View Full Version : Aqua Mira and gut bacteria
brian.spigel
08-21-2017, 12:21
Howdy,
So I was on trail a couple weeks ago when an Irish woman came to the shelter where I was eating my dinner. She had apparently never seen Aqua Mira before, so she asked me all about it and I explained how it worked. Then she asked, "But if you put it in your water to kill the bacteria, and then you drink the water, doesn't it kill the (good) bacteria in your gut?"
I had honestly never given that a moment's thought.
Does it?
I know I could ask Aqua Mira, but I would expect some corporate white-washing from them. I'm hoping someone here has science from chemical/medical/public works experience that's relevant.
Thanks.
Doesn't the wait period give the reaction time to run it's course?
Wayne
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Wow, our culture has progress pretty far. Dis the greedy corporations and trust the "experts" on the internet.
BTW the same compound is used in public water systems, so it's ok because the guberment approved it. Ask your congress person, they'll give you the straight skinny.
Toons. What are you going to do?
Did you ask the Irish lady what happens to the good bacteria when you toss down a shot of Jameson?
Wayne
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Another Kevin
08-21-2017, 13:24
In short, no.
Aqua Mira works by being an oxidant. It'll pretty much destroy anything organic until it's consumed.
In your water, assuming that you didn't start out with really turbid stuff, there is very little organic matter, and some of it is the nasties that you don't want to drink.
As soon as it hits your gut, there's enough organic matter around that it'll pretty much be gone in seconds to minutes, and there will be plenty of your gut bacteria left over.
It's not like antibiotics, which are specific poisons to bacteria, and which pretty much stick around until either your liver destroys them or you excrete them. Those can indeed mess up your gut flora.
brian.spigel
08-21-2017, 13:41
Aqua Mira works by being an oxidant. It'll pretty much destroy anything organic until it's consumed. As soon as it hits your gut, there's enough organic matter around that it'll pretty much be gone in seconds to minutes, and there will be plenty of your gut bacteria left over.
So it doesn't affect the gut bacteria because it gets "used up" on all the other organics it first encounters in your digestive tract?
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but doesn't it then depend on quantity of food in your system/amount of treated water drunk in X amount of time? If you use Aqua Mira for 90% of your water drunk over a 3-6 month period (assuming there's some municipal water from time to time), you're bound to consume during periods of an empty stomach, diarrhea, excessive thirst, etc.
I wouldn't assume ideal conditions, especially on a prolonged backpacking trip. So perhaps I should alter my question a little by asking if Aqua Mira *could* damage gut bacteria?
Like I said. Toons. What can you do with them?
There's no doubt in my mind that the FDA had some input prior to the product being offered for sale to an unknowing public.
Wayne
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peakbagger
08-21-2017, 14:13
My personal observation is that Iodine had gastric effects. Without TMI, loose as a goose is pretty good description.:rolleyes;) Others I talked to had the same issues. I and others switched to AQ and the issues went away.
The Kisco Kid
08-21-2017, 14:26
You know what will really mess up your gut?
Giardia.
Another Kevin
08-21-2017, 15:34
So it doesn't affect the gut bacteria because it gets "used up" on all the other organics it first encounters in your digestive tract?
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but doesn't it then depend on quantity of food in your system/amount of treated water drunk in X amount of time? If you use Aqua Mira for 90% of your water drunk over a 3-6 month period (assuming there's some municipal water from time to time), you're bound to consume during periods of an empty stomach, diarrhea, excessive thirst, etc.
I wouldn't assume ideal conditions, especially on a prolonged backpacking trip. So perhaps I should alter my question a little by asking if Aqua Mira *could* damage gut bacteria?
I'm not assuming ideal conditions. You're likely getting the same stuff from your water tap, unless you're drinking from a home well. Lots of municipal water systems use chlorine dioxide, or mixed oxidants. I strongly suspect that your gastric mucus alone is enough organic material to reduce all the chlorine dioxide to chloride.
If you want to be sure, after you've given the Aqua Mira the full contact time, throw in a pinch of powdered lemonade mix. There's enough citrate and Vitamin C in there to neutralize the oxidants - that's why it kills the taste of iodine- or chlorine-based treatments. DO NOT DO THIS without giving it the full contact time, because then it'll be ineffective at killing the nasties.
After a thru-hike, I always assumed that some but not all good gut bacteria was gone and some yogurt or probiotics might be a good idea. Beyond that, I don't think about it. It's been my water treatment of choice since 2009.
Tennessee Viking
08-21-2017, 17:08
And what about bleach.
MuddyWaters
08-21-2017, 17:30
Am creates 4 ppm clo2
In a liter, thats......wait for it...0.004 g.
4 mg.
If you drank enough to hurt you....no doubt it would do bad things. But your gastric juices alone are enough to consume it.
I know I could ask Aqua Mira, but I would expect some corporate white-washing from them. I'm hoping someone here has science from chemical/medical/public works experience that's relevant.
You trust the product enough to use it, but don't trust the company enough to answer a question about their product? If you're that worried, use a filter if you trust one. Otherwise, you're left with boiling water or going untreated.
brian.spigel
08-21-2017, 22:14
You trust the product enough to use it, but don't trust the company enough to answer a question about their product? If you're that worried, use a filter if you trust one. Otherwise, you're left with boiling water or going untreated.
It didn't occur to me until after I started using it.
Aqua Mira has two bottles that are mixed together shortly before the water is consumed. Is it not possible to mix them together beforehand and just carry one bottle instead of both?
gpburdelljr
08-22-2017, 07:30
Aqua Mira has two bottles that are mixed together shortly before the water is consumed. Is it not possible to mix them together beforehand and just carry one bottle instead of both?
The chemical compound formed by mixing the two parts will only last a certain amount of time before it is no longer effective. I don't know how long that is, so it's better to follow the instructions.
My thinking is that it may be sold separately as it has an undetermined store life, but mixed together it might have enough longevity to last long enough to do what its meant to do.
MuddyWaters
08-22-2017, 09:43
Aqua Mira has two bottles that are mixed together shortly before the water is consumed. Is it not possible to mix them together beforehand and just carry one bottle instead of both?
For a limited time, yes.
Many people will premix enough for a couple liters in a 3 ml dropper. Sealed up tight, it lasts at least 24 hrs. In my experience, it will last a couple days that way . But must keep it sealed, and dark, away from uv.
peakbagger
08-22-2017, 09:45
There was similar product to Aqua Mira that was based on mixing a days worth of product into a bottle to be used during the day. This cut out the 5 minute mix step but added some complexity in planning water use during the day. The CLO2 breaks down pretty quickly so a new batch had to be made every day.
gpburdelljr
08-22-2017, 11:07
For a limited time, yes.
Many people will premix enough for a couple liters in a 3 ml dropper. Sealed up tight, it lasts at least 24 hrs. In my experience, it will last a couple days that way . But must keep it sealed, and dark, away from uv.
How do you know it is effective for a few days?
MuddyWaters
08-22-2017, 11:13
Because the solution is still bright yellow and smells strongly. If you wait long enough it turns clear white again.
Do you lose some strength with time? Definitely. Does it matter......that depends. I rarely use more than half reccomended amt anyway, because water has low contaminant level, and I might be waiting longer too.
Exception is like CT where cow , sheep, and horses are abundant
You know what will really mess up your gut?
Giardia.
I can second this - for years I was carrying the aqua mira and seldom using it, after giardia I use it
AllDownhillFromHere
08-22-2017, 11:39
+1 for bleach, also +1 for just drinking the water out of the ground
theinfamousj
08-22-2017, 12:22
Howdy,
So I was on trail a couple weeks ago when an Irish woman came to the shelter where I was eating my dinner. She had apparently never seen Aqua Mira before, so she asked me all about it and I explained how it worked. Then she asked, "But if you put it in your water to kill the bacteria, and then you drink the water, doesn't it kill the (good) bacteria in your gut?"
I had honestly never given that a moment's thought.
Does it?
I know I could ask Aqua Mira, but I would expect some corporate white-washing from them. I'm hoping someone here has science from chemical/medical/public works experience that's relevant.
Thanks.It does kill those exact same bacteria in your gut. But then again, those aren't bacteria you want in your gut, so there is that.
Not all anti-bactetials kill all bacteria. You have to match the anti- to the bacteria.
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I have 3 bottles of Coghlans water purification tablets that takes 30 minutes to kick in. Much lighter than carrying AM and more convenient. It must be an American product as it has a spiel about Federal Law etc. Some of it is written in French. Having seen no Frenchmen dying on the trail it must be effective. Does anyone else use it, and if not, why not?
peakbagger
08-22-2017, 13:17
I have 3 bottles of Coghlans water purification tablets that takes 30 minutes to kick in. Much lighter than carrying AM and more convenient. It must be an American product as it has a spiel about Federal Law etc. Some of it is written in French. Having seen no Frenchmen dying on the trail it must be effective. Does anyone else use it, and if not, why not?
I did a quick search and the Coghlans water puritifcation tablets appear to be iodine based. Iodine is not very effective for Giardia or cryptosporidium. Giardia generally doesnt kill a healthy adult but can make for miserable sickness. Cryptospridium is Giardia on steroids it kicks in quicker and the symptoms are far worse.
Many of those tab type treatments loose efficacy after opening. If the package is opened on one trip they recommend throwing them away and buying a new sealed package.
DownEaster
08-22-2017, 13:26
I have 3 bottles of Coghlans water purification tablets that takes 30 minutes to kick in. Much lighter than carrying AM and more convenient. It must be an American product as it has a spiel about Federal Law etc. Some of it is written in French.
Coghlan's is an outdoors accessory supplier based in Winnipeg (Manitoba, Canada) and they sell in the U.S. and Canada (hence the two languages on their packages).
MuddyWaters
08-22-2017, 14:26
The advantage of AM is to match usage to water conditions, and $. If just going to add rec. amt, use the tabs.....easier.
Scratching around on the internet, someone stated that chlorine dioxide (Aqua Mira) takes up to four hours to kill Cryptospridium.
I have both AM and the tabs. Also have two filters. Not really keen on bringing one or the other, (Sawyer Mini/Straw) hence looking at my options and for wisdom as I don't have a death wish :)
MuddyWaters
08-22-2017, 15:18
Scratching around on the internet, someone stated that chlorine dioxide (Aqua Mira) takes up to four hours to kill Cryptospridium.
Yes it do
Nobody worries about crypto
When its likely livestock contaminated water, I filter.
I figure on the CT portions I filtered, (much), I lost an hour per day of hiking time to filtering. I normally go with AM because its so much faster.