PDA

View Full Version : Titanium/Aluminum Simmering Pepsi Stove!



RagingHampster
02-04-2003, 13:05
I just made it. Simmers like a Trangia, and lighter than air (well not that light). The stand is made from Titanium stock courtesy of Thru-Hiker.com, and a single 1/8" rivet. The stove is a standard design pepsi stove, but held together with JB Weld rather than tape and interlocking slits that can leak. The simmer cap is a cutout from a reynolds cupcake pan, which is formed onto an un-opened soda can. Everything works great, and nests perfectly into my 1L MSR Titanium pot without folding/bending/etc. Stove, stand, and windscreen come in at under 2oz. Note: This stove is aesthetically unpleasing. I did a horrible job applying the JB Weld, and it can be applied so that you won't even see it (if your good). The stand will also feature some holes, I was just lazy last night. This should drop another .15-.25oz if your one who cuts their toothbrush in half (stupid by the way).

Evolution of a backpacking hampster...

1. MSR Whisperlite Int'l, Fuel bottle, Stand, Repair Kit, & Bag - 2lb.
2. Westwind Trangia Stove, Stand, Screen, & Bottle - 8oz.
3. Titanium Stand, Trangia, Screen, & Bottle - 6.5oz.
4. Titanium Stand, Pepsi Stove, Screen, & Bottle - 2.75oz.

Pretty soon I'll float away. My 3.5lb Therm-A-Rest is my Ballast (:().

A picture is in the gallery.

Perkolady
02-04-2003, 16:17
RagingHampster-

Thats GREAT!

My pack contents are slowly "evolving/morphing" in a similar way.

It all makes a difference on the back too- esp if yours is like mine-
<ain't what it used to be> lol

It's really a good feeling making or altering your own gear.

Thanks for sharing your joy- it helps inspire and motivate the rest of us!
smiling for you.....
Perkolady:)

Tenderfoot
02-08-2003, 17:46
Just checked out your stove picture... got any extra stands for sale/give?!

RagingHampster
02-09-2003, 07:53
I can give you the directions to make one if you would like. You need some tools though, or clever ways to substitute them. You'll need 2 sheets of stock from Thru-Hiker.com (1 if your real good at snipping). If your interested I'll post the pattern for the stand. It takes about 1/2hr to make one.

Tools you need:
- Tin Snips
- Hammer
- Propane Torch ($20 at walmart, butane lighter may work)
- Chisel
- Power Drill & 3/16" Bit
- Rivet Gun & 1/8" Rivet
- Table vice, and pair of vice grips

The stand is meant for holding a pot with 0.5-1.5qts of water. It's not meant for holding steel stockpots and 3 gallons of fish stew. Remember, titanium is lighter than steel, and stronger than aluminum. It's not unbendable/unbreakable.

Dirtyoldman
02-09-2003, 08:38
nitpick... Ti is not really lighter, since it is stronger a thinner piece can be used thus saving weight

RagingHampster
02-09-2003, 09:00
Ti is physically lighter than steel, but heavier (and stronger) than aluminum. When applied towards structures which require strength, less can be used, and thus (in it's application) it becomes lighter than the same piece if constructed with steel or aluminum. It also depends on the alloy percent. Ti is often alloyed with aluminum, which depending on the percentage can affect these properties. I'd also like to mention that Ti is extremely heat resistant, and takes a very high heat to melt. Burning alcohol (ethyl, propyl, or methyl) does not produce sufficient heat to do this. Of course thickness becomes a factor here as well.

Hope this makes sense.

poison_ivy
02-09-2003, 10:19
Raging hamster -- I'd love to know the pattern for your pot stand. I just recently made a pepsi can stove too -- but the one thing I can't seem to make correctly is a pot stand. I'm thought about using three tent stakes -- but I'm not totally OK with sticking my shiny little tent stakes in the fire yet.

-- Ivy

RagingHampster
02-09-2003, 10:41
Ok, I'll make up the pattern again tonight ('cause I lost the last one), and post it tomorrow. Basically trace the pattern on the metal 4 times, snip it out & cut the hard parts to snip with the chisel, put the piece in a table vice up to line you'll be bending at, heat it up so it won't snap, bend it over with the hammer, secure it to a block of wood & drill your holes, and rivet the 4 pieces together. Final trimming may be required to fit your stove & simmer cap. A slightly different size hole may be required to accommodate your specific rivet. I'll post that pattern tomorrow.

Dirtyoldman
02-09-2003, 11:18
poison heres a good one....

wrap some roof flashing around your pot and mark the joint,
add about 2 1/2 inches and mark the length. For the height determine the pot height and add 1/2 inch. Mine usually works out to about a 24 x 3 inch peice.
or
wrap the flashing around the pot and leave the desired airgap. add one inch for the lap seam to what ever length comes out.

cut.

around the bottom punch a bunch of air holes with a paper hole punch. leave a 1/4 inch or so margin on the bottom edge. be generous and feel free to include a design.

from each end measure 1/2 inch in and fold over. the two folds should be in opposite directions to form a lap seam.

locate the middle along the top and mark. divide length of long side by three and using that, mark each side of the middle. this should divide the long side into three sections. from each mark cut in 1/2 inch and fold metal out of the way to form 3 v shaped notches.

hooking the two ends together should now make a ring that is slightly larger then your pot by about 1/2 inch.

using three tent pegs or three stiff peices of wire cut from a coat hanger make a triangle in the center.

sgt rock makes a simalar one from oven liners but the ones i tried came out a bit to flimsy for my taste.

the pot stand/windscreen can be unhooked and stored on the inside of your cook pot

I would post a pic but I dont have a camera....

RagingHampster
02-09-2003, 11:52
The peg system still does not hold the stove off the ground. I like stands that hold the stove off the ground because they let you use them on countertops indoors (I use mine to cook at work), and they also help to prevent fires. In addition, setting a sodacan stove in the snow durring winter does not help it to continue burning, often putting it out!

Dirtyoldman
02-09-2003, 12:06
Im sorry hampster, I sometimes forget that us PA types are blessed with a large abundance of rocks to cook on. I think sgt rock uses an extra piece of oven liner to cook on....

RagingHampster
02-09-2003, 12:36
Lol, yeah, rocks are kinda sparse up here ;).

I personally like having my stand hold both my pot and stove. Besides, my boss gets pissed when I pound the stakes through the counter to hold my pot :p.

It also maintains the optimum distance between stove and pot. You could counter that you pound the stakes in deeper, but in the end, I find that I like to pull the stove & stand out of my pot, pour in the alcohol, and light it up. It weighs the same or less than 3 stakes anyways, and makes winter use and indoor use much easier.

Dirtyoldman
02-10-2003, 05:26
oh wait you mis-understand the wires/pegs go sideways, the three v shaped cuts at the top hold them, sorry about the confusion. wish I had a picture, it would explain a lot better then my writing.

http://hikinghq.net/sgt_stove/wind_screen.html

sgt rocks is close, i just added the three cuts at the top and three wires to hold the pot. I also changed over to the flashing because the foil he uses is too weak to support the pot.
This gets rid of the separate pot support.

Sparky!
02-10-2003, 10:42
This weekend I decided to make a pepsi can stove. So I broke out my dremmel, my drill and all my other tools. I was very surprised at how easy they were to make. I was on a roll and I made 5 this weekend.. ( I was having too much fun to quit). So I tested it out and I was also surpised at how well they worked and boiled water.

I will be heading out on on the 22 of Feb to do a little hiking over the weekend. I know it will be cold and I heard that the stoves may not work too well.

1) Any advice on how to adapt the stove to better perfom in the cold? Or am I worrying about nothing?

2) Anyone have an idea about how to make a simmering ring?

Thanks

Sparky! :))

Sparky!
02-10-2003, 10:48
I was looking at Sgt Rock's page and found out about the simmer ring. But after reading, the instruction I got from the "Tin Can Stove Man" and PCT they did not use insulation. Why would I need insulation?

RagingHampster
02-10-2003, 12:11
I have some tips for you sparky...

Put your alcohol in your coat for a couple minutes before pouring it into the stove. And make sure your stove is held up and out of the snow.

The simmer ring for a pepsican stove can be tricky. I needed something slim that would fit between the fins of my stand. What I've found is that molding foil to the exact shape of the can works, but you must allow the gas to come out of the holes and then up through a slot over the center resivoir. If you press it down all the way, the vaporized alcohol forces its way down the sides of the can and ignites, possibly burning up your simmercap, and not simmering at all. So if you use a reynolds cupcake pan described in my post above (and pictured in the gallery), make sure you dont press it down completely when using it. Also be careful in placing it on, as the flame is plenty hot enough to burn up the aluminum used in foil. I'd make an extra to keep with you. They weigh about 1/20 of an ounce.

SGT Rock
02-10-2003, 12:20
Insulation is not needed, but it improves performance. By improve, I mean that the stove warms up faster reducing the amount of fuel used in priming. This is not as important in fair weather, but grows in importance as the weather gets colder.

RagingHampster
02-10-2003, 12:41
Sorry I didnt post a stand pattern today, I wa sbusy at work last night. I'll try and get one up tomorrow...

Sparky!
02-10-2003, 12:52
So what you all are saying is that I should be fine with the alcohol stove with temps between 20* - 30*?

I think I might conduct an experiment tonight. I think I will put my fuel in the snow bank to get it cold and then see how it fairs. I will let you all know how it goes.

This is the first time I will be taking an alcohol stove out and since I am not 100% sure about it's performance in the field.. I just want a warm ( no pun intended ) fuzzy. I am impressed how well it performs in a controled environment...

Last night I put two ounces of fuel into my stove and it went burned for about 18 minutes before it went out.. is that a good burn time?

Sparky!

RagingHampster
02-10-2003, 13:00
If you suspend the stove above the snow via a stand, it will work at -100*F. So long as the fuel is warm when placed in the stove (keep it in your jacket for a few minutes), when lit it will maintain it's warmth, and not go out. If you plunge the base into the snow, it chills the fuel, and could possibly put the flame out depending on the stove design. Alcohol stoves maintain fuel warmth, unlike propane/butane stoves.

Sparky!
02-10-2003, 13:08
Thanks Raging Hampster! I think this will cut 1.5 lbs from my pack weight.

I hear a lot of people talk about "heet". I am using denatured alcohol, does "heet" burn hotter?

SGT Rock
02-10-2003, 13:18
I did a control experiment once wher I chilled alcohol to 26* and had the brasslite stove in the freezer with it, then I used one ounce of alcohol to melt 17 ounces (weight) of ice and heat it to 212*. So yes, it can work. I do reccomend placing something that gives some insulation between the stove and the ground and if possible - warning the fuel by keeping it in a pocket until you use it. Given these percautions you shouldn't see much change in performance. My reccomendation is to also add about 6ml (one soda cap full) over and above normal fuel in case it takes a little extra to prime it.

RagingHampster
02-10-2003, 13:20
The three main types of alcohol fuels are Methenol, Ethenol, and Propanol.

Propanol burns with soot. Ethenol burns clean and is safe (It's also 200proof liquor). Methenol burns clean, but is said to be dangerous if constantly contacting the skin. I'm told that your liver transforms it into formaldehyde, which is obviously a toxin.

Denatured Alcohol is 90% Ethenol & 10% Methenol. Methenol is added so it can't be safely drunk. Burns nice. Comes in 32oz cans which sucks.

There are two types of heet. Propanol HEET and Methenol HEET. I use a generic brand of Methenol Heet.

Rubbing alcohol I believe is 70% Propanol & 30% Water.

Even though methenol is said to be unsafe, I use it. It comes in 12oz bottles, and costs $0.50 a bottle at walmart (under the brand name "DryGas").

Technically, Everclear would be your best option, but at $22 a liter, it will be an awfully expensive trip!

Sparky!
02-10-2003, 13:38
Some Great gouge... Thanks Sgt Rock and Raginghampster. I was going to use Sgt. Rocks foil on the ground to reflect the heat. Last night I did the control burn and in 5 minutes I had it to a rolling boil with no reflective screens... so I am going to see tonight if that decreases the time... since Sgt Rock already did the cold experiment... thanks! ;)

Raging Hampster, you used Walmart brand? I saw it on sale last night... I will have to stock up!

Sparky!

SGT Rock
02-10-2003, 13:53
Just to clarify, there isn't an industry standard for denatured alcohol. SLX has a 5% methynol/95% ethynol mix, while Zip Strip brand uses a 16% methynol/83% ethynol mix. This is according to their MSDS sheets.

2Questions
02-10-2003, 17:40
Sgt. Rock Sir,
I made a Turbo V-8 from your instructions and love it. Using a piece of flashing for a windscreen, a Ti pot, and wire mesh for stand. I've been going thru a lot of alcohol getting acclimated to it...see what it will do. Outside temp is 18 deg and it seems to light equally well without a prime around the burner. I light the burner directly. What is your experience with this. Am I just getting lucky? Thanks, and I appreciate your input in these posts.

SGT Rock
02-10-2003, 20:52
My experience is you will need about 18 ml of fuel (3 soda caps full) which will get you between 200* - 212* depending on fuel and air temp. My personal position is you will hardly ever need to go over 190 degrees (BTW the same temp a coffee pot warms to) for cooking. In really bad conditions you may need to add an extra 6ml (one soda cap full) extra if the water and the fuel are very cold (below 32* F).

The tricks to using alcohol in cold weather:

1. Warm the fuel - keep it in a pocket prior to use.

2. Use liquid, not solid water. By this I mean either get fresh flowing water instead of trying to thaw out a solid bowl of ice. You can dip fresh from a stream, or sleep with a water bottle at night.

3. Place an insulator under the stove. Not just a reflector, but something to insulate like a folded bandana or something.

4. Use a windscreen and bottom reflector.

That may sound hard if you haven't done it before, but it ain't.

2Questions
02-10-2003, 20:57
Thanks for the info. My wife thinks I'm a little strange spending so much time on the back porch but.....its the cheap thrills that make life adventurous!

SGT Rock
02-10-2003, 21:04
Hooaa!

And everything you make makes it that much better. Customazation rules.

If Monster Garage ever wants to make a car that turns into a backpacking stove... :cool:

Sparky!
02-15-2003, 22:39
Well, I completed my mission of making an alcohol stove.

SO..... I made a pepsi can stove, I used the design from Tin Can Stove Man ( He is an AT-L Super Hero and legend ) with a couple of my own twists.. I drilled small holes to allow the fuel to get into the chamber.. not big at all... as a matter of fact I want to say it is the smallest drill bit I had. Instead of the slot in the ever important fuel chamer to hold it together I used the aluminum tape... A LOT EASIER and FASTER!

The pot stand I used SGT Rock's dimentions but I chose different material. My wire mesh is a little more flexable and FREE since I had it around my house.

The wind screen design is taken straight from SGT Rocks site. The only difference is that my Pot needed a 23" aluminum pan to make the wind screen and I could only find an 18"... Getting frustrated at Wal-Mart... It hit me to use the aluminum tape I used to seal the stoves to tape two pieces together...... Worked like a charm. The only modification I did to Sgt. Rocks design was not to use the TABS but to tape my screen in a circle... It holds like a champ!

The reflective bottom screen was taken from Sgt Rock site

THe nd simmer ring was also take from Sgt Rock's site. I made a modification to mine. I cut more away on the sides but I left two pieces... One is about 1/3" long which is the handle and a nother piece which is 1/4" for gripping the stove. The handle would be at 6 o'clock and the tab I placed at 3 o'clock. It is easy to put on and take off and controls the flame beautifully. But becareful of the handle... it gets ~HOT~!

The total weight ( stove, wind screen, pot stand, simmer ring and reflective screen) is 3.3 ounces! If you add in one bottle of HEET ( 12 fluid ounces ) at 11.5 ounces you tip the scales at 14.8 ounces. This all fits into my 1.5 liter pot with room for my spices.
This will save me over a pound in pack weight!

The real test was that I could bring two cups of cold water to a RAPID rolling boil in 3 minutes and 24 seconds. At first I thought this might have been a fluke, so I tried it again with different stove ( same design, I made 5... that is how easy they are to make) and it came to a RAPID rolling boil in 3 minutes and 26 seconds. PRETTY GOOD if I say so myself. Now this was in my basement with no wind and about 68 degree. But still impressive to me.

So how much did this cost me?
Soda cans = FREE!
Aluminum Tape = $2.39 ( Walmart)
Aluminum oven pan = .98 ( Walmart)
Bottle of HEET = .79 ( Walmart)
Metal Mesh = FREE (I had some around the house )
Total cost for 5 stoves ( and still making MORE) , a wind screen
and fuel: $4.16


:confused: My only question is that I bought the BLUE HEET bottle. It left the bottom of my pots a little sooty, I was buring denatured Alcohol before and did not have the soot. I made sure I bought the one that had Methenol... should I have gotten the RED HEET instead?

Over all I am VERY Happy with this kick @$$ little stove. I will let you all know how she preforms in the field when I head out here. May not be next weekend as I had hoped.. family obligations... but I will be out by Mid March for sure!

Thanks to all who helped me... I surely could not have done this alone... A special thanks to Sgt. Rock's Site and to the AT-L Super Hero.. Tin Can Stove Man!

Sparky!

Tenderfoot
02-16-2003, 00:19
I was advised and found to be totally true that the YELLOW bottle of HEET leaves no residue. (Also .79 at "Wall Fart")

SGT Rock
02-16-2003, 07:40
I've never seen a blue bottle of HEET. I don't know what that is.

RagingHampster
02-16-2003, 07:46
HEET is just the brand name. Up here in the northeast we have a company called DryGas which comes in a blue bottle and red bottle. Blue is Methanol & red is Isopropanol. They may sell DryGas down south too, but I'm not sure how far down.

It's also cheaper than HEET. $0.50 rather than $0.79.

Tenderfoot
02-16-2003, 10:15
DryGas questionfor Raginghampster

"DryGas which comes in a blue bottle and red bottle. Blue is Methanol & red is Isopropanol." Which do you recomend???

SGT Rock
02-16-2003, 10:42
do not use anything containing isopro, it soots and clogs stuff like crazy.

RagingHampster
02-16-2003, 10:47
Ditto on what rock said.

- Methanol burns clean and hot. Try not to get it on your skin.
- Isopropanol burns sooty and I think cooler.

SGT Rock
02-16-2003, 10:53
My personal reccomendation is ethynol. Since pure ethynol isn't cheap, get denatured which is usually about 85% - 95% pure with the rest being a small amount of methynol. I belive this makes it less harmfull and I know gives it more BTUs per ounce than pure methynol (yellow HEET).

Maybe you could brew your own:D

RagingHampster
02-16-2003, 11:06
Hey rock, does ethanol contain more BTUs than Methanol? How much per gram?

I'd use denatured alcohol, but it comes in 32oz containers, and it's easier & cheaper to buy two 12oz bottles of methanol "DryGas", which then get dumped into a 20oz soda bottle (you can actually fit more than 20oz, but leave a little air).

Sparky!
02-16-2003, 13:21
I forgot to mention my deep thanks to Raginghampster for his insight and guidance on fuel. If it were not for him, I would still be going to Lowes and getting the 32 ounce cans of denatured alcohol. Sorry I missed you, buddy.. You were a great help too!

To clarify... The blue HEET bottle is a "YELLOW" bottle with a blue label. They also had the Yellow bottle with a RED label. The Red was Isopropanol... I guess I took good notes because I got the right one! Yipeeeeeee I looked for the "Dry Gas" but they did not have any there, thinking I could get away with some that is cheaper. But for .79 for a bottle I figured I am worth it ;) I know every time I go to "Wall Fart" ( tenderfoot you are too funny :D ) I will look for it either Heet on sale or the dry gas.

Sparky!

Sparky!
02-16-2003, 13:53
I did a little research on line about the BTU and stove fuel and this is what I found:


Methanol 8,570 BTU (Methyl alcohol; HEET)

Ethanol (100%) 11,531 BTU (Ethyl alcohol; denatured alcohol)

My reference is:

http://www.kzpg.com/Backpacking/Stove/Stove_notes.htm

This site has a lot of great information.


Hope this helps!

Sparky!

Sparky!
02-16-2003, 14:08
He also has a FANTASTIC calculation worksheet to use to determine an estimate fuel and weight of stove to use as a comparrison.

http://www.kzpg.com/Backpacking/Stove/Stoves.htm

Sparky!

RagingHampster
02-16-2003, 14:30
Thanks for the info sparky. Tempting to buy the denatured alcohol (which is mostly ethanol with a little methanol mixed in making it poisonous & hence "denatured").

I think I'm still going to stick with the convenient blue bottles though :)