View Full Version : walnut mtn. clearcut
i just read a disturbing journal account by icecrmman concerning a big and potentially illegal clearcut along the trail around the walnut mtn lt-anybody know anything about this?
he might be the 1st thru posting in 06 on tjournals. he put up a pix or 2.
i'm gonna have to get up there asap and check it out.
i've been through there a few times in recent years-good, big woods growing up roundabout.
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=123685
check out the journal entry here as well as his pictures, don't know much else, but would like to know more.
the hiker who posted this goes by 'papa bear'...my oops!
Driving down to Hot Springs yesterday I made the comment that I really never noticed those huge CLEARCUTS before. When I got to the outfitter I spoke with Papa Bears' friend and hiking buddy Bear. I saw dozens of pictures and the clearcuts go right across the trail. There are huge piles of wood that butt the trail too. It is beyond belief. The Walnut Mt. shelter is a stones throw and easily seen from the barren soil. This is no select cut, the mountain has been raped. It makes you sick to look at it. How can this happen?
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This is no select cut, the mountain has been raped. It makes you sick to look at it. How can this happen?
Don't fret Bush has it covered, it's the Healthy Forest Initiative!
Oh, it crossed a National Scenic Trail, the AT, the Granddaddy of them all? Well, I'm sure there's a good reason.
that's right, all you folks who voted for bush. this is what happens. there are consequences. to run the national forest service, bush appointed a timber-industry lobbyist, mark rey, who never saw a tree he didn't want to cut down. In 1997, Rey was quoted by Sunset magazine as saying that clear-cut logging, while "not aesthetically uplifting" is "compatible with rain forest ecology," and he called clear-cutting "relatively comparable" to windstorms.
Rain Man
02-06-2006, 16:58
i just read a disturbing journal account by icecrmman concerning a big and potentially illegal clearcut along the trail around the walnut mtn lt-anybody know anything about this?.
That cutting was there at Thanksgiving when my wife and I hiked through the area. I have pics, for what it's worth. I thought maybe they were trying to creat a new bald.
Rain:sunMan
.
Tha Wookie
02-06-2006, 17:58
Driving down to Hot Springs yesterday I made the comment that I really never noticed those huge CLEARCUTS before. When I got to the outfitter I spoke with Papa Bears' friend and hiking buddy Bear. I saw dozens of pictures and the clearcuts go right across the trail. There are huge piles of wood that butt the trail too. It is beyond belief. The Walnut Mt. shelter is a stones throw and easily seen from the barren soil. This is no select cut, the mountain has been raped. It makes you sick to look at it. How can this happen?
That's saddening.
Indeed, we should expect more of the same with the current idiots in charge.
That's the same type of thing that made me get political, after I saw it on the PCT.
Makes me sick.
Tha Wookie
02-06-2006, 18:02
I just looked at his pictures.... terrible!
So he mentions the water source gone/polluted.Is this source along the AT?
Jack Tarlin
02-06-2006, 18:08
Until we know more about the cutting in question (i.e who authorized it, is it situated on public or private land, etc.) is it too much to ask that we stick to the subject at hand and NOT degenerate into yet another anti-Bush political tantrum?
For all we know, perhaps the Trail corridor is very narrow here, and that the clear-cutting, tho ugly and regrettable, might be perfectly legal use of privately-owned land; i.e., national politics has nothing to do with it.
Perhaps Nean or Sly or someone who lives nearby can get more details on this; I bet Dan or Wayne at Bluff Mtn. Outfitters might know something about it.
But until we know more of the specific facts, can we perhaps refrain from promulgating the four hundredth anti-administration thread?
Almost There
02-06-2006, 18:27
With the way private concerns are cutting down trees in the Atlanta Metro area...I gotta agree with Jack, let's wait and see if we can find out...who exactly cut down the trees. I'm not happy with the Bush Administration's stance on the environment, but I won't lay blame on them until it's confirmed that they are in fact to blame. Regardless, whoever did it should be ashamed of themselves, I hope it was worth the money they plan on making!
With the way private concerns are cutting down trees in the Atlanta Metro area...I gotta agree with Jack, let's wait and see if we can find out...who exactly cut down the trees. I'm not happy with the Bush Administration's stance on the environment, but I won't lay blame on them until it's confirmed that they are in fact to blame. Regardless, whoever did it should be ashamed of themselves, I hope it was worth the money they plan on making!I agree with you and Jack 100% that we ought to see if theis was done legally or not, but I see it backwards from the way you two do.
I see the finger-pointing is legit IF the logging was legal.
If someone broke the law and went up there and clearcut, then the administation is certainly not to blame.
BUT, if the clear cut was legal, THEN the lawmakers, who made such a thing legal, are to blame.
I don't think who cut the trees down is relevant. the quesion is: Was it legal?
Skidsteer
02-06-2006, 18:54
Driving down to Hot Springs yesterday I made the comment that I really never noticed those huge CLEARCUTS before. When I got to the outfitter I spoke with Papa Bears' friend and hiking buddy Bear. I saw dozens of pictures and the clearcuts go right across the trail. There are huge piles of wood that butt the trail too. It is beyond belief. The Walnut Mt. shelter is a stones throw and easily seen from the barren soil. This is no select cut, the mountain has been raped. It makes you sick to look at it. How can this happen?
Do you have a rough idea how many acres we're talking about, Nean?
gargamel
02-06-2006, 19:19
Theres a site from the CMC (http://www.carolinamtnclub.com/enews/enews%20archive/060104-E-Maintnews.htm)who mentions this clearcut.
Monday Crew work - 12/27/05 (Tuesday)
We again were out on Tuesday. Through
the winter we will plan trips on either day
depending on the weather.
Location - AT at Lemon Gap to Walnut Mountain Shelter
Work done:
Item 446 - tree removal with hand saw and every strong back we had.
Several small trees, branches, and Rhodos removed from trail.
Observations:
Condition of trail not determined because it was covered with
4 to 6 inches of snow. The entire woods was a winter wonderland.
Several big areas up there have been clear cut.
Trail from shelter to spring may not be obvious but snow
covered made it impossible to check.
We climbed Max Patch. There may be an issue at the top as
far as blazing at a turn in the trail at the top of Max Patch and
lack of posts to guide hikers in foggy weather.
There's an e-mail address and a phone number at the bottom. Maybe they know a little more about.
Chef2000
02-06-2006, 19:30
Unfortunately not even the AT is safe from the legal cutting of trees. Here in Mass just after county road in October Mountain State Forest many norway Spruce were removed at direction of the Forest management. These trees are non native, the reason for their removal.
one tenth of the AT goes right thru the cut area.
I wonder if they are clearing invasive species or bringing back a bald to grass lands? It seems that the brush would be burned if we had enough snow to burn safely.
here's a reply on the same subject from another site.
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 229
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: "Historical" clearing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hiked up that way over the weekend. Bluff Mt Oufitters shuttled us. We got to talking about it Saturday. Apparently the clearing was done between Thanksgiving and X-mas. It was done for "historical" purposes. (To restore an area to a bald??) I was told none of the logs were harvested for commercial purposes, they were just piled up. Nobody said anything about the shelter being unuasble. We hiked that section just last year.
icemanat95
02-07-2006, 11:10
Removal of invasive species is an increasing trend in wildlife and habitat management. They tend to unbalance local ecosystems and disrupt local habitats which can, in turn, displace local wildlife. Norway Spruce is just one of many invasive tree species. There are also a variety of maples, mostly ornamentals planted in suburban and urban yards and gardens.
People still plant a lot of aggressive invasive species as well. Purple loosetrife is an aggressive spreading plant species with lovely ornamental purple flowers, but it is spreading out of people's gardens into swamps and marshes and wetlands, displacing native cat-tails and grasses that provide food and habitat for native species. Japanese bamboo is an ornamental bamboo that is incredibly difficult to kill and spreads like wildfire.
Almost There
02-07-2006, 12:33
I agree with you and Jack 100% that we ought to see if theis was done legally or not, but I see it backwards from the way you two do.
Actually Frosty I think we see 100% eye to eye on this. It would be a travesty either way...although i might feel different if this is simply the first stage to restoring it to historical appearance.
Tim Rich
02-07-2006, 12:34
Unfortunately not even the AT is safe from the legal cutting of trees. Here in Mass just after county road in October Mountain State Forest many norway Spruce were removed at direction of the Forest management. These trees are non native, the reason for their removal.
one tenth of the AT goes right thru the cut area.
I believe this to be the case regarding Walnut Mountain as well, encouraging native hardwood development over the existing white pine plantations.
I talked with Howard McDonald who is our club (Carolina Mountain Club)
AT Supervisor about this thread regarding the Walnut Mtn area. This is a legal restoration program. I quote Howard "The work going on there is all part of the Cherokee National Forest program to restore and improve the Wolf Creek area and the archeological remains of the 19th and 20th century upland community of Wasp. An extensive proposal was issued April 30,2002,describing the long list of goals for this project. It included a map showing the specific areas where work would be done that could impact the Appalachian Trail". Per Howard further questions were answered by the Cherokee NF, Howard sent in his comments on the proposal on 5/7/2002 and the ATC sent their comments in on 5/17/02. On 7/2/2002 a revised map was sent by NF showing a major reduction in the proposed work areas near the AT. On July 10, 2003 a tour was held to view and discuss all portions of the proposal and to reach agreement on what would be done.
The agreement was that the area north of the AT and the spring would be opened to return it to old apple orchard. Brush and trees would be cleared on both sides of the AT, south of the shelter, return it to old pasture and and improve the habitat for the Golden Winged Warbler. The old apple orchard at Kale Gap would be restored but a 300 ft tree barrier would be left to protect the AT from potential trespass from the nearby multi-use trail.
The work is still in progress and it will be reviewed, on site, this Spring by Carolina Mountain Club, ATC, and Cherokee NF personnel.
I hope this answers questions that were raised on the thread. This is an ongoing restoration program.
Happy Trails,
Chip ;)
Thanks for the update Chip. A similar restoral is planned for along the Benton macKaye Trail in the Chattahoochee NF. That project relates to the Golden Winged Warbler too.
Actually Frosty I think we see 100% eye to eye on this. It would be a travesty either way...although i might feel different if this is simply the first stage to restoring it to historical appearance.Yeah, me too. I guess to go from woodland to grassy bald, there will be intermediate years of mud.
What frosts me (no pun intended, honest) is clear-cut logging. And it's former cousing, strip mining.
In another thread we are all getting exciting about trekking poles making 1/8 inch holes alongside the trail. Kind of pales in comparison to damage caused by loggers, bulldozers, skidders, etc
Skidsteer
02-07-2006, 22:41
I talked with Howard McDonald who is our club (Carolina Mountain Club)
AT Supervisor about this thread regarding the Walnut Mtn area. This is a legal restoration program. I quote Howard "The work going on there is all part of the Cherokee National Forest program to restore and improve the Wolf Creek area and the archeological remains of the 19th and 20th century upland community of Wasp. An extensive proposal was issued April 30,2002,describing the long list of goals for this project. It included a map showing the specific areas where work would be done that could impact the Appalachian Trail". Per Howard further questions were answered by the Cherokee NF, Howard sent in his comments on the proposal on 5/7/2002 and the ATC sent their comments in on 5/17/02. On 7/2/2002 a revised map was sent by NF showing a major reduction in the proposed work areas near the AT. On July 10, 2003 a tour was held to view and discuss all portions of the proposal and to reach agreement on what would be done.
The agreement was that the area north of the AT and the spring would be opened to return it to old apple orchard. Brush and trees would be cleared on both sides of the AT, south of the shelter, return it to old pasture and and improve the habitat for the Golden Winged Warbler. The old apple orchard at Kale Gap would be restored but a 300 ft tree barrier would be left to protect the AT from potential trespass from the nearby multi-use trail.
The work is still in progress and it will be reviewed, on site, this Spring by Carolina Mountain Club, ATC, and Cherokee NF personnel.
I hope this answers questions that were raised on the thread. This is an ongoing restoration program.
Happy Trails,
Chip ;)
Uhh...er..Ok, I'll start this ball.
I'm sorry, George W., that we all thought you were Lucifer. Please forgive me. And next time get your press secretary to tell us about s!!t like this ahead of time. After all, what were we supposed to think? Just a little bit of advance information and all this could've been avoided! It's all your fault!Straighten up and fly right, G.W.! :D
Rain Man
02-07-2006, 23:24
I just posted a photo from November 25, 2006, on the AT looking north, just before the Walnut Mountain summit. It shows stumps to the left of the trail, and trees piled to the right of the trail (all over the actual summit) covering the stumps there. This is just south of the Walnut Mtn Shelter. I'd guess the clear-cut area here covers several acres.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=9972&c=518
Off the AT to the left, behind the shelter a few hundred yards, is a large number of acres clear-cut, with the cut trees piled up in rows.
Rain:sunMan
.
Oh, the clear cut is an effort to improve the area with an apple orchard return it to old pasture and and improve the habitat for the Right Winged Warbler!
Just as I thought... some people will believe anything!
Jack Tarlin
02-07-2006, 23:46
I know this may come as something of a shock, Sly, but has it occured to you that maybe, just once, there's something going on the world that bothers you......that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the President or his administration?
Why not for once get some facts before spouting nonsense, OK?
Jack, I know this may come as a shock to you but, so far the Dubya's track record has been dubious at best. Sorry if my faith in him and the FS he appointed is lacking.
I'm still not convinced the clear cut is for the best.
Jack Tarlin
02-08-2006, 00:03
I'm still not convinced you either posess---or have attempted to seek out----the facts on this matter.
Until you do, you might want to back-pedal a bit. If and when this is revealed as having nothing to do the President, you're going to look pretty silly.
But maybe you're used to this.
Bush isn't in bed with foresters and loggers? That would be news!
Jack Tarlin
02-08-2006, 00:29
Hey, Sly, if you've got that much of a beef with forestry, logging, or the paper industry, try wiping your behind on a plastic bag tomorrow morning and then come back and tell us how much you enjoyed the experience.
Honestly, you're a broken record sometimes.
Ever read a book or a newspaper, Sly? Even once? Ever print something on your computer or send someone a postcard? Ever receive a maildrop made outta cardboard? Or sign a register notebook? With a pencil, maybe?
Well, golly gee, did you remember to thank loggers, foresters, and the paper-mill people, Sly, who made all of these conveniences possible?
No, of course you didn't. You'll villify these people while you use their products every day of your life. A bit parasitical, no?
Tell me something, tho. If Bush is, as you say, in the sack with these folks, but you frequently take part in the use of their products, does this mean that you, too, are involved in an unseemly relationship with the President? A threesome as it were?
What on earth would your friends say, Sly? For shame!!
LOL... Talk about broken records. Calm down Jack.
I believe there's a time and place for everything and clear cutting across a National Scenic Trail isn't one of them.
Tha Wookie
02-08-2006, 01:03
So let me get this straight-
They clear cut the trail, harvested and sold the logs, left it in shambles, detroyed acres of nesting habitat, impacted the AT hiking experience instead of choosing another site, and made a nice chunk of change in the process -for habitat and "upland community" restoration?
Why didn't they mow down a cell phone tower on one of the many previously raped mountain tops for habitat?
Just because it had been clearcut in the 19th century and turned into a apple orchard or "upland community" (which one is it?) does that warrant a "restoration" from the natural state which probably existed for the thousands of previous centuries?
Just because someone says it was "legal" doesn't mean squat. Jack is Beaming about the fact that Bush wasn't caught with sawdust on his pants, but the fact remains that his oil/logging presidency has made more and more of these projects "legal" through his so-called "Healthy Forest Innitiative". It's the same bill that made it not only legal, but highly profitable through goverment tax breaks for loggers to take old growth to compensate for their big-hearted clearcuts of the scrawny 3rd and 4th generation forests they have left us.
I understand that the Forest Service has a duty to protect endangered and threatened species, even at the cost of our asthetic enjoyment, but while they contract one clearing for habitat/upland community (which one?) restoration, they contact another to clear the way for yet another cell phone tower.
This is the game folks: Our forests, wilderness, and trails are being picked off one by one, tree by tree, excuse by excuse. How much are we willing to sacrifice for a natural environment? I see a positive side in this: As I and mony others on this site warned before the elections (not just presidential), we will have the logging impacts usually reserved for the far-off areas people hardly visit (like section of the PCT, Tongass NF, the woods over yonder behind your house) brought out in the open for the others to see. You think this is something? Just wait.
It doesn't take much to convince me not to support the clearing of mountain tops and murder of birds by funding the cell phone industry. Of course, we could take Jack's advice and wipe our rears with Walmart bags. Better yet, we could follow our great leader, George W. Bush, and just use the Constitution. And why not? It was drafted on hemp!
The following is a small article on this issue. Funny, Nobody mentioned road development.
p.s. Wookie:Great post
Sorry here is the link:http://www.southernenvironment.org/newsroom/publications/newsletter_spring05.pdf
Sorry again, a little tired. It's on page 3. Okay no more posts :(
To those who would judge let me say that if it were not for the ATC and the trail clubs along the path who maintain this trail there would be NO trail !!!! The ATC and CMC made comments on the proposal and it was then revised with a major reduction in the proposed work area from the NF.
There is still work to be done.
If you want to make a valid point write to your US Congress Rep or US Senator and let them know how you feel about the "Road to Nowhere" which the Gov wants to build thru the Smokies southern side OR the proposed I-3 highway from Knoxville to Savanah Ga. If these roads are built there will be alot of trails that will suffer along with the woodlands, native animals and plants that will be lost. We need your support !!!
Many Thanks,
Chip
To those who would judge let me say that if it were not for the ATC and the trail clubs along the path who maintain this trail there would be NO trail !!!!
Chip, I don't think anyone is arguing that point. I realize how the ATC and the maintaining clubs hands get tied by political will.
If you want to make a valid point write to your US Congress Rep or US Senator and let them know how you feel about the "Road to Nowhere" which the Gov wants to build thru the Smokies southern side...
I have the same Rep and Senators you have and from past concerns it's not likely they're going to listen.
Jack Tarlin
02-08-2006, 18:09
Nice rant, Wook.
Have you bothered to contact anyone in an authoritative position to get all the facts about this?
Or are you just running your mouth and shooting from the hip again with your nine thousandth screeching political bitch session?
Gee, it's not too hard to figure out.
Gotta run; I'm do out back for a few hours of wood-cutting.
Not to worry, Wook, it's recycled wood, cut from old oak pallets.
I'm sure you're relieved to hear it.
Chip, I don't think anyone is arguing that point. I realize how the ATC and the maintaining clubs hands get tied by political will.
I have the same Rep and Senators you have and from past concerns it's not likely they're going to listen.
Hello Sly,
I understand your opinion. I too at times feel the same way about the political process. I also believe that if enough people raise their voice and create "overwhelming" pressure in regards to an issue our leaders must listen and represent the will of the people. Are you a member of the Carolina Mountain Club ? If not I extend an invitation to you to check us out. Please see our web site www.carolinamtnclub.org (http://www.carolinamtnclub.org). Not only do we lead hikes every weekend and Wednesday we also maintain 92 miles of the AT and have a large section of the MTS along with working on other trails in the National Forest in this area. We have started a new Conservation Committee within our club which guides our club in taking positions and action in regards to such issues as the " Road to Nowhere" and the I-3 project. Hope you look up our web site and hope you can join us !!!:)
Many Thanks,
Chip
Are you a member of the Carolina Mountain Club ? If not I extend an invitation to you to check us out.
Thanks, I've check it out before but for some reason I wasn't able to fulfill the obligations to join. Since then I think they've changed. I did buy the CMC MST profile book and have hiked nearly all of it with a small section left near Beech Gap. Great detail.
Right now I have a section of MST I help maintain from Woodlawn to Bald Knob with Gnatcatcher for the FMST, but I'll look into also helping with the CMC. Thanks for the invite.
I'm forwarding a message, below, on behalf of Morgan Sommerville, regional director for ATC's southern office.
Also, Howard McDonald, A.T. Supervisor of the Carolina Mountain Club, notes that the photos posted on a link atTrailJournals.com purporting to show the watershed and spring were misidentified. He says they are taken from the Walnut Mountain Trail looking northeast toward the hill with the old apple orchard. The spring is off camera to the right and the watershed is from the hill due east of the shelter, not this valley.
Laurie Potteiger
ATC Information Services Manager
Walnut Mtn. Open Area Restoration Project
Hi, to all who have expressed concern about this project. Wet weather this winter has prevented the contractor from cleaning the area up, but that will occur sometime this spring.
For those of you that have hiked much of the A.T. in NC and TN, have you enjoyed the experience and views at Silers Bald and Cheoah Bald in the Nanatahala National Forest? How about the views from Max Patch, Lick Rock, Street Gap, Big Bald, Beauty Spot, the Roan Highlands, the Elk River, Cross Mountain and the Berry Fields in the Pisgah and Cherokee NF’s? Most of these superb spots along the A.T. are the result of restoration, just like Walnut Mtn. Without this type work, there would be a continuous canopy of trees along the A.T. in the south, obscuring the views and providing a rather monotonous experience. As a thru-hiker myself I have a great appreciation for the scenic variety provided by open areas along the A.T.
All of the areas noted above, and more, are what the Appalachian Trail Conservancy terms “open areas”. ATC, A.T. clubs and the USFS and NPS jointly manage and maintain the grassy balds, fields, meadows, pastures and vistas along the A.T. Management considerations include hiker experience, resource protection, agency policies, ecological sensitivity and historic and current use patterns. Many of these areas are inhabited by very rare plant and animal species which would not survive in tree covered areas. Many provide extremely valuable wildlife habitat, and of course many are just plain beautiful, providing those “Sound of Music” type moments that make an A.T. hike memorable. In NC and TN, our partnership spends at least $35,000 annually to maintain these areas, and new ones such as Walnut Mtn. and Snowbird are created through alternate funding sources when such sources are identified.
The A.T. is managed and maintained by volunteers. ATC’s staff facilitates volunteer management and act as resource management consultants to the club volunteers. Decisions are made by those who show up. The A.T. and ATC are blessed with dedicated volunteers who both show-up and step-up to the task of managing and maintaining the A.T. We would love to have all of you concerned hikers actually help with A.T. management and maintenance, and not just complain about it. We would love for all of you concerned hikers to take the time to find out how the A.T. is managed, what the policies of the ATC, our local A.T. clubs and agency partners are pertaining to the A.T. Then, if you don’t like them, join us and persuade us to change them. We are not only open to innovation, it is essential to the ongoing protection of the A.T. And if you are not willing to do that, or in addition to helping manage and maintain the A.T., ATC would love to have your financial support to fund our many programs. Funding for the open areas program currently depends largely on agency budgets. Those are decreasing rapidly as the federal deficit rises. Your contributions would help protect the A.T. from the fluctuations of this unpredictable funding source.
So we welcome your financial support and your help. If you would like to volunteer to help manage and maintain the A.T. in NC and TN, PLEASE give our office a call and we will figure out how to put you to work! ATC and the clubs coordinate a vast array of projects that improve and protect the A.T. Bottom line, this is a LOT of fun. (828-254-3708 or
[email protected])
One other note. The A.T. exists mainly because of our volunteers. However, it also could not exist without either our agency partners or the ATC. The A.T. cooperative management system is internationally famous because of the many successes it has produced. The USFS is a strong supporter of the A.T. They have helped create, manage and protect the A.T. since 1925. They have strong guidelines for protection of the A.T., developed in cooperation with the ATC and NPS, to which they do an excellent job of adhering. Concerning the A.T., they deserve your praise, not your insults.
Also, please note the quotes from Howard McDonald, one of the A.T.’s stalwart volunteers, below. They provide the specific background on the Walnut Mtn. project. Howard McDonald, Carolina Mountain Club AT Supervisor - "The work going on there (Walnut Mtn.) is all part of the Cherokee National Forest program to restore and improve the Wolf Creek area and the archeological remains of the 19th and 20th century upland community of Wasp. An extensive proposal was issued April 30,2002,describing the long list of goals for this project. It included a map showing the specific areas where work would be done that could impact the Appalachian Trail". "The agreement was that the area north of the AT and the spring would be opened to return it to old apple orchard. Brush and trees would be cleared on both sides of the AT, south of the shelter, return it to old pasture and and improve the habitat for the Golden Winged Warbler. The old apple orchard at Kale Gap would be restored but a 300 ft tree barrier would be left to protect the AT from potential trespass from the nearby multi-use trail. The work is still in progress and it will be reviewed, on site, this Spring by Carolina Mountain Club, ATC, and Cherokee NF personnel."
We look forward to your help and support!
Morgan Sommerville, ATC Regional Director for GA, NC & TN
icemanat95
02-09-2006, 13:32
I can hear it already,
"It's a conspiracy, it's a conspiracy! They've gotten to Morgan. They must have sent him to Guantanamo to torture him or brainwash him into compliance. Or maybe they sent him to Bulgaria or Poland. I thought I saw him in a background picture of the cells at Abu Ghraib."
Take some Motrin for that kneejerk pain.
I can hear it already,
"It's a conspiracy, it's a conspiracy! They've gotten to Morgan. They must have sent him to Guantanamo to torture him or brainwash him into compliance. Or maybe they sent him to Bulgaria or Poland. I thought I saw him in a background picture of the cells at Abu Ghraib."
Take some Motrin for that kneejerk pain.So you support this statement of Margans:
For those of you that have hiked much of the A.T. in NC and TN, have you enjoyed the experience and views at Silers Bald and Cheoah Bald in the Nanatahala National Forest? How about the views from Max Patch, Lick Rock, Street Gap, Big Bald, Beauty Spot, the Roan Highlands, the Elk River, Cross Mountain and the Berry Fields in the Pisgah and Cherokee NF’s? Most of these superb spots along the A.T. are the result of restoration, just like Walnut Mtn. Without this type work, there would be a continuous canopy of trees along the A.T. in the south, obscuring the views and providing a rather monotonous experience. As a thru-hiker myself I have a great appreciation for the scenic variety provided by open areas along the A.T.
Walking is the woods is monotonous? The AT experience is enhanced by clearcutting the tops of mountains to remove the "continuous canopy of trees?
I thought Walnut Mtn was a one-time deal.
How much of the trail do they intend to enhance for us? Will they enhance just the mountain tops for us, or clearcut all the ridges to REALLY enhance our appreciation of the AT, and eliminate the monotony of walking in the woods?
Almost There
02-09-2006, 13:50
There we go we have an answer, and I'll take him(Morgan) at his word.
Almost There
02-09-2006, 13:53
Sorry Frosty, but I am not keen on constantly walking through green canopy. Besides none of these forests we walk through are old growth anyways. Folks the time to bitch is when the proposal comes out, not after they have done it.
Ever read a book or a newspaper, Sly? Even once? Ever print something on your computer or send someone a postcard? Ever receive a maildrop made outta cardboard? Or sign a register notebook? With a pencil, maybe?
Well, golly gee, did you remember to thank loggers, foresters, and the paper-mill people, Sly, who made all of these conveniences possible?
jack, your setting up a bunch of false choices here. we don't have to give up books, newspapers or toilet paper to stop clearcutting in a national forest on a national scenic trail. you are like a sheep kowtowing to the republican party line. baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
If there was any mention of the Walnut Mtn. Open Area Restoration Project on the ATC website I must have missed it. I would think a project of this magnitude would have been someplace on their site. A CMC and Google search also shows nothing. The only info I've been able to find, other than this thread, was a link on the Cherokee NF page saying 135 acres had been cleared with the logs taken to Robinsville.
I'm all for ridgeline walking and open views, which is one of the reasons I prefer to hike out West. If the NFS, the ATC and the CMC want to create, or recreate, open balds more power to them. If they want help and not "just complaints" from hikers it may be best to inform them first instead of having to respond to concerns on a private hiking website.
I'm also curious if this project was brought to public attention in 2002 when it was drafted. I was deeply invovled in planning a CDT hike that year and can't recall any mention.
Besides none of these forests we walk through are old growth anyways.
Well, that's because they keep cutting them down!
domnokmis
02-12-2006, 14:15
Our newest bald:
http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=130876
http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=130869
Walnut Mt. is about 6m from Max Patch. What would we do if there wasn't a bald every few miles? They saved Bluff Mt. because the logging would be in the viewshed of the AT. Clearcutting for views (did they waste the lumber or not) or because it was logged before isn't a good reason in my opinion. Couldn't the $$$$$ spent here be better spent elsewhere, in this day and age? There is much I don't understand, and perhaps someday hikers will think the clearcut is pretty. They should build a road up there too, so others can enjoy the scenery!
They saved Bluff Mt. because the logging would be in the viewshed of the AT.
Well, they've saved Bluff Mountain so far, but I'm sure it would make ideal breeding grounds for the Right Winged Warbler!
domnokmis
02-18-2006, 19:18
Folks the time to bitch is when the proposal comes out, not after they have done it.People did appeal the proposal. The appeals evidently will be heard after the logging is done.
http://www.southernenvironment.org/cases/forest_plans/casepage.htm
Anyway, I see nothing wrong with complaining about anything at any time. If something is wrong, then it is wrong. That's what I say. The fact that we was unaware the ATC was about to approve clearcutting portions of the trail does not mean we have to keep quiet while they go about it. Complain now. Complain loudly. It is the only way to make it stop. Read the link. They are not finished logging the AT.
It says on their link that the SELC was successful in stopping the proposed Walnut Mt. clearcut. Sounds like they update their site about as often as Golite.:rolleyes: