View Full Version : Stretching your fuel longer
Back on the trail
09-20-2017, 17:06
I haven't tried them yet But I found this on the shelf at Walmart. I they work:-?; I bet you could use a lot less alcohol to just rewarm these noodles.
These were discussed a few months ago. Isn't this cooked pasta packed wet? Like a myriad of Indian and Asian rice sides in supermarkets everywhere? If so, the pasta and packaging far outweigh any fuel savings.
The package in your photo weighs 8.5 ounces. How many servings is that?
Alas, no free lunch.
The Barilla Tortellini is quite tasty and soaks and cooks fairly quickly. Tastes better in my mouth than a Knorr side.
Wayne
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MuddyWaters
09-20-2017, 21:05
dehydrate your own pasta....soak in freezer bag. Rehydrates nicely.
things that are precooked...rehydrate nicely. Ramen. Minute rice. etc.
There is some precooked and dried pasta you can buy. One kind is an asian noodle.
OR....simply pre-soak your pasta for 90 min in cold water. Then cook it for 1 minute. Its done.
Go to the Asian section of any well stocked supermarket. There are numerous brands and versions of rice noodles that cook fast. Read the cooking directions.
You're looking for directions like: Add noodles to X amount of water. Bring to boil. Remove from heat. Let stand for 5 minutes. Eat. Sounds like Freezer Bag Cooking to me. Right? You may wish to break down the noodles and water into individual servings depending on the size of the box of noodles.
Wayne
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OR....simply pre-soak your pasta for 90 min in cold water. Then cook it for 1 minute. Its done.
This method has worked great for the dried tortellini. I'll soak them for 1 to 2 hours before dinner. Bring to boil. Then let them sit for another 5 minutes or so.
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DownEaster
09-21-2017, 02:16
This method has worked great for the dried tortellini. I'll soak them for 1 to 2 hours before dinner. Bring to boil. Then let them sit for another 5 minutes or so.
Wow, I'm impressed by your willpower. I can't really contemplate waiting 1-2 hours from reaching camp to starting dinner. My wait time is in minutes, not hours.
capehiker
09-21-2017, 05:50
Wow, I'm impressed by your willpower. I can't really contemplate waiting 1-2 hours from reaching camp to starting dinner. My wait time is in minutes, not hours.
You could always do a cold soak in a screw top jar (the plastics Talenti containers are popular) a few miles from camp to get it started.
cmoulder
09-21-2017, 08:25
I have carried a can of chili for a simple overnighter when I was doing some sort of gear test and wasn't going too far into the woods. But for anything more than that, it is IMO moronic to carry any pre-hydrated food. :o
HooKooDooKu
09-21-2017, 10:35
Go to the Asian section of any well stocked supermarket. There are numerous brands and versions of rice noodles that cook fast. Read the cooking directions.
You're looking for directions like: Add noodles to X amount of water. Bring to boil. Remove from heat. Let stand for 5 minutes. Eat. Sounds like Freezer Bag Cooking to me. Right? You may wish to break down the noodles and water into individual servings depending on the size of the box of noodles.
Wayne
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I get Somen Noodles from a local Asian Market. They only need to boil for about 1 to 2 minutes and there ready to go. Kids love them enough that I buy them more for home use than for camping.
MuddyWaters
09-21-2017, 11:23
I have carried a can of chili for a simple overnighter when I was doing some sort of gear test and wasn't going too far into the woods. But for anything more than that, it is IMO moronic to carry any pre-hydrated food. :o
Not necesarilly
We carry dehydrated because its lighter than carrying water ....if we can get water to rehydrate on trail.
If you have to carry all your water....it doesnt matter.
In places with no water, like big bend np, bring whatever you like. Dont matter if water is separate from food, or in food.
DownEaster
09-21-2017, 11:28
You could always do a cold soak in a screw top jar (the plastics Talenti containers are popular) a few miles from camp to get it started.
Why would I want to carry water all that way? I'd rather eat my meal earlier where water is convenient, then hike a bit more with no meal at the end of the day. Water in the body is the best-balanced load.
cmoulder
09-21-2017, 12:12
Not necesarilly
We carry dehydrated because its lighter than carrying water ....if we can get water to rehydrate on trail.
If you have to carry all your water....it doesnt matter.
In places with no water, like big bend np, bring whatever you like. Dont matter if water is separate from food, or in food.
This is a rare exception, and a point I made recently in a similar discussion at BPL. But even under this scenario it is hardly ever worth it to carry hydrated food from both the weight and volume perspectives unless you're not going to find another water source for 5 days or so... how often does that happen, even in most desert backpacking venues?
MuddyWaters
09-21-2017, 12:17
This is a rare exception, and a point I made recently in a similar discussion at BPL. But even under this scenario it is hardly ever worth it to carry hydrated food from both the weight and volume perspectives unless you're not going to find another water source for 5 days or so... how often does that happen, even in most desert backpacking venues?
I want to see person that carry 5 days water. That be about ....55 lbs...minimum.
Its very plausible for 1-1.5 days. I done it
Wow, I'm impressed by your willpower. I can't really contemplate waiting 1-2 hours from reaching camp to starting dinner. My wait time is in minutes, not hours.I start soaking well before reaching camp. Not really a matter of willpower, more like forethought.
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You could always do a cold soak in a screw top jar (the plastics Talenti containers are popular) a few miles from camp to get it started.I just use the ziplock baggie and move it to a safe spot in my pack. No problems to date.
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Buried in the bowels of WhiteBlaze is a one time quick test of the Barilla Tortellini performed on my kitchen stove top.
It went something like this:
Place water and tortellini in a pot on the stove.
Turn on stove. Bring water to a boil.
Turn off stove. Remove pot from burner and let stand covered.
At 5 minutes the tortellini was chewy. Between 10 & 12 minutes the tortellini was just right.
I have some new cooking gear to test and I shall repeat the test with the tortellini.
Stand by.
Wayne
Buried in the bowels of WhiteBlaze is a one time quick test of the Barilla Tortellini performed on my kitchen stove top.
It went something like this:
Place water and tortellini in a pot on the stove.
Turn on stove. Bring water to a boil.
Turn off stove. Remove pot from burner and let stand covered.
At 5 minutes the tortellini was chewy. Between 10 & 12 minutes the tortellini was just right.
I have some new cooking gear to test and I shall repeat the test with the tortellini.
Stand by.
Wayne
Let's see if this works. Latest successful pasta cooking experiment.
Adventures in cooking on my deck - I
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=24664&share_tid=126698&share_pid=2171386&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ewhiteblaze%2Enet%2Fforum%2 Fshowpost%2Ephp%3Fp%3D2171386&share_type=t
There it is.
Wayne
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One way I save fuel is don't bring the water all the way to a boil. 175º to195º is plenty hot enough for rehydrating food and making coffee. Only good reason to boil water is to sterilize it if you don't have a filter or chemical. Soaking the food an hour or two before camp is a great idea. Just add the water to the ziplock and put the ziplock inside the cozy to hold it upright in your side pocket. I carry a 750ml cup in my side pocket, just right for holding a nalgene or smart water bottle or for holding the meal while it rehydrates. Only add a portion of the water cold, then when I get to camp add enough hot water to make the meal tasty and satisfying. Sure you are carrying an extra few ounces of water that last hour or so before camp, but the upside is you get a delicious hot dinner.
Soaking, in this case, would be dumb.
As for bringing the water to a boil, the JetBoil does it so quickly, I doubt that the water exceeded your 195 degrees for more than a nano second before I closed the valve.
I had a hot dinner. For this recipe, soaking would be completely superfluous and probably yield mushy pasta.
Where did I mention a Ziploc?
You go your way and I'll go mine.
Wayne
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Soaking, in this case, would be dumb.
As for bringing the water to a boil, the JetBoil does it so quickly, I doubt that the water exceeded your 195 degrees for more than a nano second before I closed the valve.
I had a hot dinner. For this recipe, soaking would be completely superfluous and probably yield mushy pasta.
Where did I mention a Ziploc?
You go your way and I'll go mine.
Wayne
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not everything is about you.....i was responding to the thread. sorry to confuse you.
I apologize for my tone.
However, I rarely boil water below 10,000'. 190-195 degrees from a rolling boil is maxed out for me. I'm testing now at 400'. I may need to adjust my process. I had good luck with Good To-Go and Mountain House meals and the JetBoil at 10,000' + in September. Pre-soaking not needed.
Wayne
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I'm headed out for a couple of nights tomorrow and will give the extended 12 minute method a try.
On my last hike I was a bit short on fuel (Esbit) and tried to save as much as possible.
It worked great for my DIY-dehydrated food, to just add medium-hot water and let it soak for longer time. Taste and bite was perfect.
It didn't work that great for my Treck'nEat dehydrated meal. This would definitely need some really hot water.
And tea (good British Black Tea) does only work with boiling water, there's no other way.
Tried to take my late-morning breakfast Capuccino with just medium-hot water. Again, half of the taste and most of the experience of sipping a hot coffee is gone, if the water isn't really hot.
chiefduffy
09-27-2017, 18:18
Also, heat water you have been carrying for a while, or in the morning, water you put in your sleeping bag with you. Ice cold spring water requires a lot more fuel.
On my last hike I was a bit short on fuel (Esbit) and tried to save as much as possible.
It worked great for my DIY-dehydrated food, to just add medium-hot water and let it soak for longer time. Taste and bite was perfect.
It didn't work that great for my Treck'nEat dehydrated meal. This would definitely need some really hot water.
And tea (good British Black Tea) does only work with boiling water, there's no other way.
Tried to take my late-morning breakfast Capuccino with just medium-hot water. Again, half of the taste and most of the experience of sipping a hot coffee is gone, if the water isn't really hot.
We all have our preferences for water temperature and I agree that medium hot water is inadequate for full flavor in coffee or tea. Recommended tap water temperature is usually 120º and you cannot make coffee or tea with that. Yuck. Recommended for fragile tea is 180º and hardier teas such as your Britsh black is up to boiling. Recommended for coffee is 195º to 205º which is more than medium hot, it is a soft boil.
Ziploc bags have a softening point of 195º which means the bag begins to melt. If you are heating your food to boiling you probably want to use a metal pot.
Ziploc bags are approved for reheating foods in microwaves where the reheating temperature is about 165º.
I believe that water heated to 195º is friendlier around camp. I've accidentally scalded myself with both soft boil and hard boil and I recall the hard boil hurts more and the hurt lasts longer.
What brand of thermometer should we be carrying? How much does it weigh?
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Wayne
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I get Somen Noodles from a local Asian Market. They only need to boil for about 1 to 2 minutes and there ready to go. Kids love them enough that I buy them more for home use than for camping.
I too find Somen Buckwheat Noodles to cokk al dente faster than most pastas.
One should also pay attention to the type of pasta for the trail as some varieties like large rigatoni, linguine, fettuccine, larger farfalle(bow ties), conchiglie(shells), cavatelli, tortellini(non pre cooked), gemelli, etc take longer to cook compared to ancini pepe, ditalini, tiny orzo, angel hair, etc. Remember pasta isn't just an Italian staple. Asian noodles(pastas) are basically ready almost instantaneously in some cases.
And pastas and noodles can be prepared and eaten at tepid temps. One I like is sesame noodles made from Buckwheat(gluten free, good protein %) but made with almond or peanut butter, a packet or two of soy sauce(often free), a splash of sesame oil, sesame seeds(often free from bakeries or found in bulk bins) packet of red pepper flakes(often free), chopped fresh chives and if desired whatever meat. Chicken goes well as does reconstituted Badia brand shrimp. I'll sometimes slice up an avocado or add sprouts to it. Make enough for lunch or dinner that it carries over to the next no cook meal. Goes well with an Asian Pear and even some Goat Cheese.
What brand of thermometer should we be carrying? How much does it weigh?
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Wayne
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When the water starts moving and beading a little on the bottom of the pot is about 195º, when it starts surging to the top thats a soft boil at about 205º and when it starts rolling vigorously to the top is a hard boil at 212º. More or less and give or take a little bit :):)
The JetBoil isn't that subtle.
Shrimp eyes almost instantly.
Blink. Blink.
Rocking and rolling.
Ready.
The Pocket Rocket 2 will be auditioning soon.
Playing with stoves. Looking at maps.
The off-season.
Wayne
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You can temp water from it's boiling point if you know your approximate altitude. At sea level water boils at 212 degrees F, for every 500' above the temp lowers by about 1 degree. At 10k' water boils at 193 degrees, just shy of a nice hot cuppa.
MtDoraDave
09-28-2017, 07:01
I have a question, or perhaps a challenge to those of you who have a digital scale and a curiosity about fuel savings...this question may have been asked and answered around here before, but I don't recall seeing it.
With the jetboil or even with the pocket rocket/ olicamp xts (or monoprice pure outdoor), I have tested the time it takes to boil water at full blast and at half throttle, and of course the water boils faster at full blast - but - I have no way to accurately weigh the fuel canister to see if cooking at less than full throttle is more efficient, less efficient, or just quieter.
Curious to see or hear the results.
cmoulder
09-28-2017, 08:08
I have done a bunch of stove testing and almost always stoves are more fuel efficient at ABOUT 1/2 to 2/3 throttle.
Why the "ABOUT"?? Because it is extremely subjective and hard to quantify or standardize — it is a "feel" thing that varies from person to person, usually judged by the flame and noise being produced, not an actual measure of fuel flow or BTUs being produced... how would the average person do this anyway??
The difference is MUCH more dramatic with non-HX pots, and even more so with tall, skinny pots vs short, wide pots.
I don't know, but perhaps Hikin' Jim has done some tests and has some numbers at https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/
White gas stove: Coleman Apex Peak 1
Wide short covered aluminum pot
2 cups water & 2-3 ice cubes
8-9 minutes to boil
9 grams fuel used
Interpolate. Extrapolate. For BTU challenged fuels and stoves.
Wayne
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White gas stove: Coleman Apex Peak 1
Wide short covered aluminum pot
2 cups water & 2-3 ice cubes
8-9 minutes to boil
9 grams fuel used
Interpolate. Extrapolate. For BTU challenged fuels and stoves.
Wayne
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PS:
The fuel bottle for the Peak 1 holds fuel for 10 +++ days. Thereby negating the erroneous disappearance of white gas.
Wayne
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You can temp water from it's boiling point if you know your approximate altitude. At sea level water boils at 212 degrees F, for every 500' above the temp lowers by about 1 degree. At 10k' water boils at 193 degrees, just shy of a nice hot cuppa.
You got your OCD cranked up to max.
Way too much information.
On the other hand, Mountain House works well for me between 10k and 11.5k feet. Good To-Go meals are fine at 10k but a little crunchy above 11k, both at 20 minutes steeping per package instructions.
Wayne
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You got your OCD cranked up to max.
Way too much information.
On the other hand, Mountain House works well for me between 10k and 11.5k feet. Good To-Go meals are fine at 10k but a little crunchy above 11k, both at 20 minutes steeping per package instructions.
Wayne
just some misc knowledge I had. Full of useless crap like that. Figured it was relevant to the preferred hot beverage temps convo.
Grinning. I have information like that floating around in my brain.
I'm trying to distill it down to a manageable level.
Like maybe "Soak Good To-Go meals in a 2 step process and hope they stay hot." Better insulation too.
Bottom line: A 20 degree drop in the boiling point of water needs attention.
Cheers!
Wayne
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cmoulder
09-29-2017, 07:23
Bottom line: A 20 degree drop in the boiling point of water needs attention.
Boil longer or rehydrate longer in a good cozy... 192°F is still pretty darn hot. And/or re-heat as necessary.
Over time, and with experience, this is factored into your fuel requirements. But you know this! :)
I have done a bunch of stove testing and almost always stoves are more fuel efficient at ABOUT 1/2 to 2/3 throttle.
The difference is MUCH more dramatic with non-HX pots, and even more so with tall, skinny pots vs short, wide pots.
I don't know, but perhaps Hikin' Jim has done some tests and has some numbers at https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/
Thanks for sharing this.
I'm headed out for a couple of nights tomorrow and will give the extended 12 minute method a try.
Buried in the bowels of WhiteBlaze is a one time quick test of the Barilla Tortellini performed on my kitchen stove top.
It went something like this:
Place water and tortellini in a pot on the stove.
Turn on stove. Bring water to a boil.
Turn off stove. Remove pot from burner and let stand covered.
At 5 minutes the tortellini was chewy. Between 10 & 12 minutes the tortellini was just right.
I have some new cooking gear to test and I shall repeat the test with the tortellini.
Stand by.
Wayne
The above method worked just fine. I brought ~10 ounces of water and about a half cup of tortellini to a boil. Killed the stove and waited 12 minutes. I cut up salami while I waited. Added salami, parmesan cheese, olive oil, and red pepper flakes. I didn't drain the water. Prefer to eat it soup style.
No more soaking for me.
So glad it worked for you.
Tasty and filling I'm guessing?
Wayne
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Which Way
11-07-2017, 19:09
I just use the ziplock baggie and move it to a safe spot in my pack. No problems to date.
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I don't think he gets it DrL. My wife and I are planning the same way. We are dehydrating our food now, for an April start on the AT. We are doing this because we eat a plant based diet, and there is not a lot of options for us. We have already thought of soaking some things a couple of hours before reaching camp. And the ziplock bags can be eaten out of with a homemade cozy, and the only mess to clean up is packing out the empty bag until you arrive at the next town.
Which Way
11-07-2017, 19:14
I just use the ziplock baggie and move it to a safe spot in my pack. No problems to date.
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I don't think he gets it DrL. My wife and I are planning the same way. We are dehydrating our food now, for an April start on the AT. We are doing this because we eat a plant based diet, and there is not a lot of options for us. We have already thought of soaking some things a couple of hours before reaching camp. And the ziplock bags can be eaten out of with a homemade cozy, and the only mess to clean up is packing out the empty bag until you arrive at the next town.