Sleeping Gear- So many options!

[Which Way]

Good day everyone! As some of you know me by now, my wife and I are thru-hiking the AT, starting NOBO in April of 2018. Sleep systems are very confusing to this rookie. I do know that bags and quilts must be tried out, like shoes, because they are going to be an individual fit. I have been able to try out a few bags, but have a some questions before our purchase. I've read were some people use a 20 degree the entire trail, 6 months, and others swap out the 20 for a 40 during the summer, and back to 20 in the winter. Is this a good solution? I was also at an REI, and saw some bag liners that add up to 20-30 degrees to your bag, and they are super light. Could I purchase a 40 degree bag and a bag liner that adds 20 degrees, and simply use the bag liner when we needed it, and not use it on the warmer nights? And last question, which sleeping pad? I'm not using the thin Z-Lite Sol closed cell foam, so I'm deciding on anything inflatable. I've heard the Neo-air xlites are very noisy, so I would rule that one out. I know the self-inflating are nice to have, but an inflatable mattress with air pump could be nice also. With the inflatable air mattress, I could get a battery operated pump, 2.3 oz and 2 AAA lithium batteries at .27 oz for a total of 2.8 oz, which would make my inflatable mattress with a pump, weigh less than the self-inflatable, but I would appreciate some thoughts from you guys.

[Time Zone]

Bag liners don't add anywhere near 20-30 degrees, as measured by someone on here who used an IR thermometer to really test things out. I forget the details (you can do a search), but I think it was more like 5 to 8 degrees. Even then, if you toss and turn in your sleep a lot, you'll get all tangled up in the liner. It's much easier to let you sleep clothes be the liner, and let those add the necessary warmth to your bag. Some who use 20F bags throughout just say that they vent the bag as necessary when it's too warm out. I suspect for others it's not so comfortable or easy. Plus you'd be carrying unnecessary weight when such a warmth rating may not be necessary. If you have the money and support back home, I suspect mailing things back and forth would be optimal. As for sleeping pads, you'll find many threads here. Most people like the NeoAir Xlites and just use earplugs to deal with the crinkle noise. Self-inflators are going to be on the heavy side, though quiet. I think most light air pads are likely to be either a bit noisy (due to the nature of internal design - reflective baffles) or their R-value will be pretty low. You need not use a pump to get any inflated without breath ... a trash compactor bag can be used to gather air and if you cinch it with your hand around the open valve, you can use it as a bellows of sorts and inflate a pad with just a couple bagfuls of air, maybe finishing off with one breath if necessary/desired.

[rocketsocks]

I never slept neked just in case of an emergency so id at least have some protection against the elements.

[some random name]

Bag liners work well for keeping out drafts if you use a quilt. But in my experience they only add about 5 degrees of warmth. To temp ratings, some people are cold and hot sleepers so it depends if you can get by with a 40 or a 20 degree bag all season. For me i am a cold sleeper so when i hike on the AT i use a 20 degree quilt. For pads i use ccf pads, I never liked the hassle of dealing with inflatable pads. What does work for adding extra warmth is your sleeping clothes, like wool long johns, puff down jacket etc. Cheers hope this helps.

[Slo-go'en]

Yea, a liner won't add anything like 20-30 degrees unless you use like 5 of them. But I do like the silk liner. It can make the difference when the temps dip on the occasional cold nights. It's also nice later in the summer when it's all you need for most of the night. But have your bag ready to pull over you early in the morning once it cools off. Silk liners are reasonably light and pack small, so there isn't much penalty for carrying one and give more warmth then synthetic liners.

For an April start, I'd go with a 30 degree bag and a silk liner. You might have a few cold nights early on, but they will be short lived and you can suffer through them. At worse you might get 2 cold nights in a row before it warms up again. This combo will be good for the whole trip. By the time you get to NH/ME, your well acclimated and summer lasts into October up here these days.

I just sit on a log and blow up my NeoAir manually. It takes a few minutes and I get dizzy doing it, but no big deal. The only issue is after years of blowing moist air into it, the air smells really funky coming out in the morning. Someday I should figure out how to rinse the inside out with some dilute chlorine solution to kill what ever is growing in there!

[JC13]

The only "liner" that is truly going to give you a 20-30* bump is an additional quilt or bag inside of another bag.

For instance: EE states that a 50* quilt over a 40* quilt will get you to an effective 20* rating.

[soumodeler]

As said before, bag liners don't give you anywhere near the advertised warmth increase. I use a thin silk liner just to keep my down bags and quilts cleaner.

The NeoAir XLite is nowhere near as loud as you may have heard. The original one years ago was, but it was quickly replaced with a much quieter model. No louder to me than other non-self inflating pads. It is a great pad for 3 season use.

A good 20* bag, with a silk liner would be my suggestion for colder weather use on the AT. Swap out to a 40* bag when it warms up in mid Virginia or whenever. Get the 20* back before you hit the Whites. Be sure to pay at least some attention to the comfort vs lower limit ratings for bags. It will help in making your choice. I would get a comfort 20* rating.

[Ethesis]

The only "liner" that is truly going to give you a 20-30* bump is an additional quilt or bag inside of another bag.

For instance: EE states that a 50* quilt over a 40* quilt will get you to an effective 20* rating.


The problem with many liners is that weight = warmth.

I remember playing with polyester fleece. I could get an excellent boost in warmth from one —and it weighed two pounds.

The same for layering quilts. By the time it was warm I had two pounds+

so so I have a new sub 2lb quilt. It has a lot of range and when it is warm I can switch to my 15 oz quilt.

My wife got a Marmot Phase 20. Less than two pounds and it keeps her warm into the thirties and she needed to vent. Going to test it lower. But she opened it up and used it as a quilt too and it was easy to deal with warmer weather.

It is too too easy to add a few ounces here, a few there and find you’ve changed out 16 ounces for sixteen ounces and four pounds of add-one.

The new gray vapor thermarest is still under a pound, quieter, and even warmer. Very comfortable.

[DownEaster]

Liners keep your sleeping bag clean, and silk makes for a more comfortable sleep experience for most people. You can also use the liner to sleep in on top of your bag in warm temperatures. These are very worthwhile characteristics, independent of the temperature boost which others have already stated to be meager.

In addition to inner liners, you can also add an exterior liner to your sleeping bag: a bivvy sack. I carry an SOL Escape Bivvy (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0075ZS096/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1), both for emergency use in case something bad (drop in a stream sort of bad) happens to my bag, and also extra protection from the elements in the icebox-type shelters in the GSMNP.

Fit of a bag is important to your sleep experience. If you get a snug mummy bag it fits like a sock, and turns with you just as a sock does on your foot. I personally like this snugness, because the close fit means no excess material to get twisted around me, and I don't accidentally end up exhaling damp breath into my bag's hood. Other people want a more bed-like experience, either a roomy bag or a quilt, so they can turn independent of the covers. A hoodless bag with a separate hat works better here.

Conventional wisdom is that you don't use a quilt if the temperature is low enough that an accidental venting of warmth by pulling one edge loose will interrupt your sleep; below that temperature you switch to a bag to avoid the problem. Sleep quality on the trail is very important.

Most side sleepers will want some sort of pillow. You can get a separate inflatable pillow, a stuff sack with a fuzzy surface that will double as a pillow when stuffed with clothing, or make your own. I use my (synthetic) puffy jacket with a merino wool buff as a pillowcase. (Synthetic insulation doesn't compress nearly as much as down, which means it makes a better pillow unless your down jacket is thick enough for arctic weather.)

Most sleeping pads compress the insulation underneath your body into uselessness, and that's why many people recommend a quilt instead of a bag. Klymit's "Static V" line of inflatable pads give sleeping bag insulation space to expand between the "V"s, so those pads make sleeping bags work better. Klymit's pads are also less noisy than Therm-a-Rest designs. (Actually, pretty much every other inflatable is less noisy than Therm-a-Rest pads. The worst of those are like trying to sleep on a jumbo bag of potato chips. I've never been able to get to sleep on a Therm-a-Rest pad because of the noise.)

[blw2]

I like quilts because I don't like having my feet tied together quite so tightly....and I'm not going out in very cold weather.....

as for the pads
Fairly recently I have used thermarest self inflating pads for a long time. Recently bought a nemo tensor insulated pad. It seemed much quieter than the thermarest inflatables and others in the store... & I just liked it better. I want to like the tensor, I really do want to.....but I just don't. I don't like the noise, I don't like the bouncy feel of air, and I don't like all the work to inflate it. I tried the garbage bag inflation trick as well as blowing...not for me. Getting ready to return it for a smaller inflating pad, a smaller lighter one than my old favorite trailpro

[Ethesis]

Wearing a base layer to sleep in also adds warmth and helps keep things clean.

A base layer is an alternative to a liner.

[saltysack]

Personally Id get better and lighter results by simply swapping out my base layer and keep the 20* quilt entire way....cap 1 vs cap 3,4 is several oz difference vs only a 3 oz difference vs 45* quilt vs 20*.......I sleep cold...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DownEaster]

Wearing a base layer to sleep in also adds warmth and helps keep things clean.

A base layer is an alternative to a liner.
Perhaps it is, in real terms. However, in matters of ratings, a base layer (long johns plus beanie hat) is assumed (i.e., already factored in) in EN (European Norm) sleeping bag temperature figures. So, statistically speaking, a base layer won't be an alternative, and it'd be entirely on your shoulders to figure out the temperature difference between wearing the EN base layer clothing and using a liner.

[garlic08]

Your decision will partly depend on what part of April you start in, and on your hiking speed.

If you start in early April, the 20F bag is a good idea. If you start in late April, you probably won't need that rating.

By late May, you'll be wanting a cooler bag, or the 20F bag is going to get nasty fast. I'd recommend a 30 or 40F quilt for the summer. Definitely more than a liner. (An advantage of a quilt is it stays pretty clean since you don't sleep on it. A few minutes of sunshine UV once in a while keeps it pretty fresh.)

If you can hike a relatively fast four-month pace starting early April, and switch to a cooler bag in May, you might not need the 20F bag again.

Liners don't work for me--I shift around a little too much, and the extra mass is not negligible in my opinion.

[Ethesis]

Personally Id get better and lighter results by simply swapping out my base layer and keep the 20* quilt entire way....cap 1 vs cap 3,4 is several oz difference vs only a 3 oz difference vs 45* quilt vs 20*.......I sleep cold...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

exactly.

Ive found that to work better and lighter than the other alternatives—while keeping my gear clean.

And the value of a buff is hard to overstate.

[Ethesis]

Perhaps it is, in real terms. However, in matters of ratings, a base layer (long johns plus beanie hat) is assumed (i.e., already factored in) in EN (European Norm) sleeping bag temperature figures. So, statistically speaking, a base layer won't be an alternative, and it'd be entirely on your shoulders to figure out the temperature difference between wearing the EN base layer clothing and using a liner.


Err. Heavier base layer over liner tends to be warmer and lighter over all.

[Time Zone]

soumodeler wrote "The NeoAir XLite is nowhere near as loud as you may have heard." Noisy is in the ear of the beholder. Having slept next to 3 tents with the new ones, IMO it's plenty noisy and I can hardly imagine how bad the old ones must have been. The next time I was out, I was next to just one tent that had one, but this time I wore my AOSafety earplugs (29 db reduction or so). I could still hear it through them! I thought there was something that had crawled in my ear that was making that noise, but no, it was the neighbor turning on the NeoAir XLite. I'm not saying they're not comfortable, nor do I claim they're not light or not a miracle of engineering. They may be all those things. But, IMO, they are bag-o-chips loud. Remember when Sun Chips came out with that biodegradeable bag that was so much noisier than anything that had come before it? It was like that.

[blw2]

pretty much matches my experience trying them out in the REI store. The Nemo Tensor is notably quieter, and a really seemingly nice made pad too, but it still makes some noise. (there should be a really nice insulated one coming up in the REI garage today (just returned it last night))
I think I read some where that they get better with use....but honestly I wonder if that's not just noise induced hearing loss making the users think they are getting quieter....

[IslandPete]

We used the EE Accomplice 20deg the whole way. It's a double sized quilt for two people. The beauty of the quilt is that you can sick your feet out if it gets too warm, which it rarely did. We also had an Exped Synmat Hypelite Duo Pad. The combination worked perfect for us.

[saltysack]

If the xlite is too noisy for you try the xtherm.....much quieter and just as comfortable and warmer.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[colorado_rob]

We used the EE Accomplice 20deg the whole way. It's a double sized quilt for two people. The beauty of the quilt is that you can sick your feet out if it gets too warm, which it rarely did. We also had an Exped Synmat Hypelite Duo Pad. The combination worked perfect for us. I just noticed that the OP was looking for thoughts on a sleep system for a COUPLE, and this is exactly what we have, the Hyperlite Duo and the Accomplice.

THIS IS THE BEST SLEEP SYSTEM WE'VE EVER USED, BY FAR!

Sorry for the shouting, but I just cannot say enough good things about this setup. This is assuming you are "cuddlers" like my wife and I are. Some couples like their own space.

One negative: the original accomplice we got (20 deg) was a bit thin in down in the torso area, hence I don't think it was a true 20 degree bag. So I added 2.5 or so ounces of down. Very easy to do yourself, one small slit and a 1" diameter, 1 foot long piece of PVC pipe and a piece of 3/4" dowel rod to "plunge" the down in (you can reach all the torso area chambers from the one slit), then finally a small piece of Tenacious Tape to repair the slit, and you're done. If you want more details, I can provide.

Anyway, last spring on the AT we did have one 5 degree night, and together with a couple hot water bottles and wearing our UL down jackets to bed, we were plenty comfy in our 20 degree setup.

[Which Way]

We used the EE Accomplice 20deg the whole way. It's a double sized quilt for two people. The beauty of the quilt is that you can sick your feet out if it gets too warm, which it rarely did. We also had an Exped Synmat Hypelite Duo Pad. The combination worked perfect for us.

If you don't mind me asking, when did you start and end. This sounds perfect as we have have looked at EE. We are starting April 15th and hoping to finish by October 01 at the latest.

[Which Way]

Thanks a million Rob! we have not seen much input from couples, and this is awesome! We are still cuddlers ourselves, so this sounds perfect. I was really trying to decide between a quilt or bag, single or double and I like your suggestion. I was concerned about it getting to hot. We are leaving April 15th, and planning on being through by October 01st at the latest.

[IslandPete]

If you don't mind me asking, when did you start and end. This sounds perfect as we have have looked at EE. We are starting April 15th and hoping to finish by October 01 at the latest.
Same as your schedule. Worked great!

[egilbe]

Colorado-rob and I have the same set up. Only issue I have is that I still can’t find the slow leak on her side of the air mattress.

As far as the 20*degree Accomplice, we use it all Summer, Spring and Fall, but switch to cold weather bags in Winter. We cuddle (my gf and I. Not Rob) and love our sleep system. Coldest is low teens. If its warm, its easy enough to stick out a leg, or arm, or roll down one side, or the other.

[Venchka]

If the xlite is too noisy for you try the xtherm.....much quieter and just as comfortable and warmer.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Exactly. I’ve slept on my Ctherm Large for 2 continuous months and 4+ months total. I don’t a sound from the Xtherm. The best sleep ever on the ground and very close to my bed at home.
Wayne

[colorado_rob]

Colorado-rob and I have the same set up. Only issue I have is that I still can’t find the slow leak on her side of the air mattress.

As far as the 20*degree Accomplice, we use it all Summer, Spring and Fall, but switch to cold weather bags in Winter. We cuddle (my gf and I. Not Rob) and love our sleep system. Coldest is low teens. If its warm, its easy enough to stick out a leg, or arm, or roll down one side, or the other. Someone on here, perhaps you (?) told me about this setup, and I'm very grateful.

Sorry about that leak... they have a 2-year warranty if you're still inside of that window. And have you checked for grit/dirt around the valve? I had a slow leak that turned out to be a dirty/sandy valve (not this pad, a thermarest).

[Which Way]

Colorado-rob and I have the same set up. Only issue I have is that I still can’t find the slow leak on her side of the air mattress.

As far as the 20*degree Accomplice, we use it all Summer, Spring and Fall, but switch to cold weather bags in Winter. We cuddle (my gf and I. Not Rob) and love our sleep system. Coldest is low teens. If its warm, its easy enough to stick out a leg, or arm, or roll down one side, or the other.

Thanks egilbe. I feel a lot more comfortable ordering this now with the input from you and the others. Glad you clarified your cuddle partner, lol.

[egilbe]

Someone on here, perhaps you (?) told me about this setup, and I'm very grateful.

Sorry about that leak... they have a 2-year warranty if you're still inside of that window. And have you checked for grit/dirt around the valve? I had a slow leak that turned out to be a dirty/sandy valve (not this pad, a thermarest).

we had an Accomplice and used two different air mattreses. Someone on here posted about the Hyperlite synmat Duo and within the hour it was on its way to our house. It is the perfect mat for the Accomplice. Its kinda scary thinking there is almost $1000 invested in a sleep system, but its so worth it.

[IslandPete]

Yup. We got the long duo pad and the long/wide quilt, and I sleep better with them than in my bed. I also stuff my puffy jacket in the brain of the Osprey pack and slide a buff over the whole thing for a great pillow!

[Berserker]

Wearing a base layer to sleep in also adds warmth and helps keep things clean.

A base layer is an alternative to a liner.
After many years of trial and error this is what I have settled on for most trips. I carry a 35 degree bag, synthetic insulated pants and a down coat. normally the 35 degree bag can get me through most nights, so I add the pants and coat as needed. Obviously the coat and pants pull double duty as they get used around camp too.

Also make sure to get a good insulating pad as that will make a huge difference. I have read a lot of complaints about the Neo-air, but I have an older one and it's not noisy at all...and I toss and turn a lot.

[wordstew]

Here's my 2cents hope it helps

As for the loud air mattress go out and buy a can of the (as seen on TV) flex seal paint. Hold the can a couple feet above your fully inflated air mattress now spray away. You don't want to coat the entire mattress just want a billion or so miro-dots of the flex seal on the front and back of the mattress. This should significantly reduce the noise and pretty much stop you from sliding off your pad at night. You can also go lower tech and just smear some silicone (IE: bathtub cocking) on the mattress but IMHO I find flex seal to be easier and more effective.

As for quilts, some say 20 degree some say 40. I say split the difference and get a decent 30 degree. I would suggest taking a look at underground quilt UGQ. Get yourself a 30, add an ounce or two of extra fill if you feet get cold easy or you're a cold sleeper. Throw in a liner or use a bivy (like TI goat) now with clothing you can add or subtract articles bivy/liner/clothing and get through some pretty large temp swings. If you're on a budget I suggest you look at Aegismax gold sleeping bags for about $120 you can get 14 or 15 ounces of fill in a bag that's differential. Pretty good deal for the $$.
You could also get yourself an Aegismax Windhard quilt. 10oz fill and weighs in at 15 ounces. Incorporate that into some sort of system (clothes/bivy/liner) and that might get you a long way on the AT. Staying cheap you could also make yourself a Tyvek bivey.

Enjoy your hike and remember HYOH, part of the fun is experimenting to find out what works for you.

[Which Way]

we had an Accomplice and used two different air mattreses. Someone on here posted about the Hyperlite synmat Duo and within the hour it was on its way to our house. It is the perfect mat for the Accomplice. Its kinda scary thinking there is almost $1000 invested in a sleep system, but its so worth it.

My concern is the hyperlite duo being durable enough. The regular duo is a pound more, but may it be worth it for the insurance of not having to replace it later?

[saltysack]

Only issue I see with a dedicated 2 person sleep system is if one of you decides to quit which is quite common.....if the other wants to continue they’re carrying a lot of extra weight....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[egilbe]

I found the hyperlite duo weighs less than two seperate air mattresses, but more than one. We have 40 or 50 nights on it since we bought it last year. One slow leak is the only problem we found with it.

[Which Way]

Excellent point saltysack. My wife and I have been married over 20 years, and have only been separated a few times over that period due to work requirements. If one of us had to get off of the trail, we would both get off.

[Which Way]

Thanks egilbe. I'm definitely going with the Exped duo that you recommended. While reading reviews on it, I saw were one person recommended the regular duo pad over the hyperlite duo pad because of the hyperlite being less durable and tearing easy. I understand this is a possibility with any of the ultralight equipment, I just don't want to be on the trail with a flat mattress. I'm just not sure I want to pay the extra pound penalty for a more durable pad, especially if the hyperlite pad has worked for others.