PDA

View Full Version : curious about speed?



CassSarahSilvius
09-29-2017, 19:33
Just curious about the average miles per hour of the general hiker. My wife and I(with a two year old on shoulders) did a short 14 mile day hike on the A.T. in Front Royal. We were each carrying about 15-20 lb pack and completed in about 5 hours. Including lunch break and mild snake bite. My wife accidentally stepped on a garter snake that was under leaves and she insists on wearing hiking sandals. Anyway, just out of curiosity, what's the average speed for everyone else?

Dogwood
09-29-2017, 19:42
2-2.5 MPH. With a 2 yr old on your shoulders and 15-20 lb pack maintaining the rate which you did you did very well. Nice.

Dogwood
09-29-2017, 19:45
Might want to purchase a child carrier that also allows carrying an incorporated to the child carrier load or separate small pack. A 2 yr old shifting around on your shoulders during a 14 miler at your pace is a recipe for possible problems.

Slo-go'en
09-29-2017, 19:59
YMMV. All kinds of things factor in how fast you can complete a mile. It can be as little as 1/2 MPH to as much as 3+ MPH depending on the terrain, how much your carrying, how tired you are, if you ate recently, is it raining, is it cool and crisp or hot and humid and so on.

For example, I GPS recorded one of my recent hikes in Maine, part of the Grafton Notch loop. It was interesting to find we had gained 3,348 feet, lost 5,058 feet in 13.2 miles, which took us 11 hours which includes most break times - kept forgetting to pause the recording. The Average speed was 1.2 MPH and the peak speed was 4.1 MPH. I must have been falling down hill when the 4 MPH speed happened!

In any event, a 2-2.5 MPH average is a pretty typical pace for much of the AT.

CassSarahSilvius
09-29-2017, 20:21
As you can see, he knows his way around the trail. We actually considered a bag designed for a kid but didn't know if it was worth it for the little while we would need it. Good point though, I'm sure my vertebrae aren't thanking me.

AllDownhillFromHere
09-29-2017, 20:27
There's a difference in your hiking speed and overland speed. I know for myself that on inclines < 500' per mile, my hiking speed is about 2.5-2.75 mph. My daily speed comes down to about 2.1 mph, factoring in breaks.

Slo-go'en
09-29-2017, 20:53
As you can see, he knows his way around the trail. We actually considered a bag designed for a kid but didn't know if it was worth it for the little while we would need it. Good point though, I'm sure my vertebrae aren't thanking me.

Carrying a child on your shoulders for any length of time on a trail can be dangerous. What happens if you trip and fall? Your lucky nothing happened. He looks a little big for a child carrier pack. The kind of in-between age where he's too big and heavy to carry, but still too small to walk long distances himself. Best to match the hikes to what he can do on his own.

CassSarahSilvius
09-29-2017, 21:39
he walks where he can and I carry him as needed and adjust speed accordingly. our safety is always priority.

Sarcasm the elf
09-29-2017, 21:44
One of the first things I learned the hard way when I got back into multi day backpacking is that I couldn't use my day hiking speed/milage to estimate backpacking speed.

When dayhiking I can easily move a 3 miles an hour, when backpacking that speed quickly drops. Day one is always fairly fast since I'm fresh, however it's days 2, 3, 4 where I really start to slow down as my body adjusts to hiking all day and sleeping in a different place and on a different schedule.

When I'm planning for a week long trip, I usually plan for about 1.5 miles an hour. My moving speed is much faster, but I know I'm going to be exhausted, and if the weather permits then I'm probably taking a number of long enjoyable breaks throughout the day including a mid-day siesta in hot weather.

saltysack
09-29-2017, 22:48
Including lunch, filtering and breaks I almost always stay around a 2 mph average...a typical 10-12 hour day yields 20-25 miles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rafe
09-29-2017, 23:16
A study was done of the AT class of 1995. Average speed was 15 miles per day, over 10 hours of walking. That's over the whole length of the trail, and includes zero and Nero days. Clearly faster in some regions, slower in others.

Me, I know I'm good for about one mile per hour, with a full pack, in the White Mountains. I could sustain 1.5 mph in the mid-atlantic states, e.g.. PA and MD.

moldy
09-30-2017, 07:08
Dude, You and your family were cooking. 14 miles in about 5 hours is fast for anybody, including young experienced thru-hikers with trail legs. So, to answer your question you were way faster than normal on the AT. How long did it take to recover?

cmoulder
09-30-2017, 07:40
Dude, You and your family were cooking. 14 miles in about 5 hours is fast for anybody, including young experienced thru-hikers with trail legs. So, to answer your question you were way faster than normal on the AT. How long did it take to recover?

I know my own average speed is much lower than that, and I don't take long breaks. Did a day hike with a friend last Sunday and we were moving right along because it was more of a training hike for him (he's getting ready for Denali) and we did 11.4 miles in 3:42 with 2000 ft vertical, which is right at 3mph, and we were practically jogging in places. Harriman SP, NY, Ramapo Equestrian Center to Reeves Meadow via Pine Meadow trail.

Hard to imagine somebody with a young child going nearly that fast, but hey, there are some amazing people out there! And with a clear treadway and little elevation change it becomes a lot easier.

Traveler
09-30-2017, 07:49
Hiking pace and speed will change with load, hydration, terrain, weather, health (mental, emotional, and physical) condition, and diet. Any or all of these can contribute to having a blockbuster mileage day or not making more than a few. Rather than trying to maintain a set hiking pace now, I let the terrain decide what the pace should be and conform to it along the way. Forcing a faster pace may get one to their destination a little ahead of others, but for me it can take a toll on the body with sore muscles, chafes, joint stress, and the higher potential of slips and falls.

Getting on the trail an hour earlier, ending an hour later does the trick for me without the body rebelling and leaves me ready for the next day.

Bronk
09-30-2017, 10:47
Depends on how much is climbing, how much is flat and how much is descending. I'm usually somewhere between 1.5 and 3mph.

rafe
09-30-2017, 11:00
So let's be clear, when we put a number on "speed of walking" do we include breaks or not?

On a typical summer hiking day I might walk anywhere from 10-12 hours, but 20-30% of that time is spent on breaks -- a relatively long one for lunch, and several short breaks along the way.

cmoulder
09-30-2017, 11:08
When backpacking, IMO avg should include breaks because at the end of the day it's about how many miles covered and how long it took.

When my friends and I were doing GLT (about the same time you and Slo-Go'en were!) we did only about 8-9 mi/day and stopped often for photos and spent lots of time on the mountain tops just soaking in the views and enjoying the perfect weather and leisurely snack. We spent nearly an hour at the observation tower on Old Speck. I'd estimate our average at about 1.2 mph.

Spirit Walker
09-30-2017, 12:10
On the AT I was very consistent at 2 mph. My daily average was only 12 mpd over the course of the trail, including days off. For the CDT it was 16, for the PCT 19. I was faster on the PCT because the trail was so much easier in terms of grade and treadway, so usually hiked about 2.5 mph. We also hiked dawn to dusk more often than on the AT. Day hiking I usually hiked 2.5- 3 mph, unless it was flat.

Usually at the beginning of the hiking season, my average of 2 mph did not include breaks. By the end of the summer, it did.

CassSarahSilvius
09-30-2017, 15:25
Not a whole lot of recovery, blisters ( especially my wife, she has given up on the idea of hiking sandals after this hike) sore legs, the usual lot. We are used to the Tuscarora and the terrain of this section of the A.T. was pretty mild. Some hills but nothing like the Tuscarora. I think the better maintenance of the A.T. leads to much higher hiking speed for us.

HooKooDooKu
10-01-2017, 00:17
The old rule of thumb I learned decades ago was that a hiker can expect to be able to do 2mph, and then add an hour for every 1,000' in elevation climb.

I've found that to be a good starting point... and over the years, as I've gotten more experience and gear has gotten lighter, I found I can do better than that...

But when I think about it, I did the JMT last year with a pretty heavy pack (50lbs because I was prepared for cold weather and did the 2nd half with no further resupply).

To hike the JMT plus to the Whitney trail head, you must hike about 220 miles. At 2mph, that's 110 hours. The cumulative elevation gain is about 47,000'. So that adds another 47 hours. Toss in a few more hours because some of the down hill is pretty steep and will slow you down and you get an estimate of 160 hours to hike the JMT.

During my trip, as best as I can recall, I typically started hiking about 7am and hiked until about noon. I would rest about an hour, and then hike until 5 or 6 o'clock. So I averaged 10 hours of hiking per day (perhaps a bit less).

So the rough estimate to hike the JMT is 16 days. I hiked it in 17 days.

rickb
10-01-2017, 06:00
It was interesting to find we had gained 3,348 feet, lost 5,058 feet in 13.2 miles, which took us 11 hours which includes most break times
Why the 1710 foot net elvation loss?

Loop trip, right?

rafe
10-01-2017, 06:11
Why the 1710 foot net elvation loss?

Loop trip, right?
Slo's numbers are just for day three, from Baldpate shelter to Stewart campsite.

cmoulder
10-01-2017, 08:06
GLT has a bit of uppity-downity to it. :)

40456

rafe
10-01-2017, 08:13
GLT has a bit of uppity-downity to it. :)

40456
Exactly. Slo's numbers correspond to the distance between the second and the fourth markers on your profile. The total vertical change for the loop is around 12-13 thousand feet.

jjozgrunt
10-01-2017, 10:17
When I through walk I usually do around 4kms/hr or 2.5 miles/hr when walking. That is after the first few days to get settled and solo. To use my day 21 figures Hot Springs to Lick Log Gap, just under 25 miles. I left at 04.55 and reached there at 18.10 so just over 13 hours. It rained off and on during the day so I didn't stop much probably around 2 hrs, so call it 11 hours of walking. That means it was around 2.3 miles/hr. A lot will depend on the amount of ascent, weather how early in the walk it is, how I feel etc. Coming out of Hiawassee I only did 9.1 miles over 6 hours, probably had something to do with all the beer and pizza the night before, I was feeling a little chunderous.

Tipi Walter
10-01-2017, 10:29
Backpacking Speed (vs dayhiking speed) is dependent on many factors---
** Condition of trail---blowdowns, bramble fields, ruggedness---or perfectly maintained for easy walking. If you stop to cut thru blowdowns your mileage will drastically change.

** Backpacking while sick. In February 2017 I pulled a 19 day trip and got really sick in the middle of it with some type of influenza---think hacking coughs and slow going. It took me 7 hours to go 2 miles on several days because I had to stop and hack my lungs out.

** Pack weight really slows you down. Let's say you're carrying an 80 lb pack for a 21 day trip because you don't want to see a town or resupply---Daily mileage will be low for the first week until the pack lightens. If I can go 4 miles on the first day of a winter trip with an 85 lb pack I feel good about myself.

Bronk
10-01-2017, 11:23
When backpacking, IMO avg should include breaks because at the end of the day it's about how many miles covered and how long it took.

When my friends and I were doing GLT (about the same time you and Slo-Go'en were!) we did only about 8-9 mi/day and stopped often for photos and spent lots of time on the mountain tops just soaking in the views and enjoying the perfect weather and leisurely snack. We spent nearly an hour at the observation tower on Old Speck. I'd estimate our average at about 1.2 mph.Agreed. Sometimes the breaks are needed in order to continue, so they are really part of the total package. So too are sightseeing breaks. If you know there is an observation point or other attraction along a given stretch of trail you need to budget time for that into your hike. Can't tell you how many times I saw somebody pass up some really cool places after a two minute look around because they had to make so many miles per hour or get to the next whatever.

Hollywood44
10-01-2017, 15:39
no way...a thur hiker can average in the 2.2 - 2.7 mph....average joe cut that in half...my mornings are always fast till lunch..then i slow down to enjoy my afternoon.. there is really no need to get to a shelter early...hike too five-six o'clock..eat then sleep...your body will appreciate it both in soreness and the falls you take when your tired

RangerZ
10-01-2017, 17:44
I consistently do 1.7 MPH over hill and dale with a 30 pound pack. I slow down tremendously up and down real hills. It's all a factor of age, fitness, weight skin in and skin out, etc.


I'd like to say that I do 2 - 2.5 - 3 MPH but that would be no pack, on a good day, good trail, downhill with a tailwind.

Suzzz
10-01-2017, 19:04
This thread is really making me feel good about my numbers and giving me a big boost of confidence. I always figured that I was a slow hiker since the friends I usually hike with have always been waaaaaayyyy faster than me. It used to bother me until I just accepted the fact that I was a slow hiker and kept going at my pace. I do this for fun and running or pushing myself to the point of exhaustion doesn't seem like fun to me. I don't care how fast I get there, I just want to get there!

On my section hike in Maine this summer, I had a few moments of discouragement. It seemed to me that EVERYBODY I came across was a lot faster than me and everybody seemed to be able of doing a lot more mileage in a day. Lots of hikers past me on the trail but I never past anyone, making me feel like I was the slowest hiker on the entire AT. Then I started reading this thread and the more I read, the more I saw that all in all, I'm not as slow as I thought I was. Yes, there are a lot of faster hikers out there and there always will be but it looks like I'm pretty average in terms of speed and that makes me feel good! I know it's not a race but it's never fun always being the last one at the finish line!

My average speed was 1.1 mph on my slowest day (big mother of a mountain to climb!) and 2.3 mph on my fastest day. So not too bad when you take into consideration that I left my watch on when I stopped for breaks and lunch. I think I'll go back to my stats and recalculate everything without all the stop times. Something tells me it might put a big smile on my face.

jjozgrunt
10-01-2017, 21:33
I personally wouldn't take too much notice of walking speed unless you wanted to walk with someone. More important is milage covered in a day. I was passed by many young people on the trail, didn't worry me as I was still walking as many if not more miles in a day as I started anywhere from 02.30 - 06.00 am except when coming out of town. A couple of hikers were pissed that I beat them in everyday, but they never saw me pass them. Happens when you sleep till 9am and I was walking at 5am. IMHO if I was walking 3-4 mph I wouldn't be enjoying the walk as I'd be head down bottom up all day. I have read too many comments in Trail Journals over the years of people that regretted walking so quick as they felt they didn't really see the trail and enjoy it. HYOH and all that and just enjoy it.

Traffic Jam
10-01-2017, 21:45
I personally wouldn't take too much notice of walking speed unless you wanted to walk with someone. More important is milage covered in a day. I was passed by many young people on the trail, didn't worry me as I was still walking as many if not more miles in a day as I started anywhere from 02.30 - 06.00 am except when coming out of town. A couple of hikers were pissed that I beat them in everyday, but they never saw me pass them. Happens when you sleep till 9am and I was walking at 5am. IMHO if I was walking 3-4 mph I wouldn't be enjoying the walk as I'd be head down bottom up all day. I have read too many comments in Trail Journals over the years of people that regretted walking so quick as they felt they didn't really see the trail and enjoy it. HYOH and all that and just enjoy it.
Yep. Speed don't matter...put one foot in front of the other and eventually you'll get where you're going.

Traffic Jam
10-01-2017, 21:48
This thread is really making me feel good about my numbers and giving me a big boost of confidence. I always figured that I was a slow hiker since the friends I usually hike with have always been waaaaaayyyy faster than me. It used to bother me until I just accepted the fact that I was a slow hiker and kept going at my pace. I do this for fun and running or pushing myself to the point of exhaustion doesn't seem like fun to me. I don't care how fast I get there, I just want to get there!

On my section hike in Maine this summer, I had a few moments of discouragement. It seemed to me that EVERYBODY I came across was a lot faster than me and everybody seemed to be able of doing a lot more mileage in a day. Lots of hikers past me on the trail but I never past anyone, making me feel like I was the slowest hiker on the entire AT. Then I started reading this thread and the more I read, the more I saw that all in all, I'm not as slow as I thought I was. Yes, there are a lot of faster hikers out there and there always will be but it looks like I'm pretty average in terms of speed and that makes me feel good! I know it's not a race but it's never fun always being the last one at the finish line!

My average speed was 1.1 mph on my slowest day (big mother of a mountain to climb!) and 2.3 mph on my fastest day. So not too bad when you take into consideration that I left my watch on when I stopped for breaks and lunch. I think I'll go back to my stats and recalculate everything without all the stop times. Something tells me it might put a big smile on my face.
Hey, there's nothing wrong with being last to the finish line. I've done it many, many times. :)

Suzzz
10-01-2017, 21:54
I personally wouldn't take too much notice of walking speed unless you wanted to walk with someone. More important is milage covered in a day. I was passed by many young people on the trail, didn't worry me as I was still walking as many if not more miles in a day as I started anywhere from 02.30 - 06.00 am except when coming out of town. A couple of hikers were pissed that I beat them in everyday, but they never saw me pass them. Happens when you sleep till 9am and I was walking at 5am. IMHO if I was walking 3-4 mph I wouldn't be enjoying the walk as I'd be head down bottom up all day. I have read too many comments in Trail Journals over the years of people that regretted walking so quick as they felt they didn't really see the trail and enjoy it. HYOH and all that and just enjoy it.

I agree with you and I never had any intention to try to go faster for exactly the reasons you mention... I want to enjoy the trail and going faster would take away from that. What I meant is that I thought that most hikers were able to do a 3-4 mph average while I could only do a 2-2.5 average. I now see that many other hikers are in the same range that I am so I don't feel so slow anymore.

Suzzz
10-01-2017, 21:56
Hey, there's nothing wrong with being last to the finish line. I've done it many, many times. :)

Agreed but every once in a while it's fun not to be the last one through the gate.

Traffic Jam
10-01-2017, 22:12
Agreed but every once in a while it's fun not to be the last one through the gate.

I know what you mean. And that hatred of being "last" can be a great motivator for self improvement...ask me how I know!
I'm not last anymore but dang, it takes a lot of courage and pride-swallowing to always be in last place.

It's easy to be the best at something. What a motivator to hear the accolades, be the winner, be the fastest. But being the worst...the slowest...and sticking with it? Not being a quitter. That's the real winner. :)

MuddyWaters
10-01-2017, 23:03
Overall, I avg about 2 mph with breaks. 1-1.5 uphill, 2.5-3 downhll.

Ive done 10 miles in 2:50 , slight downhill grade, smooth trail. With even light pack, its really moving to sustain that pace that long walking. At least with my legs at 5' 9". Doesnt happen accidentally.

Only part of speed thats important, is knowing jow many mpd to expect to crank out. Best to err on low side for planning purposes.

rafe
10-01-2017, 23:12
Nothing sucks the joy out of hiking like comparing one's hiking speed to others. Or trying to keep up with others, or wishing they'd keep up with you.

Starchild
10-02-2017, 09:49
Normally 2/hr, on my thru after my trail leg it was 3-4 mph, even pushing a bit past 4 sometimes (town days). One day I averaged almost 4 mph over 36 miles.

MuddyWaters
10-02-2017, 13:11
Nothing sucks the joy out of hiking like comparing one's hiking speed to others. Or trying to keep up with others, or wishing they'd keep up with you.

Except perhaps carrying a 2 yr old on your shoulders.

Which, after 100 yds even is torture, because ive did it.

Making 3 mph on AT while doing it........draw own conclusion.

HooKooDooKu
10-02-2017, 14:32
...I thought that most hikers were able to do a 3-4 mph average...
4 mph is about the fastest that an average adult can walk. Anything much faster and you have to ramp up to a jog or trot.
(If you are walking, you ALWAYS have at least one foot on the ground... but if you are jogging, then at some point, both feet are in the air).

rafe
10-02-2017, 14:53
... I thought that most hikers were able to do a 3-4 mph average while I could only do a 2-2.5 average. I now see that many other hikers are in the same range that I am so I don't feel so slow anymore.

3-4 mph would be for nice sidewalks in suburbia, with no pack, for a breezy morning stroll.

Most of the AT is nothing like that. 3400 vertical feet of elevation change per day, on average, and a surface that is anything but smooth. Carrying 30 lbs. on your back, and subject to crap weather, nutrition, diet, hygiene, sleep, etc.

In distance hiking mode, I'm often passed by bushy-tailed day hikers and weekenders. They can afford a short, intense burst of effort during their 48 hour hiatus from civilization. They'll have a nice meal and hot shower as soon as they get home. Distance hikers have to conserve energy (etc.) for the long haul.

Malto
10-02-2017, 20:30
I agree with you and I never had any intention to try to go faster for exactly the reasons you mention... I want to enjoy the trail and going faster would take away from that. What I meant is that I thought that most hikers were able to do a 3-4 mph average while I could only do a 2-2.5 average. I now see that many other hikers are in the same range that I am so I don't feel so slow anymore.
I am one of the "fastest" hikers out there and I only average 3 mph over the course of the day. And that is with almost no stopping. So no, there are VERY few 3-4 mph hikers out there, not for any distance other than the last few mile into town for food. 2-2.5 mph is likely above average.

Emerson Bigills
10-02-2017, 20:56
For me, just depends on the trail - elevation gain/loss, rocks, roots, rain, climbing or hiking, etc. etc. I have averaged 3 mph and also been below 1.5 mph. Can be frustrating, but the trail will dictate how fast you can go. Some hikers are faster than others, but the trail conditions apply to everyone. You eventually learn to just roll with what the trail provides.

Another Kevin
10-02-2017, 22:24
The old rule of thumb I learned decades ago was that a hiker can expect to be able to do 2mph, and then add an hour for every 1,000' in elevation climb.
I've found that to be a good starting point... and over the years, as I've gotten more experience and gear has gotten lighter, I found I can do better than that...
I'm personally a little slower than guidebook time, or at least I budget that way.
My rough rule of thumb (summer, reasonably good trail, no special challenges) is "30 minutes to the mile, 40 minutes for every thousand feet of elevation change (up OR down)." Then add time for rock scrambling, stream crossing, bushwhacking, mud, snow, whatever special challenges there might be.

So, "it depends."
A really thick bushwhack might take an hour to go 200 yards.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2921/14738136242_c13acef629_z.jpg

And I've had it take me 5-6 hours to go 5 miles in this sort of stuff, with four guys taking turns breaking trail, and a couple of switches back and forth between snowshoes/poles and crampons/ice axes. (Then again, I don't think most people on this site hike in that sort of stuff. Maybe one in ten are that crazy?) At least the wind was still that day. The facemasks and goggles could stay in the packs. Which were way too heavy. Winter gear simply is way too heavy, and in deep winter you can't cut corners.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TadfZXHHbrA/VJnbY410-8I/AAAAAAAABnk/Q84lrdMmutA/s640/jon.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GO02FZO8xkY/VJnjY3zHIeI/AAAAAAAABoA/fT5mLQN2EY8/s640/DSC_3868.JPGhttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oOi7vvpUt0Q/VJnktGwmMDI/AAAAAAAABoY/xYpcKlxPPqI/s640/DSC_3880.JPG

dreamweaver21
10-02-2017, 23:51
AT with a 25ish pound pack is about 2mph for the day for me. If I wake up in the woods and plan to sleep in the woods that night I usually walk 10-12 hours in the day and make 20-24 miles in good weather. Sometimes a bit more and often a bit less. All day average including breaks is 1.8 - 2.1 mph for me. Poor weather and significant elevation changes slow me down even more.

Out west with just a camel pack and no intention of sleeping outside, I could make 3mph pretty easily.

Leo L.
10-03-2017, 05:28
When planning a local mutiday trip, I calculate 4km (2.5 miles) horizontal per hour plus 300m (1000 feet) elevation gain per hour. Then add 1/2hr break every 3 hrs walk.
As most of our local hikes go pretty much steep and high up mountains, the elevation thing is more important than the horizontal travel distance.
When just on a daytrip, I may cut the calculated time to descend into half of the ascent time. Carrying the full multiday pack I'll take the same time up and down.
When there is some scrambling to be done on the mountain (and many times there is) I'd add another half or full hour just to do the scramble.

On my desert hikes the calculation might be a bit similar - but as there are poor paths only, or just pure nature with lots of boulder scrambling, thistle whacking and other unusual obstacles, I do not calculate, but just estimate time and distance, by very closely looking at Google Earth.

Recalc
10-03-2017, 08:05
So let's be clear, when we put a number on "speed of walking" do we include breaks or not?

On a typical summer hiking day I might walk anywhere from 10-12 hours, but 20-30% of that time is spent on breaks -- a relatively long one for lunch, and several short breaks along the way.

Although miles per day including breaks etc is the metric relevant to this discussion and daily planning, moving miles per hour interests me. Just completed the SHT, and would compute how far I could walk in one hour. When I asked myself, "can I make it to campsite X before dark?", this number was used to answer the question.
It was also used as a second opinion in self-assesment. For example, if the distance between two campsites was 2 hours apart and it took me 3 with terrain looking the same, a reassessment was forced. That could be a wakeup call to drink more water or take an extra break.
Moving miles per hour is also my personal GPS. For example, I would mentally calculate the walking time to the next spur trail. If it was 80 minutes and a turn shows itself in 50 minutes, it is treated with suspicion and the maps come out.

jjozgrunt
10-03-2017, 08:42
So let's be clear, when we put a number on "speed of walking" do we include breaks or not?

Personally speed without including breaks is the only value that means anything. Every day can be different, some days I have combat naps some days I don't, or I might have a longer lunch to dry out gear. I start anywhere between 2.30 and 7am except coming out of towns. As stated it allows you to work out your day, will I reach the next shelter and how long, should I fill up here or do I have enough water to reach the next point? Should reach a certain point/feature in about ? hours.

Including breaks just doesn't make sense to me.

RangerZ
10-03-2017, 09:31
My 1.7 MPH planning speed does not include big breaks - lunch, BSing with met hikers, 5 minute pack off breaks that turn into 15/20/30 minute breaks. It does include small breaks for map checks, compulsively recording time/distance, drinks, etc. I figure those are common, the others aren't.

I also do time/distance to next landmark. Nearly drove me crazy on the Laurel Highlands trail with mile markers every mile. "Where is it? Did I miss it? Ah, there it is."

George
10-03-2017, 22:55
I do a pretty consistent 2 mph - when I am moving - the non movement time has no consistency

saltysack
10-04-2017, 07:46
Except perhaps carrying a 2 yr old on your shoulders.

Which, after 100 yds even is torture, because ive did it.

Making 3 mph on AT while doing it........draw own conclusion.

[emoji23]. Agree....I carried my 20lb jack russell out on the CT in July after he trashed his pads....5 miles on top of a frameless pack wasn’t fun! Can’t imagine making 3 mph....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171004/e28b220ea983627a9423892ecc2bbeb8.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CassSarahSilvius
10-04-2017, 07:54
I'll take the 2year old over aluminum frame Alice pack loaded to 75lbs any day... it actually sounds a little UL

cmoulder
10-04-2017, 08:21
I do a pretty consistent 2 mph - when I am moving - the non movement time has no consistency

But the clock is still ticking! :D

When you reach the area you intend to camp for the night you will have covered a certain number of miles that day. Everything that happened after departing the previous night's camp determines the average.

If you want to cover 20 miles (for a food drop, to reach a certain shelter, etc) and also want to spend an hour on a certain mountain top and another hour for lunch and a nap and perhaps two or three 20-minute breaks, that all has got to figure into your planning for the day. Even in high summer you're probably not going to be strolling out of camp at the crack of 10am to pull that off. :)

If one gives these things any thought at all, that falls under the category "planning," even though plans might change during the day.

AllDownhillFromHere
10-04-2017, 08:35
...In distance hiking mode, I'm often passed by bushy-tailed day hikers and weekenders. They can afford a short, intense burst of effort during their 48 hour hiatus from civilization. They'll have a nice meal and hot shower as soon as they get home. Distance hikers have to conserve energy (etc.) for the long haul.

I found the opposite, I usually smoke weekenders, and we used to make a point of waiting until there was an uphill, before breaking out the gorp and passing other people, uphill, while eating it. And this was back when a 40lb pack was light. It always seemed like a combination of being out of shape + having no particular rush to get anywhere, where the LD hiker is in constant miles mode.

Tipi Walter
10-04-2017, 09:37
[emoji23]. Agree....I carried my 20lb jack russell out on the CT in July after he trashed his pads....5 miles on top of a frameless pack wasn’t fun! Can’t imagine making 3 mph....

Good pic. Reminds me of a trip I did when my backpacking dog Shunka got sick and I had to carry him out---a 50 lb dog along with my 65 lb pack---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/Shunka-Has-A-Stroke-Trip-110/i-MXjQZRz/0/c9180e11/L/TRIP%20110%20035-L.jpg


I'm personally a little slower than guidebook time, or at least I budget that way.
My rough rule of thumb (summer, reasonably good trail, no special challenges) is "30 minutes to the mile, 40 minutes for every thousand feet of elevation change (up OR down)." Then add time for rock scrambling, stream crossing, bushwhacking, mud, snow, whatever special challenges there might be.

So, "it depends."
A really thick bushwhack might take an hour to go 200 yards.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2921/14738136242_c13acef629_z.jpg

And I've had it take me 5-6 hours to go 5 miles in this sort of stuff, with four guys taking turns breaking trail, and a couple of switches back and forth between snowshoes/poles and crampons/ice axes. (Then again, I don't think most people on this site hike in that sort of stuff. Maybe one in ten are that crazy?) At least the wind was still that day. The facemasks and goggles could stay in the packs. Which were way too heavy. Winter gear simply is way too heavy, and in deep winter you can't cut corners.


I mentioned this in my earlier post---about negotiating blowdowns and bramble fields and terrible trail. And postholing . . . and snowdowns!!! Snowdowns happen when the green tunnel of the trail collapses on itself due to snow load on the bushes, requiring a belly crawl below the snowdowns, always fun with a 70 lb pack. Mileage will drop significantly, like one mile in 3 hours.

And postholing will really slow you down, most especially going up a steep mountain in 2-3 feet of deep snow . . . . while carrying a full winter pack of 70 lbs etc.

40479
This is an example of a trail somewhat closed with snowdowns. Usually it's much worse.

40480
Another example of a snowdown blocking the trail.

40481
And sometimes the snow is too deep for your dog to get thru with his heavy dog pack, so . . . .

40482
You have to hump his pack along with your own. What fun.

40483
And then there's your usual postholing up a mountain with significant weight on your back.

All these examples show that daily mileage numbers can at times be completely irrelevant---you just try to get from one camp to the next.

Another Kevin
10-04-2017, 11:30
And postholing will really slow you down, most especially going up a steep mountain in 2-3 feet of deep snow . . . . while carrying a full winter pack of 70 lbs etc.


I don't do the long food carries you do. But there are times when 55 lbs is lightweight, even for a weekend.

Where I mostly hike (the State Forest Preserve of New York), postholing isn't lawful. (Seriously- I've known people who've gotten tickets for not having snowshoes.) And it's damned poor trail etiquette. I don't mind if you want to go wallowing in snow off trail... but on a trail, don't leave postholes for me to trip over! I damned near went down a slope headfirst once when I tripped over a posthole on a ledge. Yeah, I could probably have arrested. If I'm moving around in winter, I've always got something pointy in my hands (either poles or ice axe). It was still scary.



40479
This is an example of a trail somewhat closed with snowdowns. Usually it's much worse.


Heh. Challenge for you: find the trail sign in this picture. I promise, it's there! Note the skid marks from the belly crawls of the hikers ahead of me.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/e5LyGVJTWUtjwb3yHFBT0iJmYXBDzM6fCQSH2sJPe5VeUDWWQ_ TA_SoDptJAOlAU4jIN0wiVOI-oFq8=s640
(Click through to embiggen) (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/e5LyGVJTWUtjwb3yHFBT0iJmYXBDzM6fCQSH2sJPe5VeUDWWQ_ TA_SoDptJAOlAU4jIN0wiVOI-oFq8=s1600)

That knee-high sign is overhead in summer - there's about a five- or six-foot snowdrift in there. Most of the rest of that ridge is more exposed, and the wind pushes the snow to pile up under the bigger trees.

And then there are spruce traps. There's nothing like suddenly falling chest-deep into the snow with your snowshoes tangled in tree branches. (These next ones aren't my picthres, but they're good illustrations.) This is what a spruce trap looks like, when you can see it at all:
http://www.adkforum.com/photos/d/1475-1/10-A-spruce-trap-lurks.jpg

And this is what happens when you step in one:

http://www.nhmountainhiking.com/hike/muise/sprucetrap.jpg

Spruce traps are a big reason that I don't hike solo in deep snow. Sometimes you simply can't get out unaided.

Tipi Walter
10-04-2017, 11:43
I've never seen a winter backpacker in the Southeast carrying snowshoes---and so we all just posthole to our heart's content. In fact I've never heard of a winter AT thruhiker starting in Georgia bringing snowshoes. Did Thomas Gathman bring snowshoes on his winter sobo thruhike from Maine?? Yes, in fact he did! But nobody down here brings them. We just hit rough ridgetop patches of deep snow and posthole our lives away. And during major events like the Blizzard of '93 we call for helicopter extraction.

illabelle
10-04-2017, 12:19
Excellent challenge, Kevin! Was not able to find the sign without enlarging the picture. Very well hidden.
Love your word, "embiggen"!



Heh. Challenge for you: find the trail sign in this picture. I promise, it's there! Note the skid marks from the belly crawls of the hikers ahead of me.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/e5LyGVJTWUtjwb3yHFBT0iJmYXBDzM6fCQSH2sJPe5VeUDWWQ_ TA_SoDptJAOlAU4jIN0wiVOI-oFq8=s640
(Click through to embiggen) (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/e5LyGVJTWUtjwb3yHFBT0iJmYXBDzM6fCQSH2sJPe5VeUDWWQ_ TA_SoDptJAOlAU4jIN0wiVOI-oFq8=s1600)

That knee-high sign is overhead in summer - there's about a five- or six-foot snowdrift in there. Most of the rest of that ridge is more exposed, and the wind pushes the snow to pile up under the bigger trees.

Tipi Walter
10-04-2017, 12:22
These are the conditions which caused Flyin Brian Robinson to turn back on his triple crown attempt.

saltysack
10-04-2017, 12:32
Good pic. Reminds me of a trip I did when my backpacking dog Shunka got sick and I had to carry him out---a 50 lb dog along with my 65 lb pack---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/Shunka-Has-A-Stroke-Trip-110/i-MXjQZRz/0/c9180e11/L/TRIP%20110%20035-L.jpg



I mentioned this in my earlier post---about negotiating blowdowns and bramble fields and terrible trail. And postholing . . . and snowdowns!!! Snowdowns happen when the green tunnel of the trail collapses on itself due to snow load on the bushes, requiring a belly crawl below the snowdowns, always fun with a 70 lb pack. Mileage will drop significantly, like one mile in 3 hours.

And postholing will really slow you down, most especially going up a steep mountain in 2-3 feet of deep snow . . . . while carrying a full winter pack of 70 lbs etc.

40479
This is an example of a trail somewhat closed with snowdowns. Usually it's much worse.

40480
Another example of a snowdown blocking the trail.

40481
And sometimes the snow is too deep for your dog to get thru with his heavy dog pack, so . . . .

40482
You have to hump his pack along with your own. What fun.

40483
And then there's your usual postholing up a mountain with significant weight on your back.

All these examples show that daily mileage numbers can at times be completely irrelevant---you just try to get from one camp to the next.

That’s the benefit of a small UL dog! [emoji51].


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Another Kevin
10-04-2017, 12:58
Love your word, "embiggen"!

Oops. Before someone accuses me of plagiarism:


Edna Krabappel: "Embiggens?" I never heard that word before I moved to Springfield.

Ms. Hoover: I don't know why. It's a perfectly cromulent word.


"Lisa the Iconoclast" The Simpsons, season 7, episode 16 (18 February 1996).

rafe
10-04-2017, 12:58
I've never seen a winter backpacker in the Southeast carrying snowshoes---and so we all just posthole to our heart's content. In fact I've never heard of a winter AT thruhiker starting in Georgia bringing snowshoes. Did Thomas Gathman bring snowshoes on his winter sobo thruhike from Maine?? Yes, in fact he did! But nobody down here brings them. We just hit rough ridgetop patches of deep snow and posthole our lives away. And during major events like the Blizzard of '93 we call for helicopter extraction.
Up here in the White Mtns, postholing is considered to be rude and inconsiderate and will earn you a barrage of nasty comments and stink-eye.

In general it is the case that my day hiking pack for winter is nearly as heavy as my summer backpacking kit that I'd take for a 3 or 4 night outing. So much extra stuff to take, and a good portion of it is stuff you hope never to use, e.g.. sleeping pad and bag. Stuff that could be life-and-death if things go sufficiently awry. Not to metion three different types of traction devices, and boots that weigh 2 lbs., each foot.

Another Kevin
10-04-2017, 13:19
Up here in the White Mtns, postholing is considered to be rude and inconsiderate and will earn you a barrage of nasty comments and stink-eye.

In general it is the case that my day hiking pack for winter is nearly as heavy as my summer backpacking kit that I'd take for a 3 or 4 night outing. So much extra stuff to take, and a good portion of it is stuff you hope never to use, e.g.. sleeping pad and bag. Stuff that could be life-and-death if things go sufficiently awry. Not to metion three different types of traction devices, and boots that weigh 2 lbs., each foot.

Yeah, Rafe, I know you and Slo are in that 10% or fewer of the people here that go out in those crazy conditions. ;) (We folks Up North hate giving up hiking for half the year!)

Three types of traction devices - you're talking spikes, snowshoes, crampons? (In which case, also throw in the ski poles and the ice axe.) I think that those five things alone might exceed the pack weight (minus food and water) that I'd take for a summer overnighter. Particularly since you can't use aluminium crampons in the Northeast - our mixed rock and ice just chews them up and spits them out. So you have to tote the weight of steel ones.

One of these years I'll decide either that I'm too old for this, or else that I can afford a pair of mountaineering boots. My Sorels are too damned heavy and awkward, but hardshell mountaineering boots are really the only better alternative.


In any case, we've hijacked the thread.

To the OP - For AT in summer conditions, the guidebook time of 'half an hour per mile, an hour per thousand feet of elevation gained' isn't too far off the mark. Add extra time in NH/ME for rock scrambling. For secondary trails, off-trail hiking, or off-season travel, speeds range from summer speed down to spending an hour to go a couple of hundred yards. Miles per day is more a function of how long you hike, rather than how fast, unless you're someone like Malto or 1azarus.

A large party goes slower.

Ethesis
10-04-2017, 18:45
2-2.5 MPH. With a 2 yr old on your shoulders and 15-20 lb pack maintaining the rate which you did you did very well. Nice.
that was very nice.

jgil
10-07-2017, 19:17
I like to think of it by minutes instead of hours. If I'm focused on hiking and not stopping to look around for the views and such, I will do 1 mile per 15-20min at the longest. But I do tend to run and jog a lot where it looks fun to do so, especially rock scrambling I like going real fast. I am planning and training to thru hike next year at a pace of 30mpd minimum.

Traffic Jam
10-07-2017, 19:29
For me, anything faster than 2.5 mph involves running.

Sovi
10-07-2017, 19:35
I get about 2 mph on flat ground, I'm no speed walker.wont know climbing speed until I actually get in trail shape and see.

pesphoto
10-07-2017, 19:36
typically I'm around 2 - 2.5mph but depends on the terrain and gear, like others say.

Ive tried getting to 3 mph on flat trails and it aint easy nor fun to sustain it for a long time...

JJ505
10-12-2017, 17:39
Funny thing. I was asking the same question and figured it out yesterday. It was 2 mph. My Corgi really slows me down. Not that I'm complaining actually. Would rather go slow and hike with her than go faster and not.

Sarcasm the elf
10-13-2017, 00:43
Oops. Before someone accuses me of plagiarism:

Edna Krabappel: "Embiggens?" I never heard that word before I moved to Springfield.

Ms. Hoover: I don't know why. It's a perfectly cromulent word.


"Lisa the Iconoclast" The Simpsons, season 7, episode 16 (18 February 1996).

That made me smile. I've had had rough night of dealing with my psychotic cats fighting and I really appreciated the laugh before I try to get to sleep.

On a related note: An anti-gun friend once said "I wouldn't want one in my house, but I have to admit they're fun to shoot every once in a while." After tonights antics I'm starting to think that applies to cats as well.

(All pets remain alive and well after the incident, and I've mostly stopped bleeding.)

GaryM
10-20-2017, 08:46
Smooth level ground I hit around 2.5-3mph, sometimes a bit more. Crawling over blood mountain racing to beat the sunset I managed about 1.5mph.
But it all depends just how much looking around I am doing. If that dang sun had been setting slower my average over the mountain would have much reduced.

Time Zone
10-20-2017, 09:38
Anyone ever tried to follow a hike leader doing 3 mph up a 12% grade? I did, last night - but had to raise the white flag after 35 minutes to catch my breath and drink some water.