View Full Version : Big 4 weight March on the AT
wordstew
12-11-2017, 21:24
I've been reading a lot about people's big 4 weight. What is considered a respectable big 4 weight to shoot for in order to hike the AT in March and get and not freeze to death. 5,6,7,8 pounds???
2 pound pack, 2 pound tent, 3 pound sleep system.
March has 31 days. When are you planning to start? Lows in the 20s are not uncommon. 0 to 20 degrees can happen occasionally. March weather can spill into April.
You can always swap out the March gear in May or June.
Be warm. Be safe. Have fun!
Wayne
Starchild
12-11-2017, 22:44
2 pound pack, 2 pound tent, 3 pound sleep system.
3.5 lb pack, 1 lb tent, 2.5 lb sleep system. Go for pack comfort first, no need for a overweight tent.
6 pounds.
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wordstew
12-11-2017, 23:27
March has 31 days. When are you planning to start? Lows in the 20s are not uncommon. 0 to 20 degrees can happen occasionally. March weather can spill into April.
You can always swap out the March gear in May or June.
Be warm. Be safe. Have fun!
Wayne
I'm shooting for the first week of March. Right now My big four comes in around 7lbs...
My gears as follows:
Big Agnes Flycreek UL2
UGQ 20 degree top quilt 20oz
Thermarest Proton blanket 18oz
Thermarest large pad 16oz
I suppose I could lose the blanket or go to a lighter tent or pad and get me around 6lbs
What pad are you using? Whats the R-value?
3.5 lb pack, 1 lb tent, 2.5 lb sleep system. Go for pack comfort first, no need for a overweight tent.
Which tent are you finding that weighs 1 pound?
Starchild
12-12-2017, 00:27
Which tent are you finding that weighs 1 pound?
z-pack heximed solo
DownEaster
12-12-2017, 01:30
My "big 4" weight is right around 9 lbs. for a March 1st start, and I think my gear is pretty reasonable. The sleeping system is a hair over 4 lbs. including the Klymit Insulated Static V Lite pad, and I'm definitely keeping the SOL Escape Bivvy (8.4 ounces) at least until I get through the Smokies. Granite Gear Crown 2 pack and Big Agnes Fly Creek HV UL 2 tent are the other big items. I don't try to cheat on the numbers; my weights include water protection for the pack and a kite-grade Tyvek ground mat (because the Fly Creek is low weight due to its fragile construction).
wordstew
12-12-2017, 08:39
What pad are you using? Whats the R-value?
Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XLite: I believe the R-value is 3.2.... may have to add 1/8th to 1/4th inch CCF or relectix to increase R-value
You’ll be fine.
I’d probably lose the blanket, that’s a whole pound.
You can always wear extra layers to bed. And your puffy if it gets real cold.
There may be a few nights you’re chilly, but I dunno if that’s worth a while extra pound plus.
I started March 12th and was hammered with a blizzard on day 3; -10 wind chill....it was bad.
But we made it. I was comfortable after that with my 20 deg quilts (hammocker) all through to Hot Springs, where we got a 30 degree rainy night and I tossed and turned in a shelter because I didn’t want to set my hammock up.
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I even carried extra **** I didn’t need, but my cold weather base weight was around 15 pounds and my pack was probably just under 30 with a few days of food and a liter of water.
Quite a bit lighter after the Greyson Highlands
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hikernutcasey
12-12-2017, 12:33
2 pound pack, 2 pound tent, 3 pound sleep system.I think you will find this advice to be fairly common. My own setup is 2 pound pack, 3 pound tent (Big Agnes Copper Spur 2...I like my space) and 3 pound sleep system.
Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XLite: I believe the R-value is 3.2.... may have to add 1/8th to 1/4th inch CCF or relectix to increase R-value
I would for an early march start. If your neo air goes flat, you will effectively have an R-value of zero.
jjozgrunt
12-12-2017, 18:28
ZPacks Duplex - 1.44
Enlightened Equipment quilts 30 & 50F - 2lb
Exped winterlite R5 - 1.26lb
ZPacks Arc Haul Zip - 1.8lb
Total - 6.5lb
wordstew
12-12-2017, 20:12
Does everyone with zpacks tents count the weight of their hiking poles in their base weight since they need them to put the tent up
soumodeler
12-12-2017, 20:24
Does everyone with zpacks tents count the weight of their hiking poles in their base weight since they need them to put the tent up
No. You carry them in your hands, not your pack, so it does not count towards base weight.
And most of the time, the poles are planted in the ground holding up your arms, so in theory, you can take five pounds more off your base weight, right?
And most of the time, the poles are planted in the ground holding up your arms, so in theory, you can take five pounds more off your base weight, right?
Haha, definitely not
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Wow, have times changed. I thought getting the Big there under 10lbs was awesome. Now, I can see how you could get it down to 6 or 7 lbs. However, being a Hammock Hiker, comfort is my key at my age. My total winter base weight is right around 19 lbs for a Mid March start. Here is the google gear list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12C9-MFqNEd8aHcT3tWQhGj-VWyuXKOH2LaV44ecUFuA
Also posted a Gear List video on You Tube Channel if interested.
fluffkitten
12-13-2017, 05:30
Does everyone with zpacks tents count the weight of their hiking poles in their base weight since they need them to put the tent up
I do, as useful as poles are I loath walking with anything in my hands my poles spend a lot of time on my pack so I count them in base weight.
I just bought the SMD Lunar Solo. SMD offers a carbon pole for users without hiking poles. It costs $30 and weighs less than 2 oz.
https://www.sixmoondesigns.com/collections/shelter-accessories/products/pole-carbon-fiber
I made one myself out of carbon arrow shafts. It weighs 1.1 oz or about 31 grams.
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Does everyone with zpacks tents count the weight of their hiking poles in their base weight since they need them to put the tent up
Must we all buy ZPacks shelters in order for us to use our hiking sticks to support our shelters? Or is any brand of shelter okay?
Wayne
wordstew
12-14-2017, 12:43
Do you guys have any items that you never compromise for weight savings IE: a particular sleep pad or jacket that you would not substitute for anything else or perhaps an item you consider essential to safety.
AllDownhillFromHere
12-14-2017, 13:41
Beyond knife and compass, all my gear is essentially replaceable; I don't because I own it already, and am not going to go out and buy a new tent because there's one an ounce lighter.
Do you guys have any items that you never compromise for weight savings IE: a particular sleep pad or jacket that you would not substitute for anything else or perhaps an item you consider essential to safety.
Within the context of Big 4 & the AT in March, I'm good to a personally proven 15 Degrees F and less than 8 pounds with the following:
WM Alpinlite Long / Xtherm Large / Exped Air Pillow Medium
TarpTent Shelter
Rivendell Mountain Works Jensen Pack (http://www.rivendellmountainworks.com/heritage-backpacks-made-in-usa/#Sizing)
I'm good with all of my other gear. I'm not going chasing Magic Bullets.
Wayne
^^^^^ what he said
once you get to a certain point, you’re comfortable and can stay warm and dry, why spend $600 to save a pound?
$600 will get my gear and I on a really nice section of the CDT or the TCT or a really obscure trail that I will keep to myself.
Wayne
Wow, have times changed. I thought getting the Big there under 10lbs was awesome. Now, I can see how you could get it down to 6 or 7 lbs. However, being a Hammock Hiker, comfort is my key at my age. My total winter base weight is right around 19 lbs for a Mid March start. Here is the google gear list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12C9-MFqNEd8aHcT3tWQhGj-VWyuXKOH2LaV44ecUFuA
Also posted a Gear List video on You Tube Channel if interested.
I’m going to go over this when I get home and get back to you.
I had a similar setup for mid March but had a 15 pound baseweight.
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swisscross
12-15-2017, 11:50
Wow, have times changed. I thought getting the Big there under 10lbs was awesome. Now, I can see how you could get it down to 6 or 7 lbs. However, being a Hammock Hiker, comfort is my key at my age. My total winter base weight is right around 19 lbs for a Mid March start. Here is the google gear list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12C9-MFqNEd8aHcT3tWQhGj-VWyuXKOH2LaV44ecUFuA
Also posted a Gear List video on You Tube Channel if interested.
I counted 5 pieces of headgear alone. See if you can get by with less.
I counted 5 pieces of headgear alone. See if you can get by with less.
So true. Prep hikes in the cold is showing me the value of the key pieces. Beanie, OR Swift Hat and The Buff. I still am a little nervous of insuring I have Dry headwear for sleeping in a Top Quilt/ Hammock. Right now, the Balacava may be staying home. Same holds true for glove liners vs warmer wool mittens. However, the extra items are low weight, 1 oz. each.
So true. Prep hikes in the cold is showing me the value of the key pieces. Beanie, OR Swift Hat and The Buff. I still am a little nervous of insuring I have Dry headwear for sleeping in a Top Quilt/ Hammock. Right now, the Balacava may be staying home. Same holds true for glove liners vs warmer wool mittens. However, the extra items are low weight, 1 oz. each.
"...save the ounces and the pounds will follow..."
So true. Prep hikes in the cold is showing me the value of the key pieces. Beanie, OR Swift Hat and The Buff. I still am a little nervous of insuring I have Dry headwear for sleeping in a Top Quilt/ Hammock. Right now, the Balacava may be staying home. Same holds true for glove liners vs warmer wool mittens. However, the extra items are low weight, 1 oz. each.
Oh boy oh boy
Things to lose
The firesteel bundl - it’s pretty much worthless. Bring a mini bic: bring two actually. There will not be a time where you’ll need an emergency firesteel where one of those much handier lighters will work better (and lighter)
Pack hanger - also useless. You’ll be keeping it under your tarp when it’s raining so why not when it’s not raining? You’ll quickly stop caring about bugs or animals (not that hanging it helps much with that)
Pack towel - eh... I brought one but hardly used it. I’d have to hang it from my pack if I ever used it to clean my pot and after awhile abandoned doing that anyway. It never really served a purpose
Thermometer - helpful I guess? Mostly to know how low you went so you can brag about it with friends. You’re not going to be actually gauging your clothing decisions for the day by what your thermometer says, trust me.
Stuff sack for tree straps - pretty unnecessary. Just roll them up and keep them in the outer mesh of your ohm, they’ll dry faster and you won’t have a nasty wet stuff sack
Am I reading this right? You have your tarp in a skin and then in a sack? Why?
Skin it, fold it, strap it outside your pack so it dries
Why 8 stakes?
You’re not bringing both top quilts I’m assuming, just switching one for the other at some point?
A UQ, a z seat AND a full pad? You’re killing me bud. Mail it to Fontana and carry it through the Smokies. Then mail it home. It’s almost a whole POUND. For what, the one or two times in six months you may have to go to ground?
Cook kit looks good to me but why bandanas? I’d say leave them. Especially if you’re bringing that camp towel. And a buff.
Accept that whatever concept of cleanliness that you hold to now will be completely abandoned. You’re going to turn into a savage by week 3.
You’ve got a lot going on for your water filtering. I never bothered with gravity feeds so I don’t know enough to comment on their handiness. But most people didn’t by the time I was up north either. if you like it rock it. How much water can you actually carry? Might be nice to have more if the water source is far from camp so you don’t have to make the trip a few times (****ing vandaventner shelter)
Your emergency bag seems a bit much. If you carry matches AND lighters....you probably won’t use them and you definitely won’t need the firesteel. I hope the multi tool is a tiny one. Either way if it has a blade on it leave the Gerber at home. Blades are really for opening mail and cutting cheese (that said I had a medium sized fixed blade....I’m a hypocrite)
Zip ties? A SPARE cap? More than 1? Dude, no.
Wet wipes all the way! Don’t forget gold bond, that’ll help quite a bit if your butt or Crotch feels a bit chaffed after a long day.
Ditch the Dr Bronners. I know it seems like a perfect product for a thru but it’s kinda useless. I pictured myself washing my pot, then washing my clothes with it in a sink......nah. The few times I needed to do that I just used a bar of soap already there (think hotels that don’t offer laundry, or the clothes I was wearing while doing my laundry). I squeezed out half the bottle when I hadn’t used it in weeks. Then I stayed at a house and they ran out of detergent so I squirted what was left into the washing machine and never replaced it and never missed it
Hand sanitizer was enough (and also helps a bit starting a fire)
Clothes look ok
Use only the one beanie and only one pair of gloves. I’d keep the warmer ones you made yourself. If it’s cold enough to bother with gloves you’ll want warm ones. Camp gloves seem unnecessary to me; you’ll be holding a warm pot or have your hands in my jacket pockets or you’ll be in your hammock. Or not, but your one set of gloves is enough either way.
Why two dry sacks? You’ve got stuff sacks for days, man
You don’t really need a wallet: the thing that hangs inside your ULA works well enough, but that’s up to you.
You’ll ditch a lot of your clothing along the way due to warmer weather and you laughing at what you thought seemed essential initially.
I’m pretty sure I just cut two pounds of stuff from your pack and made life easier when it comes to packing up. I know you probably won’t listen, because I probably wouldn’t have either. Just don’t quit hiking and you’ll work it all out. I promise ya.
base weight is too high for an ohm, needs to be 10lb or so. either ditch weight or go with a different pack.
Wow, have times changed. I thought getting the Big there under 10lbs was awesome. Now, I can see how you could get it down to 6 or 7 lbs. However, being a Hammock Hiker, comfort is my key at my age. My total winter base weight is right around 19 lbs for a Mid March start. Here is the google gear list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12C9-MFqNEd8aHcT3tWQhGj-VWyuXKOH2LaV44ecUFuA
Also posted a Gear List video on You Tube Channel if interested.
i was talking about this base weight
DownEaster
12-16-2017, 17:31
Thermometer - helpful I guess? Mostly to know how low you went so you can brag about it with friends. You’re not going to be actually gauging your clothing decisions for the day by what your thermometer says, trust me.
It's not clothing decisions for the day that matter, but clothing decisions for the night. You don't want to wake up either shivering or soaked in sweat. How warm/cold you feel at the start of the night is more a function of how much and how recently you ate. The thermometer takes out most of the guesswork.
Wet wipes all the way!
...
Ditch the Dr Bronners.
You've got that exactly backwards. Wet wipes are useless weight. If you're going to wash up with soap (which is what these things are: towels with soap and water), disposable wipes are ridiculous burdens you have to pack out. You can use your bandana for cleaning over and over, as well as holding hot pots, wiping condensation from your tent, being an emergency bandage or sling, ...
It's not clothing decisions for the day that matter, but clothing decisions for the night. You don't want to wake up either shivering or soaked in sweat. How warm/cold you feel at the start of the night is more a function of how much and how recently you ate. The thermometer takes out most of the guesswork.
You've got that exactly backwards. Wet wipes are useless weight. If you're going to wash up with soap (which is what these things are: towels with soap and water), disposable wipes are ridiculous burdens you have to pack out. You can use your bandana for cleaning over and over, as well as holding hot pots, wiping condensation from your tent, being an emergency bandage or sling, ...
I love wet wipes!
I don’t use them to clean anything so much as I use them to wipe my butt and maybe give the ol’ Crotch a quick cleaning.
I don’t care how much tp you use to wipe your butt, if you follow up with a wipe your butt will be cleaner.
Not to suggest you should replace your tp. Every other day or so, or if I powdered up the night before, I’d use a wipe or two after my morning constitutional. It really helped with issues of monkey butt or Crotch rot.
That said I also went long stretches without them.
I advise against Dr Bronners because it’s use, ostensibly to clean things, isn’t really critical.
I never took a woods bath before town like I thought I might, I only once used it for my clothes, never needed it to clean my pot.
Regarding the clothing/thermometer thing; I usually just went to bed in undies and a shirt. If I felt like it was going to be colder I’d put my thermal on first just in case. That was that; a few times I woke up cold and added a layer, that’s pretty much it.
This is all for a thru hike, of course, which is pretty far removed from the recreational camping most of us are used to.
To clarify;
I liked wet wipes because I didn’t want to use my hands or a towel I carried on me for such purposes.... better to toss the wet wipe into my trash ziploc then keep on my pack.
And the thermometer thing:
You just get so used to being out there you get a feel for the weather.
In the beginning I remember wishing I’d had one just to know how the ratings of my gear did against what the temperature actually was.
After awhile I stopped caring. Just just kinda know.
Like when you pick up camp and it’s cold but you KNOW it’s not cold enough for that extra layer because you’ll be sweating in 10 minutes when you start climbing and you whimper to yourself because it’s still chilly....
Ugh
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DownEaster
12-16-2017, 19:00
Butt wiping is the biggest reason many hikers cite to justify packing disposable cleaning cloths with them, but they're simply not necessary. A well-aimed jet or two onto the backside from my water bottle after pooping rinses off most everything that the toilet paper didn't remove. (If you do it right, the squirted water will drop onto the toilet paper in your hole, which dousing speeds along the decomposition process.) Then I wash with soap and water using my bandana, and fill in the cathole with my trowel. (Note: the trowel shouldn't touch anything but plain dirt.) Finally I scrub and rinse the bandana twice (just to be safe), cleaning my hands thoroughly in the process, and I'm good to go. I use the same soap, water, and bandana washup procedure for my cooking/eating gear. I've been practicing this cleaning routine for decades now, since long before hand sanitizer existed, and I can attest that it works well for me; I've never had any intestinal illness while hiking, so certainly none from contamination due to inadequate hygiene.
DownEaster
12-16-2017, 19:20
I think it should go without saying, but I'll add this just in case. You also wash everything your dirty hands may have contaminated, such as the handle of your trowel, the outside of your water bottle, and your ziploc bag of TP. With good technique your hands shouldn't have come in contact with fecal matter, but you wash anyway -- every time.
Oh boy oh boy
I know you probably won’t listen, because I probably wouldn’t have either. Just don’t quit hiking and you’ll work it all out. I promise ya.
I hope I didn’t hijack this Thread, just wanted to throw out a comparison list. However, I appreciate any and all help, especially from those that have successfully completed the trail. Believe me, I will listen! i was trying to avoid any shipments to or from the trail. Yet, mailing to Fontana may not be a bad call. It allows for pre planning of food to get through the Smokies without having to drop into Gatlinburg and Gives me the Pad for the shelter. Actually, I was planning to ship the Pad home after clearing the park, anyway.
The packtowel, I have used for sweat on the trail, and also have used it to dry off after swimming and many times after showering in State Parks. Maybe it is different on the trail.
Pack hanger is more for spare cordage and used as a clothesline. But probably off the list, as is the thermometer and Firesteel. However, old school ways are what push the firesteel and waterproof matches.
Stuff sac for tree tree straps are mesh and allow them to hang outside of Ohm mesh pocket which always seems filled to capacity. Also helps with accountability and a forgetful mind. Never have left the. Hammock but have come close to leaving straps behind. Agree the Tarp in mesh sleeve and then in CF sac may be overkill. With Tarp doors, I use 6 stacks and one for a side pullout. But will discuss that in another thread possibly.
Bandana in the cook set is for use when cooking and then to stop the rattling noise of the canister in the pot on the trail. It also protects the Microrocket Stove.
The Multi tool is tiny and mainly contains scissors. Zip ties down to two (lol) and spare cap gone because I just realized I have one on the Sawyer Squeeze. Filter system is at its heaviest and if I don’t gravity feed in camp, it can be altered while saving weight on the trail.
The Dr Bronners is one I keep going back and forth on. Many swear by it to stop Noro and for showering, washing hair and doing laundry in town. I think I will Down size and then see how I use it on the trail. It is the heaviest item in that sac.
After prep hikes in twenty degree weather, the glove liners are gone and the mittens stay. I only have two major stuff sacs; one for cloths and one for cold weather items and the Down Jacket that doesn’t pack into its own pocket. It doesn’t have a hood or zippers. Many would say just dump it in with the Quilts, but I do like some organization in the pack.
Wallet is is old school as well, it does hold ear buds and spare change. Where do hikers carry spare quarters for the occasional pop machine? My First aid kit rides in the ULA where the wallet items could go. Currently the car keys go there on my current trips.
DownEaster and D2Maine thanks for the additional discussion. Just FYI, I have carried up to 35 pounds in the OHm to see how it rides and carries. I consistently carry 15 to 25 lbs skin out weight without issues. I love this pack.
I know this pruning stage at the end is the toughest, yet ounces still add up to pounds.
I didn’t want to deal with shipping stuff either but found it to be a mostly painless process the few times I dealt with it.
You can also resupply at Fontana: there’s a general store there that has everything (and beer!) that hikers crave, though I recall a bit of a mark up.
Gatlinburg may be worth your time just for the shenanigans. I took a few days there due to an injury and it was a crazy place. That said most of the guys and gals I spoke to afterwards didn’t much care for it. Hillbilly Vegas.
I dig old school ways and like to play with that stuff on overnights and such, but on a thru it’s only cool for a few days or weeks. After awhile you’re just tired and don’t care. I always loved having a fire but could probably count on my hands the times I actually made one myself.
Pretty much any place that offers showers and laundry will have soap and detergent.
I just stuffed my puffy at the bottom of my pack with my quilts - I never pulled it out during the hiking, it woulda been too hot. I put it on after getting to camp and changing.
I never really stuffed it into it’s on pocket. Then it was a stiff lump whereas otherwise it was an easily compressible loose item
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I'm shooting for the first week of March. Right now My big four comes in around 7lbs...
My gears as follows:
Big Agnes Flycreek UL2
UGQ 20 degree top quilt 20oz
Thermarest Proton blanket 18oz
Thermarest large pad 16oz
I suppose I could lose the blanket or go to a lighter tent or pad and get me around 6lbs
Where is your pack and weight?
wordstew
12-19-2017, 16:10
Where is your pack and weight?
gotta Zpacks... I thinks with the Extras it is 25oz