Permethrin // Every $ Counts!!!!!

[mbqhappy]

I plan to NOBO Thru-hike the AT in mid Mar 2018. At the risk of being classified as cheap...thinking along the lines of every $ savings count.

Given your AT trail experiences during the Mar-Apr period and the weather being on avg. mild / cold and bugs are not likely to be out during this period.

Would you still go ahead with the Permethrin gear & clothing treatment prior to the start of the hike? Or Would you skip this 1st application until the last part of April / early May?

On another related topic: Applying the Permethrin while on the AT. Did you applied it while camping? or On a zero day in town?

[egilbe]

I soak my clothes a couple times each summer a couple months apart. I never see ticks anymore. Since it has to dry to bond to clothing, I wouldn't do it on the trail, your clothes will rarely have a chance to dry.

[Hikingjim]

I plan to NOBO Thru-hike the AT in mid Mar 2018. At the risk of being classified as cheap...thinking along the lines of every $ savings count.

Given your AT trail experiences during the Mar-Apr period and the weather being on avg. mild / cold and bugs are not likely to be out during this period.

Would you still go ahead with the Permethrin gear & clothing treatment prior to the start of the hike? Or Would you skip this 1st application until the last part of April / early May?

On another related topic: Applying the Permethrin while on the AT. Did you applied it while camping? or On a zero day in town?

I wouldn't cheap out on that and would do it out of the gate. It could be a non-issue, but tick range and prevalence seems to keep expanding

As for application, you do it in town. You don't bring the stuff with you. It takes 2-4+ hours to dry, depending on conditions, and you don't want to cart that stuff around

[Christoph]

I sprayed all of my clothing, bag, pack, and tent with the Sawyer stuff before I headed out and again in Pa. Didn't have one tick on me the entire trip. Not sure if that actually helped or if I just got lucky. :)

[Slo-go'en]

I'd wait until I got into Virginia. Marion would be a good place as there is a Walmart there you can buy the Saywer spray. Do the treatment in town so you can dispose of the empty bottle. Treat your pants, socks, shoes and your pack. The spray on treatment only lasts for about 6 weeks, so you have to renew every so often. Would be a good idea to retreat when you get into PA. The soak treatment lasts a bit longer, but if you treated your clothes in March, you'd have to do it again anyway when you got into the danger area of central VA.

[colorado_rob]

I plan to NOBO Thru-hike the AT in mid Mar 2018. At the risk of being classified as cheap...thinking along the lines of every $ savings count.

Given your AT trail experiences during the Mar-Apr period and the weather being on avg. mild / cold and bugs are not likely to be out during this period.

Would you still go ahead with the Permethrin gear & clothing treatment prior to the start of the hike? Or Would you skip this 1st application until the last part of April / early May?

On another related topic: Applying the Permethrin while on the AT. Did you applied it while camping? or On a zero day in town? I did in fact not treat my clothes until mid-May, never had any bug/tick issues whatsoever in March and April before permethrin, nor after that after later applying the Permethrin (in town, easy-peasy) during the summer and fall.

FWIW, I only use the stuff on my lower pant legs, shirt sleeves, shirt neck area, hat (ball cap type), socks and underwear. I don't do this to save money or product, I just think that provides adequate coverage of the body and "critical parts" (the underwear thing!).

[saltysack]

I’ve yet to see a tick or any biting bugs between October and April on the southern AT...


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[mbqhappy]

Thanks everyone for your quick feedback...I really appreciate learning from your experiences on the AT Trail....

[Rain Man]

You do know you can buy it online, concentrated, and dilute yourself to .5% (one-half of one percent) and soak/spray very cheaply?

Just make sure to get odorless, water based version intended for in-home use.

[swisscross]

I'd wait until I got into Virginia. Marion would be a good place as there is a Walmart there you can buy the Saywer spray. Do the treatment in town so you can dispose of the empty bottle. Treat your pants, socks, shoes and your pack. The spray on treatment only lasts for about 6 weeks, so you have to renew every so often. Would be a good idea to retreat when you get into PA. The soak treatment lasts a bit longer, but if you treated your clothes in March, you'd have to do it again anyway when you got into the danger area of central VA.

This is horrid advice. We DO have Lyme in the south. Treat your clothing when ever possible though out your journey.

[JC13]

I'm surprised no one mentioned that you can send it off and have your gear treated. The benefit is with that method it lasts 60 washes or something like that. Unless you are going into town/hostel more than once a week, it will last you the entirety of the thru hike. The military uses this method or one similar.

[DownEaster]

I'm surprised no one mentioned that you can send it off and have your gear treated. The benefit is with that method it lasts 60 washes or something like that. Unless you are going into town/hostel more than once a week, it will last you the entirety of the thru hike.
You don't need to go into town to wash your clothes. I'm bringing two pairs of socks, two pairs of underwear, and two T-shirts so I can hand wash one of each (with Dr. Bronner's soap) and hang them on my pack to dry while I'm wearing the other set. So everything gets washed every other day, and even permethrin treatment good for 60 washes will be gone in 4 months.

[Elaikases]

I plan to NOBO Thru-hike the AT in mid Mar 2018. At the risk of being classified as cheap...thinking along the lines of every $ savings count.

Given your AT trail experiences during the Mar-Apr period and the weather being on avg. mild / cold and bugs are not likely to be out during this period.

Would you still go ahead with the Permethrin gear & clothing treatment prior to the start of the hike? Or Would you skip this 1st application until the last part of April / early May?

On another related topic: Applying the Permethrin while on the AT. Did you applied it while camping? or On a zero day in town?

I paid for the treatment. They have an "all you can stuff in a sack" deal (they provide the mailing sack) and the ATC has a discount code. It is supposed to last the life of the gear.

[JC13]

You don't need to go into town to wash your clothes. I'm bringing two pairs of socks, two pairs of underwear, and two T-shirts so I can hand wash one of each (with Dr. Bronner's soap) and hang them on my pack to dry while I'm wearing the other set. So everything gets washed every other day, and even permethrin treatment good for 60 washes will be gone in 4 months.As they say, HYOH. I only wash once a week when we are out.

[egilbe]

You don't need to go into town to wash your clothes. I'm bringing two pairs of socks, two pairs of underwear, and two T-shirts so I can hand wash one of each (with Dr. Bronner's soap) and hang them on my pack to dry while I'm wearing the other set. So everything gets washed every other day, and even permethrin treatment good for 60 washes will be gone in 4 months.

What's going to actually happen is you are wearing one set of wet clothes and carrying one set of wet clothes.

[Slo-go'en]

This is horrid advice. We DO have Lyme in the south. Treat your clothing when ever possible though out your journey.

Maybe, but the Lyme disease distribution maps show a very small number of incidents south of central Virginia. And some of those reported cases could be from people traveling back from high risk areas. The risk along the AT between GA and VA, especially in the early spring is very, very low.

Also keep in mind that Lyme is most prevalent where there are large numbers of deer, such as SNP and PA. It has been found that reducing deer populations in trouble areas significantly reduces the incidences of Lyme. The most likely place to pick up a deer tick is actually in suburban backyards, which provide good tick habitat.

I believe those who "stealth camp" off the trail in high risk areas are the most likely to find a deer tick. Staying on the trail and camping at well used, designated spots away from tall grass, low bushes or lots of leaf litter will significantly reduce the risk and that goes for all ticks, not just the Lyme carriers.

[Cheyou]

What rain man said . Dip clothing last longer and cheaper .

[egilbe]

Deer ticks aren't only on deer. Their primary vector is white-footed deer mice, not deer. Kill off the mice population and deer ticks drop off dramatically.

[Cheyou]

Deer ticks aren't only on deer. Their primary vector is white-footed deer mice, not deer. Kill off the mice population and deer ticks drop off dramatically.


So stay away from shelters or bring a cat with you . ;0)

[Martzy13]

I started this year on March 5th in Georgia with the idea of reapplying Permetherin every 500 miles. I did apply before heading out, but looking back there was not really a need for it. It's still too cold for ticks to be out and about, or that was my experience. I didn't see a tick until mid-Virginia, maybe Shenandoah?

[MtDoraDave]

I bought the concentrate and dunk my clothes, then let them dry and air out for two to three days (the concentrate smells quite strong) and when I went out for a week last June, not only did I not have any trouble with ticks, but no other insects.

I don't treat the clothes with permethrine for the purpose of general insect repellent, but it seems to work quite well for that, too.

There are cases of lyme disease in Florida, and I know people who have had lyme and don't wish to experience it first hand - so I treat. Don't wait.

[Offshore]

Just send the clothing that you would have treated to InsectShield and let them treat it and you'll be done. It's good for 70 washings, so you can begin the trail with the benefit of permethrin protection and never have to worry about when and where to treat or the availability of permethrin on the hike.

It runs about $10/garment, but they have discounts as you add more items and they even a fixed price for all you can fit in a box. If you do the math, ts priced competitively with using Sawyer spray according to directions (as to the frequency and amount) and a lot more convenent. I won't even consider buying the agricultural permethrin concentrates and diluting down. Many have petroleum bases which leave your clothing with a lingering odor, even after drying, and it's a pain in the neck to dunk and dry at home, much less the trail. Living in the mid-Atlantic, I view permethrin treatment as a health and safety item that I don't mind paying for. A thru hike is not cheap and there are other areas where corners that can be cut if the budget is that tight.

https://www.insectshield.com/ISYOC.aspx

[Greenlight]

I'm a firm advocate of HYOH, and good luck with that, but for me, I think I'll wash my clothes in town. I don't think I'd tolerate the hassle, and definitely, don't want to leave that environmental impact along the trail. Not that it's much, but even Doc Bronner's has an impact.


You don't need to go into town to wash your clothes. I'm bringing two pairs of socks, two pairs of underwear, and two T-shirts so I can hand wash one of each (with Dr. Bronner's soap) and hang them on my pack to dry while I'm wearing the other set. So everything gets washed every other day, and even permethrin treatment good for 60 washes will be gone in 4 months.

[Offshore]

You don't need to go into town to wash your clothes. I'm bringing two pairs of socks, two pairs of underwear, and two T-shirts so I can hand wash one of each (with Dr. Bronner's soap) and hang them on my pack to dry while I'm wearing the other set. So everything gets washed every other day, and even permethrin treatment good for 60 washes will be gone in 4 months.

Someone that does laundry every day and washes each item of clothing every other day is the exception, rather than the rule. Treating with InsectShield will work for the vast majority of typical thru hikers. Good luck with the laundry plan, though. It sounds easy in the planning stage, but I predict that once you get on trail the plan of doing laundry on a daily basis isn't going to last very long.

[Maineiac64]

I paid for the treatment. They have an "all you can stuff in a sack" deal (they provide the mailing sack) and the ATC has a discount code. It is supposed to last the life of the gear.
do you have more details available? thanks in advance.

[Berserker]

Also keep in mind that Lyme is most prevalent where there are large numbers of deer, such as SNP and PA. It has been found that reducing deer populations in trouble areas significantly reduces the incidences of Lyme. The most likely place to pick up a deer tick is actually in suburban backyards, which provide good tick habitat.

I believe those who "stealth camp" off the trail in high risk areas are the most likely to find a deer tick. Staying on the trail and camping at well used, designated spots away from tall grass, low bushes or lots of leaf litter will significantly reduce the risk and that goes for all ticks, not just the Lyme carriers.
This is good advice, and I'm going to piggy back off of it. The best way I have found to keep from getting ticks on me is to stay out of long grass/brush, and to not sit or lay directly in leaf litter. Over the years I have hiked most of the AT, a bunch of local stuff in VA & NC, and I walk/run regularly in wooded areas for exercise, and I have yet (yet being the key word of course) to find a black legged (aka "deer") tick on me. I have had many Lone Star ticks on me, but they came from the local parks where it's a small wooded area surrounded by housing developments with lots of deer.

So the best thing is prevention. I see lots of people when I hike the AT sitting and/or laying in the leaves for breaks, and this is likely one of the primary ways people are getting black legged ticks on them. Stay away from direct contact with the leaves...instead use a piece of plastic to sit on, or sit on a log or rock. If going through long grass or brush check your legs periodically for the little buggers as you'll catch them trying to crawl up your legs before they make it somewhere where they are harder to find. Note that typically April through May is the worst time for the ticks.

I'm not saying not to use permitherin or some other bug deterrent as my advice above isn't the be all end all way of handling ticks, but prevention has worked pretty dang well in my experience.

[Offshore]

do you have more details available? thanks in advance.

https://www.insectshield.com/ISYOC.aspx

[Offshore]

This is good advice, and I'm going to piggy back off of it. The best way I have found to keep from getting ticks on me is to stay out of long grass/brush, and to not sit or lay directly in leaf litter. Over the years I have hiked most of the AT, a bunch of local stuff in VA & NC, and I walk/run regularly in wooded areas for exercise, and I have yet (yet being the key word of course) to find a black legged (aka "deer") tick on me. I have had many Lone Star ticks on me, but they came from the local parks where it's a small wooded area surrounded by housing developments with lots of deer.

So the best thing is prevention. I see lots of people when I hike the AT sitting and/or laying in the leaves for breaks, and this is likely one of the primary ways people are getting black legged ticks on them. Stay away from direct contact with the leaves...instead use a piece of plastic to sit on, or sit on a log or rock. If going through long grass or brush check your legs periodically for the little buggers as you'll catch them trying to crawl up your legs before they make it somewhere where they are harder to find. Note that typically April through May is the worst time for the ticks.

I'm not saying not to use permitherin or some other bug deterrent as my advice above isn't the be all end all way of handling ticks, but prevention has worked pretty dang well in my experience.

Good tips, but the black legged ticks are so small that the are really, really easy to miss. I treat my clothing, Z-seat, trekking pole straps, and pack. Many times, people will put their packs or poles down and put them back on without thinking of what may have jumped on the pack for a ride. Probably yhe best info for tick information in the NE is the University of Rhode Island http://tickencounter.org/

[Ethesis]

do you have more details available? thanks in advance.

https://www.insectshield.com/EZ-Packs-P442.aspx

that is the link.

[Kaptainkriz]

I would not skimp on deterring ticks. Deer ticks are not the only culprits. The Lone Star Tick is more of a southern thing, but seems to be spreading northward. I contracted Alpha Gal in SNP...not fun.