Geraldine Largay - The Final Campsite [Archive]

tdoczi

11-20-2017, 19:15

Coffee

11-20-2017, 19:31

from things ive read she could have been 5 feet off the trail and not found her way back.
which i suppose could happen to any of us. i think other things she did or didnt do are more of an issue.
but i wouldnt call it death by modesty.
What I always do is find points of reference when walking deep into woods to dig a cat hole. It is definitely easy to get turned around in some places. Also, I point one of my trekking poles in the direction of the trail before I start digging. If the woods are really deep, I'll take a compass bearing as I head off the trail.

In any case, R.I.P. to the deceased.

Time Zone

11-20-2017, 19:38

Whatever issues she may have already had with sense of direction, experience, and knowledge, being stressed, exhausted, and hungry and exacerbate the situation. You're not at your sharpest under such circumstances.

Lone Wolf

11-20-2017, 19:43

Coffee

11-20-2017, 19:47

and nobody carries paper maps any more. very foolish not to. very foolish to count on electronics
Yeah, I feel like a dinosaur with paper maps and at least a primitive understanding of a compass ... tons of people "see no need" for them anymore. "There's an app for that ... "

tdoczi

11-20-2017, 19:54

Yeah, I feel like a dinosaur with paper maps and at least a primitive understanding of a compass ... tons of people "see no need" for them anymore. "There's an app for that ... "

a map and even a casual ability to read one (know which way north was, read topo lines, etc) would have gotten her out of there

Lone Wolf

11-20-2017, 19:56

Yeah, I feel like a dinosaur with paper maps and at least a primitive understanding of a compass ... tons of people "see no need" for them anymore. "There's an app for that ... "

i don't own a "smart phone" or any other devices

johnspenn

11-20-2017, 19:59

Every time this unfortunate woman's name is mentioned, it's the proverbial "dead horse" all over again...

Tipi Walter

11-20-2017, 21:27

The big difference between Largay and myself? When I have to take a Turd break I dump my pack on the trail and go off the trail about 8 feet and dig a proper cathole and release the festering Stool, all the while eyeballing my pack on the trail.

She got lost on July 23, 2013 and her body wasn't found until October 2015. Wow. She survived at least 26 days.

Her last camp was 2 miles from the Appalachian Trail. Two miles in the Maine woods might as well be 50.

rocketsocks

11-20-2017, 21:42

This whole story will never make sense to me, I’ll never understand how someone could take a pea break and end up 2 miles from where they need to be.

rocketsocks

11-20-2017, 21:44

...and stay there for 26 days while all around you is the most notable search going on in Maine’s history, sumthin’ dosent add up.

Tipi Walter

11-20-2017, 22:00

...and stay there for 26 days while all around you is the most notable search going on in Maine’s history, sumthin’ dosent add up.

Maine Ranger Deb Palman said, "This is some of the worst country in Maine. It's hard to understand how logistically difficult this area was on any given day, by the time a searcher would get close to where Largay was found, they'd have to turn around to make it back to their vehicles by nightfall."

This I find perplexing. I would assume searchers could backpack in and spend the night and continue the search---so they won't have to turn around and "make it back to their vehicles by nightfall."

About 20 years ago I went on a backpacking trip in Pisgah NF with a friend and he had the worst balance of anyone I've ever known. Each step on the trail, some of it rugged, was like watching someone soaked in molasses moving in slow motion. It was mind blowing and infuriating but I kept my mouth shut.

I imagine Geraldine had the same sort of impediment---not lack of balance but maybe terrible spatial awareness.

Maineiac64

11-20-2017, 22:06

I hate to bash a dead person but she was an absolute idiot who should never, ever have hiked alone.

No directional skills. Her actions alone since being lost made no sense. Didn't follow the stream downward. Didn't climb to a peak for cell phone usage.

But worst of all, she couldn't build a sustainable fire.

It's hard to feel sorry for someone so completely devoid of common backpacker knowledge.
I know who to feel sorry for.

rocketsocks

11-21-2017, 08:22

Maine Ranger Deb Palman said, "This is some of the worst country in Maine. It's hard to understand how logistically difficult this area was on any given day, by the time a searcher would get close to where Largay was found, they'd have to turn around to make it back to their vehicles by nightfall."

This I find perplexing. I would assume searchers could backpack in and spend the night and continue the search---so they won't have to turn around and "make it back to their vehicles by nightfall."

About 20 years ago I went on a backpacking trip in Pisgah NF with a friend and he had the worst balance of anyone I've ever known. Each step on the trail, some of it rugged, was like watching someone soaked in molasses moving in slow motion. It was mind blowing and infuriating but I kept my mouth shut.

I imagine Geraldine had the same sort of impediment---not lack of balance but maybe terrible spatial awareness.
Excelent point on the “stay out over night” makes sense. Spatially speaking I’m blessed, but I can’t schpell for shyte, maybe she was a good schpeller.

TexasBob

11-21-2017, 08:32

I hate to bash a dead person but .........

She paid the ultimate price so can't we give her a break?

Slo-go'en

11-21-2017, 12:45

Excelent point on the “stay out over night” makes sense. Spatially speaking I’m blessed, but I can’t schpell for shyte, maybe she was a good schpeller.

To stay overnight, they would have to carry a lot of extra gear and that would slow them down and make bushwhacking a lot harder. It's not like they are just hiking a trail.

Tundracamper

11-21-2017, 12:49

I was on a trail this weekend with lots of leaf cover. I could see how it is easy to lose the trail.

I need to become more familiar with how to off-trail. Any suggestions on where to start?

Tipi Walter

11-21-2017, 12:54

I was on a trail this weekend with lots of leaf cover. I could see how it is easy to lose the trail.

I need to become more familiar with how to off-trail. Any suggestions on where to start?

In the old days I carried relevant 1:24,000 topos of the areas I was backpacking and bushwacking. These help tremendously. A good way to start bushwacking is to follow a creek up or down. You can't ever really get lost on a bushwack if you stick to a creek and use it as your "trail".

rocketsocks

11-21-2017, 13:27

To stay overnight, they would have to carry a lot of extra gear and that would slow them down and make bushwhacking a lot harder. It's not like they are just hiking a trail.I won’t claim to know how to run a search rescue, so point taken.

rocketsocks

11-21-2017, 13:29

In the old days I carried relevant 1:24,000 topos of the areas I was backpacking and bushwacking. These help tremendously. A good way to start bushwacking is to follow a creek up or down. You can't ever really get lost on a bushwack if you stick to a creek and use it as your "trail".which is kinda how my mind works, if I walk 10 min West, then 10 min East should eventually run me across trail, and I got 26 days to find it.

Tipi Walter

11-21-2017, 13:43

which is kinda how my mind works, if I walk 10 min West, then 10 min East should eventually run me across trail, and I got 26 days to find it.

You bring up the good point of being "boxed in" with land features---a road to your west, a creek to your south, a ridge spine to your east---and the trail to your north. Go in any direction (with a good map) and you'll hit one of these features. Impossible to get lost?? NO, because lost hikers tend to not have a decent map and tend to go in circles, thereby actually covering a small area even though walking for several miles.

This reminds me of a lost dayhiker in the Smokies and everyone here on Whiteblaze should study his report---(His name is Mike Gourley)---

http://gosmokies.knoxnews.com/profiles/blogs/bewildered-and-misplaced

This is relevant to the Largay discussion as he was lost for many days and "walked in circles" as shown in his blog map---

40980

Deadeye

11-21-2017, 13:52

I was on a trail this weekend with lots of leaf cover. I could see how it is easy to lose the trail.

I need to become more familiar with how to off-trail. Any suggestions on where to start?

Get the old standby BEWMAC book (Be Expert With Map and Compass), and practice. In New England, it's very easy to know when you're not on the trail - the trees and brush are so dense that it's usually immediately apparent when you stray. Lots of folks get disoriented on the rocky summits and can't find the right trail down, often backtracking or going way down a side trail.

Tipi Walter

11-21-2017, 14:02

Get the old standby BEWMAC book (Be Expert With Map and Compass), and practice. In New England, it's very easy to know when you're not on the trail - the trees and brush are so dense that it's usually immediately apparent when you stray. Lots of folks get disoriented on the rocky summits and can't find the right trail down, often backtracking or going way down a side trail.

You bring up an important point---It's easy to bushwack up a mountain to its summit; it's almost impossible to bushwack down the same mountain and arrive at your starting point. Why? A bushwack route up narrows down to a point---you have only one choice; a bushwack down fans out all over the place with dozens of choices.

Slo-go'en

11-21-2017, 14:07

I got lost this fall just looking for water when I decided to keep going when the trail started to peter out. In the dark, tired, dehydrated, hungry and with a headlamp with weak batteries. If my partner Rafe hadn't gotten worried after I had disappeared for an hour and started blowing his whistle, I would still be there. We'll probably not but I would have had to sit on a rock until morning to find my way back out. I wasn't that far from the campsite, but I was not moving quite in the right direction to find it again. In this case a map would have been useless. What would have helped is if I had brought along my tablet phone which I had been using to track our path all day and it knew where the campsite was.

rocketsocks

11-21-2017, 14:40

You bring up the good point of being "boxed in" with land features---a road to your west, a creek to your south, a ridge spine to your east---and the trail to your north. Go in any direction (with a good map) and you'll hit one of these features. Impossible to get lost?? NO, because lost hikers tend to not have a decent map and tend to go in circles, thereby actually covering a small area even though walking for several miles.

This reminds me of a lost dayhiker in the Smokies and everyone here on Whiteblaze should study his report---(His name is Mike Gourley)---

http://gosmokies.knoxnews.com/profiles/blogs/bewildered-and-misplaced

This is relevant to the Largay discussion as he was lost for many days and "walked in circles" as shown in his blog map---

40980thanks for the link, always interested to learn from other mishaps.

Chair-man

11-21-2017, 15:07

which is kinda how my mind works, if I walk 10 min West, then 10 min East should eventually run me across trail,

This is kinda what I do. When I take a day hike on the FL Trail in the Ocala Forrest I like to step off the trail to have lunch and set up a little mini camp for the afternoon. Before I step off the trail I take a compass heading and write it down and the time of day. When I stop I write the time it took. One time after having lunch I was returning to the trail and I realized I had walked 5 minutes more than it took to walk in. At that moment I realized I was lost (sort of). I check my compass heading to make sure I was returning in the right direction (the Ocala Forrest is pretty flat and everything looks the same). I thought I must not have been paying attention and crossed over the trail and didn't notice it. So I turned around and started walking back in the original direction I went when I stepped off for lunch. Within a few minutes I stepped back onto the trail:). Sure enough, when I was returning from lunch I had stepped right over the trail and didn't know it. In that section, the trail is in a bit of a rut and the grassy vegetation around it made it impossible to see the trail until you're standing on it. Close call. I would not have tried hiking to the nearest road if I were actually lost because there may have been swampy spots.

rhjanes

11-21-2017, 15:21

Replying to post #24....
Take an Orienteering course. Find an Orienteering club near you and go to some meets. You will gain a lot of "woods navigation" confidence. Carry a decent base plate type compass (in the reports, she carried a tiny compass which was of questionable accuracy). It is fairly easy to take a compass bearing, set your direction of travel. So if you are going off to "do some business", first, pick a spot where the woods are less dense. Then, bearing.....Site the bearing but do NOT attempt to eye the compass....hold it up, spot something as far away as you can on that bearing....put compass down and walk to the tree/bush/whatever. You COULD count your steps....but only count like "Left foot down", cuts the number in half that way. Do that perhaps twice and you could be hidden off the trail. To return....don't change the compass, just reverse it (so if you have the North arrow in the 'dog house' as we call it, to return, simply have the South arrow in the "dog house") and count your paces back. You will at least hit the trail. Easy to go to most any decent sized city park near you and try it out.

rocketsocks

11-21-2017, 15:38

You bring up the good point of being "boxed in" with land features---a road to your west, a creek to your south, a ridge spine to your east---and the trail to your north. Go in any direction (with a good map) and you'll hit one of these features. Impossible to get lost?? NO, because lost hikers tend to not have a decent map and tend to go in circles, thereby actually covering a small area even though walking for several miles.

This reminds me of a lost dayhiker in the Smokies and everyone here on Whiteblaze should study his report---(His name is Mike Gourley)---

http://gosmokies.knoxnews.com/profiles/blogs/bewildered-and-misplaced

This is relevant to the Largay discussion as he was lost for many days and "walked in circles" as shown in his blog map---

40980That was some story! And certainly one to learn from. Tom Brown’s book he mentions “The Tracker” is in my library, and is a great book, I liked the trickster wolf reference. Thanks again.

Leo L.

11-21-2017, 15:50

You bring up an important point---It's easy to bushwack up a mountain to its summit; it's almost impossible to bushwack down the same mountain and arrive at your starting point. Why? A bushwack route up narrows down to a point---you have only one choice; a bushwack down fans out all over the place with dozens of choices.

Exactly opposite as it is in the desert.
Going down, you hardly can miss your goal (as long as you are in the correct corrie) - all the gullies will end up concentraing into a single runoff.
Going down, its extremely hard to tell which of the many and ever fanning out gullies you have to take to reach the saddle.

Hollywood44

11-21-2017, 17:19

sad... we will never know what the real story is....#1 question I have is..why did she stop walking/moving???? 18 days to go a couple miles...im going to rethink the SPOT device..we all should

Venchka

11-21-2017, 17:45

...im going to rethink the SPOT device..we all should

Personal Locator Beacon. GPS coordinate transmission. 5 year battery life. Dual high power SOS signals. Waterproof. Floats. No subscription fees. Mature proven technology.
Wayne

Leo L.

11-21-2017, 17:46

Exactly opposite as it is in the desert.
Going down, you hardly can miss your goal (as long as you are in the correct corrie) - all the gullies will end up concentraing into a single runoff.
Going down, its extremely hard to tell which of the many and ever fanning out gullies you have to take to reach the saddle.

Sorry, distracted and tired I wrote complete nonsense.
Going down is easy, going up is difficult.
Thats how it is in the desert

As far as it concerns the sad case of Inchworm (which I was following closely):
I'm wondering that maybe, given the fact that she ended up close to the border, but inside this military area, maybe the civilian SAR didn't like to enter the area too much, and the military ones didn't bother searching places so close to the trail?
Kind of a no man's land, she got stuck into?

Tipi Walter

11-21-2017, 17:50

Personal Locator Beacon. GPS coordinate transmission. 5 year battery life. Dual high power SOS signals. Waterproof. Floats. No subscription fees. Mature proven technology.
Wayne

I'm almost about ready to make such a purchase, probably something like this---

https://www.acrartex.com/products/catalog/personal-locator-beacons/resqlinkplus/#sthash.ZRUUfttO.dpbs

I keep putting it off as my cellphone seems to work 30% of the time and after 40 years of Backsackpackaging I haven't yet needed one. But . . . . ain't getting any younger . . .

And as everyone knows, a PLB in this category is a One Shot Deal, used only for crippling situations; and not necessarily used on the first day of a hike and getting lost. Truly lost by Day 10? Sure, fire that baby up. Partially crushed by a tree in my tent? Sure. Rattlesnake bit? Press YES. Falling with my femur sticking out of my thigh? Yup.

Tipi Walter

11-21-2017, 17:55

As far as it concerns the sad case of Inchworm (which I was following closely):
I'm wondering that maybe, given the fact that she ended up close to the border, but inside this military area, maybe the civilian SAR didn't like to enter the area too much, and the military ones didn't bother searching places so close to the trail?
Kind of a no man's land, she got stuck into?

It was Navy land used I think for Escape and Evasion exercises. Think of the lucky Navy SEAL who could've gotten a medal for finding her in time.

Venchka

11-21-2017, 18:05

I'm almost about ready to make such a purchase, probably something like this---

https://www.acrartex.com/products/catalog/personal-locator-beacons/resqlinkplus/#sthash.ZRUUfttO.dpbs

I keep putting it off as my cellphone seems to work 30% of the time and after 40 years of Backsackpackaging I haven't yet needed one. But . . . . ain't getting any younger . . .

And as everyone knows, a PLB in this category is a One Shot Deal, used only for crippling situations; and not necessarily used on the first day of a hike and getting lost. Truly lost by Day 10? Sure, fire that baby up. Partially crushed by a tree in my tent? Sure. Rattlesnake bit? Press YES. Falling with my femur sticking out of my thigh? Yup.

EXACTLY! I bought my ACR ResQLink+ from REI. With the REI dividend and a $50 rebate from ACR the total was a tad over $200. Mrs. Wayne said that she didn't need to chit chat when I was out in the woods. She wanted me found if something happened. The PLB rides on the shoulder strap of my pack. Don't leave home without it.
Wayne

Tipi Walter

11-21-2017, 18:19

Good idea . . . great idea. Did you send in the paper registration?

Venchka

11-21-2017, 18:35

Good idea . . . great idea. Did you send in the paper registration?
I did register the day it arrived. I test it in my backyard under a tree canopy before leaving on a trip. I think you’re allowed 12 tests. That’s 2+ per year before the battery needs to be replaced. Did I mention that the unit transmits for 24 hours?
Wayne

rocketsocks

11-21-2017, 18:46

EXACTLY! I bought my ACR ResQLink+ from REI. With the REI dividend and a $50 rebate from ACR the total was a tad over $200. Mrs. Wayne said that she didn't need to chit chat when I was out in the woods. She wanted me found if something happened. The PLB rides on the shoulder strap of my pack. Don't leave home without it.
Wayne
Not a bad idea, if I died out in the woods my wife would kill me.

Tipi Walter

11-21-2017, 23:35

Not a bad idea, if I died out in the woods my wife would kill me.

My wife would kill me if I stayed at home.

iAmKrzys

11-21-2017, 23:51

Partially crushed by a tree in my tent?
In a situation like this PLB will work only if you are capable of activating it. The nice thing about Spot is that it has a tracking mode that transmits your location every once in a while, so if you become incapacitated e.g. you slip off a cliff it will keep transmitting even if you cannot press that SOS button. The not-so-nice thing is the subscription fee which actually makes me wonder if I should switch to Garmin inReach.

iAmKrzys

11-22-2017, 00:08

I was on a trail this weekend with lots of leaf cover. I could see how it is easy to lose the trail.
I need to become more familiar with how to off-trail. Any suggestions on where to start?
One thing you can try is geocaching. First learn basics of the game, and once you get an idea how to play it use your gps (or phone) to get (magnetic) bearing & distance to a geocache and then bushwhack using a compass instead of following a trail. Remember to do this in places where it is safe e.g. no cliffs, swamps, dangerous stream crossings etc. Use your gps or phone to keep track where you came from and use your tracks to go back to your starting point if you encounter some obstacles that are difficult to get around. Start small until you gain some experience and feel comfortable with going off trail. Go places with cell phone coverage in case something went really wrong.

El JP

11-22-2017, 03:36

Yeah, I feel like a dinosaur with paper maps and at least a primitive understanding of a compass ... tons of people "see no need" for them anymore. "There's an app for that ... "

I'm bringing a phone and an Ipad with both the Guthook and AWOL guide. However, my primary means of navigational planning and use is the maps for every mile of the trail and a lensatic compass. Don't have to worry about batteries or a signal with them.

Tundracamper

11-22-2017, 06:24

In a situation like this PLB will work only if you are capable of activating it. The nice thing about Spot is that it has a tracking mode that transmits your location every once in a while, so if you become incapacitated e.g. you slip off a cliff it will keep transmitting even if you cannot press that SOS button. The not-so-nice thing is the subscription fee which actually makes me wonder if I should switch to Garmin inReach.

So it does sound like I did "start" correctly, as I do have a PLB.

AmKrzys;2181097: Might want to do more research. A PLB transmitter is notably more powerful than a personal tracker. Plus, the PLB utilizes more than one satellite system and interfaces through a government agency. I personally believe the PLB to be the best option for a last resort call for help.

D2maine

11-22-2017, 06:42

I'm bringing a phone and an Ipad with both the Guthook and AWOL guide. However, my primary means of navigational planning and use is the maps for every mile of the trail and a lensatic compass. Don't have to worry about batteries or a signal with them.

you wont use all that(lensatic compass, Ipad) for the AT, maybe if you got way off trail you would use the compass but the trail itself is basically a hiking superhighway marked with a blaze every 500- 1000 feet through the woods and signs at virtually every road and trail intersection.

also most of the AT is so heavily covered with trees that there is almost no place to shoot good bearings making a lensatic compass virtually useless. just use a basic compass something like Suunto M-3D

jjozgrunt

11-22-2017, 07:07

I come from a country where if you don't have a PLB, especially if solo, youré an idiot, full stop. I can understand if you are on a busy track like the AT not carrying one, but I still did this year on the AT and will again when I finish next year. No matter how experienced you are at navigation and bushcraft, s%$t happens and it's a $200,149 gram insurance policy against becoming a statistic.

D2maine

11-22-2017, 07:26

Sorry, distracted and tired I wrote complete nonsense.
Going down is easy, going up is difficult.
Thats how it is in the desert

As far as it concerns the sad case of Inchworm (which I was following closely):
I'm wondering that maybe, given the fact that she ended up close to the border, but inside this military area, maybe the civilian SAR didn't like to enter the area too much, and the military ones didn't bother searching places so close to the trail?
Kind of a no man's land, she got stuck into?

i think the searchers checked all they could, looking at the gps tracks on this map they were all around her...

https://appalachiantrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/SAR_TRACKLOGS_MAP_MWS_01.jpg

Leo L.

11-22-2017, 11:11

Thanks!
So maybe Inchworm moved around a bit during the first days, by bad luck as if she was hiding from the SAR.

xnav

11-22-2017, 11:33

rickb

11-22-2017, 12:28

I know who to feel sorry for.
Apart from the Inchworm and her family, I feel genuinely sorry for all the S&R people involved. This one had to hit harder than most.

Bronk

11-22-2017, 12:33

I just wouldn't be able to sit in one spot for days and then weeks waiting for someone to find me. I've been lost in the woods before and did exactly what a previous poster suggested...found a spring and followed it until it joined a few other springs and turned into a creek that eventually flowed into a large reservoir. I started at the top of a mountain but I knew there was a road and a campground that ran along the shore of the lake and if I followed that water I would find my way back.

tdoczi

11-22-2017, 12:43

I'm sorry but with maps you need to now where you are in order to know where to go. Inchworms limited abilities in navigation demonstrate the main problem with maps. You have to maintain positional awareness in order to use them. I believe a gps app with directional capability would probably helped her much more, it would have displayed the trail and given her a general direction to walk toward it. I totally support the use of maps in remote wilderness as a foolproof navigation tool, but only if you have the skill to use them. However she had a functioning cell phone and that was probably her best tool if it's full capabilities had been used.
if she had a map and even moderate intelligence she would have seen that there was a road directly downhill from her position.

she wasnt nearly miles out in the middle of nowhere that some stories seem to make it.

anyone else find it odd that the SAR people apparently couldnt make it there in a day because it was so far in, but a TV crew can manage to make it to the spot?

sure, searching s you move is slow, but they cant pick up the next day where they left off?

Leo L.

11-22-2017, 13:16

If the SAR knew where to go, they would have been there within hours.
We had a rather dramatic accident here recently, when a guy fell in a doline, and only in his 4th night out (OK, actually "in" the hole) he managed to message his GPS location - the SAR Team was up and at his point within about 4 hours.

But as the long story of Inchworm got told, they searched at a different area miles off for days due to a reported sighting of Inchworm there - which was wrong. Days later they started from scratch, combing through vast areas.
Why they didn't find her although the above maps indicates that some team member(s) have actually passed by her location - who knows.

rocketsocks

11-22-2017, 13:56

Is it customary for SAR folks to periodically blow whistles and listen for a response along the search route?

HooKooDooKu

11-22-2017, 14:15

This whole story will never make sense to me, I’ll never understand how someone could take a pea break and end up 2 miles from where they need to be.
First of all, Inchworm was not 2 miles away from the AT.
Using Google Earth and images from news stories indicating where her last campsite was found, she was "only" 650 yards (about 1/3 of a mile) from the AT.

Second, apparently you've never dealt with people who have a poor sense of direction.

When I was growing up, my mom had issues on long interstate drives. She would pull off the interstate for dinner or gas, and then get confused about which way to go to get back to the interstate... and then wouldn't be sure which direction to continue on the interstate.

So back when the search for Inchworm was still on-going, the moment I heard she had issues with her sense of direction, I knew what had happened... she hadn't been attacked or fallen off the side of a hill or mountain. She simply turned of the AT to use the bathroom and couldn't find her way back.

While I don't know where she stepped off the trail, if you look in Google Earth in the general area between the AT and where Inchworm's campsite was found, there's large sections of thin forest canopy. LNT principles state that you should deposit waste 200' from the trail. But with the thin forest, I could easily see where Inchworm might have walked 100 yards to find some privacy. When finished, rather than walking back towards the trail, she continued away from it. If she traveled 100 yards off trail to find privacy, she likely walked an additional 150 to 200 yards before she first thought she might be lost. So by the time she fully realized she didn't know where she was, she was already 300 yards from the trail. During the time she wandered around trying to get a cell signal, she only managed to double her distance from the trail relative to the position she was in when she first realized she was lost.

rocketsocks

11-22-2017, 14:30

First of all, Inchworm was not 2 miles away from the AT.
Using Google Earth and images from news stories indicating where her last campsite was found, she was "only" 650 yards (about 1/3 of a mile) from the AT.

Second, apparently you've never dealt with people who have a poor sense of direction.

When I was growing up, my mom had issues on long interstate drives. She would pull off the interstate for dinner or gas, and then get confused about which way to go to get back to the interstate... and then wouldn't be sure which direction to continue on the interstate.

So back when the search for Inchworm was still on-going, the moment I heard she had issues with her sense of direction, I knew what had happened... she hadn't been attacked or fallen off the side of a hill or mountain. She simply turned of the AT to use the bathroom and couldn't find her way back.

While I don't know where she stepped off the trail, if you look in Google Earth in the general area between the AT and where Inchworm's campsite was found, there's large sections of thin forest canopy. LNT principles state that you should deposit waste 200' from the trail. But with the thin forest, I could easily see where Inchworm might have walked 100 yards to find some privacy. When finished, rather than walking back towards the trail, she continued away from it. If she traveled 100 yards off trail to find privacy, she likely walked an additional 150 to 200 yards before she first thought she might be lost. So by the time she fully realized she didn't know where she was, she was already 300 yards from the trail. During the time she wandered around trying to get a cell signal, she only managed to double her distance from the trail relative to the position she was in when she first realized she was lost.
perhaps those spatially challenged shouldn’t attempt a back country trek, this is kinda hiking 101 and to hell with the 200 feet poop loops, tell the bears, squirrels, mice and birds that. I see your points HooKooDoo, but I just can’t get my head around the whole incident.

rocketsocks

11-22-2017, 14:31

Okay, I’ll say it...is it possible Inchworm didn’t want to be found?

Tipi Walter

11-22-2017, 14:38

From Maine Warden Service---
41031

Leo L.

11-22-2017, 14:52

If I were to tell the story to friends in an anecdotical way, I'd say that many issues added up.

Reportedly she had a very poor sense for orientation. A former hiking partner said that she got lost several times through the days, whenever she was out of the guiding eys of her partner.
When she finally realized she was lost in earnest, maybe she remembered to one big rule she had learned in some backcountry survival education: When you are lost, stay put and wait to be found.
She was of a Generation who did not grow up with electronics and don't trust them too much, nor even understand how they work. She left her SPOT in the last hotel, and she didn't know how to use the phone to help her out.

Then, she was on pills to help her angst - and after a few days ran out of these pills. Could easily be that she was more or less in constant panic and fear of life, so for the most time she just hid and kept quiet.
Maybe the SAR guy(s) walked by close, just out of sight and she was too afraid to make her to be known. It was just one or two minutes and the opportunity for rescue had passed before she could get her mind ready.

This is all speculation on my side, putting together pieces and rumors.

D2maine

11-22-2017, 14:59

Is it customary for SAR folks to periodically blow whistles and listen for a response along the search route?

of course and they did

D2maine

11-22-2017, 15:03

snip -

anyone else find it odd that the SAR people apparently couldnt make it there in a day because it was so far in, but a TV crew can manage to make it to the spot?

sure, searching s you move is slow, but they cant pick up the next day where they left off?

you will not find an actual account of the search that backs up any part of this...

Tipi Walter

11-22-2017, 15:06

you will not find an actual account of the search that backs up any part of this...

In two years SARS didn't find her---a survey crew found her.

D2maine

11-22-2017, 15:09

In two years SARS didn't find her---a survey crew found her.

your point would be?

Tipi Walter

11-22-2017, 15:18

your point would be?

My point regards tdoczil's comment---
anyone else find it odd that the SAR people apparently couldnt make it there in a day because it was so far in, but a TV crew can manage to make it to the spot?

And how this relates to Maine Ranger Deb Palman's comment---
"by the time a searcher would get close to where Largay was found, they'd have to turn around to make it back to their vehicles by nightfall."

D2maine

11-22-2017, 15:33

My point regards tdoczil's comment---
anyone else find it odd that the SAR people apparently couldnt make it there in a day because it was so far in, but a TV crew can manage to make it to the spot?

And how this relates to Maine Ranger Deb Palman's comment---
"by the time a searcher would get close to where Largay was found, they'd have to turn around to make it back to their vehicles by nightfall."

how does that relate to a survey crew?

the quote clearly states that the searchers made it there in less than a day and their gps tracks clearly show they searched the area, so i do not see the issue you seem to have. they hiked in searched and hiked out, they also used gps to keep track of previously searched areas to make sure they covered all the likely territory. they also were hampered initially with mis-information as to last known whereabouts.

a lot of people worked very hard trying to find largay, and they were very close to finding per the gps tracks. its a sad tragedy and i feel for her family and for the searchers, many of who continued searching on their own time well after the "official" search was over.

tdoczi

11-22-2017, 16:10

you will not find an actual account of the search that backs up any part of this...

did you watch the video at the link that started this thread?

a TV news crew walks to the spot where they found inchworm.

someone explains that SAR couldnt reach that spot because it is so far into the woods that by the time they got near it the day was over and it was time to go back.

no joke, both of these things are in the exact same video.

D2maine

11-22-2017, 16:32

did you watch the video at the link that started this thread?

a TV news crew walks to the spot where they found inchworm.

someone explains that SAR couldnt reach that spot because it is so far into the woods that by the time they got near it the day was over and it was time to go back.

no joke, both of these things are in the exact same video.

how long do you suppose the news crew was in the area? there is a vast time difference between walking what is now to a known spot and searching an ever increasing search area. i am sure the woman who made that statement was simply trying to convey the difficulty of simply getting to and from the search area.

this video does ok with the facts but there is a lot more information out there detailing the search efforts

rocketsocks

11-22-2017, 17:13

From Maine Warden Service---
41031Yeah, I don’t see how ya cross a water coarse, head uphill, bang a left...and not know traveling down will eventually get ya somewhere other than stuck on the side of a mountain.

rocketsocks

11-22-2017, 17:18

of course and they didwhich is why I say perhaps she didn’t want to be found.

D2maine

11-22-2017, 17:45

report of the finding and a summary of her diary entries and contents of what was found...

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2842887/Geraldine-Largay-Report-Exerpt.pdf

D2maine

11-22-2017, 18:01

warden service video detailing the search

https://youtu.be/-fn0o3uO9Bg

speedbump

11-22-2017, 18:39

Harsh CNeill. I got lost only a few miles from where she got lost. I stepped off the trail and the trail disappeared, that fast. I now carry bright pink ribbon to tie on a tree where I step off and do not loose sight of it. I was lucky, after an hour or so, I found the trail again. This can happen to anyone. Glad to hear you are perfect, with extensive back country skills. Inchworm did nothing wrong. Don't bash her. BTW, have you ever hiked this section ? You cannot judge unless you were there.

I hate to bash a dead person but she was an absolute idiot who should never, ever have hiked alone.

No directional skills. Her actions alone since being lost made no sense. Didn't follow the stream downward. Didn't climb to a peak for cell phone usage.

But worst of all, she couldn't build a sustainable fire.

It's hard to feel sorry for someone so completely devoid of common backpacker knowledge.

tdoczi

11-22-2017, 18:50

how long do you suppose the news crew was in the area? there is a vast time difference between walking what is now to a known spot and searching an ever increasing search area. i am sure the woman who made that statement was simply trying to convey the difficulty of simply getting to and from the search area.

this video does ok with the facts but there is a lot more information out there detailing the search efforts

ive seen all the other data you keep mentioning as well. and i agree, it paints a more clear picture.

i'm merely commenting on and calling BS on what was said in the video this thread is about.

the video leaves out what youre talking about- that search teams actually did walk essentially right by the area in question. it paints as they were close, but never reached it because of time, etc. thats not entirely the same thing.

rocketsocks

11-22-2017, 18:58

Thanks for the links D2maine, had t seen those yet.

tdoczi

11-22-2017, 20:07

BTW, have you ever hiked this section ? You cannot judge unless you were there.
i have hiked this section.

you cross an old gravel road and then head up hill.

she stepped off the trail uphill from the gravel road.

the common assumption is she forgot in which direction she stepped off of the trail in.

but whether or not she stepped off the trail to the right of the trail or the left of the trail, to anyone with a clear head and the ability to think things through rationally, downhill was the way back to the gravel road. once back on the gravel road finding the AT would have been easy, or if at that point youve decided you didnt want to deal with hiking anymore and risk getting lost again, the funny thing about gravel roads is they have to lead to civilization.

but she went uphill to look for a cell signal.

and after 1 or 2 days, it never occurs to her to go back down to the gravel road.

in a round about kind of way one can read this as dependency on her cell phone to save her actually contributed to her death.

Lone Wolf

11-22-2017, 20:30

in a round about kind of way one can read this as dependency on her cell phone to save her actually contributed to her death.[/QUOTE]say it ain't so? happens all the time.

shelb

11-22-2017, 21:30

My heart goes out to her husband. I met him at one point while he was waiting at a trailhead for her. He was passing out hand-carved tokens. I still have the one he gave me....

HooKooDooKu

11-22-2017, 22:22

...once back on the gravel road finding the AT would have been easy...funny thing about gravel roads is they have to lead to civilization...
If a gravel road leads to civilization, then it also leads away. So even if she had returned to the gravel road, nothing says she would have gone the right way to get back to the AT.

So it makes sense that a person with a poor sense of direction could easily get lost. It makes sense that if you want to try to use your phone to call for help, try to go to higher ground. It makes sense that once you know you're lost, don't keep wandering about, sit tight and wait for help to come to you.

The only thing that's not obvious is how searches came so close without Inchworm responding to them. Someone has already put forth something I'd call a "deer in the headlights" kind of theory. I guess it's also possible she was in a deep sleep, even in the middle of he day, anytime searchers were near by. This is perhaps the one part of the puzzle we might never know.

However, one thing I'll mention that not many may realize, but in the woods, a whistle sound doesn't carry very well. I had been told that years ago by an experienced relative. I've since tried putting that to the test while out in the woods. I've found that if someone isn't line of sight to you, it's difficult to hear a whistle from them. Dense trees and hill sides between you and them do a good job of muting the sound.

SkeeterPee

11-22-2017, 23:04

Harsh CNeill. I got lost only a few miles from where she got lost. I stepped off the trail and the trail disappeared, that fast. I now carry bright pink ribbon to tie on a tree where I step off and do not loose sight of it. I was lucky, after an hour or so, I found the trail again. This can happen to anyone. Glad to hear you are perfect, with extensive back country skills. Inchworm did nothing wrong. Don't bash her. BTW, have you ever hiked this section ? You cannot judge unless you were there.

I had a similar experience when camping just off the trail one time, but out of site of the tail. Surprisingly it was very hard to see the trail at that point the next morning. I went back and forth a couple times before I found a point where I actually could see I was on trail.

Suzzz

11-22-2017, 23:30

Blaming Inchworm's lack of this or lack of that is pointless, and in my humble opinion, a lack of respect. Who are we to judge her? Regardless of whether she should or should not have been out there by herself, that she may or may not have made a lot of mistakes, that she lacked the experience and knowledge necessary to get back on track or to find a way to make herself easier to find, that poor woman went through hell. Imagine sitting in your tent and coming to the realization that you'll soon be out of food and that no one is coming. And then, once you are out of food, you have days of being scared, alone, and hungry before you actually die. That's a horrible death.

Instead of criticizing her mistakes or the search and rescue team's efforts, who no doubt worked their butts off to find her, we should learn from all this and strive to be safer on the trail. I always cringe when I read advice given to novice hikers on Whiteblaze about not needing a map or a compass because of the trail being so well marked or even worse, to save a few ounces in the name of the UL Gods. Nobody gets lost ''ON'' the trail. People get lost when they step ''OFF''. That's when you need your map and compass. All two ounces of them. I know, because I weighed them. Electronics are cool and everything (I love my Guthook's by the way), but they weigh a lot more and batteries die. Your map and compass will ALWAYS work. We should all make a point of learning how to use them. How many ounces is your life worth?

Even though her diary provides some clues, we'll never know for sure what really happened out there, why she made the decisions she made, why the search party was unable to locate her and why some things may not add up to some people. Seems to me it was just a perfect storm. After being lost once myself for a few hours, I quickly realized that no matter how much experience, maps and gear you have, once panic sets in, things can rapidly take a turn for the worst and that might be what happened in Inchworm's case... or maybe not. We'll never really know. It's all very sad.

Since my incident, I never set foot on a trail without a paper map and a compass and I get familiar with the map before heading out just to get a general idea of the area. Also, in addition to the Guthook's App, I carry a Spot. It may not keep me from getting lost but I'd like to think that I'm doing everything I can to be safe out there.

El JP

11-23-2017, 04:24

you wont use all that(lensatic compass, Ipad) for the AT, maybe if you got way off trail you would use the compass but the trail itself is basically a hiking superhighway marked with a blaze every 500- 1000 feet through the woods and signs at virtually every road and trail intersection.

also most of the AT is so heavily covered with trees that there is almost no place to shoot good bearings making a lensatic compass virtually useless. just use a basic compass something like Suunto M-3D

Well, i've worked in National Parks that have trails and areas that make the AT blazes and such seem positively primitive by comparison and sure enough, people would get lost on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure that one could easily make their way without problems but why take a chance? No matter where i'm going i will not head out without a map of the area at the very least.

cneill13

11-23-2017, 09:04

rocketsocks

11-23-2017, 09:13

She had with her a map and compass

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2842887/Geraldine-Largay-Report-Exerpt.pdf

D2maine

11-23-2017, 10:31

Well, i've worked in National Parks that have trails and areas that make the AT blazes and such seem positively primitive by comparison and sure enough, people would get lost on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure that one could easily make their way without problems but why take a chance? No matter where i'm going i will not head out without a map of the area at the very least.

never said to not use a map or even recommended a compass so not sure of the argument, just letting you know its not nearly as bad out there as this thread makes it seem.

D2maine

11-23-2017, 10:36

If a gravel road leads to civilization, then it also leads away. So even if she had returned to the gravel road, nothing says she would have gone the right way to get back to the AT.

*snip*

rule of thumb with logging roads in Maine...the intersections almost always point the way out. by that i mean rarely are intersections on the main logging roads at a 90 degree like a street, they are almost always are a y and the y points in the direction of town (easier passage for logging trucks is the reason).

D2maine

11-23-2017, 10:45

Everyone keeps harping on her directional skills which were quite poor.

But no one mentions the obvious, she couldn't even start a fire. And she had two lighters.

She didn't belong in the forest and she paid the ultimate price for her ignorance.

people do funny things when they are lost it induces panic and confusion even in experienced woodsmen. Often people who are lost make irrational decisions because of this so let her memory be a guide to help you clear away the panic and confusion if you are ever unfortunate enough to find yourself in a similar situation.

Colter

11-23-2017, 11:03

There is no single answer in navigation. I've had compasses fail: one literally pointed south after years of pointing north (a magnet had reversed its polarity), one or two others broke. I've found compasses people have lost. I had a set of maps blow away in a windstorm, others were damaged by water. I've ended up walking off my maps for one reason or another. Sometimes maps are wrong. Smart people make mistakes reading maps. I had a GPS freeze up permanently once, too. Can't recall ever running completely out of battery power, but it can happen.

Maps, GPS, compass: they are all just tools, and all are useless if not used properly.

Tipi Walter

11-23-2017, 11:14

Everyone keeps harping on her directional skills which were quite poor.

But no one mentions the obvious, she couldn't even start a fire. And she had two lighters.

She didn't belong in the forest and she paid the ultimate price for her ignorance.

I never build campfires when I'm out on my trips---neither in the winter or the summer---except rarely in Pisgah NF when the summer midges are so bad I need the smoke to keep them away. A fire is vastly overrated. Plus, I don't believe it was the lack of a fire which caused her death---more like starvation.

See this report with this quote---(from Medical Examiner Report)---

"The cause of death was “inanition” — exhaustion caused by lack of nourishment."

https://appalachiantrail.com/20160205/missing-hiker-geraldine-largays-official-medical-examiner-report/

people do funny things when they are lost it induces panic and confusion even in experienced woodsmen. Often people who are lost make irrational decisions because of this so let her memory be a guide to help you clear away the panic and confusion if you are ever unfortunate enough to find yourself in a similar situation.

So true. Reminds me of the time I hiked up a TN creek (Chickasaw Creek) which after a couple miles pours into Tellico River. I followed the creek to the River and stood on a little cleared bluff above the river. I turned around to go back and got into some rivercane---a jungle---and worked my way over to Chickasaw Creek and after about one hard hour ended up on that little Bluff right next to Tellico River! I went in a big circle but was convinced I was going in a straight line. Not nice to fool Uncle Fungus.

HooKooDooKu

11-23-2017, 11:49

I don't believe it was the lack of a fire which caused her death---more like starvation.
I was thinking along the same lines when comments were made about her inability to start a fire. Then I realized that I think the point that was being made was she was unable to start a SIGNAL fire to let S&R locate her.

Old Hiker

11-23-2017, 12:16

Everyone keeps harping on her directional skills which were quite poor.

But no one mentions the obvious, she couldn't even start a fire. And she had two lighters.

She didn't belong in the forest and she paid the ultimate price for her ignorance.

So, now at each trail-head, we are going to have Park Rangers giving tests on wilderness skills BEFORE anyone is allowed into the woods?

Leo L.

11-23-2017, 12:18

Just read about the complete report somebody linked above.
Obviousely she was very well equipped and had every piece of survival/emergency stuff one would carry on a hike.
Three fire ignitors, whistle, spaceblanket, map and compass, flashlight, mobile, tent, sleepingbag. Water.
She didn't mention any major injury in her diaries.

Why she stayed lost and died will remain a mystery.

Old Hiker

11-23-2017, 12:20

Just to hijack the thread a bit:

Wasn't there a Boy Scout bashing thread a while back (years?) where pretty much everything, anyone has said in the above threads about how to get out of the woods was debunked as false? Such as:

1. Follow a stream downhill to civilization.
2. Follow any road out.
3. Carry maps and compass - (forest may be too thick to see the features around you).
4. Rub 2 Cub Scouts together to start a fire.

Etc. etc. etc.

gpburdelljr

11-23-2017, 12:41

There were 2679 posts in the original thread, and I doubt there is anything new to say or learn.

https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/119086-Inchworms-Journal-during-26-days-lost-newest-report/page134?highlight=Inchworm

Let her rest in peace.

Tundracamper

11-23-2017, 13:30

In hindsight, it does seem odd that one gets on a trail to hike thousands of miles, gets lost, and then stops. Why not just start hiking in the woods. Eventually you hit something, right? In that area how far could it have been to a major road? Was it really that far?

Colter

11-23-2017, 19:03

According to the report linked above, she apparently had lit two standing trees and one fallen tree on fire: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2842887/Geraldine-Largay-Report-Exerpt.pdf

Emerson Bigills

11-23-2017, 22:12

I would have probably thought that was an option, however having hiked that section in June, the trail up to Spaulding Mtn and then up Sugarloaf is some of the most dense and rough terrain I have ever seen. If you wander off the trail it is so thick and rocky you can hardly keep moving at all. I honestly would think that heading down the slope and looking for a stream or creek would be the best bet. Having said that, I cannot imagine bushwacking in that section. There were times in ME, where I would literally hike for 3-4 hours and not see one spot anywhere that I thought I could pitch my one person tent. Maine shocked me with how tough the terrain, and the trail is.

Another Kevin

11-24-2017, 16:31

In fairness, a very large number of thru hikers aren't skilled in backcountry off trail travel. In fact, probably the majority. Definitely including me - I don't know much about off trail travel. Her major mistake was going too far off the AT to relieve herself and then she couldn't find the trail. That modesty cost her life.

I hope that what happened to Inchworm motivates more hikers to learn basic land navigation skills. "Everyone else is doing it" doesn't mean that you should go unprepared!

One advantage of being a fairly seasoned bushwhacko is that I'm not given to panic when I find that I've lost a trail. It just means that the hike has turned into an off-trail trip. It also means that I've outgrown the advice of "stay put and wait for rescue", which is fine for eleven-year-old boy scouts who are a few hundred yards from a campground and who will be missed within the hour, not so fine for grownups on multi-day solo trips. Self-rescue is the best kind of rescue.

piscatore

11-24-2017, 16:41

It's all in the book, due out next summer. Hope it helps you understand how/what happened-- and others to survive if they get lost. Cheers, D. Dauphinee

piscatore

11-24-2017, 16:45

You're right, Tipi W...some of the Navy SERE searchers did stay in the woods. There's so much more to the story than what was written; I hope you like the book. Out next summer, it is a homage to Inchworm while offering lessons to those of us without backcountry skills. Cheers! D. Dauphinee

Another Kevin

11-24-2017, 16:59

If a gravel road leads to civilization, then it also leads away. So even if she had returned to the gravel road, nothing says she would have gone the right way to get back to the AT.
A road always goes somewhere. Nobody troubles to build a road that doesn't have a destination at the other end. If you're lost, and you come to a road, pick a direction and start walking. If the destination is just the patch that someone's logged, you'll know you've hit the end, backtrack and the town is the other way. If you have a map (and if you don't have one, why are you Out There?) maybe you can even figure out what road it is and where it goes, but you at least have a broad, flat, marked way back to civilization.

It makes sense that once you know you're lost, don't keep wandering about, sit tight and wait for help to come to you.

If you haven't even rudimentary skills to become unlost - maybe. It's fine advice for eleven-year-old Boy Scouts, as I said above. Otherwise, "downhill goes to water, downstream goes to a road, a road goes to a town" is pretty much always true in the East, and will generally get you out within a day or so. Make that a couple or three days if you're deep in backcountry in the Adirondacks, the Whites, or the Unorganized Territory. And if you're in country like that, have enough skills that you can detour around the occasional waterfall when you're following the stream. :)

In any case: learn and practice enough bushwhacking that you at least will continue to be clear-headed after you've lost a trail, and you'll be way ahead of the game.

And yes, I have lost a trail (a seldom-traveled one, very intermittently blazed) before, and followed a stream that brought me out to a Nordic ski resort. The caretaker said that they got lost hikers all the time because all the drainages funneled their way (and the experienced hikers all know about following a stream out). Note that I phrased that, "lost the trail." I knew where I was. I didn't know where the trail was. Where I was hiking doesn't get very many inexperienced hikers - the country is pretty forbidding, and none of the big-name trails go there. It's gorgeous, but the newbies seem to know they don't belong there.

piscatore

11-24-2017, 17:03

So right, EB, I try to convey that in the book.-Dee

piscatore

11-24-2017, 17:07

Bingo! (This is Dee Dauphineee...the author of the book.) But there's a lot more interesting stuff in it. But...Bingo!

piscatore

11-24-2017, 17:09

Hey shelb, This is Dee (author of the book). I've heard of those tokens; do you have a photo of it, or could you snap a pic please? I'd love to see one. email: [email protected]

piscatore

11-24-2017, 17:17

Bingo Suzzz, You more than most should enjoy the book (out next season). You bring up most of the points that made me agree (reluctantly) to write this book. (I was under contract for a novel which I had to break when I agreed to Gerry's story.) I think and hope you will approve of it if you read it. It is very difficult to write, but I hope that it will endear even more people to such a wonderful woman- and offer lessons for future hikers.--Dee Dauphinee "Piscatore"

Another Kevin

11-24-2017, 17:21

Oh, and here's a little tip. When I leave the trail to do my business or to stealth-camp, I set my compass to the direction that I walked. (Put the south end of the needle in the house and it points the way back.) I also, because I'm stupid, wrap the lanyard around the compass in the direction that I left the trail. If I turned right off the trail, I need to turn right when I get back.

I got in this habit after one morning when I packed up and realized that I had no clue which side of the trail my campsite was on. I bushwhacked up to a col that I knew the trail went through, but that was about 3/4 of a mile in beech whips and young hemlocks. Not really pleasant when you think that I was only sixty yards from the trail the whole way up. I even tried intentionally zigzagging, but apparently never zigged far enough actually to reach the trail until I was at my aiming point. It's even possible that I crossed it a few times. The blazing was intermittent, and when I registered, the book showed only four other names for the previous month. The photos show one of the sections where at least the paint was fairly fresh, but it surely felt like bushwhacking from blaze to blaze.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7090/14018094576_c8811a387d_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nmJp8N)
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7306/14038042332_8edefaa9d1_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nouCUC)

TJ aka Teej

11-24-2017, 17:57

piscatore

11-24-2017, 18:06

Some family and friends-- but George wanted to not be involved...surely he still morns, and I respect that, so I've left him alone. Didn't want to put him in an uncomfortable position. The best sources were her best friends, from childhood on up. Very giving people. The Gerry parts are very respectful and written with admiration- but much of the book is about the S&R communities, the Navy, and "lost person behavior." Cheers--

peeeeetey

11-24-2017, 21:35

AVENZA!! for cell phones.

El JP

11-25-2017, 05:59

never said to not use a map or even recommended a compass so not sure of the argument, just letting you know its not nearly as bad out there as this thread makes it seem.

No worries.

I've read enough hiker journals to know it is entirely possible to hike the AT using nothing but the blazes. After hearing of and reading about dozens of lost hikers plus prior training, i just can't force myself to go out there without map/compass.

piscatore

11-25-2017, 07:58

Good point, C...covered in the book: the Navy searchers, the wardens, and some of the volunteers were using three different types of maps, with differing datums!

rickb

11-25-2017, 08:21

Thanks for joining the discussion, Dee. Was your book written with cooperation from her family?

I would be interested in knowing if the Maine Warden Service cooperated — and if those directly involved in coordinating the search were willing to go on the record after you reached out to them.

Also interested if you quoted any of the speculative posts here on Whiteblaze going on at the time.

Berserker

11-27-2017, 14:07

First off I want to state that any comment I make is in no way intended to be offensive to the deceased as there's some really...ummmm to be frank, just plain mean comments in some of the posts on this thread. There's better ways to state one's opinion than to become derogatory.

and nobody carries paper maps any more. very foolish not to. very foolish to count on electronics
Yes this ^

I feel super old school whipping my paper map out to see where I'm at, but then I remember that if doodoo hits the fan that map may be the key to getting me out of there. It's always a good idea to have a map and periodically keeping up with one's location on the map. I've seen way too much reliance on only electronic devices and/or the AT guides (primarily AWOL's, which has no maps).

Another Kevin

11-27-2017, 14:29

I feel super old school whipping my paper map out to see where I'm at, but then I remember that if doodoo hits the fan that map may be the key to getting me out of there. It's always a good idea to have a map and periodically keeping up with one's location on the map. I've seen way too much reliance on only electronic devices and/or the AT guides (primarily AWOL's, which has no maps).

Equally important is the level of "situational awareness" that keeps track of "the ground generally falls off to the south around here, there's a stream west of the trail that crosses a highway a couple of miles south," or whatever the escape route is. With experience, a quick glance at a map is enough to keep that much in memory, so that even if the wind rips the map out of your hands, you still have an exit plan.

And I'll underline, "no disrespect to Inchworm." I think that likely the best way to respect her memory is to try to keep others from meeting the same horrific end.

piscatore

11-30-2017, 13:00

Hi, rickb--The Maine Warden Service has been great. Interviews, emails, ride-alongs...very helpful. It still stings for them, though. I have spoken with a few of the volunteers, but I've focused mostly on the professionals and the few volunteers who were at least in the vicinity. Having worked in SAR for years, I pretty much know their mindset. The Navy guys and a retired ME game warden (who now runs K9's) got the closest to Gerry. I have a few quotes from White Blaze that were discussed with Inchworm's sister but haven't used them yet. Probably will next chapter.--Cheers. Dee

iAmKrzys

11-30-2017, 23:49

There is no single answer in navigation. I've had compasses fail: one literally pointed south after years of pointing north (a magnet had reversed its polarity), one or two others broke.

Wow! One of my compasses reversed as well this year, and it really confused me at first! I began to doubt if I remembered the rhyme "put the red in the shed" correctly until I had a chance to place it side-by-side with my other compasses. I don't know what could have caused it but it was a really strange experience. Luckily I had my GPS with me and I also had a pretty good idea where I was supposed to go.

piscatore

01-26-2018, 15:16

Tipi--I've read your posts, and you're spot on. In the book, I go into the spatial orientation some people have/don't have in some detail. There are some lessons in the book, especially for you young hikers among us. I certainly hope you get to read it when it comes out. Gerry was a wonderful person. --Dee; www.ddauphinee.com

piscatore

01-26-2018, 15:17

piscatore

01-26-2018, 15:21

Shelb...could you please snap a photo of the token and send it to me? I'd love to see it. Thanks! --Dee... [email protected]

piscatore

02-11-2019, 19:38

For # 73...

I took us 4 hours to walk straight in from the closest place to park. I had already been into the site several times, so I knew where we were going. We spent about 1 1/2 hours there before hiking out. Cheers--Dee

Mother Natures Son

02-11-2019, 20:01

4eyedbuzzard

02-11-2019, 23:17

There are some people in this world who don't belong in the woods! The first thing they drilled into our heads as Scouts was how not to get lost in the woods. (Any ex-Scouts out there?) No matter what, you knew what to do if fate dealt you a bad hand."Well, I think we tried very hard not to be overconfident, because when you get overconfident, that's when something snaps up and bites you." - Neil Armstrong

Game Warden

02-19-2019, 23:41

In my Army days, I was part of a search for a missing soldier in Camp Bullis, Texas. She was found perched on a big boulder about 50 yards from a road. She had seen search vehicles going by, calling her by name over the loudspeaker, but was literally too afraid to get off her rock and walk to the road in the dark. I've been involved in other searches since then, and none of them made any sense. Trying to analyze or predict or explain a lost person's behavior is impossible, beyond the maximum distance a skilled wilderness athlete could have traveled in a certain time in a certain region. Also, SAR is a very "niche" skill; most folks who write about it haven't been involved in many real searches. I've been a military policeman and game warden since 1987, and I can count my SARs on my fingers. I admit I know very little, which is the first step to knowledge.

bighammer

02-20-2019, 21:39

Poop on the trail. The life you save may be your own.

Mouser999

02-21-2019, 11:44

Wheni get off trail to "go" i have a small light that set to flash and put on top of my pack. I just look for the flashing light to guide me back. Its about the size of the tip of my thumb

LazyLightning

02-21-2019, 21:30

I now have a bunch of fishing line to tie around a tree close to trail and reel back up thanks to the suggestion from somebody I met on trail. I don't actually have a reel so it's by hand but a tiny little lightweight reel would be nice. Much better option then pooping on trail, which I actually saw right directly on the AT last year. That must have been some jerk doing it on purpose... or maybe somebody hiking in the dark not afraid of anyone seeing? … toilet paper and all in the middle of the trail.

TwoSpirits

02-22-2019, 06:26

I have hiked through a few areas that were so incredibly dense that I could easily understand how someone might lose the trail after just a few feet. If I ever have to leave that kind of trail to attend to business, I now have a few pieces of bright green/reflective surveyor's tape in my lil' poop kit...I tie one around a branch within sight of the trail, then another one within sight of that. I collect them as I walk back.

I do know how to use my map & compass, which I do bring on everything including dayhikes, but this has been a very easy and helpful trick (at least the two times I've used it.)

Inchworm's story was cautionary tale, as was Aaron Ralston's (the guy who had to cut off his own arm.) I'm a firm believer that personal experience is the best teacher, but I also try to learn as much (or more) from other people's experiences -- both good and bad.

Good luck with your book.

Five Tango

02-22-2019, 08:53

I carry a few pieces of marking tape but have yet to need it.At night I find my way back to my tarp with reflective tape on a hiking pole.Reflective tape on hiking poles and bear bags is incredible if you have a decent pen light.

But staying on topic here,Mrs Largay would most likely have been rescued had she been able to maintain a fire and burn resinous material like evergreens etc.Smoke can be seen for miles by search and rescue.I think I read somewhere that she did attempt a fire unsuccessfully.We have no idea what sort of physical condition she was in.
What we do know is that she had completed many miles of trail before tragedy ensued and I respect that.

bighammer

02-22-2019, 09:42

Trillium

02-24-2019, 15:39

It's all in the book, due out next summer. Hope it helps you understand how/what happened-- and others to survive if they get lost. Cheers, D. Dauphinee

This post was written 11-24-2017 so I thought that the book would be out in summer 2018. I followed the link to the author's website which said the book is available for preorder. When I followed that link, it says the book will be out June 2019. I'm not one to preorder but I will buy it when it is out. Here's the url in case anyone wants to preorder: https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781608936908/When-You-Find-My-Body-The-Disappearance-of-Geraldine-Largay-on-the-Appalachian-Trail

Thanks to those who had positive suggestions in this thread for those of us who are not expert woodspeople. I've written several down that I think will help me.

MuddyWaters

02-24-2019, 22:47

But staying on topic here,Mrs Largay would most likely have been rescued had she been able to maintain a fire and burn resinous material like evergreens etc.Smoke can be seen for miles by search and rescue.I think I read somewhere that she did attempt a fire unsuccessfully.We have no idea what sort of physical condition she was in.
What we do know is that she had completed many miles of trail before tragedy ensued and I respect that.
She would have been rescued if any of a dozen things were done different.

It was a perfect storm for her, and each opportunity to turn things around didn't work out in her favor.

Five Tango

02-25-2019, 10:01

tdoczi

02-25-2019, 10:05

It's my understanding that the only navigational aid she had was a cheap button compass.The one I had on a keychain failed pretty quickly.I never used it though as I always have a Real compass in my pocket and larks headed onto my belt.(yes,I learned as a child that you really do walk in circles unless you have a compass or something like a stream,fence,or road to follow.)If the sun is out and you have a watch,you can also navigate by knowing time of day. https://geographyfieldwork.com/WatchasCompass.htm

that or, you know, remember that you just crossed a road at the bottom of the hill you're currently climbing up because you're trying to find a cell signal.

the best compass money can buy isn't going to save someone who can rationally think their way through the situation.

4eyedbuzzard

02-25-2019, 18:50

She would have been rescued if any of a dozen things were done different.

It was a perfect storm for her, and each opportunity to turn things around didn't work out in her favor.

It's my understanding that the only navigational aid she had was a cheap button compass.The one I had on a keychain failed pretty quickly.I never used it though as I always have a Real compass in my pocket and larks headed onto my belt.(yes,I learned as a child that you really do walk in circles unless you have a compass or something like a stream,fence,or road to follow.)If the sun is out and you have a watch,you can also navigate by knowing time of day. https://geographyfieldwork.com/WatchasCompass.htm

that or, you know, remember that you just crossed a road at the bottom of the hill you're currently climbing up because you're trying to find a cell signal.

the best compass money can buy isn't going to save someone who can rationally think their way through the situation.
According to her hiking partner who had left the trail in NH, Gerry had a terrible sense of direction - she was reported to not remember/know which way to go after taking a break, wander off on the wrong trail at intersections, etc. She had waterproof matches, etc., when found and had tried to start a fire, but not succeeded. She also had run out of her depression/anxiety meds at some point. So, yeah, a perfect storm, but part of that storm seems to have been a lack of skills/awareness and perhaps even resignation to her fate. It's a sad tale, but honestly, many if not most people probably would have survived and "got themselves found" in a similar situation.

MuddyWaters

02-25-2019, 20:52

According to her hiking partner who had left the trail in NH, Gerry had a terrible sense of direction - she was reported to not remember/know which way to go after taking a break, wander off on the wrong trail at intersections, etc. She had waterproof matches, etc., when found and had tried to start a fire, but not succeeded. She also had run out of her depression/anxiety meds at some point. So, yeah, a perfect storm, but part of that storm seems to have been a lack of skills/awareness and perhaps even resignation to her fate. It's a sad tale, but honestly, many if not most people probably would have survived and "got themselves found" in a similar situation.
Of course.

Had she not left spot in hotel.....
Had she successfully started a fire....
Had she explored farther around her.....
Had she payed attention to surroundings leaving trail....
Had she at least known what direction she left the trail...
Had she known how to use map/compass she had...
Had she stayed put at first sign of being lost, while still near trail...

Sad story...thats the thing about it. But yeah, it comes down to lack of awareness and lack of skills, and a perfect storm of conditions that challenged what she did have.... and overcame her in each case.

piscatore

05-06-2019, 14:50

I know who to feel sorry for.
Agree, Mainiac64.

piscatore

05-06-2019, 14:56

Well said, Suzzz. I hope you get a chance to read the book. I think you'll be happy with it.--Dee www.ddauphinee.com

Dogwood

05-06-2019, 21:50

Trying to analyze or predict or explain a lost person's behavior is impossible...

S&R analyzes common behavioral patterns of those that get lost in applying their S&R methods. There're commonality traits among those that get found and survive too. Search teams typically create individual profiles for the one being sought. All this info, as well as other data, is cumulatively investigated and applied to search and rescue approaches.

cneill13

05-07-2019, 14:46

MuddyWaters

05-08-2019, 05:20

Trying to analyze or predict or explain a lost person's behavior is impossible, beyond the maximum distance a skilled wilderness athlete could have traveled in a certain time in a certain region. Also, SAR is a very "niche" skill; most folks who write about it haven't been involved in many real searches. I've been a military policeman and game warden since 1987, and I can count my SARs on my fingers. I admit I know very little, which is the first step to knowledge.
Ive read many accounts from national parks.
In many cases, people dont behave logically, at all.

Many people will attempt shortcuts, with a poor sense of direction. Yep, they wander in circles too often.
There is an almost irrational determination to continue with a poor choice once its made.
Reluctance to abandon poor choices due to invested effort , etc until totally lost, or stuck where cannot continue.

rhjanes

05-08-2019, 09:48

There is an almost irrational determination to continue with a poor choice once its made.
Reluctance to abandon poor choices due to invested effort , etc until totally lost, or stuck where cannot continue.
I've been doing the sport of Orienteering for over 10 years now. When you start doing advanced courses, a well designed course usually has two or more "route choices" for each leg. Then there are the less obvious routes for each leg. One tough thing for me was learning to DUMP my route choice when it didn't work. The earlier you toss it in, the less time is wasted on the course/leg. But it is hard to do! "Don't want to give up on this route" mentality. Another thing that hits after you dump the route, is that you have to "relocate". Go back to the last known point you have and you are SURE of on the map.
It takes a mindset to get this stuff. With her other issues, yep, perfect (sad) storm.
RIP

rickb

05-08-2019, 12:31

Not exactly a perfect storm.

Since she was being ,ET at road crossings, a search was initiated without much delay in a relatively well defined area.

Unlike many lost people she was sufficiently equipped to survive the elements for many days — and did.

The search effort was conducted on a large scale.

piscatore

08-06-2019, 18:49

Hi Folks-- Just seeing this now!

The immediate family didn't contribute much, but I communicated with them before starting and said if they objected, I woud not write the book. They didn't.
I didn't quote from Whiteblaze because I asked a few people but didn't hear back in time, but I thanked WB in the Acknowledgments. There were a few from here: Katherine, Peter, Tom, and others. They were quoted directly and attributed.

Thanks all... hope you like the book.

(Incidentally; I've had nearly 200 emails through my website from hikers saying after they read the book they purchased a compass and took -or are taking- an orienteering class. So happy about that!)

Dee
www.ddauphinee.com