Feedback: Early Start Section: Campo to 342 Cajon Pass

[Woodpecker]

Greetings!

We are two East Coast Scout Leaders w/ AT and other trail experience and are planning to Section the PCT over 6 summers and need your feedback.

The first summer we would like to accomplish Campo to Cajon Pass, 342 miles.

We will have 21 days available on trail each summer. We are building our legs back up incrementally adding mileage and weight, to be ready to knock average 20 mile days. We maintain 3 to 3.5mph, so at that pace we should have about 4 zero or buffer days.

Understanding that we are in a heavy precipitation cycle, but in general we are trying to gauge the range of probabilities for the following-

Questions for you SOCALS / experienced PCT'ers:

1. We would like to start VERY early to beat the desert heat, but the question is HOW early? How early can we start in March to not have problems with snow at elevation near San Jacinto?

2. What snow gear for that time frame should we carry? Mini-Spikes, Full Crampons, Ice Axe, TSL Snowshoes?

3. Is Cajon Pass / 342 miles too ambitious? Should we hop off at say Big Bear Lake MM266?

4. As section hikers, we will be doing our first agency permit at San Jacinto wilderness, correct?

Thanks for any other wisdom / advice / cautions / warnings: greatly appreciated!

We're super excited and can't wait to get going!

[gwschenk]

Hi, Woodpecker.

1. It's hard to tell in advance, as you know, but any March start will result in snow around San Jacinto. And quite possibly in the Laguna Mountains.

2. Me, I'm an old dinosaur. I'd carry an ice axe, maybe mail it to Warner Springs or Paradise Valley Cafe. I like some good boots for snow, something you can use to kick steps crossing snow slopes. Boots also keep your feet clean in the drier sections down south resulting in fewer blisters. Others like trail runners with microspikes. Maybe I use them wrong but I find they roll off my foot. YMMV

3. That depends on you. From reading journals I think a lot of people drop out early from injury from trying to push it too far. Stay flexible. if you stop at Big Bear it's easy to get to LA. http://www.bigbearhostel.com/public-transport--marta-bus-to-big-bear-lake--hostel.html

4. Looks like you need a permit for dispersed camping on the Cleveland National Forest: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cleveland/home/?cid=FSEPRD488307

Good luck. You'll like section A, it's way different from the AT. It's pleasant hiking with good views. For planning purposes I recommend the Wilderness Press guidebooks. You're going to have a great time.

[Woodpecker]

Hi, Woodpecker.

1. It's hard to tell in advance, as you know, but any March start will result in snow around San Jacinto. And quite possibly in the Laguna Mountains.

2. Me, I'm an old dinosaur. I'd carry an ice axe, maybe mail it to Warner Springs or Paradise Valley Cafe. I like some good boots for snow, something you can use to kick steps crossing snow slopes. Boots also keep your feet clean in the drier sections down south resulting in fewer blisters. Others like trail runners with microspikes. Maybe I use them wrong but I find they roll off my foot. YMMV

3. That depends on you. From reading journals I think a lot of people drop out early from injury from trying to push it too far. Stay flexible. if you stop at Big Bear it's easy to get to LA. http://www.bigbearhostel.com/public-transport--marta-bus-to-big-bear-lake--hostel.html

4. Looks like you need a permit for dispersed camping on the Cleveland National Forest: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cleveland/home/?cid=FSEPRD488307

Good luck. You'll like section A, it's way different from the AT. It's pleasant hiking with good views. For planning purposes I recommend the Wilderness Press guidebooks. You're going to have a great time.

Great info, validated what we have been thinking. Lots to consider. Thanks!


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[handlebar]

FWIW, I did the section from Mex border to Cajon Pass in 20 days from April 27 to May 16, 2008. I had already hiked 314 miles sobo from Walker Pass to Cajon Pass (long story with 2 flights back East for family weddings), so I had hiking legs by then. Only had snow on Fuller Ridge and took a zero at Big Bear. Starting in March, you will probably encounter a lot more snow, and that will likely slow you down. Is there any chance you can wait until early April for this section?

[Woodpecker]

Thanks! We are trying to find that sweet spot of when to start depending on the snowfall. Appreciate the info!


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[Coffee]

I think that Campo to Cajon Pass is definitely possible in the timeframe you have based on the miles you are planning. There were only patches of snow in the San Jacinto area when I went through in late April 2015 but that was a low snow year and I'd certainly expect there to be snow in any March... And Fuller ridge would definitely require traction devices IMO.

No no matter when you start from mid March to mid May, you'll have a lot of company. The pct in southern ca exceeded all of my expectations.

[Woodpecker]

I think that Campo to Cajon Pass is definitely possible in the timeframe you have based on the miles you are planning. There were only patches of snow in the San Jacinto area when I went through in late April 2015 but that was a low snow year and I'd certainly expect there to be snow in any March... And Fuller ridge would definitely require traction devices IMO.

No no matter when you start from mid March to mid May, you'll have a lot of company. The pct in southern ca exceeded all of my expectations.

Thanks Coffee!


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[AllDownhillFromHere]

If you can, try and make it 27 more miles to Wrightwood. Cajon Pass is an off-ramp on the highway, it's a dump with a cheap motel and a McDonalds. Wrightwood is nicer, higher up (cooler), and has much better people, food, etc. You can easily get from there to Victorville or Rancho, and civilization.

[Coffee]

If you can, try and make it 27 more miles to Wrightwood. Cajon Pass is an off-ramp on the highway, it's a dump with a cheap motel and a McDonalds. Wrightwood is nicer, higher up (cooler), and has much better people, food, etc. You can easily get from there to Victorville or Rancho, and civilization.

Just be ready for the big climb!

[AllDownhillFromHere]

Yeah, it's a slog out of the pass, but totally worth it to get back up into the trees and out of that blasted wasteland of trains and pavement. Sit under the bridge until mid-afternoon then hike until dark, you'll be way up on the ridge and out of the mess.

[Woodpecker]

If you can, try and make it 27 more miles to Wrightwood. Cajon Pass is an off-ramp on the highway, it's a dump with a cheap motel and a McDonalds. Wrightwood is nicer, higher up (cooler), and has much better people, food, etc. You can easily get from there to Victorville or Rancho, and civilization.

Thanks for that, we'll have to see how tight we are on getting back to Ontario airport to fly home to get back to work *ugh*- Of course, we were assuming that Cajon would be a convenient place to meet for arranged transportation.

Any experience with transport from Cajon back to the airport? We just haven't drilled that far down in planning yet. Thanks again!


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[Coffee]

I don't think many hikers start or end at Cajon Pass but it's an interstate and I'm sure you can get transportation. I've never liked hitching near interstates so you'd probably want to prearrange something. I'm not aware of public transit at the pass. There is a McDonald's and a motel with hiker rates that I stayed at. But nothing else.

[Woodpecker]

I don't think many hikers start or end at Cajon Pass but it's an interstate and I'm sure you can get transportation. I've never liked hitching near interstates so you'd probably want to prearrange something. I'm not aware of public transit at the pass. There is a McDonald's and a motel with hiker rates that I stayed at. But nothing else.

Great insight, thank you! I'll start exploring arranged transportation. We may be cutting our schedule too tight to try and make Wrightwood.


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[Dogwood]

I've never had to do it myself but I know those who have left the PCT at Cajon Pass. Walk up about a 1/2 mile to the Best Western Motel. Call Uber from there to get to El Cajon Transit Center. Buses and trolleys from EC TC to Int AP's. PCT Trail Angels might assist getting from Cajon Pass to public transportation too. If in the bubble even if out front Trail Angles and others supporting PCT hikers could help. Some hold up a night or two in the motel or hang at the Mickey Dees gorging. I don't know but perhaps the Ghound stops at the pass? They tend to stop at Mickey Dees.


East coasters and first time PCTers often don't understand the dynamics of the PCT through the Mojave Desert. 1) It's not flat or all low Death Valley NP elev terrain. This has profound effects on weather like snowpack, where it snows, how much it snows, how fast snowpack is melting...Look at Halfmile's PCT elev profiles. 2) Deserts are not always hot! Deserts are areas of low rainfall below 10"/yr. That can occur in cold deserts like the Gobi. That's not to say higher elevations can't experience significant snow. 3) Deserts can have a huge temp swing between night and day making the days very hot and the nights frigid(well below freezing). Earlier you go the colder the nights will be as well. It's common for late Mar/very early April NOBOers to experience several nights of below freezing weather.



Out of favor with most PCTers - those with the mindset of fast and light, what apps do you recommend?, "get er dun", and if anything is worth doing its worth doing fast crowd, but I second the WP books for the planning stages. Some great PCT info in those books for pre hike prep.

[Dogwood]

1. We would like to start VERY early to beat the desert heat, but the question is HOW early? How early can we start in March to not have problems with snow at elevation near San Jacinto?

2. What snow gear for that time frame should we carry? Mini-Spikes, Full Crampons, Ice Axe, TSL Snowshoes?

3. Is Cajon Pass / 342 miles too ambitious? Should we hop off at say Big Bear Lake MM266?


These questions have to be answered in context of what your party anticipates for MPD avg, how comfortable you are with possibly some snow/ice travel, that seasons snowpack, recent weather trends affecting how fast it's melting, blah blah, blah. So, there are no absolute crystal ball answers.



Though, earlier you go the more these things can be affected.

[gwschenk]

I've never had to do it myself but I know those who have left the PCT at Cajon Pass. Walk up about a 1/2 mile to the Best Western Motel. Call Uber from there to get to El Cajon Transit Center. Buses and trolleys from EC TC to Int AP's.

El Cajon Transit Center is in San Diego. Better to take Uber to Rancho Cucamonga Metrolink station, then take Metrolink to LA Union Station. You can get a Flyaway bus from there to LAX, or take Amtrak back to San Diego.


Out of favor with most PCTers - those with the mindset of fast and light, what apps do you recommend?, "get er dun", and if anything is worth doing its worth doing fast crowd, but I second the WP books for the planning stages. Some great PCT info in those books for pre hike prep.

Great advice.

[Dogwood]

El Cajon Transit Center is in San Diego. Better to take Uber to Rancho Cucamonga Metrolink station, then take Metrolink to LA Union Station. You can get a Flyaway bus from there to LAX, or take Amtrak back to San Diego...


Great optional advice.:)

[Coffee]

2) Deserts are not always hot! Deserts are areas of low rainfall below 10"/yr. That can occur in cold deserts like the Gobi. That's not to say higher elevations can't experience significant snow. 3) Deserts can have a huge temp swing between night and day making the days very hot and the nights frigid(well below freezing). Earlier you go the colder the nights will be as well. It's common for late Mar/very early April NOBOers to experience several nights of below freezing weather.
+1000 on this ... coming down from the hills into the start of the Mojave, a cold rain turned to sleet and it was in the 30s! Freezing my ass off I stumbled into Hikertown grateful to be out of the weather in the "hot" desert. It was early May! One of the many things I love about long hikes is that the unpredictable happens more often than not ...

[Woodpecker]

Thanks everyone! Great info, all taken together it's painting a picture that I think we're moving away from early March to later, and have our mountaineering gear waiting at Paradise Valley Cafe. On exit from Cajon to Ontario airport we'll arrange reserved transportation. Like everyone is saying there are a lot of variables that we need to prep for. I've been pulling historical temp data for those high elevations so we know to be prepared for down to zero temps. Thanks everyone! The more direct experience info from you guys the better!


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[gwschenk]

I first ran into "The Herd" in 1989, all three of them, at Cajon Pass. They had snow shoes, ice axe and crampons. They needed all that stuff, too, it was early March and the San Gabriels were blanketed with snow.

Times sure have changed.

[Woodpecker]

I first ran into "The Herd" in 1989, all three of them, at Cajon Pass. They had snow shoes, ice axe and crampons. They needed all that stuff, too, it was early March and the San Gabriels were blanketed with snow.

Times sure have changed.

Very cool! I think I'd rather carry the snow gear and not need it than take a unscheduled ride down the mountain. We're both big guys somewhere between gram counters and pack mules so we shouldn't mind too much.


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