sealing:


Main pack bag is made of X-Pac™ waterproof material and features a waterproof rolltop closure. Seam sealing the outside seams is recommended for exceptionally wet environments.
Water can penetrate the side zipper, but usually not in a rain situation with the pack upright - the zipper flap does an excellent job of repelling rain.
Waterproof stuff sacks are recommended for exceptionally rainy conditions, and drybags for submersion or severely wet conditions such as bushwacking or canyoneering.
Side pockets are 500D Cordura and are not waterproof.


I don't see a side zipper mentioned anywhere else regarding the Divide. Is this a mistake? Or should I say does the Divide have a side zipper?

That's a misprint. There are no zippers on the divide. The pockets aren't Cordura either. That's a description for one of their other packs.

litetrek
08-25-2017, 08:25
That's a misprint. There are no zippers on the divide. The pockets aren't Cordura either. That's a description for one of their other packs.

Unfortunately I have to repeat that their website is awful. I've spent hours on it trying to figure out exactly what you get when you buy a divide and you just can't be sure. Trying to sell a product sight unseen over the internet requires correct, clear and concise information. I'm not going to roll the dice on a $350 item and hope I like what shows up. Anyhow thanks for confirming that there is no side zipper.

Venchka
08-25-2017, 09:10
"Hey Boss! De phone! De phone!"
But seriously. I'm going to be in the neighborhood soon. I'm sorely tempted to pay them a visit.
Wayne


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saltysack
08-25-2017, 10:29
Unfortunately I have to repeat that their website is awful. I've spent hours on it trying to figure out exactly what you get when you buy a divide and you just can't be sure. Trying to sell a product sight unseen over the internet requires correct, clear and concise information. I'm not going to roll the dice on a $350 item and hope I like what shows up. Anyhow thanks for confirming that there is no side zipper.

Do they not take returns?


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litetrek
08-25-2017, 11:03
"Hey Boss! De phone! De phone!"
But seriously. I'm going to be in the neighborhood soon. I'm sorely tempted to pay them a visit.
Wayne


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I work in a place that doesn't allow personal calls from my desk. So the phone is a problem. I have an almost 50 mile commute in gridlocked city traffic so most businesses (even out west) are closed by the time I get home. And also info you get over the phone isn't always accurate. I bought a 400 clark hammock that way because their website also sucked at the time and was still surprise by what showed up. You can't ask questions about unexpected results.

litetrek
08-25-2017, 11:06
I'm sure they do but you have to pay the return postage and a backpack costs about 25 to ship. Not willing to do that. Anyhow, there's no point in beating the issue to death. I'm just stating my opinion. I'm confident they are losing business because of the incomplete and inaccurate info on their website. For the time being they've lost mine.

SWODaddy
08-25-2017, 11:11
Unfortunately I have to repeat that their website is awful. I've spent hours on it trying to figure out exactly what you get when you buy a divide and you just can't be sure. Trying to sell a product sight unseen over the internet requires correct, clear and concise information. I'm not going to roll the dice on a $350 item and hope I like what shows up. Anyhow thanks for confirming that there is no side zipper.

Why don't you give them a call instead of spending hours online looking at pictures? If you want something made to your exacting specifications, you need a cottage vendor who doesn't have an IT staff and has products which are always evolving.

saltysack
08-25-2017, 11:44
Why don't you give them a call instead of spending hours online looking at pictures? If you want something made to your exacting specifications, you need a cottage vendor who doesn't have an IT staff and has products which are always evolving.

+1


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saltysack
08-25-2017, 11:46
[QUOTE=litetrek;2166764]I'm sure they do but you have to pay the return postage and a backpack costs about 25 to ship. Not willing to do that. Anyhow, there's no point in beating the issue to death. I'm just stating my opinion. I'm confident they are losing business because of the incomplete and inaccurate info on their website. For the time being they've lost mine.

I'd rather spend $25 to return than piss away hours off my time!!!!
Just my $.02



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litetrek
08-25-2017, 12:40
[QUOTE=litetrek;2166764]I'm sure they do but you have to pay the return postage and a backpack costs about 25 to ship. Not willing to do that. Anyhow, there's no point in beating the issue to death. I'm just stating my opinion. I'm confident they are losing business because of the incomplete and inaccurate info on their website. For the time being they've lost mine.

I'd rather spend $25 to return than piss away hours off my time!!!!
Just my $.02

Like I said, I had a bad and expensive experience calling clark hammock about their tx-250. They answered none of my questions to my satisfaction. I'm an engineer and I want an exact answer. What you get at a lot of these places is "its sort of like this, its hard to describe did you look at the website, a little like that but smaller, we're a cottage manufacturer so every one is a little different, etc."

I didn't start the thread to get advice on how to find out about the details of the divide. Calling them is an obvious answer. As I've posted in several previous posts you can't ask questions about the things you don't expect. I've bought a hammock, a tarp, a quilt, a bunch of hammock suspension stuff and two underquilts from cottage manufacturers. I would say that I have a lot of experience with purchasing cottage made gear from the net. My experience has been that for every item I've bought there was at least one unexpected negative surprise discovered at the unboxing. For example I bought a top quilt for about $250 from a manufacturer on the net. Called him, talked, asked questions and put in my order. When the quilt arrived the snaps, simply described as snaps on the website, were cheap plastic. There was a note in the box saying to treat them with care because they are fragile and break easily. It also said they pull out of the fabric easily. I could not have possible asked about the unexpected snaps. The pictures looked like the typical metal snaps I was expecting.

I don't particularly like buying anything without seeing it first. Thats why I asked the questions. I'm sorry if you and others are annoyed by it but I trust people who are using the equipment to give me a straight answer more than the people selling it trying to make money off the sale.

egilbe
08-25-2017, 12:50
What I find most ironic is that Seek Outsides website is lightyears better than it was when I bought my Unaweep. Customer service has been outstanding when I've emailed them. Maybe emailing and asking for better pics woukd be easier for you?

saltysack
08-25-2017, 13:37
[QUOTE=saltysack;2166776]
Like I said, I had a bad and expensive experience calling clark hammock about their tx-250. They answered none of my questions to my satisfaction. I'm an engineer and I want an exact answer. What you get at a lot of these places is "its sort of like this, its hard to describe did you look at the website, a little like that but smaller, we're a cottage manufacturer so every one is a little different, etc."

I didn't start the thread to get advice on how to find out about the details of the divide. Calling them is an obvious answer. As I've posted in several previous posts you can't ask questions about the things you don't expect. I've bought a hammock, a tarp, a quilt, a bunch of hammock suspension stuff and two underquilts from cottage manufacturers. I would say that I have a lot of experience with purchasing cottage made gear from the net. My experience has been that for every item I've bought there was at least one unexpected negative surprise discovered at the unboxing. For example I bought a top quilt for about $250 from a manufacturer on the net. Called him, talked, asked questions and put in my order. When the quilt arrived the snaps, simply described as snaps on the website, were cheap plastic. There was a note in the box saying to treat them with care because they are fragile and break easily. It also said they pull out of the fabric easily. I could not have possible asked about the unexpected snaps. The pictures looked like the typical metal snaps I was expecting.

I don't particularly like buying anything without seeing it first. Thats why I asked the questions. I'm sorry if you and others are annoyed by it but I trust people who are using the equipment to give me a straight answer more than the people selling it trying to make money off the sale.

[emoji106] best of luck!!!!


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cmoulder
08-25-2017, 14:08
I have no dog in this fight because I'm perfectly happy with my clutch of Zpacks products and have no need for a heavy hauler, but if the SO pack 'checks all the boxes' for your desired features then perhaps it's worth it to take a bit of a risk with it. Sure as hell aren't going to find something similar at typical retailers selling to the mass market. :o

litetrek
08-25-2017, 20:40
[QUOTE=litetrek;2166780]

[emoji106] best of luck!!!!


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Thanks. I'll figure it out. I may go back to making what I want. The divide isn't really it.