View Full Version : Where is the remotest spot in the United States?
gpburdelljr
12-01-2017, 11:15
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42104894
glenlawson
12-01-2017, 11:31
this is very cool. and I'm also glad they didn't tell us where they are.
illabelle
12-01-2017, 14:30
An interesting project.
Reminds me of something:
We own 12.5 acres in a rural location, about half wooded, half open. A few years ago I built a little trail on our property. About a mile long, it winds in and out of the woods, and sometimes across the field. The interesting thing about it is that until building the trail, there were many small parts of this land that we own that I had never walked on. My land, but it was just there, as a buffer between us and the neighbors, a home for possums and crows and skunks. Even the parts we mow didn't get walked on much. There's a well-worn path from the house to the shed, to the chickenhouse, to the garden, but other than that and an acre right around the house, that's all we really travel. So here's all this land within a few minutes' walk, and it's essentially untouched wilderness. Not remote in the sense of the linked article, but maybe remote in some other way, maybe kinda like being "alone" in a roomful of people. I see this kind of untouched land all the time. It's there in the woodsy median on the highway, between the creek and the parking lot, on the steep bank behind the shopping center, etc.
I haven't maintained my trail in more than a year. I think maybe I need to get Out There!*
*Credit to Another Kevin for this phrase.
this is very cool. and I'm also glad they didn't tell us where they are.
It’s not a very carefully kept secret.
The cabin that they were sad to see in Wyoming is the Hawks Rest Patrol Cabin. South of Yellowstone National Park.
I have seen a list of remote locations on the internet. If I find again I’ll post a link.
There really aren’t that many secrets about the USA left.
Wayne
As usual, the Internet contradicts itself.
The Thorofare Patrol Cabin is listed as being closer to the most remote spot in the contiguous 48 states.
Suffice to say, the area between the two patrol cabins is remote.
Wayne
gpburdelljr
12-01-2017, 23:28
It’s not a very carefully kept secret.
The cabin that they were sad to see in Wyoming is the Hawks Rest Patrol Cabin. South of Yellowstone National Park.
I have seen a list of remote locations on the internet. If I find again I’ll post a link.
There really aren’t that many secrets about the USA left.
Wayne
Please don’t post a link to the list. It may be already out on the net, but every posting makes it easier to find.
"Most remote places in the lower 48" makes a very interesting web search . JS.
Please don’t post a link to the list. It may be already out on the net, but every posting makes it easier to find.
Fair enough.
Wayne
MisterMoon
12-02-2017, 11:18
I don't understand them being so coy about where these places are. It's not like they're the first person to ever go there. I've been to the FL location, which has another much less obscure name than they call it. It's a very popular destination for beach camping the within ENP.
gpburdelljr
12-02-2017, 11:56
I don't understand them being so coy about where these places are. It's not like they're the first person to ever go there. I've been to the FL location, which has another much less obscure name than they call it. It's a very popular destination for beach camping the within ENP.
The appeal of these kind of places is that they are remote and largely unspoiled by overcrowding. It takes significant effort to research and find these places, and most people are too lazy to put in the effort. As soon as you publish the exact locations, however, more and more people start going and it is no longer a wild and remote place. The ones that had to work hard to find such places are the most likely to respect such places and LNT, whereas the ones given easy access, with no work on their part, are the ones most likely to trash such places.
Reminds me of that time on the AT that I camped along a ridgeline...started setting up camp in the early evening. I had this feeling that I was in a really remote area, far from people or civilization. And then it got dark and I was surrounded by lights from houses I couldn't see through the trees.
Last Call
12-02-2017, 16:59
Black Mesa in Oklahoma is fairly remote, also Oklahoma's high point....
Odd Man Out
12-02-2017, 19:04
I thought the remotest place in the lower 48 was in SEKI NP.
colorado_rob
12-02-2017, 20:11
Black Mesa in Oklahoma is fairly remote, also Oklahoma's high point....yep, that place is way out there.... Cool little hike though. Black mesa is in the only county in the USA that touches 5 states. OK, CO, TX, NM and KS.
What interests me the most is the place in the USA that has the darkest sky.. I believe this place is in Utah.
peakbagger
12-03-2017, 07:34
One of the issue with computer assisted lists in my area is that most road databases dont deal well with private roads. Look at a road map of state and local roads in Maine and you will come to the conclusion that the 1/4 or more of the state roughly northwest of BSP is remote. Yet when you add in the private logging roads you will find that even though very few folks live there there are private roads to most areas, the main line roads tend to be kept open long term while some roads are only passable when logging operations are in effect. The other aspect is it may be remote on the ground but not in the air. Much of NW Maine is a Military Operations Area where low altitude military aircraft train. When they are training they may be running 100 feet above the ground.
Toolshed
12-03-2017, 07:47
Having spent many many years hiking and climbing in the DAKs, and hiking the NPT, the most remote point was pretty much in the vicinity where I figured it was and these folks found it. https://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2012/08/adirondacks-most-remote-spot-not-that-remote.html
yep, that place is way out there.... Cool little hike though. Black mesa is in the only county in the USA that touches 5 states. OK, CO, TX, NM and KS.
What interests me the most is the place in the USA that has the darkest sky.. I believe this place is in Utah.
Big Bend NP is probably in the Top 10. Stanley, ID is applying for Extreme Dark Sky or something like that status. I’m sure Utah has dark sky as well. There’s a stretch of highway in northern New Mexico that is very dark. There aren’t enough people there to apply for the designation.
How about the place in Colorado that is farthest from:
Starbucks?
Walmart?
Google knows.
Wayne
lonehiker
12-03-2017, 10:09
The night sky is pretty amazing in BBNP.
I looked it up and in my own state it is the Gila Wilderness (National Forest). Of course there are even easy trails there. I hadn't thought about it but I imagine the night sky is very amazing out there. I'm planning to take a trip there this winter to some hot springs. Population is about 100 in some of the "big towns".
The night sky is pretty amazing in BBNP.
So I’ve been told. Big Bend is calling and I must go!
Wayne
somers515
12-03-2017, 17:10
yep, that place is way out there.... Cool little hike though. Black mesa is in the only county in the USA that touches 5 states. OK, CO, TX, NM and KS.
What interests me the most is the place in the USA that has the darkest sky.. I believe this place is in Utah.
I share your thoughts colorado_rob. Remote to me has to factor in the darkness of the sky.
When I visited Bryce Canyon National Park in Utah I believe there was some educational material on it being a dark sky location, the materials possibly even suggested it was one of the darkest spots in the lower 48.
You might find this website helpful: http://darksitefinder.com/maps/world.html
Studying this map and when there was a new moon allowed me to see the milky way with my own eyes for the first time during my LT hike.
As you can see for us mid-atlantic folk there isn't a lot of dark sky nearby, the Adirondacks are good, and there are some spots in western PA and WV, but for real dark skies we need to go west!
There are people who try to encourage others to think about ways we can all try to reduce light pollution and it's not something I personally had given a lot of thought about until I got older and wiser.
Odd Man Out
12-03-2017, 22:07
Here's a guy who used on line mapping to determine the McFurthest spot, the place in the 48 states furthest from a McDonalds.
http://www.datapointed.net/2010/09/distance-to-nearest-mcdonalds-sept-2010/
Another Kevin
12-03-2017, 23:06
Having spent many many years hiking and climbing in the DAKs, and hiking the NPT, the most remote point was pretty much in the vicinity where I figured it was and these folks found it. https://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2012/08/adirondacks-most-remote-spot-not-that-remote.html
I've been to Ouluska Pass, also. The 'just five miles from the nearest road' is horse hockey. It's five miles from the Ward Brook and Calkins Creek truck trails. Those show up as roads on a lot of maps, but nobody's driven on them in fifty years and they're grown to trees. It's more like eighteen miles from Averyville, Henderson Lake, Corey's Carry or Long Lake and a road that someone could drive on without a bulldozer today.
I've been to Ouluska Pass, also. The 'just five miles from the nearest road' is horse hockey. It's five miles from the Ward Brook and Calkins Creek truck trails. Those show up as roads on a lot of maps, but nobody's driven on them in fifty years and they're grown to trees. It's more like eighteen miles from Averyville, Henderson Lake, Corey's Carry or Long Lake and a road that someone could drive on without a bulldozer today.
Thanks Kevin!
That’s the type of local knowledge that the couple who are “discovering” the remote spots need to incorporate into their data. 18 miles would place this spot very close to the distance from roads of the location in Wyoming mentioned in several articles online.
Wayne
as hikers, I think the real question would be the most remote as far as accessible to foot traffic only
- so not practical for off road vehicles, water landings, or even say too rough/ wooded to be practical for helicopter
The Old Chief
12-04-2017, 10:09
Don't know if it's the most remote but what about the so called "Zone of Death" in Yellowstone Park where there's a good argument that you can commit any crime and not be punished?
Logger's Lake Missouri is one of the darkest places in the United States. Star gazers drive from all over the midwest to camp there because there is so little light pollution.
The Kisco Kid
12-04-2017, 10:50
I can confirm that the stars are very very bright (and the sky extremely dark) in Big Bend and surrounding areas!
colorado_rob
12-04-2017, 13:04
I can confirm that the stars are very very bright (and the sky extremely dark) in Big Bend and surrounding areas! Yep, we just spent a week down there with clear skies the entire time....
Here is a great interactive map of the entire world, zoom around and play with the contrast slider... Sorry you USA easterners! And the poor Europeans.... Of course, my immediate city is no better....
http://darksitefinder.com/maps/world.html
Don't know if it's the most remote but what about the so called "Zone of Death" in Yellowstone Park where there's a good argument that you can commit any crime and not be punished?
I’m having a hard time making sense out of that.
Technically, every square inch of a National Park is subject to Federal Law.
Internet myth and legend? Old wive’s tale? I’m confused as usual.
Wayne
You have me all intrigued re: the Zone of Death. What I was reading though is that it's not only because it's so remote, but that it is in a legal no man's land. It's in Idaho where no one lives, that's the remote part , but they couldn't try the case in Wyoming which is the federal district because you have to try the case where the crime was committed.
The Old Chief
12-05-2017, 10:01
I’m having a hard time making sense out of that.
Technically, every square inch of a National Park is subject to Federal Law.
Internet myth and legend? Old wive’s tale? I’m confused as usual.
Wayne
Evidently it's been debated a lot by legal people over the years and there have been several unsuccessful attempts in Congress to pass a law to cover this area. A good book to read is "Free Fire" by C.J. Box about Yellowstone and this 50 square miles of parkland.
Ok. I think I get it now.
The Yellowstone NP boundary includes Wyoming, Montana and Idaho. Apparently there is a Federal-State tug of war over jurisdiction, etc.
The remote point and surrounding access paths lie entirely within Wyoming. Illegal hunting practices seem to be the major problem. The Grizz don’t mind and aren’t talking.
Wayne
I was right and wrong about Federal jurisdiction in Yellowstone. Sorry about that.
I did answer a question I had: Yellowstone NP is larger than Rhode Island and Delaware combined.
I thought Congress worked slow. The Yellowstone jurisdictional mess is over 120 years old and Congress has yet to fix it.
Go figure.
Wayne
I was right and wrong about Federal jurisdiction in Yellowstone. Sorry about that.
I did answer a question I had: Yellowstone NP is larger than Rhode Island and Delaware combined.
I thought Congress worked slow. The Yellowstone jurisdictional mess is over 120 years old and Congress has yet to fix it.
Go figure.
Wayne
Its what I would have thought, Wayne. I suppose it would take a real violent crime that someone got away with. There have been no incidents (as far as I read anyway, except for the odd elk pouching). I'm gathering most people don't go there to commit murder?
ScareBear
12-05-2017, 20:18
All of southern Utah is frigging remote. Bryce Canyon is remote as hell. Cedar Breaks is even more remote. If you think about it, Brian Head is the most remote public ski area in the US. The drive west of Grand Junction on I-70 is pretty damn remote as well....106 miles between services....that's 106 miles of essentially absolutely NOTHING...I-80 in west UT...40 miles between EXITS...yikes....for sure NOTHING in those 40 miles...
jjozgrunt
12-05-2017, 22:07
Bugger stop posting up more NPs. BBNP now added to our Texas trip. Going to need 3 months just to do that state.
colorado_rob
12-05-2017, 22:58
Bugger stop posting up more NPs. BBNP now added to our Texas trip. Going to need 3 months just to do that state. Well, since it's "on your way" (from Aus to USA), some day if you haven't already, hike up to the top of Mauna Loa on the Big Island of Hawaii. There is a summit cabin up there you can sleeping (bring warm sleeping bag). I cannot remember if it costs anything, you reserve it with Volcano NP because it is in the NP. LONG hike if you start in VNP, but easy-peasy hike from the saddle road, something like 15 miles roundtrip.
As dark of sky as you can get basically, and besides that the air is extremely steady, which is why there are a gazillion huge observatories on top of neighboring Mauna Kea.
On the inside of the entry door of the "summit cabin* ", someone wrote: "My God, it's full of stars !" (Does anyone know where that line was from?)
(* the actual true summit of Mauna Loa is actually a 4 mile or so walk around the summit crater from the summit cabin, if one cares about such things. And the actual high point of HAwaii is neighboring Mauna Kea. Both peaks are well up into the 13K feet in elevation)
TX Aggie
12-05-2017, 23:00
The remotest spot in the US?
Washington, DC. Because everyone there is completely remote from the rest of the US.
The remotest spot in the US?
Washington, DC. Because everyone there is completely remote from the rest of the US.
Perfect! Well done!
Wayne
peakbagger
12-06-2017, 05:51
Well, since it's "on your way" (from Aus to USA), some day if you haven't already, hike up to the top of Mauna Loa on the Big Island of Hawaii. There is a summit cabin up there you can sleeping (bring warm sleeping bag). I cannot remember if it costs anything, you reserve it with Volcano NP because it is in the NP. LONG hike if you start in VNP, but easy-peasy hike from the saddle road, something like 15 miles roundtrip.
As dark of sky as you can get basically, and besides that the air is extremely steady, which is why there are a gazillion huge observatories on top of neighboring Mauna Kea.
On the inside of the entry door of the "summit cabin* ", someone wrote: "My God, it's full of stars !" (Does anyone know where that line was from?)
(* the actual true summit of Mauna Loa is actually a 4 mile or so walk around the summit crater from the summit cabin, if one cares about such things. And the actual high point of HAwaii is neighboring Mauna Kea. Both peaks are well up into the 13K feet in elevation)
2001 A Space Odyssey
rocketsocks
12-06-2017, 08:53
2001 A Space Odysseythats correct Hal.
gpburdelljr
12-06-2017, 12:30
On the inside of the entry door of the "summit cabin* ", someone wrote: "My God, it's full of stars !" (Does anyone know where that line was from
It’s from the book “2001:A Space Odyssey”. The line isn’t in the movie, however.
Bugger stop posting up more NPs. BBNP now added to our Texas trip. Going to need 3 months just to do that state.
Big Bend Ranch State Park
Guadalupe Mountains National Park
There are more.
Wayne
Spirit Walker
12-07-2017, 21:21
The Absaroka-Beartooths is one of the most remote places I've hiked. According to Wikipedia, "The Beartooths have the largest unbroken area of land in excess of 10,000 feet (3,000 m) in altitude in the U.S. outside of Alaska." Yet it was almost as busy as the Winds or one of the National Parks.
TX Aggie
12-08-2017, 03:08
Big Bend Ranch State Park
Guadalupe Mountains National Park
There are more.
Wayne
Big Bend is one of my favorite places. We used to own land just outside the National Park.
Did you see it snowed there this week?
I missed the snow in Big Bend. Again.
I did see the video of snow in San Antonio. Bizarre. Snow in south Texas and none in Northeast Texas. Not fair.
Wayne
gpburdelljr
12-08-2017, 11:31
I missed the snow in Big Bend. Again.
I did see the video of snow in San Antonio. Bizarre. Snow in south Texas and none in Northeast Texas. Not fair.
Wayne
I was in Big Bend 30+ years ago when there was an ice storm. It was really strange to see cacti with a sheath of ice.
I don't know if this figures at all. Probably not. But Dry Tortugas National Monument is pretty remote. There are two ways to get there: ferry and sea plane. They don't have any water on this island. Camping there is very remote because after the ferry leaves, there are something like 7 people who stay there permanently. I've heard the night sky and water are amazing. Would love to camp there, but doesn't seem like the place to camp alone.
colorado_rob
12-08-2017, 13:20
I don't know if this figures at all. Probably not. But Dry Tortugas National Monument is pretty remote. There are two ways to get there: ferry and sea plane. They don't have any water on this island. Camping there is very remote because after the ferry leaves, there are something like 7 people who stay there permanently. I've heard the night sky and water are amazing. Would love to camp there, but doesn't seem like the place to camp alone. good point. we're heading there sometime in 2018 as part of our national park quest ( dry Tortuga is a NP, not NM, by the way ), and will be excited to try to check out the night sky. It is far enough south that some stars not normally visible will be visible.
Slo-go'en
12-08-2017, 14:20
The Absaroka-Beartooths is one of the most remote places I've hiked. According to Wikipedia, "The Beartooths have the largest unbroken area of land in excess of 10,000 feet (3,000 m) in altitude in the U.S. outside of Alaska." Yet it was almost as busy as the Winds or one of the National Parks.
I climbed Mt Lonesome in the Beartooths some time ago with a friend of mine. Yea, it was pretty remote. Took a couple of days to hike in to it. It was early June with a lot of post holeing. Not another soul around for a 100 miles. That is one wild area.
good point. we're heading there sometime in 2018 as part of our national park quest ( dry Tortuga is a NP, not NM, by the way ), and will be excited to try to check out the night sky. It is far enough south that some stars not normally visible will be visible.
Awesome. BTW, I've heard to take a lightweight kayak if you can manage it.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42104894Meh. I've been in some very remote U.S. locations but perhaps the most remote and isolated place was in an unmapped cave in KY when a local guided me more than 4 miles into it. Nothing like that feeling knowing that if something happened to him or our light sources I'd be a goner. Nothing like feeling remote when you overnight in a cave past where any light penetrates.
I'd say the same for underwater cave diving at Itchnetucknee Springs near Gainesville FL.
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