Thanks Tipi

[Crossup]

After reading Tipi's 21 day Citico trip post I have to say thank you for showing that there is more to hiking than carrying the lightest possible pack and ripping off the miles. Despite getting the "you're a complete idiot" look from everyone I talked to about carrying a 40+lb pack for my first real AT outing, I loved it and never really regretted the decision to ignore the weight and just go.

Seeing Tipi, admittedly a tremendously strong,experienced hiker deal with 90lbs just confirms what my own limited experience showed: if you pack is too heavy, don't worry you'll acclimate. I have learned from the weight weenies here that I don't need to carry a 3 man tent, 2lbs of cooking gear and a 4lb mat but I also see there are things that I didnt carry that would be nice to have as well as being able to carry more than a weeks food and clothing for longer outings..

So I'm going to refocus on maximizing my enjoyment rather than minimizing weight...weight is still on my radar, just not to the exclusion of doing what I want my way, instead of the traditional way. As an example: from what I see almost no one carries gear for a shower but I did and it was worth every gram to wash off the sweat and grime.
Let's hear from those not afraid to carry what they want

[Deadeye]

I carry exactly what I want.. it just happens to add up to less than 15 pounds before I toss in the food bag.

[Hosh]

Part of the intrigue of backpacking, is finding ways to enjoy one's self in nature and leave many of the material things at home. Finding innovative solutions to carrying one's kitchen, bedroom and family room on your back. I too bring everything I need at less than 15 pounds.

What I don't do is carry a 4 season tent in the summer, 3 spare sleeping pads, stuff sacks for everything, a repair kit for my pack, my stove, my pads, my boots and 20 days worth of peanut butter.

I also don't go the same place 20 times, take 1000 pictures of my pack and count the number of times I get my feet wet.

I do spend time after a trip figuring out what I really needed and getting rid of the stuff I don't need. You know get less than 14lb's next time

[martinb]

HYOH. Walter enjoys himself and does it his way. I enjoy his TRs and wealth of knowledge about equipment and WNC/TN wilderness. It's all about finding your happy place on the trail.

[Hikingjim]

After reading Tipi's 21 day Citico trip post I have to say thank you for showing that there is more to hiking than carrying the lightest possible pack and ripping off the miles. Despite getting the "you're a complete idiot" look from everyone I talked to about carrying a 40+lb pack for my first real AT outing, I loved it and never really regretted the decision to ignore the weight and just go.
Seeing Tipi, admittedly a tremendously strong,experienced hiker deal with 90lbs just confirms what my own limited experience showed: if you pack is too heavy, don't worry you'll acclimate. I have learned from the weight weenies here that I don't need to carry a 3 man tent, 2lbs of cooking gear and a 4lb mat but I also see there are things that I didnt carry that would be nice to have as well as being able to carry more than a weeks food and clothing for longer outings..
So I'm going to refocus on maximizing my enjoyment rather than minimizing weight...weight is still on my radar, just not to the exclusion of doing what I want my way, instead of the traditional way. As an example: from what I see almost no one carries gear for a shower but I did and it was worth every gram to wash off the sweat and grime.
Let's hear from those not afraid to carry what they want

I would feel like an idiot carrying a 40+ pound pack on a 3 day hike in the summer. I like to move and keep it reasonable and don't need excess junk.
I have had very heavy packs that were necessary for safety and comfort.... and that weight doesn't bother me.
ie: I don't mind carrying stuff that I use and makes sense for a given trip

[TX Aggie]

After reading Tipi's 21 day Citico trip post I have to say thank you for showing that there is more to hiking than carrying the lightest possible pack and ripping off the miles. Despite getting the "you're a complete idiot" look from everyone I talked to about carrying a 40+lb pack for my first real AT outing, I loved it and never really regretted the decision to ignore the weight and just go.

Seeing Tipi, admittedly a tremendously strong,experienced hiker deal with 90lbs just confirms what my own limited experience showed: if you pack is too heavy, don't worry you'll acclimate. I have learned from the weight weenies here that I don't need to carry a 3 man tent, 2lbs of cooking gear and a 4lb mat but I also see there are things that I didnt carry that would be nice to have as well as being able to carry more than a weeks food and clothing for longer outings..

So I'm going to refocus on maximizing my enjoyment rather than minimizing weight...weight is still on my radar, just not to the exclusion of doing what I want my way, instead of the traditional way. As an example: from what I see almost no one carries gear for a shower but I did and it was worth every gram to wash off the sweat and grime.
Let's hear from those not afraid to carry what they want

Great job! I remember my first couple of posts to this board and getting slammed for not being UL.

HYOH

Take what’s comfortable for you and that allows you the hike you want. I’m still in the category that considers 30lbs light. Last year, that mark was 40. I don’t need to spend hundred$ to get down to the absolute minimal. I’ll put that extra effort into getting in shape, that has benefits on and off the Trail.

Good luck in your pursuit to have your own great hiking experiences.


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[Berserker]

I go heavy if I'm gonna set up a base camp somewhere and do day hikes, or if I'm just planning to hike low mileage and put comfort ahead of all else. Normally though, I'm trying to balance doing some mileage whilst still being comfortable. For me that's morphed into trying to carry less weight because I just don't like being weighed down all day, and am not in the right physical condition to carry a lot of weight and make miles.

[Crossup]

My 40 pounds was for 7 days and 6-7lbs was due to just going with gear I had. To me that was a far more telling experience than hiking with 15lbs in beautiful constant 70deg temps on perfect trails. 5 days it topped 90degs, I got a good dose of PA rocks, for one 11 mile day I carried 50lbs. The only thing I did not have to deal with was rain and I think I had that covered a month earlier when I did a 10 mile day hike in the rain which coincidentally covered the same ground my last day of the week long hike with the same shoes and clothing.
My goal was to find out if I was actually an LD hiker or a wannabe. Once I actually did it, I knew I was not fooling myself with romantic nonsense, I actually enjoyed the whole experience and was thinking about the next one before I had even finished. So now I have a new tent, pad, bag and 1.5lbs lighter cooking gear. I also now know my 7 days of food was actually closer to 9 days and that I want a double ration of MH raspberries/cookie crumbles everyday :D

[chknfngrs]

Here here! Mucho love to Tipi

[Deadeye]

And to be clear - I do my thing, Tipi does his, and we're both happy and right.

[The Solemates]

I climbed in the wind rivers in August. 60 lb was what that required. I was fairly miserable with this weight, and it’s less than 24% of my body weight. I can’t imagine 90 lb, which is likely more than half of tipis body weight. There’s a reason he only does a few miles. Much like him I usually am on the camping spectrum rather than the hiking one these days with kids who go along.

[cneill13]

Agreed. Tipis trip reports are my favorite. He inspired me to take a late-December winter hike. I am heading out in 12 days to the Foothills Trail. Can't wait.

[scrabbler]

After reading Tipi's 21 day Citico trip post I have to say thank you for showing that there is more to hiking than carrying the lightest possible pack and ripping off the miles. Despite getting the "you're a complete idiot" look from everyone I talked to about carrying a 40+lb pack for my first real AT outing, I loved it and never really regretted the decision to ignore the weight and just go.
How FAR did you go?

[clusterone]

Agreed. Tipis trip reports are my favorite. He inspired me to take a late-December winter hike. I am heading out in 12 days to the Foothills Trail. Can't wait.

Agreed! Love to Tipi! Why so much hate for his heavy pack! Please don't answer that.. I was lucky enough to meet Tipi on trail and he could not be a nicer guy. Anyway, not sure why you guys go UL...but I buy UL gear so I can carry more steak, beer and brauts! Nothing better after a full day of hiking than real food and a cold drink. Save the bag meals for lunch.

[Crossup]

I didn't try to get an accurate measure of it, but only 60 odd miles, 7 days includes 2 half days- arrival and departure days. Last day was maybe 2 miles to the rendevous, from the James Fry shelter. Part of the reason for no mileage total was I took lots of side trails for sightseeing as I only went shelter to shelter 5 days, so I had lots of time to put on extra miles.I also managed to find a white blazed trail which was the wrong trail and had to double back a couple miles to get back on the AT, I suspect it was a reroute that threw me off as it still went the right way, just on the wrong side of the mountain.
I was happy that I was able to do 25% of my body weight without any strain or day after soreness. No injuries or even tweaks, and my body adapted to the weight gratifyingly quick, to the point where I was comfortable jogging with the 35lb I carried out of the woods.
This spring I'm looking to hopefully do 2 weeks without resupply, nobo from central VA. And follow that up with what I really want to do most- mountain bike backpacking for a week around Harrisonburg VA before it gets too warm.

[scrabbler]

Thats a big trip with that weight, congrats you're in great shape!

[evyck da fleet]

Don’t worry about what others are carrying. You’ll figure out which ULers know what they’re doing and which ones are skimping on clothes, food, maps etc and ducking into town every third day.

[Time Zone]

So I'm going to refocus on maximizing my enjoyment rather than minimizing weight...weight is still on my radar, just not to the exclusion of doing what I want my way, instead of the traditional way.

This^^^^^^^^
x 1000

Now in defense of UL, or light, I suspect many would say that going light increases their enjoyment (until it doesn't of course ... such as when you get cold from going too light with insulation, or when you are really yogi-ing off other hikers, such as with FAK, etc). It is also generally held that getting in many miles (say 20+) day after day does require going light. But yeah, I don't understand going UL for UL's sake, save for those who like to boast about their base weights.

A few months back I was hiking with a group, and at the trailhead, the hike leader offered the chance for everyone to weigh their packs. I was the only one to decline. One fellow, fairly new to hiking, appeared to have come out of the experience feeling he was "doing it wrong", as he confided sheepishly to me his pack weight. Now, this guy wasn't struggling with his pack weight, that I could tell, but on a subsequent hike, I believe he told me he had replaced many of his otherwise perfectly-good items and had a new lower pack weight. Well, I hope it made him happy to carry less, but it seemed to me that buying (more) new gear was a solution looking for a problem.

At some point, aging will require me to go lighter or go home. For now, it's just a more rigorous workout, and I don't crush the miles or get out so much that UL is a necessity for me. That said, I'm cognizant of what things in my pack weigh, and their volume. When I consider upgrades to my gear, I'm weighing those factors, as well as cost, durability, function/utility, and will it add to my enjoyment. Durable was important to me early on, for peace of mind (which adds to enjoyment), but UL stuff - from the more popular vendors - is probably tougher than I suspect, and would probably serve me fine given my use case. But I still have to consider if it's worth the $ and would it really add to my enjoyment. As far as base weight goes, it is pretty startling how much is accounted for by the big four. The only things on my list that weigh more than 8 oz, save for the big four, are things like jackets (insulated, rain), bear spray (when applicable), or saw (when desired). Granted, there are many potential items of 0.1-3.0 oz, but shaving weight there is tough since it's not far from zero. You either leave much of it at home (risk going stupid light) or you focus on dialing in your big 4.

[The Cleaner]

Tipi could haul a gram weeenie and their pack if needed. I started backpacking the AT in 1979 when hikers bragged about their pack weight. What is disgusting is all the trash some ULers leave behind.

[Hosh]

I thought Rednecks left all the trash.??

[The Cleaner]

I thought Rednecks left all the trash.?? Here on this section of trail, Rednecks hang in town and do meth.

[Dogwood]

After reading Tipi's 21 day Citico trip post I have to say thank you for showing that there is more to hiking than carrying the lightest possible pack and ripping off the miles. Despite getting the "you're a complete idiot" look from everyone I talked to about carrying a 40+lb pack for my first real AT outing, I loved it and never really regretted the decision to ignore the weight and just go.

Seeing Tipi, admittedly a tremendously strong,experienced hiker deal with 90lbs just confirms what my own limited experience showed: if you pack is too heavy, don't worry you'll acclimate. I have learned from the weight weenies here that I don't need to carry a 3 man tent, 2lbs of cooking gear and a 4lb mat but I also see there are things that I didnt carry that would be nice to have as well as being able to carry more than a weeks food and clothing for longer outings..

So I'm going to refocus on maximizing my enjoyment rather than minimizing weight...weight is still on my radar, just not to the exclusion of doing what I want my way, instead of the traditional way. As an example: from what I see almost no one carries gear for a shower but I did and it was worth every gram to wash off the sweat and grime.
Let's hear from those not afraid to carry what they want"...if you're pack is too heavy you'll acclimate."

Dead wrong! Not everyone does acclimate. Some are taken off their anticipated hikes because they become injured, overly fatigued, or become disillusioned, some permanently, about backpacking because of excess kit wt and monitoring excess stuff.

To some savvy experienced backpackers there is a distinct noticeable well balanced correlation between physical, emotional, and mental comfort and kit wt, complexity, and volume.

There are different ways of defining an experienced backpacker. Too often we mis label what is an experienced backpacker. These mislabelings apply IMO to those who actually have a very narrow highly specialized range of skills and rather undiversified experiences.

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[Traffic Jam]

"...if you're pack is too heavy you'll acclimate."

Dead wrong! Not everyone does acclimate. Some are taken off their anticipated hikes because they become injured, overly fatigued, or become disillusioned, some permanently, about backpacking because of excess kit wt and monitoring excess stuff.

To some savvy experienced backpackers there is a distinct noticeable well balanced correlation between physical, emotional, and mental comfort and kit wt, complexity, and volume.

There are different ways of defining an experienced backpacker. Too often we mis label what is an experienced backpacker. These mislabelings apply IMO to those who actually have a very narrow highly specialized range of skills and rather undiversified experiences.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

We agree on something. I don't enjoy hiking when my pack is too heavy and full of useless crap.

[Crossup]

Thanks for the advice, I guess I dodged a lot of bullets, probably only ounces away from never hiking again, especially the monitoring excess stuff...sounds serious.

I will search for an equation to define that well balanced correlation, do you think I will need to chuck all my gear and start over?

According to other experts in this thread I think you forgot to mention as criteria for not being experienced, posting too many photos and counting creek crossings.


"...if you're pack is too heavy you'll acclimate."

Dead wrong! Not everyone does acclimate. Some are taken off their anticipated hikes because they become injured, overly fatigued, or become disillusioned, some permanently, about backpacking because of excess kit wt and monitoring excess stuff.

To some savvy experienced backpackers there is a distinct noticeable well balanced correlation between physical, emotional, and mental comfort and kit wt, complexity, and volume.

There are different ways of defining an experienced backpacker. Too often we mis label what is an experienced backpacker. These mislabelings apply IMO to those who actually have a very narrow highly specialized range of skills and rather undiversified experiences.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Traffic Jam]

Thanks for the advice, I guess I dodged a lot of bullets, probably only ounces away from never hiking again, especially the monitoring excess stuff...sounds serious.

I will search for an equation to define that well balanced correlation, do you think I will need to chuck all my gear and start over?

According to other experts in this thread I think you forgot to mention as criteria for not being experienced, posting too many photos and counting creek crossings.

if you're happy with your gear and you enjoy hiking, I think you've found the balance.

I admire Tipi and have always wanted to run across him, as we hike in the same areas. Forgive me for not remembering his exact words, but he described the steep climb up Big Frog Mt from Double Spring Gap as hellacious. I thought it was enjoyable. Pack weight matters for many people.

If I were physically capable of carrying more, I probably would. It would be nice to have a real skillet and stuff for bread baking. And better coffee-making supplies...a real grinder. Don't get me started.

I apologize for the "useless crap" comment. That's how I refer to my excess gear and baggage. It wasn't a judgment on other people's stuff.

:)

[Crossup]

I think you "get" it. Some will only be happy hiking light, lean and making big mile. Others will be happy going the opposite way, sometimes to extremes like Tipi.

Some will ignore weight(like me), go with what they have and fail to enjoy hiking. Others will adapt, get stronger and enjoy.

I was very happy with my hike but immediately started to replace my big 4 to cut weight because while I knew I had every thing I absolutely needed I did want a few more things and wanted to be able to extend my season via carrying more clothing and my range with more food. In my case I did not see a need for drastic measures, I just needed to have gear better matched to my situation...no need for a 3 man tent, a long/wide car camping sleep pad, and my desire for a wood burning backup stove did not require a 16oz SS unit nor heavy preheat winter style gas stove and instead of 2 summer bags of questionable warmth I picked up a decent 30deg Nemo bag. I'll be adding a modest tarp to use as a vestible rain shield as the BA FC entry strikes me as questionable and it can serve several other functions. I'm also considering a power bank, camp shoes and a few small items . So odds are I'll still be closer to 40lbs than 30 but that will work for me.

There are a lot ways I could save weight according to the UL guys but I've found doing without them isn't for me:
I carry a filter and Steripen...I dont want to be drinking chemically treated water nor chlorinated either
I carry a 6 liter Dromedary(empty except at camp) and shower hose, showers were SO worth the weight and the Drom gives me a one stop camp water supply. Also have a bladder in the Osprey for water if I feel the need for more than a liter and I carry a 20oz bottle of Gatorade made from powder for electrolytes. The Gatorade also keeps up my energy via the sugar.

I carry a D-power gas canister stove and wood stove(2.5oz)- the wood stove is my wind screen and a way to carry less gas- important for showers which I found are much nicer with water of a reasonable temperature(it only takes two trail days for me to not be able to handle my smell- as a bonus I rode home with my wife not complaining about my hygiene)

I carry two Ti pots so I can cook a meal and hot beverage or desert(MH raspberry/cookie crumble) without doing the "dishes" first and heat shower water with the large pot

I carry an MP3 player, cell phone, Garmin GPS and activity watch(with GPS). The watch is not needed but I own one so it comes along since its not pack weight. The GPS is only used for bushwacking to save the phone batteries(made it 7 days on one charge and had spared batteries IF needed), I have a great sense of direction but I'm not risking finding out its perhaps not perfect. Also a AAA camplight for the tent.

I carry a pretty serious first aid kit, I've found from years of mountain biking you only need it when you dont have it.

I carry extra cordage, micro Leatherman, small handsaw and pocket knife...I used all of them on my trip

Well, you see why I dont have a light pack, the point is I use all of it and being who I am, am happier for having what many would consider excessive gear and/or poor choices. Similar to the old saw about one mans junk being anothers treasures. I do know if I carry something and dont use it, its not coming with me again because I do believe sometimes less is more.

I posted here to get input from those who don't obsess over weight, but for the most part I think most rational people realize there are limits and those are personal.



if you're happy with your gear and you enjoy hiking, I think you've found the balance.

I admire Tipi and have always wanted to run across him, as we hike in the same areas. Forgive me for not remembering his exact words, but he described the steep climb up Big Frog Mt from Double Spring Gap as hellacious. I thought it was enjoyable. Pack weight matters for many people.

If I were physically capable of carrying more, I probably would. It would be nice to have a real skillet and stuff for bread baking. And better coffee-making supplies...a real grinder. Don't get me started.

I apologize for the "useless crap" comment. That's how I refer to my excess gear and baggage. It wasn't a judgment on other people's stuff.

:)