View Full Version : White gas
Planning 2018 at thruhike and am wondering if you can refill containers on at with white gas all along the trail or should I go with a jetboil.
Slo-go'en
10-23-2017, 21:34
It's still available here and there - mostly towns with an outfitter. Otherwise you'd have to find a Walmart and buy a quart bottle. Mostly it's getting scarce. No real demand for it anymore. Canister stoves have become the standard. Jet boils are popular, as are the screw on burner for use with common pots. Alcohol stoves are also common.
While an old white gas stove is still useful at times, it's not a good choice for a thru hike these days.
swjohnsey
10-23-2017, 21:41
My stoves burn car gas just fine, available nearly everywhere or pennies.
It's still available here and there - mostly towns with an outfitter. Otherwise you'd have to find a Walmart and buy a quart bottle. Mostly it's getting scarce. No real demand for it anymore. Canister stoves have become the standard. Jet boils are popular, as are the screw on burner for use with common pots. Alcohol stoves are also common.
While an old white gas stove is still useful at times, it's not a good choice for a thru hike these days.
Very real demand in the real world. Every Walmart, Hardware stores, RV Parks - including the one in Big Bend NP.
If the OP’s stove will accept a jet for kerosene that’s a viable alternative as well. Gas stations in the NC and TN mountains have kerosene pumps next to the gasoline pumps.
Not to mention the fact that a quart of white gas will last 3+ weeks with care.
But white gas stoves really are obsolete.
Wayne
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nsherry61
10-23-2017, 22:13
My stoves burn car gas just fine, available nearly everywhere or pennies.
Oh my gosh, yuck!! I'd try burning diesel before I ever burned car gas again in my multi-fuel stove - not that I use my multi-fuel stove any more. The level of noxious fumes and soot that emanates from car fuel flames in a multi-fuel stove is stifling. I'd rather go stoveless in winter than use car fuel.
HooKooDooKu
10-23-2017, 22:42
Oh my gosh, yuck!! I'd try burning diesel before I ever burned car gas again in my multi-fuel stove - not that I use my multi-fuel stove any more. The level of noxious fumes and soot that emanates from car fuel flames in a multi-fuel stove is stifling. I'd rather go stoveless in winter than use car fuel.
I've used gasoline in my MSR Shaker Jet stove without noxious fumes or soot... From what I understand, gasoline just doesn't burn as clean as white gas and the stove will dirty up faster.
I'd go with Slo's answer. I did plenty of AT miles with Svea and Whisperlite, but those days are long gone. I'm guessing 90% of AT long-distance hikers nowadays are using either canister or alcohol stoves.
Sure, you can get gallon cans at Walmart. That really doesn't help much.
All of the Walmart’s in my neighborhood stock 1 quart cans.
Stove choices doesn’t indicate obsolescence.
Never mind. I go in the opposite direction to do my backpacking.
Wayne
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All of the Walmart’s in my neighborhood stock 1 quart cans.
Stove choices doesn’t indicate obsolescence.
It's not about obsolescence. Sometimes you gotta go with the flow.
Time was when you could buy a few oz. of white gas at a hostel. Is that still the case? I doubt it, but I could be wrong.
cmoulder
10-24-2017, 08:07
Even a 1 qt can is a HUGE amount of fuel.
I've used WG quite a bit, but those stoves are really outdated for backpacking.
These days it's either alcohol (3-season) or canister (winter).
peakbagger
10-24-2017, 08:40
They still have a niche for winter camping, hard to beat the heat output. I do agree that for typical AT use canisters or alcohol stoves have pretty well taken over
Slo-go'en
10-24-2017, 10:47
I put no-lead into my SEVA 123 stove once. It promptly gummed it up and I had to rebuild it. Never again. Even so called "multi-fuel stoves have problems if you regularly use gasoline. Gasoline has additives which makes it good for powering a car, but not so much to cook on.
Feral Bill
10-24-2017, 12:14
As my Svea approaches 50 years of reliable service, I have no reason to change to a stove that burns much more expensive fuel, puts out far less heat, fails in cold weather, or any combination of the above.
DownEaster
10-24-2017, 12:28
Even a 1 qt can is a HUGE amount of fuel.
So if you can't buy by the ounce you purchase a quart, put what you need in your fuel bottle, and leave the remainder of the quart in a hiker box. You'll still end up ahead on cost compared to canister fuel. And some other hiker(s) who also couldn't buy a smaller quantity of white gas will be thankful.
cmoulder
10-24-2017, 12:37
As my Svea approaches 50 years of reliable service, I have no reason to change to a stove that burns much more expensive fuel, puts out far less heat, fails in cold weather, or any combination of the above.
You can refill isobutane canisters with cheap butane that costs about 75¢ for a 110g canister.
Butane has 21,000 BTUs per pound, naphtha has 20,000.
Using a copper heat shunt, a JetBoil works just fine beyond -20°F and is a far more efficient snow melter than an XGK.
I have a lot of experience with WG and extreme cold, and I will never go back to WG.
JB MiniMo with Sumo cup melting snow at 4°F.... no problem ;)40764
cmoulder
10-24-2017, 12:46
So if you can't buy by the ounce you purchase a quart, put what you need in your fuel bottle, and leave the remainder of the quart in a hiker box. You'll still end up ahead on cost compared to canister fuel. And some other hiker(s) who also couldn't buy a smaller quantity of white gas will be thankful.
How much WG is found in hiker boxes? (Or alcohol or canisters, for that matter? .... Just asking, I really don't know. Locally, I've seen partially used isobutane canisters in trash cans.)
Slo-go'en
10-24-2017, 14:26
How much WG is found in hiker boxes? (Or alcohol or canisters, for that matter? .... Just asking, I really don't know. Locally, I've seen partially used isobutane canisters in trash cans.)
There a plenty of nearly empty canisters in hiker boxes. No one wants to carry a nearly empty canister if they just bought a new one. If I don't need all the contents of a HEET bottle, I'll leave the rest in a hiker box and I've seen others do the same, so there is a chance you can fine alcohol in a hiker box.
I've never seen white gas left. But then, it's been years since I've seen anyone other then the occasional weekender use white gas. Like the guy I meet at Thomas Knob shelter trying to use a Whisper light and promptly nearly burnt down the shelter, and then set fire to a pack when he tried to kick the flaming fuel bottle out of the shelter and landed on another hikers pack! (lesson, don't over pump and make sure all the fittings are still tight!)
Kaptainkriz
10-24-2017, 17:51
I had forgotten this - hardly any reason to consider naphtha any more.
Butane has 21,000 BTUs per pound, naphtha has 20,000.
DownEaster
10-24-2017, 19:07
Butane has 21,000 BTUs per pound, naphtha has 20,000.
I found these figures in one source: Butane 21,221, Gasoline 20,930, which isn't much of a difference. Naphtha/white gasoline (before additives for automotive engines) is just the light distillate of whatever crude oil is processed, and will vary depending on that source. I've also found figures as low as 19,000 BTU/lb: quite a lot of variance indeed.
To my mind, the big differences between canister fuel and white gas are the cook times you can achieve (basically whatever fuel bottle size you're willing to carry) and cost (much cheaper). I like baking, and can do that with white gas but not dinky little canisters.
Analog_Kidd
10-24-2017, 19:44
Oh my gosh, yuck!! I'd try burning diesel before I ever burned car gas again in my multi-fuel stove - not that I use my multi-fuel stove any more. The level of noxious fumes and soot that emanates from car fuel flames in a multi-fuel stove is stifling. I'd rather go stoveless in winter than use car fuel.
One day, on a whim I decided to try gasoline in a soda can stove, just to see if it would work in a pinch, such as power going out. Trust me, this is a horrible idea. There were nasty, sooty flames shooting up about three feet tall. Worst of all i lit it in my workshop on my workbench. Had to grab the can and move it to the floor. I nearly burned the place down.
I hiked the entire AT with a Svea 123 and used unleaded gas probably 90% of the time without any problems. I cleaned it regularly and replaced the original orifice with a self-cleaning one. After I finished my AT hike I gave the Svea to my brother and bought a Coleman multi-fuel stove. I used that mostly with white gas but occasionally used unleaded. Still have the Coleman. I used a alcohol stove on my 2010 AT thru but since then I have gone stoveless.
cmoulder
10-24-2017, 20:10
All sorts of charts re BTU.... here's (http://donsnotes.com/science/chemistry/hydrocarbon_fuels.html) one I sometimes reference.
Yes there is significant variation, so I like to use those round numbers when that particular myth arises. A lot of people think naphtha has a big advantage when in fact it is butane that generally has a small advantage.
I don't bake so I can't address that issue.
bikebum1975
10-27-2017, 11:17
As my Svea approaches 50 years of reliable service, I have no reason to change to a stove that burns much more expensive fuel, puts out far less heat, fails in cold weather, or any combination of the above.
I habe a svea in the same age range took it out a few months ago had been sitting for better part of almost 2 years andit just sputtered right to life with the first light. Sure I have canister and alcohol stoves but I have zero reasons to give up my white gas stove they just work. The svea and Coleman may be a bit heavy to some but ease of use and less maintenance are hard to beat them
cmoulder
10-27-2017, 14:42
I.......The svea and Coleman may be a bit heavy to some but ease of use and less maintenance are hard to beat them
Easier to use and less maintenance than Pocket Rockets and Starlytes? :confused:
What's less than none, lol? :)
bikebum1975
10-27-2017, 14:52
Easier to use and less maintenance than Pocket Rockets and Starlytes? :confused:
What's less than none, lol? :)
I was referring to other white gas stoves
cmoulder
10-28-2017, 08:16
OK, misunderstanding on my part — I thought it was a continuation of the point in the previous sentence.
That said, I used XGKs and Whisperlites a bunch and never found them to require very much maintenance, nor to be all that hard to prime, which is something people seem to complain about quite a bit. Biggest two maintenance problems were pump flange breakage (although it could still be pumped) and scuffing/damage to the o-ring where the fuel tube inserts into the pump.
It is interesting to note, however, that both Whittaker Mountaineering and American Alpine Institute have switched over to canister from WG for expeditions.
colorado_rob
10-28-2017, 09:59
Just one more vote for canisters vs. white gas.
I've used white gas stoves for a couple of decades, first that dinosaur Svea (beautiful dinosaur though!), then both the XGK (AKA the Jet Airplane) and the Wisperlite. I still use the wisperlite in the winter and on long cold expeditions as my tests and calculations show that that system is slightly overall more weight efficient than a canister setup (separate argument).
But for 3-season, non snow melting long distance hiking, the Jetboil setup is amazingly simple and efficient. I even think that for heavy hot water users like myself (I love my morning coffee and evening tea), the Jetboil Sol Ti stove, without that silly cup thingie and "pot stabilizer" thingie, is the single most weight efficient system for hikes that are longer than 3-4 days, even more efficient than any alcohol setup. It's all about fuel efficiency, and the Jetboil is second to none.
There is zero maintenance with canister stoves, but as said, not much with wisperlites either, but bottom line, white gas setups are silly for AT hikes, though you still see them used, and they work for some. I do hate seeing all those burnt circles on picnic tables all over the place though, I sure wish people would practice priming their stoves before using them on the trail....
colorado_rob
10-28-2017, 10:10
Woops! I meant to say I've used WG stoves for FIVE decades, and canister stoves for a couple of decades.
Practice at home and don't be in a hurry. But....as we know, canister users are in a hurry or else they would be using alcohol as a fuel :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90hsmfBwkyU
cmoulder
10-28-2017, 13:15
I always thought of the XGK as an F-15 on full afterburners. Great way to wake up everybody at 4 am when it's -25°F. :sun
Dan, I'm almost always using alcohol these days, and really diggin' the XL-3 with the Sterno Inferno, as is Kevin B with his Sterno setup!
However, when I want to go crazy light I'll take the Esbit setup with Toaks 550. Hard to beat at 4.4oz, with fuel at .8oz per day.
I always thought of the XGK as an F-15 on full afterburners. Great way to wake up everybody at 4 am when it's -25°F. :sun
Dan, I'm almost always using alcohol these days, and really diggin' the XL-3 with the Sterno Inferno, as is Kevin B with his Sterno setup!
However, when I want to go crazy light I'll take the Esbit setup with Toaks 550. Hard to beat at 4.4oz, with fuel at .8oz per day.
That set-up with the 1 gram BGET and three 4 gram esbit tabs to boil 2 cups is the best way to go. Next spring I'll be making titanium BGET's with the bread pan corners.
Slo-go'en
10-28-2017, 21:13
As a veteran white gas stove user, I am happy to have moved on. I don't use my seven pound external pack any more either.
cmoulder
10-29-2017, 06:53
That set-up with the 1 gram BGET and three 4 gram esbit tabs to boil 2 cups is the best way to go. Next spring I'll be making titanium BGET's with the bread pan corners.
I'm trucking right along with the 5g Esbits... recently boiled 2 cups of 36deg water with 2 of 'em. I know you prefer the reduced odor of the 4g tabs but, like Col. Kilgore, I love the smell of Esbit in the morning! :D
I don’t use my carbide headlamp anymore . Usually bring a lighter instead of my bow and drill friction kit. Just started using bird feathers stuffed in fabric instead of bear fur blankets .
I don’t use my carbide headlamp anymore . Usually bring a lighter instead of my bow and drill friction kit. Just started using bird feathers stuffed in fabric instead of bear fur blankets .
Can you get fuel for that thing any more?
When I was a kid, I remember visiting my grandparents in the mountains of KY. My uncle had one of those head lamps. He showed me to drop a lump of carbide down a crawfish hole.....listen to it bubble for a bit, then drop in a match..... they were those white tipped strike anywhere ones....and quickly stomp the hole with your heel to seal off the hole......
hey they didn't have TV, what else are you gonna do?
cmoulder
10-29-2017, 09:02
Just last week I was checking the weather radar on my phone to see if I could use just my bivy or if maybe I should put up the tarp also.
Times have changed, eh?
Never had a carbide light, although I used one of these bad boys a lot. Remember the Petzl Zoom? Incandescent bulb and 4.5v pancake battery, had a spare bulb inside the housing. I got the very first Tikka to hit the market and never looked back.
40805
colorado_rob
10-29-2017, 09:33
I used a carbide lamp spelunking in southern Indiana the early 70's.... yikes! Gotta be really careful with carbide (technically, Calcium Carbide).... Do NOT keep some in your pocket then wade through some water....
Ramble all you want on white gas stoves being "archaic", they are not, and are probably still the #1 type of stove used on mountaineering expeditions, though at pointed out below, canister stoves are becoming very popular for larger groups.
But still, white gas as a fuel on AT hikes (or other long hikes) is indeed a significantly less efficient option, though you still see a lot of them out there. To each his own!
Hikes in Rain
10-29-2017, 09:58
Can you get fuel for that thing any more?
To my surprise, you can. And some other fun toys to use it in. http://cheapcarbide.com/
I don’t use my carbide headlamp anymore . Usually bring a lighter instead of my bow and drill friction kit. Just started using bird feathers stuffed in fabric instead of bear fur blankets .
Carbide fueled stove:
40808
Carbide fueled stove:
40808
Do you have them in ti and in stock ? :0) ha ha