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View Full Version : Why don't more WB members support WB with a donation?



Maineiac64
11-03-2017, 11:31
I find this forum invaluable for learning about gear, trails, techniques, etc. I see many members here that are very active and contributing on a very regular basis yet there doesn't seem to be a high percentage of people that donate to help WB and the AT. The lowest level is only $10, less than $1/month. It is not a difficult process to make the donation and the financial levels seem reasonable. Interested to hear your thoughts.

bigcranky
11-03-2017, 11:35
I think it's similar to any online product or app, maybe 10% of the users will pay for it if it's voluntary. But if you make everybody pay, you won't get enough members to keep the community thriving.

Uriah
11-03-2017, 11:44
I donated, but won't be in the future since I think my funds should be directed toward causes like the Sierra Club, the Nature Conservancy, and such. WB isn't a cause, of course, but it's a good site worthy of some donations.

Feral Bill
11-03-2017, 11:45
That $10 could be saving a quarter of an ounce in pack weight instead.

illabelle
11-03-2017, 11:53
I donate so I can edit my posts.

Crossup
11-03-2017, 12:41
After nearly 30 years of using/making BBS and forums the functionality of this one is one of the worst I've used, in fact only the quality of information keeps me here. Preventing editing as the carrot to encourage contributing only decreases the quality of the site and experience. I've never seen that tactic at any other forum. Unfortunately only the administrators can fix whats wrong and my opinion and that of the users here isnt going to provide a good answer as to what is needed to be changed- my thought would be to leave those decisions to paying users who would be given the options to configure virtually every aspect of how it works to they're own liking. Free users would be allowed to edit but have to suffer with things as they are. Alternatively, limit free posting to sub forums excepting selling/buying/reviewing for example.

Crossup
11-03-2017, 12:49
I should add, the genius who came up with no editing probably does not realized how much extra band width use is caused by having to double proof read a post and by those who are force to reread posts missing a word or two to make sense of it from context.

chknfngrs
11-03-2017, 12:53
Editing is for sissies. I don’t donate because this is the internet.

rocketsocks
11-03-2017, 17:46
There’s a myriad of reasons why a person may choose not to pony up or not, none of which is anybody’s business.

rocketsocks
11-03-2017, 17:47
But not for nothing, support comes in many forms, not always monetary.

Greenlight
11-03-2017, 19:55
I'm with you. I've only been here for over a year, and I've contributed money twice, when the collection plate went through the congregation. But I'm a firm believer that if you love something, you throw money at it. I love WB. I love hiking. I love y'all...in a humanistic, brotherly sort of way. $10 or $20 doesn't kill my budget most weeks, and it defrays the cost. The internet isn't free, no matter what you may have heard.


I find this forum invaluable for learning about gear, trails, techniques, etc. I see many members here that are very active and contributing on a very regular basis yet there doesn't seem to be a high percentage of people that donate to help WB and the AT. The lowest level is only $10, less than $1/month. It is not a difficult process to make the donation and the financial levels seem reasonable. Interested to hear your thoughts.

KCNC
11-03-2017, 20:15
I donate so I can edit my posts.

I donate because I know the fees involved for domain registration and hosting. Being able to edit my posts is a nice fringe benefit. :-) I've gotten tremendous value per dollar and won't hesitate to contribute in the future should the forums continue to be helpful.

As a user interface snob I'm not thrilled with the functionality or appearance, but it serves the purpose and no one is forcing me to participate, so I curse under my breath a little and get on with things.

KCNC
11-03-2017, 20:18
There’s a myriad of reasons why a person may choose not to pony up or not, none of which is anybody’s business.


Well, given your location, it's questionable if you're fit to serve or not.

Have you rehabilitated yourself?

:banana

JC13
11-03-2017, 20:43
The first time I looked at donating it wasn't obvious you could use PayPal despite it being mentioned. I saw the mail a check/money order information and closed the window. Now that I actually messed around with it, I probably will donate.

TLDR: The ability to pay with PayPal needs to be more prominent on the page.

rocketsocks
11-03-2017, 20:48
Well, given your location, it's questionable if you're fit to serve or not.

Have you rehabilitated yourself?

:banana
I refuse to answer on the grinds I may ruminate myself.

rocketsocks
11-03-2017, 20:51
Also, Pretty sure just cause it dosent say donating member up top, dosent mean the person is not a donating member.

Maineiac64
11-03-2017, 21:09
Also, Pretty sure just cause it dosent say donating member up top, dosent mean the person is not a donating member.
Do you know someone who is donating that doesn't have the donating designation?

Old Hiker
11-03-2017, 21:14
Well, given your location, it's questionable if you're fit to serve or not.

Have you rehabilitated yourself?

:banana

I went over to the sergeant.
Said, "Sergeant, you got a lot of god-damned
Gall to ask me if I've rehabilitated myself!

rickb
11-04-2017, 06:17
Do you know someone who is donating that doesn't have the donating designation?

There are probably a lot of us.

In my case I elected to create a “Custom User Title” under my name to share a bit more about myself, rather than keep the Donating Member designation.

If someone is using a custom avatar, that confirms they donated at some point — I think. Of course donating members — like yourself — can use a stock avatar.

That said, while WB will send out reminders to donate and renew your ability to edit posts, I think the custom Avitar is for life.


I will bet a big reason a lot of people don’t donate is that a physical check is required. Hardly use those anymore, much less through the mail.

capehiker
11-04-2017, 06:18
I was a member of Trailplace, and then a member of the interim site, and then came to WB after the mass exodus from Trailplace. WB has tons of history in the archives, something that isn’t available via Facebook. I donate to help keep the site alive so we can benefit from it.

I’ll be honest, it’s a little off putting to see some newb who’s been here three months bitching and moaning about this place. A lot of good people have come through the doors of Whiteblaze and have contributed a lot of information.

illabelle
11-04-2017, 07:00
...A lot of good people have come through the doors of Whiteblaze and have contributed a lot of information.
No kidding! I am frequently amazed by the quality of information on WB. It would be interesting to compile a database of WB users' areas of expertise. In our online community we have physicians, geologists, gear-makers, FKT record-holders, attorneys, historians, philosophers, hostel owners, botanists, trail builders and maintainers, and a host of ordinary people who are knowledgeable about their locale. I'm confident there are also herpetologists, ornithologists, surgeons, computer geeks, politicians, municipal planners, addiction recovery specialists, pilots, electrical engineers, etc etc. No matter the topic, somebody on WB is able to speak from deep experience, with the quiet voice of true authority. You can't help but respect their views. Of course you have to sift through plenty of nonsense, banter, stupid arguments, and misinformation - but the good stuff is there too.

Maineiac64
11-04-2017, 09:07
I will bet a big reason a lot of people don’t donate is that a physical check is required. Hardly use those anymore, much less through the mail.
WB takes paypal now, very easy.

JC13
11-04-2017, 09:11
Donating member's usernames show up in green regardless of having the "Donating Member" tag or not. Easy way to tell.

Rain Man
11-04-2017, 09:14
I donate because WB is the BEST AT site on the entire WWW. Not only has it been a fantastic source of valuable information for 14 years for me, in addition and even better the WB/AT community has been wonderful and almost beyond believeable in real-live face-to-face help up and down the trail for years and years.

There have been up-and-down cycles over the years, but the adiministrators and moderators have always brought things back to a well-balanced center.

Also, I don't like thinking of myself as a free-loader or of life as a one-way street, in my direction. I am able to donate, so I do. Honestly, WB has saved me far more money over the years than I have ever donated to it.

:)

Bronk
11-04-2017, 09:22
People can say what they want, but the reality is it costs very little money to keep a website like this operating if you shop around and you know what you are doing. I used to operate a similar website at a cost of less than $20 per year. Yes, $20 per year, all in. Domain registration and hosting included. You can spend more than that if you want to. Prices may have gone up a little in the last 10 years but not by much. Someone who has a server in their home or office and does their own hosting and web design work will probably argue that it costs a lot more because they don't have the economy of scale that large web hosting services take advantage of, but that only proves the point that it really isn't costing them anything because they have that server for their business and the space and bandwidth this forum takes up is very minimal.

I've noticed over the last couple years that a lot of the traffic that used to be on this forum has shifted to facebook groups. Used to be when you clicked on "Today's Posts" you'd have 4 pages of threads. Lately its been only two pages. The days of forums like this are probably numbered, though I think they do still have some distinct advantages over social media groups, which are not easily searchable and there is no archive of data.

Offshore
11-04-2017, 09:44
I donated the first year or two but stopped for a couple of reasons. First, most of the moderators aren't even donating members and from the looks of the site don't spend all that much time moderating. When moderators step in, its usually due to some perceived violation of terms of use (often using questionable interpretation), but more likely a post not in line with their own personal world view or opinion. Second, the site really isn't all that useful. I poke around every couple of days, but after a couple of months on the site, it's apparent that it's really just the same old things. Basic questions being answered again and again and long threads of pontification by the same small group of regulars who seem to spend more time being outraged than hiking or backpacking. (Think of the crazy uncle at Thanksgiving...) Granted, it's easy to get caught up participating in those threads (I used to), but for anyone looking for a even a tidbit of useful information, WB is of little value. One has to dig through mountains of general BS, pontification, and snark. There are just better sites out there for information - even Reddit. Where WB seems to excel is for entertainment - sort of like reading the comments section of the local news site.

rocketsocks
11-04-2017, 10:59
Do you know someone who is donating that doesn't have the donating designation?
Yes....but I see now the names of those who are current are green, may bad.

rocketsocks
11-04-2017, 11:00
Donating member's usernames show up in green regardless of having the "Donating Member" tag or not. Easy way to tell.
Got cha..........

rocketsocks
11-04-2017, 11:01
There are probably a lot of us.

In my case I elected to create a “Custom User Title” under my name to share a bit more about myself, rather than keep the Donating Member designation.

If someone is using a custom avatar, that confirms they donated at some point — I think. Of course donating members — like yourself — can use a stock avatar.

That said, while WB will send out reminders to donate and renew your ability to edit posts, I think the custom Avitar is for life.


I will bet a big reason a lot of people don’t donate is that a physical check is required. Hardly use those anymore, much less through the mail.i sent a money order and cash before.

Ethesis
11-04-2017, 12:07
Donating member's usernames show up in green regardless of having the "Donating Member" tag or not. Easy way to tell.


Who knew.

I have a seperate account to see advertising.

Puddlefish
11-04-2017, 12:11
I donate because I use uBlock origin, that cancels out any advertising revenue the site might earn from me. I like to reward the websites that I go to every day and learn things from. It takes time out of one's life to run a quality website, even if you can manage to convince volunteers to monitor the threads.

I pretty much learned from scratch how to distance hike, camp and resupply from the many bright and sharing members of this site prior to my 2016 hike. The two donations I've made to this site were a tiny price to pay considering how well my hike went.

Oh, the editing is a bonus, because I suck at proofreading my own typing.

Another Kevin
11-04-2017, 12:11
Do you know someone who is donating that doesn't have the donating designation?

I have the green screen name (who knew? Surely not color-blind Kevin!) but I prefer my 'Clueless Weekender' to a generic 'Donating Member' badge.

KCNC
11-04-2017, 20:01
I refuse to answer on the grinds I may ruminate myself.

That's it, we're gonna send your fingerprints off to Washington.

George
11-04-2017, 20:24
hikers are cheapskates

OCDave
11-04-2017, 22:28
I find this forum invaluable for learning about gear, trails, techniques, etc...

Are those who contribute this invaluable information compensated for that contribution? Should those who consume more but contribute less be charged a higher dollar amount?

Perhaps you could paypal directly those individuals who post particularly useful tidbits about gear, trails, techniques ect.

Maineiac64
11-04-2017, 23:46
Are those who contribute this invaluable information compensated for that contribution? Should those who consume more but contribute less be charged a higher dollar amount?

Perhaps you could paypal directly those individuals who post particularly useful tidbits about gear, trails, techniques ect.
Dave, don’t be a dork. If we were using that model you would owe money to us all for that comment. The contributions we’re talking about go towards the site hosting and maintenance costs. Curious about the lack of motivation to help the cause is why I asked the question. I am glad to see that many do indeed contribute with both their wisdom and money. Some contribute neither.

rocketsocks
11-05-2017, 01:29
That's it, we're gonna send your fingerprints off to Washington.they already got em.

El JP
11-05-2017, 01:54
Once i straighten out a few things i fully plan to donate. The info here is pure gold.

TexasBob
11-05-2017, 10:54
....I am able to donate, so I do. Honestly, WB has saved me far more money over the years than I have ever donated to it.:)
This sums up why I donate better than I could have said it myself. Thanks.

Sailing_Faith
11-05-2017, 11:26
I donate out of gratitude to all those who helped me return to my passion, and to have the space to deal with the PMs that come in for my sticker requests...

By the way, I still have stickers if anyone wants them.

Shutterbug
11-05-2017, 12:02
For the first several years, AT Troll paid the full cost of WhiteBlaze out of his own pocket. He never asked for anything in return. Several of us asked if there was a way that we could help with the expense. The opportunity to donate was created so that those who want to help can do so. There has never been any pressure on anyone to donate. Thanks to AT Troll for starting this site and to all of those who donate their time to keep it running smoothly. Those of us who don't donate our time, should help with the expense.

egilbe
11-05-2017, 13:09
For the first several years, AT Troll paid the full cost of WhiteBlaze out of his own pocket. He never asked for anything in return. Several of us asked if there was a way that we could help with the expense. The opportunity to donate was created so that those who want to help can do so. There has never been any pressure on anyone to donate. Thanks to AT Troll for starting this site and to all of those who donate their time to keep it running smoothly. Those of us who don't donate our time, should help with the expense.

Very well said.

JPritch
11-05-2017, 14:05
Website forums are cheap to run. It's good to see this one still going strong though as Facebook has all but killed a few of my favorite forums that I used to visit.

Uriah
11-05-2017, 15:23
That $10 could be saving a quarter of an ounce in pack weight instead.

Or a nice, big burrito on the next thru-hike!

Shutterbug
11-05-2017, 16:34
Website forums are cheap to run. It's good to see this one still going strong though as Facebook has all but killed a few of my favorite forums that I used to visit.

Website forums are cheap to run if you don't place a value on the time spent in keeping it running. Keeping a site like this one running smoothly takes a lot of time. I know from experience (I sponsored a similar site for 20 years), that the out of pocket expense is small, but it takes a considerable commitment of time. Time is valuable. I don't know who all participate in moderation of this site, but I appreciate what they do.

rickb
11-05-2017, 17:39
I know from experience (I sponsored a similar site for 20 years), that the out of pocket expense is small, but it takes a considerable commitment of time. Time is valuable.
Then you must also know that a popular site like WB can be valuable as well.

I find it rather remarkable that its owner has not done more with things like Amazon’s affiliate program (4% for a click?) and adds and such. Much respect for his decision, though.

double d
11-06-2017, 06:03
I place a lot of value with our WB forum, its an excellent resource for information and for advice-but I'm always dismayed by the comments I read when others refuse to donate money to this site but enjoy the benefits of it. The old "the internet is free" nonsense to me is just an excuse to pay the $10 a year fee.

Leo L.
11-06-2017, 06:46
I was ready to donate last summer when I finally had realized how many tipps and tricks I had learned here on WB, and, most important, WB is free of annoying adds.
Then I had to learn that (for my country only?) PayPal would be the only way to send money - something I don't have and won't get just for this purpose.
After all, I now resort to "giving" in the very same way I'm "receiving": By providing to the forum as much as possible.

Another Kevin
11-06-2017, 08:29
I was ready to donate last summer when I finally had realized how many tipps and tricks I had learned here on WB, and, most important, WB is free of annoying adds.
Then I had to learn that (for my country only?) PayPal would be the only way to send money - something I don't have and won't get just for this purpose.
After all, I now resort to "giving" in the very same way I'm "receiving": By providing to the forum as much as possible.
In the US, if you have a credit card, you can use PayPal without creating an account. What with international currency transfers, I can understand if it's difficult in Europe.

Gambit McCrae
11-06-2017, 13:01
I donate because I know this site does not run its self. And the people I have met from WB, and the shuttle guys, and the people that have helped me in many ways from logistics, to encouragement. Priceless. I donate $10 a year. I do not donate more then that because for 1, that is what it cost for me to edit. And 2 if EVERYONE donated 10 bucks then all would be good in the WB world.

volleypc
11-08-2017, 10:57
Have to send a check or money order? How about set it up so people can pay online with paypal. I have not owned a checkbook in years. By the way, pm me if there is a way to pay online that I am not aware of.

Rain Man
11-08-2017, 11:01
By the way, pm me if there is a way to pay online that I am not aware of.


Do you not see the "Donate" button above???

grubbster
11-08-2017, 11:31
Do you not see the "Donate" button above???
I think the problem is that it is not obvious that the "order" button on the "donate" page will take you where you can use PayPal. The wording on the donate page looks like the only way to donate is by check.

JC13
11-08-2017, 11:44
I think the problem is that it is not obvious that the "order" button on the "donate" page will take you where you can use PayPal. The wording on the donate page looks like the only way to donate is by check.Exactly, I mentioned this earlier in the thread as well. I went to look into donating a year ago or so and the button to click to pay through PayPal is not obvious. I caught it this last time I checked it out.

Gambit McCrae
11-08-2017, 12:08
Have to send a check or money order? How about set it up so people can pay online with paypal. I have not owned a checkbook in years. By the way, pm me if there is a way to pay online that I am not aware of.

40877

Its at the top of any whiteblaze page

40878

JPritch
11-08-2017, 14:16
It's optional for a reason folks. Until they make it mandatory, I don't think anybody should be judged or looked down upon for not donating. You all know who you are. Let you be the one who gets judged next time you're out on the trail for not rolling up your sleeves and helping to maintain it. Anybody can cut a check....

rickb
11-08-2017, 14:19
Its at the top of any whiteblaze page

40878

On my iPad, the donate tab you show is ALWAYS covered up by a search area:

40879

The donate banner comes and goes — in my snip above it has been replaced with an ad — and once you get to the donation page it was not immediately obvious to me that PayPal was an option.

For a person who is really motivated, those are very small hurdles — but in a fast moving world, I am sure donation money has been missed as a result.

Gambit McCrae
11-08-2017, 15:01
It's optional for a reason folks. Until they make it mandatory, I don't think anybody should be judged or looked down upon for not donating. You all know who you are. Let you be the one who gets judged next time you're out on the trail for not rolling up your sleeves and helping to maintain it. Anybody can cut a check....

I look at a lot of "donation only" opportunities as the Burt from Andy Griffith Show perspective...."Don't wanna be too pushy now!" And in return, I treat these places to a comparable fair. I have, like many, used hotels and shuttles that run off of donation only...Homer in Daleville...George Lightcap in Jersey...Church of the mountain hostel in DWG...Bob's Kincora in Dennis Cove...WB...

Ever covered a fair for something, prepaid for a group trip, loaned money?....How many times have you had to ask for the money back? I have more times then not and can only count on one hand the folks that offer the repayment without me having to ask for it. These are the same people that skip out on "donation only" establishments.


This for me, instigates a frustration for myself, along with a correlation between folks that do not contribute to donation only and the ever so entertaining "Pay for my thru hike" threads. Its the same folks. Comes down to the entitled and non contributing joint of our society that the majority of which is my generation. Sad but true.

volleypc
11-08-2017, 15:23
Do you not see the "Donate" button above???

Clicked it and saw the pay by check or money order... I did go back and look and I see where you can pay by paypal. Usually a paypal icon comes up, but maybe its my firewall that is blocking it. Anyway I did pay by paypal, no option to give screen name or anything, but that is fine. Thanks for pointing this out.

Rain Man
11-08-2017, 20:48
Yes, you are correct. It's oddly "hidden." I always paid by check when PayPal was the only other choice.


Clicked it and saw the pay by check or money order... I did go back and look and I see where you can pay by paypal. Usually a paypal icon comes up, but maybe its my firewall that is blocking it. Anyway I did pay by paypal, no option to give screen name or anything, but that is fine. Thanks for pointing this out.

LIhikers
11-09-2017, 09:42
............ there doesn't seem to be a high percentage of people that donate to help WB and the AT...........

Don't assume that when a person doesn't donate to white blaze that they aren't helping the AT, those 2 actions are not one and the same.
While I haven't donated to White Blaze, I do help the AT. My wife and I are both AT maintainers with the New York/New Jersey Trail Conference.
We've spent plenty of both time and money "helping" the AT over many years.
Let me ask the original poster, how many hours and dollars have you spent in the last year helping the AT????

Maineiac64
11-09-2017, 10:44
Don't assume that when a person doesn't donate to white blaze that they aren't helping the AT, those 2 actions are not one and the same.
While I haven't donated to White Blaze, I do help the AT. My wife and I are both AT maintainers with the New York/New Jersey Trail Conference.
We've spent plenty of both time and money "helping" the AT over many years.
Let me ask the original poster, how many hours and dollars have you spent in the last year helping the AT????
Thank you. This thread is about donating to WB, my mention of helping the AT was pointing at the fact that a portion of the WB donation goes to the ATC, but I should have been more clear about that. I am not assuming that people are not helping the community in other ways, it is of course very evident that they are. Please do not feel guilty about not donating to WB given your other support and that it is purely voluntary.

rickb
11-09-2017, 12:44
Let me ask the original poster, how many hours and dollars have you spent in the last year helping the AT????
Nobody contributes to everything from which they derive a benefit.

Zea
11-09-2017, 13:39
I'm a broke returning-college student and $10 is more than 25% of my weekly budget :(

I try to give back to the members by shipping out things I no longer use when I can and I've shuttled a couple members in the white's before, but obviously that does nothing to keep the servers up and running.

I think donating is usually something you do because it makes you feel good. If i had more money and used this site more often I'd probably donate because I'd feel good about myself for contributing to a resource I find valuable.

LIhikers
11-09-2017, 15:12
Thank you. This thread is about donating to WB, my mention of helping the AT was pointing at the fact that a portion of the WB donation goes to the ATC, but I should have been more clear about that. I am not assuming that people are not helping the community in other ways, it is of course very evident that they are. Please do not feel guilty about not donating to WB given your other support and that it is purely voluntary.

OK, I now better understand your original message, and intention.
And thanks for the Thank You :)