Damascus Incident

[putts]

Since nobody else has mentioned it yet.

https://streamable.com/xik3r (https://streamable.com/xik3r)

[dudeijuststarted]

...getting my popcorn. buckle in folks.

[Lone Wolf]

coupla drunken, drugged idiots that run a place daddy gave them. they were goin' out of business anyway

[saltysack]

What place is it?


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[CalebJ]

Hey Joe's.
https://www.facebook.com/heyjoestacos/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/248443865570901/permalink/417465295335423/

[gracebowen]

Well if they last that long I wont be staying at hey joes.

[rickb]

coupla drunken, drugged idiots that run a place daddy gave them. they were goin' out of business anyway
Plenty of drunken, drugged idiots that would never consider telling someone to die in Jewish ovens like their ancestors, and that they had better be careful walking around town.

Are the individuals in the video confirmed owners of a business on the AT?

[gracebowen]

Ok make that eat there.

[TNhiker]

Hey Joe's.
https://www.facebook.com/heyjoestacos/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/248443865570901/permalink/417465295335423/






they are not getting very good reviews on their facebook page.....

[Lone Wolf]

Are the individuals in the video confirmed owners of a business on the AT?

yes. i know them well

[Uncle Joe]

Went there a few weeks back. Nothing like this even hinted. Can anyone confirm that's the owners in the video? If true, it's terrible. Given the state of social media, though, I'd like to see it verified.

[Lone Wolf]

i can confirm the 2 scumbags are the owners

[gracebowen]

Well when i called the owner asked me what the #### i wanted then called me a stupid ####

[dudeijuststarted]

let me guess they hate mexicans too, being a taco shop in a town named after an ancient jewish settlement and all.

[dudeijuststarted]

well what did you want you stupid ####?

jk...

[Uncle Joe]

i can confirm the 2 scumbags are the owners

Thanks, LW. Wow!

[rafe]

coupla drunken, drugged idiots that run a place daddy gave them. they were goin' out of business anyway

I think you're being too PC. You left out "anti-semitic."

[John B]

Incredibly horrible. Just stunning to see and hear it. Beyond depressing.

[Time Zone]

Seems like assault charges should be forthcoming.

[SoaknWet]

All my life I've always knew the woods was there to get away from this kind of trash! My grandfather use to say when you went into the woods it was like crawling into God's lap. Sit down, shut up and listen,you will learn!

[chknfngrs]

googled the restaurant name and found a thread “taco joe” from some website and that he was stabbed a ways back... by a waitress... may have happened twice.

[Starchild]

I am very saddened I just can't get the words out. I'm sorry, this is horrible, to use a christian term this is satanic, it is hate, anger, disgusting as the devil itself.

[chknfngrs]

http://m.topix.com/forum/city/damascus-va/TS5KSRT97AV46T5PR/stabbing

Sorry for not citing earlier

[rocketsocks]

Road Trip!

[JPritch]

What happened that led up to this confrontation? I mean, it must take alot for a business owner to come outside and assault a ?customer?. The video only shows one side.

[HooKooDooKu]

So the owners of "Hey Joe's" are willing to spout horrible anti-Semitic crap...

...but what's the "rest of the story"?

In modern society, bigotry doesn't raise to the level of physical violence unless the bigot is provoked.

So I've got to wonder what the camera man did or said before the camera was rolling that provoked this anti-Semitic crap that went so far as to physically strike the camera man.

[JPritch]

I was just in Damascus this weekend. I think I drove by that place on the way to the library. Can anyone confirm it's just before the right turn to Water St?

[saltysack]

I guess it’s safe to assume they’re not serving kosher food....[emoji38]....what D bags but I’m curious what happened prior to the camera scene......real winners


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[Uncle Joe]

Somewhere in the Facebook threads about this someone noted that the place is supposed to be closing soon. Maybe a number of things are brewing. When I was there last month a waiter noted that it was very hard to get their license and things in the town have become difficult. Maybe there's a reason for that and maybe the owners have had issues in town. Speculation but there are two sides to that story just as there are likely two sides to this one. In the end, nothing should ever rise to the point you're slinging this type of bigoted diatribe at someone.

[MuddyWaters]

What happened that led up to this confrontation? I mean, it must take alot for a business owner to come outside and assault a ?customer?. The video only shows one side.

^^

for someone to come after someone down street and flip them off and insult them....they was provoked somehow. Someone waiting with a phone to video...douchebag as well.. Normal people dont create problems, and if there is conflict they just ......leave. They dont video unless they want to start something by posting it ...online. Hey...wait a minute....

[JumpMaster Blaster]

I practically RAN here after work to post this. Glad someone beat me to the punch. I was just talking about how friendly people are every time I come to Damascus. Now I'm not so sure. I have eaten there before but will absolutely reconsider visiting Damascus any time soon because of this. If they're anti Semitic I wonder how they'd react to me walking in?

It wouldn't be good for either party. I hope their business fails miserably.

[KDogg]

So the owners of "Hey Joe's" are willing to spout horrible anti-Semitic crap...

...but what's the "rest of the story"?

In modern society, bigotry doesn't raise to the level of physical violence unless the bigot is provoked.

So I've got to wonder what the camera man did or said before the camera was rolling that provoked this anti-Semitic crap that went so far as to physically strike the camera man.
We need to stop tolerating the intolerant - it doesn't matter what set them off. They are what they are.

[gracebowen]

Regardless if how proveked they were if they were there is no excuse. Plus when i called for their side of the story I was cussed at unprovoked.

Additionally I spoke to a resident who told me they had a reputation of bad behavior.

[gracebowen]

Also maybe they had the phone out because they were followed. And one of the owners said he wanted to be filmed. I heard it when I watched the video.

[MuddyWaters]

We need to stop tolerating the intolerant - it doesn't matter what set them off. They are what they are.

But thats being intolerant......

theres more to being tolerant.......than tolerating only people you agree with.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

So the owners of "Hey Joe's" are willing to spout horrible anti-Semitic crap...

...but what's the "rest of the story"?

In modern society, bigotry doesn't raise to the level of physical violence unless the bigot is provoked.

So I've got to wonder what the camera man did or said before the camera was rolling that provoked this anti-Semitic crap that went so far as to physically strike the camera man.

Soo, what did the Jews in Europe do to provoke Hitler?

I'll wait....

[KDogg]

But thats being intolerant......

theres more to being tolerant.......than tolerating only people you agree with.

Yeah, our warped sense of Freedom in this country would say so. However, the video shows intolerance by any measure and THAT, imo, is what we need to rise up against as a society.

[rickb]

Yeah, our warped sense of Freedom in this country would say so. However, the video shows intolerance by any measure and THAT, imo, is what we need to rise up against as a society.

So should the people of Damascus.

[Redrowen]

Soo, what did the Jews in Europe do to provoke Hitler?

I'll wait....

HooKooDooKu did say "In Modern Society". Pre WWII is not considered modern society.

I disagree with people having to be provoked to reach this level of violence. We live in a time of hateful name calling and demonizing when some disagrees with you, but I'm also interested to know what happened prior to these two knuckleheads going off like that.

[dudeijuststarted]

I wonder what rumblings are about at ATC HQ....

[ernie84]

HooKooDooKu did say "In Modern Society". Pre WWII is not considered modern society.


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/001/191/035/135.png

[SkeeterPee]

I wouldn't dream of defending these guys, but I would be curious if the guy insulted them in anyway first. I read the topix on Hey Joe's it sounds like they fly a confederate flag and we know how that sets some people off. On Topix there was all kinds of inflammatory responses about them having the flag and derogatory references to their heritage.

As business owners they should be ready to handle such comments in a much more productive way, but I would be interested what was said before, not that it excuses their behavior. But were they purposely bated into a filmed response.

[saltysack]

Ha ***....see email adddress..this entire thing is bogus...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171024/68f9b0f6ad9a7f4aad7074918c469af1.jpg


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[saltysack]

Off google


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[Redrowen]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/001/191/035/135.png
Do you have something of substance to contribute regarding the definition of what is Modern Society?

[HooKooDooKu]

We need to stop tolerating the intolerant - it doesn't matter what set them off. They are what they are.
Since when is wondering what "set them off" equate to any suggestion of tolerance for spouting horrible anti-Semitic crap???

[Game Warden]

It is not against the law to be a jerk; God bless America. But I don't have to eat a jerk's tacos.

[HooKooDooKu]

Soo, what did the Jews in Europe do to provoke Hitler?

I'll wait....
Wow... That was a quick path to fulfilling Godwin's Law.

[rafe]

Wow... That was a quick path to fulfilling Godwin's Law.

Umm, not exactly -- we started there, with the crap about "Jewish oven" in the video.

[One Half]

They have the right to say whatever they want.

I find what they said disgusting.

I doubt they will be in business much longer and I will never support any business either if these guys own or control.

All that being said, as a decent human being, there's nothing anyone could ever say or do that would "provoke" me to respond like they did. And IMO, asking what the people filming did to "provoke" that response is akin to questioning what a woman did to provoke a rape.


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[SWODaddy]

IMG

Would you like to point out any inaccuracies in my post?

[gracebowen]

Ha ***....see email adddress..this entire thing is bogus...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171024/68f9b0f6ad9a7f4aad7074918c469af1.jpg


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When I called hey joes they answered the phone by asking what the f@@@ I wanted. They did not deny the allegation.

When I called the library I was informed that the owners of hey joes have a bad reputation.

I was also told that they are considered outsiders and that they dont fit in with the rest of the town.

I also understand the police are investigating the incident.

[HooKooDooKu]

there's nothing anyone could ever say or do that would "provoke" me to respond like they did.
That just means you're not an @$$-O like they are...
... and I would agree with the sentiment that I assume you are trying to make... there's nothing that could have been said or done to JUSTIFY the violence or the hate speech.

But that doesn't mean the camera man is totally innocent.


...asking what the people filming did to "provoke" that response is akin to questioning what a woman did to provoke a rape...
Unfair comparison... as you know a woman doesn't have to 'do' anything to become a victim.

But even an idiot doesn't start taking a swing a someone without being provoked in some manor... justified or not.

[Alligator]

So a number of posts were deleted. Political posts, which include posts slinging monkey poo at the government, will be deleted along with responses to said post. If it's not a political action with a clear trail connection it will be deleted.

As far as this thread, I am not ruling out the possibility that there was some contribution by the videographer to the confrontation. However assuming that had to have happened is mistaken. Sometimes random violence happens. Look no further than the AT to find a modern incident of two women being attacked simply for loving one another. Or Dylan Roof attacking a black church. I think he's quoted as saying he almost didn't do it because they were so nice to him. Someone pulling out a phone to record does not mean they have nefarious purposes. I've done it before with the intent to show it to the police as evidence.

I'm going to reopen the thread.

[Stone1984]

They have the right to say whatever they want.

I find what they said disgusting.

I doubt they will be in business much longer and I will never support any business either if these guys own or control.

All that being said, as a decent human being, there's nothing anyone could ever say or do that would "provoke" me to respond like they did. And IMO, asking what the people filming did to "provoke" that response is akin to questioning what a woman did to provoke a rape.


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This post says it all, I hope word spreads about these guys and they spend their last dollar trying to keep the store open and then end up broke and jobless. There is no reason to be that ignorant today. We as a society should have educated racism into extinction by now.

This has been posted in every hiking group I am in on facebook and I hope the majority of hikers get a chance to see it before eating there.

[cneill13]

Regardless of what they said, this hypersensitive PC world that we now live in is even worse.

People need to toughen the f@&k up. We have turned into a national of absolute wimps. Especially the snowflake children.

I welcome free speech and whatever anyone wants to say. And yes, even if it makes you uncomfortable.

And to get the police involved? Are you kidding me? Limiting any speech will turn us even more into a police state.

This story is horrible. But the public reaction was even worse.

[Old Hiker]

Regardless of what they said, this hypersensitive PC world that we now live in is even worse.

People need to toughen the f@&k up. We have turned into a national of absolute wimps. Especially the snowflake children.

I welcome free speech and whatever anyone wants to say. And yes, even if it makes you uncomfortable.

And to get the police involved? Are you kidding me? Limiting any speech will turn us even more into a police state.

This story is horrible. But the public reaction was even worse.

IMO - police are probably involved because of a recorded incidence of assault and battery on someone who appears to be backing away from the aggressor(s). I wonder what may have happened in a concealed carry state such as FL.

Free speech is one thing - regardless of the nasty content. INCLUDING profanity that coarsens the dialogue and society in general. However, anything you may say does NOT condone ANY violence against you.

[dudeijuststarted]

And to get the police involved? Are you kidding me? Limiting any speech will turn us even more into a police state.

The speech is one thing. It is vile, and people are appalled for a reason. I'm surprised by so much justification of ethnic cleansing on this thread. Free speech is one thing, condoning unthinkable slaughter is another. Being zombied out on bath salts or whatever the heck that was and physically chasing someone down & threatening them is also another. If there hadn't been a camera, who knows what those 2 idiots would have attempted.

Either way, they need serious counseling and separation from whatever moron is putting that stuff into their heads. Its gonna be a while until Damascus reputation heals from this one. I don't even want to go back there and its one of my go-to getaways.

[devoidapop]

This story is horrible. But the public reaction was even worse.

Did I miss something? These guys told someone to die in a "Jewish oven". What was the public reaction that you are so offended by? Just leave it at "This story is horrible."

[chknfngrs]

Unacceptable behavior by general public, let alone operators of a business. Any way you slice it. No matter if you play devils advocate and inquire about what led to the video we have seen. Completely inappropriate. Those fellas got problems and the internet just happens to be one of them.

[Lone Wolf]

i talked to the guy that was verbally and physically assaulted. i know the back story. the 2 clowns did get arrested

[taylorshiver]

You can't just tease us like that :)

[Lone Wolf]

You can't just tease us like that :)

from the town mayor... "Seems like our wonderful town has yet again been placed under the scrutiny of bad press. As with most issues, there is controversy. For those who viewed the hideous anti-Semitic video nothing can justify the statements, it certainly doesn't represent our community. The individual assaulted isn't innocent of wrong doing either. By his own admission, he went there to purchase illegal drugs, the transaction soured and spilled into the streets resulting in the the video and assault. The not so innocent victim refused to press charges, but chose to vent on social media. The town pressed charges, and the pair is in the regional jail. Nothing can justify the hideous statements by those involved. This does not represent Damascus or our citizens. The business is due to close at the end of the month."

[Old Hiker]

You can't just tease us like that :)

"It's just teasin'." :rolleyes:

[CalebJ]

To elaborate on Lone Wolf's post, the info is available on the Damascus VA Events page:
https://www.facebook.com/DamascusVAEvents/



Message from the Mayor
October 24, 2017
Seems like our wonderful Town has yet again been placed under the scrutiny of bad press. As with most issues, there is controversy. For those who viewed the hideous anti-Semitic video, nothing can justify the statements, it certainly doesn't represent our community. The individual assaulted isn't completely innocent of any wrong doing either. By his own admission, he went there in an attempt to purchase illegal drugs, the transaction soured inside the business and then spilled out into the streets, resulting in the videoed portion of the altercation. The victim didn't press charges, but instead chose to vent on social media. The Town has pressed charges, and the two men from the business are being held in the regional jail without bond. Nothing can justify the hideous statements made by those involved. This behavior does not represent Damascus or our citizens. The business was due to permanently close at the end of the month, but due to current circumstances is now closed.
(This is an informational post only, no Q&A)




Statement from the Damascus Police Department
October 23, 2017
For immediate release;
On October 23, 2017 at approximately 12:30pm a man came into the Damascus Police Department and reported that he had been in an altercation with the staff of Hey Joe’s restaurant in the town of Damascus. According to the alleged victim, a verbal altercation took place that spilled out into the street on South Shady Ave, where the man recorded the remainder of the incident using his cell phone. At that point one of the suspects is heard on the video making anti-Semitic statements toward the alleged victim, while the other suspect appears to strike at the alleged victim.
As a result of the incident, the Damascus Police Department charged Joseph E. Killian, age 33, of Damascus, with Disorderly Conduct and Assault and Battery, both class 1 misdemeanors.
Henry Oscar Killian II, age 35, of Damascus, was also charged with Disorderly Conduct.
Both men are being held without bond at the Abingdon Regional Jail.
Thank you,
Mike Hounshell
Chief – Damascus Police Department
(This is an informational post only, no Q&A)

[TNhiker]

Besides trails daze----is Damascus a hot bed of illegal drugs?

[chknfngrs]

Ahhhh. Illegal drugs. Ok. Shows over.

[CalebJ]

Ahhhh. Illegal drugs. Ok. Shows over.
It's not as if that actually excuses anything here. Sure, he's guilty of buying drugs, and perhaps being a jerk (we'll never really know). The behaviour from the video still deserves jail time, however.

[chknfngrs]

No doubt, I’m just done watching. Changing the channel now.

[capehiker]

Interesting. Yesterday the claim was made that the incident began when the person videotaping overheard the owners making anti-semetic comments and he confronted them about it.

[chknfngrs]

Last thought then I’m out. I personally don’t use drugs and I have no beef with people that do.

It just plain hurts to see people get into a pickle or hurt themselves because of drugs.

Both parties here seem to fall under that umbrella. Both sets of these dudes are human beings and children of someone somewhere. It’s just plain sad.

[CalebJ]

Interesting. Yesterday the claim was made that the incident began when the person videotaping overheard the owners making anti-semetic comments and he confronted them about it.

Where was that claim made? I kept a pretty good eye on the thread here and a couple of the facebook groups that were discussing it but definitely missed that.

[appalachian.jackson]

Local newspaper, hit her up
[email protected]

[JJ505]

I'm curious as to what could possibly justify Anti-Semitic spewing in the video. Let's say they were instigated in some way, what way would that be?

[Greenlight]

I ate there in May during Trail Days. They were slammed and the line was down the street and around the block. The food was actually pretty good. Won't be going back.

[capehiker]

Where was that claim made? I kept a pretty good eye on the thread here and a couple of the facebook groups that were discussing it but definitely missed that.

I can’t remember which FB page it was on, honestly. It’s possibe it was on the very first post that got deleted by Tom Kennedy.

[tdoczi]

But thats being intolerant......

theres more to being tolerant.......than tolerating only people you agree with.

"tolerant" in modern common usage simply means having the "correct" ideas about a certain range of topics. holding contrary opinions is "intolerant", and, ironically, will not be tolerated.

the very sentence "intolerance should not be tolerated" should make any sane and rational person's head explode.

it reminds me of an old fav of mine a friend in HS used to say- "dont conform, be like us." he was saying it sarcastically with tongue firmly plant in cheek. the people who dont want to tolerate intolerance are being serious i'm afraid.

[JPritch]

Just a couple points, then I too shall bow out of this. As this has turned political, I'm afraid nobody is changing anybody's mind on anything. That said:

1) for the few people who have suggested they will no longer visit Damascus because of the words of 2 people? Really? Way to paint an entire town with one brush. Don't stop there, get all of VA while you're at it, and even the entire South. We're all racist down here. I went to Damascus for the first time this past weekend and thought the town was amazing with tons of character, and I personally can't wait to return. Crazy Larry wouldn't take my money for a shower and asked me to pass the favor on. I think the people in Damascus are great.

2) making the assumption that those asking for the whole story are somehow approving of the videotaped behavior is quite a leap. Is it wrong for people to simply be curious what happened, or desire to have all the facts before passing judgement? Sounds wise to me.

3) I feel that as a society we are too consumed with "words" and "feelings". Someone can get gunned down on a street and most people won't bat an eyelid at the story on the news. But god forbid somebody says something to another regarding their race, gender, orientation, or religion. Sticks and stones...I learned that one in elementary school.

[Lone Wolf]

I ate there in May during Trail Days. They were slammed and the line was down the street and around the block. The food was actually pretty good. Won't be going back.

nobody will. that dump is closed for good. as far as the food being "good", anybody can make a taco or burrito. it ain't fine dining

[Lone Wolf]

I'm curious as to what could possibly justify Anti-Semitic spewing in the video.

they're just drunken, entitled Aholes is all

[Greenlight]

nobody will. that dump is closed for good. as far as the food being "good", anybody can make a taco or burrito. it ain't fine dining

You got me there! And when there are only three food joints in town, everybody is going to have a line. I do hope someone has the audacity to open a kosher deli in the space once Hey Joe’s shuts down! That would be epic. Who wants some matzo balls?


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[devoidapop]

This is what can happen when you buy your drugs from a taco dealer or vice versa.

[martinb]

Every town has their bad spots, no reason not to visit Damascus because of two idiots. I've been there a few times and have always had pleasant experiences.

[rocketsocks]

You got me there! And when there are only three food joints in town, everybody is going to have a line. I do hope someone has the audacity to open a kosher deli in the space once Hey Joe’s shuts down! That would be epic. Who wants some matzo balls?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProI love this idea, just make sure the insurance doesn’t lapse.

[RuthN]

http://www.blueridgeoutdoors.com/go-outside/damascus-restaurant-owners-arrested-racial-attack/

[moldy]

The Southern Poverty Law Center SPLC tracks these type of hate incidents on their web page. It is for tracking purposes. When you see this type of event, report it. I did.

[moldy]

I wonder if Hey Joe's Taco shop has a business license?

[Puddlefish]

Two events happened. One guy tried to illegally buy some sort of drug. Two racists committed a hate crime. Can we say that both sides are bad? I guess so... however, they're separate incidents, and one does not mitigate the other, one does not excuse the other.

You're entitled to your own opinions about the relative dangers of marijuana vs. alcohol. You're entitled to your own opinions on why people use opioids. You're entitled to your own opinion on whether vigilante justice is sometimes warranted. You're even entitled to your own opinion on if you think that Jews should be burned in ovens. However, if you don't actually believe that Jews should be burned in ovens, then please, please consider not saying that the victim was in any way shape of form was to blame for the hate speech.

If you believe that both sides are bad, then get involved in addressing each issue separately.

Edit:: Based on the article below posted by Lone Wolf... in the comments the hiker in question claims he wasn't there to buy drugs. So it comes down to one side having video evidence, and one side not having video evidence.

[Lone Wolf]

http://www.heraldcourier.com/news/brothers-charged-after-video-shows-them-making-anti-semitic-comments/article_1ef9fd2a-c44a-57af-a2fd-c3e50c275f36.html

[Greenlight]

It's gonna be a while until Damascus reputation heals from this one.

I benignly disagree. Damascus just happens to be the place where this happened this time. It happens all over the place. It has probably happened within 50 miles of you in the last month. But it wasn't recorded. And it wasn't in a town with an annual festival built around an activity you love. It happens wherever people's filters are down, like when they're drunk or stoned or tweaking or feel that those within earshot share their demented ideas.

Let's think about this a bit further. What makes Damascus the town that it is, and what makes Trail Days what it is? There is obviously a lot of interplay between the two. Damascus locals have to live there year round, and "put up with" an annual gathering that dumps hot smelly hiker-trash (myself included) in their lap every spring. That's who is opining on this topic. As much (or as little) of a connection we may have with Trail Days, and by extension Damascus, it is the backdrop to their day-to-day lives. Everywhere you go now, from the cities to smaller towns, there is a drug problem. Everywhere you go, there are, one might say people "not of good will."

For myself, I'll admit that there are certain portions of the populace with whom I have a greater affinity than I do for others. But I don't wish any other group outside of that affinity any ill will. I may not agree with their politics or their life choices. But the one thing I will celebrate in common with them is my love for the outdoors. My love for throwing a pack on my back and scooting out for the tree shadows. It is where I feel most like myself. And if you feel the same way, I'll bump your fist. I'll buy you a beer if you'll drink it. And I'll tell anyone who comes to mess with you that they're also gonna have to mess with me. That is the message we should spread next May in Damascus at Trail Days.

[chknfngrs]

Lone Wolf: you said talked to this hiker Craig Johnston. The article states he visited Taco Joes to buy marijuana, and that he knew the Taco Brothers prior to Monday. In the comments of the article, see that a Craig Johnston claims no drugs were involved because he had no money. And seems to have a chip on his shoulder, perhaps justifiably. You know the hiker, is there any shred of credibility to what that guy says?

[Greenlight]

Everywhere you go now is a hotbed of illegal drugs.

[AlamoHiker]

Is anyone, other than me, curious as to how a town with a population of 800, according to Bristol Herald Courier, needs 9 churches?

[Greenlight]

Easy. There are 55,000 people in Washington County.

[GoldenBear]

Is anyone, other than me, curious as to how a town with a population of 800, according to Bristol Herald Courier, needs 9 churches?

Not sure what you mean by "need." In a society where all people are 100% free to set up or attend any house of worship they want -- or not do so -- it may happen that nine groups of such people can decide to do so in a town of 800. Or they may not do so -- the choice, either way, is 100% theirs. Since I choose to attend a congregation that averages fewer then thirty people in attendance each week, the fact that there may be nine such groups in a town of 800 is of no surprise to me. And it is certainly no direct concern for me whether that number is nine, nineteen, 99, one, or zero. I'm surprised that anyone, outside that community, would care one way or another.

[Time Zone]

Lone Wolf: you said talked to this hiker Craig Johnston. The article states he visited Taco Joes to buy marijuana, and that he knew the Taco Brothers prior to Monday. In the comments of the article, see that a Craig Johnston claims no drugs were involved because he had no money. And seems to have a chip on his shoulder, perhaps justifiably. You know the hiker, is there any shred of credibility to what that guy says?

I found it very surprising that the hiker in question was said to have volunteered the information that he was seeking to purchase illegal drugs. Who volunteers information like that to authorities? [no one in their right mind, ha ha]. I just wonder if he really said that, it strikes me as awfully odd, but then again IANAL and I don't partake in illegal drugs, so maybe it's not unusual to those who know the law or know the recreational drug world.

I also found it curious that the restaurant in question was said to be soon shutting down "anyway." If it was explained why, I missed it. Such a story may calm down those ready to pile on, and give the impression that the town was already in an adversarial position with them, and thus counter any negative inferences about the town's atmosphere.

[TJ aka Teej]

...this hypersensitive PC world that we now live in is even worse.
... We have turned into a national of absolute wimps. Especially the snowflake children.

No politics, per the mod's post, please.

This story is horrible. But the public reaction was even worse.
The public reaction is appropriate, and not "worse" than the bigotry.

[Greenlight]

If you aren't caught in the act of misdemeanoring, and if volunteering such information isn't going to lead to a search of your property, a person is as free to talk to the authorities about his proclivities as he is any other citizen or stranger. Especially if it was just weed. But maybe it was meth, who knows? In fact, cops love it when users turn in their dealers. They'll let the user slide and bust the dealer. As to why "Hey Joe's" was on the verge of closing anyway, ... who knows? Maybe you get a more consistent product at the Taco Bell down the road because it isn't made by tweakers?

[FreeGoldRush]

The article said both men were held without bond. There's gotta be more to the story.

[johnacraft]

I also found it curious that the restaurant in question was said to be soon shutting down "anyway." If it was explained why, I missed it.

I haven't seen it explained, but many tourist-oriented businesses in smaller towns like Damascus shut down for the winter. With fall color peaking and winter on the way, the last weekend of October would be a sensible time to close.

[Time Zone]

Oh, I took it as meaning they were being shut down for good, not for the season. But you could be right.

[Lone Wolf]

Is anyone, other than me, curious as to how a town with a population of 800, according to Bristol Herald Courier, needs 9 churches?

10 actually. not a need but obviously a want

[Lone Wolf]

Oh, I took it as meaning they were being shut down for good, not for the season. But you could be right.

for good.......

[SwathHiker]

The Southern Poverty Law Center SPLC tracks these type of hate incidents on their web page. It is for tracking purposes. When you see this type of event, report it. I did.

That's great! Someone taking a positive action.

I'm disgusted with the Mayor for shifting the focus off of where it should be. After speaking with the people of Damascus over on Tear Drop's You Tube channel yesterday I had every intention of moving right along on this because these guys will be gone, but now I see that this guy probably stopped in and asked to buy a joint or something while out hiking, or perhaps even something less interesting like a xanax to help him sleep in the shelter (who knows), and she makes it sound like he's sitting in their smoking crack with them and is "equally to blame." Not her words but certainly the gist of her sentiment. I'm disgusted by that and feel Damascus needs a new spokesperson. They have at least two over on You Tube in the comments section, as a starting point.

[TOW]

What happened that led up to this confrontation? I mean, it must take alot for a business owner to come outside and assault a ?customer?. The video only shows one side.Exactly

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[SwathHiker]

"there." Autocomplete. I can see I'll have to donate and gain editing abilities. Should do it anyway. Is a great resource.

[TOW]

So the owners of "Hey Joe's" are willing to spout horrible anti-Semitic crap...

...but what's the "rest of the story"?

In modern society, bigotry doesn't raise to the level of physical violence unless the bigot is provoked.

So I've got to wonder what the camera man did or said before the camera was rolling that provoked this anti-Semitic crap that went so far as to physically strike the camera man.I agree

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[TOW]

^^

for someone to come after someone down street and flip them off and insult them....they was provoked somehow. Someone waiting with a phone to video...douchebag as well.. Normal people dont create problems, and if there is conflict they just ......leave. They dont video unless they want to start something by posting it ...online. Hey...wait a minute....Yep

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[TOW]

I practically RAN here after work to post this. Glad someone beat me to the punch. I was just talking about how friendly people are every time I come to Damascus. Now I'm not so sure. I have eaten there before but will absolutely reconsider visiting Damascus any time soon because of this. If they're anti Semitic I wonder how they'd react to me walking in?

It wouldn't be good for either party. I hope their business fails miserably.You cannot hold the town responsible

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[SwathHiker]

Not really. People have different denominations and different styles. Well, yes, now I am... lol. Presumably they have different styles and approaches. I'll ask them when I pass through next year.

[TOW]

That just means you're not an @$$-O like they are...
... and I would agree with the sentiment that I assume you are trying to make... there's nothing that could have been said or done to JUSTIFY the violence or the hate speech.

But that doesn't mean the camera man is totally innocent.


Unfair comparison... as you know a woman doesn't have to 'do' anything to become a victim.

But even an idiot doesn't start taking a swing a someone without being provoked in some manor... justified or not.Leaves to wonder doesn't it

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[TOW]

The speech is one thing. It is vile, and people are appalled for a reason. I'm surprised by so much justification of ethnic cleansing on this thread. Free speech is one thing, condoning unthinkable slaughter is another. Being zombied out on bath salts or whatever the heck that was and physically chasing someone down & threatening them is also another. If there hadn't been a camera, who knows what those 2 idiots would have attempted.

Either way, they need serious counseling and separation from whatever moron is putting that stuff into their heads. Its gonna be a while until Damascus reputation heals from this one. I don't even want to go back there and its one of my go-to getaways.Horse phooey

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[TOW]

This is what can happen when you buy your drugs from a taco dealer or vice versa.[emoji23]

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[rickb]

The article said both men were held without bond. There's gotta be more to the story.

That struck me as odd too.

Especially since one individual was said to be charged only with Disorderly Conduct — and his behavior (as reprehensible as we all found it) was outside a law enforcement officer’s direct observation.

[TJ aka Teej]

That struck me as odd too.
The without bond bit indicates outstanding issues.
Probation being the most likely, since warrants on locals would've been acted on.

[TJ aka Teej]

Leaves to wonder doesn't it

No, Larry. It doesn't.

[smoovoperator]

What a bunch of ass hats!!

[squeezebox]

The hatred has to be there first before it can be turned to hate speech or hate crimes. Biggots are seldom provoked by the victim. That's like saying the black man who was linched was at fault for saying good morning to the white woman.

[Old Hiker]

The hatred has to be there first before it can be turned to hate speech or hate crimes. Biggots are seldom provoked by the victim. That's like saying the black man who was linched was at fault for saying good morning to the white woman.

With respect:

No such thing as hate speech. You either have free speech, regardless of content or you are a suppressed population.

No such thing as a hate crime. Either an action is a crime or it isn't. The ignorance of the perpetrator should have NO bearing on what the crime was.

[squeezebox]

So you're wrong!! and luckily our judiciary and congress also think you're wrong. Read some stuff about constitutional law.
What you are saying is simply fascist propaganda. No reality!

[tdoczi]

So you're wrong!! and luckily our judiciary and congress also think you're wrong. Read some stuff about constitutional law.
What you are saying is simply fascist propaganda. No reality!

wooooooowwwwww (had to be 10 characters0

[Gambit McCrae]

Terrible and completely unlike any trail town experience I have ever had. I hate that the video taker had to listen to that. They will be out of biz soon.

[squeezebox]

Things like burning down black churches, maybe chaining the doors with the people inside. Shooting up a gay bar. Pick up drivers obviously running down and killing cyclists. My neighbor is pissed off at my dog crapping in his yard. Threatened to kill my dog and maybe me. Certainly a threat of violence. But if he goes off shooting dogs and their walkers in the local park, people he doesn't know. Then it does became a hate crime.

[TJ aka Teej]

No such thing as hate speech.

No such thing as a hate crime.

That's a very privileged opinion to hold.

[Lone Wolf]

Terrible and completely unlike any trail town experience I have ever had. I hate that the video taker had to listen to that. They will be out of biz soon.

they're closed for good. all banners and signs are gone. the building is for sale

[chknfngrs]

LW: the article comments also highlight Craig’s commentary about the drugs. He was there, and asked the Taco Brothers about buying some, and was told by one brother that they knew of a source. Then Craig said he didn’t want to buy from someone “sight unseen” whatever that means. No need to respond to earlier question about Craig’s comments.

[Lone Wolf]

LW: the article comments also highlight Craig’s commentary about the drugs. He was there, and asked the Taco Brothers about buying some, and was told by one brother that they knew of a source. Then Craig said he didn’t want to buy from someone “sight unseen” whatever that means. No need to respond to earlier question about Craig’s comments.

he's now denying he was there to buy pot

[TNhiker]

Then Craig said he didn’t want to buy from someone “sight unseen” whatever that means.




means he aint buying unless he sees the product .............

[chknfngrs]

His comments from the article you linked to are ridiculous, makes him look bad. Calling the mayor a loser?!? Cmon dude. Anyways you had said you talked to him and you have a good head on your shoulders and seemingly good judgment of character (always on point wrt thru hiker attitudes and shelters 😂)

[TNhiker]

No such thing as a hate crime. Either an action is a crime or it isn't. The ignorance of the perpetrator should have NO bearing on what the crime was.




you have this wrong.....

please educate yourself on what a hate crime is...

here's a link for you...


https://www.justice.gov/crt/hate-crimes-0

[tdoczi]

That's a very privileged opinion to hold.

as far as hate speech is concerned its not an opinion, there is, in legal terms, no such thing as hate speech. if you want to stand on a street corner yelling about how (insert race or ethnicity or whatever of your choice here) are terrible people that you loathe and despise there is nowhere in the country there is any law prohibiting you from doing so.

plenty of people like to act these days as if there, including tons of people who allegedly should know better, but there isnt.

you will not find one single statute anywhere describing what "hate speech" is or in anyway outlawing it.

hate crimes have been codified in some places

[Greenlight]

the building is for sale

C'mon somebody...step up! We're talkin' Kosher Deli here. Not the Yellow Deli. Not the Deli Lama. Name it the Hikertrashcus Delimascus. It's Deli Ishus, just ask the Missus.

[Greenlight]

And you can take a seat even before you get to the showers because, let's face it, by the time you get off the trail you already smell like a hot deli sammich.

[rocketsocks]

Lox, Stock and Barrel.

[Rightfoot]

I just want to put a positive spin on this thread by taking away the references to people and lifestyle choices. I've been a guest of the town of Damascus 19 times in the past 12 years. While I've had differing experiences, Damascus is still one of my favorite small mountain towns. Looking back, I've stayed in 5 different hostels. While the experiences were different (each facility had its own quirks) I've never had an experience that would preclude me from returning. My wife and I have stayed in 3 different B&B's and always had a great experience. I've been welcomed into 3 different church's, once smelling pretty poor and been invited back for pot luck dinner. I've been welcomed to use a families personal phone on their front porch when I found no cell coverage. I've eaten in dare I say, all of the eateries that the town has to offer. Have I had mixed meals, yes, but none so terrible I would not return. I've shopped the limited retail stores and supported the local economy. No, I have not attended Trail Days but perhaps someday. I have provided my fair share of support to the local brewery. The local hiking and biking opportunities are hard to match in the SE United States. I could ramble on but.. Damascus... My wife and I will be back!

[rocketsocks]

I just want to put a positive spin on this thread by taking away the references to people and lifestyle choices. I've been a guest of the town of Damascus 19 times in the past 12 years. While I've had differing experiences, Damascus is still one of my favorite small mountain towns. Looking back, I've stayed in 5 different hostels. While the experiences were different (each facility had its own quirks) I've never had an experience that would preclude me from returning. My wife and I have stayed in 3 different B&B's and always had a great experience. I've been welcomed into 3 different church's, once smelling pretty poor and been invited back for pot luck dinner. I've been welcomed to use a families personal phone on their front porch when I found no cell coverage. I've eaten in dare I say, all of the eateries that the town has to offer. Have I had mixed meals, yes, but none so terrible I would not return. I've shopped the limited retail stores and supported the local economy. No, I have not attended Trail Days but perhaps someday. I have provided my fair share of support to the local brewery. The local hiking and biking opportunities are hard to match in the SE United States. I could ramble on but.. Damascus... My wife and I will be back!no bad towns, only bad individuals.

[Last Call]

Very sad :( Why do the townspeople allow such behavior?

[Lone Wolf]

Very sad :( Why do the townspeople allow such behavior?

seriously?.............

[Just Bill]

Very sad :( Why do the townspeople allow such behavior?


seriously?.............
Seriously. In my town we walk door to door in large groups and confront people to screen them out. All residents are subject to physiological testing and screening prior to moving into town.
Any townsfolk who step out of line are taken to the townsquare and stoned to death at high noon. Our children all come out and watch to help teach them our intolerance for intolerance.

We certainly don't let a bunch of homeless drifters in our town who smell, drink, do drugs or party. That's not a level of tolerance we can tolerate.

As the Mayor Lone Wolf you should be ashamed and your entire town wiped off the map.


Or I guess you could wait for a crime to occur, arrest those who commit one and go back to minding yer own business and welcoming weird strangers into your town.

But that sounds intolerable.

[rocketsocks]

:D
Seriously. In my town we walk door to door in large groups and confront people to screen them out. All residents are subject to physiological testing and screening prior to moving into town.
Any townsfolk who step out of line are taken to the townsquare and stoned to death at high noon. Our children all come out and watch to help teach them our intolerance for intolerance.

We certainly don't let a bunch of homeless drifters in our town who smell, drink, do drugs or party. That's not a level of tolerance we can tolerate.

As the Mayor Lone Wolf you should be ashamed and your entire town wiped off the map.


Or I guess you could wait for a crime to occur, arrest those who commit one and go back to minding yer own business and welcoming weird strangers into your town.

But that sounds intolerable.what kinda burn time do you get on your torch? Do you use kerosene or just whatever bottle stashed in the garage is leftover from the cross burnings, I mean Sunday social.

[Greenlight]

Yes! I like the way you think.


Lox, Stock and Barrel.

[HooKooDooKu]

The hatred has to be there first before it can be turned to hate speech or hate crimes. Biggots are seldom provoked by the victim. That's like saying the black man who was linched was at fault for saying good morning to the white woman.
I don't think ANYONE said the cameraman was at FAULT. The simple question was what provoked the incident.

So if you're going to draw a comparison with your example, then the black man provoked the lynching (even if not intentionally) by saying good morning to a white woman in front of a group of bigots.

There is a HUGE difference between 'provoked' and 'fault'.

[KDogg]

The simple question was what provoked the incident.

The problem is that this is the question that folks ask first and by doing so removes the onus off of the perpetrators. It is the same as asking what a rape victim was wearing. The very nature of this type of question implies that the victim was responsible for the crime. It implies that perpetrators aren't necessarily responsible depending on what the victim said or did (or wore). There is no excuse for the hatred spewed by the perpetrators here and it doesn't matter what the victim did.

[Redrowen]

The problem is that this is the question that folks ask first and by doing so removes the onus off of the perpetrators. It is the same as asking what a rape victim was wearing. The very nature of this type of question implies that the victim was responsible for the crime. It implies that perpetrators aren't necessarily responsible depending on what the victim said or did (or wore). There is no excuse for the hatred spewed by the perpetrators here and it doesn't matter what the victim did.
There is nothing malicious about wanting to know what happened prior to the two knuckleheads going off like that or using the term provoked in that manner. Inquiring minds want to know! Some people need to work on their semantics.

[rocketsocks]

If I may. Let’s review. What do we know? A man was accosted by two individuals and according to a statement given by the victim, was struck. And that’s all we know. The evidence is damning and likely won’t go to trail, the two will enter a plea and serve some time...at least one will. At sentencing the judge will take into account the nature of the crime and what was said and rule accordingly, he will not ask the victim what he did to provoke, what he was wearing or even what his role was, he’s not on trial, he gets to pass go collect $200 dollars and skippy on down the trail. Next case!

[TOW]

I just want to put a positive spin on this thread by taking away the references to people and lifestyle choices. I've been a guest of the town of Damascus 19 times in the past 12 years. While I've had differing experiences, Damascus is still one of my favorite small mountain towns. Looking back, I've stayed in 5 different hostels. While the experiences were different (each facility had its own quirks) I've never had an experience that would preclude me from returning. My wife and I have stayed in 3 different B&B's and always had a great experience. I've been welcomed into 3 different church's, once smelling pretty poor and been invited back for pot luck dinner. I've been welcomed to use a families personal phone on their front porch when I found no cell coverage. I've eaten in dare I say, all of the eateries that the town has to offer. Have I had mixed meals, yes, but none so terrible I would not return. I've shopped the limited retail stores and supported the local economy. No, I have not attended Trail Days but perhaps someday. I have provided my fair share of support to the local brewery. The local hiking and biking opportunities are hard to match in the SE United States. I could ramble on but.. Damascus... My wife and I will be back!Cool

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

[earlyriser26]

Damascus is one of my favorite trail towns. It is so sad to see two people acting this way. Like others have said, it can happen anywhere. I will be back in Damascus on Thursday to ride the Creeper, hopefully I don't run into these two creeps.

[rocketsocks]

Damascus is one of my favorite trail towns. It is so sad to see two people acting this way. Like others have said, it can happen anywhere. I will be back in Damascus on Thursday to ride the Creeper, hopefully I don't run into these two creeps.as long as you keep your nose clean it’s not likely, they’re in the pokey.

[Puddlefish]

I don't think ANYONE said the cameraman was at FAULT. The simple question was what provoked the incident.

So if you're going to draw a comparison with your example, then the black man provoked the lynching (even if not intentionally) by saying good morning to a white woman in front of a group of bigots.

There is a HUGE difference between 'provoked' and 'fault'.

Your argument is still flawed on several levels. Provoke. (https://www.google.com/search?q=provoke+definition&oq=provoke+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.4889j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) Take a good look at the word, and take a look at your original post, and how you used it. Provoke has a negative connotation, in that it uses anger or unwelcome emotions as a method of achieving change.

"In modern society, bigotry doesn't raise to the level of physical violence unless the bigot is provoked." These are your words. Bigots start crap all the time, with, or without provocation. I had the misfortune to drive my elderly father and his racist wife across the country last week. She was spewing unprovoked bigotry and hatred non stop for the entire week. Fortunately for me, she'd wait to get back into the car before making her opinions known, because she's also a coward.

I try hard not to be a bigot myself. There is no provocation that could make me lash out in anger with against the Jewish race, against a Jew, that could make me rant into a tirade about burning in the ovens like your ancestors. Zero. Someone could kick my puppy, punch me in the berries, insult my mother, assault my daughter, and I still wouldn't think to respond to them with hate speech about their ethnicity. This is because I'm not a racist bigot. I'd still react unpleasantly, maybe even violently, I'd certainly get upset if these things happened.

There is zero provocation that can make someone respond in a bigoted manner, unless they are a bigot to start with. Hate speech and hate crime has it's own category as awful, simply because there is nothing the victim can or should do to avoid it. They can't change the color of their skin, they can't change their facial features, they can't change their culture.

You can't turn off your Jewishness before going to buy a taco, you can't turn off your Jewishness before walking down the street at night, you can't even turn off your Jewishness before committing a minor crime, like speeding, or attempting to buy a bit of weed.

[rickb]

Your argument is still flawed on several levels. Provoke. (https://www.google.com/search?q=provoke+definition&oq=provoke+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.4889j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) Take a good look at the word, and take a look at your original post, and how you used it. Provoke has a negative connotation, in that it uses anger or unwelcome emotions as a method of achieving change.

OK to debate word choice.

I misunderstood HooKooDooku at first, so was heartened to read his follow up.

[Puddlefish]

OK to debate word choice.

I misunderstood HooKooDooku at first, so was heartened to read his follow up.

That's why my post was so long, because even accounting for poor word choice (which I've totally done myself) there's really no substitute word that can make his initial statement correct. There is no cause and effect where a reasonable non bigot just goes into bigot mode because of something that happened, or didn't happen. There can be any number of triggers, innocent or intentional, where a bigot goes into bigot mode.

[BuckeyeBill]

Hate Speech is Free Speech that is racially motivated. As well, Hate Crime Is a Crime, but is directed towards a particular class or group of people and or racially motivated.

[GaryM]

Did they arrest and charge the doper with anything? Or is this a case for the thought police only?

[TJ aka Teej]

Did they arrest and charge the doper with anything?

Arrested for getting punched? Why would they do that?


Or is this a case for the thought police only?

Did you see the video? Did you hear what those two were yelling?

[GaryM]

So it is illegal to solicit for purchase of illegal drugs. I guess the whole TV series "COPS" was a lie.
Could you also help me out with what was said. Was it the verbs or the nouns that were illegal? Are verbs or nouns worse?

[T-Rx]

[QUOTE=GaryM;2177271]So it is illegal to solicit for purchase of illegal drugs. I guess the whole TV series "COPS" was a lie.
He saw it on TV so it must be true! ROFLMAO!

[firesign]

So it is illegal to solicit for purchase of illegal drugs. I guess the whole TV series "COPS" was a lie.
Could you also help me out with what was said. Was it the verbs or the nouns that were illegal? Are verbs or nouns worse?




People offended by words in this supersensitive world. Freedom to say what you want when you want has gone and it will never return. The day when the people really need a voice....there will be hushed silence because the laws will protect the system/govt again critical language. Freedom of speech - Dead.

Without Freedom of speech, there is no freedom of expression; not the full spectrum of a discussion or debate. Instead we tippy-toe around not wanting to offend some over-sensitive soul.

People use words, the use of which now have to be protected by laws, to protect people from being offended! People can choose NOT to be offended by the words used by others because we can turn the other cheek and ignore the offending individual.


Apologies that my opinion may differ from others, Best to all.

[Puddlefish]

People offended by words in this supersensitive world. Freedom to say what you want when you want has gone and it will never return. The day when the people really need a voice....there will be hushed silence because the laws will protect the system/govt again critical language. Freedom of speech - Dead.

Without Freedom of speech, there is no freedom of expression; not the full spectrum of a discussion or debate. Instead we tippy-toe around not wanting to offend some over-sensitive soul.

People use words, the use of which now have to be protected by laws, to protect people from being offended! People can choose NOT to be offended by the words used by others because we can turn the other cheek and ignore the offending individual.


Apologies that my opinion may differ from others, Best to all.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." This is a philosophy for children, when the adults don't feel like dealing with them.

In practice however, words are very much used to inflame crowds into violence, to discriminate against groups, and other such real life concerns that are detrimental in an everyday meaningful way that very much affects real live people. Words are used to dehumanize groups of people so that the speaker can feel justified in taking away their rights and freedoms.

You can't yell fire in a movie theater, you can't incite a riot, you can't intimidate people into not voting, you can't threaten people with violence. The law is clear on this, and it has been for a long time. When you speak and act so against a vulnerable group, it's even worse.

Why would you choose not to be offended, when someone is actively trying to take away your humanity, your rights, and your freedom? Turn the other cheek is a stupid religious concept and has no validity to the law.

[firesign]

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." This is a philosophy for children, when the adults don't feel like dealing with them.

In practice however, words are very much used to inflame crowds into violence, to discriminate against groups, and other such real life concerns that are detrimental in an everyday meaningful way that very much affects real live people. Words are used to dehumanize groups of people so that the speaker can feel justified in taking away their rights and freedoms.

You can't yell fire in a movie theater, you can't incite a riot, you can't intimidate people into not voting, you can't threaten people with violence. The law is clear on this, and it has been for a long time. When you speak and act so against a vulnerable group, it's even worse.

Why would you choose not to be offended, when someone is actively trying to take away your humanity, your rights, and your freedom? Turn the other cheek is a stupid religious concept and has no validity to the law.


If someone incites a riot, libel's someone, threatens to assault someone, I get it, call the cops. But there are separate laws for these offences - some offences do incorporate words during their commission but the words are the means to the end or objective.

I think that it is very unfair to deliberately offend someone, but to restrict what a fellow human being wants to say, in my book, is a travesty of real Freedom. Can people NOT ignore others who choose to use words that offend them? Yes they can, its a simple choice between Fear and Love. Really simple.

The famous American Philosopher, George Carlin better describes the use of language in his observations titled 'Euphemisms'. He nails it!

Best.

[Puddlefish]

If someone incites a riot, libel's someone, threatens to assault someone, I get it, call the cops. But there are separate laws for these offences - some offences do incorporate words during their commission but the words are the means to the end or objective.

I think that it is very unfair to deliberately offend someone, but to restrict what a fellow human being wants to say, in my book, is a travesty of real Freedom. Can people NOT ignore others who choose to use words that offend them? Yes they can, its a simple choice between Fear and Love. Really simple.

The famous American Philosopher, George Carlin better describes the use of language in his observations titled 'Euphemisms'. He nails it!

Best.

It's not a simple choice between fear and love. There's nothing simple about it.

It's lovely that you feel confident in your environment. Good for you. You feel confident that the police will take your side, you feel confident that the law will protect you, again, how nice it must be to be you. You have the option to ignore mean words, because you know they won't impact your life, you don't have to worry about the police profiling you based on your skin color, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation you don't have to worry about people accusing you of a crime because of how you look.

The US has some excellent freedoms of speech, but it's also had long held court rulings and laws restricting abuse of those freedoms of speech. Nothing has changed, no one is trying to be the thought police. These two clowns could have peacefully spread anti-Jewish pro-holocaust sentiments all day. However, they chose to take it to an unacceptable level when they threatened violence on the street based on their hateful rhetoric.

Edit: grammar

[squeezebox]

Hate Speech is Free Speech that is racially motivated. As well, Hate Crime Is a Crime, but is directed towards a particular class or group of people and or racially motivated.

Not quite sure what you're trying to say.
But hate speech is not protected under the 1st amendment, freedom of speech/press.
Hate crime considers the particularly depraved motivation of the criminal.
Millions of examples of each.

[squeezebox]

hate speech! The speech is protected. But the hatred is not. You have a right to yell at me for walking down the street wearing a skirt. (even though it's a very tasteful blue/grey with printed pineapples) but you don't have a right to threaten me harm.

[TJ aka Teej]

Could you also help me out with what was said.

Find a night school near you. Enroll without delay.

[Zea]

People offended by words in this supersensitive world. Freedom to say what you want when you want has gone and it will never return. The day when the people really need a voice....there will be hushed silence because the laws will protect the system/govt again critical language. Freedom of speech - Dead.

Without Freedom of speech, there is no freedom of expression; not the full spectrum of a discussion or debate. Instead we tippy-toe around not wanting to offend some over-sensitive soul.

People use words, the use of which now have to be protected by laws, to protect people from being offended! People can choose NOT to be offended by the words used by others because we can turn the other cheek and ignore the offending individual.


Apologies that my opinion may differ from others, Best to all.

"We're gonna come find you later".
"You better be careful when you're walking around town, you jew ****"
"Don't forget we know where you're (inaudible, sounded like 'living')"

Harassment and threats are not "free speech", they're a crime and often a precursor to further violence.

Would you want to be in strange place, far from home, by yourself, with heavily intoxicated and racist(against you) locals who are openly expressing that they plan on attacking you later? Imagine going to the police station and the officer just shruggs his shoulders and says "free speech bro".

They have the right to say all the racist things they want, as well as to deny service at their restaurant, but they took it further.

My question to you is:
Really? You're going to pick a video where two people are telling someone they want him to burn in an oven like his ancestors, and that they're going to come find him later, and one either hits him or tries to break his camera, to go off on a "toughen up" rant to?

The two guys in this video did not get arrested for "offending an over-sensitive soul", you clearly have some other political intentions you're trying to impose on this situation.

[Uncle Joe]

Hate Speech is Free Speech that is racially motivated. As well, Hate Crime Is a Crime, but is directed towards a particular class or group of people and or racially motivated.
While I agree in principle, to an extent, "hate speech" has never really been defined and is largely colloquial. That said, as someone has pointed out, making threats that could be construed as terroristic certainly bring this into the legal realm, not to mention the out-right assault.

As much as people opine the South, anti-semitism isn't something I've found as pervasive as using something like the "N" word. I've lived all over the South, grew up here, and anti-Jewish rhetoric was just not part of my life and those I grew up with. This despite living in some seriously backwoods areas.

[gpburdelljr]

According to post #65, both were charged with Disorderly Conduct, and one also charged with Assualt and Battery. Both charges are class 1 misdemeanors. Were there any other charges?

[rickb]

According to post #65, both were charged with Disorderly Conduct, and one also charged with Assualt and Battery. Both charges are class 1 misdemeanors. Were there any other charges?

If you are really interested, the Washington County, VA General District Court website will have that information and more.

[Lone Wolf]

KILLIAN, HENRY OSCAR 02/01/2013 09:00 AM NO DRIVERS LICENSE
GC12017572-00 KILLIAN, HENRY OSCAR; II 12/05/2012 09:00 AM FUGITIVE W/ FELONY ARREST
GC12017573-00 KILLIAN, HENRY OSCAR; II 10/26/2012 09:00 AM PUBLIC SWEARING/INTOXICATION
GC15014729-00 KILLIAN, HENRY OSCAR; II 02/17/2016 09:00 AM DWI, 2ND Mark For Payment
PAST DUE
GC15014731-00 KILLIAN, HENRY OSCAR; II 03/02/2016 09:00 AM REFUSE BREATH TEST 2ND OFF
GC16015085-00 KILLIAN, HENRY OSCAR; II 12/02/2016 09:30 AM PUBLIC SWEARING/INTOXICATION Mark For Payment
PAST DUE
GC17020851-00 KILLIAN, HENRY OSCAR; II 11/15/2017 01:30 PM DISORDERLY CONDUCT
GT15014732-00 KILLIAN, HENRY OSCAR; II 02/17/2016 09:00 AM NO DRIVERS LICENSE
GT15014733-00 KILLIAN, HENRY OSCAR; II 02/17/2016 09:00 AM 37/25 SP Mark For Payment
PAST DUE
GT07007525-00 KILLIAN, JOHN DONALD; III 05/22/2007 01:30 PM 80/65 SP Mark For Payment
PAST DUE
GT14007351-00 KILLIAN, JOHN DWAYNE 06/27/2014 08:30 AM 80/70 SP
GC17020849-00 KILLIAN, JOSEPH EPHRIAM 11/15/2017 01:30 PM ASSAULT: (MISDEMEANOR)
GC17020850-00 KILLIAN, JOSEPH EPHRIAM 11/15/2017 01:30 PM DISORDERLY CONDUCT

[tdoczi]

But hate speech is not protected under the 1st amendment, freedom of speech/press.

this notion has gotten a lot of play and talk lately, but it is patently false. look it up. there are NO LAWS AGAINST "HATE SPEECH" ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

in fact, when and where attempts have been made to create such laws they have routinely and universally been thrown out by the first court to rule on them. its not even close or debatable.

these days the "you can't incite violence" thing gets brought into it. its not as simple as youd like to make it sound though. when a person hears speech and reacts violently it is entirely overly simplistic to say it is the speech's fault.

if someone on the train overhears me talking about how much i love the yankees and punches me because he is red sox fan my speech incited violence? that is essentially what is happening the world today. people are not liking things they are hearing so theyre beating up the speakers or causing unrest and its being blamed on the person speaking rather than those who act violently.

its a sad and frightening state of affairs. and you, and a few others here, have bought into it i'm afraid.

this thread should be shut down, i dont know why it has not been. i frankly dont know why it was ever opened. it has nothing to do with hiking.

[tdoczi]

talk all of 30 seconds googling.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/19/supreme-court-unanimously-reaffirms-there-is-no-hate-speech-exception-to-the-first-amendment/?utm_term=.d00220fb9501

c'mon people, not even kagan, ginsberg and sotomayor want to take your side, thank god.

[ZombieDust66]

I too made the mistake of asking what happened before the video started and found out the following about myself according to some Facebook users

1. I am an anti-Semitic sexist piece of ****
2. I am a bigot
3. I am ignorant
4. I am not a Nazi, but a Nazi sympathizer
5. I am a Nazi

Those are just the top five things I found out about myself from other hikers when I asked the question what was the whole story regarding the Hey Joes incident


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Alligator]

I too made the mistake of asking what happened before the video started and found out the following about myself according to some Facebook users

1. I am an anti-Semitic sexist piece of ****
2. I am a bigot
3. I am ignorant
4. I am not a Nazi, but a Nazi sympathizer
5. I am a Nazi

Those are just the top five things I found out about myself from other hikers when I asked the question what was the whole story regarding the Hey Joes incident


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe ask that folks not drag problems/arguments from other websites onto WB. There are all kinds of access issues regarding FB that prevent a rounded discussion--closed groups and privacy settings in particular.

Thank you.

[rocketsocks]

this notion has gotten a lot of play and talk lately, but it is patently false. look it up. there are NO LAWS AGAINST "HATE SPEECH" ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

in fact, when and where attempts have been made to create such laws they have routinely and universally been thrown out by the first court to rule on them. its not even close or debatable.

these days the "you can't incite violence" thing gets brought into it. its not as simple as youd like to make it sound though. when a person hears speech and reacts violently it is entirely overly simplistic to say it is the speech's fault.

if someone on the train overhears me talking about how much i love the yankees and punches me because he is red sox fan my speech incited violence? that is essentially what is happening the world today. people are not liking things they are hearing so theyre beating up the speakers or causing unrest and its being blamed on the person speaking rather than those who act violently.

its a sad and frightening state of affairs. and you, and a few others here, have bought into it i'm afraid.

this thread should be shut down, i dont know why it has not been. i frankly dont know why it was ever opened. it has nothing to do with hiking.so by your standards let say you make a statement about bringing harm to the commander and chief, how long do you think it is before you get detained? Post 911 and under the patriot act
You don’t have as many rights as you may think.

[ZombieDust66]

We ask that folks not drag problems/arguments from other websites onto WB. There are all kinds of access issues regarding FB that prevent a rounded discussion--closed groups and privacy settings in particular.

Thank you.

Sorry. Didn’t mean drag anything into this forum. Just making the point hikers in other forums don’t want everyone to know what happened before the video started just as some hikers in this forum don’t want you to know.

I don’t understand why some are afraid of the truth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RuthN]

...getting my popcorn. buckle in folks.

Boy, were you right.

[Montana]

<snip>Blatant Nazi Propaganda</snip>

This kind of garbage does not belong in a civilized society. Welcome to my ignore list.

ps: for those of you who don't know, surrounding a word in three sets of parens, like (((they))) is a way for a Nazi like RollTide to hide that fact from others when talking about people of Jewish ancestry. My grandfather's B17 was shot down while fighting Nazi bastards during WWII, and I will not stand idly by while these bastards spread their filth across the internet today.

[Alligator]

This kind of garbage does not belong in a civilized society. Welcome to my ignore list.

ps: for those of you who don't know, surrounding a word in three sets of parens, like (((they))) is a way for a Nazi like RollTide to hide that fact from others when talking about people of Jewish ancestry. My grandfather's B17 was shot down while fighting Nazi bastards during WWII, and I will not stand idly by while these bastards spread their filth across the internet today.Anti-Semitism has no place on the trail, and no place here on Whiteblaze.net either. The post referenced by Montana was removed. Normally, we remove posts that reference a deleted post, they are collateral damage. We do that so that the issue is not perpetuated. I am leaving Montana's post up because I applaud and agree with his words and I am grateful for his grandfather's service. I was also unaware of this convention of using three sets of parentheses and perhaps others are too.

[kibs]

i can confirm the 2 scumbags are the owners

They must be independently wealthy if they think they can treat the public like that.

[Lone Wolf]

They must be independently wealthy if they think they can treat the public like that.

the actual owner is the father of the 2 perps

[rocketsocks]

so by your standards let say you make a statement about bringing harm to the commander and chief, how long do you think it is before you get detained? Post 911 and under the patriot act
You don’t have as many rights as you may think.thanks for the PM, I’ll look into it. If I’m wrong I wanna know.

[putts]

From the comments section of the article linked in Post # 89. The hiker reported to be involved, Craig William Johnston, comments about the incident: (copied, pasted, edited [weeded out other user comments] from article)...

Craig William Johnston · Photographer (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Photographer/107600619269865) at Craig William Johnston (https://www.facebook.com/CraigWilliamJohnstonphoto/)
Also im on my third thru hike of the Appalachian trail and im. Triple crown hiker. No one wants to mention that im a hiker , just talk about my ethnicity. No aants to think a thru- hiker could be treated like this just a "Jew"

Like (https://www.facebook.com/plugins/feedback.php?api_key=612951348899049&channel_url=http%3A%2F%2Fstaticxx.facebook.com%2Fc onnect%2Fxd_arbiter%2Fr%2FhsBwMj6iLmk.js%3Fversion %3D42%23cb%3Df20cceb259cb11%26domain%3Dwww.heraldc ourier.com%26origin%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.heral dcourier.com%252Ff322508f33be8d%26relation%3Dparen t.parent&href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldcourier.com%2Ftncms%2F asset%2Feditorial%2F1ef9fd2a-c44a-57af-a2fd-c3e50c275f36%2F&locale=en_US&numposts=10&sdk=joey&version=v2.6&width=100%25#) · Reply (https://www.facebook.com/plugins/feedback.php?api_key=612951348899049&channel_url=http%3A%2F%2Fstaticxx.facebook.com%2Fc onnect%2Fxd_arbiter%2Fr%2FhsBwMj6iLmk.js%3Fversion %3D42%23cb%3Df20cceb259cb11%26domain%3Dwww.heraldc ourier.com%26origin%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.heral dcourier.com%252Ff322508f33be8d%26relation%3Dparen t.parent&href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldcourier.com%2Ftncms%2F asset%2Feditorial%2F1ef9fd2a-c44a-57af-a2fd-c3e50c275f36%2F&locale=en_US&numposts=10&sdk=joey&version=v2.6&width=100%25#) · 5
Craig William Johnston · Photographer (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Photographer/107600619269865) at Craig William Johnston (https://www.facebook.com/CraigWilliamJohnstonphoto/)
Oh and the Mayor of Damascus asked me to remove the video and label it a drug deal gone "sour" i wasnt buying any drugs. I had no money and no one had drugs.


Matt Faris · Virginia Tech (https://www.facebook.com/virginiatech/)
So can you let us know how you enncountered them? And how did you already know them? It would clear up a lot of the mis-information.Thanks, and happy hiking.


Craig William Johnston · Photographer (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Photographer/107600619269865) at Craig William Johnston (https://www.facebook.com/CraigWilliamJohnstonphoto/)
Matt i was just comin by to get food and hang they were closed , henry let me in we were hanging out. I asked joe if he could find pot he said he knew someone i told him i wouldnt buy pot sight unseen and he and henry started bugged and being weird meth heads






Matt Faris · Virginia Tech (https://www.facebook.com/virginiatech/)
Craig William Johnston you said you had no money and you werent buying drugs per your post above, right?

Craig William Johnston · Photographer (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Photographer/107600619269865) at Craig William Johnston (https://www.facebook.com/CraigWilliamJohnstonphoto/)
Matt Faris i was friendly with them, stopped by to eat they were closed. They let me in. I asked joe if he knew where i could get pot. He said he'd call someone. I said call him and ask him to come down. He said thats not how it works. I said well " i cant buy pot sight unseen." And joe started telling me to get the **** out so i got up and headed out the door. Joe wanted to fight. I told him to grow up and then heanry said " joe i think he has some jew in him.. the rest is on video. Last im gonna say on this. My official statement will be made soon through an Attorney.


















Matt Faris · Virginia Tech (https://www.facebook.com/virginiatech/)
Craig William Johnston you said you had no money and you werent buying drugs per your post above, right?

[chknfngrs]

Ladies and gentleman we should all move on.

[ZombieDust66]

From the comments section of the article linked in Post # 89. The hiker reported to be involved, Craig William Johnston, comments about the incident: (copied, pasted, edited [weeded out other user comments] from article)...

Craig William Johnston · Photographer (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Photographer/107600619269865) at Craig William Johnston (https://www.facebook.com/CraigWilliamJohnstonphoto/)
Also im on my third thru hike of the Appalachian trail and im. Triple crown hiker. No one wants to mention that im a hiker , just talk about my ethnicity. No aants to think a thru- hiker could be treated like this just a "Jew"

Like (https://www.facebook.com/plugins/feedback.php?api_key=612951348899049&channel_url=http%3A%2F%2Fstaticxx.facebook.com%2Fc onnect%2Fxd_arbiter%2Fr%2FhsBwMj6iLmk.js%3Fversion %3D42%23cb%3Df20cceb259cb11%26domain%3Dwww.heraldc ourier.com%26origin%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.heral dcourier.com%252Ff322508f33be8d%26relation%3Dparen t.parent&href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldcourier.com%2Ftncms%2F asset%2Feditorial%2F1ef9fd2a-c44a-57af-a2fd-c3e50c275f36%2F&locale=en_US&numposts=10&sdk=joey&version=v2.6&width=100%25#) · Reply (https://www.facebook.com/plugins/feedback.php?api_key=612951348899049&channel_url=http%3A%2F%2Fstaticxx.facebook.com%2Fc onnect%2Fxd_arbiter%2Fr%2FhsBwMj6iLmk.js%3Fversion %3D42%23cb%3Df20cceb259cb11%26domain%3Dwww.heraldc ourier.com%26origin%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.heral dcourier.com%252Ff322508f33be8d%26relation%3Dparen t.parent&href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldcourier.com%2Ftncms%2F asset%2Feditorial%2F1ef9fd2a-c44a-57af-a2fd-c3e50c275f36%2F&locale=en_US&numposts=10&sdk=joey&version=v2.6&width=100%25#) · 5
Craig William Johnston · Photographer (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Photographer/107600619269865) at Craig William Johnston (https://www.facebook.com/CraigWilliamJohnstonphoto/)
Oh and the Mayor of Damascus asked me to remove the video and label it a drug deal gone "sour" i wasnt buying any drugs. I had no money and no one had drugs.


Matt Faris · Virginia Tech (https://www.facebook.com/virginiatech/)
So can you let us know how you enncountered them? And how did you already know them? It would clear up a lot of the mis-information.Thanks, and happy hiking.


Craig William Johnston · Photographer (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Photographer/107600619269865) at Craig William Johnston (https://www.facebook.com/CraigWilliamJohnstonphoto/)
Matt i was just comin by to get food and hang they were closed , henry let me in we were hanging out. I asked joe if he could find pot he said he knew someone i told him i wouldnt buy pot sight unseen and he and henry started bugged and being weird meth heads






Matt Faris · Virginia Tech (https://www.facebook.com/virginiatech/)
Craig William Johnston you said you had no money and you werent buying drugs per your post above, right?

Craig William Johnston · Photographer (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Photographer/107600619269865) at Craig William Johnston (https://www.facebook.com/CraigWilliamJohnstonphoto/)
Matt Faris i was friendly with them, stopped by to eat they were closed. They let me in. I asked joe if he knew where i could get pot. He said he'd call someone. I said call him and ask him to come down. He said thats not how it works. I said well " i cant buy pot sight unseen." And joe started telling me to get the **** out so i got up and headed out the door. Joe wanted to fight. I told him to grow up and then heanry said " joe i think he has some jew in him.. the rest is on video. Last im gonna say on this. My official statement will be made soon through an Attorney.


















Matt Faris · Virginia Tech (https://www.facebook.com/virginiatech/)
Craig William Johnston you said you had no money and you werent buying drugs per your post above, right?



I had several comments back and forth with Craig on FB and the above seems correct.

I think the mayor used a poor choice of words when he said the deal soured or the mayor should have been a little more specific when describing what took place.

Obviously Craig did nothing to deserve the treatment he got. These guys were just ready to explode at any perceived slight and Craig just happened to be their to receive anti-Semitic rant


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TOW]

I benignly disagree. Damascus just happens to be the place where this happened this time. It happens all over the place. It has probably happened within 50 miles of you in the last month. But it wasn't recorded. And it wasn't in a town with an annual festival built around an activity you love. It happens wherever people's filters are down, like when they're drunk or stoned or tweaking or feel that those within earshot share their demented ideas.

Let's think about this a bit further. What makes Damascus the town that it is, and what makes Trail Days what it is? There is obviously a lot of interplay between the two. Damascus locals have to live there year round, and "put up with" an annual gathering that dumps hot smelly hiker-trash (myself included) in their lap every spring. That's who is opining on this topic. As much (or as little) of a connection we may have with Trail Days, and by extension Damascus, it is the backdrop to their day-to-day lives. Everywhere you go now, from the cities to smaller towns, there is a drug problem. Everywhere you go, there are, one might say people "not of good will."

For myself, I'll admit that there are certain portions of the populace with whom I have a greater affinity than I do for others. But I don't wish any other group outside of that affinity any ill will. I may not agree with their politics or their life choices. But the one thing I will celebrate in common with them is my love for the outdoors. My love for throwing a pack on my back and scooting out for the tree shadows. It is where I feel most like myself. And if you feel the same way, I'll bump your fist. I'll buy you a beer if you'll drink it. And I'll tell anyone who comes to mess with you that they're also gonna have to mess with me. That is the message we should spread next May in Damascus at Trail Days.Well written and said thank you. I live here in Damascus.

I love this town. I hiked in here broke and sick and for the most part have stayed that way but I have no complaints.

This town, this community saved me from a life of wandering. This community stood with me when I got slandered but not so much the AT community. No they spread it like wildfire up and down the trail and even added a little spice to it for effect. I still have to deal with it from a hiker once in awhile. Thank God I was able to put that behind me.

I been in the hostel business five years now. 95% of the time I get some of the nicest people on earth that stay. But about 5% are rogues so to speak.

The rogues have a loud voice when they screw up because something in their thinking makes them want to act out sometimes. And when that happens here at the hostel I get dragged thru the mud somehow. I got drugged through the mud with this because I was forced into an opinion after witnessing the story and events after the video was posted to my group first. Meaning Mr Johnson chose to post it on my group before he even posted it to his own timeline.

So I have an opinion and I stand with my mayor, my police, and my town on this. If the truth would have swayed towards Mr Johnson I would have agreed that Jack McCrady was victim blaming.

This town and our mayor were forced into this because the cowardly Mr Johnson would not press charges. Our police and mayor did the right thing here and threw their hateful butts in jail. While Mr Johnson glorified in the fame he had been seeking ever since I knew him our mayor threw them in jail and then made a statement. True and to the point.

If you who think otherwise and don't care for my opinion please do not fret yourself about staying here on your next hike thru here. This trail community is beginning to sicken me anyway. I hate saying this but this whole thing has given me the thought of directing my hostel away from the AT community and moving in a different direction.

You can say I am victim blaming too by standing with the mayor. I know that it reads like he is. But the truth is Mr Johnson is gulty as well. And not for just trying to score a little weed like he told me right here on my porch. But some of you already have your minds made up.

There are two sides to this but you war mongers who will jump at half truths with a bunch of lies tacked to it disgust me.

However I can see there are quite a few who may see things my way and that is all the support I need.




Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

[TOW]

The without bond bit indicates outstanding issues.
Probation being the most likely, since warrants on locals would've been acted on.Held without bond for their own safety I believe. But if Mr Johnson refuses to pick up the charges or come back when he is summoned they may have to turn them lose unless the feds step in.

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

[Lone Wolf]

mr. johnson is "guilty" of what?

[TOW]

mr. johnson is "guilty" of what?As far as guilt by the law standards nothing. But by his actions he is guilty.

Now I sit back and get ready to be attacked.

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

[Lone Wolf]

of what?......

[TOW]

You got stand for something or you will fall for anything

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

[TOW]

of what?......I have no more to say. I said my piece

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

[Lone Wolf]

"town and our mayor were forced into this because the cowardly Mr Johnson would not press charges". were the 2 hikers that were beat up some years ago by a local also cowards? folks here were gonna pay air fare and lodging for them to testify. they would not

[rocketsocks]

After reading Johnston’s tweets (or whatever damn social media kids are using these days) I’ve come to the conclusion his actions after the fact were nefariousness and he’s guilty of being and first class jackass, but that’s about it.

[rocketsocks]

He was lookin’ for weed/he wasn’t lookin’ for weed...whut da!

[TOW]

Just to make things clearer so you understand my statement on his guilt. As far as I am concerned Mr Johnson is guilty of going in there and inciting those guys. And those guys are as guilty as sin for their actions as well.

Lone Wolf I think Mr Johnson should have pressed charges in the first place, especially if he is innocent as he claims. I would have. But he did not and told me he would not come back to testify. He left it up to this town to do the right thing. That is pretty cowardly.

I like Mr Johnson very much but I do not like any of this at all. It sucks for all who are in involved especially for those of us who have a differing opinion. And I do not care what his nationality or his ethnicity is or religion is he is a human being like me. Any interaction I have had with Craig has been okay.

I wish he would quit changing his story come back and do the right thing, he can stay here while he is in town and I will do my best to keep some of the townspeople from getting upset with him cussing and calling them names on social media because they disagreed with him. He called a friend of mine a brainless moron.

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

[Zea]

The hiker could've done things far worse than trying to buy weed and it wouldn't change anything... as far as I can tell this thread is about the racist reaction by two owners of a known restaurant along the AT, not about victimizing a guy none of us know.

What would someone need to do to you for you to go on an antisemitic rant, tell them you hope they burn in an oven like their ancestors, and threaten to come find them later?


That's not normal crap-talking, that's deep seeded and threatening racism displayed in a time when thousands of others who openly share those same views are arming and militarizing themselves.


This thread served a purpose as it exposed these guys. Should they open a new restaurant in the future, I certainly won't be giving them my money. I could care less about town drama or the guy who recorded it, unless perhaps it came out that he was using equally racist language... which could at least give a context to why the guys felt the need to react in that kind of manner.

[TOW]

The hiker could've done things far worse than trying to buy weed and it wouldn't change anything... as far as I can tell this thread is about the racist reaction by two owners of a known restaurant along the AT, not about victimizing a guy none of us know.

What would someone need to do to you for you to go on an antisemitic rant, tell them you hope they burn in an oven like their ancestors, and threaten to come find them later?


That's not normal crap-talking, that's deep seeded and threatening racism displayed in a time when thousands of others who openly share those same views are arming and militarizing themselves.


This thread served a purpose as it exposed these guys. Should they open a new restaurant in the future, I certainly won't be giving them my money. I could care less about town drama or the guy who recorded it, unless perhaps it came out that he was using equally racist language... which could at least give a context to why the guys felt the need to react in that kind of manner.Well said

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[The Old Chief]

The only thing I'm still confused by is how did these two guys know Johnson was Jewish?

[zig-zag man]

This dead dog has been kicked, whipped, and beaten just about every way possible. I'm thinkin time to move on and end this chapter.

[rickb]

The only thing I'm still confused by is how did these two guys know Johnson was Jewish?

It is possible that he is not.

No?

[centerfieldr162]

The only thing I'm still confused by is how did these two guys know Johnson was Jewish?

And here I was thinking I was the only one wondering this... :-?

[TOW]

The only thing I'm still confused by is how did these two guys know Johnson was Jewish?Craig told ne he wasn't Jewish

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

[Lone Wolf]

Craig told ne he wasn't Jewish

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

he doesn't practice the religion but his mother is jewish which makes him jewish

[Lone Wolf]

he doesn't practice the religion but his mother is jewish which makes him jewish

The original and current Jewish definition of a born Jew is someone whose mother is Jewish. Even though the Torah forbids a Jewish woman to marry a Gentile man, if she does, her children will still be Jewish.

"The Torah also forbids a Jewish man to marry a Gentile woman, and if he does, his children by that woman will not be Jewish.

This annoys a great many people who wish to consider themselves Jewish, despite their non-Jewish mother. It is not my intention to annoy anyone. It is my intention to explain Judaism, and not to rationalize any dilution or changes in Jewish Law."

[rocketsocks]

The original and current Jewish definition of a born Jew is someone whose mother is Jewish. Even though the Torah forbids a Jewish woman to marry a Gentile man, if she does, her children will still be Jewish.

"The Torah also forbids a Jewish man to marry a Gentile woman, and if he does, his children by that woman will not be Jewish.

This annoys a great many people who wish to consider themselves Jewish, despite their non-Jewish mother. It is not my intention to annoy anyone. It is my intention to explain Judaism, and not to rationalize any dilution or changes in Jewish Law."i never ever heard this , thanks.

[TJ aka Teej]

I have no more to say. I said my piece



You're saying he's guilty of being Jewish, Larry?

[TOW]

he doesn't practice the religion but his mother is jewish which makes him jewishOh okay

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[TOW]

You're saying he's guilty of being Jewish, Larry?Take a hike pal

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[TOW]

The original and current Jewish definition of a born Jew is someone whose mother is Jewish. Even though the Torah forbids a Jewish woman to marry a Gentile man, if she does, her children will still be Jewish.

"The Torah also forbids a Jewish man to marry a Gentile woman, and if he does, his children by that woman will not be Jewish.

This annoys a great many people who wish to consider themselves Jewish, despite their non-Jewish mother. It is not my intention to annoy anyone. It is my intention to explain Judaism, and not to rationalize any dilution or changes in Jewish Law."I learned something

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[squeezebox]

I wonder what the Muslims have to say about mixed religion offspring?

[RuthN]

I wonder what the Muslims have to say about mixed religion offspring?

Moderators, I beg you to take this post down.

[squeezebox]

I just want to say I'm glad this is a infrequent conversation. Infrequent in town, and even less on the trail.
But I must say I am very concerned about the increase of White Supremist activity because of crazy guy in D.C.

[TOW]

I just want to say I'm glad this is a infrequent conversation. Infrequent in town, and even less on the trail.
But I must say I am very concerned about the increase of White Supremist activity because of crazy guy in D.C.Truly I think all this would have happened even if Clinton would have won. Its been brewing for years

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[ZombieDust66]

Truly I think all this would have happened even if Clinton would have won. Its been brewing for years

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Certainly it didn’t just happen in the last nine months


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[Dan Roper]

This has to be the worst thread in WB history.

[Starchild]

...\
This annoys a great many people who wish to consider themselves Jewish, despite their non-Jewish mother. It is not my intention to annoy anyone. It is my intention to explain Judaism, and not to rationalize any dilution or changes in Jewish Law."

Isn't there a way for someone to become Jewish? IIRC there were examples in the Old Testament (I say this respectfully as I know at least in translation it is different from the Torah, but I have only read the O.T. in respect to this). Though the example I am thinking if were then put to death while suffering the wounds of circumcision.

[attroll]

Closing this thread. We don't support racist or promote racism. Lets try to get back on track here and talk about hiking and the Appalachian Trail.