Alcohol Stove Discussion (technical info heavy post)

[hipbone]

I have been using alcohol stoves for 17 years and I have always found them light and efficient in practically any condition. There has been a lot of info scattered about in different threads and I thought I would start a thread instead of hijacking multiple ones.

My alcohol stove set up:

stove (jetted stove made of small sized soda cans) - 8 grams
pot stand (chicken wire pot stand with every extra gram trimmed off) - 7 grams
windscreen (beer can screens that look damn cool) - 8 grams
heat shield (small piece of folded aluminum foil to protect the ground and reflect back heat) .5 grams
23.5 grams total

my alcohol stove efficiency:

boil time for 2 cups of water - 6 minutes
volume of alcohol needed for 2 cups of water - .6 oz
flame out for .6 oz of alcohol - 9 minutes
weight of 1 oz of alcohol - .78 oz

Weight calculations for X number of days: (number of days * times cooked a day * alcohol needed to boil 2 cups of water * .78 oz) + stove weight + fuel bottle weight

I only cook 1 time per day so the following calculations reflect that. Also, anything less than a 5 day trip I could use a smaller vessel and cut weight, but I will ignore that weight savings for ease of calculations

2 dinner trip (weekend trip):

amount of alcohol needed - 1.2 oz
fuel weight - .936 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight - 1.936 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight+stove kit - 2.936 oz


5 dinner trip (about 75 miles on the AT):

amount of alcohol needed - 3 oz
fuel weight - 2.34 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight - 3.34 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight+stove kit - 4.34 oz (about the weight of an empty canister stove canister)


10 dinner trip (Probably the longest carry you'll ever have to do on the CDT; about 200 miles):

amount of alcohol needed - 6 oz
fuel weight - 4.68 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight - 5.68 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight+stove kit - 6.68 oz


13 dinner trip (the most days I can go without getting a bigger fuel bottle):

amount of alcohol needed - 8 oz
fuel weight - 10.3 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight - 11.3 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight+stove kit - 12.3 oz (about the weight of a full 8 oz MSR fuel canister)


Of course always take a little more alcohol than you'll use in a day (I boil with .5 oz so I calculated with .6 oz). Also keep in mind that every day you cook you will lose a pretty significant amount of fuel weight. The last day of your trip you'll basically be carrying only the weight of the fuel vessel. Also, if your main goal is time savings while cooking, a canister stove will take 1/2 as long to boil water as an alcohol stove (saving you about 3 minutes a day).

I am really serious about cutting grams out of my pack. I find that a light pack helps me prolong my hiking career by saving my knees and my joints (I am at the age where I will start having problems with my body if I do not take care of it). We are relatively small people so what a normal weight person carries is multiplied greatly when we have to carry it. Also, my hiking partner has had 2 reconstructive knee surgeries and osteoarthritis so cutting weight is CRITICAL to us. We are long distance hikers....

If you can save us weight by suggesting a lighter cooking set up please share. If you can show me the point at which I will save weight by taking a canister stove I will certainly take advice. I am not dedicated to any cook set up, I only need the lightest. I have considered going stoveless also, but meal preparation before the hike is a real enjoyment to us. MtnGoat is a really good cook and we dehydrate all of our meals before we go out...not having a hot home cooked meal every day would take a lot out of our hike. I have also looked into wood stoves but I don't think I would enjoy collecting tinder and sooting up my pot.

thanks in advance for your suggestions!

[Time Zone]

As a nerd, I certainly appreciate the details here. My experience with alcohol stoves is such that what stood out to me most was that you could get 9 minutes burn out of 0.6g alcohol. That's pretty darn good IMO.

I'm curious about your beer can windscreen. I use some flashing leftover from a roof job on my house, trimmed to size and with the edges smoothed over with steel wool (as best I can - dullness is limited by thickness - though I'd think getting a beer can screen dull would be harder unless you relied upon folding over the edge). Do you have pix of your windscreen? Just curious what you did for ventilation. For mine, I have some tiny binder clips to raise it up ... and to keep it enclosed, though perhaps a small gap on the side with the pot handle wouldn't compromise efficiency too much ... IDK.

Kudos to you for wanting to save your knees; that's a concern of mine too. I'm starting to appreciate, however, that the low-hanging fruit (for me) is all in the Big 3. Sure, I could shave off grams from the many small things I bring too, but in nearly all those cases, it would involve trading grams for functionality. That is, there'd be some penalty or inconvenience for doing so. Right now I want to focus on the things that are almost (save for $ spent), a win-win. Lower weight, lower bulk, NO loss in utility or comfort.

Can't think of anything to shave grams from your stove, but you didn't mention what kind of pot you use, unless I missed it.

[Kaptainkriz]

Keep your pot support and windscreen and replace the Alc stove with a BGET (1 gram) and use the 4g esbit tabs. That's the lightest setup I know of. Carry exactly the fuel you need.

If you can save us weight by suggesting a lighter cooking set up please share.

[hipbone]

As a nerd, I certainly appreciate the details here. My experience with alcohol stoves is such that what stood out to me most was that you could get 9 minutes burn out of 0.6g alcohol. That's pretty darn good IMO.

I'm curious about your beer can windscreen. I use some flashing leftover from a roof job on my house, trimmed to size and with the edges smoothed over with steel wool (as best I can - dullness is limited by thickness - though I'd think getting a beer can screen dull would be harder unless you relied upon folding over the edge). Do you have pix of your windscreen? Just curious what you did for ventilation. For mine, I have some tiny binder clips to raise it up ... and to keep it enclosed, though perhaps a small gap on the side with the pot handle wouldn't compromise efficiency too much ... IDK.

Kudos to you for wanting to save your knees; that's a concern of mine too. I'm starting to appreciate, however, that the low-hanging fruit (for me) is all in the Big 3. Sure, I could shave off grams from the many small things I bring too, but in nearly all those cases, it would involve trading grams for functionality. That is, there'd be some penalty or inconvenience for doing so. Right now I want to focus on the things that are almost (save for $ spent), a win-win. Lower weight, lower bulk, NO loss in utility or comfort.

Can't think of anything to shave grams from your stove, but you didn't mention what kind of pot you use, unless I missed it.


My windscreen is made out of 2 beer cans (usually NC brewed). I join them with an origami fold (ie no jb weld or glue) to hold them together. Then I fold over each edge of the screen to keep it from having sharp edges. I do a soft roll instead of a hard crease to give it a good smooth edge. I round all of the exposed edges to get rid of sharp edges. I put a hole punch about 1/4 of an inch from the bottom every inch. I do not clip my wind screen together, I actually leave it open a little to increase air flow (I put the open edges opposite the breeze if I can). The windscreen is modest size, but used correctly it's about all you need. Picture is attached

My pot is the Toaks Light Titanium 550 ml pot with no handles (https://www.toaksoutdoor.com/collections/ultra-light-pot/products/pot-550-nh) (1.5 oz, 2.2 oz with the lid). Both MtnGoat and I carry one each. We put 1 oz of alcohol in the stove, light it, boil my meal, then i remove it and put her meal on immediately after mine boils. We can get both of our meals to boil with about an ounce of alcohol, the rest of the cooking is done in a pot cozy. The Toaks 550 is a really good size for a mug also...when we have extra fuel left over we have hot teas.

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[Rex Clifton]

Didn't talk about the pot, big omission. I use a caldera cone sidewinder paired with an evernew 900 and a zelph staylyte stove. I can get away with rationing .6 oz of fuel for two cups of water because the cone is so wind resistant and because of the wide base on the pot. I'm not sure any other wind screen/pot combination would do the trick, at least not any that I have tried.

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[hipbone]

Keep your pot support and windscreen and replace the Alc stove with a BGET (1 gram) and use the 4g esbit tabs. That's the lightest setup I know of. Carry exactly the fuel you need.

excellent suggestion and I am considering it. Do you have fuel specifics as far as grams per 2 cup boil and boil times? Since we both have to boil our dinners time would be a limiting factor with esbit. If I can boil 2 meals in under 10 minutes then esbit is definitely an option.

[hipbone]

Didn't talk about the pot, big omission. I use a caldera cone sidewinder paired with an evernew 900 and a zelph staylyte stove. I can get away with rationing .6 oz of fuel for two cups of water because the cone is so wind resistant and because of the wide base on the pot. I'm not sure any other wind screen/pot combination would do the trick, at least not any that I have tried.

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Sorry the pot is a toaks 550, but I have used 1.5 liter, 1.2 liter, and a 900 ml pot before the toaks 550 and they all boiled about the same, the water would still boil but boil times were slightly different from what I remember. I'd consider doing a few boil tests in different pots to see if I could increase efficiency, but I do enjoy having 2 small pots so that we can do hot drinks. We made a few hot teas on our Long Trail thru hike this year and it was really satisfying :)

I can probably get a more efficient wind screen but my wind screen only weighs 8 grams...and uh...they're made with local NC beer cans so...you know... :)

Zelph's stuff is super nice, I just enjoy tinkering and making stoves so I make my own. I probably have 50 stoves and 15 complete stove sets in my garage right now.

[Rex Clifton]

Keep your pot support and windscreen and replace the Alc stove with a BGET (1 gram) and use the 4g esbit tabs. That's the lightest setup I know of. Carry exactly the fuel you need.I like where you're go'in! My caldera cone came with their gram cracker stove that I used a few times and really like. The problem I always had with esbit was that, in a more open environment, it's a wimpy fuel. In the cone, however, it burns like a house on fire. I'm planning to use solid fuel a lot more this season. The only downside is it leaves a sticky residue all over everything.

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[Rallywagon]

Try a fuel mixture of 1/3 isopropanol (90% from a pharmacy) with 2/3 methanol (Heet yellow). It burns slower with more heat value but does not soot the pot....at least in my Fancee Feast type stove.

[Rex Clifton]

Sorry the pot is a toaks 550, but I have used 1.5 liter, 1.2 liter, and a 900 ml pot before the toaks 550 and they all boiled about the same, the water would still boil but boil times were slightly different from what I remember. I'd consider doing a few boil tests in different pots to see if I could increase efficiency, but I do enjoy having 2 small pots so that we can do hot drinks. We made a few hot teas on our Long Trail thru hike this year and it was really satisfying :)

I can probably get a more efficient wind screen but my wind screen only weighs 8 grams...and uh...they're made with local NC beer cans so...you know... :)

Zelph's stuff is super nice, I just enjoy tinkering and making stoves so I make my own. I probably have 50 stoves and 15 complete stove sets in my garage right now.Thanks for the info. The toaks 550 looks like a sweet little pot. Any magic about NC beer cans? I live in Wisconsin and we drink a lot of beer up here, have alot of cans. On the hoop stove, did you make? I tried making and after a few times gave up and bought a toaks titanium siphon stove. On my capillary stove builds, they would never come up to pressure.

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[hipbone]

Try a fuel mixture of 1/3 isopropanol (90% from a pharmacy) with 2/3 methanol (Heet yellow). It burns slower with more heat value but does not soot the pot....at least in my Fancee Feast type stove.

nice...it's on the list of things to try...

[Slo-go'en]

I bought a caldera cone and matching optimized alky stove and never looked back. Between the stability of the stand and the efficiency of the stove/cone, it can't be beat.

[hipbone]

I bought a caldera cone and matching optimized alky stove and never looked back. Between the stability of the stand and the efficiency of the stove/cone, it can't be beat.

do you have a weight on the caldera cone? What pot do you use with it? Do you have the weight of your pot? I wonder if a caldera with a toaks 550 works...I've looked into caldera cones but I haven't worked out the geometry to make my own. I also like making my stuff from recycled cans so I'd have to drink a few tall boys :)

thanks for the info

[hipbone]

Thanks for the info. The toaks 550 looks like a sweet little pot. Any magic about NC beer cans? I live in Wisconsin and we drink a lot of beer up here, have alot of cans. On the hoop stove, did you make? I tried making and after a few times gave up and bought a toaks titanium siphon stove. On my capillary stove builds, they would never come up to pressure.

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Have you ever seen a Lone Rider Sweet Josie can? Nice art. Also, Oskar Blues Dales Pale Ale cans have the phrase "infinitely recyclable" on each can...when I make my wind screens I make sure that phrase shows...that's a little magic right? :)

[Kaptainkriz]

I use the Zelph modified Toaks 550 with a cone. For fun I just made a big cup o tea with 3 tabs (~12g) outside on the deck - it's 19F outside and I started with water from the fridge (38F). Full rolling boil in 10:52. :)


excellent suggestion and I am considering it. Do you have fuel specifics as far as grams per 2 cup boil and boil times? Since we both have to boil our dinners time would be a limiting factor with esbit. If I can boil 2 meals in under 10 minutes then esbit is definitely an option.

[hipbone]

I use the Zelph modified Toaks 550 with a cone. For fun I just made a big cup o tea with 3 tabs (~12g) outside on the deck - it's 19F outside and I started with water from the fridge (38F). Full rolling boil in 10:52. :)

NICE. I'll look into esbit. I always avoided them because I heard they gum up your pot. Most of my boil times are at 40 degrees or warmer so not a lot of colder weather experience. I'm a 3 season hiker so haven't done lots of cold weather boils with my stoves.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

I bought an esbit and hated it - gummed up the pot, smelled of chemicals.

[Kaptainkriz]

For some reason, the 4g tabs don't seem gum up the pot much...at least far less than the cubes. Not sure if it is the shorter height (bigger pot distance) or formulation. My 550 cone weighs 18g in the Tyvec sleeve.

NICE. I'll look into esbit. I always avoided them because I heard they gum up your pot. Most of my boil times are at 40 degrees or warmer so not a lot of colder weather experience. I'm a 3 season hiker so haven't done lots of cold weather boils with my stoves.

[hipbone]

For some reason, the 4g tabs don't seem gum up the pot much...at least far less than the cubes. Not sure if it is the shorter height (bigger pot distance) or formulation. My 550 cone weighs 18g in the Tyvec sleeve.

Where did you get your cone? Did you have your pot rolled also? Any way to use the caldera cone without a roll in the pot?

[hipbone]

For some reason, the 4g tabs don't seem gum up the pot much...at least far less than the cubes. Not sure if it is the shorter height (bigger pot distance) or formulation. My 550 cone weighs 18g in the Tyvec sleeve.

also, can you fit your caldera cone inside of your toaks 550? I specifically make my wind screens short enough to fit inside my pot...no big deal if it doesn't fit in the pot, just wondering..

[Kaptainkriz]

Zelph rolled the pot and supplied the cone (from trail designs) with it. I'm sure TD has the size (or Zelph may answer on that). It might work with a silicone bracelet vs the roll... What's nice about this one is it is a sidewinder and fits in the 550. I have one cone and two pots - one with handles and one without. http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/toaks-550-without-handles.php


Where did you get your cone? Did you have your pot rolled also? Any way to use the caldera cone without a roll in the pot?

[Kaptainkriz]

TD used a bracelet on theirs: https://www.traildesigns.com/products/evernew-400ml-cup-sidewinder-ti-tri-bundle

Zelph rolled the pot and supplied the cone (from trail designs) with it. I'm sure TD has the size (or Zelph may answer on that). It might work with a silicone bracelet vs the roll... What's nice about this one is it is a sidewinder and fits in the 550. I have one cone and two pots - one with handles and one without. http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/toaks-550-without-handles.php

[zelph]

Hipbone, I agree with Captainkriz,

Keep your pot support and windscreen and replace the Alc stove with a BGET (1 gram) and use the 4g esbit tabs. That's the lightest setup I know of. Carry exactly the fuel you need.

Make your pot support so it keeps the bottom of your pot 1-3/4" from top of the Ezbits to get a nice clean burn. Be sure to use your windscreen so you keep the flame as calm as you can to keep it burning clean. The 4 gram Esbits have very little odor. I disliked esbit before I tried the 4 gram.

Make a Brian Green Esbit Tray with bread pan corners for the most efficient burn. Or purchase one online from an authorized manufacture/dealer (me) ;-)

A lot of trial and error went into the use of esbit over at Backpacklight.com in a thread devoted to esbit.

You can get esbit to burn clean but it still has an odor when burning that I don't prefer :eek:

In the spring I'll be making more kits using Toaks Light pots and Titanium windscreens. The pots will have ridges for the maximum side to side stability and added strength to the pot..

[Deadeye]

my 2 cents to add: once you arrive at your lightest setup, experiment with the distance from stove to pot. I found a significant difference in speed to boil by raising or lowering my pot stand, and arrived at an ideal height. I didn't keep all the test times and distances, but there was as much as 2 minutes difference in boil time from 1/2" to 2". Too close and the burn was not very efficient (lost of yellow flame), too far away and too much heat was lost and the effect of wind was increased, but there was a juuuust right Goldilocks distance.

[hipbone]

my 2 cents to add: once you arrive at your lightest setup, experiment with the distance from stove to pot. I found a significant difference in speed to boil by raising or lowering my pot stand, and arrived at an ideal height. I didn't keep all the test times and distances, but there was as much as 2 minutes difference in boil time from 1/2" to 2". Too close and the burn was not very efficient (lost of yellow flame), too far away and too much heat was lost and the effect of wind was increased, but there was a juuuust right Goldilocks distance.

thanks man! I'll take that 2 cents of advice. I have been working with my current set up as far as distance from the pot. I significantly reduced the height of my current alcohol stove and I found that my old pot stand was too tall to be effective. I had to also reduce the height of my pot stand to make it efficient again (added bonus is that my pot stand got lighter). I also took extra bits off of my current pot stand set up to lighten it a bit. Below is a video of my flame pattern. You can see that it laps up the side of the pot a little bit (not sure if that's the best situation, maybe the flames should all go directly to the bottom of the pot). It has a pretty nice blue flame and it jets pretty intensely when it gets going.

FLAME PATTERN LINK (https://photos.app.goo.gl/bty7U6LVGVpPCl1X2)


Mind if i ask how far from your stove you set your pot? My stove jets are about 3/4 inch away from the pot bottom...it seems closer than other stove models that are purchased but I find that height to be really effective at putting flame to the pot while also resisting the effects of the wind. I included a picture of my set up below




41449

[Deadeye]

Mind if i ask how far from your stove you set your pot? My stove jets are about 3/4 inch away from the pot bottom...it seems closer than other stove models that are purchased but I find that height to be really effective at putting flame to the pot while also resisting the effects of the wind. I included a picture of my set up below




41449

I use 1/2" hardware cloth for a pot stand, just like yours, and tested in 1/2" increments from 1/2" to 2" above the stove, using 2 cups of water. I settled on 1.5 inches, which gave me good boil time, clean flame, and still fit inside my pot for packing. I don't recall if 2" gave a faster boil time, but it wouldn't fit in my pot anyhow. Lower distances definitely reduced flame quality and lengthened boil time. At 1/2", I barely got to a boil with an ounce of fuel. For windscreen, I wrap foil around the "cage" and leave the top and bottom rows of mesh open. My 1.5: pot stand is 6 courses of wire mesh cloth. I'm sure different stoves will produce different results, but it was sure worth testing for me.

[hipbone]

I use 1/2" hardware cloth for a pot stand, just like yours, and tested in 1/2" increments from 1/2" to 2" above the stove, using 2 cups of water. I settled on 1.5 inches, which gave me good boil time, clean flame, and still fit inside my pot for packing. I don't recall if 2" gave a faster boil time, but it wouldn't fit in my pot anyhow. Lower distances definitely reduced flame quality and lengthened boil time. At 1/2", I barely got to a boil with an ounce of fuel. For windscreen, I wrap foil around the "cage" and leave the top and bottom rows of mesh open. My 1.5: pot stand is 6 courses of wire mesh cloth. I'm sure different stoves will produce different results, but it was sure worth testing for me.I do like using 1/2 inch hardware cloth as a separate pot stand from the stove. I feel like it's a safer option since the pot stand doesn't touch the stove...you're not jostling the stove around as you open your pot to stir or check a boil. Also...it seems like with my stove about 3/4 inch from the stove works best.

[hipbone]

If anybody wants to try one of my alcohol stoves and give me some feedback it'll cost you about 5 bucks shipping (PayPal friends and family). You'll get the stove, pot stand, wind screen (big enough for a 900 ml or smaller pot), and vapor barrier.

I've been trying to sell a few to recoup the money I've spent making them for friends but I need a few people to give them a shot and review them. I like making them but I have SO MANY right now that I need to get rid of a few. Also, they're nice, light, efficient stoves and I really would like for them to be used. I have 15 complete sets and probably 50 stoves [emoji16][emoji16]

Also, does $15 bucks plus $5 seems reasonable for a full stove set (stove, pot stand, wind screen, vapor barrier)?

Thanks for any input...

[Recalc]

Hipbone, that is a very reasonable price. I started out with a super cat stove, made a few others, and ended up with a variation of Sargent Rock's Ion stove (which I like). The stove itself was only a part of the puzzle. Tweaking the windscreen, stove height, etc took a lot of time. Knowing what I know now, it would have been so much easier just buying a stove from you or Zelph.

[SteelCut]

Also, does $15 bucks plus $5 seems reasonable for a full stove set (stove, pot stand, wind screen, vapor barrier)?
I'm interested. PM Sent.

[Deadeye]

Hipbone, that is a very reasonable price. I started out with a super cat stove, made a few others, and ended up with a variation of Sargent Rock's Ion stove (which I like). The stove itself was only a part of the puzzle. Tweaking the windscreen, stove height, etc took a lot of time. Knowing what I know now, it would have been so much easier just buying a stove from you or Zelph.

Agreed, very reasonable price. I did a lot of experimenting - it's a hobby unto itself - but eventually wound up with an Evernew Ti stove. Go figure.

[hipbone]

A few people have claimed the $5 stoves. I have asked them to give a little review of it if they get time (no pressure on them).

If anybody else wants to buy one I'll take $15 bucks and $5 shipping for a full set (stove, pot stand, wind screen, vapor barrier).

I have 13 full sets left and about 40 stand alone stoves.

I guess I'll also take $5 for each piece (plus $5 s&h).

Stove only: $10 total
Stove+pot stand: $15 total
Stove+pot stand+windscreen+vapor barrier: $20 total

Really not trying to make money...just selling some to cover the cost to make more hehe...and they're really nice stoves.

[hipbone]

Also, if anyone is on a really tight budget and is just trying to put a kit together so they can get out in the woods, then I'll certainly send you a stove if you just pay shipping...:-)

[Odd Man Out]

For saving on fuel consumption, have you considered snuffing the stove and then recovering excess fuel? This is what I do. It's nice not having to guess how much fuel to load in the stove.

[Reverse]

I have considered this. but how easy is it to find solid fuel along the trail? or do you mail drop it?


Keep your pot support and windscreen and replace the Alc stove with a BGET (1 gram) and use the 4g esbit tabs. That's the lightest setup I know of. Carry exactly the fuel you need.

[Reverse]

also what is a BGET?

[zelph]

also what is a BGET?

Brian Green Esbit Tray

http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/brian-green-esbit-tray.php

[hipbone]

For saving on fuel consumption, have you considered snuffing the stove and then recovering excess fuel? This is what I do. It's nice not having to guess how much fuel to load in the stove.We dehydrate all of our food so our meals are super consistent. I know almost to the gram how much fuel it takes to make one of our meals so I rarely have any fuel left over. I've been using alcohol stoves a REALLY long time hehe

[zelph]

Hipbone, switch to solid fuel if you want to be lighter.

http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/brian-green-esbit-tray.php

[zelph]

A stainless steel Esbit Tray weighs only one gram:

http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/brian-green-esbit-tray.php

[hipbone]

A stainless steel Esbit Tray weighs only one gram:

http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/brian-green-esbit-tray.phpI'm going to play with esbit in the next few days with an old pot to see if I mind the gum up. I'm going to try the tabs suggested in this thread. The only thing is it'll only save me 6 grams and I'm so efficient with alcohol stoves...I have them pretty dialed in. Esbit will be fun to play with. Also my hiking partner and I share a stove so time is wee bit of an issue... anything under 10 minutes for both of our meals are good for us

[hipbone]

I made a video of one of the stoves I am sending out
I used :
about .6 to .7 ml of denatured alcohol (eye-balled it).
2 cups of water straight from the cold tap.
Toaks 550 titanium pot with no handles.
Ambient air temperature was 64 degrees (watch the thermometer go up as the stove heats the water hehe).

Bloom time was 40 seconds
talking time was 4 minutes 30 seconds (turn the sound up really loud)
Full rolling boil was 6 minutes 35 seconds
Flame out was 8 minutes 54 seconds

It's an uncut, 1 take, 10 minute video of water boiling...now that's good entertainment :)

Boil Video (https://photos.app.goo.gl/MhY15Ww1rfzTnvoL2)

[cmoulder]

about .6 to .7 ml of denatured alcohol

Looked like more than that, lol!

(OK, I know you meant oz :))

Even so, it would be more informative to actually measure the fuel in one of those little graduated cups, or to weigh it before/after with a good scale accurate to at least 0.1g, and to take water temp. Also have to be careful with units (fluid volume vs weight) and conversions, keeping in mind that the specific gravity of DA is 0.798

Alcohol stoves are nice in gentle weather. For very cold weather and when melting snow for water, IMO alcohol just isn't the tool for the job. I know some have done it, but that still doesn't mean it's the best choice.

[hipbone]

Looked like more than that, lol!

(OK, I know you meant oz :))

Even so, it would be more informative to actually measure the fuel in one of those little graduated cups, or to weigh it before/after with a good scale accurate to at least 0.1g, and to take water temp. Also have to be careful with units (fluid volume vs weight) and conversions, keeping in mind that the specific gravity of DA is 0.798

Alcohol stoves are nice in gentle weather. For very cold weather and when melting snow for water, IMO alcohol just isn't the tool for the job. I know some have done it, but that still doesn't mean it's the best choice.





Sorry for the typo, .6 to .7 oz...not ml. I made the same typo above. Also, the way I calculate fuel usage is in the thread above and does take the weight of ethanol into account.

Yeah MtnGoat actually had a 30 ml measuring cup that she wanted to use, but I wanted to fill the stove like we do in the woods (I knew with her pouring I'd get a 6 minute boil and a 9 minute flame out so she was pretty dead on). Measure lines are on the fuel bottle so she was really close (she did the measuring in the video). I have a scale that goes to the .01 grams but I'm pretty sure the pour she did was close...she's been pouring alcohol in an alcohol stove for 18 years :-):-)

I have about 2 years of boil times written down for this particular stove model if you want to check it out, but I'd have to put it into a spreadsheet since it's all written in a notebook and that seems like too much work

Lots of people do comment that in certain conditions alcohol stoves aren't the best choice but so far it's been efficient in every condition I've been in. I've used one on the Appalachian trail, the Colorado trail, the Long trail, and one was used on a CDT thru hike in 2017 (congrats to her on finishing her triple crown) and one to Kennedy Meadows on the PCT in 2017 (he got hurt in the Sierra's).

It takes some practice to make alcohol stoves work and become efficient, but once you get it down they really do work in almost all conditions. Shug's last video I saw him boiling water for coffee on the snow in -27 degree weather...I was pretty surprised by that

I will say that we are using a canister stove on the JMT but it's because of open flame restrictions. I am really not tied to any particular stove so if I find something lighter, more efficient, and just as timely I'll use that instead.

I don't want to come across as being confrontational or argumentative in any way, I just have so much experience with this stove that I'm convinced it's a good piece of gear. I am sending 2 more stoves out today or Monday so maybe others will have some input later.

[hipbone]

Looked like more than that, lol!

(OK, I know you meant oz :))

Even so, it would be more informative to actually measure the fuel in one of those little graduated cups, or to weigh it before/after with a good scale accurate to at least 0.1g, and to take water temp. Also have to be careful with units (fluid volume vs weight) and conversions, keeping in mind that the specific gravity of DA is 0.798

Alcohol stoves are nice in gentle weather. For very cold weather and when melting snow for water, IMO alcohol just isn't the tool for the job. I know some have done it, but that still doesn't mean it's the best choice.






also you are absolutely right about melting snow with an alcohol stove, but you'd be more of an expert on snow camping since I don't camp in the white stuff on purpose...I'm definitely a 3 season + shoulder season hiker :)

[cmoulder]

No worries, use what you will and whatever you're willing to carry. :)

I just cannot get past the energy density numbers. DA is about 10-11k btu/lb and butane is about 20-21k.

Personally, I use alcohol most of the time and Esbit when I want to go really light and low volume. Very cold, and especially with snow, I'll go canister every time.

[zelph]

I am really serious about cutting grams out of my pack. I find that a light pack helps me prolong my hiking career by saving my knees and my joints (I am at the age where I will start having problems with my body if I do not take care of it). We are relatively small people so what a normal weight person carries is multiplied greatly when we have to carry it. Also, my hiking partner has had 2 reconstructive knee surgeries and osteoarthritis so cutting weight is CRITICAL to us. We are long distance hikers....

If you can save us weight by suggesting a lighter cooking set up please share. If you can show me the point at which I will save weight by taking a canister stove I will certainly take advice. I am not dedicated to any cook set up, I only need the lightest. I have considered going stoveless also, but meal preparation before the hike is a real enjoyment to us. MtnGoat is a really good cook and we dehydrate all of our meals before we go out...not having a hot home cooked meal every day would take a lot out of our hike. I have also looked into wood stoves but I don't think I would enjoy collecting tinder and sooting up my pot.

thanks in advance for your suggestions!

If you really want the lightest, switch to esbit. Make your pot support to the correct height to prevent soot deposit on bottom of pot. Use the windscreen that you currently use.

That's the way to reduce weight for sure if this thread was your real intent.

If you still want to use alcohol, then I can sell you a Starlyte stove that has integrated stainless steel pot support. It has a "no-spill" feature that is worth it's weight in gold ;-) I'll be making more of the stoves when I return home in the spring if you can wait that long ;-) Alcohol stoves work well in cold weather, just as you have seen Shug use the famous Fancee Feest stove ;-) in his recent video. I can post some of his video for you. The Fancee Feest also has an integrated pot support made of stainless steel. One piece stoves are a blessing as you can imagine. Shaving off some grams is not everything in life. Convenience of a one piece stove is worth a lot. A few grams are not going to be that hard on your/our aging knees ;-)

I can post my Toaks Light Kit specifications if you'd like. I'll have more of those in the spring. They are the ultimate in lightweight Titanium kits.

[JoeVogel]

I have to say that before reading this thread I was not a big supporter of alcohol stoves. I have friends that purchased expensive commercially produced alcoholic stoves and have struggled to make them work really well. With the bottle of fuel they weigh about as much as my BRS and canister. I didn't think that a homemade one would hold up well on long hikes so I never thought it was a viable option.

After this thread I think I am converted to alcoholic stoves. That weight savings that you have laid out hipbone is very appealing. I would love to experiment with making my own.

Would you be willing to share the specific design for the stove that you use? I'm sure with all your experience you have done a lot of troubleshooting to figure out the most efficient construction and weight savings. I am also curious, and i'm sure you have figured out, if the weight savings of using a stove that doesn't require a separate pot support is worth a cut in efficiency?

Thanks so much for creating this thread and I appreciate your detail.

[hipbone]

If you really want the lightest, switch to esbit. Make your pot support to the correct height to prevent soot deposit on bottom of pot. Use the windscreen that you currently use.

That's the way to reduce weight for sure if this thread was your real intent.

If you still want to use alcohol, then I can sell you a Starlyte stove that has integrated stainless steel pot support. It has a "no-spill" feature that is worth it's weight in gold ;-) I'll be making more of the stoves when I return home in the spring if you can wait that long ;-) Alcohol stoves work well in cold weather, just as you have seen Shug use the famous Fancee Feest stove ;-) in his recent video. I can post some of his video for you. The Fancee Feest also has an integrated pot support made of stainless steel. One piece stoves are a blessing as you can imagine. Shaving off some grams is not everything in life. Convenience of a one piece stove is worth a lot. A few grams are not going to be that hard on your/our aging knees ;-)

I can post my Toaks Light Kit specifications if you'd like. I'll have more of those in the spring. They are the ultimate in lightweight Titanium kits.

Oh yeah your stoves are really nice...pretty much the gold standard and I refer to your site a lot when people ask me where to get alcohol stoves :)

I do enjoy making them myself, I like to tinker and it keeps me somewhat busy and occupied...which is why I have like 50 sitting around right now.

I am also looking into esbit soon, that seems like a good step in reducing weight, I might also go stoveless for a few trips in the summer which will REALLY cut my cooking gear weight.

I have been pretty opposed to twig stoves in the past because of sooting my pot up, but I may look into those also. If anybody has weights and boil times on twig stoves I'm listening :)

Referring to one piece stove/pot stand, I do prefer a separate pot stand, I feel that it gives me a little play room when checking my boil or stirring my meal. Since the stove isn't connected to the pot, I do not jostle the stove around when playing with my cook pot. I differ from most people on this...as it seems most people prefer fancee feast or some other 1 piece stove.

And yep dead on about a few grams not being hard on me, that's why I haven't gone to any other method of cooking so far (esbit, twig), I like the efficiency and clean burns of ethanol and I have this stove so dialed in that I feel like I haven't found anything light enough to pull away from its efficiency and ease of use. Efficiency, safety, and ease of use always factor into every piece of gear I take. There are a million ways to hike :)

Apologies also, I might should have posted this in the ultralight forum...it may have been a better fit for the topic.

[zelph]

This is the best way to go for stability, stirring your meal, efficiency, safety and ease of use. It's a pot stand, windscreen all in one. The cone spreads the base support to maximum stability, doesn't get any better than this. I'll be making the kits come spring:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23ASgIxjZws

I really like making stoves also and always have a few hundred laying around. Keeps me out of trouble. Makes winter months more enjoyable.

My goto fuel is wood/twigs. I love the campfire smell on my clothes :D It only takes 2 ounces of wood/twigs to boil 2 cups of water. Choose the right dry hardwood twigs and there is very little soot deposit. Learn the art of wood burning and you'll enjoy the outdoor adventures a lot more. My videos on wood burning are too numerous to list here and there are only a handful of hikers that prefer wood ;)

[hipbone]

I have worked out lots of details on this stove. What would be more helpful, a diagram or a how-to video? I've had several people ask me to make a how-to video on these but I'm not crazy about talking into a camera. I could make a diagram with details but it would leave out a lot on how to make the finish of the stove really nice (details on how to get it to fit together, how I fold the pieces, helpful hints etc). Maybe I'll try to put something together soon.

Also, there are tons of stove designs that are just as efficient as mine and have been used tons of times by other people. I'm sure any of Zelph's stoves are as efficient if not more efficient and probably can weigh less. A Fancee Feast stove has it's own pot stand and I just weighed mine...24 grams, only about 9 grams more than my stove (stove+pot stand) and they are easy to make.

Things I like about my stove (MY being a loose term as it really is a combination of a lot of info I got from the web along with some of my own tweaks):

-I like having a separate pot stand, it gives me wiggle room to move my pot around while not jostling the alcohol stove. Zelph also pointed out that a Caldera cone offers excellent stability, and a few people on this thread have commented that it's what they use and they love it...so that's another really good choice.

-They are STRONG. The way i put them together makes them super durable. All of the pieces fit perfectly together, so the inner all, the outer wall, and the sides of the can butt up against each other and it makes the stove REALLY durable. I have attached a video of me standing on one. I have done this test with the same alcohol stove dozens of times and it still will not collapse. I just made this particular video right after I read your post.

Standing on my alcohol stove (https://photos.app.goo.gl/IiRry2x55G1EeYSO2)

-There is no minimum amount of alcohol that you need to make my stove bloom. We do not boil water and add it to a meal; instead we put water in a home-made dehydrated meal, let it sit for 5 minutes, then heat my meal until the water is just starting to boil. I then add my pot to a pot cozy and let it continue to cook. That whole process takes about .5 oz of fuel (not .5 ml...thanks cmoulder!). I found that with only .5 oz in a fancee feast stove I had a hard time lighting it. .5 oz wasn't enough to wick up to the rim of the can and there wasn't enough fuel left in the reservoir to light either (I'm sure I could have overcome this but I just switched back to the stoves I make because they're a little lighter anyway).

-They are reliable and predictable. I know exactly how long one my stoves will burn and will do so consistently every time (This is probably a moot point because I'm sure any stove you choose will be just as reliable and predictable if you use them as much as I use mine). There are no moving parts with an alcohol stove so there is nothing to break.

There are so many nice stoves out there, the one I use is simply the best for my situation so far :)

[hipbone]

I have to say that before reading this thread I was not a big supporter of alcohol stoves. I have friends that purchased expensive commercially produced alcoholic stoves and have struggled to make them work really well. With the bottle of fuel they weigh about as much as my BRS and canister. I didn't think that a homemade one would hold up well on long hikes so I never thought it was a viable option.

After this thread I think I am converted to alcoholic stoves. That weight savings that you have laid out hipbone is very appealing. I would love to experiment with making my own.

Would you be willing to share the specific design for the stove that you use? I'm sure with all your experience you have done a lot of troubleshooting to figure out the most efficient construction and weight savings. I am also curious, and i'm sure you have figured out, if the weight savings of using a stove that doesn't require a separate pot support is worth a cut in efficiency?

Thanks so much for creating this thread and I appreciate your detail.

Iforgot to quote you in my post above, but it was directed towards your questions...

[zelph]

Aw come on Hipbone, you did a video of stepping on a stove, now do a visual video of how to make one of your stoves or do just photos showing the different steps. We don't need to hear your voice. Start a thread in the DIY forum. You can do it, don't be shy heh heh :-)

I can tell by your posts you are not going to stray away from your stove and go lighter as has been suggested. You've convinced yourself there is no better stove than yours and a few grams ain't gonna change you over to a lighter one.

[D2maine]

*snip*


My goto fuel is wood/twigs. I love the campfire smell on my clothes :D It only takes 2 ounces of wood/twigs to boil 2 cups of water. Choose the right dry hardwood twigs and there is very little soot deposit. Learn the art of wood burning and you'll enjoy the outdoor adventures a lot more. My videos on wood burning are too numerous to list here and there are only a handful of hikers that prefer wood ;)


convince me - i have wanted to play with a wood stove but most of them are either way pricy or bulky or both - what is the setup you prefer?

[hipbone]

Aw come on Hipbone, you did a video of stepping on a stove, now do a visual video of how to make one of your stoves or do just photos showing the different steps. We don't need to hear your voice. Start a thread in the DIY forum. You can do it, don't be shy heh heh :-)

I can tell by your posts you are not going to stray away from your stove and go lighter as has been suggested. You've convinced yourself there is no better stove than yours and a few grams ain't gonna change you over to a lighter one.
I don't know, your "art of fire" post seemed pretty convincing. MtnGoat and I talked about doing a super ultralight trip where we relied on skill more than equipment. The ability to build small fires for cooking would be great on a trip like that and in general is a really good skill to be comfortable with while in the woods. Wood fires would free you a wee bit more from fuel capacity. And...definitely taking esbit on my next hiking trip. I'm interested to see how that would work for both of us. I'm going to buy a cheap aluminum pot until I can figure out how to keep them from gumming up the bottom of my pot.

Also, it is really intimidating to me to make a how-to video and put myself out there, people can be so damn harsh on the internet. I do have 1 how-to video up on my youtube channel (it shows you how to make the pot cozy in the boil video above) but it was REALLY hard for me to make that video. I'll post the link of my pot cozy how-to video so you guys can give me a hard time about it :)

Pot Cozy Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHgzqHreofI)

Also...Thanks Zelph for your input, your stoves are great and I value your input. Thanks to everyone for your input actually, this is a great informational thread

[zelph]

convince me - i have wanted to play with a wood stove but most of them are either way pricy or bulky or both - what is the setup you prefer?

This is my preferred set-up, a DIY made with a 1 quart paint can, a quote from my website:


You can see how big the twigs are and see how I stacked the tinder on top spread around the entire top to be sure I got an even lighting of the entire surface.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove062.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove062.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove061.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove061.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove059.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove059.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove058.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove058.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove057.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove057.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove056.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove056.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove055.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove055.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove054.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove054.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove053.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove053.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove052.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove052.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove051.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove051.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove050.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove050.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove049.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove049.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove048.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove048.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove047.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove047.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove046.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove046.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/th_Pelletstove063.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/pellet%20wood%20stove/?action=view&current=Pelletstove063.jpg)

[zelph]

convince me - i have wanted to play with a wood stove but most of them are either way pricy or bulky or both - what is the setup you prefer?

I recommend the BushcookerLT1 the one in the middle.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkmtkvrhUc0

[TexasBob]

.....Also, it is really intimidating to me to make a how-to video and put myself out there, people can be so damn harsh on the internet. I do have 1 how-to video up on my youtube channel (it shows you how to make the pot cozy in the boil video above) but it was REALLY hard for me to make that video. I'll post the link of my pot cozy how-to video so you guys can give me a hard time about it :).........Pot Cozy Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHgzqHreofI).......

Good video. When you post a youtube video just block people from leaving comments. Making alcohol stoves is like smoking cigarettes, once you start it is hard to quit and it becomes a lifelong addiction. :)

[AllDownhillFromHere]

My only experience with wood stoves is in the Maine woods where everything is damp. Someone fired one up and everyone's clothes stank of woodsmoke for days.

[khysanth]

This is the best way to go for stability, stirring your meal, efficiency, safety and ease of use. It's a pot stand, windscreen all in one. The cone spreads the base support to maximum stability, doesn't get any better than this. I'll be making the kits come spring:


I'd kill for a sidewinder ti-tri for my Toaks 750ml w/ handles :D

[khysanth]

A few people have claimed the $5 stoves. I have asked them to give a little review of it if they get time (no pressure on them).

If anybody else wants to buy one I'll take $15 bucks and $5 shipping for a full set (stove, pot stand, wind screen, vapor barrier).

I have 13 full sets left and about 40 stand alone stoves.

I guess I'll also take $5 for each piece (plus $5 s&h).

Stove only: $10 total
Stove+pot stand: $15 total
Stove+pot stand+windscreen+vapor barrier: $20 total

Really not trying to make money...just selling some to cover the cost to make more hehe...and they're really nice stoves.

I'd make a post on the For Sale forums!

[hipbone]

Heliotrope your inbox is full. I can't send a pm

[JoeVogel]

Iforgot to quote you in my post above, but it was directed towards your questions...

thank you!

[JoeVogel]

My only experience with wood stoves is in the Maine woods where everything is damp. Someone fired one up and everyone's clothes stank of woodsmoke for days.

IMO the woodsmoke smell is a wonderful thing :D

[Heliotrope]

I have been using alcohol stoves for 17 years and I have always found them light and efficient in practically any condition. There has been a lot of info scattered about in different threads and I thought I would start a thread instead of hijacking multiple ones.

My alcohol stove set up:

stove (jetted stove made of small sized soda cans) - 8 grams
pot stand (chicken wire pot stand with every extra gram trimmed off) - 7 grams
windscreen (beer can screens that look damn cool) - 8 grams
heat shield (small piece of folded aluminum foil to protect the ground and reflect back heat) .5 grams
23.5 grams total

my alcohol stove efficiency:

boil time for 2 cups of water - 6 minutes
volume of alcohol needed for 2 cups of water - .6 oz
flame out for .6 oz of alcohol - 9 minutes
weight of 1 oz of alcohol - .78 oz

Weight calculations for X number of days: (number of days * times cooked a day * alcohol needed to boil 2 cups of water * .78 oz) + stove weight + fuel bottle weight

I only cook 1 time per day so the following calculations reflect that. Also, anything less than a 5 day trip I could use a smaller vessel and cut weight, but I will ignore that weight savings for ease of calculations

2 dinner trip (weekend trip):

amount of alcohol needed - 1.2 oz
fuel weight - .936 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight - 1.936 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight+stove kit - 2.936 oz


5 dinner trip (about 75 miles on the AT):

amount of alcohol needed - 3 oz
fuel weight - 2.34 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight - 3.34 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight+stove kit - 4.34 oz (about the weight of an empty canister stove canister)


10 dinner trip (Probably the longest carry you'll ever have to do on the CDT; about 200 miles):

amount of alcohol needed - 6 oz
fuel weight - 4.68 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight - 5.68 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight+stove kit - 6.68 oz


13 dinner trip (the most days I can go without getting a bigger fuel bottle):

amount of alcohol needed - 8 oz
fuel weight - 10.3 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight - 11.3 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight+stove kit - 12.3 oz (about the weight of a full 8 oz MSR fuel canister)


Of course always take a little more alcohol than you'll use in a day (I boil with .5 oz so I calculated with .6 oz). Also keep in mind that every day you cook you will lose a pretty significant amount of fuel weight. The last day of your trip you'll basically be carrying only the weight of the fuel vessel. Also, if your main goal is time savings while cooking, a canister stove will take 1/2 as long to boil water as an alcohol stove (saving you about 3 minutes a day).

I am really serious about cutting grams out of my pack. I find that a light pack helps me prolong my hiking career by saving my knees and my joints (I am at the age where I will start having problems with my body if I do not take care of it). We are relatively small people so what a normal weight person carries is multiplied greatly when we have to carry it. Also, my hiking partner has had 2 reconstructive knee surgeries and osteoarthritis so cutting weight is CRITICAL to us. We are long distance hikers....

If you can save us weight by suggesting a lighter cooking set up please share. If you can show me the point at which I will save weight by taking a canister stove I will certainly take advice. I am not dedicated to any cook set up, I only need the lightest. I have considered going stoveless also, but meal preparation before the hike is a real enjoyment to us. MtnGoat is a really good cook and we dehydrate all of our meals before we go out...not having a hot home cooked meal every day would take a lot out of our hike. I have also looked into wood stoves but I don't think I would enjoy collecting tinder and sooting up my pot.

thanks in advance for your suggestions!

Hello hipbone!

Having issues with pm on whiteblaze. I have an empty mailbox yet it says I’m full. Can you message me at my email address. [email protected]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[D2maine]

IMO the woodsmoke smell is a wonderful thing :D

its way better than hiker funk, and a punky fire keeps the bugs at bay