View Full Version : Just how difficult is Pennsylvania?
skinnbones
12-15-2017, 15:52
Planning to hike from Harpers Ferry to Delaware water gap and looking at my guide book I don't see much elevation gains for most of the PA section. Compared to what I went through in Georgia and the early part of North Carolina is PA easier? Also, has anyone hiked from Carlisle, PA to Duncannon, PA in one day?
lonehiker
12-15-2017, 16:13
Planning to hike from Harpers Ferry to Delaware water gap and looking at my guide book I don't see much elevation gains for most of the PA section. Compared to what I went through in Georgia and the early part of North Carolina is PA easier? Also, has anyone hiked from Carlisle, PA to Duncannon, PA in one day?
If my memory serves me I hiked from Boiling Springs to Duncannon in a day. Don't remember it being all that difficult of a day but I was in great shape at this point of the trail. As far as your other questions goes, PA was pretty easy. Southern PA is very nice but then you get into very rocky trails. You can still make good time but you will have these little ankle twisters.
Yes I hiked on my last thru hike from Boiling Springs to Duncanon in one day. It was late May. I took off at first light and was at the Doyle before supper time. The first half of the day it's flat as a pancake. I thought I was doing good till I got to Cove Mt about the last 5 or 6 miles. That's when you hit the rocks. I was hating life there. On a thru-hike you get spoiled by a easy trail South of "the Rocks" and all of a sudden you are in it and you know it. There are a few days where you are in it for most of the day. That section North of Eckville shelter up past Bake Oven is the worst of it. Overall though when I look back at the entire Appalachian Trail the famous rocks of PA won't make top 10 worst places list. It's just not that bad. Drinking water shortage can be a worse problem than rocks in this area.
Gambit McCrae
12-15-2017, 16:21
I have done BS to Duncannon, in a day. It is an easy walk but still 26 miles or so. PA is pleasant IMO but I still have 110 mile left for this july 4th
Christoph
12-15-2017, 17:15
It wasn't too difficult at first (Southern end)... Nice, flat, pine needle trail and fields. The rocks up north are bad, but I didn't find them as bad as I thought after reading so much about Rocksylvania and how people sometimes skip that part. Take your time and watch your step is all. Difficultly level - I didn't think it was that hard but it did slow me down a bit for fear of messing up my feet or twisting an ankle.
Slo-go'en
12-15-2017, 17:40
There are different levels of difficulty. I wouldn't say it's particularly difficult. Just tiring. On a scale of 1-10, with Maine being a 10, I'd give PA a 3.
"Flat" is relative. When there is a climb, it tends to be short but steep. Once you start descending into Duncannon you have to begin paying attention to where you put your feet for the rest of the state. You spend most of the next 100 miles hopping from rock to rock. Drunks walk in a straighter line.
Time of year and weather makes a big difference. Cool and wet is nice, but slows you down due to slippery rocks. From June on you have to deal with the beastly heat, humidity and increasingly scarce water sources. And keep an eye out for rattle snakes. Having done both, I highly recommend the cool and wet over hot and humid.
Berserker
12-15-2017, 17:48
I can only comment on the 140 miles from the MD border to the Gamelands parking past the 501 shelter. My recollection of that piece is that it's fairly easy for the most part compared to GA and NC. There's not a lot of ups and downs, and where there are ups and downs they are easier. I've been told I haven't hit the infamous rocks yet though, so can't comment on that.
As mentioned above, it can get ridiculously humid in PA. Not quite Houston humid, but still quite bad. I'd recommend planning around July/August. October is nice.
Don't worry about the rocks. They'll slow you down a bit and you might encounter a blister in a spot that you've never seen before. The biggest problem is that good camping spots (for tents) are few and far between.
skinnbones
12-15-2017, 21:39
I refuse to use shelters (it's a rodent thing) and prefer to tent anyway, so to hear good tent spots are scarce is disappointing news.
Spirit Walker
12-15-2017, 22:14
Tenting isn't that difficult. Usually either near the shelters or just past the shelters there will be a good flat spot. You will probably have to carry water though if you aren't near a shelter.
In PA you often have a 1-3 mile climb up to a ridge, then 15 miles flattish along the ridge, weaving through rock fields, then a 1-3 mile steepish descent to a valley, followed soon after by another steep climb to the next ridge, long flat ridge walk, and steep descent. The Cumberland valley is a longer flat section through corn fields which is nice in winter but can be quite hot in summer. The farther north you go, the worse the rocks. Or more accurately, the longer the rocky stretches. In the south you'll have 100' of rocks followed by half a mile of easy trail. Then it becomes 100 yards followed by a quarter mile of easy. There are always breaks in the rocky sections, but the farther north you go, the shorter the breaks.
I refuse to use shelters (it's a rodent thing) and prefer to tent anyway, so to hear good tent spots are scarce is disappointing news.
I feel the same way about shelters. Personally never had trouble finding a spot. It might take some extra walking if you're picky, but it's not that bad.
Christoph
12-15-2017, 22:56
I tented near the shelters and had some wildlife pass in the night almost every night. I SHOULD have had my tent fly off those nights (they were actually pretty nice weather wise) but I didn't. That was one of those states that had the most wildlife in the area for me. Other than my bear episode in NY (but that's another story). Pa on up through Ct, I saw the most wildlife. Also, the Ga wolves which were really nice too see.
Emerson Bigills
12-15-2017, 23:11
I hiked PA northbound in early May. The first half is pretty easy, with a couple sections that have some rocks, but offset by some stretches of nice trail and tread. Once you hit the rocks they suck, really suck. They get even worse when wet. Numerous times you will be on a terribly rocky trail that slows you down, then it will start to smooth out. Then you come to a fork and the AT always takes the rockiest fork. Honestly, PA was the only state I couldn't wait to get out of. Sorry. Except for the Cumberland Valley it seems every day you climb 1000 ft up a ridge where you hike on the rocky crest all day, then come down at the end of the day. Rinse and repeat each day. Views from these ridges are all the same, farmland.
The Cumby Valley is walking through flat fields. Was my highest mileage day, 27 miles, but options to camp and shelter are very limited in that section. Rock and Sole hostel is a good spot for a shower and meal. Climb out of Duncannon is tougher than you would expect. Don't underestimate it. Also, watch out for rattlers, there are some big 'uns in PA. Enjoy
evyck da fleet
12-15-2017, 23:50
PA is fairly easy; 25 to 30+ daily miles for a thru hiker is not uncommon. The biggest challenge for me was timing the 16 mile section after BS and the 9 miles after Palmerston in the AM. The heat, humidity and lack of tree cover combined with a lack of water could make those sections difficult on a summer afternoon. The water sources in second section have an tendency to run dry and the first section has warnings regarding farm run off.
peakbagger
12-16-2017, 07:48
Water up on the ridgelines can be an issue. There are several stretches where the shelters and water sources are located in minor gaps in the ridge. The water source is what ever drains off he ridge. One shelter had Spring #1, Spring #2 and Spring #3 which basically was a path that followed a stream bed down off the ridge. The theory was if you went down low enough eventually there was flow in the stream bed.
The rocks are nasty and when they become more prevalent up north, it can get real tedious. Unlike in the whites which has many stretches of continuous rock, when you step on a rock in NH its highly unlikely it will not go anywhere, in PA its the exact opposite, expect the rock is going roll unexpectedly. There is also a lot of use of some of the AT shelters and sites by locals, lots of trash and vandalism in these areas.
B carefully of your hiking poles if you use them . The tips can get stuck between rocks and bend or worse.
thom
peakbagger
12-16-2017, 11:53
I would much rather catch a tip on occasion than do that stretch without poles!
Slo-go'en
12-16-2017, 12:09
I would much rather catch a tip on occasion than do that stretch without poles!
That's for sure.
PA is ground zero for Deer ticks, due to the large deer population. Therefore, you want to stay out of the brush and grass. If your going to tent, do it in a well trampled area at the shelter site and not off into the woods.
I'm old and slow, and I section-hiked the PA rocks some years ago. It wasn't all that difficult, but it was extremely tedious.
Cookerhiker
12-16-2017, 20:40
If the toughest part of hiking for you is the uphills, then you'll find PA noticeably easier. The only truly taxing ascent going NOBO is a 1,000' climb out of Lehigh Gap.
As mentioned by many others the rocks, especially east of the Susquehanna River, slow you down. It can be frustrating because the rocks are small, some moving, some fixed, most pointed, not large enough to truly rock hop like parts of New England. As long as you're patient, you'll be fine. It's just that the flat-looking elevation profile looks easier on paper than it is in reality because of the rocks.
skinnbones
12-17-2017, 12:40
Thanks everybody. Great info.
shinnbones. Me and a friend of mine will be section hiking that portion of the trail on last week of march 2108. We will start at Harpers Ferry the last week of march. This thread is very helpful. This section will be our first and we are looking forward to 2 to 4 weeks each year on the trail. We will section it until we are both retired and then be able to finish it. Thanks for every ones information. We elected to forego the Georgia section due to the hordes of people that time of year. Sectioning central/northern parts and puts ahead of the horde. We will go south (were from Maryland) in the September time frame, a few less people. Pleasant weather.
Slo-go'en
12-18-2017, 00:00
shinnbones. Me and a friend of mine will be section hiking that portion of the trail on last week of march 2108. We will start at Harpers Ferry the last week of march. This thread is very helpful. This section will be our first and we are looking forward to 2 to 4 weeks each year on the trail. We will section it until we are both retired and then be able to finish it. Thanks for every ones information. We elected to forego the Georgia section due to the hordes of people that time of year. Sectioning central/northern parts and puts ahead of the horde. We will go south (were from Maryland) in the September time frame, a few less people. Pleasant weather.
2108? That's a long wait :) I'd reconsider starting the last week of March, especially if this is your first long hike. Triply so if it's your first hike. Good chance it will still be winter. Don't start until April 15 at the earliest. Starting with the flip flop group about that time in April is a good plan.
ldsailor
12-18-2017, 14:04
I hiked from Harper's Ferry to Wind Gap just a couple of months ago. The southern part wasn't too bad, but some of the boulder scrambles were a little daunting. The Knifes Edge and the boulders at Lehigh Gap outside of Palmerton were really tough going. I have a blog if you want to check out what I had to say. The address is in my signature lines. I started in mid-September. I'm 68 so a young fellow like you shouldn't have a problem :).
Gambit McCrae
12-18-2017, 15:12
Is port clinton hotel actually a hotel or just a bar and grill??
Slo-go'en
12-18-2017, 15:23
Is port clinton hotel actually a hotel or just a bar and grill??
It's an actual hotel, but only has a few rooms. 4 or 6 maybe, all with just one twin bed. I split a room with another guy. I lost the coin toss and ended up sleeping on the floor. But it was like 90 out and the room had A/C so it was worth it.
Is port clinton hotel actually a hotel or just a bar and grill??
It is a hotel. I stayed there two nights. Just be aware the restaurant and bar are closed in Sundays. I was the only one in the building when I zeroed there on a Sunday.
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BobTheBuilder
12-18-2017, 15:26
Port Clinton Hotel is both, but both are closed on Monday (I believe), so plan accordingly. It is one of the old time hotels with individual rooms upstairs and a common bathroom. I was there this fall and the bed was ridiculously soft, but survivable. I think there were actually two bathrooms, and probably 8-10 rooms. I was the only one there that night. Really enjoyed a couple of beers and dinner at the bar after a day of hiking.
Gambit McCrae
12-18-2017, 15:26
Cost of room guys? Thanks for the info I will be there in July
Yeah, the baths are community style. You have to walk out of your room and down the hall to get to the bath.
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BobTheBuilder
12-18-2017, 15:29
Also, about the rocks - I think the main issue is that they slow you down. I think if you tried to keep up your normal pace through them you would be very likely to get hurt, so that is the frustrating part to me. I average 2 mph through most of the trail, but about 1.2 - 1.5 through the rocks. They're mostly on the ridgelines, and there are a lot of ridgelines in the northern half of the state.
ldsailor
12-18-2017, 15:55
B carefully of your hiking poles if you use them . The tips can get stuck between rocks and bend or worse.
I had carbon fiber poles. The tips of both poles broke off in the PA rocks.
The Cumberland Valley has more tree cover than it used to even 10 years ago, many of the little trees that sprouted by the trail after the off-road relocation 20+ years ago have closed canopy and are now big enough to blaze.
Also, many of the views feature monster warehouses now, not just farmland.
Many of the trails further north and west in PA offer better scenery, slightly higher elevation/cooler - and even more rocks. ;)
One could follow the "other trail" network from, say, SNP to Harriman for a different view of the mid-Atlantic without getting too far into days-long roadwalks or choose-your-own-adventure, has anyone ever done this on a repeat thru-hike?
BlackCloud
12-19-2017, 10:58
The southern half of PA is great; north of Duncannon is all rock. It's not the footing I didn't like; it was the fact that the sides of my feet hurt. If you wear something less than a full grain leather boot, the rocks seem to pierce through the sidewalls of the boots and the sides of my feet were very sore as a consequence. Maybe it's just me.
Also, there are many stretches around Port Clinton that are BORING as all get out, as there are miles and miles between overlooks....
Northern PA is a bit of a suck.
It’s not really difficult per se, but the rocks are occasionally infuriating. It’s a combination of that and the fact that if you’re a nobo that’s also when you’re hitting some of the worst heat, humidity, and bugs.
Southern Pa, and New Jersey, are both pretty great, however
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hikernutcasey
12-19-2017, 13:03
Northern PA is a bit of a suck.
It’s not really difficult per se, but the rocks are occasionally infuriating. It’s a combination of that and the fact that if you’re a nobo that’s also when you’re hitting some of the worst heat, humidity, and bugs.
Southern Pa, and New Jersey, are both pretty great, however
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThis is my experience as well. Southern PA is some of the easiest walking on the entire trail. New Jersey is still a little rocky but surprisingly pretty.
I am a section hiker and I didn't think they rocks were too terrible. Just a nuisance more than anything. My theory is thru hikers hate them so much because when they get to them it is hot and humid and they have heard so many horror stories about the rocks that their attitude toward them already sucks. So of course they are going to complain about them, I would too. But as a section hiker I'm only out there for a week or so and I'm just happy to be on the trail and not stuck in my office! Mindset makes a big difference.
The southern half of PA is great; north of Duncannon is all rock. It's not the footing I didn't like; it was the fact that the sides of my feet hurt. If you wear something less than a full grain leather boot, the rocks seem to pierce through the sidewalls of the boots and the sides of my feet were very sore as a consequence. Maybe it's just me.
Also, there are many stretches around Port Clinton that are BORING as all get out, as there are miles and miles between overlooks....
It's just you. You probably have weak ankles. =)
I hike those stretches in-and-around Port Clinton on a regular basis. There are some good vistas (the Pinnacle, Pulpit Rock, Dan's Pulpit, etc) sprinkled about and the rocks are relatively tame compared to other spots.
Cookerhiker
12-19-2017, 16:59
... My theory is thru hikers hate them so much because when they get to them it is hot and humid and they have heard so many horror stories about the rocks that their attitude toward them already sucks. So of course they are going to complain about them, I would too....Mindset makes a big difference.
This. Plus, they look at the easy elevation profile and figure they can stride along at 5 mph but the rocks slow them down.
This. Plus, they look at the easy elevation profile and figure they can stride along at 5 mph but the rocks slow them down.
This is a big factor, also.
Mostly though is a confluence of everything.
There are huge stretches in New Hampshire and Maine that are way worse than any terrain in PA; like daily misery and toil, but I still recall northern Pa with a certain level of frustration.
A lot of it was heat and bugs, I think.
NH is brutal but you’re also in the Whites
Cookerhiker
12-19-2017, 17:21
This is a big factor, also.
Mostly though is a confluence of everything.
There are huge stretches in New Hampshire and Maine that are way worse than any terrain in PA; like daily misery and toil, but I still recall northern Pa with a certain level of frustration.
A lot of it was heat and bugs, I think.
NH is brutal but you’re also in the Whites
Yes.
I've always said that the major, granted not the only, difference between PA and NH is that NH's rocks are on steep, 2-3,000' ups and downs where the hiker's focus is more on gravity than treadway.
And epic views instead of aggressive bugs
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Francis Sawyer
12-22-2017, 12:14
Since it's referred to as " the place where boots go to die" I'd say that it would be a wee bit challenging. Also it's often said the PA has the most and meanest snakes.
Since it's referred to as " the place where boots go to die" I'd say that it would be a wee bit challenging. Also it's often said the PA has the most and meanest snakes.
I hadn’t heard either of those, but I like them.
My trail runners were already on their way out before northern Pa but man, those last two days chewed them right up.
That said, not as badly as New Hampshire did
BlackCloud
12-23-2017, 13:03
Since it's referred to as " the place where boots go to die" I'd say that it would be a wee bit challenging. Also it's often said the PA has the most and meanest snakes.
Never heard that either but true. I junked my Merrills after hitting DE Water Gap. Saw some snakes too...
We have rattlesnakes and copperheads, but they tend to be fairly lethargic.
bamboo bob
12-23-2017, 19:10
PA is rocky but not that big a deal. Mainly it's flat easy going.
I repeat what others have said...
I was really paranoid about PA... and then, when I started NB from Penn Mar, thought everyone was wrong... it was a "cake walk" for the A.T. ... a lot of flat areas, cow pastures, etc. - For the FIRST 90 MILES!
Palmerton North - OMG... it got tougher, especially that first 20 miles through the "super site" or whatever they call that mountain that is an environmental devastation.... After that, - ROCKS - that are sharpened to points to hurt your feet!!!!! This is the one major spot on the trail where you want to have SuperFeet inserts!!!!
If you like or are great at rock-hopping, PA will be better but with that said, these are not flat rock, although I have never seen them I heard that there are trail maintainers who go out at night with big rock files and sharpen all rocks.
I live in PA and have no plans of ever hiking North of Boiling Springs.
illabelle
12-24-2017, 14:11
I repeat what others have said...
I was really paranoid about PA... and then, when I started NB from Penn Mar, thought everyone was wrong... it was a "cake walk" for the A.T. ... a lot of flat areas, cow pastures, etc. - For the FIRST 90 MILES!
Palmerton North - OMG... it got tougher, especially that first 20 miles through the "super site" or whatever they call that mountain that is an environmental devastation.... After that, - ROCKS - that are sharpened to points to hurt your feet!!!!! This is the one major spot on the trail where you want to have SuperFeet inserts!!!!
We've done two-thirds of Pennsylvania, from Penn-Mar to Port Clinton, and we've already hiked New Jersey. This coming spring we'll go up and fill in the gap from Port Clinton to DWG. I can hardly wait....NOT!
jj dont play
12-24-2017, 14:18
It isn't
The rocks are tough on the feet but the terrain allows for big miles.
Also PA is home to easily one of the best Hostels on the AT, Rock N Sole
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my take on PA:
just nothing to be interested in
not difficult, but not the easy miles of VA
not the easy resupply of NY / NJ
little of interest to see
I regard it as paying the dues to get between north and south
We have rattlesnakes and copperheads, but they tend to be fairly lethargic.
I agree, I saw and heard both. The rattle snake was just letting me know where it was so I would not mess with it.
Highland Goat
12-26-2017, 10:22
When I hiked Southbound in 2012 I did not notice the supposed rocky terrain. Of course, I was fleeing from Hurricane Sandy at the time. We called Sandy the Frankenstorm on the AT. I put in some ludicrous mileage and probably did not notice a lot of things.
The night before the Frankenstorm hit I walked for eighteen hours to get to Boiling Springs. Those last ten miles were easy enough to keep going while very very tired.
jj dont play
12-26-2017, 18:41
When I hiked Southbound in 2012 I did not notice the supposed rocky terrain. Of course, I was fleeing from Hurricane Sandy at the time. We called Sandy the Frankenstorm on the AT. I put in some ludicrous mileage and probably did not notice a lot of things.
The night before the Frankenstorm hit I walked for eighteen hours to get to Boiling Springs. Those last ten miles were easy enough to keep going while very very tired.
The rocks are way worse in areas like the Whites so for a Southbounder PA rocks should not be an issue at all.
I remember thinking in the Whites "no one should ever complain about PA ever again once they've made it this far, waaaaay worse"
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Toolshed
12-28-2017, 14:58
I live not far from the trail and have done PA and sections of it quite a few times. from PenMar to Duncannon - It is pretty scenic and straight forward easy hiking. From Duncannon to Fort Indiantown Gap, it is a nice ridge walk (several ridges and a few smaller valleys) from FI Gap it becomes simply a series of long straggling toe-jamming, ankle-twistable ridge walks. the ups and downs aren't really bad - infrequent, but jammed with boulder jumbles in spots. I agree with others. Water is a bitch to find in hi-summer. I think what makes some think PA is hard is because the previous 700-750 miles where on fairly smooth trails and here you have to slow down now and pick your footfalls.
I remember thinking in the Whites "no one should ever complain about PA ever again once they've made it this far, waaaaay worse"
That's what my wife said about Katahdin. :D
For PA, though the A.T. has the name recognition, there are a number of more scenic backpacking trails, including but not necessarily limited to:
Standing Stone
Black Forest
West Rim
Mid State
Tiadaghton
Old Loggers Path
Loyalsock
Tuscarora
Quehanna
Cookerhiker
12-28-2017, 16:33
For PA, though the A.T. has the name recognition, there are a number of more scenic backpacking trails, including but not necessarily limited to:
Standing Stone
Black Forest
West Rim
Mid State
Tiadaghton
Old Loggers Path
Loyalsock
Tuscarora
QuehannaAdd to this list the Susquehannock.
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Cookerhiker
12-28-2017, 16:34
Add to this list the Susquehannock.
Sent from my XT1635-01 using TapatalkAnd the Laurel Highlands.
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dudeijuststarted
12-28-2017, 18:18
PA is a great state. The northern 20 or so miles into DWG aren't my favorite, and the multiple service road crossings near the northern end can feel like the twilight zone, but I'd say everything up to Port Clinton is a real pleasure. I'd recommend hiking BS to Duncannon at night if you have good moonlight and weather. Its really cool to ramble through farmfields and neighborhoods at night, and you may even stumble upon a creepy old graveyard ;-)
Highland Goat
12-29-2017, 07:46
And the Laurel Highlands.
Second for the Laurel Highlands.
Toolshed
12-31-2017, 10:18
Hey Ki0eh. Hope you are well... I agree completely. Please add the STS & NCT to your list. I've done all multiple times except the Standing Stone and the Quehanna. I've planned for the Quehanna 2x but never got there.
For PA, though the A.T. has the name recognition, there are a number of more scenic backpacking trails, including but not necessarily limited to:
Standing Stone
Black Forest
West Rim
Mid State
Tiadaghton
Old Loggers Path
Loyalsock
Tuscarora
Quehanna