Finishing up Pennsylvania

[illabelle]

This spring we plan to finish Pennsylvania between Port Clinton and Delaware Water Gap. We will be flying up from Knoxville, then get a shuttle to and from the trail.



What airport makes the most sense?
Any strong reasons to do the trail NOBO or SOBO?
And just to keep it interesting, do we really need to bring a tent?

[GoldenBear]

1. You can get to Delaware Water Gap withOUT a shuttle either from NYC or Philadelphia.
https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/127154-starting-flip-flop-in-DWG?p=2177713&highlight=#post2177713

1. You can ride Bieber Tourways between Reading and either Philadelphia or NYC.
http://www.biebergroup.com/philadelphia
http://www.biebergroup.com/new-york-city
and then take a BARTA bus from Reading to the Cabelas in Hamburg
http://www.bartabus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Route20.pdf
which would not be a bad place to either start or end your hike.

Thus, using either of these two cities would allow you to not use shuttles at all.

You mention "we." I suggest you look at driving between Knoxville & Pennsylvania. I know for a fact that this drive can be done in a day's drive, unless Tennessee is having an eclipse -- just take I-81 the whole way. Even if you have to rent a car one-way, it may be less money than paying for two (or more) plane tickets.

[BobTheBuilder]

I'm doing the same basic section this spring. The Allentown airport (ABE) works for me. Delta flies there and maybe one or two other carriers. You could get a shuttle from Bert's in Palmerton.

[illabelle]

Thanks G Bear for the reply. The non-shuttle options are worth looking into.

Yes, it is two of us. Because of work responsibilities, we can't devote two whole days to drive up there and back. Maryland is our northern limit for driveability. For us, airfare is the price of having fun outdoors. We live pretty frugal lives otherwise.

Looking at a Pennsylvania map, it looks like Philly is the big town of the area, so you're probably right to suggest it. But I'm wondering about Wilkes-Barre/Scranton International Airport. Seems like it's a similar distance from the endpoints of our hike, but without the big town congestion perhaps?

[illabelle]

I'm doing the same basic section this spring. The Allentown airport (ABE) works for me. Delta flies there and maybe one or two other carriers. You could get a shuttle from Bert's in Palmerton.

Ah, that makes sense. I didn't see Allentown on my Penn airport search, but Lehigh Valley was there. I'll contact Bert and see what the shuttle costs.

Maybe we'll cross paths out there! We'll probably do this section the 3rd week of May. Would prefer April if I can rearrange other obligations. Leaning towards SOBO at the moment.

[ldsailor]

I did all but 20 miles of Pennsylvania last year going NOBO. My finish point was Wind Gap. I stayed in Palmerton at Bert's Restaurant and Hostel for a couple of nights. Bob at Bert's gave me a ride down to Lehigh Valley International Airport for a flight home. Since Port Clinton is only 35 miles from the airport, that's your best bet. I flew Allegiant Airlines, which gave me a really good fare. Contact Bob for shuttle rates from the airport. I found his price very reasonable. There are other airlines there, but they will be more expensive.

As I mentioned, I was NOBO. However, Bob shuttled me to Wind Gap for my last day of hiking and I hiked back to Palmerton where he again picked me up at the trail head. Now if you look at your guide, that is a 20 mile hike and I finished at Lehigh Gap in the dark. You do not want to make that same mistake. Check out some pictures of it if you want to know why. The point is - despite the difficulty of going down at the gap - my impression is it would be even more difficult going up. To that end, you may want to consider going SOBO. I'm pretty sure Bob would take you up to Delaware Water Gap but it might be somewhat more expensive. He probably can shuttle you back to the Lehigh Valley International Airport when you reach Port Clinton.

All in all, with the exception of Lehigh Gap, I don't think there is much difference going NOBO or SOBO.

Bert's Restaurant phone number in the 2016 AWOL guide is 610-826-5454

[illabelle]

I did all but 20 miles of Pennsylvania last year going NOBO. My finish point was Wind Gap. I stayed in Palmerton at Bert's Restaurant and Hostel for a couple of nights. Bob at Bert's gave me a ride down to Lehigh Valley International Airport for a flight home. Since Port Clinton is only 35 miles from the airport, that's your best bet. I flew Allegiant Airlines, which gave me a really good fare. Contact Bob for shuttle rates from the airport. I found his price very reasonable. There are other airlines there, but they will be more expensive.

As I mentioned, I was NOBO. However, Bob shuttled me to Wind Gap for my last day of hiking and I hiked back to Palmerton where he again picked me up at the trail head. Now if you look at your guide, that is a 20 mile hike and I finished at Lehigh Gap in the dark. You do not want to make that same mistake. Check out some pictures of it if you want to know why. The point is - despite the difficulty of going down at the gap - my impression is it would be even more difficult going up. To that end, you may want to consider going SOBO. I'm pretty sure Bob would take you up to Delaware Water Gap but it might be somewhat more expensive. He probably can shuttle you back to the Lehigh Valley International Airport when you reach Port Clinton.

All in all, with the exception of Lehigh Gap, I don't think there is much difference going NOBO or SOBO.

Bert's Restaurant phone number in the 2016 AWOL guide is 610-826-5454

Excellent info, ldsailor. Thank you!

[SkeeterPee]

i'd recommend this lady from the at shuttle driver list. She is very flexible. Will make stops for you if you need to buy something get money, meal etc. She is near port Clinton, but covers the whole state and more. I bet she could advise about the airports. Harrisburg could be another airport option.

fyi there is large cabelas about 5 miles from port Clinton if you need fuel or anything else at the last minute.



Joyce A. Carlin
Pine Grove, PA
(570) 345-0474 (tel: 570-345-0474)
(570) 516-3447 (tel: 570-516-3447) (cell)
Commercially insured for your safety. All of PA (MD line to Delaware Water Gap). Please call between 8 am and 10pm unless it is an emergency situation. Pickups earlier than 8 am, please call the night before.

[illabelle]

Thank you, skeeterpee. Always good to have options.

[ldsailor]

Excellent, ldsailor. Thank you!
I forgot to mention that I had a tarp with me, but never used it. I stayed in shelders, motels and a hostel (four nights total for the latter two) exclusively. Be careful if you try the same thing. If you're in a bubble or hike late, you may not be so lucky.

[illabelle]

I forgot to mention that I had a tarp with me, but never used it. I stayed in shelders, motels and a hostel (four nights total for the latter two) exclusively. Be careful if you try the same thing. If you're in a bubble or hike late, you may not be so lucky.

We're happy to take space in a shelter if it's available, but we always carry a tent. We're much too slow to outhike anybody, and I'm hoping April/May will be non-bubbly. However it turns out, we'll just deal with it.

[Gambit McCrae]

I am in the same boat...kinda; Little Gap, PA to Duncannon ...115 miles left.
PA for me is a 10 hours drive non stop. I can:
A- Leave work at 330 and drive until midnight get a hotel and be at the trail about noon the next day for a total of 21-22 hours of driving. Gas cost round trip is $170. with a Friday night hotel $100, but only 1 shuttle at the beginning of the trip
B-I can fly to PA...Looking like a round trip to Allentown for about $400 with a shuttle at beginning and end of trip would get me on the trail by about 9am Saturday, still having a Friday night hotel $100.

I am weighing if the flight is worth saving the 18 hours of driving...I know it will as soon as I am in PA at 9pm Friday night....

[illabelle]

I am in the same boat...kinda; Little Gap, PA to Duncannon ...115 miles left.
PA for me is a 10 hours drive non stop. I can:
A- Leave work at 330 and drive until midnight get a hotel and be at the trail about noon the next day for a total of 21-22 hours of driving. Gas cost round trip is $170. with a Friday night hotel $100, but only 1 shuttle at the beginning of the trip
B-I can fly to PA...Looking like a round trip to Allentown for about $400 with a shuttle at beginning and end of trip would get me on the trail by about 9am Saturday, still having a Friday night hotel $100.

I am weighing if the flight is worth saving the 18 hours of driving...I know it will as soon as I am in PA at 9pm Friday night....

It's just money, right? :)

We try to avoid those motels, not only because of the cost, but also because they're so far removed from nature. Light pollution, noise pollution, people everywhere, commercialism - ugh! Usually we'll take a morning flight up, do whatever is necessary to get to the trail (shuttle/rental, fuel, travel, food, etc), and expect to be camping somewhere in the woods that evening. Leaving the trail is the same in reverse, off the trail in the morning, shuttle to hostel/shower/car/airport, get home late. For more remote locations (most of Maine), I budget a full day of travel on each end.

[ldsailor]

B-I can fly to PA...Looking like a round trip to Allentown for about $400 with a shuttle at beginning and end of trip would get me on the trail by about 9am Saturday, still having a Friday night hotel $100.

I am weighing if the flight is worth saving the 18 hours of driving...I know it will as soon as I am in PA at 9pm Friday night....

If Allegiant is at any airport near you, check them out. They always have good fares if you book way in advance. You won't find them on travel sites like Expedia. You have to go to their web site. You can find out if they serve your area by going to your airport's web site and check out the carriers flying from there.

[dudeijuststarted]

See if you can fly Allegiant to Allentown. I'd recommend finishing in DWG and heading over the border to NJ for a mile or so.

[rocketsocks]

NOBO for a picturesque view at the finish, you’ll see what I mean when ya get there.

[rocketsocks]

...but if logistics dictate SOBO, Palmerston is a great view also.

[illabelle]

ldsailor and dudejuststarted,
I checked Allegiant's website. From Knoxville, most flights go to Florida. There's one to Newark, another to DC. Not too sure they help us much. But yeah, Allegiant has some terrific pricing. :)

[illabelle]

rocketsocks,
We've already done the rest of Pennsylvania and all of New Jersey. I remember the view walking south from NJ to DWG. Despite the rocky reputation, I'll always remember Pennsylvania as picturesque. Springtime is nice because it's all green, and the water sources haven't dried up yet.

I think we'll try to use Palmerton as a resupply/shower/laundry stop. Need to spend some time analyzing my AT Guide to see which direction works best. We'd like a half-day hike on the first day, reasonable daily mileage, and good campsites with water.

I'm wondering about Lehigh Gap. I've heard it's an awful climb out of there. In my experience, awful climbs aren't much fun going down either. Maybe we'll do this in two pieces, Port Clinton to Palmerton, DWG to Palmerton. Then we don't have to climb up either way. We're so lazy. :(

[Durunner]

Personally, I think down would be harder and tough if any fear of heights. My first backpacking trip ever was Lehigh Gap to DWG. I wondered if I could even pull myself up the rocks with a pack, but actually it wasn't as bad as expected. There are so many rocks, but at least that area is a lot of ridge walking. I am local, so used to the rocks though. ABE is 35 minutes from Port Clinton and probably an hour or a little more to DWG. DWG is awesome, but most of Lehigh Gap to DWG is boring, except at those points of course. Port Clinton to Lehigh Gap has, Pulpit Rock, The Pinnacle, Bear Rocks, Knife's Edge and Bake Oven Knob. More good views through that part.

[Durunner]

Also, this is actually the worst section of rocks. South of Port Clinton isn't as bad as north.

[illabelle]

Thank you for the local perspective, Durunner. It's that kind of information that really helps in making a decision. :)

[Gambit McCrae]

Also, this is actually the worst section of rocks. South of Port Clinton isn't as bad as north.

Last couple days I have been trying to narrow down where the actual "worst rocks" are in PA. I know that Pen Mar to Duncannon there was not A rock on the trail, and was actually one of my most favorite sections so far. From DWG south to Little Gap, PA there were plenty of rocks, and I remember the everlasting reputation of the state finally lived up to its name. So I am wondering from Duncannon, to Little Gap (5 miles north of Palmerton) Where are the rough spots at. I don't really NEED to know, or care where they are at, more for day dreaming needs then anything, it'll all get walked one step at a time :) lol

[ldsailor]

Last couple days I have been trying to narrow down where the actual "worst rocks" are in PA. I know that Pen Mar to Duncannon there was not A rock on the trail, and was actually one of my most favorite sections so far. From DWG south to Little Gap, PA there were plenty of rocks, and I remember the everlasting reputation of the state finally lived up to its name. So I am wondering from Duncannon, to Little Gap (5 miles north of Palmerton) Where are the rough spots at. I don't really NEED to know, or care where they are at, more for day dreaming needs then anything, it'll all get walked one step at a time :) lol
IMO there are two spots in PA that will forever be burned into my memory. The worst is Lehigh Gap and close behind it is the Knifes Edge. Other hikers say the White Mountains are much much worse. I guess I'll find out later this year when I continue my LASH NOBO.

[Gambit McCrae]

IMO there are two spots in PA that will forever be burned into my memory. The worst is Lehigh Gap and close behind it is the Knifes Edge. Other hikers say the White Mountains are much much worse. I guess I'll find out later this year when I continue my LASH NOBO.

Knife Edge nobo or sobo of Lehigh?

[Falls Down Goes Boom]

NOBO for a picturesque view at the finish, you’ll see what I mean when ya get there.

That would be my vote as well. It's cool climbing out of Lehigh Gap and coming down into DWG is awesome after days of stumbling over rocks. Of course, New Jersey near DWG has plenty of its own rocks...

[illabelle]

After looking through various scenarios, I'm leaning towards flying to Allentown, shuttle to Palmerton, hike SOBO to Port Clinton, shuttle back to Palmerton, hike NOBO to DWG, shuttle to airport. This way we get to climb out of Lehigh Gap twice! Fun, fun. :banana

I worked out a detailed plan that gives us water and a shelter or established campsite almost every night. There's at least one night where we'll have to improvise.

We've already completed 80% of Maine and the Whites from Pinkham to Franconia, so nothing scares us anymore. A pile of rocks is just a pile of rocks. Slow down and plod along. With a smile of course. So far the worst thing about Pennsylvania was when we tried to sleep at the Backpacker's Campsite (near Boiling Springs, I think), where the TRAIN ROARED AND SCREAMED ALL NIGHT. No pile of rocks can erase that memory. :(

[Angle]

Knife Edge nobo or sobo of Lehigh?

Knife Edge is south of Lehigh Gap. The other rocky sections that you will have is the Bake Oven Knob area, Dan's Pulpit area, just north of the 501 shelter, and last year I heard a lot of hikers complaining of a section north of Swatara Gap. If you thought there weren't any rocks south of Duncannon maybe you won't even notice this spots either.

Illabelle I would recommend doing the section northbound, not only for the view into DWG but much easier to climb up out of Lehigh Gap. Harrisburg (MDT) airport is much easier to get in and out of then Philly and is the same distance from those trailheads, but Allentown would be the best.

[Angle]

I'm to slow at typing. Looks like you have a great plan.

[Malto]

Last couple days I have been trying to narrow down where the actual "worst rocks" are in PA. I know that Pen Mar to Duncannon there was not A rock on the trail, and was actually one of my most favorite sections so far. From DWG south to Little Gap, PA there were plenty of rocks, and I remember the everlasting reputation of the state finally lived up to its name. So I am wondering from Duncannon, to Little Gap (5 miles north of Palmerton) Where are the rough spots at. I don't really NEED to know, or care where they are at, more for day dreaming needs then anything, it'll all get walked one step at a time :) lol
You have the worst of the rock over with. The area around Lehigh will be the only section that is even noteworthy.

[Durunner]

I think it is funny how what you know has such an impact. My first backpacking trip was here. It is my home turf, so section hikers were complaining, while it didn't bother me. I used to trail run on these rocks. Talk about hard. Meanwhile, when I go south, I hate switchbacks. Up here some climbs can be hard, but at least they are over quicker, as we head straight up the mountain. Down south, I find switchbacks seem to never end. It bothers me mentally.

[illabelle]

I think it is funny how what you know has such an impact. My first backpacking trip was here. It is my home turf, so section hikers were complaining, while it didn't bother me. I used to trail run on these rocks. Talk about hard. Meanwhile, when I go south, I hate switchbacks. Up here some climbs can be hard, but at least they are over quicker, as we head straight up the mountain. Down south, I find switchbacks seem to never end. It bothers me mentally.
You're so right. I love switchbacks! :D

[Gambit McCrae]

You have the worst of the rock over with. The area around Lehigh will be the only section that is even noteworthy.

If that is the case then Rocksylvania is a big crock of.....

[illabelle]

If that is the case then Rocksylvania is a big crock of.....

What I've heard is that the name comes from the annoying nature of Pennsylvania rocks. After a thousand miles of mountains and valleys, finally an elevation profile that suggests roller skates! Wheeeee! But the reality is disappointment and aggravation. And maybe a stubbed toe.

[windlion]

NOBO for a picturesque view at the finish, you’ll see what I mean when ya get there.Agreed. Also Martz bus if you can't shuttle for some reason. Suggest avoiding PHL unless you have your gut set on a cheese steak fix in Philly.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

[windlion]

rocketsocks,
We've already done the rest of Pennsylvania and all of New Jersey. I remember the view walking south from NJ to DWG. Despite the rocky reputation, I'll always remember Pennsylvania as picturesque. Springtime is nice because it's all green, and the water sources haven't dried up yet.

I think we'll try to use Palmerton as a resupply/shower/laundry stop. Need to spend some time analyzing my AT Guide to see which direction works best. We'd like a half-day hike on the first day, reasonable daily mileage, and good campsites with water.

I'm wondering about Lehigh Gap. I've heard it's an awful climb out of there. In my experience, awful climbs aren't much fun going down either. Maybe we'll do this in two pieces, Port Clinton to Palmerton, DWG to Palmerton. Then we don't have to climb up either way. We're so lazy. :(Personal preference, but climbing out of Lehigh Gap with a full pack did not seem that difficult. Descending in wet conditions would be more ... interesting.

Agreeing that LG and DWG are great views. Caution advised on water sources, this part of the trail borders a Superfund site and other heavily mined areas. Locals say it is not a problem any more, but filtering does not remove zinc.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

[illabelle]

Personal preference, but climbing out of Lehigh Gap with a full pack did not seem that difficult. Descending in wet conditions would be more ... interesting.

Agreeing that LG and DWG are great views. Caution advised on water sources, this part of the trail borders a Superfund site and other heavily mined areas. Locals say it is not a problem any more, but filtering does not remove zinc.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

I posted a plan update a few posts back. Current plan is to hike SOBO from Palmerton to Port Clinton, then NOBO from Palmerton to DWG. I hear you on the wet rock descent. I like adventures. I also like my skin, bones, and joints!

We carry a 1-pound First Need purifier. Zinc isn't specifically mentioned, but we'll try to drink a little less through that area.
Website says:


Purifier is certified to EPA Guide Standard for microbiological purifiers against bacteria, cysts and viruses; removes giardia and cryptosporidia
Also removes dirt, unpleasant tastes and chemicals such as pesticides and herbicides

[Malto]

If that is the case then Rocksylvania is a big crock of.....
Yup........

[windlion]

I posted a plan update a few posts back. Current plan is to hike SOBO from Palmerton to Port Clinton, then NOBO from Palmerton to DWG. I hear you on the wet rock descent. I like adventures. I also like my skin, bones, and joints!

We carry a 1-pound First Need purifier. Zinc isn't specifically mentioned, but we'll try to drink a little less through that area.
Website says:


Purifier is certified to EPA Guide Standard for microbiological purifiers against bacteria, cysts and viruses; removes giardia and cryptosporidia
Also removes dirt, unpleasant tastes and chemicals such as pesticides and herbicides
Not for metallic salts. Even boiling, no use. There are also some high acid creeks, with warnings posted. Along the way, you can check out the dam/water treatment structure they are using to protect a trout stream.

As mentioned, some locals I spoke to just shrugged it off. Probably okay for short term use. Probably.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

[Zed]

... I heard a lot of hikers complaining of a section north of Swatara Gap.

That section north of Swarta Gap wouldn't be bad, except that several miles of trail was overgrown with poison ivy and devil's tail vine. It's hard to avoid rocks when you can't see them!

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[illabelle]

That section north of Swarta Gap wouldn't be bad, except that several miles of trail was overgrown with poison ivy and devil's tail vine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persicaria_perfoliata). It's hard to avoid rocks when you can't see them!
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Never heard of devil's tail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persicaria_perfoliata)before. Learned something new.

[Gambit McCrae]

Never heard of devil's tail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persicaria_perfoliata)before. Learned something new.

It is native to most of temperate and tropical eastern Asia, from eastern Russia in the north down to the Philippines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines) and India (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India) in the south.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persicaria_perfoliata#cite_note-5)[6]
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persicaria_perfoliata#cite_note-s-6)

Does this make the Devils Tail an invasive species to the US?

[illabelle]

It is native to most of temperate and tropical eastern Asia, from eastern Russia in the north down to the Philippines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines) and India (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India) in the south.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persicaria_perfoliata#cite_note-5)[6]
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persicaria_perfoliata#cite_note-s-6)

Does this make the Devils Tail an invasive species to the US?


Yep.
Per wikipedia:


The first records of Persicaria perfoliata in North America are from Portland, Oregon (1890) and Beltsville, Maryland (1937). Both of these sites were eliminated or did not establish permanent populations of the species. However, the introduction of P. perfoliata somewhere between the late 1930s and 1946 to a nursery site in Stewartstown (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stewartstown,_Pennsylvania), York County (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_County,_Pennsylvania),[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persicaria_perfoliata#cite_note-7) Pennsylvania produced a population of this plant that did become established in the wild. It is speculated that the seed was spread with Rhododendron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhododendron) stock. The owner of the nursery was interested in the plant and allowed it to reproduce; subsequent efforts to eradicate it were not successful. The distribution of P. perfoliata has radiated from the York County site into neighboring states. Fifty-five years after its introduction, the range for this plant in the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) had extended as far as 300 miles (480 km) in several directions from the York County, Pennsylvania (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_County,_Pennsylvania) site.

[illabelle]

I need some education about hiking eastern PA in snow.

A few years back we hiked PenMar to Duncannon in mid-April. Pleasant weather and temperatures. Then a couple years ago we went from Duncannon to Port Clinton, again in mid-April. Still very nice out, although there was a lot of water on the trail from snowmelt.

So now this year we're supposed to hike from Port C to DWG. Had a conflict with mid-April, but figured late March/early April would be okay. We arrive in Allentown next Wednesday. But with one snowstorm after another, I imagine the trail is nowhere close to clear.

Other than OR gaiters and warm clothes, we have zero gear for snow and ice, and only minimal experience. We hiked from Buena Vista VA to the Tye River last weekend. Patchy snow, knee-deep drifts here and there. Would have fallen a thousand times without our trekking poles.

ATweather.com showing 20's to 40's so far with a chance of snow or rain about every other day. Intellicast.com showing current snow cover in eastern PA to be 12-18 inches (I don't trust their accuracy cuz they also show snow coverage here in Knoxville, but there's none left from the dusting we got yesterday).

Maybe it will all melt before we get there, and the birds will sing, and the flowers will bloom.
Or maybe Lehigh Gap will be an impassable ice chute.
Your thoughts and advice?

[Gambit McCrae]

WB's own Bloomer posted this morning he has 12" of snow in southern PA. If it were me I would wait Illabelle, till late April Early May for a much better experience. I know this may be difficult with plane tickets etc but just my opinion. PA is hard enough with all those pesky rocks, put a 12" blanket of snow on top of them and I just don't think I would be a fan of that. Wish yall the best

[Water Rat]

I need some education about hiking eastern PA in snow.

A few years back we hiked PenMar to Duncannon in mid-April. Pleasant weather and temperatures. Then a couple years ago we went from Duncannon to Port Clinton, again in mid-April. Still very nice out, although there was a lot of water on the trail from snowmelt.

So now this year we're supposed to hike from Port C to DWG. Had a conflict with mid-April, but figured late March/early April would be okay. We arrive in Allentown next Wednesday. But with one snowstorm after another, I imagine the trail is nowhere close to clear.

Other than OR gaiters and warm clothes, we have zero gear for snow and ice, and only minimal experience. We hiked from Buena Vista VA to the Tye River last weekend. Patchy snow, knee-deep drifts here and there. Would have fallen a thousand times without our trekking poles.

ATweather.com showing 20's to 40's so far with a chance of snow or rain about every other day. Intellicast.com showing current snow cover in eastern PA to be 12-18 inches (I don't trust their accuracy cuz they also show snow coverage here in Knoxville, but there's none left from the dusting we got yesterday).

Maybe it will all melt before we get there, and the birds will sing, and the flowers will bloom.
Or maybe Lehigh Gap will be an impassable ice chute.
Your thoughts and advice?

You might try contacting one of the local AT clubs in Pennsylvania. The local clubs might have specific trail info. The snow last week nailed some parts of Pennsylvania, skipped some places, etc. Each of the March storms seems to have said "hi" to Pennsylvania, though the amounts left behind have been extremely different (depending on location...even a few miles away).

[Slo-go'en]

The trail will be treacherous. It will be hard to see where the rocks are and in that section you need to stay on top of the rocks. The rocks are randomly spaced and keep you up to 12" off the ground. The rocks are spaced so it's easy to get your feet trapped between them. You can't walk in a straight line, you need to keep staggering left and right like a drunk. I was SO happy to be done with that section so I could walk normally again.

I would strongly suggest you delay the trip or risk a sprained ankle or worse.

There is a winter trail out of Lehigh gap so you don't have to do the rock climb.

[illabelle]

WB's own Bloomer posted this morning he has 12" of snow in southern PA. If it were me I would wait Illabelle, till late April Early May for a much better experience. I know this may be difficult with plane tickets etc but just my opinion. PA is hard enough with all those pesky rocks, put a 12" blanket of snow on top of them and I just don't think I would be a fan of that. Wish yall the best

Not what I wanted to hear. :(
I saw your post in the Roan Mtn thread about heading up there in a few weeks. Wish we could reschedule. Ugh. I guess we'll have a talk about it tonight.

[Gambit McCrae]

Not what I wanted to hear. :(
I saw your post in the Roan Mtn thread about heading up there in a few weeks. Wish we could reschedule. Ugh. I guess we'll have a talk about it tonight.

Better to know now then later...Better safe then Sorry...Lots of little saying for being smart on the front end of trip planning. I chose to deal with the danger of heat then I do the danger of snow.

I wont be in PA till June 29th at 10:30PM :)

My first AT trip of this year will be Easter, in some low altitude TN terrain. Then its wide open all the way to springer on weekends until PA in July, and 2 weeks in Mass/ Vermont first of September.

[Angle]

My guess is that most of the snow will be gone by next Thursday. Here in Lancaster we had 12" and it is melting quite nicely today. Your first area of concern would be the Bake Oven Knob area and that would probably be on day 3 of your hike. The good thing is the elevation is only around 1,250' and there are a lot of road crossings if you need to bail. PM me if I can help you in any way. Iceman

[LittleRock]

I am in the same boat...kinda; Little Gap, PA to Duncannon ...115 miles left.
PA for me is a 10 hours drive non stop. I can:
A- Leave work at 330 and drive until midnight get a hotel and be at the trail about noon the next day for a total of 21-22 hours of driving. Gas cost round trip is $170. with a Friday night hotel $100, but only 1 shuttle at the beginning of the trip
B-I can fly to PA...Looking like a round trip to Allentown for about $400 with a shuttle at beginning and end of trip would get me on the trail by about 9am Saturday, still having a Friday night hotel $100.
I am weighing if the flight is worth saving the 18 hours of driving...I know it will as soon as I am in PA at 9pm Friday night....


It's just money, right? :)

We try to avoid those motels, not only because of the cost, but also because they're so far removed from nature. Light pollution, noise pollution, people everywhere, commercialism - ugh! Usually we'll take a morning flight up, do whatever is necessary to get to the trail (shuttle/rental, fuel, travel, food, etc), and expect to be camping somewhere in the woods that evening. Leaving the trail is the same in reverse, off the trail in the morning, shuttle to hostel/shower/car/airport, get home late. For more remote locations (most of Maine), I budget a full day of travel on each end.
This is something I've also had to start thinking about more lately. Springer was about 8 hours from my house, then it got shorter for a while through NC/TN and even into VA, down to about 3 hours to get to Roanoke. But now the driving distances are getting longer again.

I'll probably be OK driving up through PA. After that, I'll probably end up dropping from 2 one-week trips per year to 1 two-week trip. Which is really only 10-12 days since I'll have to spend 1.5-2 days driving each way. But I'd rather do that than switch to another form of transportation. Having to book plane tickets and shuttle to AND from the trailhead just seems like too much. And if one link in the transportation chain gets screwed up, it can throw off the whole trip.

[Gambit McCrae]

This is something I've also had to start thinking about more lately. Springer was about 8 hours from my house, then it got shorter for a while through NC/TN and even into VA, down to about 3 hours to get to Roanoke. But now the driving distances are getting longer again.

I'll probably be OK driving up through PA. After that, I'll probably end up dropping from 2 one-week trips per year to 1 two-week trip. Which is really only 10-12 days since I'll have to spend 1.5-2 days driving each way. But I'd rather do that than switch to another form of transportation. Having to book plane tickets and shuttle to AND from the trailhead just seems like too much. And if one link in the transportation chain gets screwed up, it can throw off the whole trip.

I did my first 2 week trip this last October. We were able to use that entire time to our advantage by flying. we were on the trail the first Saturday of the trip, and stayed on the trail for 16 days until the last Sunday at noon. We were home at 8:30 that night back in Tennessee. I have done it both ways for a total of 54 trips, and when I get over about 7-8 hours of driving, ill just fly.

[DrL]

I can also confirm that we got ~12 inches not too far from Port Clinton. It's 46F now and the snow is melting fast. It's quite slippery in the shade.
I'm planning on a day hike tomorrow and will report on trail conditions. Suspect slush, puddles, and some icy patches.

[Slo-go'en]

The real question is what will the weather be like next week? We're close enough to guess. The AT weather app shows high of 54, low 38 for next Wednesday and a little warmer for Thursday. Is the worst over? But there will be a lot of freeze/thaws going on in the days previous. With all the recent snow there, that's a good recipe for lots of ice. Better bring spikes.

[Mugthumper]

The real question is what will the weather be like next week? We're close enough to guess. The AT weather app shows high of 54, low 38 for next Wednesday and a little warmer for Thursday. Is the worst over? But there will be a lot of freeze/thaws going on in the days previous. With all the recent snow there, that's a good recipe for lots of ice. Better bring spikes.

Thanks Slo-go'en, I never knew this app existed. Talk about convenience. No more texting my wife and having her send me forecasts.

[QuietStorm]

I hiked Pennsylvania through the winter last year. Had both snow and ice, particularly in Eastern Pennsylvania. Lehigh Gap was clear, however, and I wouldn’t recommend climbing it if there’s ice. The photo is of Wolf Rocks last March. I did use microspikes quite a bit. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180322/ca0b23a4243204c0ed338c27f22d0480.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Red Laces]

saw some of the posts for this thread, late May I'm flying into Allentown, Uber is $40ish to Port Clinton from there. Plan to hike up to Bear Mtn from PC

[DrL]

Trail condition near Port Clinton was variable. But it was also beautiful.

The high traffic areas were icy. Footprints, pawprints, skitracks all turned to ice. These were starting to melt later in the morning but were slippery in the early am.

The low traffic and shady sections were covered with a few inches of the heavy wet stuff. My trail runners got wet quickly. Bring extra socks if you go.

The climb up the hill south of Port Clinton was fun. Gald I brought the snowshoes and poles.
Some photos:

Rail trail from Hamburg to Port Clinton
42345

Climb south out of Port Clinton. There are rocks under there. Somewhere.
42346

Top of the hill at the junction with the pipeline trail
42347

[illabelle]

After considering advice given above and elsewhere, the most recent weather forecast, and the cost to change plane tickets, we've decided to go for it. On our way to Pennsylvania! Thanks to everyone for your input! :)

Temperatures have moderated sufficiently that any lingering snow will be manageable - we hope. We'll cover 76 miles in 8 days, so no overly ambitious daily mileage goals.

Will post a trip report when we return.

[Durunner]

Nice. Have fun. I have to do Port Clinton to Lehigh Gap yet. Next time I get three days off maybe. I have been out twice in the last month. Not many overnighters yet and this lingering cold will still keep most away, even on weekends. We had close to a foot of snow with that last storm and it is basically gone now. I imagine you will encounter snow, but don't think it will be too bad. Probably some of what I had from Duncannon to Swatara Gap at the end of February. A couple of inches that slowed me down and made hiking hard, but still managed 15 miles a day.

[Gambit McCrae]

After considering advice given above and elsewhere, the most recent weather forecast, and the cost to change plane tickets, we've decided to go for it. On our way to Pennsylvania! Thanks to everyone for your input! :)

Temperatures have moderated sufficiently that any lingering snow will be manageable - we hope. We'll cover 76 miles in 8 days, so no overly ambitious daily mileage goals.

Will post a trip report when we return.

Have a great trip!

[NJdreamer]

Two of us did slightly further north 2 weeks ago, just after the last storm. I had microspikes but never used them. If I had used them, I would have been putting them on and then off, all day long for 2 days. IMO, the snow and ice will be gone by next week. Also, I did part of the DWG section (8 miles) just after a big snow fall. The snow made the trail easier, as I did not have to worry as much about rocks. The snow significantly covered them so they mattered less. Have fun.

[illabelle]

Two of us did slightly further north 2 weeks ago, just after the last storm. I had microspikes but never used them. If I had used them, I would have been putting them on and then off, all day long for 2 days. IMO, the snow and ice will be gone by next week. Also, I did part of the DWG section (8 miles) just after a big snow fall. The snow made the trail easier, as I did not have to worry as much about rocks. The snow significantly covered them so they mattered less. Have fun.
We wondered if the snow might actually help. Thanks for confirming that. We'll hit the trail Thursday morning, so I guess we'll find out for ourselves. :)