Need trekking pole recommendation

[Chris_Cates]

Hello folks. I need some suggestions for trekking poles. I've got arthritis in my hands and I've found the straps make my hands go numb. I've bought two pair so far, Black Diamond Trail Shock Pro and Leki Corklite DSS. I dislike the edge on the top of the B/Ds, the rounded top of the Lekis are much more comfortable when palming on a descent. But the straps on the B/Ds are padded and it takes much longer for my hands to go numb with the padded straps than with the "skin" straps on the Lekis. I've been in contact with Leki customer service and while they do have padded straps I could put on the Corklite they advise against it because it's a very tight fit and makes it difficult to adjust.

The Leki THERMOLITE XL VERTICAL (https://www.leki.com/us/trekking/poles/2765/thermolite-xl-vertical/?c=708) looks interesting but I can't tell if the straps are padded or if they would make any difference and I hate to keep buying poles sight unseen.

Any advice?

[HooKooDooKu]

The straps on the Black Diamond poles I had were replaceable. I suspect the Leki poles would too. If you still own both sets, could you simply move the BD straps to the Leki poles?

[muzzo909]

Have you checked out Cascade Mountain Tech's Carbon Fiber Poles. They're cheap, light, and have a somewhat padded strap.
I bought a pair because they were really cheap so I thought I'd give them a try.
They are a little flimsier than comparable poles, but at a third of the price they definitely do the job.
Also, they sell parts if something breaks. I broke the middle section of one of the poles. I ordered that specific part and it was at my house in a week. And shipping on parts is FREE!!!
Check them out. Well worth the price point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Venchka]

$18.00 at Walmart. Start there. Figure out if you even need or want them.
Then go up the ladder.
Wayne

[Chris_Cates]

The straps on the Black Diamond poles I had were replaceable. I suspect the Leki poles would too. If you still own both sets, could you simply move the BD straps to the Leki poles?

I haven't been able to budge the pin holding the straps in to the B/D poles. I might be able to buy replacement straps but I suspect it would be the same issue that Leki warned me about with their padded straps, that they would be too tight to be easily adjusted.


Have you checked out Cascade Mountain Tech's Carbon Fiber Poles. They're cheap, light, and have a somewhat padded strap.
I bought a pair because they were really cheap so I thought I'd give them a try.
They are a little flimsier than comparable poles, but at a third of the price they definitely do the job.
Also, they sell parts if something breaks. I broke the middle section of one of the poles. I ordered that specific part and it was at my house in a week. And shipping on parts is FREE!!!
Check them out. Well worth the price point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a nice price but the top is the same shape as the B/D poles.


$18.00 at Walmart. Start there. Figure out if you even need or want them.
Then go up the ladder.
Wayne

I looked at those poles before buying the Lekis but the straps weren't padded on the ones they had in stock.

[HooKooDooKu]

I haven't been able to budge the pin holding the straps in to the B/D poles.
Have you read the instructions that come with the B/D? The pin has to be rotated to be loosened such that the straps can be removed.
Here's a YouTube video that shows how the Z-Poles work. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POpE4-8pMdI)

[Chris_Cates]

Different handles, different straps, different pins.

[Venchka]

Can you show us a photo of how your hands and straps are arranged? There are a couple different ways to do it. Perhaps you are causing the straps to put undue pressure on your hands?
Just a thought.
Wayne

[Maineiac64]

Maybe you can ad padding to the existing straps?

[rafe]

The Costco poles (Cascade Design) work for me. Cheap, too. $20 last time I looked. They were a steal at $30.

[Chris_Cates]

Can you show us a photo of how your hands and straps are arranged? There are a couple different ways to do it. Perhaps you are causing the straps to put undue pressure on your hands?
Just a thought.
Wayne

I'm doing it exactly as shown in this video. Except for the driving forward part on flat ground, I end up going too fast that way and I'm out there to enjoy the hike, not speed through it.


https://youtu.be/8jH9e4QGUP4


Maybe you can ad padding to the existing straps?

That's an option I'm considering, I just have concerns about durability of anything I could add. I've also thought about wearing padded gloves but I've been hiking in Florida in the summer so I'm not in much of a hurry to try that option.


The Costco poles (Cascade Design) work for me. Cheap, too. $20 last time I looked. They were a steal at $30.

These are the same ones suggested above. The straps may be good but the top shape has the same problem as the B/D poles I already have, and they have padded straps too. I'm looking for poles with the rounded top like the Lekis have and padded straps.

Another option I'm considering is having custom retaining pins made for my Lekis. Thicker pins is the reason Leki gives for not using padded straps on my existing poles, and I have several friends with lathes that could turn down a set out of stainless steel. But as with adding padding to the straps myself, I have concerns about durability on a thru hike. My goal with this thread is to find a set of poles I can purchase so that, if I damage or lose one on the trail, I can order replacement poles and carry on.

Basically I'm looking for this:
40364

According to Leki customer service this is no longer available with the padded straps.

[Venchka]

If your current strap hold isn't working, try something different?
Have you looked at Komperdell (also sold under REI and LL BEAN brands). Both of my Komperdell sets are comfortable for me. Simple and lightly padded straps. Right or wrong, I don't follow the video.
Good luck.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chris_Cates]

If your current strap hold isn't working, try something different?
Have you looked at Komperdell (also sold under REI and LL BEAN brands). Both of my Komperdell sets are comfortable for me. Simple and lightly padded straps. Right or wrong, I don't follow the video.
Good luck.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So this is what my grip looks like except I'm not gripping that tightly (image from Above and Beyond How to on trekking poles. (http://www.aboveandbeyond.co.uk/blog/how-to-use-walking-poles/)). If needed I'll photograph my hand later today but this is what it looks like.

https://i1.wp.com/www.aboveandbeyond.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/Trekking-Pole-Grip-Instructions-1.png

The Komperdells have the edge around the top like the B/D has.

[Venchka]

And what is the problem with that way of wrapping the strap around the back of your hand? I forgot.
Everyone is different. If the straps bother you in that position, try something different.
Case in point: Tuna in foil + Knorr Side + Ziploc Freezer bag. I can't choke that mess down. By the same token, numerous folks say they detest the meals I eat.
To each his own.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chris_Cates]

And what is the problem with that way of wrapping the strap around the back of your hand? I forgot.
Everyone is different. If the straps bother you in that position, try something different.
Case in point: Tuna in foil + Knorr Side + Ziploc Freezer bag. I can't choke that mess down. By the same token, numerous folks say they detest the meals I eat.
To each his own.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The problem is in the strap interacting with my arthritis and my hands going numb. Padding on the strap helps so I'm looking for trekking poles that have padded straps but also have the more comfortable rounded top for palming on descents.

[Venchka]

What happens if you don't use the straps?
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Venchka]

This?
http://www.komperdell.com/en/poles/trekking/produkt.php?id=176_2402_10
Or that. The Carbon Vario 4 grip has a rounded top and the edge is radiused.
http://www.komperdell.com/en/poles/trekking/produkt.php?id=194_2313_10
How about a proper hiking staff. No grip. No strap. Just a bamboo stick. I have one of those too. No hand fatigue.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cheyou]

http://pacerpole.com/

have you seen those

[Chris_Cates]

What happens if you don't use the straps?
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I almost never use them without the straps simply because the arthritis has reduced my hand strength. I can't imagine having to hold them for hours at a time, as it is now I'm mostly just using my fingers to control them and any force I put on them is through the straps.


This?
http://www.komperdell.com/en/poles/trekking/produkt.php?id=176_2402_10
Or that. The Carbon Vario 4 grip has a rounded top and the edge is radiused.
http://www.komperdell.com/en/poles/trekking/produkt.php?id=194_2313_10
How about a proper hiking staff. No grip. No strap. Just a bamboo stick. I have one of those too. No hand fatigue.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That first one is interesting looking, I may order a pair and see how they feel. I'll need to look at my tent and see how they'll work with it though, I've got a zpacks duplex and the poles are what holds it up.


http://pacerpole.com/

have you seen those

I have looked at them but the whole arthritis/hand strength issue falls into that again.

[Chris_Cates]

Nope, not going to work with the tent. Looks like a good solution otherwise.

[kbstock]

thinking about this from a different angle.....I'm a cyclist and after riding15-20 miles, my thumbs would get all tingly and eventually go numb...tried all the different padded cycling gloves (which I hated)...eventually I said something about it outloud and one of my more experienced riding friends said it was a simple solution...just need to make certain I change positions of my hands every so often and actually shake them out, move them around, as if I'm playing an imaginary piano. Did the trick.
Doing this might help your situation, don't know...but its certainly worth giving a little bandwidth to. The trick is to remember to do so every five minutes or so.....now its just second nature.

[Venchka]

Nope, not going to work with the tent. Looks like a good solution otherwise.

Joe sells weightless folding carbon poles for your tent. I camped with a WhiteBlaze member in Wyoming who doesn't use trekking poles and the the accessory poles work perfectly.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chris_Cates]

thinking about this from a different angle.....I'm a cyclist and after riding15-20 miles, my thumbs would get all tingly and eventually go numb...tried all the different padded cycling gloves (which I hated)...eventually I said something about it outloud and one of my more experienced riding friends said it was a simple solution...just need to make certain I change positions of my hands every so often and actually shake them out, move them around, as if I'm playing an imaginary piano. Did the trick.
Doing this might help your situation, don't know...but its certainly worth giving a little bandwidth to. The trick is to remember to do so every five minutes or so.....now its just second nature.

I'm already constantly switching up position on the poles since I'm usually the first one out on my favorite trail so I take down a large percentage of the spiderwebs crossing the trail with the poles, almost as many as I take down with my face. Shaking out my hands may do the trick though if I can get in the habit.


Joe sells weightless folding carbon poles for your tent. I camped with a WhiteBlaze member in Wyoming who doesn't use trekking poles and the the accessory poles work perfectly.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I looked at those online yesterday. Komperdell lists Zpacks as a distributor and there's a few more little things I'm going to eventually order from them anyway but it turns out REI has them in the garage sale. My next opportunity to hike is Tuesday so I'll try the hand-shaking then.

[Venchka]

I went out to the garage at Zero Dark:30 this morning. Refreshed my memory on strap use.
Straps are loose.
Hold pole horizontal. Strap hanging vertical.
Slide hand through strap loop.
Lower pole to vertical and grasp pole grip.
Strap remains loose and only touches wrist.
Last resort: See your Doctor.
Mobic or Meloxicam (generic form of Mobic). 7.5 mg twice a day. Works for my 71+ year old joints.
Good luck!
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Puddlefish]

Have you checked out Cascade Mountain Tech's Carbon Fiber Poles. They're cheap, light, and have a somewhat padded strap.
I bought a pair because they were really cheap so I thought I'd give them a try.
They are a little flimsier than comparable poles, but at a third of the price they definitely do the job.
Also, they sell parts if something breaks. I broke the middle section of one of the poles. I ordered that specific part and it was at my house in a week. And shipping on parts is FREE!!!
Check them out. Well worth the price point.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Loved these while they lasted. I wore the tips out around mile 500, ordered replacement lower sections (they don't just sell tips) at a reasonable price. Due to leaving the trail the replacements never made it to me. (I suspect the hotel I shipped them to, just tossed them in the trash instead of forwarding the package as I requested.)

I bought a set of Lekis locally next, as I was in too much of a rush to wait for shipping. I flat out hate the straps on the Lekis, they're too thin and cut off the circulation on my wrists. I'll grab some thicker, wider material and sew it on by hand, which should solve that problem.

[tawa]

Leki--Leki-Leki ! ! Lifetime guarantee and customer service is golden!

[poolskaterx]

Hard to beat the shape of the Leki grips; I think maybe you make some "padding sleeves" that attach over the Leki straps.

[Venchka]

But first...
Grab the grips with the straps flat between your palm and grip. Or flopping loosely over the backs of your hands. Find out if the straps are causing circulation problems or cramping your grip.
I'm convinced that I developed the dreaded Trigger Finger on the middle finger of my right hand last year in Colorado. A change in strap placement and a round of oral steroids cured it. Injections and surgery not required.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chris_Cates]

Loved these while they lasted. I wore the tips out around mile 500, ordered replacement lower sections (they don't just sell tips) at a reasonable price. Due to leaving the trail the replacements never made it to me. (I suspect the hotel I shipped them to, just tossed them in the trash instead of forwarding the package as I requested.)

I bought a set of Lekis locally next, as I was in too much of a rush to wait for shipping. I flat out hate the straps on the Lekis, they're too thin and cut off the circulation on my wrists. I'll grab some thicker, wider material and sew it on by hand, which should solve that problem.


Hard to beat the shape of the Leki grips; I think maybe you make some "padding sleeves" that attach over the Leki straps.

Yep, that's where I'm at. I love the shape but the straps suck. I had the idea to make a padded sleeve to go over the straps a couple of nights ago but too much work to do that right now. I've got a project due the end of the week and I'm still going to try to get a hike or two in so won't be spending any time sewing yet.


But first...
Grab the grips with the straps flat between your palm and grip. Or flopping loosely over the backs of your hands. Find out if the straps are causing circulation problems or cramping your grip.
I'm convinced that I developed the dreaded Trigger Finger on the middle finger of my right hand last year in Colorado. A change in strap placement and a round of oral steroids cured it. Injections and surgery not required.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It can't be too tight a grip, I'm barely gripping at all. Mostly I just steer the poles with my finger tips and only grip down when I'm going up a steep hill. The arthritis diagnosis was made via imagery so I'm not doubting it.

If all goes well I'll be hiking tomorrow morning and I'll try shaking my hands out as much as I can remember.

[ScareBear]

So, your arthritis. Since it was confirmed by imaging, am I to assume it is osteoarthritis instead of RA and/or PA?

I suffer from RA/PA and it has eaten away my flexor tendon in my left thumb. It is now a useless appendage.

That said, I NEVER use my pole straps. NEVER. I ski, ski tour and hike. I consider falling with straps on to be a serious safety hazard, both downhill skiing and hiking in terrain. I don't use poles outside of fairly serious terrain.

I know I lack an empathy gene, or two. So, when I say that if I, without a functioning left thumb and arthritis in both hands, wrists, elbows, shoulders, etc...can carry my poles and NEVER use straps, I am pretty sure you can too.

There are options. Wrist braces, with and without rigid supports. Thumb braces. Pre-curved gloves. Custom orthotic gloves.

Finally, do like I had to do when I still tried to be competitive at golf...get oversized orthotic grips. Well, since they don't make them for hiking poles, you will have to try it yourself. Closed-cell foam for insulating water pipes and cloth tape would be a good place to start experimenting....you will need a sharp razor knife or box cutter...

Good luck. There is an old thread on this board that is many pages long on proper strap technique v. no straps.

YMMV. HYOH.

[Venchka]

I wasn't talking about your fingers gripping the poles. I'm talking about the straps contacting your hands.
If you have confirmation of arthritis, what will you do about it?
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Venchka]

Sounds like ScareBear is on to something.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chris_Cates]

So, your arthritis. Since it was confirmed by imaging, am I to assume it is osteoarthritis instead of RA and/or PA?

I suffer from RA/PA and it has eaten away my flexor tendon in my left thumb. It is now a useless appendage.

That said, I NEVER use my pole straps. NEVER. I ski, ski tour and hike. I consider falling with straps on to be a serious safety hazard, both downhill skiing and hiking in terrain. I don't use poles outside of fairly serious terrain.

I know I lack an empathy gene, or two. So, when I say that if I, without a functioning left thumb and arthritis in both hands, wrists, elbows, shoulders, etc...can carry my poles and NEVER use straps, I am pretty sure you can too.

There are options. Wrist braces, with and without rigid supports. Thumb braces. Pre-curved gloves. Custom orthotic gloves.

Finally, do like I had to do when I still tried to be competitive at golf...get oversized orthotic grips. Well, since they don't make them for hiking poles, you will have to try it yourself. Closed-cell foam for insulating water pipes and cloth tape would be a good place to start experimenting....you will need a sharp razor knife or box cutter...

Good luck. There is an old thread on this board that is many pages long on proper strap technique v. no straps.

YMMV. HYOH.

Yep, osteoarthritis of the joint at the base of the thumb and little finger of each hand. The thing is that I like, correction, LOVE using the straps on my trekking poles. It's the greatest thing since something else really great. If I weren't going to use the straps I'd probably just go back to wearing knee braces and skip the poles all together.


I wasn't talking about your fingers gripping the poles. I'm talking about the straps contacting your hands.
If you have confirmation of arthritis, what will you do about it?
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There isn't anything I can do about my arthritis. There's no joint replacement for fingers so that's out. There are injections I could get in my wrist but from what I've been able to discover about it it's not that effective and needs to be repeated often. My doctor prescribed an NSAID but I've found otc Aleve works better. NSAIDS will eventually take out my liver so I try not to take it too much. Heat soothes the pain, and best of all, exercise helps the pain a great deal. That's why my complaint is about numbness instead of pain, the hiking itself seems to be a pain reliever.

As for the numbness, I've seen improvement from the padded straps on the B/D poles, so adding more padding will probably suffice. Since I prefer the Leki handles and I've been unable to find similar handles with padded straps adding padding to the Leki straps seems to be my best bet.

[ScareBear]

Just remember, you aren't cross-country skiing or ski touring. You use hiking poles for balance, not as a propulsion aid. Especially if you are using the straps as a propulsion aid. You can gain all the traction your poles need through your hands. Your straps should be to keep you from losing your poles, not to help you pull yourself uphill.

If your poles have shock absorbers, you can tell if you are using them incorrectly if you keep hitting the bump-stops. Remember, if you put too much weight on a hiking pole, it is gonna bend(if metal) of break(if fibre) and you are likely gonna fall on the bitter end, since your weight is leaning into the pole it's where you are going after the pole breaks. Good luck with that....

[lesliedgray]

Yep, osteoarthritis of the joint at the base of the thumb and little finger of each hand. The thing is that I like, correction, LOVE using the straps on my trekking poles. It's the greatest thing since something else really great. If I weren't going to use the straps I'd probably just go back to wearing knee braces and skip the poles all together.



There isn't anything I can do about my arthritis. There's no joint replacement for fingers so that's out. There are injections I could get in my wrist but from what I've been able to discover about it it's not that effective and needs to be repeated often. My doctor prescribed an NSAID but I've found otc Aleve works better. NSAIDS will eventually take out my liver so I try not to take it too much. Heat soothes the pain, and best of all, exercise helps the pain a great deal. That's why my complaint is about numbness instead of pain, the hiking itself seems to be a pain reliever.

As for the numbness, I've seen improvement from the padded straps on the B/D poles, so adding more padding will probably suffice. Since I prefer the Leki handles and I've been unable to find similar handles with padded straps adding padding to the Leki straps seems to be my best bet.

OTC Aleve IS an NSAID... of which Naproxin Sodium is an ingredient, which is where your relief comes in. It can be hard on your liver AND your stomach if taken regularly.. i agree with Venchaka that you speak to your doctor about a prescribed med that you can take on a regular basis and leave the Aleve for break-through pain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Odd Man Out]

I started with BD Alpine Ergo Corks. Luxurious straps. All the bells and whistles. But very heavy. Then went to Fizen Compact. Minimalist, but lightweight. I decided I like the light weight. Originally planned to ditch the straps as I had read that going no-strap had advantages (I think it was a blog post by Anderw Skurka). So I hiked one day without the straps and the next day with the straps and on the third day, I decided I liked using the straps much better. I don't have arthritis, but do have problems with hands swelling. Poles really help with this as they keep the hands elevated, moving, and gripping (the pole).

[Chris_Cates]

OTC Aleve IS an NSAID... of which Naproxin Sodium is an ingredient, which is where your relief comes in. It can be hard on your liver AND your stomach if taken regularly.. i agree with Venchaka that you speak to your doctor about a prescribed med that you can take on a regular basis and leave the Aleve for break-through pain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, I know Aleve is an NSAID. I didn't say it well but I meant that Aleve worked better than the prescription NSAID I got from my doctor. And I don't really want to add another prescription med to my list of meds, I'm working hard to reduce that list. I don't want to deal with steroids, I don't want to have lube injections, I just want to make reasonable accommodations to make myself more comfortable. Thus the search for more comfortable trekking poles.


I started with BD Alpine Ergo Corks. Luxurious straps. All the bells and whistles. But very heavy. Then went to Fizen Compact. Minimalist, but lightweight. I decided I like the light weight. Originally planned to ditch the straps as I had read that going no-strap had advantages (I think it was a blog post by Anderw Skurka). So I hiked one day without the straps and the next day with the straps and on the third day, I decided I liked using the straps much better. I don't have arthritis, but do have problems with hands swelling. Poles really help with this as they keep the hands elevated, moving, and gripping (the pole).

I'm with you, I've tried it without the straps and much prefer it with the straps. And the straps on the ergo corks look like the same straps I have on the trail shock pros. I think a little more cushion would be better, but they're already much better than the very thin straps on the Lekis.

It's all probably moot now anyway. I think I've carried this far enough to know that I'm not going to find that optimum (for me) mix of Leki style grip with padded straps so I'm not even looking any more. I didn't get a shot at my favorite trail yesterday so I did a short 4 mile hike on a closer trail. It's almost entirely flat so not that great a hike but I found out two things: consciously flexing my fingers while I hike does keep my hands from going numb, and I spend far more time gripping my poles than I thought I did.

[lesliedgray]

There are rub on creams that may help.. one that i can think of is called Real Time Pain Relief... this works pretty good.. there are other, similar ones also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chris_Cates]

There are rub on creams that may help.. one that i can think of is called Real Time Pain Relief... this works pretty good.. there are other, similar ones also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I appreciate that you're trying to help but I'm good on the pain.

[scrabbler]

Have you talked with a physical therapist about this issue?

[Chris_Cates]

Have you talked with a physical therapist about this issue?

Nope. Never used a physical therapist. I'm planning to ask my doctor about it at my next regular appointment.

[ScareBear]

Have you talked with a physical therapist about this issue?

Ummm...about that thought....osteoarthritis doesn't work that way. At least, not in the base of the fingers/thumb. In your knee, yes to a degree. There you focus on improving your quad strength to help take the load better. In your shoulder for sure, but that is a range of motion issue. OP's issue is due to mechanical wear and tear or repeated minor injuries(lineman's hands). You see it mostly with former athletes, especially football(American) players. Baseball catchers too. Carpenters and roofers too. No treatment and therapy isn't really called for. The injections into the joints....yikes...more pain than help I think. It's mostly a pain management issue. Rheumatoid Arthritis/Psoriatic Arthritis are autoimmune diseases. There, the joint damage is caused by inflammation to the joints, the key being joints. Rarely do you see an individual with multiple distant osteos at the same time, like a knee, shoulder, hip, thumb and toe. In RA/PA, its often MOST of the major joints being affected. Or at least, multiple joints. All at once. It sucks. Give me osteo in one or two joints any day of the week. Just sayin...

Think of osteo as self-inflicted due to wear and tear and/or injuries and RA/PA as an actual entire body illness due to your autoimmune system attacking your own body for giggles...big difference...

Your joint replacements that are non-injury related are almost always osteoarthritis. You've worn out the cartilage, or injured it, and now the joint is compromised. After too long of bone-on-bone, you can't stand the pain and are willing to part with your original components for titanium ones...

[Lyle]

PacerPoles - been using them for many years, work fine for tents/tarps. More comfortable than ANY other grips.

[cmoulder]

Some (many?) downhill skiers are now using strapless poles (https://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/product/scott-strapless-s-ski-pole) that support the heel of the hand.

I use GG grips on my 3-season poles without straps and don't miss them at all... in fact, much prefer strapless.

Winter (for snowshoeing) I use straps but use them only to suspend my wrists. Using them in the "standard" manner while wearing gloves reduces blood flow and makes my hands cold.