View Full Version : Wax fire starters
So after wasting several minutes with the worthless search function here, I'm reduced to posting.
And of course I googled so no need to send me there.
While on my last hike I was gifted a egg carton wax fire starter. It worked really well, weighted nothing and is obviously cheap to make. So I just got back from the local farm store where I got a box of Gulf canning wax and at checkout was asked if I was canning. I replied fire starters using egg cartons and she asked if I was adding saw dust.
So thats the main question, additives?
I saw lint, saw dust, coffee grounds, cotton balls, wicks, shredded paper all mentioned but only encouragement to experiment rather can comparisons of merit/effects/cautions for additives.
I was thinking adding magnesium might be a good way to go as it burns seriously hot, hell I could basically go with wax fired thermite. I'm a big enough packrat I actually save some of my lathe/mill tailings so no cost to me.
If I head out next weekend, I'm likely to want a fire where ever possible and have ditched my wood burning stove until I get a Kiwiz as mine weights a full pound and is carried as a backup anyway(now you know why I had 40lbs on my back last time). Stove is a Dpower as I like to use a wood stove as a wind break and way to keep more heat going into the pan when using gas. I've used the wood stove many times but the soot keeps me coming back to gas convenience.
Anyway, since I'll be carrying several starters, second question is do people also cook with wax? if so how much to boil a liter?
We've made them several times with the Scout troop as a fundraising item and I believe that's all they used (the wax and sawdust).
Although several of those other items (lint, cotton balls, paper) are often used in other fire starters, so it would make sense those would work as well.
scrabbler
10-30-2017, 12:53
Add lighter fluid to the equation.
https://www.google.com/patents/US9127840
Nice, I wonder if it makes the wax more "oily", I would like to be able to just throw starters into a pack(probably bad on a 100*day).
Old Hiker
10-30-2017, 13:27
1 foot lengths of jute twine (hardware store) dipped into melted wax (old candles) and allowed to dry. Double dip if you want, the extra wax just breaks off in the zip-loc bag.
I carried about 3 feet max in 2016 and used it 3 times, only using about 6 inches each time.
Up Nawth - birch bark. Trust me.
ive been making these egg carton fire starters for close to 40 years now.....
(just made a batch in march of 13 dozen of them)...
they are easy and cheap to make and will last about 45 minutes in a burn.....
i get paper egg cartons from my parents...........my dad gets me the sawdust from a vo tech shop class...........and he also gets leftover candles from his church....
basically, just costs me my time and some electricity to power a hot plate burner.....
fill egg carton with saw dust........overfill it a little..
melt wax and pour on it........
it will absorb alot so having a good supply of wax is essential....
then let them dry and harden and they are ready to use......
I would like to be able to just throw starters into a pack(probably bad on a 100*day)
i just put the one or two i need for a weekend in a ziplock bag and they are ready to go.......
Feral Bill
10-30-2017, 14:53
Let's all melt the wax in a double boiler, shall we?
Your search skills need help.
I entered “egg carton fire starters” and GOOGLE returned pages of useful instructions in half a nano second.
Wayne
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I have a $59 microwave in my shop for just such jobs, likely the safest other than an induction cook top which I have too.
cmoulder
10-30-2017, 15:05
I use petroleum jelly cotton balls (PJCB).
Dip a cotton ball about halfway into melted Vaseline. Let it cool and wrap it in a small square of waxed paper, like saltwater taffy. Put 'em in ziploc.
Nice thing here is that when you unwrap them you pull up some dry cotton fibers which are easily ignited with a ferro rod.
4081840819
Let's all melt the wax in a double boiler, shall we?
meh..........
i use one pot that i picked up for a quarter at goodwill and it works just fine....
non stick pot, maybe a quart size---solely dedicated to melting wax for my firestarters...
havent had an issue yet....
Let me try again, using capital letters
I GOOGLED THIS and watched 6 videos and went to several sites
I saw lint, saw dust, coffee grounds, cotton balls, wicks, shredded paper all mentioned but only ENCOURAGEMENT TO EXPERIMENT RATHER THAN COMPARISONS OF MERIT/EFFECTS/CAUTIONS FOR ADDITIVES
THAT IS THE INFO I'M ASKING ABOUT
Your search skills need help.
I entered “egg carton fire starters” and GOOGLE returned pages of useful instructions in half a nano second.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You’re overthinking it.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
While potentially messy, I do like the idea(which I've seen before) especially from the point of using a striker vs carrying a lighter for a wax starter(or lighting a twig etc off my piezo ignited stove).
CRS strikes again as I already have a pound tub of vasoline I'll never use up. The wax I bought today was $7, oh well, firestarters for life between the two...fortunately camp fires will figure large in my future as we purchased a travel trailer to visit every park/area we can that offers mountain biking. In 1.5 years we will be on the road full time and hitting as many as possible till then.
I presume you just open the waxed paper and leave it on the paper, burning it all. How do they last(burn time) vs wax?
I use petroleum jelly cotton balls (PJCB).
Dip a cotton ball about halfway into melted Vaseline. Let it cool and wrap it in a small square of waxed paper, like saltwater taffy.
Put 'em in ziploc.
Nice thing here is that when you unwrap them you pull up some dry cotton fibers which are easily ignited with a ferro rod.
4081840819
My apologies if you missed my saying this before- my middle name is "Overthink" , like the Geico commercials "its what you do" when you play with machines all your life. Theres almost always a better way to do something, I like to find them.
You’re overthinking it.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The wax I bought today was $7, oh well,
find a church that uses candles in their services and have them set you aside the ones that are not fully burnt down.....
cmoulder
10-30-2017, 15:38
These typically burn about 5-6 minutes.
The egg carton sawdust wax ones last a lot longer, as mentioned above, but IME a well prepped stack of twigs, sticks, etc does not require more than a few minutes anyway.
The waxed paper is just a bonus flammable!
Extra: another good use for these is lighting Esbit tabs, which can be hard to start sometimes, wasting a lot of Bic fuel. You can tear off a tiny bit of the PJCB and stick it directly to the Esbit tab to light it.
THAT IS THE INFO I'M ASKING ABOUT
see post #6....
Mini Babycheese. The cellophane wrapping and wax covering the cheese can be used as fire starters. Much better use of the packaging than throwing them in the trash.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BabyBel Cheese.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The egg carton sawdust wax ones last a lot longer, as mentioned above, but IME a well prepped stack of twigs, sticks, etc does not require more than a few minutes anyway.
the benefit of the longer burn time, is if the wood is wet.........
but, yeah.......dry wood----my fire is going good long before the fire starter is burnt up.....
cmoulder
10-30-2017, 16:26
I suppose you could also break (or cut) up the wax ones if such a long burn time is not needed.
Many ways to skin this cat!
Many ways to skin this cat!
ive never used a cat to start a fire.........
guess theres always a first.....
cmoulder
10-30-2017, 17:23
ive never used a cat to start a fire.........
guess theres always a first.....
I think it's in this book — 101 Uses for a Dead Cat (https://www.amazon.com/101-Uses-Dead-Simon-Bond/dp/0517545160)! :D
scrabbler
10-30-2017, 17:24
Nice, I wonder if it makes the wax more "oily", I would like to be able to just throw starters into a pack(probably bad on a 100*day).
Pathfinder (patent holder) sells them $6 for 6 in a round tin. I was given some as a gift, and they were not oily.
I made a batch following the directions in the patent, and made 50 of them for about $4. They are a little oily and slight smell of the lighter fluid for about a month, then they stop smelling and are dry like you get from the Pathfinder shop.
They work really well.
great info Scrabbler, reading the patent it seem to say 1-3 lbs wax but then for the lighter fluid 14-15.5oz. You recall your mixture? I'm sure its not critical but if I add too much fluid I'd need to add more wax, just dont need liquid wax :D
Slo-go'en
10-30-2017, 20:31
SO, once they don't smell like lighter fluid anymore, doesn't that mean all the lighter fluid has evaporated out?
Pathfinder (patent holder) sells them $6 for 6 in a round tin. I was given some as a gift, and they were not oily.
I made a batch following the directions in the patent, and made 50 of them for about $4. They are a little oily and slight smell of the lighter fluid for about a month, then they stop smelling and are dry like you get from the Pathfinder shop.
They work really well.
You could sub-out the lighter fluid for lamp oil. WAAAY less volatile. Just as combustible.
scrabbler
10-30-2017, 21:04
I used the Gulf canning wax, which comes in a 16oz package. I only used half (maybe only a quarter, not sure) the package to make 50 discs. Just reduce the ratios appropriately so that everything is proportional to the original recipe. I also used a red crayon if that matters :-) Crayon is not necessary, but it's fun to make them colored.
After they have "dried" when you break them open you can still smell the lighter fluid, so some is still remaining sealed in the discs.
EDIT: The patent says 1lb wax, 15.5oz lighter fluid. I followed that ratio. A little makes a lot, I'm pretty sure I only used 4oz wax, and "a little less than" 4oz of charcoal lighter fluid, and one red crayon.
scrabbler
10-30-2017, 21:07
You could sub-out the lighter fluid for lamp oil. WAAAY less volatile. Just as combustible.
Are you sure about the combustibility? Why dont they use it in lighters?
Are you sure about the combustibility? Why dont they use it in lighters?Oh I am sure. Lamp oil is burned, in lamps, for light.
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rocketsocks
10-30-2017, 22:51
Belly lint works great, stinks like hell but burns like hell fire.
scrabbler
10-31-2017, 00:37
Oh I am sure. Lamp oil is burned, in lamps, for light.
The combustion temperature of lamp oil is almost twice that of lighter fluid. Yes, both burn, but it's easier to start lighter fluid burning.
psyculman
10-31-2017, 05:23
"Lamp oil" would that just be clear kerosene?
The combustion temperature of lamp oil is almost twice that of lighter fluid. Yes, both burn, but it's easier to start lighter fluid burning.
I'm not familiar with the combustion temperatures of either. Hard to believe that is almost twice. Could you share them?
Both start easily with a lighter or match.
"Lamp oil" would that just be clear kerosene?
Not exactly.
http://zenstoves.net/Fuels.htm
http://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lamp-Parts/Lantern-Oil.htm apparently not the same thing but cetainly will work
"Lamp oil" would that just be clear kerosene?
Thanks again, after reloading the page I was able to scroll down to the first manufacturing section. What source for the discs did you use?
I'm thinking I might go with 3 sizes of starters: using a piece of a Xmas tree stand(the cotton ball material type) wrap to make a sheet of the starters then use a 1/2-3/4" hole punch to disks for starting a wood stove, full size ones for campfires on the trail and egg crate large ones for RV camp fires.
My experience with RV camping is small kindling is often hard to come by at the busier locations so a the jumbo size starters could be used to directly start small piece chopped off logs- I carry a hatchet to split logs. I'm tired of carrying and using lighter fluid(even carry some in my pack, but wont now that I can use these) with the risk of spilling in my van or RV.
I used the Gulf canning wax, which comes in a 16oz package. I only used half (maybe only a quarter, not sure) the package to make 50 discs. Just reduce the ratios appropriately so that everything is proportional to the original recipe. I also used a red crayon if that matters :-) Crayon is not necessary, but it's fun to make them colored.
After they have "dried" when you break them open you can still smell the lighter fluid, so some is still remaining sealed in the discs.
EDIT: The patent says 1lb wax, 15.5oz lighter fluid. I followed that ratio. A little makes a lot, I'm pretty sure I only used 4oz wax, and "a little less than" 4oz of charcoal lighter fluid, and one red crayon.
I just use dryer lint. Never needed a fire when I was hiking, only when car-camping and they are great for starting a fire. When hiking, I use a canister stove to cook or hear up water. Much easier than trying to start a fire.
So after wasting several minutes with the worthless search function here, I'm reduced to posting.
And of course I googled so no need to send me there.
While on my last hike I was gifted a egg carton wax fire starter. It worked really well, weighted nothing and is obviously cheap to make. So I just got back from the local farm store where I got a box of Gulf canning wax and at checkout was asked if I was canning. I replied fire starters using egg cartons and she asked if I was adding saw dust.
So thats the main question, additives?
I saw lint, saw dust, coffee grounds, cotton balls, wicks, shredded paper all mentioned but only encouragement to experiment rather can comparisons of merit/effects/cautions for additives.
I was thinking adding magnesium might be a good way to go as it burns seriously hot, hell I could basically go with wax fired thermite. I'm a big enough packrat I actually save some of my lathe/mill tailings so no cost to me.
If I head out next weekend, I'm likely to want a fire where ever possible and have ditched my wood burning stove until I get a Kiwiz as mine weights a full pound and is carried as a backup anyway(now you know why I had 40lbs on my back last time). Stove is a Dpower as I like to use a wood stove as a wind break and way to keep more heat going into the pan when using gas. I've used the wood stove many times but the soot keeps me coming back to gas convenience.
Anyway, since I'll be carrying several starters, second question is do people also cook with wax? if so how much to boil a liter?
I melt wax in a pan on the stove, and then dip cotton balls in the wax and set them out to cool. I then use a sharp knife to slice the wax-cotton balls into 1/8" to 1/4" thick pieces. These work great for me to get a fire going in my FireFly wood stove or a regular campfire in a fire ring. I usually just need one little slice, occasionally two if I'm lazy. Very light and compact. Most people's fire starters are way bigger and heavier than you actually need to start a fire.
scrabbler
10-31-2017, 14:47
When I make the discs, I just use cotton makeup removal pads you find in the cosmetics section of places like Walmart. They come in bags of around 100 or so.
When time to use them, you can rip them into smaller pieces, no need to use the whole thing. Also easier to light when torn a bit.
Excellent info, I made my first batch of egg crate saw dust filled starters and a 5" square of Xmas tree cotton only ones which should be ready to cut into mini disks. Turns out it was a good choice as I will likely soon have a Kiwiz Firefly to fire up. Very surprised that adding the lighter fluid didnt cause a lot of evaporation or smell. I did find microwaves dont do much for wax and my induction stove produced instant smoke at its lowest setting of 175*. Regular ceramic cooktop worked fine with good control.
I use an old 16 oz soup can to melt the wax. Boil water in a pan with the soup can sitting in it. Dnt de so much water that the can floats with the bar of wax in it. Never gets too hot, no worries about flaming wax burning down the house. Use my pot gripper to pour the wax into the egg carton. Egg carton sits on a piece of parchment paper so I dont get wax all over the countertops.
Examining the cooled wax, the lighter fluid makes the wax a lot softer and touching it leaves fluid on the finger. Going to cool them to 50 deg, outside the house and see if I can punch out disks or will have to cut squares out. My ratio was 4oz Gulf wax(the cube is predivided into 1/4s) and 3 fl. oz of Charcoal light fluid.
Couldn't you just use a small candle (like a votive)? I mean if you want to use wax. Seems like a lot of trouble to melt the wax, and clean the pan. You can reuse and when the wick is no good anymore you could use the wax.
rocketsocks
10-31-2017, 18:34
Couldn't you just use a small candle (like a votive)? I mean if you want to use wax. Seems like a lot of trouble to melt the wax, and clean the pan. You can reuse and when the wick is no good anymore you could use the wax.I use an old soda with the top cut off to melt wax, just chuck it.
Hikes in Rain
10-31-2017, 20:06
I use the can't-blow-them-out birthday candles for fire starters. Works even in wind. :)
rocketsocks
10-31-2017, 20:45
I use the can't-blow-them-out birthday candles for fire starters. Works even in wind. :)ooh, I like that idea!
scrabbler
10-31-2017, 22:08
I use the can't-blow-them-out birthday candles for fire starters. Works even in wind. :)
Yeah thats a great idea if all you care about is a half inch flame that wont go out. That works excellent if you have a really good supply of tinder. But the petroleum cotton balls, and other waxed methods throw some really big flames that eliminates the need for finer tinder.
Now you know why I mentioned using magnesium in the wax...in my case I have contacts at the local airport and can likely get a rim or other magnesium components as non airworthy scrap for the asking.
I use the can't-blow-them-out birthday candles for fire starters. Works even in wind. :)