View Full Version : Hut to hut Presidentials hike
I am interested in taking wife and 18 year old kids on a 4 day 3 night hike starting at Pinkham Notch and following AT to end at Highland Lodge hitting 3 huts each night and trying to bag each President. Is this possible while not being over strenuous for a few newer but in shape Hiker’s? Or would they hate me at the end?
muzzo909
11-05-2017, 19:59
You could start at the Appalachia Trailhead and save a few miles up to Madison Springs Hut.
First day is the hardest, elevation wise. If they don't want to bag all the peaks they can stay on the Gulfside Trail and continue on while you go up and over.
If you're planning on doing four days and three nights you should consider starting at the Highland Center, staying the first night at mitzpah spring hut, the second night at Lakes of the clouds hut, and the third night at Madison Springs Hut. If the weather is nice, and they like hiking, then they'll love you! If the weather is bad, they'll hate you forever!!
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I had read that SB was better than NB.
muzzo909
11-05-2017, 20:56
I had read that SB was better than NB.
I've done both ways up to Mount Washington. I can't say that north bound was "better" than south bound. Once you're above tree line, everything's amazing! Being able to use Mizpah and Lakes while gaining most of your elevation up to Mt. Washington will be easier on your group. Then the trip from Mt. Washington to Madison will be downhill as opposed to uphill.
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It's a pretty brutal ascent up Madison from Pinkham Notch. You will need to start early in the morning and you will have to summit Madison at the end of the day, but it's doable. From Madison Springs Hut to Lakes is longer, but most of your elevation gain is done already. It's fairly flat, if you don't want to bag Adams, Jefferson and Clay. It's not a bad walk, other than all the rock hopping you are going to do. It's hard on the feet with soft soled shoes.
nsherry61
11-05-2017, 22:15
. . . the trip from Mt. Washington to Madison will be downhill as opposed to uphill. . .
So, Mount Washington is 900 feet higher than Madison, but you still do almost 1500 feet of climbing as you hike/walk/stumble/climb from Washington to Madison. It is 1000 feet more climbing going the other direction, but neither direction is what I would call downhill.
To the OP: Plan on the hike being at least twice as hard as you ever imagined it would be, and that's coming from a guy that thinks the White Mountains don't really count as mountains as much as hills. Hell, there's trails to the top of almost every one of them. Go out west if you want to experience "real" mountains, regardless of what the locals here claim. BUT, DON'T UNDERESTIMATE how hard the hiking/climbing/stumbling is through the presidentials.
Averaging 6 miles or so a day is very reasonable along the presidentials, even for relatively inexperienced people. BUT, DO NOT think it will be less than exceedingly strenuous, and at times frustrating.
muzzo909
11-05-2017, 22:25
So, Mount Washington is 900 feet higher than Madison, but you still do almost 1500 feet of climbing as you hike/walk/stumble/climb from Washington to Madison. It is 1000 feet more climbing going the other direction, but neither direction is what I would call downhill.
To the OP: Plan on the hike being at least twice as hard as you ever imagined it would be, and that's coming from a guy that thinks the White Mountains don't really count as mountains as much as hills. Hell, there's trails to the top of almost every one of them. Go out west if you want to experience "real" mountains, regardless of what the locals here claim. BUT, DON'T UNDERESTIMATE how hard the hiking/climbing/stumbling is through the presidentials.
Averaging 6 miles or so a day is very reasonable along the presidentials, even for relatively inexperienced people. BUT, DO NOT think it will be less than exceedingly strenuous, and at times frustrating.
I was referring to get to Madison Springs Hut from Washington (6,288 ft. to 4825 ft). Downhill was probably a bad choice of words. lol. It's a long day going the other way from the Hut to Washington and then still having to continue on to Lakes Hut. Using Mizpah and Lakes to get up to Washington allows for less miles per day.
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peakbagger
11-06-2017, 07:37
Start at Appalachia in Randolph rather than Pinkham Notch. As others have said that first day from Pinkham to Madison Hut is a long day with lots of elevation gain. Valley Way to Mad hut still has elevation gain but is far better graded and shorter. You can stay at Joe Dodge lodge at Pinkham notch the night before and catch the AMC shuttle to deliver you to Appalachia in the AM. If you are going northbound take the Crawforth Path from the Highland Center and then the cut off to Mitzpah Spring Hut. The hike up via the AT from Crawford Notch is straight up. The hike along Webster Cliffs is great but that first couple of miles can be brutal for those out of shape. If you want a taste of Webster Cliff you can take the Webster Jackson trail and take the Webster branch to the top of Webster Cliff. Its less total elevation gain than starting at the base of Crawford Notch.
If you heading south from Madison, the next two day hikes are mostly above treeline ridgewalking. It is spectacular on a nice day but it can be dangerous in nasty weather. It is pretty much walking from rock to rock with very rare places where you actually touch flat ground. If you take your time there is plenty of time to go from hut to hut. Do realize that the actual AT route skips many of the summits. It is routed to avoid the summits in case there is foul weather. There are plenty of options to go over the summits but if you need to touch every white blaze you add a bit of mileage to go out and back from the AT route. Note on a nice day its worth the extra miles and time.
And now the two major Caveats
The first thing many folks get is sticker shock. The AMC huts are very popular and priced accordingly. Many of the weekend slots later in the summer are booked many months in advance. AMC does have multiday package with a slight savings but they generally are only offered in the shoulder season when they are trying to fill less than full huts. This is usually during the week in June (which can a bit wetter and possibly buggy). If you are serious about a trip you need to book soon or take a chance that a hut may be full. There are cancellation fees but at some point you loose you total fee. They dont refund for bad weather and there is remote possibility if the weather is dangerous on the ridge that you may have to hike down off the mountain and skip a section (this is rare and the hut crew will try to give you options).
The second thing is the AMC huts are not hotels. They have no heat, insulation, electricity or hut water. There is no cellphone use in the hut and no place to charge cell phones. There are no private or semiprivate rooms. There are large bunkrooms with stacked bunks holding many people. There are a couple of shared toilet rooms. There will be folks going back and forth all night and there will be folks snoring and kids crying. Plan on ear plugs and sleep mask if you have one. On occasion the weather will crank up and that may keep you up. The huts have a strict schedule that you have to follow or you wont get breakfast or dinner. The only option to wash up is with cold water. The huts are at the intersection of major trails and will have steady stream of dayhikers coming through. Lake of the Clouds lives up to its knickname Lake of the Crowds. When the hut is fully booked, there is no spare room, all the dining room benches will be full "cheek to cheek" If you want privacy your only option is head out away from the hut but be aware that as its above treeline you are severely restricted as to where you can go as they strongly encourage you to stay on the trails.
This can be a trip of a lifetime if you are ready for it. Its not really a good option for out of shape folks who have not into it and expect high end lodging . There is lot to be said to do a single night trip to hut like Greenleaf and see if its your cup of tea. If you want more amenities, Maine Huts and Trails has a string of 4 huts in the Sugarloaf and Bigelow area in Maine. The huts are more roomy, with showers and hot water. The trade off is you are hiking around the mountains instead of over them.
Berserker
11-06-2017, 13:10
I did this hike back in August (on the AT...didn't do all the peaks) in the reverse direction (i.e. Crawford to Pinkham) in 3 days (2 nights). I would recommend going from Crawford Notch to Pinkham Notch as this spaces the huts out better and puts them in a more logical order. Your first day going in this direction would take you to Mizpah hut, which is about 6.5 miles and about 3,000' of elevation gain. The first day in the other direction to Madison Springs hut is about 8 miles and a similar amount of gain, but that climb is harder in my opinion.
As for the the terrain, if you haven't been up in the Whites it's not just "normal" trail walking. There are a lot of rock scrambles and very steep sections of trail. So just be aware that it's tough stuff.
On a side note, consider trying to pack light. I carried a Marmot Kompressor that just had clothing, other small necessities (i.e. head lamp, phone/camera, ear plugs, etc.) an emergency shelter (poncho/tarp), some emergency items and lunches. That's all you need if you stay the huts. They feed you dinner and breakfast, and trust me you'll get stuffed. They also have other food available throughout the day for purchase (candy, energy bars, soup and bread).
Berserker
11-06-2017, 13:13
Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that I have been in that area a couple of times, and Mt. Washington is rarely not in the clouds (this is what the locals told me when I was up there too). So don't underestimate the weather up there. It can be nice and warm, and as soon as you enter the clouds it's cold, wet and windy. So make sure to pack accordingly clothing wise.
peakbagger
11-06-2017, 14:51
My house and my office is just North of Mt Madison and I get to watch and live the local weather. Like any other high summit Mt Washington tends to form clouds in the afternoon. The area can get into some pretty persistent sunny stretches especially later in the summer into September. June can be a bit more unstable weather. The biggest summer threat is afternoon thundershowers. They usually form in the afternoon and persist into the evening. They go hand in hand with hot and hazy weather. The other issue with hot and hazy weather is air quality. Ari quality can be worse on the summit ridge than down on the ground as there is lot of higher level pollution that can get hauled in from the mid west. Asthmatics can notice it. Visibility can also be crap. By far the views are best in the late fall, winter and early spring although on occasion after a front goes through there can be some bluebird days in the summer.
illabelle
11-06-2017, 16:36
My husband and I did the hut-to-hut thing southbound from Pinkham to Franconia (about 54 miles) July 2-9 of last year. As advised by folks here on WB, we bought the AMC membership so we'd get the discounts. We spent the night in 8 AMC huts/lodges, beginning with Joe Dodge and finishing up at Greenleaf. With the membership discount, the multi-day discount, and anything else they had, it still cost just under $1500. The good part is that we didn't have to carry our usual pack weight. Rain gear, emergency bivy, lunch food, jacket, headlamps, cathole kit, water, map, etc. But no sleeping bag/pad, no tent, no multi-day food bag, no extra clothes.
Several have mentioned the climb up to Madison from Pinkham Notch. Somehow that climb doesn't stand out in my memory as particularly difficult. What is memorable about that day is the incredible wind once we got out of the trees. Standing up became difficult, and sometimes hazardous. Without the support of our trekking poles, we would have been blown over multiple times. It was pretty crazy. When we got to Madison Hut, they strongly discouraged us from continuing on the next day to Washington because of the forecast (continued strong wind). So in the morning we headed down the steep Valley Way Trail (comes out at spot referred to by others above as Appalachia), paid a cab $100 to take us to the Cog Railway area, and climbed up the VERY STEEP Ammonusuc Ravine Trail. Seems like that trail was pretty much just climbing up a waterfall. I can't imagine how people manage it when it's slick with rain or frost. The reason we took this expensive and tiring detour was so that we could stay on our $1500 schedule. Because of the hut reservation system and the difficult terrain, the Whites have been the most costly and most logistically challenging section we've done.
Another particularly memorable day was climbing up Lafayette. We had been told about the false summits, and that was definitely true. Every time we climbed up and over some hill, there was more hill up ahead. Always more. It was all above treeline, and sunny most of the way up with a light breeze. So we were able to make use of our umbrellas for shade. At the summit, it became damp with clouds above and below. We took the 1-mile side trail down to Greenleaf Hut. The next morning we climbed back up, and hurried as quickly as we could to get off the ridgeline ahead of a rainstorm.
The link below was helpful to me as I was planning and learning about this section.
http://www.summitpost.org/hut-to-hut-in-the-white-mountains/641144
T.S.Kobzol
11-06-2017, 16:47
To bag all the peaks from Madison Hut to Lakes of the Clouds is a long day for a 'newer' hiker.
To bag all the peaks from LOC to Mizpah is a piece of cake.
I am interested in taking wife and 18 year old kids on a 4 day 3 night hike starting at Pinkham Notch and following AT to end at Highland Lodge hitting 3 huts each night and trying to bag each President. Is this possible while not being over strenuous for a few newer but in shape Hiker’s? Or would they hate me at the end?
Not going to discourage you as this sounds awesome, but do they have experience hiking in elevation and doing steep hikes? I agree re: doing what you can to mitigate the elevation factor. I like in NM and know that elevation can be a serious kicker. Some of the hikes are a LOT easier and they rate them somewhat.
Also don't know if you know about them, but Maine Huts has somewhat of the same system, though they are run by the state of Maine and not AMC. This is not part of the AT (in Rangley, but old logging roads, river beds and that sort of thing). Mainehuts (dot) org.
peakbagger
11-06-2017, 17:37
A bit of quibble is Maine Huts and Trails is an independent group. The state of Maine is not involved with them and actually has thrown some roadblocks at them on occasion. Maine Huts and Trails is far less strenuous than the presidentials but the downside is minimal views. The hut on Flagstaff lake is very nice place on a near totally undeveloped lake and shoreline that looks more like the ocean than beach in Maine. They have full set of water toys and boats to use as part of the reservation.
The question of can any hiker do any particular trip it is always an unknown as we the white blaze crowd dont know the OPs. Folks routinely hike the entire ridge from Appalachia to Crawford notch in one day. I did it two years ago and I am not a poster child for a speedster and definitely not lean and mean ;). Its a 15 hour day for me. That said most folks can make the distance between the huts on a reasonable day with time to spare. There is not a lot to do at the huts so the key is to time your hike so you get there just before supper. The bigger challenge for most is getting up to treeline and I generally recommend a shorter hike to allow folks to take their time. Pinkham to Madison Hut is very long day mileage wise and elevations wise and many thruhikers complain about the length of the ascent or descent from the Great Gulf to Madison thus I recomend Valley Way from Appalachia, they used to run donkeys up it long ago to resupply the hut, its far shorter and less elevation gain. The longest day is the day is between Madison and Lake of the Crowds. On a good weather day you will have plenty of time to get from one hut to another. The bypass to Adams off the Gulfside is about 600 feet vertical (via Airline). Its early in the morning after breakfast in the hut and worth the climb as you get incredible views along the ridge and into the Great Gulf. Unless you need to touch every blaze you can take the Star Lake trail from the hut and just go over the summit and down Lowes to Thunderstorm junction and pick up the AT again. Mt Jefferson is bit more of a commitment, you definitely can save time and some elevation skipping it via the AT but again you miss some great views. Many folks like to go up Mt Clay, it adds elevation and loses most of it where it rejoins the AT. The big shortcut to factor in is skipping the summit of Mt Washington. Its an overcrowded zoo most days with two tourist attractions continuously dumping loads of folks into the crowded summit building. The views are obscured by the summit development and a 45 minute or longer wait to get your photo taken at the summit sign is typical. Folks have this summit on their bucket list, but for someone hiking its usually a major let down and time waster. You are far better taking the West Side trail around the summit. This is one of the best pieces of above tree line trail construction in the whites and I highly recommend it. You will rapidly see Lake of the Crowds and if you feel guilty and have the time you can still take the Crawford path up to the summit.
Day 2 from LOC to Mizpah is easier unless the weather is bad. Its worth the detour up Eisenhower as the AT route is in the scrub. Mizpah to Crawford Notch via the AT is long day with a good chuck of it in the scrub until you hit the summit of Jackson and then Webster Cliff. The hike down Webster Cliff is very very steep, not technical but unrelentless. You are far better taking the bypass to the Crawford Path which is an old Bridle path and the oldest continuously maintained hiking trail in the US (there is brass marker down near the bottom). Its far quicker to the bottom then via the AT.
By the way some folks get creative and skip LOC. They pay the autoroad to drive them up and they hike north to Madison Hut and then hike down the next day to either Appalachia or Pinkham, stay at Pinkham and then to do it again and hike south to Mitzpah. The logistics are bit more tricky but it saves the big initial elevation gain and you can delay a day if the weather is nasty. Note hiking along the ridgeline in nasty weather and the subsequent stay in a hut that night is not that great and I expect most would prefer a warm bed and days delay than have to press on.
I've been lucky and did my president traverses in bright sunlight on comparatively warmish days. I've also been up there when it's subzero and howling winds in January and cloudy and cold winds in July that felt colder than the January hikes. On warm sunny days it's a treat. On cold, cloudy windy days it's a chore and wished I'd stayed home in bed.
Berserker
11-07-2017, 11:49
Not going to discourage you as this sounds awesome, but do they have experience hiking in elevation and doing steep hikes? I agree re: doing what you can to mitigate the elevation factor. I like in NM and know that elevation can be a serious kicker. Some of the hikes are a LOT easier and they rate them somewhat.
In general nothing on the East coast typically affects most people elevation-wise as there's nothing over here much over 6,600' or so. so I doubt this is going to be an issue unless someone is hyper sensitive to elevation.
These are difficult hikes at best and very strenuous at times. Don't mean to discourage but taking the inexperienced family on a multi-day hike peak-bagging in the Whites could make you a very unpopular person.
Berserker
11-07-2017, 13:02
These are difficult hikes at best and very strenuous at times. Don't mean to discourage but taking the inexperienced family on a multi-day hike peak-bagging in the Whites could make you a very unpopular person.
I've been backpacking for years, and my normal pace is 2.5 - 3 mph. I was struggling to get to 1.5 mph and was more at 1.25 mph most of the way though the Whites on my section hikes. So I do agree with this and the other several thousand posts that say to make sure not to underestimate how hard the Whites actually are.
On the flip side though, for anyone in good physical condition (i.e. exercises regularly, eats well, yadda yadda) tackling what amounts to less than 30 miles in 4 days shouldn't be that bad. The one thing that would throw a monkey wrench in it is bad weather. But hey, at least you have a decent bed and shelter and are gonna get fed at the end of the day...bad weather sucks a lot worse when you have to set up a tent and cook your own dinner :D
Good thing to know about elevation. I guess theoretically you can get altitude sickness at 6500 feet, but it's not very common.
We have done hiking and several times did the Lenn Foote Hike Inn at GA that is part of the AT approach to Springer. As a family it took just over 2 hours. We have all day and are in relatively good shape as I run 1/2 marathons and daughter is a dancer with ballet. Shape is not an issue.